Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field

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Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field ISanoff 6/3/13 6:33 AM
 
 
 
 
Well, well, well. We sat through all of the meetings about "historical & recreational" uses at Floyd Bennet Field. So out of that comes this brilliant, high brow, environmentally friendly event: 100,000  pounds of tomatoes (see second link for this figure) and thousands of beer saturated revelers who will throw them at each other, then "wash up". And where, oh where, will all of this acid saturated water go? Why, all over environmentally sensitive Floyd Bennet Field, of course! But I guess there is a bright side: The stench of leftover rot  (hey, you can't clean up every smidgen of 100,000 pounds of tomato sauce) and spilled beer will surely attract loads of flies.
Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Barbara & Mickey Maxwell Cohen 6/3/13 7:08 AM
What an insult to our citizens who cannot afford a tomato to bear witness to such an event! For the National Park Service to encourage such an activity on a Gateway site, in addition to the obscene entrance fee of $50!  is unconscionable.
Barbara and Mickey Cohen

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Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field ISanoff 6/3/13 7:12 AM
But all we do is complain among ourselves & NPS could care less. It's time for them to be held accountable. They are the keepers of this
natural resource & all they have done is sell out to whomever waves a dollar.
RE: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Bill Woodroffe 6/3/13 9:04 AM

Nothing new. NPS is deaf to anyone without $$$$. Don't know why they can't do this in Central Park, Battery Park City, or DUMBO where it will be closer to the intended participants. On the other hand, for Fifty Bucks it would be worth it if the NPS management were forced to attend.

 

Bill  

 

From: jamai...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jamai...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of isa...@aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 10:12 AM
To: jamai...@googlegroups.com

RE: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Karen Orlando 6/3/13 9:19 AM

NPS seems allergic to even considering answering questions about accountability at least to citizens and park users that is. Apparently though when it comes to natural gas companies they are so responsive they will help pass laws for the park prior to even the companies introducing their project formally to those citizens and park users. And somehow the new superbureaucracy which is the unaccountable NPS plus NYC government which in tandem gave us a new awesome law for the park is going to be awesome or so I keep reading in the press. Doesn't NPS have laws, management codes or policies that they could at least pretend to adhere to?

Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Don Riepe 6/3/13 12:09 PM
This is something they do in Spain isn't it ? What a terrible waste of food when half the world goes hungry each day. We have a Jamaica Bay Task Force meeting this Thursday at the refuge at 6:30pm.  Let's bring it up for discussion during the Q & A. 
 
Don Riepe 

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Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Andrew Baksh 6/3/13 2:10 PM
All tomatoes used during the event are past ripe and already fated for disposal, making the battle an efficient means of tossing them before their cursed transformation into singing Muppets. This according to one advertisement.  Seems like a waste of time to even bother bringing it up at the Q & A. No?

More importantly (for me) would be when will there be a fix to the West Pond Trail breach and the deep cuts on the East Pond at the South End.
Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Sharon 6/3/13 3:01 PM
Why don't they just compost the tomatoes? This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of! Sharon Seitz



--- On Mon, 6/3/13, Andrew Baksh <birdi...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Andrew Baksh <birdi...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field
To: "jamai...@googlegroups.com" <jamai...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, June 3, 2013, 5:10 PM

All tomatoes used during the event are past ripe and already fated for disposal, making the battle an efficient means of tossing them before their cursed transformation into singing Muppets. This according to one advertisement.  Seems like a waste of time to even bother bringing it up at the Q & A. No?

More importantly (for me) would be when will there be a fix to the West Pond Trail breach and the deep cuts on the East Pond at the South End.


On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Don Riepe <donriepe@gmail.com> wrote:
This is something they do in Spain isn't it ? What a terrible waste of food when half the world goes hungry each day. We have a Jamaica Bay Task Force meeting this Thursday at the refuge at 6:30pm.  Let's bring it up for discussion during the Q & A. 
 
