Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter

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Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 9/5/12 8:26 AM
The subject more or less says it all. I'm using a 12V power supply and need to wire up a Step-Up Converter to it to run a the Kapton heater from the trinitylabs store. I did some digging through the threads and found a diagram for wiring up step-downs and some of the other heater options, but none specific to this wiring setup. Does a diagram for this already exist, and if so can I get a link to it?

Thanks in advance
Re: Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter M Lukasik 9/5/12 9:45 AM
Not sure what your problem is exactly, but you would just usually get two input pins and two output pins on your step up converter, so how hard can it be? ;)
Also, you can connect it to 12V directly, it probably will get as hot as you need, but would take longer time to heat up.

Marcin

Re: [MendelMax] Re: Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 9/5/12 10:12 AM
It could be that easy...I haven't been able to take a close look at the converter yet. I think I just assumed that it would be more complicated than running the output from the PS into the converter and then out to the heater.

I just wanted to make sure that there weren't any super secret steps that I was missing that would cause me to explode my new heater. ;)
> --
>  
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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Maxbots 9/5/12 7:56 PM
Not sure if we have a wiring diagram for that one yet or not, but basically it is the same as the step down.

  • Connect the Input lines of the step up to the PSU. 
  • Connect the the + line of the HBP to the + out on the step up.
  • Connect the - line on the HBP to the - pin on the D8 FET on the RAMPS board.
Let me know if you need more info.

Mike

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Jonathan Sullivan <jonny...@gmail.com> wrote:
The subject more or less says it all. I'm using a 12V power supply and need to wire up a Step-Up Converter to it to run a the Kapton heater from the trinitylabs store. I did some digging through the threads and found a diagram for wiring up step-downs and some of the other heater options, but none specific to this wiring setup. Does a diagram for this already exist, and if so can I get a link to it?

Thanks in advance

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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/16/12 3:01 PM
So 3 months later...

I finally got around to rebuilding my Y-stack and installing the 24v Kapton heater. Since I'm using a 12V PS, I hooked up the 12V to 24V step up converter. The bed seemed to be heating up pretty slowly last night, so I checked the voltage today and the converter was only outputting 19V. I cranked up the pot on the converter until I got a reading of 23V, but shortly after I noticed that the bed temp was starting to drop. I Touched the heat sinks on the converter and they were burning up, and when I checked the output voltage it had dropped down to 11.57V. Turning the Pot down has no effect so I assume the Mosfets are burned out.

Is anyone else in the group successfully using the step-up converter, and if so at what voltage?

Would dropping the money on something like this be overkill? http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Converter-Regulator-12V-Step-Up-to-24V-8A-200W-/140571118846?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20bab10cfe
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Triffid Hunter 12/16/12 4:00 PM
On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Jon Sullivan <jonny...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So 3 months later...
>
> I finally got around to rebuilding my Y-stack and installing the 24v Kapton
> heater. Since I'm using a 12V PS, I hooked up the 12V to 24V step up
> converter. The bed seemed to be heating up pretty slowly last night, so I
> checked the voltage today and the converter was only outputting 19V. I
> cranked up the pot on the converter until I got a reading of 23V, but
> shortly after I noticed that the bed temp was starting to drop. I Touched
> the heat sinks on the converter and they were burning up, and when I checked
> the output voltage it had dropped down to 11.57V. Turning the Pot down has
> no effect so I assume the Mosfets are burned out.
>
> Is anyone else in the group successfully using the step-up converter, and if
> so at what voltage?

It's been discussed previously on this group that the step-up
converters can't handle full bed power. They're pre-set to 19v since
they don't burn up at that output voltage.

> Would dropping the money on something like this be overkill?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Converter-Regulator-12V-Step-Up-to-24V-8A-200W-/140571118846?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20bab10cfe

Actually that would struggle, its absolute maximum is the rated power
of the bed so it would likely burn up just like the one you just
toasted.

What's necessary is a proper 24v >15A power supply. The stepper motor
drivers love 24v, the nozzle heater can also run from 24v with a
firmware alteration. The only issue may be your fans, and a simple
7812 will handle those, or get a LM2596-based step-down converter.


It's simply not practical to make a 12v heater at the power required
to heat the bed, the current is so high that the required wires would
be very thick, and you'd have to be extremely careful selecting
mosfets. 200w at 12v is 16.6A!

I have a 24v supply, I have dialed it up to 28v which drives 270w of
heat into my bed, for a nice quick warm-up - only 3-4 minutes for ABS
temperatures.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Misha 12/16/12 5:11 PM
I was able to get mine up to around ~21 V after implementing and tuning bed PID control and putting a 60mm fan right in front of the converter.  I get to 70C in 3-4 minutes and the converter heat sinks don't get past warm.

While this is more than sufficient for PLA I can not get my bed to 90C, which is fine for now since I a don't print with ABS but in the future I plan to upgrade everything to 24V.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/16/12 5:15 PM
*Forehead slap*

Alright, good info to have at any rate.

I'll have to consider getting a 24v supply since that seems like it will solve a lot of issues. I wanted to switch my HBP from PCB to the kapton heater in order to get faster heat up times. I'm not going to get that running the heater at 12v, and 19v on the kapton heater seemed like it wasn't much faster than the PCB heater.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Russell Shipe 12/16/12 5:32 PM
Here is a topic I do have some experience in, I have made several power supplies the bigest boost power supply (step up) was a 24v to (2 deep cycle batteries) 1kw 450v dc power supply that powered a solid state Telsa coil. IGBT's are far superior for high current power supplies.  both boost and buck power supplies are relatively simple to make soldering a ramps scares me power supplies are simple for me.... The bigest issue is once you have sourced parts or purchased a decent step up, usually you would have been better off using the proper voltage to start. So I would only ever play with step up if you needed completely isolated power source (like a Telsa) cheep commercial power supplies will typically do if ripple is not a big issue and you always stick with the rule that your power supply should be rated for twice your load.  As a note cheep power supplies can often be improved with home made filters or hacked and new transistors/heatsinks and low esr capacitors to greatly improve there service life and quality of power.  As always if your not comfortable working with mains voltage you shouldn't.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter BusyBotz 12/16/12 7:44 PM
Go for the 24 volt supply, and a step down if needed for the fans and nozzle.  This is a proven arrangement for the MM, and it just works. The 24V 17A supply sold by Trinitylabs has been reliable for my MM, and I can't recall mention of any problems with it on this list. Do a little reading on the step down, however, since those have been known to be problematic. 
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter bluecoast 12/16/12 7:54 PM
+1 here on just getting a 24V supply. The cheapest no-name ones are less than that 8A converter but will be totally non-UL-approved -- I wouldn't personally use one. You can get a much better used name-brand supply for the same price -- they're common in scrapped industrial equipment.
RE: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Colt D. Majkrzak 12/16/12 8:08 PM

If you have one of the TL orginal step up converters, you’ll notice the chip on the underside is cracked, and its dead.  The link you sent, I replaced it with that, and have never had a single issue single.  I blew up 2 TL step ups prior to this.  23 to 110C in about 8-9 minutes.  Eventually I may shift to 24v when I build a new bot.

