OT: Need more wattz, yo

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OT: Need more wattz, yo Alejandro 11/13/12 9:31 AM
Hello Hivemind,

Here's the sitch: I'd like to actually start working on a) increasing power and b) sustaining said power. I know they can be two completely different workouts and, rather than look up what a bunch of anonymous cyclists think on the interwebs, I'd like to solicite the thoughts and opinions of people I actually know and ride (and get dropped by) with. 

Base miles are cool and I typically don't have a problem with those (modulo laziness - easy fix), and I have Wolfpack Hustle every Monday, which, I've been told, is kinda like interval workouts. 

What else should I be doing? Hill intervals? Polo field lap intervals (how?) Go chase Brooks and Bret around the sunset/richmond? 

Random numbers:

Looking over my Strava numbers (note: I do not have a power meter so these are all based on Strava wizardry) it seems that any climb much more than ~5 minutes, my average power sits around 240-260w. On very rare occasions I can keep it above 300w for 5-6min while climbing (read: feels like I'm going to puke). Is this just one of those: "Do more of those efforts until they are the norm, rather than the exception" things? Simple? 

TL;DR is it a simple case of 'ride more' or do you, Hivemind, have smarter solutions that have worked well for you that I may be overlooking? 

Thanks and sorry for wall-of-text. 

--
Alejandro Villarreal | Program Manager | aleja...@google.com | 408-421-5158


Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo TedK 11/13/12 9:46 AM

Intervals.

Also, you're dead to me, roadie scum ;-)

Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Judd 11/13/12 10:09 AM
Step 1 is get a real power meter. If you're going to be doing power-based training, you need instant feedback during the workout (this is not to mention that Strava's estimates aren't really worth your time). 

Step 2 is deciding how serious you want to get and what your goals are (or maybe this is step 1? I did this and decided I'd rather spend the money a power meter costs on booze and learn to enjoy being slow) - there's tons of literature and software like Training Peaks and Golden Cheetah to help with your workouts, and a coach is an unsurprisingly amazing resource. 

There's no real panacea workout to increasing peak and sustained power (which basically translates to "i want to be faster") - you'll be wanting a training plan of a variety of different workouts which may or may not be compatible with SF2G and may or may not suck all the fun out of riding. Talking to a coach or reading the cyclists training bible wouldn't be bad ways to start.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Andrew Valko 11/13/12 10:17 AM
+1  to intervals. It will be difficult to base your efforts on Strava's power calculation, though. You could do intervals on the polo fields or on small/shortish hills using heart rate or perceived exertion, but that's far from an exact science. If you'd like to give a PF interval workout a shot one of these mornings, let me know.

I hate recommending indoor/stationary cycling, but many people (myself included) have circumvented the "intervals without a power meter" problem with good success by spinning at a power-based studio like M2 once or twice a week.



On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Ted Ketai <tke...@gmail.com> wrote:

Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Ali Raizin 11/13/12 10:29 AM
Another option: if you pickup a speed/cadence meter, an ANT+ dongle for your computer and a trainer, Trainer Road provides a decent approximation of a power-based studio workout. Their power calculations are the best I've found without dropping the money on a power meter and their workouts can help you target more watts.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Johan Beisser 11/13/12 10:50 AM
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Ted Ketai <tke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Intervals.

Intervals are key for building up more endurance. There's a ton of
literature out there on how to use them. Just remember "rest" periods
are still work, just less effort.

> Also, you're dead to me, roadie scum ;-)

Harsh.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Patrick Kitto 11/13/12 10:56 AM
yes while power meters are rad and allow all kinds of science like bike dorkery, you can get faster without one.

I have done all my workouts to date by perceived exertion, with a HRM to glace at every now and then. I have worked with some coaches, and at times said 'fuck-it, i just wanna ride my bike' and have managed to upgrade a full category in cross over the passed 4 years. My first cross season in 2008 I raced open Bs on my SS and finished mid-upper pack. Last weekend in Open As on my SS I finished mid-pack.

Coaches are awesome and will get super specific, but it all comes down to time on the bike. Riding with faster people is good because it hurts like hell and will be a good combo of long efforts trying to hold the wheel and short intervals if/when you hit the wind. Survival mode on climbs is great because it is what the coaches cal SFR (slow frequency revolutions - as big a gear as you can turn at 30-60 rpm) which is bike-specific strength training. 

