Usage of "Booked" not in OED

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Usage of "Booked" not in OED No One 12/29/02 1:09 PM
I had chance to use the word "booked" the other day and everyone understood
my meaning instantly, yet I can find no reference to the usage in OED.

Specifically, we had a female juvenile in custody on a missing person
charge, and transported her to a local juvenile shelter since Mom & Dad
refused to come get her.  The shelter is well known for have no security
whatsoever and more often than not people just walk off from there.  Anyway,
I dispatched the call to the officer as "The female juvenile you dropped off
at the Oasis Center just booked."  The officer and everyone listening
understood the usage of "booked" as "ran away".

Although I grew up with this usage, I don't think this is a regional
expression as I am pretty sure I've heard it used that way on TV.  Anyone
care to have a go at this, and why OED doesn't list it ?  (At least from
One-Look Dictionary search's link to OED.)

Thanks,
Bill Stewart
Cape Coral, FL


Usage of "Booked" not in OED Don Phillipson 12/29/02 1:22 PM
"No One" <NoOne@NoWhere.net> wrote in message
news:gwJP9.12445$j8.492379@twister.tampabay.rr.com...

> I dispatched the call to the officer as "The female juvenile you dropped
off
> at the Oasis Center just booked."  The officer and everyone listening
> understood the usage of "booked" as "ran away".
>
> Although I grew up with this usage, I don't think this is a regional
> expression as I am pretty sure I've heard it used that way on TV.  Anyone
> care to have a go at this, and why OED doesn't list it ?  (At least from
> One-Look Dictionary search's link to OED.)

1.  This is an Americanism, rare in Britain; it
appears to refer to the register of daily events
(a book) maintained by US desk sergeants.
2.  It is now known in Britain via TV (a catchphrase
in the series Hawaii 5-0);  only I simply do not
know whether it is used in the same sense.
3.  The possibly regional origins of your word "booked"
do not matter:  all words have to originate somewhere.
(I should be more interested in the word "booked" or
"hooked" heard by your interlocutors.)

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
dphillipson@trytel.com.com.com.less2


Usage of "Booked" not in OED Don Aitken 12/29/02 2:09 PM

The British usage is precisely the opposite to the one Bill describes.
The desk sergeant books someone by formally accepting them into
custody. This is a required part of the procedure - he is required to
satisfy himself that the person has been lawfully arrested, and make a
record of the fact. The practice goes back a long time; most of the
documentation police are now required to do has a much more recent
origin. It was to be heard in virtually every episode of "Dixon of
Dock Green", back in the fifties.

The "run away" meaning is entirely new to me.

--
Don Aitken

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Mark Wallace 12/29/02 3:39 PM

The 'run away' usage is popular in Chandler, and other hard-boiled
dick, crime-story stuff, but I have no idea how it came about.
Doc Robin will probably know; he likes that genre.

--
Mark Wallace
-----------------------------------------------------
For the intelligent approach to nasty humour, visit:
The Anglo-American Humour (humor) Site
http://humorpages.virtualave.net/mainmenu.htm
-----------------------------------------------------

Usage of "Booked" not in OED CyberCypher 12/29/02 3:50 PM
"No One" <NoOne@NoWhere.net> burbled
news:gwJP9.12445$j8.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com:

I think it's much too recent for the OED. I checked a few other online
dictionaries and couldn't find this usage either, but I've known it for  
maybe 20 years. I think (just a guess, mind you) that it's African
American slang and common in all regions of the USA.


--
Franke: Speaker and teacher of Standard International English (SIE)

 

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Bermuda999 12/29/02 3:51 PM
Don Aitken don-a...@freeuk.com

"Book 'em, Danno"

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Tony Cooper 12/29/02 4:00 PM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 00:39:49 +0100, "Mark Wallace" <mwal...@dse.nl>
wrote:

The surprise at  the word "booked" meaning "ran away" surprises me.  I
would understand the word - in this context - to mean not only ran
away, but ran away very quickly:  She booked out of here.  

I am a little surprised that a police officer would use the term since
"booked" also means entered into the system after being arrested.  The
arrest is the action, and the booking is the recording.  It would seem
to be confusing to say "she booked" on the radio since it could be
misunderstood to mean "she was booked".