 

 

 

Best regards,

Colt Majkrzak  F5CI, F5SE

www.newerastreaming.com

www.bitbucketsolutions.com

 

From: mend...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mend...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Sullivan
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 5:02 PM
To: mend...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter

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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/17/12 6:21 AM
OR should I just go to ultimachine and see that the DIY kit includes 6 35V capacitors and answer my own question? :)

As for swapping out for that step up converter that I linked to - considering I can get a power supply for ~60 and there are additional benefits to running on 24V, I think I'll opt dropping the extra dough for a new power supply. I would just really love to be able to start printing again. I've been down for weeks since my PCB heater caused the terminal block on my RAMPS board to melt.


On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Jonathan Sullivan <jonny...@gmail.com> wrote:
I just started checking my RAMPS board to make sure its compatible with a 24v supply. An older thread mentioned that you need to make sure the capacitors are 35V or higher and I can't seem to spot a voltage listed on them. I assume that since it's a RAMPS 1.4 board from ultimachine, it's also 24V compatible. 

Can anyone confirm my assumption, or do I have to tear off a capacitor and examine it for a voltage rating? :)

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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/17/12 7:06 AM
Does anyone have a recommendation for a 24V power supply. Trinity Labs is sold out, and I've found these two from US local sellers since I don't want to wait a month for shipping:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wei-Hao-S-400-24-Switching-Power-Supply-output-24v-17a-/330726850013?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d00db3ddd

http://www.ebay.com/itm/480W-24V-20A-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-CCTV-/280712320488

I of course know 0 about electricity, and am only basing my search on the 24V/17A combo that Trinity Labs sells. I don't know how wattage factors in. Thoughts/suggestions?



Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter BusyBotz 12/17/12 7:21 AM
The first one looks just like the one sold by TL. The second should work too, though check to see if it will fit under the bed (if that is your plan).

Watts = Amps x Volts

Also, be aware that the ratings on these things are generally optimistic, at least for these lower end power supplies. 
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/17/12 7:30 AM
Is this considered higher-end?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XP-Power-fleXPower-X7-3P2P-Power-Supply-24V-10-5A-17A-tested-working-/140683492240?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c163bb90

I'm really not looking to do anything crazy with it. I just want to run my motors, kapton heater, some 12v LEDs, and some fans.

As far as bed clearance...at this point I could drive a truck under my printer so that shouldn't be an issue. :)


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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter BusyBotz 12/17/12 7:56 AM
For me, Mean Well is the name brand that comes to mind for quality switching supplies. I trust their ratings more than a no-name ebay special.


Here is one on ebay, though I have no idea if this particular listing is any good:


I have purchased 24V Mean Well power supplies from ProgressiveRC. They provide great service, and really know the details of these power supplies. 


No affiliation, just a satisfied customer. 


-Mitch
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Triffid Hunter 12/17/12 8:10 AM
I got a $33 15A/360w "LED lighting" supply from hong kong. arrived in
just over a week, has worked fine for the past few months even with
the voltage dialed up to 28v and the extra current that that causes
the bed to draw.

link: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/270931957632

I have an LM2596-based step-down for my fans and leds. I drive my
hot-end and motors direct from 24v. I did try running my hot-end from
the LM2596 but it couldn't quite handle the current - the chip itself
is rated for it, however the board it was on didn't provide sufficient
heatsinking and I strongly suspect the inductor wasn't up to the task
either.

The 24v kapton heater draws 8.33A for reference. The motor draw will
be less than 1A 90% of the time even if you have them all dialed up to
max - due to how the stepper drivers work, they take quite a bit less
current from the supply than what is delivered to the windings. The
hot-end will draw peaks of 5A but average of 1A or less. Everything
else (fans, lights, etc) are pretty insignificant compared to these 3
primary power users.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter BusyBotz 12/17/12 8:16 AM
Reading back, I wasn't trying to imply that we need expensive power supplies for our machines. Just that in shopping, buyer beware. 
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter bluecoast 12/17/12 9:07 AM
Yeah, +1: Mean Well is a decent Chinese brand and clearly brags that it's UL listed. There are used US/Japan-made ones for less than the $150 link you provided too... you have to search for 24V and actually go into the auctions to find the wattage or current stated.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/17/12 9:30 AM
I *guess* I'm fine with a power supply that could burn my house down as long as I'm only paying 30 bucks for it.


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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Caanon 12/17/12 11:45 AM
I've been running this 24V 480W supply for 5 months and haven't had a single hiccup:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/480W-24V-20A-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-CCTV-/280712320488

I figured I'd overkill on the wattage so that I'm not constantly running at near max capacity.  Alongside it I'm using Ez's 12v Step-Down converter, something similar to this:


And I've decided to change my hot end power resistor to a 25 Ohm one, since after seeing my charred-but-still-somehow-working 5.6 Ohm one that was running 24v but PID'd to 25% I was a little leery about trusting it.  I ended up at the 25Ohm one since we aim for ~25W to heat the hot end, so P=V^2/R, 25=24^2 / R, R=23.04... but since it's hard to source single resistors in that resistance range I went with 25 Ohms for 23.04W, which provides almost identical heat-up times to 24v/5.6Ohm but without all the potential hot burneyness and fire.

DigiKey link:
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/17/12 12:20 PM
Thanks for the link to the step down. I was wondering if there were any out there with solderless connections as my initial search for LM2596 drudged up a bunch of boards that required soldering connections to the corners. I'll see if I can find a 25Ohm resistor locally to avoid shipping costs on an .84c component :)


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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Triffid Hunter 12/17/12 2:03 PM
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Jonathan Sullivan
<jonny...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the link to the step down. I was wondering if there were any out
> there with solderless connections as my initial search for LM2596 drudged up
> a bunch of boards that required soldering connections to the corners. I'll
> see if I can find a 25Ohm resistor locally to avoid shipping costs on an
> .84c component :)

If you're going to get your own resistor, it _MUST_ be a high
temperature vitreous enamel type, with nichrome wound around a ceramic
core. These are the only type that can handle the heat. Check the
datasheet, it should be rated to 250-300c at least.

