|bye-bye||Herman Peeren||5/31/11 3:18 AM|
Dear fellow JCM-mailinglist-members,
Wanted to let you know that we, Yepr-illustrations, have quit our
cooperation to the JCM since this morning. Unfortunately. As long as
we need approval from the CLT to place content, we won't contribute
new stuff to it anymore.
We had a nice time here. Thank you very much for offering us a stage
and for all your support.
Hope you keep enjoying what you do and we'll probably meet some other
time or place.
Herman Peeren & Nelleke Verhoeff
|Re: [JCM] bye-bye||Paul Orwig||5/31/11 5:04 AM|
Dear Herman and Nelleke,
While I am deeply saddened by your decision to leave, I respect your reasons for doing so. Herman, one of my fondest personal memories from JAB was meeting you and talking with you about hopes and dreams and how to try and bridge some of the gaps in our diverse community.
Your art and your words have made the JCM a happier, more beautiful, and more thoughtful place for the members of our community to come and read stories. The JCM was better for your unique contributions, and because of that your departure is a loss that will not be fully replaced.
Thank you for everything both of you have meant to our community, our team, and to me. If you ever decide to return to the JCM (and I hope you will), there will always be a place here for you here.
All my wishes for happiness and success in all that lies ahead for you both,
millions of pixels
shedding light on our stories
and making us smile
|Re: [JCM] bye-bye||Dianne Henning||5/31/11 6:26 AM|
Dear Herman and Nelleke,
You both gave the JCM such a wonderful identity with your illustrations and input, it is very saddening to see you go. However, I do understand and I respect your reasons for doing so, and I hope you will consider coming back soon.
I enjoyed meeting you at JAB and I especially enjoyed the JCM session with all of your artwork up on the screen. It was a testimony to how great the community can be when it works together.
I wish you both all the best and much success...
Give from your heart and
the truth will come out. Freedom,
in expression, lives.
|Re: [JCM] bye-bye||Alice||5/31/11 7:26 AM|
Dear Herman and Nelleke,
I am sorry to wake up to this news today. So sorry! The JCM was fortunate to have your combined artistic talent for a year - I felt lucky to be a part of a team with your talent on it in with each issue we produced. But I understand about being true to your convictions, and if you've decided that it's time to move on I respect that - I just wish it wasn't so.
Your contribution will be deeply missed by myself and so many others. I hope to work with you again someday - it's been delightful and enriching.
All the best to the two of you.
|Re: [JCM] bye-bye||hagengraf||5/31/11 8:05 AM|
I would like to publish that article on every website where it is possible with a few entry sentences
'This article was written by ... for the purpose of ... It was refused by ... because of ...
This article is important and we want to help to bring it into public'.
or something like this - sorry for my english.
It is unbelievable for me to see that happen!
Hermann, if you agree, please attach the article in your answer or send it to me via email 'hagen...@gmail.com'
And please remain in the JCM. It's is one of the last chances for the Joomla! project.
our website http://cocoate.com
can I publish you article
-- Hagen Graf cocoate.com 32 rue du Pla :: 11510 Fitou :: France phone: +49 5332 521 332 :: +33 970 44 51 10 skype: cocoate email: firstname.lastname@example.org web: http://cocoate.com about me: http://about.me/hagengraf Pour le respect de l'environnement, merci de réfléchir à l'utilité d'imprimer cet email.
|Re: [JCM] bye-bye||Cristina Solana||5/31/11 8:39 AM|
I hated to watch it happen because I never believed we should even be having the discussion. Your patience (and Paul's) is admirable. You were an asset to the magazine and I know the loss of your whimsical humor and Nelleke's beautiful art will be missed by the team and the readers.
While it might be best to start another thread, I see no need to, so here are my thoughts, feelings, etc.
I've been carefully considering, for months, my role as part of the Joomla Community Magazine. A few months ago when the first Nooku article was rejected by the CLT, I was extremely disappointed and faced with something close to a moral dilemma. I should have walked away then, but I let my feelings about disappointing friends sway my judgement.
My idea was that the magazine was supposed to be a medium where the community could share information that the community was interested in and we could collectively learn from, which would improve Joomla - the cms, framework, extensions and website development. I never thought it was necessary to ask permission of the CLT to publish an article about a topic that is clearly interesting to the community (whether Nooku or otherwise) and we never had to except for with Nooku. I thought as the "lead" editors, it was at our discretion to choose what was published provided that it wasn't negative. Both of the articles that were submitted about Nooku, were about code, not about politics and therefore, I see no reason why the CLT would reject either. There is a clear bias here. If a community member wants to write about code that he/she is familiar with and enjoys working with and that information will benefit the community - why would we stop that or try to change the contents of said contribution?