"Booked", in the leaving sense, is not limited to escaping or running
away.  If I was at a party of the younger set, and asked where
so-and-so was, the answer might be "He booked".  It would just mean he
left.  If I was hipper than I am, I might say to my wife "Let's book"
meaning "Let's leave".

 
--
Provider of Jots, Tittles and the occasional "Oy!"
Tony Cooper aka tony_cooper213 at yahoo.com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Dean 12/29/02 4:05 PM

'OED' can mean a lot of things. The full version is available on-line only
for a subscription (or via certain subscription sites).  The OneLook link is
to http://www.askoxford.com/ which has a limited range of information.
I have the OED on CD and it talks of 'book' as a verb for police activity as
follows :-

c. To make an entry of or against a person's name; esp. to enter (a name) in
a police register for an alleged offence; see also quot. 1846.
   1841 Fistiana 58 The names of individuals of distinction were ‘booked’
for indictment, should the prosecution of the principal+end in a conviction.
1846 Snowden Magistrate's Assistant 344 Caught, taken, or disposed of:
booked.

On the other sense, it has :

To enter (the arrival or departure of an employee, hotel guest, etc.) in a
book; so to book in, out. Also intr. to book off, to sign an attendance book
on going off duty.
   1902 Daily Chron. 13 May 10/5 Baker's+Bookkeeper.—Young lady required,
with good experience, to book men and keep books.

But I'm not familiar with the particular sense you use.
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply


Usage of "Booked" not in OED rzed 12/29/02 4:25 PM

"CyberCypher" <fra...@seed.net.tw> wrote in message
news:Xns92F44FD4E8ED3ccdenews@130.133.1.4...

I heard this usage no later than 1968 (from a co-worker in a job in left in
that year), in the US Midwest. I don't know the origin, although I'd think
it is at least related to the use of "boogie" to mean "go." It may be more
common to say something like "let's book it" than "let's book."

--
rzed

Usage of "Booked" not in OED my-wings 12/29/02 4:17 PM

"Mark Wallace" <mwal...@dse.nl> wrote in message
news:auo16e$8stb0$1@ID-51325.news.dfncis.de...

I remember hearing the term in the late 1960's. I recall it as a slang term
for "to leave," as in: "Let's book." I don't recall any connotation of
running away, but there was a certain amount of alacrity associated with
it..

Alice
product of the American mid-west


Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 12/29/02 4:35 PM
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 22:09:59 +0000, Don Aitken <don-a...@freeuk.com>
wrote:


>The British usage is precisely the opposite to the one Bill describes.
>The desk sergeant books someone by formally accepting them into
>custody. This is a required part of the procedure - he is required to
>satisfy himself that the person has been lawfully arrested, and make a
>record of the fact.
[snip]

We use the word that way, too. One is arrested, taken to the station,
and booked. But "Gotta book!" means "I/we have to leave!"

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED ann bishop 12/29/02 4:48 PM
Don Aitken <don-a...@freeuk.com> wrote:
 
> The British usage is precisely the opposite to the one Bill describes.
> The desk sergeant books someone by formally accepting them into
> custody. This is a required part of the procedure - he is required to
> satisfy himself that the person has been lawfully arrested, and make a
> record of the fact. The practice goes back a long time; most of the
> documentation police are now required to do has a much more recent
> origin. It was to be heard in virtually every episode of "Dixon of
> Dock Green", back in the fifties.
>
> The "run away" meaning is entirely new to me.

Entirely new to me too."Booked"is also used by parking
inspectors,thankfully I haven't been booked by one of those recently but
I have been "booked"by the police for doing an illegal right turn.
I imagine "booked"comes from your name being taken down in an official
book.
--
annieb

anni...@optusnet.com.au

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Ronald Raygun 12/29/02 5:02 PM
No One wrote:

> Specifically, we had a female juvenile in custody on a missing person
> charge,

Not answering the original question, sorry, but taking issue
with "a missing person charge".  THIS IS TERRIBLE!  Makes it
sound as though it's a crime to "be missing".

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Brian Wickham 12/29/02 5:23 PM

This is new to me.  I have spent most of my life in the NYC area and
have never heard it at all.  I've also mispent a lot of my life in
front of a TV set and never heard it there, or maybe it just slipped
by me.  To me, "booked" means turned over to the sergeant at the
booking desk in a precinct house.

Brian Wickham

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Mary Shafer Iliff 12/29/02 5:42 PM
Don Aitken wrote:

> The "run away" meaning is entirely new to me.

