someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ...

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someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Harold Trumpett 7/20/12 4:37 PM
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unk...@googlegroups.com 7/20/12 10:59 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Harold Trumpett 7/21/12 12:34 AM
Earlier today, a gunman walked into a movie theater in Aurora,
Colorado, where people were watching the midnight showing of the new
Batman movie. He fired gas canisters into the crowd, and then opened
fire. At least 12 people are dead and 59 people are injured. My heart
and prayers go out to all of them.

On the day Gabby Giffords was shot, I was picking up my son Henry from
a lesson when I got the text message saying there had been a shooting.
I’d campaigned with Gabby in 2006. Henry didn’t understand why I’d
stopped getting into the car and started crying.

Walking back from a haircut the other day, I passed Café Racer, where
on May 30th a gunman walked in and killed four people.

It's time we had an adult conversation in this country about guns.

On January 17, 1989, a gunman in Stockton, California walked onto a
playground and opened fire, killing 5 children and injuring 30 more.

On July 1, 1993, a gunman in San Francisco walked into a law office
and opened fire, killing 8 and injuring 6.

On April 20, 1999, two gunmen in Columbine, Colorado walked into their
high school and opened fire, killing 13 people and injuring 21 others.

On January 16, 2002, a gunman in Virginia walked into a law school and
opened fire, killing 3 and injuring 3.

On July 8, 2003, a gunman in Mississippi walked into a factory and
opened fire, killing 6 and injuring 8.

On March 21, 2005, a gunman in Minnesota walked into a high school and
opened fire, killing 7 and injuring 5.

On November 20, 2005, a gunman in Tacoma walked into the mall and
opened fire, injuring 6.

On March 25, 2006, a gunman in Seattle walked into a party and opened
fire, killing 6 and injuring 2.

On February 12, 2007, a gunman in Utah walked into a mall and opened
fire, killing 5 and injuring 4.

On April 16, 2007, a gunman in Virginia walked onto the Virginia Tech
campus and opened fire, killing 32 people and wounding 17 others.

On December 5, 2007, a gunman in Nebraska walked into a mall and
opened fire, killing 8 and injuring 4.

On December 9, 2007, a gunman in Colorado Springs walked onto a church
parking lot and opened fire, killing 2 and wounding 3.

On February 7, 2008, a gunman in Missouri walked into a city council
meeting and opened fire, killing 5 and wounding 2.

On February 14, 2008, a gunman in Illinois walked onto a college
campus and opened fire, killing 5 and injuring 17.

On June 25, 2008, a gunman in Kentucky walked into a factory and
opened fire, killing 5 and injuring 1.

On January 24, 2009, a gunman in Portland walked up to a nightclub and
opened fire, killing 2 and injuring 7.

On March 29, 2009, a gunman in North Carolina walked into a retirement
home and opened fire, killing 8 and injuring 2.

On August 4, 2009, a gunman in a suburb of Pittsburgh walked into a
fitness club and opened fire, killing 3 and injuring 9.

On November 5, 2009, a gunman at Fort Hood in Texas walked into a
medical center and opened fire, killing 13 and injuring 29.

On November 29, 2009, a gunman in Lakewood, Washington walked into a
coffee shop and killed 4 police officers.

On January 7, 2010, a gunman in St Louis walked into a power plant and
opened fire, killing 3 and injuring 6.

On January 12, 2010, a gunman in Georgia walked into a truck rental
place and opened fire, killing 3 and injuring 2.

On February 12, 2010, a gunwoman in Alabama stood up in a college
faculty meeting and opened fire, killing 3 and injuring 3.

On August 3, 2010, a gunman in Connecticut walked into a warehouse and
opened fire, killing 8 and injuring 2.

On August 7, 2011, a gunman in Ohio broke into his girlfriend’s house
and opened fire, killing 7 and injuring 1.

On September 6, 2011, a gunman in Nevada walked into a pancake
restaurant and opened fire, killing 4 and injuring 7.

On October 5, 2011, a gunman in Cupertino, California walked into a
quarry where people were working and opened fire, killing 3 and
injuring 7.

Sadly, I could go on.

But the numbers don’t tell the stories. These were people. Rachel
Scott was a 17-year-old aspiring writer and actress who wanted to
change the world through small acts of kindness. Dave Sanders was a 47-
year-old teacher and girls basketball coach who was shot and killed
while trying to evacuate students. Cassie Bernall was hiding under a
table praying. Jack Berman was a lawyer who founded a program to help
homeless people find housing. John Scully died while shielding his
newlywed wife with his own body. Drew Keriakedes and Joe Albanese were
musicians with wicked senses of humor. Every one of the hundreds of
people shot in the incidents I list above had dreams and aspirations,
laughed and cried, had friends and neighbors and parents.

As a country, though, we have not had a real conversation about guns
in many, many years. The National Rifle Association (NRA) threatens
the career of any politician who so much as opens the conversation. As
a consequence, our country has not discussed assault weapons – which
have no use except killing large numbers of people in massacres like
the ones I’ve listed. We have not discussed the fact that anyone can
buy a gun at a gun show without any background check, even if they
have a history of criminal violence. We have not discussed the
expiration of the ban on large clips, which allow shooters to kill
more people in a shorter time because they don’t have to reload. We
have not discussed what a sensible, rational approach to regulating
guns in our country might be.

Enough.

