|Religious right and their opinion of other churches||philosophy||5/15/12 7:03 PM|
This was written up some time ago, but it does reflect the
interdenominational crap that goes on when one church leader can call
another church non-christian. At the same time he complains that
people no longer respect "religious values". Well, all I can say is
if all he has to offer is what is reported here, is it any wonder that
religious values are not being respected as they used to.
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Bob T.||5/15/12 8:54 PM|
> religious values are not being respected as they used to.http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/religious-right-leader-episcopa...
Hating people who worship differently from yourself has always been a
"religious value"... unlike spelling.
"But how can one be surprised at this defiance of church cannons"
How dare they defy your "cannons"! Fire at the heathens when ready.
- Bob T
- Bob T
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||philosophy||5/16/12 12:47 AM|
Let's line them up like a bunch of skittles and bowl
them over, but with a canon ball !!!!
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||TLC||5/16/12 3:05 AM|
Storm in a religious teacup. Upon till relatively recently we didn't
learn about all this pretend love christians talk about. Catholics
and Protestants thought and openly called each other heretics, and
many still think the same, and many of the thousands of Protestant
sects openly hated each other and many still do!
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||philosophy||5/16/12 3:53 AM|
Yes. I guess I just get cheesed off by what they say should
be done and what they do themselves.
I mean this guy is a prime example.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||thea||5/16/12 8:59 AM|
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:53 AM, philosophy <catswhi...@gmail.com> wrote:Yes. I guess I just get cheesed off by what they say should
The idea that I am right and you are wrong - is the way the
denominational churches and Catholic church have maintained
They all make you think that you are exclusively Christian
and everyone else is believing a fable.
No one is taught how to read the Bible for themselves, as
we are all taught to just parrot what we have been told.
And, because no one asks *God show me the Truth*,
no one really finds out the secrets in the Bible, because
you didn't ask.
It is amazing how many people I meet who, because I don't
attend their church, or any church for that matter (because I
believe *come out and be ye separate* - is for now),
that I cannot be a Christian.
I wear a cross around my neck, and you should see
the angry stares I get. Oh, you are wearing *jeans*
and a hat that says *Budweiser* on it - and you are
a Christian -- oh ho!
The *Budweiser* hat - no one has ever asked why?
I will tell you that there was a hydroplane Boat racer,
who piloted the Budweiser boat to victory several
times, and the crane operators couldn't say enough
good things about him. He didn't cuss when something
when wrong, he was just plain a nice nice guy.
I have never heard any man lauded like they lauded
this race boat driver.
But, you see, when you have been brainwashed to
believe that drinking *Budweiser* is bad (I don't
happen to like beer of any kind) you make summations
about people that are wrong.
I believe that when I judge you, for whatever I judge
you for, I will be judged.
Therefore, I believe when I am following Jesus, I
love all of mankind, because Jesus loved us all
so much that HE Died in MY place on Calvary.
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Bob T.||5/16/12 9:08 AM|
It should be noted that real beer drinkers do not consider Bud to be
"beer of any kind" at all!
- Bob T
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||thea||5/16/12 9:16 AM|
Ah, we must have a real connoisseur. Thank you.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Timbo||5/16/12 10:44 AM|
How can you prove that thea did not simply brainwash thea out of need? When you ask "God show me the Truth", where is your evidence that your not answered by first having a thea need for such answer to become as it does? Have you examined your own needs for possible determined cause? Do you lie to yourself just a little about examining said first cause?
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||LL||5/16/12 11:01 AM|
LL. To say nothing of what they think and thought about Jews!
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||thea||5/16/12 3:52 PM|
I discovered through reading a number of commentaries, that commentators had
something happen to them every once in a while, that they would seeming
mention at certain passages.
This is where you get the *lightning flash that when it hits you on the head
your brain lights up with a 'so this is what it says'* moment.
In other words, Jesus is Alive and Well, and allows you to know that HE
is enlightening your mind, to what the meaning of the Text Really Is.
Howbeit, I asked God to show me why Israel had been set aside so
Jesus could come to all.
