R2C2 freeze

Showing 1-51 of 51 messages
R2C2 freeze StarterKid 5/6/12 12:46 PM
Hey there,

I set up my MendelMax this weekend, plugged the r2c2 and everything was fine.
I did some checks and calibrated everything, nothing special to that point, except for the temperature sensor in the Extruder. It was fluctuating from 27°C up to 70°C, but the metal still was cold. 
The other temperature sensor stayed on about 19°C (Room-temp). Even after exchanging the two sensors it was the same.
After that I tried to print, but after the restart of the board it does not do anything :/
The counter in replicatorg stopped and nothing happens. Even though everything worked nice manually (heat up, motors, sensors,...).

I bought the StarterKit of R2C2 and made a Video of what happend.
I hope somebody can help 

Jan
Re: R2C2 freeze ncx94 5/6/12 11:30 PM
Hi,

On my prusa, the sensor of the extruder does the same when cold, but works fine when hot. What about your?

After that I tried to print, but after the restart of the board it does not do anything :/
I don't understand this, do you mean that when you try to print, the board restarts and then didn't do anything?
What system are using? Because on windows 7, when the board restarts, you need to unplug and replug it so that the port appears and you be able to use it.

Hope this helps
Best regards,
Nicolas

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 6 mai 2012 à 21:46, StarterKid <jan.s...@googlemail.com> a écrit :

Hey there,

I set up my MendelMax this weekend, plugged the r2c2 and everything was fine.
I did some checks and calibrated everything, nothing special to that point, except for the temperature sensor in the Extruder. It was fluctuating from 27°C up to 70°C, but the metal still was cold. 
The other temperature sensor stayed on about 19°C (Room-temp). Even after exchanging the two sensors it was the same.

The counter in replicatorg stopped and nothing happens. Even though everything worked nice manually (heat up, motors, sensors,...).

I bought the StarterKit of R2C2 and made a Video of what happend.
I hope somebody can help 

Jan
Re: R2C2 freeze racribeiro 5/7/12 2:07 AM
Hi Jan,

Welcome to this community!

What I see in the video is "normal"... R2C2 is waiting for the temperature to reach the desired value. It takes about one or two minutes to get there. It then starts moving really slowly towards printing base and then it starts at "full speed".

How much time have you waited? Are your resistors setup to actually make any heat that the sensors can pickup? 

You may try to make a "dry run", just remove the GCODE lines that addresses the temperature on the gcode file.

Some links:

Rui


Re: R2C2 freeze bobc 5/7/12 2:43 AM
Hi Jan

I think your board is resetting after it starts to print, which you can tell from the double beep. This could be caused by drawing too much current from the board.

The temperature sensors are not accurate around room temp and will fluctuate a lot, that is ok.
Re: R2C2 freeze StarterKid 5/7/12 2:53 AM
Hi,

it seems as if bobc was exactly right, because when I try to heat up the bed AND the extruder at the same time the r2c2 restarts and does not reconnect. Even if I unplug and replug it manually, replicatorg has to be restarted too, but then of course the print is aborted...
Can I limit the power for the heater-resistors? Or heat them up seperately?
I think I'll try another computer with Windows XP, see if it reconnects there..

Thanks for the immediate help guys
Re: R2C2 freeze racribeiro 5/7/12 2:57 AM
Hi all,

My board also "double beeps" upon printing and that isn't a (hard) reset... on ReplicatorG the "start.gcode" has a "home reset" code that produces that sound. 

Rui

2012/5/7 bobc <bobcou...@gmail.com>

Hi Jan

I think your board is resetting after it starts to print, which you can tell from the double beep. This could be caused by drawing too much current from the board.


Re: R2C2 freeze racribeiro 5/7/12 2:58 AM
Hi Jan,

2012/5/7 StarterKid <jan.s...@googlemail.com>

Hi,

it seems as if bobc was exactly right, because when I try to heat up the bed AND the extruder at the same time the r2c2 restarts and does not reconnect.

When the board makes a hard reset, the serial link is lost "forever"... 