It doesn't mean "run away", it means "leave".  I was sitting in
a meeting when the person holding it said, "Everyone but the
members of the Configuration Control Panel can book now" and I
booked.  I've also heard some of my co-workers sat "I'm booking"
as they leave for the day.

It's not new, as I've been using it for at least a decade, and
probably longer.  Let's see, it wasn't new when I was the FTE
on AFTI/F-16, making up flight cards with a DECmate II, so that
would put it back to some time before about 1992.

Mary

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Bermuda999 12/29/02 6:13 PM
Mary Shafer Iliff mil...@qnet.com

The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang:

"book...
3. [infl. by BOOG, BOOGIE, v.] to leave.; to go fast; move along.  -- also
constr. with 'it', 'up'."

[snip of cites going back as far as 1974]

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Don Phillipson 12/29/02 6:17 PM
"Ronald Raygun" <no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
news:SWMP9.6936$hL6.47591449@news-text.cableinet.net...

As well as charged with a crime, this
might mean just that the police had been
charged to find someone under age and missing.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
dphillipson@trytel.com.com.com.less2

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 12/29/02 6:32 PM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 01:23:17 GMT, bwic...@nyc.rr.com (Brian Wickham)
wrote:

>This is new to me.  I have spent most of my life in the NYC area and
>have never heard it at all.  
[snip]

That's strange to me.

I first came across it when my brother was at SUNY-Binghamton, I
think. Perhaps it was used a lot by the Long Islanders who seemed to
be a majority of the population at that school.

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Laura F Spira 12/29/02 9:40 PM

"Da-da da-da DA da.." Thanks for that - the potential STS of the DoDG
signature tune (and even more irritating image of Jack Warner saying
"Evening, all") has now been neatly overlaid.


--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Usage of "Booked" not in OED david56 12/30/02 3:04 AM
Bermuda999 wrote:
> Don Aitken don-a...@freeuk.com
>
>>The British usage is precisely the opposite to the one Bill describes.
>>The desk sergeant books someone by formally accepting them into
>>custody. This is a required part of the procedure - he is required to
>>satisfy himself that the person has been lawfully arrested, and make a
>>record of the fact. The practice goes back a long time; most of the
>>documentation police are now required to do has a much more recent
>>origin. It was to be heard in virtually every episode of "Dixon of
>>Dock Green", back in the fifties.
>
> "Book 'em, Danno"

"Book 'em, Danno, Murder One".

I have never knowingly heard booked meaning skedaddled.  The H5O tag
line above seemed to be the standard meaning of "write their name in a
book reserved for those being arrested".

--
David
-
When I snuff it bury me quick, then let carousels begin.
=====
The address is valid today, but I will change it to keep ahead of the
spammers.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Dean 12/30/02 3:34 AM

Johnny Todd he took a notion
For to cross the ocean wide ....


--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply


Usage of "Booked" not in OED Laura F Spira 12/30/02 3:55 AM
John Dean wrote:
>
> Laura F Spira wrote:
> > Bermuda999 wrote:
> >>
> >> Don Aitken don-a...@freeuk.com
> >>
> >>>
> >>> The British usage is precisely the opposite to the one Bill
> >>> describes.
> >>> The desk sergeant books someone by formally accepting them into
> >>> custody. This is a required part of the procedure - he is required
> >>> to satisfy himself that the person has been lawfully arrested, and
> >>> make a record of the fact. The practice goes back a long time; most
> >>> of the documentation police are now required to do has a much more
> >>> recent
> >>> origin. It was to be heard in virtually every episode of "Dixon of
> >>> Dock Green", back in the fifties.
> >>
> >> "Book 'em, Danno"
> >
> > "Da-da da-da DA da.." Thanks for that - the potential STS of the DoDG
> > signature tune (and even more irritating image of Jack Warner saying
> > "Evening, all") has now been neatly overlaid.
>
> Johnny Todd he took a notion
> For to cross the ocean wide ....

Now that is *cruel*. Be afraid, be very afraid...

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

This message has been hidden because it was flagged for abuse.
Usage of "Booked" not in OED Matti Lamprhey 12/30/02 4:32 AM
"david56" <bass.b...@ntlworld.com> wrote...