It’s time we took steps to stop the mass killings.

It’s time we had an adult conversation about guns in this country. The
NRA can go to hell.

In deepest sympathy,

- Darcy Burner

http://crooksandliars.com/darcy-burner/adult-conversation-about-guns
RE: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Robert Acuff 7/21/12 8:33 AM
I want to see an adult conversation about the brains connected to the fingers that pulled the triggers. I guess it is easier to blame
a tool that can not load itself or pull its trigger.
 
> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 00:34:06 -0700
> Subject: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ...
> From: yehudi...@yahoo.com
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Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Dewey Cheatemnhow 7/21/12 9:45 AM
Remember this lady ?
Meet Jeanne Assam, a woman who saved a church full of people in 2007.
She was on the security team and shot a man who walked in heavily
armed, planning to kill as many people that day as he could.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/07/20/flashback_armed_woman_in_colorado_saves_lives_prevents_mass_shooting

On Jul 21, 10:33 am, Robert Acuff <bac...@msn.com> wrote:
> I want to see an adult conversation about the brains connected to the fingers that pulled the triggers. I guess it is easier to blamea tool that can not load itself or pull its trigger.
>  > Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 00:34:06 -0700
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Subject: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ...
> > From: yehudiven...@yahoo.com
Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Josh Crews 7/21/12 9:56 AM
Assualt rifles are needed in the hands of the law abiding population so that we don't get devoured by government or criminals.

I recommend the resources from Jews for the Preservation of Firearms http://jpfo.org/.  Specifically, you might want to watch No Guns for Jews: http://jpfo.org/filegen-n-z2/ngj-download-view.php or No Guns for Negros: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nckgyfGbdnU

On Friday, July 20, 2012 6:37:39 PM UTC-5, Harold Trumpett wrote:
??
Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Joanna Spock Dean 7/21/12 10:35 AM
The Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.  It has nothing to do with why anyone has the right to own an ASSAULT weapon.  And, to say the problem is the people who fire the weapons and not the weapons doesn't solve any problems until all the crazy people on the list who killed still can access these weapons,
Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Dewey Cheatemnhow 7/21/12 10:40 AM
From what I remember, the Virginia Tech shooter killed 32 people ?

And he was using a pistol.

On Jul 21, 12:35 pm, Joanna Spock Dean <alicelidel...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Re: [East Nashville] someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Rembrandt Von 7/21/12 10:43 AM
On what list ?
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Re: [East Nashville] someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Joanna Spock Dean 7/21/12 11:27 AM
There was a list of dates with number of people killed, in a recent listserve posting.
Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... drdan 7/21/12 2:12 PM
This is so ridiculous. The effective age of persons who would argue
that legal automatic weapons sales are a right or even a good idea is
about 13. It is immature and embarrassing for those arguing it. It is
sad that the rest of us are put in danger because others are
intimidated by you like they were on the playground in junior high.
Enough of the crap already... I mean really???? are we having this
argument on this listserv?  Has everyone given up?

On Jul 20, 6:37 pm, Harold Trumpett <yehudiven...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ??
unk...@googlegroups.com 7/21/12 3:29 PM <This message has been deleted.>
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Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... dustinsn3485 7/21/12 5:20 PM
An AR15 is semi-automatic. In TN it is, for all intent, illegal to purchase or possess a fully automatic firearm. 

Because this is a liberal minded, pro gun control website. I have nothing else to add.

Well except:

- There are an estimated 275 million guns in the US. For year 2010 for there were ~8k deaths from guns. That means one death for every 33k guns.

- There are an estimated 250 million cars in the US. Last year I found stats for there were 35k people killed by cars. That means one death for every 7k cars.

That's right, after accounting for population, availability of the device etc, cars kill ~5x more people than guns.


If the anti-gun folks REALLY want to save lives they should try to ban cars.
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Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... elli 7/21/12 6:52 PM
i feel like that guy would've just blown people up if he didn't have the guns.  i don't think he'd just be sitting at home stewing about not having a way to kill people.
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Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... East Nashville Martial Arts 7/21/12 8:29 PM
Just an FYI...
The term "Assault Rifle" gets thrown around very loosely by people that would like to ban all guns.

"AR" is not an abbreviation for "Assault Rifle" or "Automatic Rifle".
It comes from the company name that first developed the system; Armalite.

Another FYI
The AR-15 in its standard configuration is actually a low powered round.
I only mention that because I kept hearing it referred to as a "High Powered Assault Rifle".
Although it is used by the Military, it isn't powerful enough to legally hunt Deer in many states.

P.S.
Any one who is disturbed enough to paint his hair red, call himself "The Joker" and go on a shooting spree is crazy enough to figure out another way to kill a bunch of people another way.

Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... psgcat 7/22/12 5:30 AM
Here's a real adult comment regarding guns. There are 65 million legal gun owners in this country with permits that didn't kill a single person last week or last year! It's not guns, it's the people! You don't need a tank or a REAL assault rifle but the media always has to throw in assault rifle for the dramatic effect but it's not. My adivice is for you to go take a safety course on the safe use of hand guns and get yourself a permit and the next time this happens there will be one more of us out there to stop the crazys from getting off more shots. The man was obviously nuts and no doubt there were probably all kinds of warning signs but don't blame it on the guns again. That's just so idiotic! Guns don't kill, people kill people and they will never change so get yourself armed and watch out for the next one and stop him!
Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Harold Trumpett 7/21/12 3:41 PM
how many assault rifles do you own?