Don Riepe 

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 9:33 AM, isanoff@aol.com <isanoff@aol.com> wrote:
 
 
 
 
Well, well, well. We sat through all of the meetings about "historical & recreational" uses at Floyd Bennet Field. So out of that comes this brilliant, high brow, environmentally friendly event: 100,000  pounds of tomatoes (see second link for this figure) and thousands of beer saturated revelers who will throw them at each other, then "wash up". And where, oh where, will all of this acid saturated water go? Why, all over environmentally sensitive Floyd Bennet Field, of course! But I guess there is a bright side: The stench of leftover rot  (hey, you can't clean up every smidgen of 100,000 pounds of tomato sauce) and spilled beer will surely attract loads of flies.

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Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Karen Orlando 6/3/13 3:28 PM

There is probably a winwin solution to all of this. Like a team of volunteers can build a tomato pond afterwards over at floyd bennett for the birds. You just need to think outside of the box. Get a little creative when you define what nature might be in the context of an urban setting or what "improves" the park. How many food truck vendors and corporate ceo's will be attending the meeting? They could get results possibly.

Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Don Riepe 6/3/13 5:44 PM
They could still make sauce, no?  Yes, we will be addressing the ponds at the meeting this Thursday. Don
Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field AviL...@aol.com 6/3/13 9:21 PM
I can't imagine why the questions would be mutually exclusive.  The tomato event is outrageous, even if mostly symbolically, but so is the nonchalance on restoring the ponds; questions should be asked about both!
 
-Avi
 
In a message dated 6/3/2013 5:10:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, birdi...@gmail.com writes:
All tomatoes used during the event are past ripe and already fated for disposal, making the battle an efficient means of tossing them before their cursed transformation into singing Muppets. This according to one advertisement.  Seems like a waste of time to even bother bringing it up at the Q & A. No?

More importantly (for me) would be when will there be a fix to the West Pond Trail breach and the deep cuts on the East Pond at the South End.


 
Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Parks...@aol.com 6/4/13 8:53 AM

The event planned here is an outrage and an insult to the local communities, the American people and also the National Park Service staff, who for many years have worked hard (often under adverse conditions) to preserve the natural and historic resources  that Gateway National Recreation Area, as a unit of the National Park Service, is mandated to protect.

As described:

Throwing tomatoes is a universal sign of chagrin, from hecklers pelting bad comedians to gradeschoolers squirting ketchup during wrong words at spelling bees. Launch a meaningful attack with this Groupon.

$25 for Tomato-Fight Admission ($50.98 Value)

Tomato Battle contestants gather at Floyd Bennett Field on Saturday, July 20, starting at noon. Live entertainment and a costume contest get crowds amped up for the fight, which starts at 4 p.m., and festivities last until 6 p.m. In the event of a tomato shortage, the festival will go on as planned but will be transformed into a mud battle.

Tomato Battle

At each of several one-day festivals held throughout the country, thousands of revelers unite in an epic clash of pulp, beer, and live music. Armed with a cache of 300,000 tomatoes, participants don protective bathing suits and goggles and hurl the fruit at one another during a two-hour battle. Throughout the afternoon, live music and costume contests offer an entertaining respite from the front lines, as bartenders dispense drafts of beer to attendees older than 21, refueling soldiers' morale before they resign to writing goodbye letters to their produce vendors back home. All tomatoes used during the event are past ripe and already fated for disposal, making the battle an efficient means of tossing them before their cursed transformation into singing Muppets.”

 

1)    The event clearly poses a threat to the ecosystem. Ida mentions flies!! What other wildlife and natural habitat will be impacted directly and indirectly from this melee?

It is stated that if the supply of tomatoes is exhausted, there would be a mud battle.

What will be the impact on an already stressed terrain?

          This orgy of intoxicated behavior is not optimal for resource stewardship.

(One should note that some of the traditional participants in activities on the site, such as the Native American attendees at the annual Powwow  whose ceremonies and activity  traditionally offer a bridge between the human and the environment have expressed concern with the deterioration  in recent years of the environment here, and this was before Sandy).

 

 

2)    The precedent here is abominable. If NPS allows such a disruptive event, how can it then reject requests for other similar uses? We may see a reemergence of the Borough President’s suggestion to host a “Burning Man” event. And why not Paintball, auto racing, etc?

Many have protested the intrusion of the natural gas pipeline in the park, and the signal that that rendered, with concerns for further non-historic, inappropriate use. Well, here it is!

 

3)    The signal this event sends to some of the general public  is profoundly negative and provides the impression  that this is a place to come for projectile interaction with fruits, vegetables and whatever else one can bring along.

