| Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Andrew David Wong | 30/11/16 15:56 | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512 Dear Qubes Community, Since the initial launch [01] of Qubes OS back in April 2010, work on Qubes has been funded in several different ways. Originally a pet project, it was first supported by Invisible Things Lab [02] (ITL) out of the money we earned on various R&D and consulting contracts. Later, we decided that we should try to commercialize it. Our idea, back then, was to commercialize Windows AppVM support. Unlike the rest of Qubes OS, which is licensed under GPLv2, we thought we would offer Windows AppVM support under a proprietary license. Even though we made a lot of progress on both the business and technical sides of this endeavor, it ultimately failed. Luckily, we got a helping hand from the Open Technology Fund [03] (OTF), which has supported [04] the project for the past two years. While not a large sum of money in itself, it did help us a lot, especially with all the work necessary to improve Qubes' user interface, documentation, and outreach to new communities. Indeed, the (estimated) Qubes user base has grown [05] significantly over that period. Thank you, OTF! But Qubes is more than just a nice UI: it's an entirely new, complex system -- a system that aims to change the game of endpoint security. Consequently, it requires expertise covering a wide spectrum of topics: from understanding low-level aspects of hardware and firmware (and how they translate to the security of a desktop system), to UI design, documentation writing, and community outreach. Even if we consider only the "security research" aspect of Qubes, this area alone easily scales beyond the capabilities of a single human being. In order to continue to deliver on its promise of strong desktop security, Qubes must retain and expand its core team, and this requires substantial funding. At this point, we believe the only realistic way to achieve this is through commercialization, supplemented by community funding. Commercialization ================= We're taking a different approach to commercialization this time. Building on the success of the recent Qubes 3.2 release, which has been praised by users for its stability and overall usability, we will begin offering commercial editions (licenses) of Qubes OS to corporate customers. We believe that the maturity of Qubes, combined with its powerful new management stack [06], makes it ripe for adoption by any corporation with significant security needs. Commercial editions of Qubes OS will be customized to meet special corporate requirements. For example, two features that might be particularly attractive to corporate customers are (1) "locking down" dom0 in order to separate the user and administrator roles and (2) integrating our local management stack with a corporation's remote management infrastructure. These are both examples of features that our developers are capable of implementing now, on Qubes 3.2. We plan to partner with one to three corporate clients in order to run a pilot program throughout the first half of 2017. After it has been successfully completed, we'll then widen our offer to more corporate customers and, ultimately, to small business customers. Our main constraint is the scalability required to cover each additional client. Hence, we plan to focus on larger customers first. Let there be no misunderstanding: Qubes OS will always remain open source. We anticipate that the majority of our commercialization efforts will involve the creation of custom Salt configurations, and perhaps writing a few additional apps and integration code. In the event that any corporate features require reworking the core Qubes code, that new code will remain open source. We considered many other ways of attempting to commercialize Qubes before arriving at this model. One possibility that some of our users have inquired about is that we sell dedicated Qubes hardware (i.e. laptops). However, there are a number of challenges here, both in terms of making the hardware trustworthy enough to merit our "seal of approval", and from a business and logistics perspective. For these reasons, we don't plan to pursue this option in the immediate future. Community funding ================= Unfortunately, the financial necessity of shifting our priorities to commercial clients will mean