On Jul 21, 4:12 pm, drdan <dan.sulli...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Harold Trumpett 7/21/12 11:27 PM
like with a car?

On Jul 21, 10:29 pm, East Nashville Martial Arts
Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Harold Trumpett 7/21/12 5:59 PM
i'm asking about assault rifles, friend. how many do you own?


On Jul 21, 7:20 pm, dustinsn3485 <dustinsne3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> An AR15 is semi-automatic. In TN it is, for all intent, illegal to purchase
> or possess a fully automatic firearm.
>
> Because this is a liberal minded, pro gun control website. I have nothing
> else to add.
>
> Well except:
>
> - There are an estimated 275 million guns in the US. For year 2010 for
> there were ~8k deaths from guns. That means one death for every 33k guns.
>
> - There are an estimated 250 million cars in the US. Last year I found
> stats for there were 35k people killed by cars. That means one death for
> every 7k cars.
>
> That's right, after accounting for population, availability of the device
> etc, *cars kill ~5x more people than guns.*
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Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... East Nashville Martial Arts 7/23/12 10:56 AM
Harold,

I believe his point was why are you fixated on "Assault Rifles"?
They have only been used a handful of times that's I am aware of, and it has been drug dealers/bank robberies for the most part.
One big case was in the Symbianese Liberation Army/Patty Hearst case for instance.

You CAN legally buy Automatic Rifles.
They are extremely expensive.  You have to pay a hefty Tax to the BATF and you aren't allowed to sell it.
The same goes for "Silencers".

"Reductio ad Absurdum" arguments are always optically popular.
Start with the argument that no one needs Automatic Rifles.
Then no one needs High Capacity Magazines.
Then no one needs small Firearms etc...

The reverse process is used in Abortion arguments for instance.
At the end of both arguments is a group of people that think the government should mind their own business.

When they come to take away our Raw dairy, it will be too late :)

someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Bryan Neely 7/23/12 12:52 PM
will the president vist these families?

http://www.wtnh.com/dpps/news/national/south/11-dead-12-hurt-in-rwxas-truck-wreck_4246546#.UA2ok2t5mSM

it's only gotten about one minute of coverage yet more people killed than at the movie. is there a difference that i'm missing?

Re: [East Nashville] someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... sarah givens 7/23/12 1:26 PM
Why do you ask?

On Jul 23, 2012, at 2:53 PM, "Bryan Neely" <bne...@comcast.net> wrote:

will the president vist these families?

http://www.wtnh.com/dpps/news/national/south/11-dead-12-hurt-in-rwxas-truck-wreck_4246546#.UA2ok2t5mSM

it's only gotten about one minute of coverage yet more people killed than at the movie. is there a difference that i'm missing?

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Re: [East Nashville] someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... tattooedgroomer 7/23/12 1:42 PM
One was a clear act of terrorism, while the other was a horrific vehicle accident caused by carelessness (i.e. cramming that many people in a truck, and who knows what else).  Not saying that the latter is any less horrific than the first, but entirely 2 different circumstances.
Re: [East Nashville] someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Bryan Neely 7/23/12 2:18 PM
you're exactly right. yet we all think one is worse than the other. our society sees things in odd ways.
Re: [East Nashville] someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Rembrandt Von 7/23/12 2:43 PM
They where both caused by fools


On Monday, July 23, 2012, Bryan Neely wrote:
you're exactly right. yet we all think one is worse than the other. our society sees things in odd ways.

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Re: [East Nashville] someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Slartibartfast 7/23/12 2:56 PM

Matthew 5:22

King James Version (KJV)

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Re: [East Nashville] someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Rob 7/25/12 7:22 PM
BlamIng a gun for shooting someone is like blaming a pencil for mid-spelling a word
Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Rob 7/25/12 7:23 PM
And if I had been there with my gun I could have stopped them all!!  
Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Rob 7/25/12 7:25 PM
Amen!!!!
Re: [East Nashville] someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... sarah givens 7/25/12 8:23 PM
if guns dont kill people, people kill people, then toasters dont toast toast, toast toast toast!

On Jul 25, 2012, at 9:22 PM, "Rob" <lanie...@gmail.com> wrote:

BlamIng a gun for shooting someone is like blaming a pencil for mid-spelling a word

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Re: [East Nashville] someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Rembrandt Von 7/25/12 8:53 PM
and a hammer doesn't drive in nails, 
Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Sara Bellum 7/25/12 9:10 PM
Right.  While dude was wearing a tactical vest in and a helmet.  

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/itg01_3790.jpg 


On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:23:05 PM UTC-5, Rob wrote:
And if I had been there with my gun I could have stopped them all!!  
Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Rembrandt Von 7/25/12 9:26 PM
big maybe on being able to take dude out, but not impossible, things would have to be perfect....and it wasn't, it might have stunned him enough to over power him. I still believe if there where more carrier then a lot less death would have taken place. just my 2 cents...

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Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Sara Bellum 7/25/12 9:28 PM
Or a lot more people would have been killed/injured because Captain "Don't Worry, I shoot at the range all the time" would have shot them while firing in a panic state.  
Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Kay Brooks 7/26/12 3:46 AM
And you know that the legal gun owner who likely took safety classes and, you say, had trained at the range would have reacted in panic? What an assumption to make.