The publicity the event could generate, especially in the YouTube viral world of today, would certainly convey a message that such activity is acceptable (and even encouraged) here.

The activity is presented in terms of a sanctioned assault, providing incentive for consideration of the park as an area for provocative behavior that might easily inspire those energized for turf challenge contests that can easily escalate from “horsing around” to gang related contests.

This kind of subsequent activity would make the Park a more dangerous place, then requiring more staffing to discourage copycat behavior and creative alternate versions that would arise.

4)    One of the purposes of urban National Recreation Areas has been to serve underserved adjacent communities and populations without resources to travel to Yellowstone or Yosemite (and indeed here the campground activity was designed to provide  a special natural National Park experience) yet here we have a profoundly negative  and grossly insensitive, disruptive activity, splattering the concepts and reality of a National Park.

There is also an appalling disconnect with the surrounding communities of the city where many residents struggle in these difficult economic times to provide food for their families, residents who could not afford to purchase a quantity of tomatoes for their dinner table, let alone purchase a ticket for this economically exclusive activity. We are living in a time when the lines at soup kitchens and food pantries in the city are long, and supplies quickly depleted, and here we have waste on a grand scale!

5)    As for the question  of NPS policies, management codes and laws, what is projected here  is certainly a blatant violation of the spirit and letter of the laws, although we must note that Gateway does not yet have the new General Management Plan that we would hope would prevent consideration of an activity such as this, but given the incompetence and arrogance of the planning effort that many have observed, we may have to fight to ensure that the document truly protects the Park for which so many, including both staff and the public, have worked so hard for so many years.

 

6)    On the level of the staffing one thinks of Regina McCarthy, Dave Taft, and so many others in the Park Service who have worked tirelessly to further our appreciation  for the special resources of the Park, and then the committed members of this listserv and many others from throughout the city and region, scholars, researchers, scientists, birders,  fishermen, aircraft aficionados and restorers, military and local  historians  and others who have so diligently dedicated time  out of their lives to preserve rare, stressed resources that exist here, and then  to see that we are all confronted with  this blatantly destructive  action.

It is a national disgrace!!

 

Someone may feebly say that the Park will receive funds in compensation for this intrusion…. But what is the true price of such a transaction?

 
In a message dated 6/3/2013 12:19:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, orlan...@gmail.com writes:

NPS seems allergic to even considering answering questions about accountability at least to citizens and park users that is. Apparently though when it comes to natural gas companies they are so responsive they will help pass laws for the park prior to even the companies introducing their project formally to those citizens and park users. And somehow the new superbureaucracy which is the unaccountable NPS plus NYC government which in tandem gave us a new awesome law for the park is going to be awesome or so I keep reading in the press. Doesn't NPS have laws, management codes or policies that they could at least pretend to adhere to?

On Jun 3, 2013 12:04 PM, "Bill Woodroffe" <whwsa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nothing new. NPS is deaf to anyone without $$$$. Don't know why they can't do this in Central Park, Battery Park City, or DUMBO where it will be closer to the intended participants. On the other hand, for Fifty Bucks it would be worth it if the NPS management were forced to attend.

 

Bill  

 

From: jamai...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jamai...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of isa...@aol.com


Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 10:12 AM
To: jamai...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field

 

But all we do is complain among ourselves & NPS could care less. It's time for them to be held accountable. They are the keepers of this

natural resource & all they have done is sell out to whomever waves a dollar.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cohen, Barbara and Mickey <bmco...@gmail.com>
To: jamaica-bay <jamai...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 3, 2013 10:08 am
Subject: Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field

What an insult to our citizens who cannot afford a tomato to bear witness to such an event! For the National Park Service to encourage such an activity on a Gateway site, in addition to the obscene entrance fee of $50!  is unconscionable.

Barbara and Mickey Cohen

RE: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Bill Woodroffe 6/4/13 12:53 PM

To be fair, this is not a NPS event. It is at Aviator Sports. Of course, Aviator., like all concessionaries, offers services that the NPS sanctions and supposedly overseas and regulates. That of course is the crux of the matter as the NPS get $$$ from Aviator and the more they make, so does the NPS. This apparently is not a fund raiser or any other direct income to the NPS (assumption) only the organizers and Aviator will benifit and there is no incentive for the NPS to reduce their income.  

