fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013)

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fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Greg Ercolano 4/24/13 11:49 AM
	Mike tells me the fltk server is down, and down hard,
	and with it went several sites he's been managing.

	Until the site's back up, svn, STRs, the forums etc.
	will be unavailable.

	He's trying to arrange a changeover and restoration..
	no eta yet.

	Keep an eye on this space for details.
Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Ian MacArthur 4/25/13 1:34 AM
Greg,
 
I'm suddenly struck by the title here (May 23 2013)...
 
Is that a typo for April 23, or perhaps a prediction of when we expect to be "back to normal"!  ;-)
 
Cheers,
--
Ian
 
 
RE: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) MacArthur, Ian (Selex ES, UK) 4/25/13 2:05 AM
This is partly a test to see if I can post directly from my email here, rather than via the web interface (I'm not that familiar with Google groups...)

And partly to ask if we should be widening the scope of who's in? I see that Sanel Z has emailed various parties directly, and Michael Baeuerle also emailed me direct...

What's the thinking on this?

Cheers,
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Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Greg Ercolano 4/25/13 8:14 AM
On 04/25/13 02:05, MacArthur, Ian (Selex ES, UK) wrote:
> This is partly a test to see if I can post directly from my email here, rather than via the web interface (I'm not that familiar with Google groups...)
>
> And partly to ask if we should be widening the scope of who's in? I see that Sanel Z has emailed various parties directly, and Michael Baeuerle also emailed me direct...
>
> What's the thinking on this?

        Me, Mike, and Matt are brainstorming what to do.

        Mike tells me there's backups of svn, the website, and the
        STR dbase, but not the newsgroups, and not the attachments
        for the STRs.

        I think we can resurrect the newsgroups from the web; gmane has
        a copy, so I was looking at what they have. That might be some
        work though, as they've rethreaded the articles, so it'd take some
        unix scripting to get the messages renumbered and the headers restored..
        Would you be up for that?

        The str attachments sound like the toughest thing.. that might be
        a loss unless we can find a way to get them back.

        I'm investigating where to put the site.

        Sourceforge and seriss.com are two options available to me.

        I'm investigating the details of the latter at the moment; need to see
        if they'll let me host svn over HTTP so we can continue to use the
        "svn co http:" approach to managing svn.

        The rest of the site's stuff, php, mysql, newsgroups I think are already
        available as services on the site, no extra config needed that isn't
        under my own control.

        Will follow up.


--
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Seriss Corporation
Rush Render Queue, http://seriss.com/rush/

Tel: +1 626-576-0010 ext.23
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Re: fltk.org server outage (*Apr* 23 2013) Greg Ercolano 4/25/13 8:15 AM
        Oops, yes, that's a typo. I guess my head is already in May :P
Re: fltk.org server outage (*Apr* 23 2013) Georg Potthast 4/25/13 11:11 PM
I was wondering what happened to the FLTK site and why it takes so long to restore it. So now I know a bit about it.

I found FlDev and tried to compile that with FLTK 1.3.0. This is more difficult than I expected. It uses Fl_Text_Buffer a lot and members of Fl_Text_Buffer that do no longer exist, like character, character_width, null_substitution_character, expand_character etc.

What do I have to do to get that working?

Georg Potthast




Re: fltk.org server outage (*Apr* 23 2013) mm 4/26/13 12:19 AM
Fltk 1.3 moved from ASCII to UTF-8 encoding (from a purely English set of letters to a worldwide system). Many text-related functions changed internally. Fl_Text_Buffer and Fl_Text_Editor have been largely rewritten to support the new text system in a way, that is almost transparent to the outside.

On the inside however, much changed. Particularly, a character is now no longer one byte long, but can be up to six bytes long. Everything that access the internals of Fl_Text_Buffer needs to be aware of those changes and needs to be verified or rewritten.

If you have specific questions, I'll be happy to answer them here.