When I felt like I should start reading in Romans, immediately the thought
came - that I could read through to Revelation and never find it.
However, I did start reading in Romans, and imagine my surprise
when I read just 26 verses of the 1st chapter to find the answer to my question.
*Even though they knew God (who knew God in the OT was Israel), they
were not Thankful (even though they had a sacrifice of Praise), and
so God set them aside.
The rest of the chapter directly affects Israel's status as being non-believers
in their Messiah.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/-/S5U7aBE0k0EJ.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||thea||5/16/12 3:53 PM|
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:03 PM, dali_70 <w_e_co...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Thea, even if you did drink Budweiser, you wouldn't be drinking beer.
You just gave me a wonderful education. Keep talking. I like learning
about what is good to eat and drink.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Ian Betts||5/17/12 12:08 AM|
I think that is normal what it termed self fulfillment, You read something that no only do you understand by that meets you own value system and need so you say that IT
IMO your lightning flash is just that.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Timbo||5/17/12 10:05 AM|
Here is where I ask about your determined needs:
You said: "This is where you get the *lightning flash that when it hits you on the head
your brain lights up with a 'so this is what it says'* moment.
I'm questioning, if at that moment, you question another possibility for the cause of the lightening flash. I'm questioning if you gave proper weight to the fact that you had pre-determined needs as cause for your solution to what caused said lightening flash? I'm questioning your method of weighing probabilities to match other methods of weighing that as atheist and theist, we find successful?
Do you agree that unless we can show that a rational method of weighing in which we can l agree to, must be applied in order to ether eliminate or satisfy any possible cause? A not so caring doctor will allow the most common diagnosis and throw the most common solution at the problem. Opposed to a caring doctor will establish a rational method of weighing all "determined" facts before establishing the most likely solution.
You said: "When I felt like I should start reading in Romans, immediately the thought
Here again, "when I felt like" becomes problematic. As above, first cause for feelings must be analyzed in a rational manner in order to intelligently eliminate factors of determinism. Unless you can prove to yourself that you did in fact use a rational method of weighing that was proven successful to find other solutions by both opposing and non opposing parties, you cannot escape determined needs as cause. Therefore, you have no way of knowing what is brainwashed (determined) and what is not.
I await your rational method of weighing your determined needs to fit other successful non-biased rational method of weighing.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||thea||5/18/12 6:47 AM|
When presenting the fact that it is *not who you are, what you are, where you have been, or where you are going* to someone asking
how God could love someone like them, or feeling like they will never be *good enough*.
I have presented the fact that God is handing us a platter of all good things, and all we have to do is accept Jesus for
who HE Says HE IS.
And, I have watched the lightning flashes when Truth is spoken come and hit someone on the head when they become a Christian for
the first time.
I have also watched when I was teaching a class, the lightning come, and the faces light up as someone understood the reality
of what was being said.
It is something that my pastor, who re-programmed me, saw happening to me all the time when he was teaching.
That is the reason he asked me *how come you are picking this up so fast?* and I told him that I had
asked Jesus to show me the Truth, and Jesus was doing just that.
So, there is more to this than meets the *eye*.
It is a phenomena that happens all the time when Truth is spoken.
I related how I was sitting next to a Cherokee Indian in a restaurant, when the manager came by to shut the
blinds, as the light was in our eyes, and this fellow said *Winter is coming*. The Spirit witnessed
that what he said was the Whole Truth, and Nothing but the Truth.
So, it can happen anytime someone is saying the *Truth*.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/-/3cfig4diZu4J.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Timbo||5/18/12 8:14 AM|
Sounds like a lot of denial. You must be afraid to look at yourself to find truth.
Uhmm, re-programmed? This is just sick. How could you be so weak?
You needed Jesus, therefore "Jesus"
So it seems that your answer to rational method of weighing is that you deny it's necessity. I find that you and others have brainwashed you to the point of denying yourself as a rational human. You should try and get yourself out of this mess. Your sounding more like debating with Brocky.