 

From: jamai...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jamai...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Parks...@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 11:53 AM

RE: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Sharon 6/4/13 12:57 PM
So Aviator doesn't share any of the money with NPS from this event? Sounds like Aviator is running the show at the park. Where exactly is the event taking place? In the Aviator parking lot or thereabouts? Just sounds like a big mess and a bad precedent. Sharon Seitz



--- On Tue, 6/4/13, Bill Woodroffe <whwsa...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Bill Woodroffe <whwsa...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field
To: jamai...@googlegroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 4, 2013, 3:53 PM

In a message dated 6/3/2013 12:19:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, orlandoka77@gmail.com writes:

NPS seems allergic to even considering answering questions about accountability at least to citizens and park users that is. Apparently though when it comes to natural gas companies they are so responsive they will help pass laws for the park prior to even the companies introducing their project formally to those citizens and park users. And somehow the new superbureaucracy which is the unaccountable NPS plus NYC government which in tandem gave us a new awesome law for the park is going to be awesome or so I keep reading in the press. Doesn't NPS have laws, management codes or policies that they could at least pretend to adhere to?

On Jun 3, 2013 12:04 PM, "Bill Woodroffe" <whwsailboat@gmail.com> wrote:

Nothing new. NPS is deaf to anyone without $$$$. Don't know why they can't do this in Central Park, Battery Park City, or DUMBO where it will be closer to the intended participants. On the other hand, for Fifty Bucks it would be worth it if the NPS management were forced to attend.

 

Bill  

 

From: jamaica-bay@googlegroups.com [mailto:jamaica-bay@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of isanoff@aol.com


Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 10:12 AM
To: jamaica-bay@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field

 

But all we do is complain among ourselves & NPS could care less. It's time for them to be held accountable. They are the keepers of this

natural resource & all they have done is sell out to whomever waves a dollar.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cohen, Barbara and Mickey <bmcohen2@gmail.com>
To: jamaica-bay <jamaica-bay@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 3, 2013 10:08 am
Subject: Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field

What an insult to our citizens who cannot afford a tomato to bear witness to such an event! For the National Park Service to encourage such an activity on a Gateway site, in addition to the obscene entrance fee of $50!  is unconscionable.

Barbara and Mickey Cohen

 

On Jun 3, 2013, at 9:33 AM, isanoff@aol.com wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Well, well, well. We sat through all of the meetings about "historical & recreational" uses at Floyd Bennet Field. So out of that comes this brilliant, high brow, environmentally friendly event: 100,000  pounds of tomatoes (see second link for this figure) and thousands of beer saturated revelers who will throw them at each other, then "wash up". And where, oh where, will all of this acid saturated water go? Why, all over environmentally sensitive Floyd Bennet Field, of course! But I guess there is a bright side: The stench of leftover rot  (hey, you can't clean up every smidgen of 100,000 pounds of tomato sauce) and spilled beer will surely attract loads of flies.

 

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RE: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Bill Woodroffe 6/4/13 1:31 PM

This looks like a someone's idea to make money. They use Eventbrite which gets 2.5% + $0.99/ticket, zenbox, facbook, twitter etc to "organize" the event. It is publicized as being at Aviator Sports and Aviator shows it as:

Quote,

Aviator Sports is excited to annouce the arrival of the NYC Tomato Battle on July 20, 2013!

Massive tomato fights with thousands of people and tons of tomatoes. Live music, beer, tomatoes....what more could you ask for? 

What to expect:

- Up to 100,000 lbs of tomatoes and thousands of people to throw them!

- Live music & games

- Beer (for those 21+)

- One hell of a time!

Schedule:

Noon - Registration begins & beer garden opens

1:00 PM - Live Music and games

3:30 PM - Costume Contest

4:00 PM - Tomato Battle begins

4:30 PM - Live Music

6:00 PM - Washup and head home!

Visit www.tomatobattle.com for more info.