 - Matthias
Re: compiling FLDEV with FLTK 1.3.0 Georg Potthast 4/26/13 8:23 AM
Hi Matthias,

thank you for your message. I had hoped eventually there would be a Fl_Text_Buffer_A class which would be compatible to the old one. ;-)

I just tried to compile the code with 1.3.0 and do not understand it yet. So I can just post the parts that do not compile and thus make a "Request for Comment"

1.)
ch = buf->character( p ); // I assume this can be replaced with ch = buf->char_at(p);

2.)
indent += Fl_Text_Buffer::character_width( ch, indent, buf->tab_distance(), buf->null_substitution_character() );
Here we have character_width() and null_substition_character() both are no longer available.

3.)
charLen = Fl_Text_Buffer::expand_character( lineStr[ charIndex ], outIndex, expandedChar,
             mBuffer->tab_distance(), mBuffer->null_substitution_character() );
Here expand_character() is used which is no more available..

4.)
return buf->primary_selection()->includes(pos, buf->line_start( pos ), column);
Here gpp complains that "->includes()" would have only one argument now.

5.)
int My_Text_Display::range_touches_selection(Fl_Text_Selection *sel,
    int rangeStart, int rangeEnd) {
    return sel->selected() && sel->rectangular() && sel->end() >= rangeStart &&
 sel->start() <= rangeEnd;
}
The compiler says here:
error: 'class Fl_Text_Selection' has no member named 'rectangular'

Any suggestions how to rewrite this?

Georg
Re: compiling FLDEV with FLTK 1.3.0 mm 4/26/13 9:25 AM

On 26.04.2013, at 17:23, Georg Potthast <dos...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi Matthias,
>
> thank you for your message. I had hoped eventually there would be a Fl_Text_Buffer_A class which would be compatible to the old one. ;-)
>
> I just tried to compile the code with 1.3.0 and do not understand it yet. So I can just post the parts that do not compile and thus make a "Request for Comment"
>
> 1.)
> ch = buf->character( p ); // I assume this can be replaced with ch = buf->char_at(p);

Yes, but char_at() must be at a UTF8 boundary (it usually is), and it returns a unicode character (32 bit instead of 8).

> 2.)
> indent += Fl_Text_Buffer::character_width( ch, indent, buf->tab_distance(), buf->null_substitution_character() );
> Here we have character_width() and null_substition_character() both are no longer available.

The NUL character is the end of the text, so there is no logical replacement for it. 1.1 allowed a NUL character, but I did not see the use, and it seemed to confuse users.

 * in Unicode, there are no fixed width fonts! Even if the ASCII characters may
   happen to be all the same width in pixels, chinese charcaters surely are not.
   There are plenty of exceptions, like ligatures, that make special handling of
   "fixed" character widths a nightmare. I decided to remove all references to
   fixed fonts and see "columns" as a multiple of the average width of a
   character in the main font.

Use double Fl_Text_Display::string_width( const char *string, int length, int style ) const instead.

> 3.)
> charLen = Fl_Text_Buffer::expand_character( lineStr[ charIndex ], outIndex, expandedChar,
>              mBuffer->tab_distance(), mBuffer->null_substitution_character() );
> Here expand_character() is used which is no more available..

Yes, and it is no longer needed. In 1.1, BEL for example would be replaced by the string "BEL". In UTF-8, a little bell may appear (or not, depending on your character set).

> 4.)
> return buf->primary_selection()->includes(pos, buf->line_start( pos ), column);
> Here gpp complains that "->includes()" would have only one argument now.

Yes. includes() with three arguments was only useful in column selection. With proportional (non monospaced) fonts, column selection does not make much sense and the feature was dropped. In Unicode, all characters a proportional (even in a seemingly monospaced font, Chinese character just *must* be wider for example)

> 5.)
> int My_Text_Display::range_touches_selection(Fl_Text_Selection *sel,
>     int rangeStart, int rangeEnd) {
>     return sel->selected() && sel->rectangular() && sel->end() >= rangeStart &&
>  sel->start() <= rangeEnd;
> }
> The compiler says here:
> error: 'class Fl_Text_Selection' has no member named 'rectangular'

See 4.)