> Bermuda999 wrote:
> >
> > "Book 'em, Danno"
>
> "Book 'em, Danno, Murder One".
>
> I have never knowingly heard booked meaning skedaddled.  The H5O tag
> line above seemed to be the standard meaning of "write their name in a
> book reserved for those being arrested".

Yes.  And "booked out" is entirely understandable as slang for "ran away".
Somewhere along the line some illiterate dickhead thought he could omit that
vital modifier.  STGM. [1]

[1] Sic Transit Gloria Mundi

Matti


Usage of "Booked" not in OED R Fontana 12/30/02 5:09 AM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Brian Wickham wrote:

> This is new to me.  I have spent most of my life in the NYC area and
> have never heard it at all.  I've also mispent a lot of my life in
> front of a TV set and never heard it there, or maybe it just slipped
> by me.

I think I've only heard it on TV and the like, never in real life.  My
impression is that it's relatively archaic or obsolete slang, but then
I used to say that about 'cool'.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED ann bishop 12/30/02 5:12 AM
Pan <panNO...@musician.org> wrote:
 
> We use the word that way, too. One is arrested, taken to the station,
> and booked. But "Gotta book!" means "I/we have to leave!"
>
> Michael

Perhaps the "leave"meaning is purely US.
It certainly isn't used that way in Australia.

--
annieb

anni...@optusnet.com.au

This message has been hidden because it was flagged for abuse.
Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 12/30/02 5:41 AM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 08:09:30 -0500, R Fontana
<rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:

>I think I've only heard it on TV and the like, never in real life.  My
>impression is that it's relatively archaic or obsolete slang, but then
>I used to say that about 'cool'.

You really _are_ a callow youth. :-)

Michael

P.S. What did you say for "cool"? "Rad"?

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Tony Cooper 12/30/02 6:04 AM

I plead guilty to being of Midwest origins, but have trouble accepting
"book" with this meaning as regional.  Another form is "He was really
booking" meaning that he was moving fast.  


--
Provider of Jots, Tittles and the occasional "Oy!"
Tony Cooper aka tony_cooper213 at yahoo.com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED mam...@earthlink.net 12/30/02 6:12 AM
No One wrote:


> Anyone
> care to have a go at this, and why OED doesn't list it ?  (At least from
> One-Look Dictionary search's link to OED.)

How did you get One-Look Dictionary to give a link to OED?  When I tried,
the link was to Oxford Paperback Dictionary and Thesaurus, a dictionary of
very limited coverage and depth.


Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Dean 12/30/02 7:27 AM
Laura F Spira wrote:
> John Dean wrote:
>>
>>
>> Johnny Todd he took a notion
>> For to cross the ocean wide ....
>
> Now that is *cruel*. Be afraid, be very afraid...

I shall fear nothing. I have taken Frank Windsor's sage advice and I have
Insurance up the ying-yang as well as a life subscription to SAGA
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply


Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Dean 12/30/02 7:28 AM
Matti Lamprhey wrote:
> "david56" <bass.b...@ntlworld.com> wrote...
>> Bermuda999 wrote:
>>>
>>> "Book 'em, Danno"
>>
>> "Book 'em, Danno, Murder One".
>>
>> I have never knowingly heard booked meaning skedaddled.  The H5O tag
>> line above seemed to be the standard meaning of "write their name in
>> a book reserved for those being arrested".
>
> Yes.  And "booked out" is entirely understandable as slang for "ran
> away". Somewhere along the line some illiterate dickhead thought he
> could omit that vital modifier.  STGM. [1]
>
> [1] Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
>
> Matti

GRT [2]

[2] Goodbye Ruby Tuesday


--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Laura F Spira 12/30/02 7:41 AM
Frances Kemmish wrote:
>
> Laura F Spira wrote:
> > John Dean wrote:
> >
> >>Laura F Spira wrote:
> >>
> >>>Bermuda999 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Don Aitken don-a...@freeuk.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>The British usage is precisely the opposite to the one Bill
> >>>>>describes.
> >>>>>The desk sergeant books someone by formally accepting them into
> >>>>>custody. This is a required part of the procedure - he is required
> >>>>>to satisfy himself that the person has been lawfully arrested, and
> >>>>>make a record of the fact. The practice goes back a long time; most
> >>>>>of the documentation police are now required to do has a much more
> >>>>>recent
> >>>>>origin. It was to be heard in virtually every episode of "Dixon of
> >>>>>Dock Green", back in the fifties.
> >>>>
> >>>>"Book 'em, Danno"
> >>>
> >>>"Da-da da-da DA da.." Thanks for that - the potential STS of the DoDG
> >>>signature tune (and even more irritating image of Jack Warner saying
> >>>"Evening, all") has now been neatly overlaid.