I personally prefer the cartridge heaters. Those are rated to 800c so
I know it's not going to burn unless my firmware chokes or the
thermistor falls out
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Larry Knopp, aka - [NM] Buzzard 12/17/12 6:21 PM
Hey Triffid...  just as reference, which cartridge heaters?


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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Lee 12/17/12 6:57 PM
Cartridge heaters are da-bomb. I regularly take them up to red-hot temperatures 700C+ at work. They are very reliable at those temps too if you have them well coupled thermally to where you measure the temperature. The ones that have MgO ceramic are the ones I use, which is pretty much any of the cartridge heaters you can buy on McMaster.

On Monday, December 17, 2012 7:21:22 PM UTC-7, Larry Knopp, aka - [NM] Buzzard wrote:
Hey Triffid...  just as reference, which cartridge heaters?

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Triffid Hunter <triffid...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Jonathan Sullivan
<jonny...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the link to the step down. I was wondering if there were any out
> there with solderless connections as my initial search for LM2596 drudged up
> a bunch of boards that required soldering connections to the corners. I'll
> see if I can find a 25Ohm resistor locally to avoid shipping costs on an
> .84c component :)

If you're going to get your own resistor, it _MUST_ be a high
temperature vitreous enamel type, with nichrome wound around a ceramic
core. These are the only type that can handle the heat. Check the
datasheet, it should be rated to 250-300c at least.

I personally prefer the cartridge heaters. Those are rated to 800c so
I know it's not going to burn unless my firmware chokes or the
thermistor falls out

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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/18/12 6:58 AM
Are you guys actually running anything that requires 700C or is this simply testing hardware limits? I have no idea what temp limits my j-head can handle, but I'd assume 700C would be hot enough to melt the carriage above it...
Cartridge heaters Carl Cravens 12/18/12 7:36 AM
All the cartridge heaters on McMaster are 120V AC...  does anyone know of a good guide for incorporating a cartridge heater into an existing J-head with RAMPS controller?  Are there DC cartridge heaters?

Every other time I hear cartridge heaters on hot-ends mentioned, it includes a note about runaway temp and melting of the hot-end/extruder.  Seems that some kind of fuse (electrical or thermal) could be incorporated to reduce this risk.

On 12/17/2012 08:57 PM, Lee wrote:
> Cartridge heaters are da-bomb. I regularly take them up to red-hot
> temperatures 700C+ at work. They are very reliable at those temps too
> if you have them well coupled thermally to where you measure the
> temperature. The ones that have MgO ceramic are the ones I use, which
> is pretty much any of the cartridge heaters you can buy on McMaster.

--
Carl D Cravens (ra...@phoenyx.net)
I'm not lost, I'm "locationally challenged".
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Leary 12/18/12 7:36 AM
I'm pretty intrigued by this.. 

Triffid. what kind of hotend are you using?
Which specific cartridge heater?


On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Jonathan Sullivan <jonny...@gmail.com> wrote:
Are you guys actually running anything that requires 700C or is this simply testing hardware limits? I have no idea what temp limits my j-head can handle, but I'd assume 700C would be hot enough to melt the carriage above it...

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Re: [MendelMax] Cartridge heaters Leary 12/18/12 7:45 AM
Could you use a SRR for the cartridge?


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Re: [MendelMax] Cartridge heaters Paulius Briedis 12/18/12 7:52 AM
Re: [MendelMax] Cartridge heaters Jon Sullivan 12/18/12 8:41 AM
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Triffid Hunter 12/18/12 4:56 PM
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 2:36 AM, Tim Hester <timhe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm pretty intrigued by this..
>
> Triffid. what kind of hotend are you using?
> Which specific cartridge heater?

arcol v4 with hp_'s cartridge heater- see http://2engineers.com

I also have a j-head with one of these cartridge heaters in it. Be
aware that the j-head itself is only rated to about 245c, so make sure
to tune the overshoot out of your PID before trying to print ABS :)
Re: [MendelMax] Cartridge heaters Triffid Hunter 12/18/12 5:12 PM
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 2:36 AM, Carl Cravens <ra...@phoenyx.net> wrote:
> All the cartridge heaters on McMaster are 120V AC...  does anyone know of a
> good guide for incorporating a cartridge heater into an existing J-head with
> RAMPS controller?  Are there DC cartridge heaters?

hp_'s webshop is at http://2engineers.com - it stocks 12v 30w
cartridge heaters with 6mm OD, perfect for stuffing into a j-head
heater block with some light sanding to make enough clearance.
Re: [MendelMax] Cartridge heaters Lee 12/19/12 11:23 AM
I think your idea could be a functional hack. If you used the 12V output from ramps to open/close a relay, it would still work the same with the PID and be controlled by ramps. Then you could use the 120V cartridges and get much better heating on the bed.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/19/12 11:30 AM
Triff - Is there any reason that you're using 12V heaters with your 24V set up? I'm contemplating buying that 10 pack of cartridge heaters off of ebay and then selling them off to anyone else in the group who would want one but I want to make sure there are no potential dangers before I go in that direction.




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Re: [MendelMax] Cartridge heaters Triffid Hunter 12/19/12 3:17 PM
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 6:23 AM, Lee <dleem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think your idea could be a functional hack. If you used the 12V output
> from ramps to open/close a relay, it would still work the same with the PID
> and be controlled by ramps. Then you could use the 120V cartridges and get
> much better heating on the bed.

even with slow PWM your relay wouldn't last long at all- they're only
rated for a limited number of cycles. SSR only if you go this way.

My prusa has a 250w mains powered silicon mat heater and SSR, works
great.. heats up to ABS temps in just a few minutes.

I even used one for PCB reflow the other day, although the adhesive
failed and I had to use my insulation to hold the mat on the alu
plate.

At higher power levels, using higher voltages is the only sensible way
to transmit the power.

The only issue is with selling the combo- it requires you to not only
do your own mains wiring, but run said mains wiring to a moving
platform on a metal machine.. I'm confident of my wiring, but I'm also
aware that there are many reprappers who I would simply not trust to
get this right. Liability for the seller in the event of an electrical
incident is rather murky last time I checked...
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Triffid Hunter 12/19/12 3:26 PM
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 6:30 AM, Jonathan Sullivan
<jonny...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Triff - Is there any reason that you're using 12V heaters with your 24V set
> up?

the 12v ones were available within the community, and I have a few
printers that run from 12v on which I also wanted to use cartridge
heaters. I have a solid enough understanding of electricity to know
what to do for them to run properly from 24v :)

> I'm contemplating buying that 10 pack of cartridge heaters off of ebay
> and then selling them off to anyone else in the group who would want one but
> I want to make sure there are no potential dangers before I go in that
> direction.

the potential danger is the fire risk.. Cartridge heaters are
generally rated above the melting temperature of aluminium (as Josef
Prusa has demonstrated). If something happens, it won't fail like a
power resistor, it'll just keep getting hotter.