 

Unquote

 

From: jamai...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jamai...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Seitz
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 3:58 PM
To: jamai...@googlegroups.com


Subject: RE: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field

 

So Aviator doesn't share any of the money with NPS from this event? Sounds like Aviator is running the show at the park. Where exactly is the event taking place? In the Aviator parking lot or thereabouts? Just sounds like a big mess and a bad precedent. Sharon Seitz



--- On Tue, 6/4/13, Bill Woodroffe <whwsa...@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Bill Woodroffe <whwsa...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field
To: jamai...@googlegroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 4, 2013, 3:53 PM

To be fair, this is not a NPS event. It is at Aviator Sports. Of course, Aviator., like all concessionaries, offers services that the NPS sanctions and supposedly overseas and regulates. That of course is the crux of the matter as the NPS get $$$ from Aviator and the more they make, so does the NPS. This apparently is not a fund raiser or any other direct income to the NPS (assumption) only the organizers and Aviator will benifit and there is no incentive for the NPS to reduce their income.  

 

...
Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field ISanoff 6/5/13 5:57 AM
Doesn't matter who is running the event. NPS is the landlord & they are supposed to be protecting the park and its resources. But its been clear over the last few years that they are just standing back & letting whoever has deep pockets have the run of the place.
 
So let's see, the folks who were handed two of the historic hangers for their gas metering station agreed to do a little  cosmetic work on the exterior of the hangers. I'm sure that the Tomato People don't have as much money as a gas company, so maybe NPS is only getting a couple of Home Depot gift certificates.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Seitz <oog...@yahoo.com>
To: jamaica-bay <jamai...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 3:57 pm
Subject: RE: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field

So Aviator doesn't share any of the money with NPS from this event? Sounds like Aviator is running the show at the park. Where exactly is the event taking place? In the Aviator parking lot or thereabouts? Just sounds like a big mess and a bad precedent. Sharon Seitz



--- On Tue, 6/4/13, Bill Woodroffe <whwsa...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Bill Woodroffe <whwsa...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field
To: jamai...@googlegroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 4, 2013, 3:53 PM

To be fair, this is not a NPS event. It is at Aviator Sports. Of course, Aviator., like all concessionaries, offers services that the NPS sanctions and supposedly overseas and regulates. That of course is the crux of the matter as the NPS get $$$ from Aviator and the more they make, so does the NPS. This apparently is not a fund raiser or any other direct income to the NPS (assumption) only the organizers and Aviator will benifit and there is no incentive for the NPS to reduce their income.  
 
Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Joseph McCabe 7/19/13 8:53 AM
Are you people that ignorant...how many times does it have to say that the tomatoes used were not for consumption...you angry idiots are really clueless
Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Joseph McCabe 7/19/13 9:29 AM
First of all you know nothing of what Aviator pays the NPS so that comment is wrong....its not a big mess its actually going to be big fun something you angry people need to look into ...how can you be so critical of something that is so much fun...you angry people are whats wrong with this world...lighten up people
RE: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Bill Woodroffe 7/19/13 10:31 AM

Yes, we all must lighten up and get drunk for the good of sport and supporting Tide detergent. After all, that is what our National Parks are for. So what if the event flies in the face of what the National Park needs. Maybe in another 20 years they can hold it at the Riis Park Bath House if it reopens by then.

 

Bill

 

From: jamai...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jamai...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of joema...@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 12:30 PM
To: jamai...@googlegroups.com
Cc: oog...@yahoo.com

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Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Sharon 7/19/13 11:21 AM
I didn't say I knew what Aviator gives NPS. I was asking if anyone knew. Just a kind clarification. And anyone who knows me, knows I'm loads of fun! Sharon Seitz

 




From: Bill Woodroffe <whwsa...@gmail.com>
To: jamai...@googlegroups.com
Cc: oog...@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 1:31 PM
Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Karen Orlando 7/19/13 2:37 PM

Personally I am holding off until this amazing trend gets bigger and better with a wider variety of foods to throw, both hot and cold or even just a wider variety of tomato products.  I think it might be fun to see luncheon meats hanging from peoples faces but if that meat is spoiled than maybe not so much. http://massivo.org/ so I read the times article which linked to this massivo (big big fun) .org site. Quoted some guy as the ceo. When I first saw the groupon I thought it was a hoax. So massivo.org. Is it a company or non-profit? Weird.

The event is like listed everywhere.