that we have less time to work on features that benefit the wider, security-minded open source community, which has been our focus for the past seven years. This deeply saddens us. (We all use Qubes on our personal computers too!) However, the reality is that ITL can't afford to sustain the open source development of Qubes for much longer. We're running out of time. In an attempt to keep the open source development of Qubes going, we've teamed up with Open Collective [07], which makes it easier to donate to the Qubes project. Now, in addition to our Bitcoin fund [08], we can also accept donations via credit card. ITL will not benefit from of any of the money donated through Open Collective. Instead, the funds will be paid directly to individual developers who have been hired to work on the open source edition of Qubes. With the help of our community, we hope eventually to build a nonprofit organization that will ensure the long-term future of Qubes as an open source operating system that is freely available to all -- one of the few operating systems that places the security of its users above all else. If you are a user of Qubes and want to help us continue working on it, please donate now [07]. Those who have contributed will be publicly recognized on our Open Collective [07] page (if they so choose). Organizations that support the Qubes project will be publicly recognized on our Partners page [09] (again, if they so choose). If you are interested in supporting Qubes with significant resources, whether as an individual or on behalf of an organization, we ask that you please contact us directly [10], since donating through Open Collective entails significant administrative overhead. Thank you for your continued support. Together, we can ensure that Qubes is around to secure our digital lives for many years to come. --The Qubes team [01] https://blog.invisiblethings.org/2010/04/07/introducing-qubes-os.html [02] https://invisiblethingslab.com [03] https://www.opentech.fund/ [04] https://www.opentech.fund/project/qubes-os [05] https://www.qubes-os.org/counter/ [06] https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2015/12/14/mgmt-stack/ [07] https://opencollective.com/qubes-os [08] https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2016/07/13/qubes-distributed-fund/ [09] https://www.qubes-os.org/partners/ [10] <busi...@qubes-os.org> You can also view this announcement on the Web at: https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2016/11/30/qubes-commercialization/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYP2b6AAoJENtN07w5UDAwJ4kQAMClOUh/vmxWr0Hb7ENgeBAq xLQQrKuUBeK5yZ7+Jpeoqc/ni8VsZ8vwbXWayHLWHk1IMn22OMn/cd66T6tljt0x UdcZ4Ng4nxl0j8sN0Ycw4iEx29LRwPs4m0EOPPEYRaqql+QNEPjs8mItE/vRtkd3 KTudISYCflBwFB2SlVn8NHd8gNbaV/y8oy7gRLCpzEtf3rU4WAf2jKdRpGWx3RFx uqYLJ/vfEOBs2SctsuNLzm+8eX7hZ6DOBQNBGgAtdLMnaWqBBA3uEjmwjGbNL2jm BGVYUnPyKIgCcGHGuInCgRb8vatrV6Vesduw9IRbQHB2BOQT41pdhlbtbPUkOSu4 HXn4j9/w3TXE4Qnvq5EeA3VTYM9cnf4COQ4XuaXNxUX9ojiuRgFqNxQ1vHw98rST nsS//+9AoL2PQmElunWwhPe/srWDcODZ/iVDd2uafc0gEdNTYUHzDSQkhhd5GOEM 2xe9zMfR8m+mpXTX5/ObVbsQ61EXUw6YYb9IH0vBvnG6QUSRe6xzXKVK8h/9JaHt 5rhQxb+njEcovZ9cLadwA9IIZP4FJhYU0cvXpRbPSHueFRf7j4JfplClPEnL2vEC NqG/lcgCKjA6tmk2x+CXU0rue35OwzjMUaWq8YZ0MmX0fc+/MFw121LpBu+0Ke0H VOFj+L9DRea6g7k0OPtI =3Y/D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
| Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | John | 30/11/16 23:57 | >Commercial editions of Qubes OS will be customized to meet special corporate >We plan to partner with one to three corporate clients in order to run a pilot Does this mean that Qubes will somehow become networkable or will it still only be for a single device? |
| Re: [qubes-devel] Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Ilpo Järvinen | 01/12/16 11:41 | On Wed, 30 Nov 2016, Andrew David Wong wrote:I suppose this implies there is unlikely to be support for multi-user environment for a shared computer any time soon except for commercial users (e.g., within a family with one of the user effectively having a sort of "administator role" and the other users would have less priviledges)? If yes, are the core devs/maintainers going to actively oppose inclusion of feature(s) which would make the multi-user case easier/feasible if it is provided by somebody from community? I suppose it could be seen overlapping functionality and therefore rejected on technical grounds (or it might be even thought to deincentivize from getting the commercial version). I understand the economical realities, so please don't take this as complaining of any sort, I'm just asking what is the expected position here. -- i. |