And 20 min intervals are the bread and butter of sustained power (threshold) workouts.

Good Luck.

-PK

ps: it is a shame no one has brought in Greg's quote yet: “it doesn't hurt any less, you just go faster” 
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Carlin Eng 11/13/12 11:11 AM
3 tiny letters: E. P. O.

Seriously though, Strava power estimates probably aren't worth much. I've never put much thought into increasing my own max power or sustained power, but I'd guess that intervals and strength exercises like weightlifting or cross-fit are where it's at.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Peter Chang 11/13/12 11:25 AM
2012/11/13 Patrick Kitto <patric...@gmail.com>:
> And 20 min intervals are the bread and butter of sustained power (threshold)
> workouts.
...
> ps: it is a shame no one has brought in Greg's quote yet: “it doesn't hurt
> any less, you just go faster”

to circle around to judd's point, you have to pick between HTFU and
'training is wanking'.

\p
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Alejandro 11/13/12 11:38 AM
This is all great, everyone. Looks like I'll be aiming to get in some interval work during weeknights. Polofields or find some hills (presidio maybe). 

Re: Strava power numbers. I know they aren't accurate, I was using them more as a comparison relative to themselves to give an idea of what I was trying to achieve. Case in point: on a ride with Brooks and Bret, I was pulling along this segment: http://app.strava.com/activities/26103609#z3213|3260 with Brooks on my wheel. As I pulled off he quipped that he was doing 280w in my draft (he has a PM). Strava says 195. I don't remember it being all that headwindy, but I may be mistaken. /shrug




Definitely not looking for it to hurt less. I think I'll just take the HTFU approach.  

\p



--
Alejandro Villarreal | Program Manager | aleja...@google.com | 408-421-5158


Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Eric A 11/13/12 11:39 AM



Talk to Lina.  She went to the Dark Side.

 

\p



--
Alejandro Villarreal | Program Manager | aleja...@google.com | 408-421-5158



Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Peter Chang 11/13/12 11:46 AM
2012/11/13 Alejandro Villarreal <aleja...@google.com>:
> Re: Strava power numbers. I know they aren't accurate, I was using them more
> as a comparison relative to themselves to give an idea of what I was trying
> to achieve. Case in point: on a ride with Brooks and Bret, I was pulling
> along this segment: http://app.strava.com/activities/26103609#z3213|3260
> with Brooks on my wheel. As I pulled off he quipped that he was doing 280w
> in my draft (he has a PM). Strava says 195.

the estimate has to go off of some of the numbers you've given
strava/garmin too; your weight, heart rate ranges, etc. hence the
clydesdale kom on some loop htat carlin found (someone incorrectly
converted 150lb to 150kg). i fixed that to avoid poaching from people
who actually look at the rankings :-)

\p
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo thorpej 11/13/12 12:36 PM

On Nov 13, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Judd Blair <judd...@gmail.com> wrote:

Step 1 is get a real power meter. If you're going to be doing power-based training, you need instant feedback during the workout (this is not to mention that Strava's estimates aren't really worth your time). 

On the issue of Strava estimates... djconnel did a write-up about them... assuming no wind and an accurate weight provided to Strava, they seem to be close-ish on climbs, but they're way off (under, in my experience) on flats.

Case in point:

My PR time on Polo Fields lap:

    http://app.strava.com/rides/8514312#156239853  (no power meter, estimated power 330W)

My fastest Polo Fields lap on my trip out Monday morning

    http://app.strava.com/activities/27615507#495699980  (with power meter, measured average 450W, which is what I was trying to hold for the lap)

Yah, ok, so I've put on a little weight in the intervening time, but not THAT much...

-- thorpej

Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo thorpej 11/13/12 12:50 PM

On Nov 13, 2012, at 10:16 AM, Andrew Valko <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1  to intervals. It will be difficult to base your efforts on Strava's power calculation, though. You could do intervals on the polo fields or on small/shortish hills using heart rate or perceived exertion, but that's far from an exact science. If you'd like to give a PF interval workout a shot one of these mornings, let me know.

Yah, ditto... I often go out there on Monday mornings at stupid-o'clock as a quick way to get in 20-25 miles.

