Sheldon "They're Everywhere" Brown, for his article in the June '96 issue
of "Buycycling" magazine.  It basically plagarized the discussion held
here several months ago, regarding the decision of "Mountain Bike Action"
to cease accepting ads from VooDoo bikes, by compiling a list (a very
*familiar* list) of other bike-related products with names that could
also be considered offensive to the Religious Right.

Hmmm, I wonder where he got the idea for that story?

Richard Strayer
--
KPMG Peat Marwick                     |                  Los Angeles
Information Services                  |                  California, U.S.A.

Somebody wrote:
>
> I'd like to nominate someone for a r.b.m. Hall of Shame (ala the thread
> currently running in r.b.r.):
>
> Sheldon "They're Everywhere" Brown, for his article in the June '96 issue
> of "Buycycling" magazine.  It basically plagarized the discussion held
> here several months ago, regarding the decision of "Mountain Bike Action"
> to cease accepting ads from VooDoo bikes, by compiling a list (a very
> *familiar* list) of other bike-related products with names that could
> also be considered offensive to the Religious Right.
>
> Hmmm, I wonder where he got the idea for that story?
>
> Richard Strayer

This is true, there was a sizeable list of "satanic" bicycle names posted
on this list at the end of January, under the subject "Evil bicycles".  

I wrote this posting.  A couple of days later, I received an email from an
editor at Bicycling, asking if they could use it, for a small fee.  I said
yes, and there it is!

Sheldon "Self Plagiarist" Brown
Newtonville, Massachusetts
+---------------------------------------------+
|   Life is made up of sobs, sniffles, and    |
|   smiles, with sniffles predominating.      |
|                               --O. Henry    |
+---------------------------------------------+
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/biz/hub/
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
(617) 244-1040  FAX  244-1041

>Sheldon "They're Everywhere" Brown, for his article in the June '96 issue

>*familiar* list) of other bike-related products with names that could
>also be considered offensive to the Religious Right.
>

Do you have a different point that you didn't express well?

M

bar...@io.org - http://www.io.org/~barnard/web/barnard.htm -
"Old wood to burn! Old wine to drink! Old friends to trust!
Old authors to read!"  Francis Bacon

Information Services wrote:
>
> I'd like to nominate someone for a r.b.m. Hall of Shame (ala the thread
> currently running in r.b.r.):
>

> Sheldon "They're Everywhere" Brown, for his article in the June '96 issue

> of "Buycycling" magazine.  It basically plagarized the discussion held
> here several months ago, regarding the decision of "Mountain Bike Action"

> *familiar* list) of other bike-related products with names that could
> also be considered offensive to the Religious Right.
>

> Hmmm, I wonder where he got the idea for that story?
>
> Richard Strayer

> --
> KPMG Peat Marwick                     |                  Los Angeles
> Information Services                  |                  California, U.S.A.

How MANY months ago?  Magazines typically must have their issues
laid out anywhere from 3 to 6 months in advance.  That means
an article written for a magazine must have been submitted anywhere
from 6 months to a YEAR prior to the issue being printed.  If it
was submitted 6 months ago, it had to have been WRITTEN prior to
that.  A consumer-driven magazine like Bicycling may have shortened
these times somewhat, but I don't think by much.

Since the June '96 issue is probably already out now, that would
put the article submittal time at somewhere around last November
or December.

It seems to me unlikely that Sheldon Brown, who is quite a prolific
writer in his own right, would have "plagarized" from a newsgroup
whose members he knew full well would be reading the "plagarized"
article.

Say what you like, the man is NOT dumb.  This scenario sounds VERY
unlikely to me.

Holly D

: Information Services wrote:
: >
: > I'd like to nominate someone for a r.b.m. Hall of Shame (ala the thread
: > currently running in r.b.r.):
: >
: > Sheldon "They're Everywhere" Brown, for his article in the June '96 issue
: > of "Buycycling" magazine.  It basically plagarized the discussion held
: > here several months ago, regarding the decision of "Mountain Bike Action"

: > Richard Strayer

: It seems to me unlikely that Sheldon Brown, who is quite a prolific

: writer in his own right, would have "plagarized" from a newsgroup
: whose members he knew full well would be reading the "plagarized"
: article.

: Say what you like, the man is NOT dumb.  This scenario sounds VERY
: unlikely to me.

: Holly D

And to me, since the man in question is responsible for a double-digit
percentage of the signal on these groups.  I doubt Sheldon Brown
learns more from rec.bikes.* than he already knows.

Mark "Richard, watch those Bayonetz (TM)" Madsen

--
Mark Madsen <m...@ansa.co.uk> Telephone: +44-1223-568934
APM Ltd Poseidon House Castle Park Cambridge CB3 0RD UK
<URL:http://www.ansa.co.uk/><URL:mailto:a...@ansa.co.uk>
Reception: +44-1223-515010;  Facsimile: +44-1223-359779

>>Sheldon "They're Everywhere" Brown, for his article in the June '96 issue

>>*familiar* list) of other bike-related products with names that could
>>also be considered offensive to the Religious Right.

>Gee, my memory tells me that Sheldon created that list and posted it here.  

>Did you miss the attribution?  If he then put it in an article and got paid
>for it, I think that's great.