| Re: [qubes-users] Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Francesco | 01/12/16 14:33 | The people able to donate enough to maintain this project are hardly on this mailing list. They are elsewhere and probably do no even know that Qubes exists at all. But they have the money and want to use this money for some good purpose before they die. It is worth looking for them. But this is professional work. It is something difficult to do in an amateurish way. Professional work need to be paid. So it is an investment hoping to get a result. But it may be worth for some reasons: 1. Once you get a commitment it may work long term and this is obviously interesting. 2. Our quest for security is something easy to understand and sell, particularly to rich old people. Anyone seeing a video of a Joanna's conference would be impressed even if unable to understand technical details. 3. You already got a financing from Open Technology Fund and this is an authoritative card confirming that somebody obviously very expert endorses you. 4. You probably have many other distinguished endorsements that confirm that your efforts are worth substantial help 5. The problem of hackers and governments stealing data is so obvious and well known that everybody already understands it with no need to convince. To have an idea of a possible professional partner to get this done, or simply to understand better what it means, please look at this google search: https://www.google.com/search?q=donation+marketing&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 good luck Fran -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- |
| Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | pixel fairy | 01/12/16 15:15 | So this is basically support contracts with some custom coding thrown in? The next step, probably scary to some users, is corporate channels. Have you contacted dell and hp yet? either way, im happy for this and hope it works! |
| Re: [qubes-devel] Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Marek Marczykowski-Górecki | 01/12/16 16:27 | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256 That's right. We (as core Qubes OS team) don't plan to work on this anytime soon in open source version. I think both use cases still differ significantly. One is mostly about protecting system configuration (maybe with addition of remote attestation, or sth like this?), the other one is about protecting data of other user(s). Some technical means may be the same, but I think not all. And I think it's ok to accept contributions about one use case, even if somehow overlap with the other. Of course if done properly. Also note that the above mentioned examples are just examples. Actual features will depend on customers needs. But to answer more generic question: we can't stop anyone from implementing the same features as in commercial version, and announcing it anywhere. This is how open source works (which is great that we have this freedom!). But we'd like to ask the community to not compromise the business model - as explained above I think the use cases are different and this shouldn't conflict with the goals of Qubes OS as the open source project. - -- Best Regards, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki Invisible Things Lab A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJYQMAHAAoJENuP0xzK19csjrkH/0hiyaEPYhPH/crEBATApFuE +WX9umAKibeRbotaEDkY6o9vm92zoVKY1pSewbWMgXxQMKwIjCFfrsBYSH+PRYUD Id9ES0uARuXMxNnEtZ2+B43DLngMOXtbZfb3LtGG4dq1WRFMRfZyUM82lNq+hPq8 OET+847PPdJ36TOZs+FgdeyW9xfFdmGU7mKavsv/iaunNou68NEOlxd6WEP27beA w1S/5j8LyiOCfUPwGhVoKIVYCbGzAkE1RlJaSR8iwKe/Dl6PYNkjtB2WKVSfeIHL cx3JIXiUP4z0skzXW3HoxhUYeEycDZtSTruD0E8PPcoHodBblXOfmpjCXBSc6nM= =KiiL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
| Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Kopimi Security | 02/12/16 11:17 | On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 12:56:11 AM UTC+1, Andrew David Wong wrote: I'm excited about this, and wish to support Qubes. So that's what I'm thinking, maybe it would be good for the "evangelization" of Qubes to make some very simple, brief, and to-the-point videos and howto's?