This is especially important when running a 12v heater from 24v. A 12v
30w heater like the ones from 2engineers.com will dissipate 120w at
24v, the same as a prusa bed heater pcb! Sure, we can set PID_MAX in
firmware, however if the firmware locks up and leaves the output on
you will have very little time to pull the plug before your hot-end
gets damaged, while the cartridge heater zooms past aluminium's
melting point and approaches the flash point of various common
materials.

This safety issue is the only reason that TL isn't already selling
cartridge heaters.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Larry Knopp, aka - [NM] Buzzard 12/19/12 3:47 PM
Soooo...  Is that a round-about way of advising for 24V? or 12V?


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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Triffid Hunter 12/19/12 3:50 PM
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Larry Knopp <lwk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Soooo...  Is that a round-about way of advising for 24V? or 12V?

nope, just making you aware of my thought process so you have the
information necessary to make your own decision :)

I'd suggest stocking both 12 and 24v units if you're going to get into
selling them.. most repraps use 12v however 24v is becoming more
popular and some folk don't want to rely on PID_MAX in their firmware
config for whatever reason.
Re: [MendelMax] Cartridge heaters Lee 12/19/12 4:05 PM
Definitely SSR. In addition to mech relays having limited number of cycles, they're probably too slow for the PID. I'm not sure what the loop frequency is, but 1ms switching time is common for SSRs.

I'm not really concerned with the sellability of the idea. I'm mostly concerned with how quickly my own heatbed takes. That being said, I don't think there's any reason to buy a 12V cartridge heater. Buy a 120V rated cartridge heater and operate it at 12V. The power will be 10x less than quoted...and I'm pretty sure that's all that's going on with these cartridge heaters that are being sold as 12V. They might actually be 120V 300W heaters rebranded as 12V 30W heaters. It's just a resistive load.
Re: [MendelMax] Cartridge heaters Lee 12/19/12 4:11 PM
Strike that. What I said isn't true. Power goes with square of voltage, so operating a 120V cartridge heater at 12V is 100x less power.
Re: [MendelMax] Cartridge heaters Triffid Hunter 12/19/12 4:40 PM
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Lee <dleem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Definitely SSR. In addition to mech relays having limited number of cycles,
> they're probably too slow for the PID. I'm not sure what the loop frequency
> is, but 1ms switching time is common for SSRs.

switch-on time perhaps, but SSR stays on until the zero crossing, so
your PWM frequency must exactly match line frequency or be
significantly slower than it otherwise you get aliasing.

The PWM that the firmware uses for the bed is sufficiently slow that
this is not a concern- looks like about 4 to 6Hz.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/19/12 5:49 PM
Just so that I'm clear, since a lot of this over my head: A 12V cartridge runs a meltdown risk due to potential firmware failure, 24V would be less of a risk. Correct?

I ask because so far I've been a bit unlucky with things on my printer overheating and melting, so I don't want my house to burn down due to a momentary Marlin hiccup :)

Also, I wasn't planning on going into business selling these, I was mostly interested in recouping costs for purchasing 10 heaters when I only plan to use 1 or 2. Before purchasing I'll probably shop around for smaller quantities.
> --
>
>
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Triffid Hunter 12/19/12 6:08 PM
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Jon Sullivan <jonny...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just so that I'm clear, since a lot of this over my head: A 12V cartridge runs a meltdown risk due to potential firmware failure, 24V would be less of a risk. Correct?

yeah basically. the 24v one still has some risk because it won't fail
in a fault but at least you won't be dumping >100w into it

> I ask because so far I've been a bit unlucky with things on my printer overheating and melting, so I don't want my house to burn down due to a momentary Marlin hiccup :)

if that's a common issue for you, I'd suggest avoiding cartridge
heaters until you have a better handle on it ;)

> Also, I wasn't planning on going into business selling these, I was mostly interested in recouping costs for purchasing 10 heaters when I only plan to use 1 or 2. Before purchasing I'll probably shop around for smaller quantities.

ah fair enough, wasn't sure :)
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Carl Cravens 12/19/12 10:38 PM
Seems one ought to be able to incorporate some kind of fuse, either electrical or thermal, to prevent a runaway condition with a cartridge heater.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Triffid Hunter 12/19/12 10:55 PM
sure, bolt a 260c thermal fuse to the heaterblock, put it in series
with the cartridge heater :)
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/21/12 6:42 AM
As far as stepdowns are concerned, I imagine something like this will do the job:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LM2596-variable-DC-DC-step-down-power-supply-fine-tune-your-output-voltage-/170952913491?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cd967253

I realize there are cheaper options out there, but I don't want to wait for china shipping.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Triffid Hunter 12/21/12 2:14 PM
On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Jon Sullivan <jonny...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As far as stepdowns are concerned, I imagine something like this will do the
> job:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LM2596-variable-DC-DC-step-down-power-supply-fine-tune-your-output-voltage-/170952913491?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cd967253
>
> I realize there are cheaper options out there, but I don't want to wait for
> china shipping.

While the LM2596 itself is rated for the current, those breakouts
generally don't support them. the PCB is too small for adequate
cooling, and the inductor and diode frequently can't handle the peaks.
If I really needed one to behave, I'd run the math in the datasheet
and probably replace a few parts
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/21/12 6:08 PM
Do you have a better recommendation for an LM2596 based step down that's actually ready to go? I guess I really don't know what I'm looking for if I can't trust the numbers in the description. I'll try searching for non e-bay vendors for this part.
> --
>
>
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Triffid Hunter 12/21/12 6:13 PM
On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Jon Sullivan <jonny...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Do you have a better recommendation for an LM2596 based step down that's actually ready to go? I guess I really don't know what I'm looking for if I can't trust the numbers in the description. I'll try searching for non e-bay vendors for this part.

hot-end takes 2.5A or so, so if you get one rated 5-6A you should be golden
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/23/12 4:48 PM
Now that I've had time to actually do some searching, it seems like any 5A rated step-downs look sketchy at best and would require significant cooling. I'll probably get a cheap 3A to run my fans and lights, but want to run with a heater that will support 24V. Since cartridges run the risk of a run-away meltdown, I think I'm going the resistor route.