> >>
> >>Johnny Todd he took a notion
> >>For to cross the ocean wide ....
> >
> >
> > Now that is *cruel*. Be afraid, be very afraid...
> >
>
> But Laura, the nostalgia! I just spent ten minutes playing it over and
> over - it takes me back to my youth - Tuesday nights round the
> flickering black and white TV....Aaaaaah..
>
> According to this page, you can even get your mobile phone to play it as
> a ring tone:
>
> http://www.hut.fi/~mhbarker/football/Z-Cars.html
>

You might not feel that way were you subjected to occasional TV glimpses
of the very elderly-looking Fancy Smith and Bert Lynch, reminding you of
just how long ago those Tuesday nights were...

I'm glad it made someone happy. The tune has caused me *real* bother for
the last few hours. I have just walked past Mr Dean's house: had there
been an odd brick lying about, I might have found it difficult to resist
the temptation to lob it through his window.

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

This message has been hidden because it was flagged for abuse.
Usage of "Booked" not in OED Laura F Spira 12/30/02 8:03 AM

WM3A

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Lawler 12/30/02 9:22 AM
Tony Cooper  <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:
>Frances Kemmish <fkem...@optonline.net> writes:
>>R Fontana writes:

>>>Brian Wickham writes:
 
>>>>This is new to me.  I have spent most of my life in the NYC area and
>>>>have never heard it at all.  I've also mispent a lot of my life in
>>>>front of a TV set and never heard it there, or maybe it just slipped
>>>>by me.
 
>>> I think I've only heard it on TV and the like, never in real life.  My
>>> impression is that it's relatively archaic or obsolete slang, but then
>>> I used to say that about 'cool'.

>>We talked about this before (I looked it up - it was in 1999), and most
>>of the people who knew the usage came from the Midwest. I know someone
>>from Binghamton who says "book" meaning "move fast", and when we
>>discussed it in 1999, someone from Buffalo or Rochester also said they
>>used it.

>>It's not archaic, just regional.

>I plead guilty to being of Midwest origins, but have trouble accepting
>"book" with this meaning as regional.  Another form is "He was really
>booking" meaning that he was moving fast.  

This is the one I'm (remotely) familiar with.

A couple of years ago, in a semantics class, we were doing a joint project
on categorizing the English verbs of unaided physical motion (run, walk,
saunter, jump, etc.) and "book" got suggested.  When I expressed surprise,
all the students (born after 1978 and mostly Midwestern) agreed:
 o that it was common,
 o that they'd used it since childhood,
 o that it meant "move fast"
     (as, e.g, on a bicycle),
 o that it was most commonly used in the progressive
     ("He was really bookin'"), and
 o that it was a cool expression
     (i.e, kids their age used it and they wouldn't expect it from adults).

For my (b.1942 DeKalb IL) part, I'd never used it or heard it used in that
sense (or in the "take leave" sense) before, and haven't since, though the
police sergeant's sense is quite familiar.

I have no idea where or when it originated, nor what its source might be
(i.e, I can think of several possibilities off the top of my head, and
 have no evidence for the correctness of any of them).
 
-John Lawler  http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler  U Michigan Linguistics Dept
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    "A man does not know what he is saying until he knows what he
     is not saying."  -- G.K. Chesterton, 1936, "As I Was Saying"

Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Todd 12/30/02 9:59 AM
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:00:16 -0500, Tony Cooper
 <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>The surprise at  the word "booked" meaning "ran away" surprises me.  I
>would understand the word - in this context - to mean not only ran
>away, but ran away very quickly:  She booked out of here.  
>
>I am a little surprised that a police officer would use the term since
>"booked" also means entered into the system after being arrested.  The
>arrest is the action, and the booking is the recording.  It would seem
>to be confusing to say "she booked" on the radio since it could be
>misunderstood to mean "she was booked".
>
>"Booked", in the leaving sense, is not limited to escaping or running
>away.  If I was at a party of the younger set, and asked where
>so-and-so was, the answer might be "He booked".  It would just mean he
>left.  If I was hipper than I am, I might say to my wife "Let's book"
>meaning "Let's leave".