> Any suggestions how to rewrite this?

If you really REALLY need column selection, you'd have to either import the 1.1 classes and name them Fl_ASCII_Text_Buffer, etc., or you'd have to write something that looks like column selection from scratch.

Hope that helps.

 - Matthias
Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Greg Ercolano 4/26/13 10:04 AM
OK, just talked to Carl Thompson this morning; he's got the keys to the fltk.org domain
and is working on redirecting the domain to our working server.

There seems to be a hiccup in that change, though; at the moment; fltk.org is showing a godaddy unparked domain page,
which definitely isn't right, so I've sent emails and left voice mail to let him know.. hopefully he can fix that, as I don't currently have admin control of the DNS config yet. I think Carl just started what sounded like a busy work day for him, so not sure how quickly he'll be able to fix this.

Anyway, please ignore the godaddy page.. trying to get that resolved.

Re: compiling FLDEV with FLTK 1.3.0 Georg Potthast 4/26/13 11:32 AM
Thank you very much Matthias!

After reading your post I think it is better to leave the conversion of an ASCII editor to Unicode to the FLTK developers. ;-)

I found that an older version, FlDev 0.5.4, still uses the standard Fl_Text_Display and Fl_Editor code and that worked much better with FLTK 1.3.0. There are still other problems, not related to Fl_Text_Buffer, but I think I will be able to fix those.

Georg

Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Georg Potthast 4/26/13 11:36 AM
Greg,

I hope this does not mean that the "fltk.org" domain had been released and is taken over by some other company.

Georg
Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Greg Ercolano 4/26/13 2:36 PM
Hi Georg,

        No, it's just the domain's DNS hasn't changed over yet.

        Need Carl to double check what happened, but I get the
        feeling we won't be able to get his attention until
        this evening.
Re: compiling FLDEV with FLTK 1.3.0 mm 4/27/13 2:06 AM

Yes. That is probably a good plan. I will not have any time to look at FlDev before June... .





Georg Potthast <dos...@googlemail.com> schrieb:

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Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) mm 4/27/13 2:06 AM

Greg. Thabks so much for all your work!





Greg Ercolano <er...@seriss.com> schrieb:

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Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Sanel Zukan 4/27/13 3:13 AM
Awesome job!

Because of reasons like this (bad hardware failure and etc.), I'm going to restart my love toward tools like Fossil (http://fossil-scm.org).

Are you considering some remote backup facility?

Sanel
Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Greg Ercolano 4/27/13 4:48 AM
I think the backup solution would be to just include backups of /all/ the data ;>
and have this data regularly copied to a remote location.

Certainly /some/ of the data should really not be "public", such as
password files for the dev accounts. The fewer people that have to see
that stuff the better, security-wise.

Not sure what the right 'remote backup' procedure should be, if the admins
agree on a crontab "pull" strategy that alternate in yanking the tar files
to our home machines, or if we find some high bandwidth data store that
we regularly write to with encrypted tars.

At seriss I have tar backups that I pull, but I also know the provider,
pair.com, keeps backups on their own, so if a box dies, they automatically
restore everything to a new box, and you never know what happened.
Pair's been amazing; managed websites since '96 with them, and whenever
a box went down, they handled everything to get it back up exactly
the way it was.