Caanon posted this, which I assume is safe since he's running it: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/UB5C-25RF1/UB5C-25-ND/2176639

This is a similar resistor
http://shop.3dprinting-r2c2.com/index.php/extruder-heater-resistor.html

Both seem to be rated at +300º C so there should be little risk of burning out. I can't quite find the composition specs that Triffid mentioned but they seem to fit the bill.

If I'm understanding this, I won't need to make any adjustments to Marlin settings since the hardware is now properly rated for the juice I'll be running through it. Does that sound accurate?
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter bluecoast 12/23/12 10:33 PM
The digikey resistor you mention is the very same type as comes with a J-head (probably others too... dunno), but with a correct value (~25 ohms) for 24V.  So in terms of power handling and temperature tolerance for our purposes, it is probably well proven at this point.

I was going to switch to one when my 24V bed came, but I already had a working 5.6 ohm one glued in, so I just limited power in firmware. It works fine. Personally I didn't use any step-downs -- I want my wiring as simple as possible.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/24/12 8:20 AM
I'd *like* to keep the wiring as simple as possible but I seem to be stuck still having some 12V components. Tuning PID_MAX down is probably what I'll do for the hotend.  I'm looking into just swapping out the 12v fans I'm using for 24v, and then I suppose I just have to ditch the lights I've been using since they run on 12V. I'm still thinking very directly in terms of wiring, so the best way I understand to convert to a 24V PS is to use components that run on 24V or to use firmware to tune things down.

I'm not sure, but would setting ABS_PREHEAT_FAN_SPEED to 64 allow 12V fans to run on 24V?   
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter bluecoast 12/24/12 10:29 AM
Others disagree with the correctness of this, but I do run a 12V fan from PWM'd 24V. The best thing to do is get a 24V fan, but this definitely works for me -- your mileage may vary!!

I tried seven 12V fans and two actually died (or were dead before I tried), the other five worked fine, so if you have a few junk-box fans, take the risk. If not, buy a 24V fan... there are lots for under $10 shipped (or get a step-down). And the fan I ended up using seemed to run fine on 24V continuously for a long time to start with even though it's rated 12V. Anyway, disclaimer over:

I set ABS_PREHEAT_FAN_SPEED and PLA_PREHEAT_FAN_SPEED to 128.  I also turned on FAST_PWM_FAN. (the fan has its own control circuit inside and is not a resistive load like the hot end, so we cut the PWM to 50% to 128 not 25%. I measured 11-13V across all fans I tried while running at a value of 128). I also changed the following in marlin_main.cpp:

 #if FAN_PIN > -1
      case 106: //M106 Fan On
        if (code_seen('S')){
           fanSpeed=constrain(code_value()/2,0,128); // I changed. divides the Sxxx message in half and limits it to 128.
        }
        else {
          fanSpeed=128; // I changed. If no Sxxx message, default value is 128      
        }
        break;
      case 107: //M107 Fan Off
        fanSpeed = 0;
        break;
    #endif //FAN_PIN

which has the effect of cutting all M106 speed commands in half or forcing a plain M106 to output 128.

Again, this probably won't work with all fans, and it's also likely shortening your fan life. You should consider it a hack to get your printer running until you can print a nice fan shroud and order a 24V fan to fit it!

The fans that worked for me were all no-name generic (the one on my printer says GLOBAL WIN TAIWAN), and the ones that died were Pabst. I guess the generic fans use the very same brushless control circuit for 12V and 24V models, so are therefore innately 24V tolerant.

I wouldn't actually do this for LED lights though. I have two 12V LED strips on my uprights -- I plan to just run them in series (they are not actually wired yet). If you have a single strip, you could cut it in half (same number of LEDs in each part) and run them in series. There you have it: no step-downs required.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/24/12 10:52 AM
I was thinking about running them in series. I'm only hesitant to do so since I just wired them up a month or so ago. In this hobby you can't be afraid to iterate. 
--
 
 
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/26/12 10:16 AM
Moving along on this…

I've received and hooked up the 24V power supply. When I initially wired it for power I took readings on it and it was outputting 24V. When I kick the bed on I notice that the output drops to 18V, and the kapton heater is getting 17V. I'm a little hesitant to start monkeying around with the pot on the PSU, and thought I'd ask if this is normal before blowing up any more of my hardware.


unk...@googlegroups.com 12/26/12 1:28 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/26/12 1:51 PM
This is the supply I picked up:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/480W-24V-20A-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-CCTV-/280712320488

480W, 24V, 20A. Sadly it doesn't seem to get more detailed than that. I'd have to guess that I chose poorly.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/26/12 2:18 PM


On Wednesday, December 26, 2012 4:01:57 PM UTC-5, ChrisHS wrote:

On Wednesday, 26 December 2012 18:16:16 UTC, Jon Sullivan wrote:
Moving along on this…

I've received and hooked up the 24V power supply. When I initially wired it for power I took readings on it and it was outputting 24V. When I kick the bed on I notice that the output drops to 18V, and the kapton heater is getting 17V. I'm a little hesitant to start monkeying around with the pot on the PSU, and thought I'd ask if this is normal before blowing up any more of my hardware.

Hi,

What make, model & specs for the PSU do you have ?
http://www.amiline.com/DC-24V-20A-Switching-Power-Supply-Transformer-Regulated-986250233.html  - there's no data sheet attached to this, but it's supposed to be 24V, 20A, 480W

Is the PSU rated for the load you've given it ?
As far as I know, yes. Heater should only be pulling 8.5A max, so running it solo shouldn't cause that much sag.
 
Voltage sag that large from setpoint (24V) means the PSU usually won't survive long. It's running overloaded.
Yes some are designed to go into constant current mode but they are usually sold as battery chargers.

There may also need to be a bit of load for the output voltage to be regulated correctly.
Try setting the pot with just a few amps of load.

Watch out for a cheap PSU rated at X only delivering X/2 Amps.
Plenty of ATX cheap PSUs sold as 4 to 600 W are designs for 2-300 W.

Are you measuring at the PSU output or the heater ?
Measuring at the PSU, and at the heater just to double check. 18V at PSU when heater is active, 17V at RAMPS terminal for the heater wires
Are the connecting wires getting hot ?
Connecting wires are not hot. In fact the PSU is hardly warm and the fan hasn't kicked on at all.
 