PF is remarkably convenient ... the 0.8 mile lap is a handy interval metric, and the back-side (Middle Dr. side) bleachers are a good marker for max-effort-out-of-saddle sprints.  Plus, uninterrupted pedaling!

Also, 10th Ave (heading south from Judah, all the way to the tippy-top) is great for repeats... 500 ft in 1 mile, including a block of 17% at the end (make sure to make the right turn and go ALL THE WAY to the end once you get to the top if you want Strava credit :-)

-- thorpej

Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Lina Martensson 11/13/12 12:50 PM
I'll keep this short...

First off, what's your goal? How much effort (and I'm not talking in terms of watts) are you willing to put in?

If you're serious about getting faster I'd suggest getting a coach, or read "The cyclist's training bible" by Joe Friel. A good follow up would be "Training and racing with a power meter" by some other dudes.

A group ride is not a substitute for intervals.

By getting a coach and being really anal about my training I got a lot faster, but I also did almost 40 races in one year that provided good motivation for all that training.

A power meter is a great tool for training, but there's a lot to it that you can do with perceived rate of exertion or with heart rate. Start by reading the training bible and then decide if this is what you want to do, or if you just want to dick around on your bike and have fun.

-Lina
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Eric A 11/13/12 12:52 PM
This should be expected.  On a climb, the majority of your power goes in to potential energy, which is easily and accurately measured based on your weight and the elevation.  On a flat, the majority of your power goes in to moving air around, which is incredibly difficult to estimate.

If one's flat rides were always alone, on windless days, in the same aero-ness position and wearing the same aero-ness clothing, and with recorded heartrates, then strava could probably estimate a reasonable model of your power as a function of your speed, by correlating and lagging heartrate & power on climbs, and extrapolating that to heartrate on flats.  But that's not how people ride, so forget it......

Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Rob 11/13/12 1:10 PM
I have a powertap sl+ 28 hole hub that i really hate.  i seem to destroy the bearings pretty quickly then need to flip the quick release up on the brakes for climbs.  and it also stopped working after 2 months -- it is under warranty and i have an RMA but sending in a wheel is a pain in the ass.

anyway, i'd be willing to part with the thing for ~$200 but you'd need to deal with sending it in for them to fix it.  it is on a HED C2 rim with a decent amount of wear.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Jozias Dawson 11/13/12 1:12 PM
What everyone said is right here. I don't bike race but I do a few half ironmans a year which requires a lot of training.

Good rest, good diet, hydration, body weight, heart rate, core training (push ups, abs, etc.) running (I've found makes me more powerful).

Bottom line though is to ride A LOT and do it HARD always, keep your heart rate up.

If you just want to be faster and not race, then I don't think you need a power meter... I don't use one, when you get faster you you'll know it, it'll still be hard though... :)

Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Jozias Dawson 11/13/12 1:12 PM
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo thorpej 11/13/12 1:15 PM

On Nov 13, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Rob <rob...@manchero.org> wrote:

I have a powertap sl+ 28 hole hub that i really hate.  i seem to destroy the bearings pretty quickly then need to flip the quick release up on the brakes for climbs.  and it also stopped working after 2 months -- it is under warranty and i have an RMA but sending in a wheel is a pain in the ass.

Wow, weird.  My SL+ 32h is laced to an Open Pro (bought it used) and it's perfectly fine... they are notorious for being ruined quickly in the rain, tho... so I only use it in dry / foggy weather.

You opened the brake QR why?  Because the rim was rubbing?  Sounds like someone just plain did a bad wheel build.



anyway, i'd be willing to part with the thing for ~$200 but you'd need to deal with sending it in for them to fix it.  it is on a HED C2 rim with a decent amount of wear.


On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:31:44 AM UTC-8, Alejandro wrote:
Hello Hivemind,

Here's the sitch: I'd like to actually start working on a) increasing power and b) sustaining said power. I know they can be two completely different workouts and, rather than look up what a bunch of anonymous cyclists think on the interwebs, I'd like to solicite the thoughts and opinions of people I actually know and ride (and get dropped by) with. 

Base miles are cool and I typically don't have a problem with those (modulo laziness - easy fix), and I have Wolfpack Hustle every Monday, which, I've been told, is kinda like interval workouts. 