Do you have the same fear of the police and military reacting in the same poor fashion? Or does pinning a badge on them give them magical anti-panic powers?
Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Sara Bellum 7/26/12 4:35 AM
It's a realistic assumption because the class necessary to acquire a conceal carry permit in Tennessee consists of teaching and a session at the range, and no training whatsoever in What to Do If A Mad Man Walks In.  Which is fine, because the odds of someone getting into such a situation are very slim.  

The police and military have better odds at having experienced similar situations, Kay, so, yeah, I kind of expect them to be able to handle themselves.  

I say this as someone who is a gun owner, but I'm also a realistic gun owner and I don't think MY gun gives ME magical powers.  Your mileage must vary, I suppose.  
Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Rob 7/26/12 5:30 AM
First I will say that I agree that folks should have to demonstrate some level of competancy before being allowed to carry a weapon.   However, some of us are very skilled.  It is speculation to say that I could have stopped this clown, but my understanding is that he stopped because his weapon malfunctioned. 
 
Assume that there were no guns in America.  Do you really think this guy would have said, "Well, I was going to kill a bunch of people but I can't get a gun so that plan a bust." 
 
He could have killed more people by crashing his car into the lobby of the theater!  Taking away guns accomplishes nothing.  I admire you passion because I think it is born of a desire to stop this type of stuff but your passion is clouding your thinking a little bit.
Re: [East Nashville] someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Rob 7/26/12 5:38 AM
The day you can set the bread on the counter next to the toaster, walk away and come back to find toast, then the toaster toasts.
 
I can toast bread without a toaster, the toaster can't toast bread with out a person to put the bread in and push down on the lever.  The analogy applies to guns as well. 
 
This guy could still have killed people without a gun.  A gun is an inanimate object, until someone loads it, chambers a round, and pulls the trigger it is a big paper wieght.
 
If he had crashed his car into the lobby killing 12 and injuring 58 would you want to ban cars?
 
I really admire the passion you have but I think it clouds your thinking a little bit.
 
 

On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 10:23:43 PM UTC-5, sarah givens wrote:
if guns dont kill people, people kill people, then toasters dont toast toast, toast toast toast!



BlamIng a gun for shooting someone is like blaming a pencil for mis-spelling a word

--



Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Rob 7/26/12 5:56 AM
Now that is a rational argument!!!! 
 
Seriously, I am a supporter of the right to carry a gun but I agree with almost everything you say here.  I have years of firearms experience in the Army and was stunned at how the level of skill was for some of the people that went to the carry class I attended. 
 
I think everyone has the right to own a gun, the 2nd amendment says so. However, people should have to demonstrate the ability to use the damn thing if they want to legally carry it in public.  In a perfect world I would make mandatory a two week class on gun safety and handling before allowing someone to carry.  The problem is that it would be a waste of time because people would buy the gun, skip the class and carry anyway.
 
I agree completely with your thoughts on the family.  This stufff didn't happen 100 years ago. They had guns then, even semi-automatic pistols but there were no incidents like this.  The reason is that the family unit is a thing of the past!  All to often, parents are checked out of the lives of thier children. People complain that education is lacking but do they make sure that junior does his homework?  People complain about what they see on T.V, but do they cancel the cable subscription?
 
The guy in Colorado is someones son, brother, maybe uncle.  The availability of guns didn't make him do it.  Look in the mirror folks and ask yourself if you are doing enough to keep your kids from doing something like this!
 

On Monday, July 23, 2012 10:10:43 AM UTC-5, Barrett wrote:
psgcat I think it's more complicated than you make it out to be.  By
this I mean that YES it's people who are responsible when a crime is
committed - it's a person pulling the trigger of a gun. It's a person
swinging the tire iron or wielding the knife.  And it's usually a
person behind the wheel doing something wrong that causes an accident
- not the car itself.
But laws can be changed to make car use and gun use safer.  I have to
pass a test before I can legally drive a car.  Granted it's not a very
hard test and certainly it doesn't actually test my true abilities
behind the wheel of a car - but it's a test nonetheless and those who
fail it, are not issued a license.

I know that most gun owners/advocates are against the idea of any kind
of a psychological evaluation before a gun can be purchased - and I
understand why.  But to have SOME test (like the test you take at the
DMV to get your license), might weed out some of the nut cases like
this Colorado kid.
I don't think this "test" idea has been adequately studied or pursued
and since it hasn't, to call it a "bad idea" is naive at best and
irresponsible as hell.

psgcat you advocate carrying a firearm to hopefully thwart such
attacks in the future. Well that is certainly one idea that seems to
be gaining popularity. But I am more an advocate for what I wrote
above - teach your children well and spend the necessary time with
them.  And by "necessary time" I mean ENOUGH TIME so that they feel
grounded and cared about and loved and worth something . . . AND so
that they have a basic, honest REVERENCE for Life and a basic
understanding of the concept that we are all different and that we all
should be allowed the right to be left alone to live our own lives.
This Colorado kid was not schizophrenic as some media outlets would
like us to believe.  To label him as such is to IGNORE the wider,
social implications - that WE are responsible because WE let our
children get lost in fantasy worlds of war and gaming and
ridiculousness.  WE spoil our kids.  WE get so busy chasing the
almighty dollar that WE forget about what's important.  WE may give
our children very little attention during the year but take them on a
wonderful Disney or Cabo vacation each Summer - just to prove to them
how much we love them and how special we think they are (and to
relieve some of our own guilt).  This isn't good enough America.