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| Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Andrew David Wong | 02/12/16 15:13 | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512 Yes, certainly. Would you be willing to help us with that? :) - -- Andrew David Wong (Axon) Community Manager, Qubes OS https://www.qubes-os.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYQgAXAAoJENtN07w5UDAw9cYP/1iv81S1ooD5g3nyqyXbJXHE mI//1hR4aK1lw1dn4vqssWUUoUN1yuNKcVsRFxXZsWchWYp5p6rFkAanB5muMxfv /kLUK/OwE/+Y0AqgZ8xlQfqfpemF7WgOkQNb8tCVZtFGu/sVykFb+oH+r5gu2zES PJQ3K2giK01xBCnP7JRlsO9/Ywq1KocEzHBSF1JcU7gwfWkuZLMJyAiVLpMxv9wK jqS2ywFEMxr44/33+1EFKE4YZeDVBjHkcK4jhaENZMRaDA3vXr3KIk9gPSzXf58/ /f0BgUvB2zO2BoCXiAUwethTVEjK9lQh7Wu3b0/e81pe4ioQBcW/jTCok7FyNfDu yItNm24iBf06pcHUAdX5ZiR0vkH+H9prtGKKA/WZDOzV7KST0Fm2a1yqfnxnMzi9 oVsMq4SJ5wKpc4jGwRK3kNcXHwdVeebEzqaKVH1CxeHQnkJzer7Zc6IgwHxI4Tmu ENEnIoiAhukCIvGr1gvw3xM2DxUb03M+M9WhvBc+NYc92x8h7i5fPHA9vTSuUz9f x8+IdIc/ohhKXCN7LC+Wxn5IUqQk+TVcCBeglmGK5cAsWyUEAM2IrBgcxYMyn4ff dkiUOBpRcPloBrtDCbsED8Uk6hi4/Eo7exsw0kRCw0V0ZSeLlV52HiUhEE+qA88w 7YmI9P0h3CmJJF4SVkXc =iLi5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
| Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | pixel fairy | 02/12/16 15:55 | On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 6:13:35 PM UTC-5, Andrew David Wong wrote: > > So that's what I'm thinking, maybe it would be good for the "evangelization" of Qubes to make some very simple, brief, and to-the-point videos and howto's? theres already a nice one in english linked from the front page of the qubes-os site. |
| Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | pixel fairy | 02/12/16 15:55 | and one in french. now we just need more languages covered. |
| unk...@googlegroups.com | 03/12/16 05:05 | <Ce message a été supprimé.> | |
| Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Yethal | 03/12/16 05:07 | This is a wonderful idea, there are about 20k Qubes users out there, if we al give you guys an equivalent of Windows license price you should be set for a millenium. I'd also love to see some Qubes merchandise available to buy so I can up my swag game while simultaneously contributing funds. Also, you forgot to post this to qubes-announce Andrew. |
| Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Kopimi Security | 03/12/16 06:14 | Absolutely! Please let me know if this is something that I could help out with. |
| Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | cooloutac | 03/12/16 19:46 | Just don't get corrupted! haha But really I think this is great! I wish all the success in the world. I still think its the future. I would for sure by merch(I still want a sticker) too like an above user, and i'm look into credit card info. But ya, If you got a good sales guy to go to some small to midsize companies and give a presentation, how can anyone refuse!!!??? This sounds exciting to me. |
| Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | cooloutac | 03/12/16 19:47 | On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 10:46:39 PM UTC-5, raah...@gmail.com wrote: oh and like Fran said don't be ashamed to name drop everyone and everything right off the bat. |
| Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Zbigniew Łukasiak | 04/12/16 00:08 | On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 6:13:35 PM UTC-5, Andrew David Wong wrote: > > So that's what I'm thinking, maybe it would be good for the "evangelization" of Qubes to make some very simple, brief, and to-the-point videos and howto's? I am new to Qubes - just installed it on my computer. I can note the problems that I encounter. Where to send this? Z. |
| Re: [qubes-users] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Andrew David Wong | 04/12/16 00:37 | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 2016-12-03 05:07, Grzesiek Chodzicki wrote:Thanks! The merchandise ideas has been discussed internally, but we've decided not to pursue that option at this time. Didn't forget; qubes-announce is strictly for QSBs and new releases: https://www.qubes-os.org/mailing-lists/#qubes-announce iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYQ9WhAAoJENtN07w5UDAw9pEQAKdkd/X7l9SwDJHHaWhVHDFp CSe0lFuLCbnjQiPH34ygV7oRGAoi5Tmqg/AEnxczpmy9hNZ/TYYHx85h1nwa3T7Z hhE+8jJgPHsvtpBV37GZwSl/IG0YyUInQ0yaEwCSKFDNGSkb5kn/mWdF3745QgNe tIn5cyHF5skswcFwxh+6TJFnIN9sAiHbDvqHNbNb5lyFShxyBklt55hmybzZ+2Y8 qopYmMR4MYYRBuzeKx4PPqfBF4+uEHEA9jQzpQBxclpSY4MPGOvgt0gBs+OPBWLG VGdgcL2yzZIz5667YEO1NVu3FIlKH0B7128tcYEBV5wGTi0KNud7T7kVNSP5Qbvz BTbaYpri8U/I+i1djHb9aHXkGzMn7oXznwOgCfFJ31YQivjym/E3c/j7ChRqNg0d FcEQ3Qljz/Qn7LgO94Oj074sFTgBcjKb7pudfByMw1LJrdskCsdiDAGk2u30bLXP /0l9QRC046NfEjEhVFHZqBpEqEoPiXMDizIy6antlyZx5BrlnIOv1iqETV4gUxaa WKZx1GTWFZISsGqhPIjGtiO+WLDvhC0QoAzU0dBgxM+4/W3WmP64V1bv4PB5Achf eYX46kT8SDMLJSVGlD7GQJYpVdbdAUZJfL1TgVTu1+l2xqWRV9F7pzRs5XopmQOX X33rxAH+Bhc4yM7i41Uv =GeRw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