Rui



Re: R2C2 freeze bobc 5/7/12 3:02 AM
If you listen carefully the reset beep is two different tones, I think the home beeps are the same tone. But you can also see the LEDs on the board flash in the sequence you get on reset.
Re: R2C2 freeze StarterKid 5/7/12 3:10 AM
Yep, You're right with the hard reset I guess.
I made a dry run some minutes ago (without M104) and it works.
Did you have the same problem bobc?
Re: R2C2 freeze bobc 5/7/12 3:11 AM
This seems to be annoying bug in Windows, we have been struggling with this at work. We use a variety of USB serial adapters with our vacuum pumps, and often noise causes the USB to hang. To recover, the only reliable way seems to be to close the comm port, unplug/replug the USB, then open the comms port. If the application does not allow control of the com port, then it must be shutdown, then replug USB, restart the application. Of course, everyone blames my application, so I am expected to provide a "fix" for it!

Linux seems to be more resilient, but I often have to shut down pronterface and restart it to get comms back - that may just be a problem with pronterface code. With cutecom I can usually just reopen the port and it works fine.

Somewhere in the design of USB they seriously messed up, if it works worse than the simple RS232 cable it was supposed to replace. I strongly suspect Microsoft, they manage to screw up most things.
Re: R2C2 freeze ncx94 5/7/12 3:41 AM
That's strange I don't have any beep when homing.. 
However starter kid I think your heated bed/ extruder is using to much current. What resistors are you using? My board used to do that. If you're using the one supplied with r2c2, check that you wired the heated bed resistors correctly: two groups of 2 resistors in parallel.
Nicolas

Envoyé de mon iPhone
Re: R2C2 freeze bobc 5/7/12 4:03 AM
No, but I have seen a similar thing happen on other boards ;)

I am using a 60W 12V power brick for my board, which is what I happened to have available, then when I added a heated bed I used a separate 300W power supply which is switched via an external relay. The big PSU has a noisy fan though (it's a PSU from an old PC).

I could use a single 12V PSU, but I am going to build a new heated bed with a new fanless 24V supply switched by an opto-isoloated MOSFET driver, and keep everything else on the 12V PSU.
Re: R2C2 freeze ncx94 5/7/12 4:26 AM
I asked that because if the resistors use too much current, the power supplie restarts, because of the safe mode, and make the board have a hard reset, as we can see on the video

Envoyé de mon iPhone
Re: R2C2 freeze StarterKid 5/7/12 5:48 AM
Hey ncx94,

I am using the resistors supplied with the starterkit, and also I am sure they are wired correct...
Is there any possibility to limit the power consumption? They would take longer to heat up I think, but this would be acceptable to me.


Am Sonntag, 6. Mai 2012 21:46:59 UTC+2 schrieb StarterKid:
Re: R2C2 freeze ncx94 5/7/12 5:54 AM
Hey,
i don't know another possiblity than usind a second power supply.. or maybe using less resistors, but i should work so no reason to do that..
and verify the wiring. it took me an hour to understand taht i was wrong..
Re: R2C2 freeze StarterKid 5/7/12 9:24 AM
I really thing that my wiring is right, but correct me if i am mistaken:
Re: R2C2 freeze ncx94 5/7/12 9:33 AM
Apparently you're not. Anyway, are you sure that the solders doesn't touch the bed? That could be the problem.

Envoyé de mon iPhone
<20120507_180829.jpg>
Re: R2C2 freeze StarterKid 5/7/12 9:59 AM
Yep, i am sure. But I will isolate them with kapton and report :)
Re: R2C2 freeze Jorge Pinto 5/7/12 9:59 AM
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:24 PM, StarterKid <jan.s...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I really thing that my wiring is right, but correct me if i am mistaken:

Hello Jan.

Seems that your problem is the auto power off protection of the power
supply. Power supply kinds of "reset" if the current is higher than
the 9.2Amps.

The picture of your heated bed power resistors connection seems to be
correct. Please try to open the circuit for 2 resistor that are in
series (open one blue cable connection). See if you can print (even if
the heated bed will not reach the 120ºC -- if have PLA you can print
with 60ºC on heated bed).