WE are responsible because we busy ourselves arguing about gun control
while we have piss poor public education in every state of the union.
WE are responsible because we sit and text our friends while ignoring
our children. When I'm out and about around town, I see some of the
WORST parenting that I've ever seen.  Some of these young 20, 30 and
40 something parents truly don't deserve to be parents from what I'm
seeing.  And yes I also see A LOT of really good parenting too.

Is it any wonder that we have so much childhood depression, obesity,
suicides, drug use, etc?  We're simply not spending enough time with
our own children or with children generally.  I see THIS as the
fundamental problem that will cause us to have to go through MANY MANY
more instances like this Colorado shooting.

Easy for us to blame a thing (a gun) or to blame a condition
(schizophrenia) or to blame a cause (bad politicians making bad laws),
but in so doing, we are ignoring the larger problem.


Barrett


On Jul 21, 7:59 pm, Harold Trumpett <yehudiven...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> i'm asking about assault rifles, friend. how many do you own?
>
> On Jul 21, 7:20 pm, dustinsn3485 <dustinsne3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > An AR15 is semi-automatic. In TN it is, for all intent, illegal to purchase
> > or possess a fully automatic firearm.
>
> > Because this is a liberal minded, pro gun control website. I have nothing
> > else to add.
>
> > Well except:
>
> > - There are an estimated 275 million guns in the US. For year 2010 for
> > there were ~8k deaths from guns. That means one death for every 33k guns.
>
> > - There are an estimated 250 million cars in the US. Last year I found
> > stats for there were 35k people killed by cars. That means one death for
> > every 7k cars.
>
> > That's right, after accounting for population, availability of the device
> > etc, *cars kill ~5x more people than guns.*
>
> > If the anti-gun folks REALLY want to save lives they should try to ban cars.
>
> > On Saturday, July 21, 2012 4:12:30 PM UTC-5, drdan wrote:
>
> > > This is so ridiculous. The effective age of persons who would argue
> > > that legal automatic weapons sales are a right or even a good idea is
> > > about 13. It is immature and embarrassing for those arguing it. It is
> > > sad that the rest of us are put in danger because others are
> > > intimidated by you like they were on the playground in junior high.
> > > Enough of the crap already... I mean really???? are we having this
> > > argument on this listserv?  Has everyone given up?
>
> > > On Jul 20, 6:37 pm, Harold Trumpett <yehudiven...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > ??
Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Sara Bellum 7/26/12 6:28 AM
I never said I wanted to take away guns.  As I said in a previous post, I own guns.  It's just ridiculous to imagine the average gun owner as being capable of firing a gun safely while in a packed theater full of people screaming, in the dark, with a loud movie playing and tear gas in the air. 

Everyone (well, let's be honest, mostly everyone) would agree that having a drivers license does not ready one for racing the Indy 500, but there's a widely held belief that simply buying a gun and taking a class imbues the owner with the skills needed to handle any sort of situation.  The phrase "If only one person had a gun..." ranks right up there with "Make Love, Not War" for trite bumper sticker wisdom that doesn't help anything. 
RE: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Robert Acuff 7/26/12 6:35 AM
The point is that if the door sticker on the theater did not say, NO GUNS ALLOWED, would the shooter go there to kill people.
Has there ever been a mass killing at a gun show?
 

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 06:28:45 -0700
From: girl.burp....@gmail.com
To: east-na...@googlegroups.com
CC: girl.burp....@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/east-nashville/-/yt-gyRT_5MwJ.

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Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Sara Bellum 7/26/12 6:43 AM
Re: [East Nashville] someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... bobby rooks 7/26/12 6:53 AM
From what I understand with this man and most mass killers they have an agenda or theme.  He was trying to imitate a mass murdering terrorist super villain. Crashing your car into the theater wouldn't satisfy his need for drama and effect so I doubt he would've ever used a car. 
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Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Kay Brooks 7/26/12 6:56 AM
Are you overlooking the fact that those Fort Hood soldiers were unarmed? Hasan took advantage of that NO GUNS ALLOWED zone.
Re: [East Nashville] someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... bobby rooks 7/26/12 7:01 AM
I sent that last post too quickly, I wanted to add-crashing your car into the theater is more like an senior citizen with vision problems style if mass murder and not usually a super villains criteria for mass murder unless it is planned to be used in conjunction with other forms of destruction,mayhem and death. 
RE: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Bill 7/26/12 6:43 AM
We dont know why the shooter did what he did.  And probably never will.  No, there has never been a shooting at a gun show, to my knowledge.
What people do not get is, there is a Constitutional right to own and carry firearms.  Not only the Second Amendment to the US Constitution but also the Tennessee State Constitution I.26.  No one has to take a test to vote (although maybe they should).  No one has to take a test to publish a newspaper or a blog. No one has to take a test to practice a particular religion.  So no one should have to take a test to acquire or use a gun.  It is of course good sense to become proficient with the arm. But good sense should not be legislated.
Bill Bernstein
Eastside Gun Shop
"AK-47s do not belong on the streets" -B.Obama. True, they belong in the hands of law abiding citizens and residents.