| Re: [qubes-users] Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Andrew David Wong | 04/12/16 00:37 | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 2016-12-03 06:14, Kopimi Security wrote: >> On 12/02/16 11:17, Kopimi Security wrote: >>> I'm excited about this, and wish to support Qubes.Yes. Please take a look here: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/doc-guidelines/ iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYQ9XZAAoJENtN07w5UDAwATEP/263uVXxXi7NxUjPJHpgExfN L+FFMkt9IcDDwJCmaBVxqOuZOAKYq4EzgFOt6n4QXObJVUgfu1i8WmmMVpBRhQ9q swVfjTKQH7hsICT5xRriLD8erDm0NzEB2lRnv0kvhJVlFHWHiv5/UrZ6S2+v3GmV wTjfTtaptgyJ5HMEK6Wh2OjYktKSNEf9EAU6CEKHtR7JLawRIvYBERPOdHeUS4Sh FOsOSy2ke1jITX39YXLzx3Yv8pd/56KDUjArjqmtUWsndt9YJvLjU6aSu2z+FhiZ aubpamsTsUtd9znbt/YSQcK+hyVQjk15QQtEqCTU04A3mhKKkYQKDM6YZBxxF7EO 2XRSxB29fKD8OqZiHwHgF8KC8EPxZwkfWYiR6CwPCoaT3u/KYyWjPdWBUcEcF94q l8fzBPCbC/jAm7/tBUTSiHjB6xroElW6GHTr/fsL8Zee+15gfB12kiL+dtsFvpFA FYxV0Or7f4HKXrGoOQOBqxOHWJXDptw+iMyClpDRhuhSu38krieLQbt0nK9xhdny AnXLzLP149+jTzKKjfvLg9JEwtZfKErrPFqez+BTKuSubzDofRi5sUquRJUbFeAi QbbTSCeLm1oQnq8/Eb/Z+C9tj+3ruyuFISIAIrLUulCbsSkynVoo5KwfBxNQ/ukF vGxZRIhSWUO0837609OI =FFM1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
| Re: [qubes-users] Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Andrew David Wong | 04/12/16 00:42 | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----Please take a look at this page: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/reporting-bugs/ iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYQ9bQAAoJENtN07w5UDAwsxcQAIm/HcgRTL78y6xXxVry8uC0 pLN5qR++46uuGQ+5pIT9puuiSZ0ik9pXx0kuCbVPJAWDnD63hfP7l2so74eifaLp 7Z0ZFq/6iR20+s9Cw8zqhkwhtS0eLIZMt+xcLzcWJ77Dk+4OT8j3wYfWxROXZ99y sLsyp3EQJYC1XOpEeP+r9DnELvwGkhPMEjlQpLh1zQ27JuLhrziYdiNCAYKNYxVb jx2Vsa2BAThXY6J0wIeQdB2sqb3018uB2g69MEyxMdaRhVz1FiMbWXmuFDOBCV7q FJlZsB/+6xVeZKtzqOGJ+Z8zwhENunPsosEuYTJvMwvGNDlAhCqJvbDtniCyLn6c kbWE2KPFOK+WJZ47wq2IU1a7w732MKSouv5IorY0Be3yaa+XQBvezkgs78hooKIe InPQGV5yyAyhIsOpH1g0H8I3ULsRMqXzW8FKZdpgCRwNt4b79hHzJ7i1rj39tZoZ YHfIHjuaExgLLHza1n/9tGh4u64i01G+u3Owf7pu/u3fTCeHUFgvzhixW4ce7MaD ZXSy1p5lJePdjWxMmhGYeu+brtM7UxO5eIrDzfmxBlBMImc7kByZKrV7owQQpYW0 7JNsWuC4i8KmhBunR6fJzm9tdzFKkpcEEH6WMflAtOF4ovsdioTO0dCDhrfr6J+R QP2R/A6LHWwM1Igf+cXr =gSbS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
| Re: [qubes-users] Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Andrew David Wong | 04/12/16 02:46 | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----On 2016-12-04 02:27, Zbigniew Łukasiak wrote: > On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 3:41 AM, Andrew David Wong <a...@qubes-os.org> wrote:> Well - this is not about bugs but about surprises. From my experiences > with other OS projects I learned that people quickly forget what was > difficult at the beginning. It is seasoned developers who make > documentation who have already internalized many details - so the docs > often lack information. It is useful to include the newbies in > writing the docs. - surely they cannot write the answers - but they > can note the questions :) And they can also mark the areas of > difficulties. This is the kind of feedback that I had in mind. > > Cheers, > Zbigniew > I understand. Please feel free to help us by contributing to the documentation by following these guidelines: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/doc-guidelines/ P.S. - Please keep the mailing list CCed, unless there's a need for privacy: https://www.qubes-os.org/mailing-lists/#specific-rules-and-notes iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYQ/QBAAoJENtN07w5UDAwrFkP/joAsy9FmBT+Ik/PHak1gV7Y NbvbSoTxrc2AABqIHZzY1FvwJ24qn70N/klIYBN9NlkjZH3jGyt1+z+hBOqMzAnG CpPC+z1xetyH5fwVgGqL4bffzcW6M9hfcN7oImTeyI7L3vGdhs57aCMVc0a8BOsN xiDFYTGyiROjkfpu4+12pzQVaB2IT2vRHAnUQOO8yw3aFKAtcY0+uVp11zinLtsq KPIehVlouXgpAHcopq2YpzQc7qBr06WUe31modMF+PKGXGDA0MNaQxTRi5M26BX5 IbVMHC1o4J7/6bqYZEmrljpX8GHk7hMeodiLWhzs7j9KtA1TMVSCwgFOGNXbNffh C2olBHvvgyEYxRxS9RslNEZa7wiXgliPZjwMhNpfOmj773J7t31irwqlrGMnK5c0 0DChEWsTPQdZfqy0x+QAEr5K7Fwj8pdxzAR0HeplYXusyitUNFVC/3bmliZv0mmI yFSyW7rfQDySDJuxAu0rPGTX62mqplr2HGdsfwoy9V3KF42ZQs4V2rMuWLMkuzAZ PiezOPf4klJnL/0uokCV0nHoFrPMcn3a8ocnOo4OHEZ2+OGKMW6ZQND+XQ0NNa1p MWOQOTaXG8KVglkwAQsktj/P5H2siZBs9z77/br/LtGKbdQfqultEGQZDK2EPVSQ fwDrViAzt0IpmPeDpumt =JKJ2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
| Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Lorenzo Lamas | 04/12/16 08:04 | It's a bit saddening to hear priorities are shifting to commercial clients, but for the rest it's great news, a good way to keep Qubes going! > In an attempt to keep the open source development of Qubes going, we've teamedGood to hear, but I would recommend adding more payment options like Paypal so it's easier for users in other parts of the world, where credit card is not a widely used, to support you. |
| Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Patrick Bouldin | 04/12/16 13:50 | Andrew, I'm very willing to donate - and well noted that you all will continue to update the core changes in the public domain. I do understand the why, the what and the dollars for the change - however, will there be anyone left to work on the core, for the sake of the core? Just wondering where the donation dollars will be going. I ask because I agree with the person noting 20,000 current licenses. If we all sent in $100 US each then that's $2 million US. Is it possible to set up some separation of funding to ensure each group is getting what they want? Set up the public funding better with separate marketing, and let that fund improvements for the public domain (not just maintenance and slight core improvements) - and then fund your corporate goals using the methods you mentioned. As a relatively new user I'm concerned about investing more time in this and it not progressing. Thanks, |
| Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Andrew David Wong | 05/12/16 00:53 | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 2016-12-04 13:50, Patrick Bouldin wrote:As mentioned in the announcement, all donations made via Open Collective will be paid directly to developers who have been hired to work on the open source edition of Qubes. ITL will not see or benefit from any of that money. All from donated funds should be transparently visible to everyone on our Open Collective page. Does this address your concern? iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYRSrmAAoJENtN07w5UDAwUqIP/RYxE5CfTfzfYh7c3g3KSid/ x4o04p36NtNEvycrQ3GrjVl1o36BRG1VRxC2/IGT2zJVFrL6hRcwAfq2EAW3nITZ sgVHtblyr45y4sKvm0ZXCBnIGIt04yo/6gy40enLuy7lz4HHY5xXsyxvui1M7/zW LyLgWdIcNbBhhwYz/8sCp5yZxJX7a5gMiumNxa74b6fwPa7bMi83w67k1JDbduVJ VO54Kkf/JTc28BWdEIGRYJ/k+1APibRq6RNRbTCGs6JQWHK2Z8ZIW3a7HBr8eW38 u2N+BSmzF1iKzlcBimK6K25ERQRaQuW0q5BdfjEmHKDarMrBQ2YnAyVUjBbLDdDy tcMlt9M3xbnlwnXP62S7/2qdmqKl40/tJ/Y61kK3uVhaetJ/U2AOVkQI+f1CFKGy s1eT7/gSm2C9oafcFzPWWvRzB9HMFDUpU7gQ6+kvxx1PJtJx4J2/oGiz+VVp1cQ5 1LjwZMVaDfrmHlAiN4y/UM4LLK7pWkLrbUhBSh6GvO/AIyd7+XA+Y3Ps/gtiKegd VoYLpQ64MBdAw4YOfcx9+IRVtAGGRhHMjY+pu91SJpNJ7rCJKHbvuhCEF3X+Yq+0 uVxivVOOCB7KNjqqFrn6MpTY4r0/u9Pdk0YAfMVVRKcICHRUu5MwIrCc9BMduAMG ocLaz94qaDRirvjNZJRR =0cWy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
| Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Patrick Bouldin | 05/12/16 09:18 | On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 6:56:11 PM UTC-5, Andrew David Wong wrote: Hi Andrew, ok - after reading it a couple more times I got the total gist. Not sure who all was hired but hopefully there will be sufficient marketing efforts to get them funded long term. Thanks, Dallas, TX |
| Re: [qubes-users] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Yethal | 05/12/16 14:01 | My bad then. |