--
Cumprimentos,

Jorge Pinto
jpi...@bitbox.pt
Tel: 00 351 927145983
Re: R2C2 freeze Jorge Pinto 5/7/12 10:02 AM
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:59 PM, StarterKid <jan.s...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Yep, i am sure. But I will isolate them with kapton and report :)

Yes. And please use a multimeter and measure the total resistance,
tell us what is the value.
Re: R2C2 freeze bobc 5/7/12 11:13 AM
Looks fine, as long as the wires are not shorting to the bed, which I am sure you have checked.

But I think the problem may be total power. The heated bed takes about 175W (24V, 3.3R), that leaves 45W for everything else. I don't know what hotend you are using but some take 40W. That leaves 5W.. maybe that is not enough much headroom. If hotend is designed for 12V it will take more power at 24V.

My new heated bed is going to be over 220W...
Re: R2C2 freeze StarterKid 5/7/12 11:28 AM
Ok, the total resistance is 4.0 OHM.
@bobc: the heated bed consumes even more, each resistor uses 50W, which makes 200W for the heated bed :(
@all: Does anybody know which heater-resistor is included in the package? With this one it should work all together, right?

I'll now try to print with only two of the resistors, I'll report soon.
Re: R2C2 freeze bobc 5/7/12 11:50 AM

It doesn't work like that...the resistors are rated at 50W, but the power is determined by the formula P=VI. Since V=IR, P=V^2/R.

I can see from your pic the resistors are 3.3R which is the right value for the starter kit. The 2x2 arrangement of resistors also has a total resistance of 3.3R. Adding a little for the leads, 4 Ohm sounds about right.

So with resistance at 3.3R, at 24V the power is therefore 24*24/3.3 = 174.5 W.

It is true that each resistor will run at 174.5/4 = 87 W, in this arrangement.
 
Using 2 resistors in series the total power drawn will be half the above, ie. 87W.

According to the r2c2 website the heater resistor uses 26W at 24V, so if you are using that you should stay within the total power. It would be also a good idea to measure the resistance of the hotend as well.
Re: R2C2 freeze ncx94 5/7/12 12:12 PM
I don't Know the one that is supplied, but it's written on the website. If you use this, it will work. 
If you're using the resistor supplied with your hotend, there is 80% chances that this is the problem, because most of the board works with 12v

Envoyé de mon iPhone
Re: R2C2 freeze StarterKid 5/7/12 12:33 PM
Ok, this is the configuration in which I tested it now:
and it seems to work :D I will soon start printing with filament.

Am Sonntag, 6. Mai 2012 21:46:59 UTC+2 schrieb StarterKid:
Am Sonntag, 6. Mai 2012 21:46:59 UTC+2 schrieb StarterKid:
Re: R2C2 freeze ncx94 5/7/12 12:43 PM
Enjoy your printer then! And try to check the value of the hot end resistor, to see if this is the problem

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 7 mai 2012 à 21:33, StarterKid <jan.s...@googlemail.com> a écrit :

Ok, this is the configuration in which I tested it now:
and it seems to work :D I will soon start printing with filament.
Am Sonntag, 6. Mai 2012 21:46:59 UTC+2 schrieb StarterKid:
Hey there,

I set up my MendelMax this weekend, plugged the r2c2 and everything was fine.
I did some checks and calibrated everything, nothing special to that point, except for the temperature sensor in the Extruder. It was fluctuating from 27°C up to 70°C, but the metal still was cold. 
The other temperature sensor stayed on about 19°C (Room-temp). Even after exchanging the two sensors it was the same.
After that I tried to print, but after the restart of the board it does not do anything :/
The counter in replicatorg stopped and nothing happens. Even though everything worked nice manually (heat up, motors, sensors,...).