        I'd be interested in seeing your guess about the expression's
origin, Tony.

--
_______________________________________
John E. Todd     <>    jt...@island.net

Note: Ensure correct polarity prior to connection.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Brian Wickham 12/30/02 11:50 AM

This really opens a can of worms!  I'm older than RF but from the same
general area.  To me, "cool" was out, since it was used by adult jazz
fans only and was associated, humoruosly, with berets and chin
whiskers.  As a kid we said "weak", 1951ish; "wicked" 1953ish; "cool",
a rebirth in the mid 1950s; "boss" very briefly in the late 1950s; and
then we spoke English, NYC version mostly, from that time on.  "Cool"
came back in the early 1960s as the only way to describe the James
Bond persona.  But that was not a use of "cool" in the street sense.
"Cool" had become mainstream by then and was unusable as slang until a
new generation came along.

The above are just my observations and can't be proven by me.

Brian Wickham

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Tony Cooper 12/30/02 12:39 PM
On 30 Dec 2002 17:59:31 GMT, jo...@Neopha.44in88.net (John Todd) wrote:

>On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:00:16 -0500, Tony Cooper
> <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>The surprise at  the word "booked" meaning "ran away" surprises me.  I
>>would understand the word - in this context - to mean not only ran
>>away, but ran away very quickly:  She booked out of here.  
>>
>>I am a little surprised that a police officer would use the term since
>>"booked" also means entered into the system after being arrested.  The
>>arrest is the action, and the booking is the recording.  It would seem
>>to be confusing to say "she booked" on the radio since it could be
>>misunderstood to mean "she was booked".
>>
>>"Booked", in the leaving sense, is not limited to escaping or running
>>away.  If I was at a party of the younger set, and asked where
>>so-and-so was, the answer might be "He booked".  It would just mean he
>>left.  If I was hipper than I am, I might say to my wife "Let's book"
>>meaning "Let's leave".
>
>        I'd be interested in seeing your guess about the expression's
>origin, Tony.

I have absolutely no idea.  It's one of those words or phrases that
one hears, absorbs, and sometimes uses without any thought of the
origin.  People assume most such phrases come from African-American
origins, but I feel that caucasian have also contributed to the
lexicon of indefinite origin usage with equal creativity.  

It's a usage that does not conjure up a mental image of what it means
like, say, "hauling ass".  I don't think it's necessarily wrong for a
word or phrase not to have a coining reason or date of origin.  I am
always distrustful of people that say "The first time I heard that
phrase was late afternoon in the second week of August, 1971,  in a
stationery store in Parma, Ohio."  A claim impossible to refute, but
one that sounds too pat for me.

Speaking of stationery stores, and to segue back to a previous thread,
I saw a wondrous thing the other day:  a Pilot retractable fountain
pen.  A mere $115.00.  


--
Provider of Jots, Tittles and the occasional "Oy!"
Tony Cooper aka tony_cooper213 at yahoo.com

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) R Fontana 12/30/02 12:36 PM

Well, you asked, so I better answer. "Rad"? No, of course not.  As far
as I can remember, we had no reason to use any such word, for the most
part.  I mean, it's sort of like the ridiculosity of such words was
apparent from the get-go.  In the case of "cool", the get-go was, as a
rule, the popular 1970s sitcom about an idealized version of the
1950s, _Happy Days_.  Speaking of 1970s Fifties-revivalism, one thing
that divided kids in the late '70s was the popular movie _Grease_. I
don't know whether "cool" was used in _Grease_, but I have the
intuition that if a kid liked _Grease_ when he or she was 11 they were
more likely to use "cool" five or six years later.  Needless to say, I
didn't like _Grease_, which I saw as a bad cultural development.  Hey
C**p, did your kids like _Grease_?

I noticed a gradual increase in youth usage of "cool" during my teenage
years, from about 1982 to 1987.  I can't recall a single usage of
"cool" before 1982 that was not ironical or jocular or Fonzie-referent
in nature.  Even those were pretty uncommon if not completely
nonexistent [note to RJV:  I'm not saying that the usage didn't
exist at that time] (unlike "nerd", another word that was popularized
by _Happy Days_, as I have convincingly shown).  The guy who used it
in 1982 was not a New York speaker, but I don't remember where he was
from.  Chances are it was a northeastern suburb. I do remember that he
was white and middle-class and he had shoulder-length hair, he fancied
himself an electric guitar player like so many white male middle-class
American adolescents from that era, and he -- I'm not making this up
-- was a fan of the beat combo 'Def Leppard'. I think this is probably
extremely significant.  He used 'cool' in the following sentence:
"That ain't cool".  The 'ain't' was ironical, but I don't think the
'cool' was.