--- On Thu, 7/26/12, Robert Acuff <bac...@msn.com> wrote:

From: Robert Acuff <bac...@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ...
To: girl.burp....@gmail.com, "East Nashville" <east-na...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, July 26, 2012, 8:35 AM

The point is that if the door sticker on the theater did not say, NO GUNS ALLOWED, would the shooter go there to kill people.
Has there ever been a mass killing at a gun show?
 

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 06:28:45 -0700
From: girl.burp....@gmail.com
To: east-na...@googlegroups.com
CC: girl.burp....@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ...

I never said I wanted to take away guns.  As I said in a previous post, I own guns.  It's just ridiculous to imagine the average gun owner as being capable of firing a gun safely while in a packed theater full of people screaming, in the dark, with a loud movie playing and tear gas in the air. 

Everyone (well, let's be honest, mostly everyone) would agree that having a drivers license does not ready one for racing the Indy 500, but there's a widely held belief that simply buying a gun and taking a class imbues the owner with the skills needed to handle any sort of situation.  The phrase "If only one person had a gun..." ranks right up there with "Make Love, Not War" for trite bumper sticker wisdom that doesn't help anything. 

On Thursday, July 26, 2012 7:30:58 AM UTC-5, Rob wrote:
First I will say that I agree that folks should have to demonstrate some level of competancy before being allowed to carry a weapon.   However, some of us are very skilled.  It is speculation to say that I could have stopped this clown, but my understanding is that he stopped because his weapon malfunctioned. 
 
Assume that there were no guns in America.  Do you really think this guy would have said, "Well, I was going to kill a bunch of people but I can't get a gun so that plan a bust." 
 
He could have killed more people by crashing his car into the lobby of the theater!  Taking away guns accomplishes nothing.  I admire you passion because I think it is born of a desire to stop this type of stuff but your passion is clouding your thinking a little bit.
 

On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:28:24 PM UTC-5, Sara Bellum wrote:
Or a lot more people would have been killed/injured because Captain "Don't Worry, I shoot at the range all the time" would have shot them while firing in a panic state.  
On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:26:07 PM UTC-5, Rembrandt wrote:
big maybe on being able to take dude out, but not impossible, things would have to be perfect....and it wasn't, it might have stunned him enough to over power him. I still believe if there where more carrier then a lot less death would have taken place. just my 2 cents...

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Sara Bellum <girl.burp.revolution@gmail. com> wrote:
Right.  While dude was wearing a tactical vest in and a helmet.  

http://static.tvtropes.org/ pmwiki/pub/images/itg01_3790. jpg 


On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:23:05 PM UTC-5, Rob wrote:
And if I had been there with my gun I could have stopped them all!!  

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On Thursday, July 26, 2012 7:30:58 AM UTC-5, Rob wrote:
First I will say that I agree that folks should have to demonstrate some level of competancy before being allowed to carry a weapon.   However, some of us are very skilled.  It is speculation to say that I could have stopped this clown, but my understanding is that he stopped because his weapon malfunctioned. 
 
Assume that there were no guns in America.  Do you really think this guy would have said, "Well, I was going to kill a bunch of people but I can't get a gun so that plan a bust." 
 
He could have killed more people by crashing his car into the lobby of the theater!  Taking away guns accomplishes nothing.  I admire you passion because I think it is born of a desire to stop this type of stuff but your passion is clouding your thinking a little bit.
 

On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:28:24 PM UTC-5, Sara Bellum wrote:
Or a lot more people would have been killed/injured because Captain "Don't Worry, I shoot at the range all the time" would have shot them while firing in a panic state.  
On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:26:07 PM UTC-5, Rembrandt wrote:
big maybe on being able to take dude out, but not impossible, things would have to be perfect....and it wasn't, it might have stunned him enough to over power him. I still believe if there where more carrier then a lot less death would have taken place. just my 2 cents...

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Sara Bellum <girl.burp.revolution@gmail. com> wrote:
Right.  While dude was wearing a tactical vest in and a helmet.  

http://static.tvtropes.org/ pmwiki/pub/images/itg01_3790. jpg 


On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:23:05 PM UTC-5, Rob wrote:
And if I had been there with my gun I could have stopped them all!!  

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Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Dewey Cheatemnhow 7/26/12 8:50 AM
Gun Ownership Up, Crime Down

Gun-control advocates are noticeably silent when crime rates decline.
Their multimillion-dollar lobbying efforts are designed to manufacture
mass anxiety that every gun owner is a potential killer. The
statistics show otherwise.

Last week, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) announced that
violent crime decreased 4 percent in 2011. The number of murders,
rapes, robberies and aggravated assaults all went down, continuing a
pattern.

“This is not a one-year anomaly, but a steady decline in the FBI’s
violent-crime rates,” said Andrew Arulanandam, spokesman for the
National Rifle Association. “It would be disingenuous for anyone to
not credit increased self-defense laws to account for this decline.”

Mr. Arulanandam pointed out that only a handful of states had
concealed-carry programs 25 years ago, when the violent-crime rate
peaked. Today, 41 states either allow carrying without a permit or
have “shall issue” laws that make it easy for just about any
noncriminal to get a permit. Illinois and Washington, D.C., are the
only places that refuse to recognize the right to bear arms. The Brady
Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence did not respond to requests for
comment.