None of it made any sense to me and I kept asking myself: If Nooku is free, GPL and runs under the proverbial Joomla hood - why do we have to seek permission to publish? The only reasonable answer is politics and personal issues. We can all have our personal issues off property, it's our right as individuals, but when a few disturb the flow of information about code in the community for that reason, it is of detriment to the project and moving forward.
And so I regret that, at this point I have to stand on principle and do what is right regardless of my personal connections here. I remained on the magazine team because I really do love this team and I've developed friendships that I am sure will last for many years to come, if not maybe a lifetime.
So with that I say, thanks for all the great memories.
I wish you all the best,
|Re: [JCM] bye-bye||Paul Orwig||5/31/11 9:13 AM|
I am sorry to see you go, but as with Herman I respect your decision and the reasons behind it.
Thank you for all of the blood, sweat, and tears you have poured into the JCM for such a long time. You have been a tireless worker and a huge asset to our team.
You are an idealist and that is one of the things that I love most about you. I haven't always agreed with you, but I have always respected you. I am happy that you and I became friends through the JCM. The Molajo team is lucky to have you.
shy and hot headed
helpful, friendly, and funny
smart and creative
|Re: [JCM] bye-bye||Robert Vining||5/31/11 10:27 AM|
I'm sorry to see that a decision by the CLT has damaged yet another community within the Joomla project. The magazine was one of the last few resources where I felt we were able to contribute to the project without strings attached to our hands and head. This shows that it's not the case any longer.
I actually met Cristina through the JCM, when she joined me as the Website Case Studies Co-Editor before the launch of the first issue, and I knew right from the start, her desire to contribute and work ethic were unmatched. She dug in, and made shit happen.
The magazine and Joomla will not be the same without the contributions of both Yepr and Crissie, and due to the moral issue I have with the decision to censor the 2 articles and 1 illustration that mentioned Nooku, I'm forced to step down from the JCM as well.
Thank you all for allowing me to be a small part of the first year with the JCM, but I feel it's time I move on as well. You all know where I am. See you on the outside.
|Re: [JCM] bye-bye||Milena Mitova||5/31/11 10:45 AM|
Geez! That's awful news!
I am so sorry to see you all go - you have been fantastic role models and I am really, really not understanding what is going on and what has happened...
Is there a way to perhaps to change things around and get you to stay? What would change your minds? We can talk to THOSE people, definitely!
Just tell us what's needed!! I think things have not reached the point of no return, I am more than willing to be a mediator or do anything that will make things run the way they did...
With Best Regards,
Milena Mitova | email me back | Cell: 646.596.6433 |
|Re: [JCM] bye-bye||Paul Orwig||5/31/11 11:09 AM|
Thanks Robert for all of your important contributions to the JCM, both in the Website Case Studies topic, with all of the other help that you provided to JCM team members over time, and also how you strongly and consistently promoted the JCM on Joomstew.
I am sorry to see you go but I respect your decision. I am glad that you and I became better friends through the JCM.
Stay in touch!
website case studies
so many great examples
for us to follow
|Re: bye-bye||Herman Peeren||6/1/11 12:29 AM|
Just tweeted: Please note, that the refusal of my article and our
cartoon in the JCM have nothing to do with @AndrewEddie . He has been
of great help!
|Re: [JCM] Re: bye-bye||Paul Orwig||6/1/11 3:29 PM|
Normally, I would like for a "so long former JCM team member" thread like this one to just be focused on us all thanking those who have contributed and have chosen to leave. But there has been a lot of attention given to a number of issues that tie into Herman's article not being published, both here on this public email list as well as elsewhere. And so because of that I want to share some of my thoughts in this thread, at least to get it added to the public record for those who are watching this thread.
The JCM has never been a "free speech" website, at least not in the sense that a country might convey it as a legal right. The JCM is an "on property" website that falls under the oversight of the Joomla! project for everything, including deciding what is and is not accepted to be published That oversight is shared by OSM from a legal standpoint, and CLT from an operational standpoint. I understand that some wish that the JCM was a fully independent website with no oversight, but that has never been the case.
As a JCM lead editor, I believe it has always been part of my role to respect the structure that that JCM operates within. Part of that means is that when content is submitted that I feel CLT may have concerns about, I want to proactively ask for their review of that content. I do not want to see something published that CLT might come back and insist that it be unpublished. If that happened it might cause some unnecessary drama and embarrassment. Rather, I want there to be a spirit of trust between the JCM and the CLT.
So that is why I asked CLT to review Herman's article, as well as Babs' before it, and also the Jane Beyond cartoon that was submitted for the June JCM. In each of those cases I didn't have to do it, I chose to do it, and those choices were done out of an understanding that there are some delicate realities that currently exist within our project and our broader community. There is no defined role saying that JCM editors have the final say on JCM content and CLT only has some other oversight role. Because of that, as far as I am concerned CLT has final authority over all aspects of the JCM except for legal matters where OSM is the final authority.