What else should I be doing? Hill intervals? Polo field lap intervals (how?) Go chase Brooks and Bret around the sunset/richmond? 

Random numbers:

Looking over my Strava numbers (note: I do not have a power meter so these are all based on Strava wizardry) it seems that any climb much more than ~5 minutes, my average power sits around 240-260w. On very rare occasions I can keep it above 300w for 5-6min while climbing (read: feels like I'm going to puke). Is this just one of those: "Do more of those efforts until they are the norm, rather than the exception" things? Simple? 

TL;DR is it a simple case of 'ride more' or do you, Hivemind, have smarter solutions that have worked well for you that I may be overlooking? 

Thanks and sorry for wall-of-text. 

--
Alejandro Villarreal | Program Manager | aleja...@google.com | 408-421-5158



--
-- follow: http://twitter.com/sf2g | terms: http://sf2g.com/terms.html | bike prep: http://sf2g.com/bike-prep.html | unsub: http://groups.google.com/group/sf2g
 
 

-- thorpej

Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Rob 11/13/12 1:19 PM
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:15 PM,  <tho...@me.com> wrote:
>
> On Nov 13, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Rob <rob...@manchero.org> wrote:
>
> I have a powertap sl+ 28 hole hub that i really hate.  i seem to destroy the
> bearings pretty quickly then need to flip the quick release up on the brakes
> for climbs.  and it also stopped working after 2 months -- it is under
> warranty and i have an RMA but sending in a wheel is a pain in the ass.
>
>
> Wow, weird.  My SL+ 32h is laced to an Open Pro (bought it used) and it's
> perfectly fine... they are notorious for being ruined quickly in the rain,
> tho... so I only use it in dry / foggy weather.

it is supposed to be a 'training wheel'.  complete bullshit that bike
stuff breaks when it rains.


> You opened the brake QR why?  Because the rim was rubbing?  Sounds like
> someone just plain did a bad wheel build.

perhaps, though works fine when the cartridge bearings are new, but gets shitty
as they wear.  must be all the power.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo djconnel 11/13/12 1:29 PM
The wired once, maybe even the pre-acquisition Graber wired ones, had the rain issue.  The wireless ones are fine, AFAIK. 
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Ben Kraft 11/13/12 1:29 PM
Cartridge bearing hubs seem to develop this side-to-side play as the bearings wear. My (older) powertap does, as do my phil wood tandem hubs. However, my pt only has crappy cartridge bearings on one side (drive side is a real shimano freehub), if the newer hubs have cartridges on both sides, the play is probably quite a bit worse.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Alejandro 11/13/12 1:33 PM
I'm not really sure if I want to jump on the powermeter wagon just yet; looking at slightly more structured riding so that if/when I do decided to jump into some races, I'm not immediately spit out the back. I've done a handful of unsanctioned (read: MASH) races and done reasonable, but those were fixed gear. The closest to a 'real' race was the TT from Pittsburgh to Sacramento, ~67mi, mostly flat, with 4 other strong riders.  

I think intervals based on perceived efforts and actually using my heart rate monitor are going to accomplish my medium-term goals (always be near the front of climbs on my group rides, sign up for some races this coming season and do reasonably well/get to cat 4 as quickly as possible). I'll be picking up copies of the suggested literature, thanks for the info, Lina.  


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Rob Manchester <rob...@manchero.org> wrote:



--
Alejandro Villarreal | Program Manager | aleja...@google.com | 408-421-5158


Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Patrick Kitto 11/13/12 1:41 PM
cat 4 upgrade is irrespective of race finishes, only a certain number of mass starts.

It is the Cat 3 upgrade that you have to start getting results for.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Carlin Eng 11/13/12 1:50 PM
Maybe weekend trips to Hellyer? I get the impression that track racing is pretty good for structured sprint efforts? Although I've never been, so I can't say from personal experience.


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Alejandro Villarreal <aleja...@google.com> wrote:
I'm not really sure if I want to jump on the powermeter wagon just yet; looking at slightly more structured riding so that if/when I do decided to jump into some races, I'm not immediately spit out the back. I've done a handful of unsanctioned (read: MASH) races and done reasonable, but those were fixed gear. The closest to a 'real' race was the TT from Pittsburgh to Sacramento, ~67mi, mostly flat, with 4 other strong riders.  