On 04/27/13 03:13, Sanel Zukan wrote:
> Awesome job!
>
> Because of reasons like this (bad hardware failure and etc.), I'm going to
> restart my love toward tools like Fossil (http://fossil-scm.org).
>
> Are you considering some remote backup facility?
>
> Sanel
>
> On Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:06:58 AM UTC+2, mm wrote:
>
>     Greg. Thabks so much for all your work!
>
>     Greg Ercolano <er...@seriss.com <javascript:>> schrieb:
>
>         OK, just talked to Carl Thompson this morning; he's got the keys to the fltk.org <http://fltk.org> domain
>         and is working on redirecting the domain to our working server.
>
>         There seems to be a hiccup in that change, though; at the moment; fltk.org <http://fltk.org> is showing a godaddy unparked domain page,
>         which definitely isn't right, so I've sent emails and left voice mail to let him know.. hopefully he can fix that, as I don't currently have admin control of the DNS config yet. I think Carl just started what sounded like a busy work day for him, so not sure how quickly he'll be able to fix this.
>
>         Anyway, please ignore the godaddy page.. trying to get that resolved.
>
>
>     --
>     Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Mobiltelefon mit Kaiten Mail gesendet.
>
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Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Greg Ercolano 4/27/13 6:09 AM
OK, so now fltk.org is redirecting to the virtual domain I've set up,
so the emergency webpage is showing.. that's good.

This also means all email to *@fltk.org is coming to my site too,
which means.. OH GOD THE SPAM, THE SPAM
FML, Mike how did you deal with all the spaaaaam?   D8

I guess the answer is this all must've been managed with mailing list software (mailman?)
which I know almost nothing about. Also, I don't think we have a backup of the mailing list
subscriptions, which means everyone with mailing list subscriptions will have to resubscribe
with whatever we come up with for that..
Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Greg Ercolano 4/27/13 6:19 AM
I've had to redirect all the *@fltk.org mail spigots to append to dead letter files
until I can figure out what to do with the amazing amount of spam it generates.

Re: compiling FLDEV with FLTK 1.3.0 Georg Potthast 4/27/13 6:20 AM
I just want to avoid to be misunderstood. The latest version of FlDev contains My_File_Browser.cpp, My_Text_Display.cpp and My_Text_Editor.cpp. These are modified versions of the standard FLTK classes. Since these classes did not support UTF8 in FLTK 1.1.6 these modified classes again would have to be rewritten to use UTF8. To avoid that I would like to use the new standard FLTK classes instead. Using these is what I meant with leaving the conversion the FLTK developers.

The reason for the other problems seems to be that FlDev uses its own while loop in main instead of Fl::run(). The mouse does not move and the screen is often not drawn properly.

I guess quite a lot of changes would have to be made.

Georg
Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Tim Neumann 4/27/13 7:42 AM
Is there any other known place where one can obtain the current (>=1.3) source of FLTK?

And thanks for all the hard work!
Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Ian MacArthur 4/27/13 8:46 AM

On 27 Apr 2013, at 15:42, finkle...@gmail.com wrote:

> Is there any other known place where one can obtain the current (>=1.3) source of FLTK?


There's a fair chance that svn might be accessible again soonish, I guess.

How *urgently* do you need it?

Greg would likely know best what the timescales might be for that...





Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Greg Ercolano 4/27/13 8:52 AM

Is there any other known place where one can obtain the current (>=1.3) source of FLTK?

Yep, just getting that up now actually.

Please hit "reload" on the fltk.org main page; there are links to tar files and svn access.

The lastest release is 1.3.2, and the tar file is available here:
http://www.fltk.org/tars/releases/fltk-1.3.2-source.tar.gz

Let me know if you have any trouble.
Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Tim Neumann 4/27/13 9:29 AM
Oh, that worked like a charm! Thank you so much for all your work, i was just looking forward to spend the weekend compiling
csound6 with FLTK and I am finally (thanks to you guys) making progress.


2013/4/27 Greg Ercolano <er...@seriss.com>

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Re: fltk.org server outage (May 23 2013) Greg Ercolano 5/8/13 1:29 AM
Ending this thread -- the website is pretty much back up to normal on a new server.

The main changes:

     fltk.general has moved to a google group
     fltk.development has been moved to a google group and renamed fltk.coredev
     fltk.opengl has been closed, in favor of using fltk.general
     fltk.bugs is now /just/ a gateway to the STR system
     All *@fltk.org email addresses have been shut off with autoresponders indicating "the new way"
     The svn access url to FLTK has changed; see the fltk.org "Downloads" page for the new URL
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