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RE: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Bill Woodroffe 7/19/13 3:29 PM

It’s about creating a buzz; especially a buzz that will attract a target audience with money to spend. The Great NYC Tomato Fight will not attract senior citizens, environmentalists, hard core National Park supporters or those…LOL…who dislike beer. I’m not trying to be an elitist in this but the concern that I have is that our National Parks, and much of our public spaces, are forced to participate in these things (and I can be reasonably confident that Aviator’s concession contract specifies an income to the NPS – otherwise it would be a scandalous giveaway of public space). Perhaps a night of Met Opera would be personally more appealing but the underlying grovel for money would be the same, just a different audience. Maybe I’ll wait for the Big Food Fight with Karen.

 

Bill

 

 

From: jamai...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jamai...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Orlando
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 5:37 PM
To: Jamaica Bay
Cc: oog...@yahoo.com

Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field regina mccarthy 7/23/13 10:00 AM
I take offense when terms like 'you people'  and 'you angry people' are used.  joema...@gmail.com
I hope u don't work for Aviator or NPS because this is not a civil way of speaking.
 
As for the event.  It looks like Jersey Shore meets Flatbush Ave.  If it was on their official space and then cleaned up nothing more you can do.  Just as long as the preserved areas are honored there really isn't much that can be done at this point.
Regina McCarthy
 
Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field regina mccarthy 7/23/13 3:46 PM
The Dept of Ed(then Board of Ed) had a cooperative agreement for a program they jointly ran at Building 272.  Gateway Environmental Study Center.  Don't have it handy but I recall specifics being spelled out in terms of what we could do. 
Mostly about natural resources and specimens,.
 
I am sure they have one with Aviator sports.  It should be something for public viewing under the freedom of information act.  If it has no restrictions then we certainly have a right to voice our opinions.  In the mean time I'll look for that cooperative agreement but I doubt if I would have held on to it.
Regina McCarthy
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Orlando <orlan...@gmail.com>
RE: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Bill Woodroffe 7/23/13 6:00 PM

Believe Aviator Sports operates under a concession contract:

Aviator Development Company, LLC

c/o: Aviator Sports and Recreation, LLC

15 East 26th Street, Suite 1803, WEC New York, NY 10010
212-302-9790 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 
skype-ie-addon-data://res/numbers_button_skype_logo.png212-302-9790 FREE  end_of_the_skype_highlighting

Services: Food Service Operations; Retail Operations; Winter Sports Operations

 

see: http://www.nps.gov/commercialservices/index.htm

 

Note that concessions operate under the business department of the NPS and NOT under the park rangers etc. As such they do not respond to what you may consider park activities. The usual 10 year contracts may or may not be available thru FOI as they can claim propriety information. In any case, the public (park users) are not normally invited or queried as to the operation of concessions. If the concession makes money the NPS assumes they are serving the public. The NPS business division relies on its own resources to monitor activities and ensures that the contract is fulfilled. This is of course a conflict of interest as concessions are an income stream that may conflict with the purpose of the park. Restricting concession income is not a desirable option. 

 

From: jamai...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jamai...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Regina McCarthy
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:46 PM

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Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Karen Orlando 7/24/13 7:40 PM
I have been to a ton of events in prospect park band shell in the summer. All allowed alcohol in some capacity. Some were movies. Others concerts. Many drew large numbers of people. Never once was there a scheduled food fight. 


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:00 PM, Bill Woodroffe <whwsa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Believe Aviator Sports operates under a concession contract:

Aviator Development Company, LLC

c/o: Aviator Sports and Recreation, LLC

15 East 26th Street, Suite 1803, WEC New York, NY 10010
212-302-9790 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 
skype-ie-addon-data://res/numbers_button_skype_logo.png212-302-9790 FREE  end_of_the_skype_highlighting

Services: Food Service Operations; Retail Operations; Winter Sports Operations

 

see: http://www.nps.gov/commercialservices/index.htm

 

Note that concessions operate under the business department of the NPS and NOT under the park rangers etc. As such they do not respond to what you may consider park activities. The usual 10 year contracts may or may not be available thru FOI as they can claim propriety information. In any case, the public (park users) are not normally invited or queried as to the operation of concessions. If the concession makes money the NPS assumes they are serving the public. The NPS business division relies on its own resources to monitor activities and ensures that the contract is fulfilled. This is of course a conflict of interest as concessions are an income stream that may conflict with the purpose of the park. Restricting concession income is not a desirable option. 