...
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter bluecoast 12/26/12 2:28 PM
Are you sure you received the exact model shown in the auction? I couldn't see any manufacturer name to find a datasheet... the pot could just need adjusting as Chris says, or your unit could be bad, or the specs could easily just be a lie. It looks like the kind of no-name no-safety-certification power supply that people were suggesting be avoided.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/26/12 2:57 PM
Well, it's shiny like the one shown in the auction. There doesn't seem to be a manufacturer name attached to it so I have no way of identifying what the hell it is. There's a sticker that says 24V/20A so as far as I can tell it's the right item.

Trimpot is definitely borked since no matter how much I adjust it, the output from the supply itself is a pretty constant 23.56V. It won't change up or down. Luckily I can return this POS, less shipping costs. That seller was suggested by Caanon originally, so I assumed that it was decent quality. Ah well.

Any other 24V PS suggestions? I'll definitely be paying more attention to the spec sheet this time.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Dan Tyrrell 12/26/12 3:22 PM

Using a series resistor in order to run fans on a higher voltage is quite common on some systems. It will drop the speed (and noise) a little which may be ok.

--
 
 
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter ChrisHS 12/26/12 4:22 PM
I think you got a duff one but I'd get a refund & try elsewhere in case the next one in the batch just lasts a bit longer.

Description is in Chinese english, the grammar is not quite right in many places.

No markings at all isn't a good sign either. They couldn't be bothered to to put any spec on it so a seller can add their own description of what it is...

If you can find anything else that you want looked at before you spend stick the link in here.
Someone else will want one if you spot a decent one at a good price.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter bluecoast 12/26/12 4:23 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LAMBDA-24V-20A-480W-DC-POWER-SUPPLY-DRP480-1AR-/271094235298?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1e79c0a2 (used)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-TESTED-POWER-SUPPLY-OUTPUT-24V-20A-SITOP-POWER-20-1PH-6EP1336-2BA00-/350661566465?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a50ee001 (used)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mean-Well-MW-24V-18-8A-450W-AC-DC-Switching-Power-Supply-SE-450-24-Brand-New-/110933329973?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d4244835 (if you prefer new this is a respected Chinese brand)

Check these over yourself of course... don't trust me or anyone else :D. If you look closely you can find cheaper used ebay supplies than those -- be certain that they work with single-phase house current (many higher current ones don't).

Some good name brands: Sola, Mean Well, Lambda, Siemens, Astec, Todd, Power One, XP Power, Condor, Cosel.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Triffid Hunter 12/26/12 5:05 PM
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 8:28 AM, bluecoast <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> in the auction listing implies it is only 17A output if you give it 3-phase
> input (like you'd find in an industrial machine). If you give it 2-phase
> input (like you have at home)

actually homes only have single phase- the connections are hot
(phase), neutral (return) and safety earth.

2-phase is what we send to the stepper motors on our printers ;)
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter bluecoast 12/26/12 6:26 PM
You work fast: I had deleted that post pretty much immediately.

In North America you actually sometimes hear house current (incorrectly) called two-phase: we have two hots 180 degrees apart plus neutral, so 120/240VAC circuits are available as needed. In this case though the PSU was a chassis with two plug-in modules, numbers 2P and 3P, 24V10A and 24V17A respectively. I happen to be in the middle of converting a 3-phase cnc mill to single -- the vfd, and brushless controllers will run on single or three-phase and they all have a similarly stated derating for single. That's where I was coming from with that.

Fortunately I seem to have called it single-phase a couple posts down (does that count as face saved, since I am actually an electrical engineer)?
unk...@googlegroups.com 12/26/12 6:40 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 12/26/12 7:12 PM
At this point I'm mostly scoping out that Mean Well 24V/18.8A/450W

The spec on it doesn't say anything about 1P, 2P or 3P. My understanding with the types of power supplies I've been working with is that there's the LNG input from AC, and then 3 pairs of +/- out. I didn't think it mattered how many of the outputs you used in terms of the Voltage and Current being supplied.

I see that the Mean Well is UL approved. That's more than I can say for the one I'm sending back. Does anything in that spec sheet jump out to you as maybe not-so-great, blue?
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter bluecoast 12/26/12 8:28 PM
You are right -- anything with LNG at your country's AC voltage is going to work for you.

I did not mean to confuse things by talking about phase --  I just meant to warn about stuff like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-SITOP-POWER-20-24V-20A-DC-POWER-SUPPLY-6EP1436-2BA00-/290804487946?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b54c570a which looks like an amazing deal except it's three-phase (three L inputs) 500V, but they don't make that clear anywhere in the auction.

I think that the Mean Well will be a fine power supply. I've never used one but it is a 'real' brand even though it's made offshore. It looks like Busybots suggested it too at the start of this thread. The same PSU is sold at Mouser and they wouldn't sell junk: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/SE-450-24/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuEhFEw3BeJbRU6zy2DwnXReTArlvlbwM4%3d and they would sell it if it was junk.

Of course this is just my opinion; others on here have a lot more experience than me, for sure. There is almost no intrinsic safety built into anything diy printer related, but I think the power supplies are the worst offender: any one without a safety approval or manufacturer's name is junk in my opinion and shouldn't be sold. They're the cheapest and probably lowest quality stuff available anywhere. I don't know why we consider them.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Triffid Hunter 12/26/12 8:54 PM
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 1:26 PM, bluecoast <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You work fast: I had deleted that post pretty much immediately.

hard to delete an email that gets sent the instant you press post :P

> Fortunately I seem to have called it single-phase a couple posts down (does
> that count as face saved, since I am actually an electrical engineer)?

yeah ok ;)
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Dan Tyrrell 12/26/12 9:03 PM

In my experience, based on 1000s of units in service, Mean Well are very good.

--
 
 
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Trevor Lewis 12/26/12 9:32 PM
While I don't have 1000s of units of experience with Mean Well power supplies I have had 2 that work great. They don't match the one on Ebay, but one is used for a bench PS and the other went into a CNC. Great value IMO...


--
 
 



--
 
Failure is just success rounded down. - T-Rex
 
Sent from your iPhone.
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter bluecoast 12/26/12 9:49 PM
To me, it's a forum. I never really considered that there was emailing going on behind it for anybody.

Now this guy's correcting my deleted post? Damn, he really IS good.