My memory obviously differs from yours.  My recollection is that a post
announcing MBA's decision precipitated a lengthy discussion during which
numerous company & product names were contributed by a variety of
individuals.  I was under the impression that Sheldon compiled his list
from that series of posts, but if it was he who actually began that thread
with his list then I appologize for my accusation.

>Do you have a different point that you didn't express well?

I always express myself well.  I'm just not always right.

RES

--
KPMG Peat Marwick                     |                  Los Angeles
Information Services                  |                  California, U.S.A.

In <kpmglibD...@netcom.com> kpm...@netcom.com (Information Services) writes:

>Sheldon "They're Everywhere" Brown, for his article in the June '96 issue

>of "Buycycling" magazine.  It basically plagarized the discussion held
>here several months ago, regarding the decision of "Mountain Bike Action"

>*familiar* list) of other bike-related products with names that could
>also be considered offensive to the Religious Right.

This wouldn't be the first time somebody who made major
contributions to a thread here also pulled the information
together for paid publication, and frankly I don't see anything
wrong with it.  Should the various magazine editors and
employees who frequent these groups either contribute nothing
on-line or quit the publishing business?  Should Jobst decline
to add to his book information he first develops as a response
to a usenet query?

--

 Josh@WolfeNet.com  is  Joshua Putnam / P.O. Box 13220 / Burton, WA 98013
                       "My other bike is a car."                  
New & used bike parts for sale: finger Joshua_Putnam@WolfeNet.com for list.

>Somebody wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to nominate someone for a r.b.m. Hall of Shame (ala the thread
>> currently running in r.b.r.):
>>

>> Sheldon "They're Everywhere" Brown, for his article in the June '96 issue
>> of "Buycycling" magazine.  It basically plagarized the discussion held
>> here several months ago, regarding the decision of "Mountain Bike Action"
>> to cease accepting ads from VooDoo bikes, by compiling a list (a very
>> *familiar* list) of other bike-related products with names that could
>> also be considered offensive to the Religious Right.
>>

>> Hmmm, I wonder where he got the idea for that story?
>>
>> Richard Strayer

Sheldon, your sins have been revealed!   <*gasp*>

>This is true, there was a sizeable list of "satanic" bicycle names posted
>on this list at the end of January, under the subject "Evil bicycles".  
>
>I wrote this posting.  A couple of days later, I received an email from an
>editor at Bicycling, asking if they could use it, for a small fee.  I said
>yes, and there it is!
>
>Sheldon "Self Plagiarist" Brown
>Newtonville, Massachusetts

When I saw the article my first thought was "Hmmm... this looks
familiar."  As I scanned on I was amazed at the similarity and
upset with Bicycling for such a complete ripoff.  When I saw the
credit at the end I was chagrined at my readiness to assume the
worst and glad to see Sheldon had been given full credit.

It seems like there was other content from Usenet in that issue,
but I can't recall off the top of my head what it was.  I'm glad
to see some of the more creative contributions to r.b.* get a
wider audience, but not so crazy about paying to read something
I saw two months ago for free.

Ted

|--  Theodore Heise  -----------------------  the...@netins.net  --|
|--  Omaha, Nebraska USA  ---  Principles before personalities!  --|

> >Sheldon "They're Everywhere" Brown, for his article in the June '96 issue

> >*familiar* list) of other bike-related products with names that could
> >also be considered offensive to the Religious Right.

Not that Sheldon deserves vinication, necesarily, but thanks to Stephen M.
Ciccarelli there is an archive, and the original article can be found at
   http://blueridge.infomkt.ibm.com/bikes/News/misc/66/misc.0000046
Which dates Sheldon's evil thread to 30 Jan 96.
--
              ,
Eric P. Salathe, Jr.                          sal...@atmos.washington.edu
Seattle, Washington                   http://atmos.washington.edu/~salathe

> When I saw the article my first thought was "Hmmm... this looks
> familiar."  As I scanned on I was amazed at the similarity and
> upset with Bicycling for such a complete ripoff.  When I saw the
> credit at the end I was chagrined at my readiness to assume the
> worst and glad to see Sheldon had been given full credit.
>
> It seems like there was other content from Usenet in that issue,
> but I can't recall off the top of my head what it was.  I'm glad
> to see some of the more creative contributions to r.b.* get a
> wider audience, but not so crazy about paying to read something
> I saw two months ago for free.

This is an interesting turn of events. a few years ago BuyCycling magazine
exhibited a condescending attitude towards the Bicycle Newsgroups. I remember
a case in point in which a subscriber had a beef with them and brought it to
light on the one, and only, bike newsgroup at that time (rec.bicycles).

Because of this posting, I got so pissed off at them that I wrote them a letter
just to hear their side of the story. What I got back confirmed my suspicions.

At that time, the editors/writers did not consider the Usenet newsgroup a
serious entity that contained any meaningful content concerning bicycle
related topics. In fact the letter I got back from them referred to the group as
a "chatter" board.

In the context of their response letter it was apparent that they considered the
group some sort of joke that no one took seriously. In my original letter to them I
emphasized the fact that at that time the estimated readership for Rec.bicycles was
around 33,000 (I don't remember who posted this figure but it sounded good). I doubt
they believed it..

Now we have them pulling stuff off these groups to use in their "formerly" content free
publication. I guess they've finally figured it out... "it" being the power and value
of the Internet.