I think intervals based on perceived efforts and actually using my heart rate monitor are going to accomplish my medium-term goals (always be near the front of climbs on my group rides, sign up for some races this coming season and do reasonably well/get to cat 4 as quickly as possible). I'll be picking up copies of the suggested literature, thanks for the info, Lina.  


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Rob Manchester <rob...@manchero.org> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:15 PM,  <tho...@me.com> wrote:
>
> On Nov 13, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Rob <rob...@manchero.org> wrote:
>
> I have a powertap sl+ 28 hole hub that i really hate.  i seem to destroy the
> bearings pretty quickly then need to flip the quick release up on the brakes
> for climbs.  and it also stopped working after 2 months -- it is under
> warranty and i have an RMA but sending in a wheel is a pain in the ass.
>
>
> Wow, weird.  My SL+ 32h is laced to an Open Pro (bought it used) and it's
> perfectly fine... they are notorious for being ruined quickly in the rain,
> tho... so I only use it in dry / foggy weather.

it is supposed to be a 'training wheel'.  complete bullshit that bike
stuff breaks when it rains.


> You opened the brake QR why?  Because the rim was rubbing?  Sounds like
> someone just plain did a bad wheel build.

perhaps, though works fine when the cartridge bearings are new, but gets shitty
as they wear.  must be all the power.



--
Alejandro Villarreal | Program Manager | aleja...@google.com | 408-421-5158



Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Alejandro 11/13/12 1:54 PM



On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Patrick Kitto <patric...@gmail.com> wrote:
cat 4 upgrade is irrespective of race finishes, only a certain number of mass starts.

Right, but I want to be in the front, away from the majority of the crashes ;)

re: Hellyer - it's pretty awesome (I've been a handful of times). Before the beginning of the upcoming season, though, they only had beginner sessions and races on weekends - no intermediate/open practice/race prep. Those happened during the week and I live in SF; so that was out. 

This upcoming season, though, they are adding some intermediate and race preparation sessions on the weekend, huzzah! 

It is the Cat 3 upgrade that you have to start getting results for.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Rob 11/13/12 2:02 PM


On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:29:04 PM UTC-8, djconnel wrote:
The wired once, maybe even the pre-acquisition Graber wired ones, had the rain issue.  The wireless ones are fine, AFAIK. 

Mine is wireless and had water in it when i first opened it last april.  got the unit in Feb and pretty much rode with it every day it rained in march.  I suspect that the cap wasn't fully tightened when i got it as there are o-rings which should keep the inside dry.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Ali Raizin 11/13/12 2:10 PM
I second the track suggestion. I don't know about Hellyer, but at my former local velodromes, the group training was great for working to build up speed and improving pedal stroke and turnover.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Eric A 11/13/12 2:17 PM
Alejandro, cheapest start is to read Friel's book.  I can loan you a copy if you want.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Peter Chang 11/13/12 2:25 PM
2012/11/13 Rob Manchester <rob...@manchero.org>:
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:15 PM,  <tho...@me.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Nov 13, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Rob <rob...@manchero.org> wrote:
>>
>> I have a powertap sl+ 28 hole hub that i really hate.  i seem to destroy the
>> bearings pretty quickly then need to flip the quick release up on the brakes
>> for climbs.  and it also stopped working after 2 months -- it is under
>> warranty and i have an RMA but sending in a wheel is a pain in the ass.
>>
>>
>> Wow, weird.  My SL+ 32h is laced to an Open Pro (bought it used) and it's
>> perfectly fine... they are notorious for being ruined quickly in the rain,
>> tho... so I only use it in dry / foggy weather.
>
> it is supposed to be a 'training wheel'.  complete bullshit that bike
> stuff breaks when it rains.

+1

anyway, the axle is setup so that the ID of the bearing hits a
shoulder. this is nice because you can't overtighten the bearing but
it means that when the bearing fails internally it does so quickly.
the non-drive side bearing is also pretty small so the failure is
usually on that side.

\p
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Peter Chang 11/13/12 2:27 PM
2012/11/13 Patrick Kitto <patric...@gmail.com>:
> cat 4 upgrade is irrespective of race finishes, only a certain number of
> mass starts.

that just shows how old you are :-)

cat5 is the cat4 and you need points to move out of cat4.