I know some feel that not publishing Herman's article is an example of censorship, but I don't agree with that. CLT came up with an alternate suggestion for what Herman originally submitted, with the sincere hope that the revised article would be published and be better received by all JCM readers. I have never worked for a conventional magazine, but I can envision many cases where an author submits an article (or an idea for one) and editors and managers discuss it and sometimes ask the author for a different approach. I don't think what happened in this case is any different from that, and I don't think that alternate suggestion was inappropriate. In the end, Herman and Andrew were not able to come together on a shared vision for the revised article. It was Herman's right as the original author to not agree to those proposed changes. I don't think anyone was happy that a revised version of Herman's article was not published, including CLT.
So while I am disappointed that Herman's article was not published (as well as Babs' previously submitted article), I accept that the JCM is subject to CLT's oversight and I live within those boundaries for my work on the JCM. I am extremely saddened to see my friends and fellow JCM team members Herman, Nelleke, Cristina, and Robert choose to leave our team due to how this situation ended up, but as I have stated earlier in this thread, I respect their feelings in these matters. We all get to choose when and why we join, as well as when and why we leave.
We are not perfect, and so things aren't perfect with the JCM. But we are doing good, and and I hope that we will focus on the good that we are able to do, instead of the fact that we aren't perfect and can't do everything that everyone would like for us to do.
|Re: [JCM] Re: bye-bye||Babs Gösgens||6/2/11 1:59 AM|
Thank you for clarifying that Paul. I understand that an on property publication must respect certain restrictions.
I was and am fully supportive of JCM's global objective: positive exposure around the Joomla project. And it's doing fantastic a job at that, there are two JOscars to prove that.
What saddens me, is that I overheard someone say that JCM has integrity, when at that time my article on Nooku had already been rejected by CLT.
I can see no harm in sharing other perspectives on Joomla with our community. Nooku, Molajo, they are all perfectly valid applications of Joomla. To my opinion, Nooku had as much right to be written about in JCM as any other extension the magazine has covered this past year.
On a more emotional note, I feel we are disrespectful to our readers by refusing to feature articles on Nooku. If they are considered controversial by CLT, I have never heard anyone within the Dutch community express any concerns about Nooku. I would like to believe that the global community is very much interested in what it is that 'this Nooku' does, and how they may use it in their own projects. Would it not be preferable they find this information on property? Why would we force them to turn elsewhere? Because they will go out looking for it. Wouldn't you love to read how others are using Joomla and how they are shaping and molding? It would do Joomla - as a project - the world of good if it embraced innovations that (for crying out loud) come from their own community. It would increase it's credibility if it showed that it is open to collaboration and that it supports the spirit of Open Source: use, learn, change, share.
I will still hope for 'the best', as I am sure Herman does too.
|Re: [JCM] Re: bye-bye - suggestion!||Milena Mitova||6/2/11 6:15 AM|
I am probably the most politically dis-connected person on the team, I have no clue what you guys are discussing - forgive my ignorance - however, I think we need to really sit down and say - hey, these are the groups JCM caters to: A, B, C. Each group will have a specific reason to click on the JCM website because it will have certain expectations. So, let's give things a bit of a structure, structure is really good:
Now, let's create a page dedicated to our categories, who they cater to, and the topics that the magazine will be covering - all in all 60 topics! Then, let's include that in the "about JCM" page, and in the author's resources and in the "become an author" page, so that everyone who wants to become an author can see what topics he/she CAN cover. If anyone has suggestions for new topics, they will have to go through Paul and the other decision-making authority figures/committees. But hey, at least, there IS A PROCESS!
By spelling all this out for people we will remove many ambiguities, will reduce the drama and will help build a bit more structured approach to creating each issue. We can further use the list of topics to call for volunteers, tweet and retweet it, and actively attract content contributors. I suggest we create a hash name #JCMtopics or something like that and promote it. Anyone wanting to contribute will have to use this hash tag so that we can track the progress of what is going on. This can also give us a chance to become more open to the world, outside our tight-knit community and hopefully get a lot more resources and interesting articles. Also, to reward the content contributors, we might want to give them a bit of real estate - like 250x250 banner that they can post on the JCM page for 30 days (again this needs to be approved by TLC, however this IS a good way for us to barter for good content and attract bloggers!!!). I am available to create such a program. Basically we can provide stipulations - if you get 100+ likes on your article, you get one month free advertising via a banner on JCM. We can use our GOogle analytics data to tell them how many people will see their banner ad!!! This will be a good motivation for many a people/bloggers and will help promote JCM even further.
I personally think that 60 topics is a lot of topics within potentially 10 - 12 categories and it will give us enough to write about. If we couple this with several good promotional strategies, we can get a lot of mileage and attract many writers. Writing does the rules though is a MUST if we want to be succesful. Let me know if you think the above structured approach would make things easier. Thank you all for your time!