:D
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 1/1/13 8:55 AM
Since I'm still dicking around with this power supply business, I thought I'd at least share this with anyone who is looking for a 24V power supply:

Jameco Electronics carries the Mean Well 450W 24V 18.8A Power Supply, and with shipping for me the total was about 91 bucks. This is cheaper than the auctions I had found on ebay + no waiting for shipping from China, which is nice + support from a company that isn't a fly-by-night reseller.

https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&pa=2101606&productId=2101606
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Maxbots 1/1/13 12:20 PM
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Trevor Lewis 1/1/13 1:13 PM
When I clicked on that link the "Frequently Purchased Together" section listed this:


Golly, wonder what people are doing with that power supply? :)


--
 
 



--
 
Failure is just success rounded down. - T-Rex
 
Sent from your iPhone.
RE: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Colt D. Majkrzak 1/4/13 11:59 AM

Caanon,

 

I purchased the PSU you had linked to do my 24V conversion but it seems I’m having some issues.  If I measure the output voltage on that PSU, no matter how I adjust the POT, the PSU peak output seems to be 23v?  With the electronics hooked up and just the bed running, I get about 17v output.

Is this what you’re seeing with yours also or maybe do I have a defunc’ed unit?  The box it came in was a little odd looking and the QC sticker was actually broken.

 

TIA

 

 

Best regards,

Colt Majkrzak  F5CI, F5SE

www.newerastreaming.com

www.bitbucketsolutions.com

 

From: mend...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mend...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Caanon
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 1:46 PM
To: mend...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter

 

I've been running this 24V 480W supply for 5 months and haven't had a single hiccup:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/480W-24V-20A-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-CCTV-/280712320488

 

I figured I'd overkill on the wattage so that I'm not constantly running at near max capacity.  Alongside it I'm using Ez's 12v Step-Down converter, something similar to this:

 

 

And I've decided to change my hot end power resistor to a 25 Ohm one, since after seeing my charred-but-still-somehow-working 5.6 Ohm one that was running 24v but PID'd to 25% I was a little leery about trusting it.  I ended up at the 25Ohm one since we aim for ~25W to heat the hot end, so P=V^2/R, 25=24^2 / R, R=23.04... but since it's hard to source single resistors in that resistance range I went with 25 Ohms for 23.04W, which provides almost identical heat-up times to 24v/5.6Ohm but without all the potential hot burneyness and fire.

 

DigiKey link:

 



On Monday, December 17, 2012 9:30:13 AM UTC-8, Jon Sullivan wrote:

I *guess* I'm fine with a power supply that could burn my house down as long as I'm only paying 30 bucks for it.

 

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 12:07 PM, bluecoast <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yeah, +1: Mean Well is a decent Chinese brand and clearly brags that it's UL listed. There are used US/Japan-made ones for less than the $150 link you provided too... you have to search for 24V and actually go into the auctions to find the wattage or current stated.




On Monday, December 17, 2012 11:16:57 AM UTC-5, BusyBotz wrote:

Reading back, I wasn't trying to imply that we need expensive power supplies for our machines. Just that in shopping, buyer beware. 

On Monday, December 17, 2012 10:10:51 AM UTC-6, Triffid Hunter wrote:



I got a $33 15A/360w "LED lighting" supply from hong kong. arrived in
just over a week, has worked fine for the past few months even with
the voltage dialed up to 28v and the extra current that that causes
the bed to draw.

link: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/270931957632

I have an LM2596-based step-down for my fans and leds. I drive my
hot-end and motors direct from 24v. I did try running my hot-end from
the LM2596 but it couldn't quite handle the current - the chip itself
is rated for it, however the board it was on didn't provide sufficient
heatsinking and I strongly suspect the inductor wasn't up to the task
either.

The 24v kapton heater draws 8.33A for reference. The motor draw will
be less than 1A 90% of the time even if you have them all dialed up to
max - due to how the stepper drivers work, they take quite a bit less
current from the supply than what is delivered to the windings. The
hot-end will draw peaks of 5A but average of 1A or less. Everything
else (fans, lights, etc) are pretty insignificant compared to these 3
primary power users.

--
 
 

 

--
 
 

RE: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Colt D. Majkrzak 1/6/13 9:50 AM

Does anyone else by chance have this PSU

http://www.ebay.com/itm/480W-24V-20A-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-CCTV-/280712320488

 

And can comment on the output voltage w/o load?  Trying to determine if this unit was screwed out of the box (QC sticker was broken, it was slightly bent, only seeing 23.0v at peak / fully turned up).

 

Also could anyone recommend a PSU and a source that can easily drive the TL Y upgrade kit bed heater + electronics @ 24v?

 

TIA!

 

 

Best regards,

Colt Majkrzak  F5CI, F5SE

www.newerastreaming.com

www.bitbucketsolutions.com

 

From: mend...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mend...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Colt D. Majkrzak
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 2:00 PM
To: mend...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter

 

Caanon,

 

I purchased the PSU you had linked to do my 24V conversion but it seems I’m having some issues.  If I measure the output voltage on that PSU, no matter how I adjust the POT, the PSU peak output seems to be 23v?  With the electronics hooked up and just the bed running, I get about 17v output.

Is this what you’re seeing with yours also or maybe do I have a defunc’ed unit?  The box it came in was a little odd looking and the QC sticker was actually broken.

 

TIA

 

 

Best regards,

Colt Majkrzak  F5CI, F5SE

www.newerastreaming.com

www.bitbucketsolutions.com

 

From: mend...@googlegroups.com [mailto:m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Caanon

--
 
 

Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Larry Knopp, aka - [NM] Buzzard 1/6/13 6:07 PM
Colt,

This sounds extremely similar to the situation that Jon Sullivan went through, and why he started this whole thread.  Check his last post (about four up...)  He found a good US-based supplier for the Mean Well supply which has been previously well-regarded.

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RE: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Colt D. Majkrzak 1/6/13 6:31 PM

Wow I must be blind, I totally read that thread even :/

 

Thanks!

 

 

Best regards,

Colt Majkrzak  F5CI, F5SE

www.newerastreaming.com

www.bitbucketsolutions.com

 

From: mend...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mend...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Knopp
Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 8:07 PM

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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Larry Knopp, aka - [NM] Buzzard 1/6/13 7:42 PM
Heheheh
No prob!
Hope that's what you need!  (Jon ordered his...  should be getting it soon, I'm sure.  I'll yell at him to update in this thread...)

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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Triffid Hunter 1/6/13 8:21 PM
I got http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/270931957632 and set it to 28.5v.. measured the other day, it seems to stay there while the bed heats

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RE: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Colt D. Majkrzak 1/6/13 9:38 PM

I just ordered one as well, hopefully be in Wednesday / Thursday, so we’ll have a race who can report back faster :P

I emailed the seller on ebay to return this one, just a shame since the unit seems like a rip off after looking at it in person now :/ (Flimsy, conflicting labels, etc)

 

 

Best regards,

Colt Majkrzak  F5CI, F5SE

www.newerastreaming.com

www.bitbucketsolutions.com

 

From: mend...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mend...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Knopp
Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 9:43 PM

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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Caanon 1/7/13 12:21 PM
Ack!