I suppose, to expose yourselves would be horrifying. You are innocent.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Ian Betts||5/18/12 9:25 AM|
I love the Budweiser story Thea but then you go off on the old bible mambo jumbo again.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||thea||5/19/12 11:48 AM|
Thanks, Ian, for liking the story. All well and good. I have never heard men laud another
man - puts on his pants the same way they do - and they thought he was *special*.
God is real. The only sin all of mankind has committed, is the sin of not believing that
God Exists, has done something for us, and is willing to take care of us for eternity.
Because of our unbelief, we will be spewed out of God's mouth (Revelation 3)
and such a waste of time here on earth, when we could be God's dwelling place
As a Christian, I am the Temple of the Holy Spirit. The God of Abraham no longer
exists in a building made by man's hands, but in the hearts and minds of the
Redeemed of the Lord Jesus Christ.
|unk...@googlegroups.com||5/27/12 8:59 AM||<This message has been deleted.>|
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||thea||5/28/12 9:29 AM|
On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Observer <mayo...@gmail.com> wrote:
There is a way which is *Right*.
And, when we read the Bible and find the God that says,
*If you will prove me (find me), I will pour you out blessings.*
If you prove *I Exist*, I can be found by you, but you have to
search for me with your whole heart.
If you look for me -- I already have you in the palm on my hand,
to never let you go, to work everything out for my glory and
The biggest problem I see of people who don't understand or
won't understand, that all they have to do to know that
*God Exists*, is to reach out and hand God everything
in their lives, so HE can show them HIS Glory.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Ian Betts||5/28/12 2:32 PM|
No Thea that is a faith, you can invest faith in a human person instead of a mythical image. it make no difference as long as you tread a steady path through life of helping others as well as yourself.
The trouble with your God idea is that it is selfish because you have to worship your image.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||thea||5/28/12 3:38 PM|
The Bible also says that we are not to trust *the arm of flesh will fail us* We dare not trust
in ourselves either.
There will come a day when we will know that the only thing we honestly have is a God
who loves US.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Ian Betts||5/28/12 3:43 PM|
I do not follow that bible you slavishly follow. I believe in humans not images.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||thea||5/28/12 3:50 PM|
I believed in my doctor. An old guy about 80 years old. He sent me to a specialist
with the adage that he hated to do this to me.
Little known to me, that specialist, sent me to another guy, and another guy sent
me to someone else - and I almost lost my life when this fellow physician decided
to do some tests on me.
I discovered why the doctor then said to me, *I knew they were getting them in
and spitting them out* but I didn't understand.
Now he understands, and one of those physicians is no longer practicing with the
same group they were with.
Interesting when you are depending on the *arm of flesh* which is your doctor,
to protect you, and help you heal.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Ian Betts||5/29/12 12:18 AM|
You must have the worst of luck or your medical services are crap because in 78 years I have never met or been treated by an incompetent medical practitioner. Some are better than others but that is usually bed side manner rather than competence.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||thea||5/29/12 8:25 AM|
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 2:18 AM, Ian Betts <ianbe...@gmail.com> wrote:
Are you in USofA?
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Ian Betts||5/29/12 9:56 AM|
No I am in the UK.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||thea||5/29/12 11:07 AM|
Your system is different from ours. Even though my doctor a few years
back went to the UK to see what your medicine was like. He
came back with negative view point of it.
Seems our doctors have had it too easy for a long time, and wish
to keep it thataway.
However, America's medicine has been both positive and negative.
It is always better, of course, if you don't have to be *healed*
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Ian Betts||5/29/12 3:03 PM|
You Doctor who came here found it real hard going I bet because we get free medical care on the helth service and he earns big bucks for less work I bet
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||thea||5/29/12 3:28 PM|
He stated that when you need medical care, since you are already on some doctors
roster, if the doctor wishes to go golf, you wait.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Ian Betts||5/30/12 12:45 AM|
That just does not happen here. He tells lies to make a story. Our General Practitioners work in Surgeries of at least five or more doctors, so if yours is not available you see another in the practice who can see your medical record.