I bought the StarterKit of R2C2 and made a Video of what happend.
I hope somebody can help 

Jan

Am Sonntag, 6. Mai 2012 21:46:59 UTC+2 schrieb StarterKid:
Hey there,

I set up my MendelMax this weekend, plugged the r2c2 and everything was fine.
I did some checks and calibrated everything, nothing special to that point, except for the temperature sensor in the Extruder. It was fluctuating from 27°C up to 70°C, but the metal still was cold. 
The other temperature sensor stayed on about 19°C (Room-temp). Even after exchanging the two sensors it was the same.
After that I tried to print, but after the restart of the board it does not do anything :/
The counter in replicatorg stopped and nothing happens. Even though everything worked nice manually (heat up, motors, sensors,...).

I bought the StarterKit of R2C2 and made a Video of what happend.
I hope somebody can help 

Jan
<20120507_204930.jpg>
Re: R2C2 freeze StarterKid 5/10/12 2:04 AM
Soo, after a day at university I am back, and the extruder resistor has 7.5 Ohm. Isn't this a little much??
Re: R2C2 freeze ncx94 5/10/12 8:10 AM
That's not the resistor provided with the starter kit isn't it? For me, that's to high.


Envoyé de mon iPhone
Re: R2C2 freeze StarterKid 5/10/12 8:33 AM
jop, you're right. Today I bought another resistor with 1.75 Ohm, which should be enough to heat the extruder. It is a little too big for the heating-element which is now heating the extruder, so it will take  couple of days in which I make a new one.
Re: R2C2 freeze ncx94 5/10/12 8:37 AM
Why don't you use the one that's provided with R2C2? Ok, don't forget to tell us how it goes! :)

Envoyé de mon iPhone
Re: R2C2 freeze bobc 5/10/12 11:52 AM
We are seriously overlooking Ohms Law here. Your 1.75 Ohm resistor will not last long.

The equations you need are V=IR and P=VI.
Re: R2C2 freeze Jorge Pinto 5/10/12 3:58 PM
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 4:33 PM, StarterKid <jan.s...@googlemail.com> wrote:

You shouldn't use a resistor with less than 22 ohms (R2C2 kit plus
extruder resistor is 22R). The power supply will only hold the 4
resistors of the heated bed (3.3 ohms) and the resistor for extruder
(22 ohms).

--
Cumprimentos,

Jorge Pinto
jpi...@bitbox.pt
Tel: 00 351 927145983
Re: R2C2 freeze StarterKid 5/12/12 2:56 PM
Oh man, you're so absolutely right...
It's a little embarrassing that I cannot differ between multiply and divide....
Bad mistake.
Well, I think I can spend again .80 € to the correct resistor :)
More on Monday :)

Am Freitag, 11. Mai 2012 00:58:05 UTC+2 schrieb Jorge Pinto:
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 4:33 PM, StarterKid wrote:

You shouldn't use a resistor with less than 22 ohms (R2C2 kit plus
extruder resistor is 22R). The power supply will only hold the 4
resistors of the heated bed (3.3 ohms) and the resistor for extruder
(22 ohms).

--
Cumprimentos,

Jorge Pinto

Reprap mirror ncx94 5/25/12 10:20 AM

Hi everybody,
I just became aware that I had a problem with my reprap: it prints like if it was in a mirror: for example, I tried to print an iPhone case, and the holes for the volume buttons/ camera where on the wrong side... How can I correct this? Thank you very much,
Nicolas
Envoyé de mon iPhone
Re: Reprap mirror Bryan Lambrecht 5/25/12 11:20 AM
One of your axies are inverted, you need to find what axis it was mirrored about, and reverse the stepper wires for that axis.
Re: Reprap mirror ncx94 5/25/12 11:33 AM
Ok, i'm gonna try. That's strange but i'll look (manually, it works on the good sense)

Envoyé de mon iPhone
Re: Reprap mirror ncx94 5/26/12 2:43 PM
I just looked at my prusa. It's strange because manually it moves the axis in the good direction when you moves, but it still prints in mirror.. Isn't there a soft setting? (like on skeinforge)
Thank you 
Nicolas

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 25 mai 2012 à 20:20, Bryan Lambrecht <bryan.l...@gmail.com> a écrit :

Re: Reprap mirror bobc 5/27/12 3:40 AM
I'd assumed that X+ would be left->right and Y+ to be front->back, but it seems some type of machine reverse this. It is ok if both axes are reversed, the model will print facing the opposite direction.