If the gun grabbers were right, we’d be in the middle of a crime wave,
considering how many guns are on the streets. “Firearms sales have
increased substantially since right after the 2008 election,” said
Bill Brassard, spokesman for the National Shooting Sports Foundation
(NSSF), which represents the $4 billion firearms and ammunition
industry. “There was a leveling off in 2010, but now we’re seeing a
surge again.”

The FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)
serves as one of the best indicators of gun sales because it counts
each time someone buys a gun. Checks hit an all-time high of 16.5
million last year. In the first five months of this year, the numbers
have gone up 10 percent over the same period last year as Americans
rush to the gun store in case President Obama decides to exercise
“more flexibility” in restricting guns in a second term.

Gun manufacturing is the one private-sector industry “doing fine” on
Mr. Obama’s watch. Sturm, Ruger & Co. sold 1 million firearms in the
first quarter of 2012 - an amazing 50 percent increase from the first
quarter of 2011. The jump was so steep that the company stopped
accepting orders from March to May to catch up with demand for its
products.

Last month, Smith & Wesson announced a firearm-order backlog of
approximately $439 million by the end of April, up 135 percent from
the same quarter in 2011. Sales in that period were up 28 percent from
2011 and 14 percent over its own predictions to investors. NSSF
estimates the industry is responsible for approximately 180,000 jobs
and has an annual impact on the U.S. economy of $28 billion.

Mr. Obama could honestly take credit for this jobs program, economic
boost and the reduction in violent crime that has followed the spike
in gun ownership on his watch. Instead, he’s silent about his greatest
positive accomplishment.

Emily Miller is a senior editor for the Opinion pages at The
Washington Times.
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Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... beth mcl 7/26/12 9:33 AM
Really ?
Gun Control's Twisted Outcome
Restricting firearms has helped make England more crime-ridden than
the U.S.
http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome/singlepage
Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Dirty Hairy 7/26/12 1:30 PM
How about these statistics?
In 1982, Kennesaw Ga passed an ordinance that requires the heads of households to keep at least 1 firearm in the house.
After it went into effect, crimes against persons plummeted 74% in 82 and another 45% in 83
The rate has remained low ever since

Sent from my iPhone
Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Bryan Neely 7/26/12 1:32 PM
but it sometimes rhymes pretty well.
Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... elkecombs 7/26/12 2:53 PM
Why Switzerland Has the Lowest Crime Rate in the World - because
everyone owns a gun and knows how to use it.

http://youtu.be/B31SUm0nrwc
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Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Rembrandt Von 7/26/12 8:07 PM
anyone can gather stats to support their cause........

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Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... elli 7/26/12 8:35 PM

There are about 7 billion people on earth.  (wow- I remember being a kid when it was only 4-ish billion) - anyway - this theater incident is a result of one of those 7 billion people going absolutey koo-koo.  He probably could have done more damage with his explosive tech skills if killing strangers was his only goal - but he wants the limelight.  It's random.  It's not the norm - and yes, it completely sucks.... (and there's no "but" following that).  I bet he's hoping he will be the most popular halloween costume of the season this year.  The Constitution should not bow to koo koo. 

 
Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... East Nashville Martial Arts 7/26/12 9:03 PM
Errrr...no
'Neutral' Switzerland didn't let people immigrate.
Then they let people move freely from country to country with the EU agreements.
Now, many of them are deciding that maybe that wasn't such a good idea.
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Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Todd G 7/26/12 9:58 PM
Has anyone here ever been to Switzerland?  The cost of living there is horrid.  I remember buying a Fliet-o-fish combo meal at McDonalds for almost $20US.  You do not want to know how much a pitcher of beer in at Hooters.  Ok.  I am embarrassed about where I eat when in Zurich.
From what I know every male is issued an assault rifle that he is to leave at home.  Sorry women, no gun for you.
I have never seen anyone ever carry a gun on their person.
Todd


On Thursday, July 26, 2012 9:59:18 PM UTC-5, N. Gant wrote:
Interesting, I thought Switzerland Has the Lowest Crime Rate in the World - because everyone gets free medical care and a free education and there isn't and entire class of people living below the poverty line.


Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... bobby rooks 7/26/12 10:23 PM
But you are required to carry this. 
image.jpeg
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Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Sarah Martin 7/26/12 10:23 PM
Actually, qualitative research - yes, interviews (actual research with significant depth and thick description, not "polls") is actually quite revealing and answers a completely different question than does quantitative research (numbers/statistical analysis).

For instance, if a quantitative researcher/statistician studied welfare, he would count the number of recipients, the average household size, the average education level completed, the average household income,etc. - conducting research that tries to answer "What...?"  A qualitative researcher would actually break into the community and gain the trust of the welfare recipients, asking questions about their background, how they spend their food stamps, where they fall short, whether or not they would like to become self-sufficient, etc. - research that seeks to answer "How?"  Also, with stats, a researcher may choose one statistical test over another to get the result he wants - the same data can produce completely different results depending on the type of test chosen for analysis.  There is a lot of room for bias to come into play.  A qualitative researcher, on the other hand, typically discloses all biases to the reader - essentially, a reader knows precisely what the researcher's agenda is.  It's quite refreshing.

There was a time when qualitative research methods were not taken seriously, but if you read a lot of peer-reviewed case studies, you'll notice that qualitative research is gaining steam among the academic community. 

Just food for thought from a nerd...
Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Dirty Hairy 7/27/12 3:43 AM
We obviously read from 2 different sources

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Harold Trumpett 7/27/12 12:15 AM
LIKE!!!!!