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Bill Bowden||5/30/12 8:16 PM|
On May 29, 3:03 pm, Ian Betts <ianbett...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 7:07 PM, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:So, how much do the taxpayers pay for that free medical care in the
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||LL||5/30/12 8:53 PM|
LL. You can bet it's a lot less than we pay here in the US. But it's
not socialized, so it's ok that we pay triple and get less. Ah, good
old capitalism. Ain't it grand?
On May 30, 8:16 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||philosophy||5/30/12 9:42 PM|
I received this article incorporated in an email yesterday.
I'm sorry I can't give you a link, but the article is written
by a Rodney Johnson who is associated with HS Dent.
I thought you might find it interesting: Here it is:-
Medicare is broke and broken.
President Johnson introduced the program in the 1960s as part of his
“Great Society.” He didn’t originate the idea of healthcare for the
elderly, but he was the President that eventually got it passed.
The original scope of the program was to provide affordable care – not
free care – to Social Security recipients. Initially the program was a
success. It did indeed provide healthcare to those who otherwise could
not afford it. Then, of course, time and Congress took their toll.
Time took its toll by revealing that healthcare costs would soon
outstrip the inflation rate of most every other item, including
general prices, wages and interest rates.
Congress took its toll by ever-widening who qualified to receive
Medicare coverage, and then failing to stick with cost-reducing
measures needed to keep Medicare from spiraling out of control.
What we’re left with today is a program that covers tens of millions
of people, at a cost to the participants far short of the cost of the
care. The bottom line is, Medicare brings in less than it spends right
But Congress didn’t stop there…
Every year Congress passes temporary laws that stop automatic cuts in
Medicare payments. One such cut is a required reduction in the fees
paid to doctors. This mandatory cut is part of a law from over a
decade ago, created with the intention of helping keep Medicare
The idea was, if Medicare began spending more than it received in
revenue (tax payments), then doctors were supposed to have their
reimbursement fees cut by 5%.
Of course, that never happened.
Medicare has been underwater since 2008. So, for the five years since
then, including 2008, doctors should have seen a reduction in their
pay. By now, the drop would have been over 25%.
But, every year, Congress has passed what is called the “doctor’s
fix,” to put off this cut. Once again, in January 2013 there is
supposed to be a mandatory cut of doctor’s fees, and now the number is
up to 31%. Will it happen? Not a chance.
Instead, we’ll go along pretending that all is well… that the U.S.
treasury bonds in the Medicare Trust Fund are really worth something…
that the program really can save money by enacting fictitious cuts
somewhere in the future… that everyone will have healthcare in
whatever form or amount they want.
At least, some people will keep pretending this to be the case. For
the rest of us, reality keeps getting a bit uglier. It’s not enough
that Medicare has lost money every year since 2008. It’s not enough
that Congress can’t find the political will to simply stick with
existing methods of bringing down costs, much less work on new ways to
reign in the runaway spending.
Additionally, we have over 60 million Baby Boomers that will be
retiring in the next 12-15 years, all looking for their piece of the
Medicare pie. This is what should scare you.
There will be adjustments made. And adjustments never work for two
groups – taxpayers and those with assets. If you are in either one of
these categories, be warned. Medicare will be balanced on your back,
no matter how much it hurts.
Total health Care Expenditure Per Capita in the U.S.:
I read another article recently, which I shall endeavour to find for
you, which points out that if the hospitals were to release patients
into nursing rehabilitation units for their post operative
recuperation care, then the cost to your tax payers would be reduced
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Ian Betts||5/31/12 12:49 AM|
It comes out of general taxation so its not a sum paid directly for the service but working people pay through National Insurance were both employer and employee pay a small % of earnings. Retired and children and those with special needs do not contribute..