After 1982, I don't believe I heard 'cool' again until the end of my
high school years, in 1985 and 1986.  The people I started to hear
using 'cool' were, as a rule, (a) people who lived on the Upper West
Side of Manhattan, or else (b) people who spent a lot of time with
people who lived on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, and it was
without exception students who had relatively high social status. I
think this too may be very significant.  I don't want to give you the
impression that 'cool' was commonly used by such people.  But it was
occasionally used, and naturally so.  And other people just
didn't use it.  However, I'm dead sure it was only used as an
adjective at this time.  When I started college in 1987 I began to hear
adjectival "cool" used with even greater frequency; I went to a college
whose student body was drawn from all over the place but the biggest
concentration was people from the East Coast, especially the New York,
Boston and D.C. metropolitan regions, particularly the New York one.

I don't know when I started to hear the special interjection "Cool!" or
its variant "Kewl!", but I don't remember being strongly aware of this
till after 1990, which is quite late.  Sure (hi RJV!), maybe it was
used way back in _Fast Times at Ridgemont High_, but I still haven't
seen that.

Regarding 'what word did I use', like I said, I can't recall ever
needing one.  I think for some uses of 'cool' today we'd use "good" or
"great", maybe "neat" which I still sometimes say today, but that
might be more from my childhood speech.  When I was in
seventh grade (1980-1981) many boys (not girls) in my grade started
using "Excellent!", and I remember there being an awareness of it
being sort of an ironical faddish youth thing of the day.  This died
out quickly, but it's interesting that it persisted in the larger
society, and I think even today "Excellent!" is associated with young
teenagers.  It's my recollection that the kids who were using
"Excellent!" in 1980-1981 were pretty much exactly the same as the kids
who had microcomputers at home and a special interest in subjects
mathematical and scientific.

I can remember some of us jocularly and ironically using "awesome" in
imitation of Valley Girl speech, but the point is that it was
essentially foreign, the whole notion of needing such a word.  Probably
some people similarly jocularly used "cool", and I'm just not
remembering it.  But one thing's for sure, the Upper West Side hipsters
in the mid-'80s were using it naturally (though not continuously).

Regarding gender, my sense from looking back on the 1985-1989 period
is that the users of "cool" were more likely to be female.
The first bizarre older-generation-reappropriation of "cool" that I
noticed was in 1990.


Usage of "Booked" not in OED Tony Cooper 12/30/02 1:05 PM

In Ireland, or at least in parts of Ireland, the word is heard as
"fooked", as in "He fooked out a here, didn't he?"


--
Provider of Jots, Tittles and the occasional "Oy!"
Tony Cooper aka tony_cooper213 at yahoo.com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Dawkins 12/30/02 1:18 PM
In article <auo16e$8stb0$1...@ID-51325.news.dfncis.de>,
 "Mark Wallace" <mwal...@dse.nl> wrote:

> Don Aitken wrote:
> > On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:22:57 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
> > <dphil...@trytel.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "No One" <NoOne@NoWhere.net> wrote in message
> >> news:gwJP9.12445$j8.492379@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> >>
> >>> I dispatched the call to the officer as "The female juvenile
> >>> you dropped off at the Oasis Center just booked."  The officer
> >>> and everyone listening understood the usage of "booked" as "ran
> >>> away".
> >>>
> >>> Although I grew up with this usage, I don't think this is a
> >>> regional expression as I am pretty sure I've heard it used that
> >>> way on TV.  Anyone care to have a go at this, and why OED


> >>> doesn't list it ?  (At least from One-Look Dictionary search's
> >>> link to OED.)
> >>
> >> 1.  This is an Americanism, rare in Britain; it
> >> appears to refer to the register of daily events
> >> (a book) maintained by US desk sergeants.
> >> 2.  It is now known in Britain via TV (a catchphrase
> >> in the series Hawaii 5-0);  only I simply do not
> >> know whether it is used in the same sense.
> >> 3.  The possibly regional origins of your word "booked"
> >> do not matter:  all words have to originate somewhere.
> >> (I should be more interested in the word "booked" or
> >> "hooked" heard by your interlocutors.)