\p
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Patrick Kitto 11/13/12 2:41 PM
That's what I meant. Starts to move into 4, and finishes to move into 3. unless that changed it since i last bought a USAC license in 2010.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Peter Chang 11/13/12 2:46 PM
2012/11/13 Patrick Kitto <patric...@gmail.com>:
> That's what I meant. Starts to move into 4, and finishes to move into 3.

oh. reading comprehension fail on my part. i read 'upgrade to 4'.

carry on.

\p
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo robert_sexton 11/13/12 3:37 PM
I've found that VAM is a great metric, and you can get it out of your computer.    I pay attention to the VAM numbers on Strava, and try to beat them on the next ride or use them for pacing on a big climb.   On the flats, I use heart rate.  I've been getting pretty good improvement in my performance over the last year just by applying Rule #5 on a regular basis.

I just got a power meter, and its pretty cool, but it doesn't seem like a big improvement.   One good thing is that it does keep you from lying to yourself.  Now I know exactly how much I suck.   

- Robert

On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:56:44 AM UTC-8, Patrick Kitto wrote:
yes while power meters are rad and allow all kinds of science like bike dorkery, you can get faster without one.

Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo blizzzz 11/13/12 4:03 PM
I went with the Carmichael and Rutberg book "The Time Crunched Cyclist" for my power training plan.

Initially I purchased  "Training and Racing with a Power Meter" I found this book to be hard to follow / overkill / too much information with limited time to dedicate towards this fitness project. I considered getting personal coaching via Pen Velo's team coach.. but that was expensive and I already had limited access to him for general questions which was a great team perk.

Time Crunched Cyclist or TCC broke it down very simply and it was easy to create all the workout plans.

Key points:
  • Can't effectively train with power without a power meter. You need to be actively viewing watt output while riding.
  • (2) 8 min "all out" efforts determine your workout wattage thresholds for the rest of the plan.
  • I entered all the TCC workouts via Garmin Connect and downloaded them to my Garmin 500 device.
  • Using the Garmin "Training / Workout" feature.. just follow along until you are done.
  •  It keeps you honest w/ exact effort and recovery periods along with no fumbling for button pressing during workouts.

Finding a location that fits the criteria
  • Slight uphill grade is ideal.. rollers or downhill sections become tricky when trying to maintain power.
  • No traffic lights / stop signs or any reason to stop.
  • I became a fan of the Guadalupe / Mt San Bruno climb. Most of my intervals would start at the corner of Bayshore but for longer 10+ min efforts I would actually need to alter the course slightly.
  • Polo Fields also works.. but many times there were joggers / walkers / kids etc.. and safety can be a concern during peak use hours.

That being said.. I got a lot stronger.. and got smarter regarding knowing how many watts I could sustain for a specific length of time. The downside... riding became "working out" vs. just going for a ride.. which can sometimes suck. Most of the time you really can't ride with others.. or at least in my case no one wanted to go up and down San Bruno mountain multiple times before work. 

D

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Ted Ketai <tke...@gmail.com> wrote:

Intervals.

Also, you're dead to me, roadie scum ;-)

On Nov 13, 2012 9:31 AM, "Alejandro Villarreal" <aleja...@google.com> wrote:
Hello Hivemind,

Here's the sitch: I'd like to actually start working on a) increasing power and b) sustaining said power. I know they can be two completely different workouts and, rather than look up what a bunch of anonymous cyclists think on the interwebs, I'd like to solicite the thoughts and opinions of people I actually know and ride (and get dropped by) with. 

Base miles are cool and I typically don't have a problem with those (modulo laziness - easy fix), and I have Wolfpack Hustle every Monday, which, I've been told, is kinda like interval workouts. 

What else should I be doing? Hill intervals? Polo field lap intervals (how?) Go chase Brooks and Bret around the sunset/richmond? 

Random numbers:

Looking over my Strava numbers (note: I do not have a power meter so these are all based on Strava wizardry) it seems that any climb much more than ~5 minutes, my average power sits around 240-260w. On very rare occasions I can keep it above 300w for 5-6min while climbing (read: feels like I'm going to puke). Is this just one of those: "Do more of those efforts until they are the norm, rather than the exception" things? Simple? 