I can guarantee if far cheaper that America, that is why sop many try to get here to take advantage of the service.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Timbo||5/31/12 7:44 AM|
Until you are capable of using this same method of reasoning to read and understand your determined self, you will always be fooled by the false truths your determined self is delivering to your conscious mind. The number one truth in question is your belief in knowing what the Bible is telling you personally about the life you live.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Ian Betts||5/31/12 9:25 AM|
For many the question on how was the Bible written is a mystery. Even if someone agrees on the inspiration of the Bible, for many the mystery remains on how the Bible became the Bible? If God revealed His words to Moses, how did those words get from Moses to us today? The question easily extends itself to all 40 writers of the 66 books, which make up the Bible. What was the language was the Bible written in? What was it written on? These questions among others face the student of Bible origins. Critics who attack the Bible play on the lack of historical and archeological knowledge to level their charges.
Critics ask the question, how did the Bible become the Bible? Charging the Bible was the result of “Oral transmission”, claiming, writing did not exist in the days of Abraham and Moses. Therefore, the Bible was written down after long periods, its words are not reliable. In fact, they theorize the Bible is a collection of near-east mythology.
It a myth Thea
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/-/97zNuGGmz5gJ.
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Bill Bowden||5/31/12 6:54 PM|
On May 30, 9:42 pm, philosophy <catswhisker...@gmail.com> wrote:Yes, the article is probably right, but it didn't include the massive
abuse of the system by providers, (unnecessary tests performed to
increase profits and avoid law suits, etc.) and defensive medical
practices in general, nor the fact most doctors are in debt 250K or
more when they get out of school. That all adds up to higher costs
passed on to the public.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Trance Gemini||6/1/12 4:33 PM|
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Bill Bowden <bpe...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> wrote:
This happens when parts of the system are private. We're having a serious problem with this type of nonsense in Ontario and it only started after the government allowed private labs, etc.
Previous to that it was unheard of because the labs were government run.
Now we not only have that kind of abuse but the sheer incompetence has resulted in not being able to ever be certain that your lab results or test results are accurate.
The amounts that they are paid in Canada are fixed irrespective and that creates a systemic problem where they try to fit in seeing as many patients as possible and don't provide any of them with proper health care.
The system isn't perfect but it's better than none. And these systemic problems have resolutions but the governments are too busy pandering to special interests to implement them.
"To no form of religion is woman indebted for one impulse of freedom..." --Susan B. Anthony
"Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad." --Brian O'Driscoll
Freethinkers and atheists Google Group
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||philosophy||6/2/12 1:40 AM|
I also think the medical model is a bit suspect in that
it treats "disease" - and rightly so, but what about having
a model which keeps people well, so that the latter
doesn't have to be addressed as often?
On Jun 1, 11:54 am, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Ian Betts||6/2/12 2:11 AM|
There are thing called Well Clinics attached to surgeries in the UK they give MOT type checks and encourage all the good ways to keep fit and well.
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||philosophy||6/2/12 8:03 AM|
That's good, isn't it?
I came across this chap in the USA, and he appears
to be a "normal doctor" as well as being into health
and well being. Granted, he pushes some product
of his own, but in relative terms it is not overpriced,
and he explains the reason why he has it
available. I am thinking of getting some stuff for
a cat of mine whom neither of the vets I go to, can
help. It will have to wait till next month when I get
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||LL||6/2/12 9:16 AM|
> bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> wrote:LL. I don't know what you meant to do, but no article came through.
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||philosophy||6/2/12 4:08 PM|
Hi LL, this was me, not
TG. The first one was an email I received, so couldn't
give you the article. The second is one I am still trying
to find - again. Haven't had the time to give to it. Sorry.
|Re: [AvC] Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Trance Gemini||6/2/12 4:41 PM|
I wasn't commenting on the article anyway Philosophy.
I was responding to Bill's comments so it doesn't matter.
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||Bill Bowden||6/2/12 8:52 PM|
On Jun 2, 2:11 am, Ian Betts <ianbett...@gmail.com> wrote:Are patients required to attend the "Well clinics", or is that
optional? What is the motivation to attend a "Well clinic" ?
|Re: Religious right and their opinion of other churches||LL||6/3/12 1:15 AM|
LL. OK. I got lost in the thread.