 

From: jamai...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jamai...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Regina McCarthy
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:46 PM


To: jamai...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field

 

The Dept of Ed(then Board of Ed) had a cooperative agreement for a program they jointly ran at Building 272.  Gateway Environmental Study Center.  Don't have it handy but I recall specifics being spelled out in terms of what we could do. 

Mostly about natural resources and specimens,.

 

I am sure they have one with Aviator sports.  It should be something for public viewing under the freedom of information act.  If it has no restrictions then we certainly have a right to voice our opinions.  In the mean time I'll look for that cooperative agreement but I doubt if I would have held on to it.

Regina McCarthy

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Orlando <orlan...@gmail.com>
To: jamaica-bay <jamai...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 3, 2013 12:19 pm
Subject: RE: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field

NPS seems allergic to even considering answering questions about accountability at least to citizens and park users that is. Apparently though when it comes to natural gas companies they are so responsive they will help pass laws for the park prior to even the companies introducing their project formally to those citizens and park users. And somehow the new superbureaucracy which is the unaccountable NPS plus NYC government which in tandem gave us a new awesome law for the park is going to be awesome or so I keep reading in the press. Doesn't NPS have laws, management codes or policies that they could at least pretend to adhere to?

On Jun 3, 2013 12:04 PM, "Bill Woodroffe" <whwsa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nothing new. NPS is deaf to anyone without $$$$. Don't know why they can't do this in Central Park, Battery Park City, or DUMBO where it will be closer to the intended participants. On the other hand, for Fifty Bucks it would be worth it if the NPS management were forced to attend.

 

Bill  

 

From: jamai...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jamai...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of isa...@aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 10:12 AM
To: jamai...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field

 

But all we do is complain among ourselves & NPS could care less. It's time for them to be held accountable. They are the keepers of this

natural resource & all they have done is sell out to whomever waves a dollar.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cohen, Barbara and Mickey <bmco...@gmail.com>
To: jamaica-bay <jamai...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 3, 2013 10:08 am
Subject: Re: [Jamaica Bay] Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field

What an insult to our citizens who cannot afford a tomato to bear witness to such an event! For the National Park Service to encourage such an activity on a Gateway site, in addition to the obscene entrance fee of $50!  is unconscionable.

Barbara and Mickey Cohen

 

On Jun 3, 2013, at 9:33 AM, isa...@aol.com wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Well, well, well. We sat through all of the meetings about "historical & recreational" uses at Floyd Bennet Field. So out of that comes this brilliant, high brow, environmentally friendly event: 100,000  pounds of tomatoes (see second link for this figure) and thousands of beer saturated revelers who will throw them at each other, then "wash up". And where, oh where, will all of this acid saturated water go? Why, all over environmentally sensitive Floyd Bennet Field, of course! But I guess there is a bright side: The stench of leftover rot  (hey, you can't clean up every smidgen of 100,000 pounds of tomato sauce) and spilled beer will surely attract loads of flies.

 

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Re: Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Andy Damiano 11/10/13 12:12 AM
Re: Another insult to Floyd Bennet Field Andy Damiano 11/10/13 1:10 AM
My 1st time posting any where , I hope it reaches the NPS ,I read that the NPS plants to charge 50 dollar for people to throw tomatoes in FB FIELD ,well I purchase a national park pass this year cost me 75 dollars so if they want me  ok with them maybe they would like it if I throw seeds of plants in the other N parks as well . Maybe this will secure more jobs for there off spring working in NPS for a long time . Hey NPS how well are you doing removing invasive plants in death valley NP ?, doe's 76 invasive  plants come to mind? Hey NPS how are things going with  INTRODUCED seeds in the island NP off of California . Lets not forget Hawaiian islands .The control of invasive plants should be easy for F...@%ks  sake its an island get some people in NPS over there and remove the plants that are threating native plants, land in there airport and travel 30 mins before you see a native plant.  And while NPS is out I hope they drop in on Yellowstone take a close look at the native  trumpeter swans  there and then see the invasive mute swans  ask your self if it came from the  Jamaica Bay invasive swan population that causing problems. And why doe's your NP hand outs mention unlawful to introduce plants and animals ? .   
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