| Re: [qubes-users] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Andrew David Wong | 05/12/16 17:54 | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512 On 2016-12-05 09:18, Patrick Bouldin wrote: > Hi Andrew, ok - after reading it a couple more times I got the total gist. Not sure who all was hired but hopefully there will be sufficient marketing efforts to get them funded long term. > > Thanks, > Patrick > > Dallas, TX > Just to clarify, I'm not aware of anyone having been newly hired specifically in connection with this announcement. Rather, I think the idea is that any funds donated through Open Collective will be used to pay individual developers to work on the open source edition of Qubes, whether they're developers who are already working on Qubes (who are listed on the Team page) or new developers hired in the future. - -- Andrew David Wong (Axon) Community Manager, Qubes OS https://www.qubes-os.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYRhpWAAoJENtN07w5UDAw7IoP/AptSAnCHu0tA6Ojhlx2iVHd ux6Qmt7edr8EFsrQLF+nAEluyWvt2yF48sFYHyX6a7EX+WQq5sRFJ+c0xkiLRjql l8giDlrPs1EfxVptdSYWZJh7L1qnO80CmaxXBK3mkwtCQHvktOqW5xFsKFYwC6Ze K69hqUD/TPRfq30fW+c4L1TMVt2K9le5XxU+djKSIpOwqUTxisSIy1yvv6r19o3B MiRgAj1VTl+NxHc7K8PzJbJMOZ5v3s+T5CoBy6fYYmntWkt1vBKuFjjTRoRtXRqt 56DSUnxRv1DKbO/r8d860kjDhxjFkLy4ZFo3BodxtqArOzmZITDu4V8Vhc47I1hf V/zfPGWZGYOS4zGcxkRzGJugnEAVV36a5/grCILihD2M8zxp8cAQOt/z20ryeMZ3 pYO43YFw2WZ2dNlBX55ph/gNWwHvIKpIJZN+NEk10/NuCiHnXP7BKYzIIcWylX7K ofD1kTH7WG1XxHI+73rYZqXQXjxNilFSkwZYz2JXmacKp/ap/dMwJabeRnPjv/vo 8fbwFF2dpQ+iydM9vKfaq0upCuwXAEeaQLkjlKhkak5xp08dAxjmBIVrGrjOuXQ/ 5BoESHkYjgiZLhoiOKngeeNNgN65y43dQDJ3PpP4NybueAgF+zlUta7SiZizcVqj wJ+h8ZpUezefJ7oi0ArX =ymxe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
| Re: [qubes-users] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Andrew David Wong | 05/12/16 17:59 | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----On 2016-12-05 14:01, Grzesiek Chodzicki wrote: > W dniu niedziela, 4 grudnia 2016 09:37:01 UTC+1 użytkownik Andrew David Wong napisał: >> On 2016-12-03 05:07, Grzesiek Chodzicki wrote: >>> Also, you forgot to post this to qubes-announce Andrew. >>> >> Didn't forget; qubes-announce is strictly for QSBs and new releases: >> >> https://www.qubes-os.org/mailing-lists/#qubes-announce >> > My bad then. > No worries. We know that some people are only willing to receive very infrequent messages about critical Qubes announcements, and we want those people to be able to trust qubes-announce for that purpose. We know that if we start sending too many messages through qubes-announce, we'll drive those readers away, so it's very important to us to keep our promise by sending announcements only for QSBs and new Qubes OS releases. iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYRht/AAoJENtN07w5UDAwpNcP/2A3YZloArvt8+d4JLxNeNTk HiMjxAQE2h4SIUQSESjprFi52NUCpTFo/81UcC1pT6dHMPSWKHAZuOytChSnBqHI A86vWbLP92uoqVJKuiGyhu5nAVP9EQBnKMV8ki3GbMzABNjeCIGvpuoGY3clDrIY mc3yS9ArAKrPK99Ovkeuhbi80xrwHCjLyxAD6N0StF53VDsG22Au1mVGuDKwJqWk isZKwyFl/9IG2LgTnNcIjWdv+SDGEi/g1HF0BcUcoG+rxa5O2tLlxJze9e5mdFo/ 6eaIjOrJmNEDZYFRpzNzG7aI3Z3P1td2GpqgKMezsvN7r7ls7RsYY5hnwfvsfmKJ 9YtKC7ALZxAmob+x9bUYWbRum/si7ob777nawAmTBj6irN7FCGrYRxQLFPLolkcm Z9Sf4xhTF9WwLit0zSxSK5HqRRT9cfHpj21c1vN3Xb0kaBjSZlve4CmxGcOLiaK5 XYaRkqAWJ0wcf5ayMDE2Pkze1q3ICjHD39tr5onsMEOj3+815sipHhvZn+5Holp5 nw+RHdACo7QbJUv4Fl0QakgdysXIcNJrSkIgp3WZ/1pTuWEf8te9VGJrDNcos9Or +MvtOU9XFwH0z2eQCq1nSRucHoEcr2XKE4pA93dh/9HgbK7Ql78gXdbTK2N1BWLj 87eAVCfNsdCayrz/uVMe =q9LD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
| Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | J. Eppler | 15/12/16 07:43 | Hello, 1. have you thought about offering training, consulting and support for companies who want to use Qubes OS in their enterprise? 2. have you thought about developing commercial management solution which makes the deployment, remote administration and monitoring easy? I do not believe that developing a commercial operating system based on an open source foundation will pay off on a long run. However, I agree with you that customized tool and plugin development can provide a valuable source of income. |
| Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Andrew David Wong | 15/12/16 08:15 | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 12/15/16 07:43, je wrote:Yes, this is something we've considered. We'd prefer to focus on selling licenses rather than selling services, since this would scale better for our small team, but we also realize that we'll want to offer support (to some extent) to clients who purchase licenses. I think the Salt management stack is meant to be this, at least to some degree. I'm not sure if a more robust management solution than that would be feasible for us to develop in the short-term, or whether it would be worth the time and cost necessary to do so. Is there a specific reason you think it will not? Just curious.