Note that direction is with respect to the print head, not the print table. If the table moves, it moves in the opposite direction to the direction requested.

There appear to be capability inside ReplicatorG to invert axes, I don't know how that is accessed. As far as I know the default is always non-inverted, and all the software should work assuming non-inverted axes.

So I am wondering if what you think is the correct manual move direction is not what the software thinks is the correct direction.
Re: Reprap mirror Jorge Pinto 5/28/12 2:37 AM
On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 11:40 AM, bobc <bobcou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd assumed that X+ would be left->right and Y+ to be front->back, but it
> seems some type of machine reverse this. It is ok if both axes are reversed,
> the model will print facing the opposite direction.

Yes, our machines moves: X+ would be left->right and Y+ to be front->back.


>> Le 25 mai 2012 à 20:20, Bryan Lambrecht <bryan.l...@gmail.com> a
>> écrit :
>>
>> One of your axies are inverted, you need to find what axis it was mirrored
>> about, and reverse the stepper wires for that axis.

If it was that situation, then that axis would not make "home".
Re: Reprap mirror racribeiro 5/28/12 8:55 AM
Hi all,

That was one of my first configurations... I just placed a "-" on the correct axis on config file of R2C2 and it started multiplying movement by "-1"!

Another thing that may be a bit confusing is defining what is point "X=0,Y=0". From what we see at ReplicatorG, this point is on the left "near" part of the printing table. But if you "define for your self" that this point is another one then everything would be ok on manual movement but the print would be mirrored as you describe.

Look at your printer, where is your "0,0"?


 <-- x -->
+---------+
|0       1| ^
|         | |
|  prusa  | y
|         | |
|2       3| v
+---------+
     ^
   (you)


If it is on "1" or "2", you are ok. If it is on "0" or "3", then it is mirrored.

I've choosen this configuration:

- <-- x --> +
+---------+ +
|         | ^
|         | |
|  prusa  | y
|         | |
|H        | v
+---------+ -
     ^
    (me)

H = 0,0 (home position)

Rui

2012/5/28 Jorge Pinto <jpi...@bitbox.pt>

Reprap mirror ncx94 5/29/12 2:41 AM
Hi,
There is a pic of my prusa, viewed from the front. Hitting the + button for each axis gives me:
- on the x axis: left to right
- on the y axis: front to back
- on the z axis: down to up.
My home pos is the back left angle of the bed :)
Thank you
Nicolas


Re: Reprap mirror racribeiro 5/29/12 6:36 AM
Hi Nicolas,
 
As I said on a e-mail before... that "back left" home position will give you mirrored prints (unless X is on the table is Y is on the extruder carriage)... change it to "front left" or "back right" home position...
 
On your photo I've found 2 things:
1. the X belt pulley isn't parallel (the top and the bottom). Be aware that on the edges of the print (near the maximum minimum/maximom of X), the print will be a bit skewed and not in scale because of that "non parallel" belt.
2. your fan is just standing there, isn't it? you don't have a duct or anything... Now that I've seen yours I think I will do the same. What is your opinion? Does it work better for you?
 
Rui

2012/5/29 Nicolas Chaslot <nc...@laposte.net>
Envoyé de mon iPhone

Re: Reprap mirror ncx94 5/29/12 9:58 AM
Hi,
What do you mean for the x belt?
Yep, just standing here, works quite well!


Envoyé de mon iPhone
Re: Reprap mirror bobc 5/29/12 11:04 AM
Ok, thanks to your diagrams I think I have now got my brain around this!

By way of recap: it is possible to set up a machine so that the axes appear to work "normally", but in fact the geometry is reversed compared to the geometry of the print model. (A kind of anti-universe). Whereas the brain can cope with the reversal, the software doesn't! I have seen that on some Prusa Mendels the endstop is placed at the front, and combined with the ease of reversing wiring on steppers motors leads to all sorts of confusion. It is possible to reverse both and think you have a good config, but it's reversed for the printing.