Sorry for the slow reply, I haven't been printing much.  Was rearranging the man cave and the printer had to be disassembled in the process.  I'll see what I can do about getting those readings ASAP.  I can confirm that my power supply originally was able to supply 24v exactly if I adjusted the pot.  I had to unscrew (ccw I think?) the little blue pot about 20x more than I thought I had to, but it went from 19v all the way up to 24 without a problem.  I'll get the load readings asap.
RE: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Colt D. Majkrzak 1/7/13 12:42 PM

Very Odd, if I went CCW I was seeing the output voltage lower, and CW I gave it a solid dozen or more turns and never saw it even for a brief moment jump above 23.0v.  I’m starting to think I just got a bad unit, the whole thing looked like it got banged up before they actually even put it in the box.  One of the mounts was bent, the QC sticker was broken, etc.

 

 

Best regards,

Colt Majkrzak  F5CI, F5SE

www.newerastreaming.com

www.bitbucketsolutions.com

 

From: mend...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mend...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Caanon
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2013 2:22 PM

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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 1/7/13 1:22 PM
Mine was definitely borked in one way or another. Turning the pot made no difference at all. Output was constant at 23V until I put the heater load on it, then would drop to 17V. After that disappointment I ordered another 24V 20A supply from Amazon and received a 5V/20A supply instead. I've gotten my money back for both, and now have 2 power supplies that I have no use for.

That lead me to break down and get a Mean Well in the hopes that it actually does what it's spec'd to do. Should be in on Wednesday...


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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Caanon 1/10/13 12:20 PM
I can confirm that my model is solid as a rock.  According to my multimeter it's 24.0V without load, and 24.0V with load while printing (heated bed + hot end + motors running).  Sorry you got a bum unit on my recommendation :(
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Mike Payson 1/10/13 1:44 PM
This is a common symptom of the input voltage not being properly selected. If it is set for 220V and you are running it on 110V, that is exactly what will happen. It certainly could be a defective PSU also-- that is always a possibility with Chinese PSUs, but definitely double check that you have the voltage set properly.

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RE: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Colt D. Majkrzak 1/10/13 3:28 PM

Oh ya its Chinese majorly, stamped ear to ear, but its also ‘auto’ switching, so I don’t even have anything I can adjust L

 

What’s even better is now the ebay company wants to give me 70% back of my total amount so I can keep the defective thing…

 

 

Best regards,

Colt Majkrzak  F5CI, F5SE

www.newerastreaming.com

www.bitbucketsolutions.com

 

From: mend...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mend...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Payson
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:44 PM

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RE: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Colt D. Majkrzak 1/10/13 5:05 PM

Mean Well PSU just got here and wow you won’t be disappointed.  The ebay POS would vdroop the second the heater came on from 23 to 17v, this mean well basically gives you the middle figure and says come at me bro after you flip the heater on. 

 

Literally ZERO vdrop, 24v solid bed on or off.  Not cheap but just impressive as hell.

 

 

Best regards,

Colt Majkrzak  F5CI, F5SE

www.newerastreaming.com

www.bitbucketsolutions.com

 

From: mend...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mend...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Colt D. Majkrzak
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:29 PM
To: mend...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter

 

Oh ya its Chinese majorly, stamped ear to ear, but its also ‘auto’ switching, so I don’t even have anything I can adjust L

 

What’s even better is now the ebay company wants to give me 70% back of my total amount so I can keep the defective thing…

 

 

Best regards,

Colt Majkrzak  F5CI, F5SE

www.newerastreaming.com

www.bitbucketsolutions.com

 

From: mend...@googlegroups.com [mailto:m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Payson

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RE: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Colt D. Majkrzak 1/10/13 5:14 PM

Here’s an example of the TL upgrade bed with the new PSU, take into account the thermistor is still screwy (still haven’t got a confirmation from TL on what table I should be using with the new bed).  So that’s actually roughly 115-120.  Now just got to get it off bang-bang and we’re back in business.

 

 

Best regards,

Colt Majkrzak  F5CI, F5SE

www.newerastreaming.com

www.bitbucketsolutions.com

 

From: mend...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mend...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Colt D. Majkrzak
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 7:05 PM


To: mend...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter

 

Mean Well PSU just got here and wow you won’t be disappointed.  The ebay POS would vdroop the second the heater came on from 23 to 17v, this mean well basically gives you the middle figure and says come at me bro after you flip the heater on. 

 

Literally ZERO vdrop, 24v solid bed on or off.  Not cheap but just impressive as hell.

 

 

Best regards,

Colt Majkrzak  F5CI, F5SE

www.newerastreaming.com

www.bitbucketsolutions.com

 

From: mend...@googlegroups.com [mailto:m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Colt D. Majkrzak

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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Larry Knopp, aka - [NM] Buzzard 1/10/13 5:39 PM
Awesome.
I spoke to Jon Sullivan last night and he got his up and running again with his new Mean Well also.  Very pleased.
18 - 108C in less than 8 minutes, he said...  and just like yours, rock steady.

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Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Triffid Hunter 1/10/13 11:01 PM
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Colt D. Majkrzak <co...@bitbucketsolutions.com> wrote:

Mean Well PSU just got here and wow you won’t be disappointed.  The ebay POS would vdroop the second the heater came on from 23 to 17v, this mean well basically gives you the middle figure and says come at me bro after you flip the heater on. 

 

Literally ZERO vdrop, 24v solid bed on or off.  Not cheap but just impressive as hell.


fwiw, my ~$30 ebay 24v 15A  supply doesn't droop driving the bed, even though I dialed it up to 28.5v. bed hits ABS temps in about 1 minute due to receiving 280w from the heater :)
Re: [MendelMax] Wiring 12V Power Supply to Kapton Heater w/Step up converter Jon Sullivan 1/11/13 12:03 PM
Well we'll just call you Mr. Fancy Pants ;)

I guess two bad purchases were enough to push me off of the pay and pray path. I paid more than I wanted to, but now I have a supply that works. Biggest complaint that I have is that the fan runs constantly, and when the heater kicks on it goes into high speed and is even louder. But I guess overheating shouldn't be an issue...

Maybe I'll toy with the pot a little to see if I can improve heat up times but I feel as if I shouldn't press my luck.


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