TL;DR is it a simple case of 'ride more' or do you, Hivemind, have smarter solutions that have worked well for you that I may be overlooking? 

Thanks and sorry for wall-of-text. 


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Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Carlin Eng 11/13/12 4:14 PM
"The downside... riding became "working out" vs. just going for a ride.. which can sometimes suck"

That's a huge downside in my book :(

I understand wanting to maximize your potential and the thrill of competition, but ultimately, I like riding for fun. I have enough chores in my life, and I don't want my "leisure" activity to turn into one of them. But maybe that's just my way of rationalizing laziness and/or lack of natural talent :P
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Judd 11/13/12 4:19 PM
On the flipside, I haven't really been riding that much recently - waking up sucks on the weekdays, and I've usually got more fun things to do on the weekends, so I'd been thinking of picking up TCC. Properly applied, seems like getting faster and forcing yourself to get out and ride when you don't really feel like it (rule 5, bitches) could actually bring some fun back for someone like me.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Patrick Kitto 11/13/12 4:20 PM
This is why I do PE workouts.

When it is time for work, you work. when ti isn't, you don't have any numbers staring you in the face that you are used to concentrating on. Just go out and enjoy the ride. 

Let the terrain presented to you determine the length of your power output and your lowest gear determine the intensity of the interval.

and always go as fast as possible on the decent. always.


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Carlin Eng <carl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Ali Raizin 11/13/12 4:21 PM
Where do you start the Mt San Bruno climb if you want to do a 20 min test?

I tried to go there last week after dark, got lost and ended up in a subdivision.
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Maciek Wojciechowski 11/13/12 4:33 PM



On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Carlin Eng <carl...@gmail.com> wrote:
"The downside... riding became "working out" vs. just going for a ride.. which can sometimes suck"

That's a huge downside in my book :(

I understand wanting to maximize your potential and the thrill of competition, but ultimately, I like riding for fun. I have enough chores in my life, and I don't want my "leisure" activity to turn into one of them. But maybe that's just my way of rationalizing laziness and/or lack of natural talent :P

(says a guy who shows up in Mountain View at 7am to ride laps on a 1 mile course...)

+1 to all this!

Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Eric A 11/13/12 4:39 PM

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Carlin Eng <carl...@gmail.com> wrote:
"The downside... riding became "working out" vs. just going for a ride.. which can sometimes suck"

That's a huge downside in my book :(

I understand wanting to maximize your potential and the thrill of competition, but ultimately, I like riding for fun. I have enough chores in my life, and I don't want my "leisure" activity to turn into one of them. But maybe that's just my way of rationalizing laziness and/or lack of natural talent :P

And Carlin has *not* joined the Dark Side!

Training is wanking....   ;-)

Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Alejandro 11/13/12 4:40 PM



On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Ali Raizin <ara...@gmail.com> wrote:
Where do you start the Mt San Bruno climb if you want to do a 20 min test?

I tried to go there last week after dark, got lost and ended up in a subdivision.

This is a good way to go that will give you 20-25+ minutes (for us mere mortals. Phipps doesn't count).
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Faye 11/13/12 9:30 PM
Greetings from Tucson where I am taking a small break. 

Just your friendly Strava representative wanting to let you know that POWER is coming to Strava Premium members in 2013, for Realz.  It is one of the biggest things we are working on.  It will be for power meters and it will replace the current power calculations which will be going away.  More info after next week!

F
Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Alejandro 11/15/12 3:21 PM
Forget all this fancy training mumbo jumbo, I bet if I was like this dude, I'd be way faster:

Inline image 1


Frame mounted water bottle, handlebar mounted water botte, camelback - dude's got his hydration down. 

Maybe he only owns one helmet/bike? Dunno but dude was STYLIN' on the Sausalito bike path. Zach approves. 





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Alejandro Villarreal | Program Manager | aleja...@google.com | 408-421-5158


Re: OT: Need more wattz, yo Alejandro 11/15/12 3:56 PM



On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Carlin Eng <carl...@gmail.com> wrote:
I hate him cos he has nicer kit than I do 


Fixed that for you (at least that's what I was thinking). 
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