|Google's newest programming language: Dart||Chris Koerner||9/8/11 10:51 AM|
|Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||Chris Koerner||9/8/11 12:47 PM|
|Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||opinali||9/9/11 8:38 AM|
|Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||robogeek||9/9/11 8:39 AM|
On Sep 8, 12:47 pm, Chris Koerner <chessm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Now, Google has already released one language in recent history — Go<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_%28programming_language%29> —
> so we can assume that Dart won’t be a C-like system-oriented language. With> though, is that both Bracha and Bak have worked extensively with Smalltalk<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltalk> in
> the past — and an interpreted Smalltalkesque language would fit right into> "http://www.extremetech.com/computing/95417-google-announces-dart-prog...
One of the co-presenters is Lars, who worked on HotSpot and V8, and V8
is used outside the browser. The Node.js platform is built on top of
side non-browser applications.
I'm wondering if they'll present this new language running on top of
V8 and whether V8 will develop an ability to run multiple languages?
Right now it's a shame that the Node.js platform can only be
+ David Herron
|Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||Cédric Beust ♔||9/9/11 9:34 AM|
Come on, now, this makes no sense at all.
|Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||Russel||9/9/11 10:11 AM|
On Fri, 2011-09-09 at 08:38 -0700, opinali wrote:
[ . . . ]
> away from Java. Dart is being announced as a "web language" but
Oak was an embedded systems programming language for white and brown
Clearly Java is a programming language that doesn't know where it's
Or put another way, I never believe marketing hype.
And to bait people with "Lots of speculation about Dart; few facts. All
Let's hope the aftermath of the climax was not too messy :-)
|Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||Casper Bang||9/9/11 12:35 PM|
|Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||Cédric Beust ♔||9/9/11 1:02 PM|
Bak is certainly a VM expert but I'm a bit concerned by Gilad's infatuation with all things Smalltalk. I wonder if he'll have allowed some compromises in that area.
|Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||phil swenson||9/9/11 3:56 PM|
what's wrong with smalltalk?
2011/9/9 Cédric Beust ♔ <ced...@beust.com>:> --
|Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||opinali||9/9/11 7:00 PM|
Now the irony is that Android has already made JavaME obsolete, and if Google is forced to go "Plan B" like above and succeeds, that would make the rest of Java obsolete in the mobile space. And I don't see this being any good for Oracle in the long term.
|Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||Cédric Beust ♔||9/9/11 10:11 PM|
More information on Dash. I'm not seeing Gilad credited at all in this message, though.
|Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||Russel||9/9/11 11:38 PM|
On Fri, 2011-09-09 at 16:56 -0600, phil swenson wrote:
Nothing technically as a language other than it was image based, leading
It's problem was that it failed to continue to gain traction when Java
Unlike Lisp (which is unique and has a unique position in software), I
|Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||Fabrizio Giudici||9/10/11 12:11 AM|
On 09/10/2011 07:11 AM, Cédric Beust ♔ wrote:
> More information on Dash
> <http://markmail.org/message/uro3jtoitlmq6x7t>. I'm not seeing Gilad
> credited at all in this message, though." Complex web apps ... are struggling against the platform and working
with a language that cannot be tooled and has inherent performance
problems. Even smaller-scale apps written by hobbyist developers have to
navigate a confusing labyrinth of frameworks and incompatible design
long-term. Something must change."
clean break. "
Wow. We don't know how this is genuine from Dash authors, but - to me,
Of course I'm sceptical about the chances that a new language, that in
I've tried to re-google the sentences, but it seems that only that email
|Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||opinali||9/10/11 5:41 AM|
On Saturday, September 10, 2011 2:38:18 AM UTC-4, Russel wrote:On Fri, 2011-09-09 at 16:56 -0600, phil swenson wrote:
I don't think that was the only problem; and it was not an insurmountable problem (e.g. Parcels). Smalltalk was a bit outdated in the OOPL paradigm; for one thing, no visibility rules, so large applications always end up depending on tons of internal methods, always breaking in a new release of the Smalltalk system. (Naming conventions and documentation never worked as a mechanism to prevent abuse from private methods). More: insufficient standardization of core APIs so bad compatibility across vendors; to much reliance on inheritance; no concrete way to express protocols (there was a late proposal to do that - sort of Java interfaces - but it was too late); outdated framework design (start counting the methods in Object, etc.); no mechanisms for large-scale modularization (namespaces were added once again too late... and not sufficient); no support for modern trends like functional programming. Smalltalk could make a comeback but only with very serious fixing to become what is now considered a modern OOPL; by the way, one attempt to do that is Bracha's NewSpeak. So this gives an easy clue about Dart - I don't mean that Dart should be directly derived from NewSpeak, I mean that whatever language Dart is, it should focus on solving problems that we know that its authors consider to be very fundamental.
[and yeah, dynamic typing was also part of Smalltalk's problems ;-) Self and StrongTalk were not enough to fix that.]
|Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||kebernet||9/12/11 11:07 AM|
So, I am just not sure this is that big of a deal. Not for a long time. I think it is good Google is kicking this off. I also think it is GREAT news that they have a less ad-hoc strategy to unify their toolchains (Closure/GWT/etc). As far as the Dart/Dash/Doh! runtime, it might be interesting later, but for the forseeable future, I would rather bet on SPDY and WebM as "big ideas."
If they can make a good run at it, and pull in the GWT linker framework, I can see this making a run at CoffeeScript/ObjectiveJ/etc. But those aren't big targets.
|Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Google's newest programming language: Dart||Xeno||9/15/11 12:04 PM|
Ever heard of Scala? Groovy/Grails? Better yet... ever USED them? Only some of the fastest growing and fastest adopted java languages out there right now. No direction huh? I want some of those tea leaves you've been smoking, Jeeves. Cheerio pip pip.