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| Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | J. Eppler | 15/12/16 14:46 | 1. Selling a license provides a one time payment. Even if you are able to sell 100_000 licenses for 40 you would earn 4_000_000, but the same companies will not buy a license the year after that. Which means no constant income for the long run. Most companies will stick with one version of the product till they really have a reason to upgrade. Because, the costs for upgrading are actually higher than the costs of the license and upgrades involve the risk of causing disruption (problems during the upgrade, which blocks employees from getting their work done. Which again means I loose money). With other words Qubes OS will be stuck with one version for years. 2. The simple question is how can you sell a product which contains mostly GPL licensed code (Xen, Linux Kernel) which everybody can download and compile for free? RHEL sells support subscriptions. They offer support (10 years backporting, customer support etc.) and most important they offer a platform for other business software. The work RedHat constantly invests in their RHEL can not be easily replicated and that is the reason why CentOS is not a competitor. 3. Security is a process and not a product. As an enterprise customer I want to have constant updates and upgrades, security bulletins and other security information. I want to know if DirtyCOW, hardbleed or other security flaws affect my business if I use Qubes OS or not? Furthermore, I believe that the Qubes OS team and ITL does not understand what Qubes OS could offer on an enterprise level. |
| Re: [qubes-users] Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Leeteqxv | 16/12/16 08:06 | > --
I am working with IT strategy myself. Enterprise needs are clearly completely different from SMB, etc., so in that sense we are talking about two entirely different strategies and support models. I think Qubes should pursue both, but with two distinctly different teams in charge, with the suitable understanding of each area. As the whole industry (and society at large) continues to mature into various ways of readiiness for Open-Source things, I am quite sure that we will see a growing market among SMB's that are willing to pay for support and related peace-of-mind aspects even if it is possible to compile everything oneself. It is worth paying to "delegate" both such manual work and to avoid keeping up on the related competence race. A license is one thing, perhaps even limited in time, but an accompanying support agreement is yet another. Both are needed, IMO. There is also a middle ground here - Take for example me: I would like to offer entry-level services to clients, who all will pay the license + pay for my services. In turn, I want to be a professional-level client of Qubes support, so that I can get their backup when there is something I run into which I cannot answer or solve properly for my entry-level clientele. So I would be willing to pay a professional support membership of some sorts. I strongly believe memberships-based support services (premium communities) is a good business model for this, atop of whatever licensing scheme one may have. |
| Re: [qubes-users] Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | Francesco | 16/12/16 09:01 | Agree with that. On the license side also a mixed scheme may be interesting. For example there is an obvious need of some development directed to the very special enterprise needs. This additional enterprise development may be kept closed-source for a limited time, perhaps 5 years rather than the international 50 years of copyright law. During this limited time this additional software may be available under a non-disclosure agreement for the licensee to check it or even compile it. Best fran -- |
| Re: [qubes-users] Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts | J. Eppler | 16/12/16 09:10 | Hello Leeteqxv, if I understood you correct, what your clientele want's to have is constant improvements for Qubes OS. They don't want to compile or test things. This is a subscription based model, where people pay the Qubes OS team for their ongoing work rather than for an existing product. Furthermore, I agree with you "memberships-based support services (premium However, I think that testing new features and introducing new features can be done together with the open source community and Qubes OS could offer a LTS version for money. LTS version could focus on guaranteeing backports and fixes for specific LTS version over a period of 3 or more years, whereas the community support will only be offered for a year or till the next version of Qubes OS appears. I think the Qubes OS team should focus on getting paid for their ongoing work rather than Qubes OS as a product and the only way to do this is to offer monthly or yearly subscriptions for customers and additionally support memberships for IT professionals (consultants, IT departments etc.). |