In the regular RepRap Mendel, the home position is set at (0,0,0) when the mechanism hits the endstops. Therefore the endstops should be positioned at the negative of the axes AND where the X-Y orientation is the same as the "real" Universe. For Mendel, this would usuallly be endstops at the left (X) and back (Y). The Y endstop is at the back because the table moves in the opposite direction to the extruder.

The R2C2 has two additional features to allow for the endstop to be placed at the positive end of an axis, and for the home position to be something other than zero, but it does not have the ability to invert an axis. I added these features because in my Rapman/Darwin type printer, the endstop is at the +Y end, and for compatibility with legacy GCode generator (0,0) is in the centre of the print area.

The home_direction config variables tell the firmware which direction to move to find the endstop. For a normally configured Mendel has described above, these are all -1. The other feature is the home_pos variables; these specify the position to set when the endstops are reached. For normally configured Mendel these are all zero.

This is the layout I use for my Rapman: (E=endstop, H=home pos, 0,0 = origin)

 - <- X -> +
  E 
 +---------+ +
 |H        | ^
 |         | |
E|   0,0   | Y
 |         | |
 |         | v
 +---------+ -
     ^
    (me)

So the R2C2 can be configured to have endstop at either end of an axis, and to place 0,0 anywhere inside the printable area. This should remove the need to invert any axes.

For the Mendel case, if endstop is at the back then set home_direction_y = -1, home_pos_y = 0.
If endstop is at the front then set home_direction_y = 1, home_pos_y = (maximum Y) - you will need to measure the max Y value.
Then, wire the stepper motor to also move in a direction consistent with the config.

This topic really needs video ;)
Re: Reprap mirror ncx94 5/29/12 11:44 AM
Yeah, I think a video would be great because i'm a bit lost with what I must do.
Let's try to understand so.

Envoyé de mon iPhone
Re: Reprap mirror bobc 5/29/12 1:35 PM
Here is a video of Mendel homing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy98C8Dge_o&feature=related

I also attempted to draw a diagram, not sure if it worked. What you can't tell easily from the diagram is that the table moves to the back for Y-, and to the front for Y+ direction, but perhaps  the video illustrates that.
Re: Reprap mirror ncx94 5/29/12 1:43 PM
Ok, so what I can see from your drawing is that my y axis endstop is setted wrong.. Mine is putted to the front. That's why it works correctly manually: motors works the right way, only the positioning of the home on y axis is reversed..

Envoyé de mon iPhone
<mendel.png>
Re: Reprap mirror bobc 5/29/12 2:04 PM
If you change the position of the endstop then you must also reverse the motor connection! Otherwise the homing won't work (assuming you are using the standard config file).
Re: Reprap mirror ncx94 5/29/12 2:14 PM
Or just change the direction to find the switch no?

Envoyé de mon iPhone
Re: Reprap mirror bobc 5/29/12 2:30 PM
If you like, but you then also need to set home_pos_y to the right value.

Basically there are 5 things that need to match. If you change one thing, all of the other 4 things need to be made consistent.
Re: R2C2 freeze StarterKid 6/20/12 2:04 PM
Hey guys,

I remembered that I wanted to report if everything worked, and here is my actual status report:

After some struggeling about getting the right resistors for the extruder I gave up on that and ordered NiChrom heating wire. I cut it until my multimeter says it has about 22 Ohm and everything works fine.

Thanks for your help guys :)


Am Sonntag, 6. Mai 2012 21:46:59 UTC+2 schrieb StarterKid:
Hey there,

I set up my MendelMax this weekend, plugged the r2c2 and everything was fine.
I did some checks and calibrated everything, nothing special to that point, except for the temperature sensor in the Extruder. It was fluctuating from 27°C up to 70°C, but the metal still was cold. 
The other temperature sensor stayed on about 19°C (Room-temp). Even after exchanging the two sensors it was the same.
After that I tried to print, but after the restart of the board it does not do anything :/
The counter in replicatorg stopped and nothing happens. Even though everything worked nice manually (heat up, motors, sensors,...).

I bought the StarterKit of R2C2 and made a Video of what happend.
I hope somebody can help 

Jan
More topics »