On Jul 26, 8:28 am, Sara Bellum <girl.burp.revolut...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >>> girl.burp.revolut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> Right.  While dude was wearing a tactical vest in and a helmet.
>
> >>>>http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/itg01_3790.jpg
>
> >>>> On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:23:05 PM UTC-5, Rob wrote:
>
> >>>>> And if I had been there with my gun I could have stopped them all!!
>
> >>>>  --
> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>>> Groups "East Nashville" group.
> >>>> To post to this group, send email to east-na...@googlegroups.com.
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>>> east-nashvill...@googlegroups.com.
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> >>>>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/east-nashville/-/_UNKbI0LuMIJ.
>
> >>>> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >>> girl.burp.revolut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> Right.  While dude was wearing a tactical vest in and a helmet.
>
> >>>>http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/itg01_3790.jpg
>
> >>>> On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:23:05 PM UTC-5, Rob wrote:
>
> >>>>> And if I had been there with my gun I could have stopped them all!!
>
> >>>>  --
> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>>> Groups "East Nashville" group.
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> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>
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Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Harold Trumpett 7/27/12 12:17 AM
well... has there ever been a mass killing at an air show?


no, ... wait....

On Jul 26, 8:35 am, Robert Acuff <bac...@msn.com> wrote:
> The point is that if the door sticker on the theater did not say, NO GUNS ALLOWED, would the shooter go there to kill people.Has there ever been a mass killing at a gun show?
>  Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 06:28:45 -0700
> From: girl.burp.revolut...@gmail.com
> To: east-na...@googlegroups.com
> CC: girl.burp.revolut...@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [East Nashville] Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ...
>
> I never said I wanted to take away guns.  As I said in a previous post, I own guns.  It's just ridiculous to imagine the average gun owner as being capable of firing a gun safely while in a packed theater full of people screaming, in the dark, with a loud movie playing and tear gas in the air.
>
> Everyone (well, let's be honest, mostly everyone) would agree that having a drivers license does not ready one for racing the Indy 500, but there's a widely held belief that simply buying a gun and taking a class imbues the owner with the skills needed to handle any sort of situation.  The phrase "If only one person had a gun..." ranks right up there with "Make Love, Not War" for trite bumper sticker wisdom that doesn't help anything.
>
> On Thursday, July 26, 2012 7:30:58 AM UTC-5, Rob wrote:First I will say that I agree that folks should have to demonstrate some level of competancy before being allowed to carry a weapon.   However, some of us are very skilled.  It is speculation to say that I could have stopped this clown, but my understanding is that he stopped because his weapon malfunctioned.   Assume that there were no guns in America.  Do you really think this guy would have said, "Well, I was going to kill a bunch of people but I can't get a gun so that plan a bust."   He could have killed more people by crashing his car into the lobby of the theater!  Taking away guns accomplishes nothing.  I admire you passion because I think it is born of a desire to stop this type of stuff but your passion is clouding your thinking a little bit.
> On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:28:24 PM UTC-5, Sara Bellum wrote:Or a lot more people would have been killed/injured because Captain "Don't Worry, I shoot at the range all the time" would have shot them while firing in a panic state.
> On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:26:07 PM UTC-5, Rembrandt wrote:big maybe on being able to take dude out, but not impossible, things would have to be perfect....and it wasn't, it might have stunned him enough to over power him. I still believe if there where more carrier then a lot less death would have taken place. just my 2 cents...
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Sara Bellum <girl.burp.revolut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Right.  While dude was wearing a tactical vest in and a helmet.  http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/itg01_3790.jpg
>
> On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:23:05 PM UTC-5, Rob wrote:And if I had been there with my gun I could have stopped them all!!
>
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> On Thursday, July 26, 2012 7:30:58 AM UTC-5, Rob wrote:First I will say that I agree that folks should have to demonstrate some level of competancy before being allowed to carry a weapon.   However, some of us are very skilled.  It is speculation to say that I could have stopped this clown, but my understanding is that he stopped because his weapon malfunctioned.   Assume that there were no guns in America.  Do you really think this guy would have said, "Well, I was going to kill a bunch of people but I can't get a gun so that plan a bust."   He could have killed more people by crashing his car into the lobby of the theater!  Taking away guns accomplishes nothing.  I admire you passion because I think it is born of a desire to stop this type of stuff but your passion is clouding your thinking a little bit.
> On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:28:24 PM UTC-5, Sara Bellum wrote:Or a lot more people would have been killed/injured because Captain "Don't Worry, I shoot at the range all the time" would have shot them while firing in a panic state.
> On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:26:07 PM UTC-5, Rembrandt wrote:big maybe on being able to take dude out, but not impossible, things would have to be perfect....and it wasn't, it might have stunned him enough to over power him. I still believe if there where more carrier then a lot less death would have taken place. just my 2 cents...
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Sara Bellum <girl.burp.revolut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Right.  While dude was wearing a tactical vest in and a helmet.  http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/itg01_3790.jpg
>
> On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:23:05 PM UTC-5, Rob wrote:And if I had been there with my gun I could have stopped them all!!
>
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Re: someone please remind me why we need assault rifles again ... Scott Moffett 7/27/12 5:48 AM
You are obviously do not understand the meaning of the word free.


On Thursday, July 26, 2012 9:59:18 PM UTC-5, N. Gant wrote:
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