> >
> > The British usage is precisely the opposite to the one Bill
> > describes. The desk sergeant books someone by formally accepting
> > them into custody. This is a required part of the procedure - he
> > is required to satisfy himself that the person has been lawfully
> > arrested, and make a record of the fact. The practice goes back a
> > long time; most of the documentation police are now required to
> > do has a much more recent origin. It was to be heard in virtually
> > every episode of "Dixon of Dock Green", back in the fifties.
> >
> > The "run away" meaning is entirely new to me.
>
> The 'run away' usage is popular in Chandler, and other hard-boiled
> dick, crime-story stuff, but I have no idea how it came about.
> Doc Robin will probably know; he likes that genre.

Do you remember which Chandler novel or story this usage appears in?

--
J.

This message has been hidden because it was flagged for abuse.
Usage of "Booked" not in OED Tony Cooper 12/30/02 2:16 PM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 21:57:52 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
<padr...@iol.ie> wrote:

>>>It depends on what size region you have in mind. I'm fairly sure that
>>>"booked" is not used in Ireland in any of the senses "run away" or
>>>"escape" or "get out" or "move fast".
>>>
>>
>>In Ireland, or at least in parts of Ireland, the word is heard as
>>"fooked", as in "He fooked out a here, didn't he?"
>
>That's "fucked", the Swiss army vocabulary knife of the inarticulate.
>
I am aware of the meaning.  Phonetically, though, it is "fooked" in
some areas.  Tell me you haven't heard "The fookin' thing won't fit in
the fookin' place where it's supposed to fookin' fit.  I'm fookin'
tired of fookin' wi' it.  It can get fooked for all I care."


--
Provider of Jots, Tittles and the occasional "Oy!"
Tony Cooper aka tony_cooper213 at yahoo.com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED david56 12/30/02 3:12 PM
Tony Cooper wrote:

> Speaking of stationery stores, and to segue back to a previous thread,
> I saw a wondrous thing the other day:  a Pilot retractable fountain
> pen.  A mere $115.00.  

Oooohhh.  At the bottom of this page
http://www.pilotpen.co.uk/whatsnew/new1.htm.  I must have one.

--
David
-
When I snuff it bury me quick, then let carousels begin.
=====
The address is valid today, but I will change it to keep ahead of the
spammers.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Simon R. Hughes 12/30/02 3:26 PM
Thus Spake david56:

> Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> > Speaking of stationery stores, and to segue back to a previous thread,
> > I saw a wondrous thing the other day:  a Pilot retractable fountain
> > pen.  A mere $115.00.  
>
> Oooohhh.  At the bottom of this page
> http://www.pilotpen.co.uk/whatsnew/new1.htm.  I must have one.

The 14 ct gold nib is far too soft; I would bend it in a matter of
hours. I prefer sprung steel.
--
Simon R. Hughes
<!--  -->

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Simon R. Hughes 12/30/02 3:28 PM
Thus Spake Simon R. Hughes:

I'd also have to snap that clip off -- it would get in the way.

--
Simon R. Hughes
<!--  -->

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Simon R. Hughes 12/30/02 3:41 PM
Thus Spake Padraig Breathnach:
> Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >In Ireland, or at least in parts of Ireland, the word is heard as
> >"fooked", as in "He fooked out a here, didn't he?"
>
> That's "fucked", the Swiss army vocabulary knife of the inarticulate.

Hey! Don't fuckin' start!


--
Simon R. Hughes
<!--  -->

This message has been hidden because it was flagged for abuse.
Usage of "Booked" not in OED Aaron J. Dinkin 12/30/02 5:35 PM
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:42:52 -0800, Mary Shafer Iliff <mil...@qnet.com> wrote:

> Don Aitken wrote:
>
>> The "run away" meaning is entirely new to me.
>
> It doesn't mean "run away", it means "leave".  I was sitting in
> a meeting when the person holding it said, "Everyone but the
> members of the Configuration Control Panel can book now" and I
> booked.  I've also heard some of my co-workers sat "I'm booking"
> as they leave for the day.

To me it doesn't mean 'run away' or 'leave'; it means 'hurry (to get
somewhere)'. "Everyone but the members of the panel can book now" would
mean little to me. I would say something like "My bus leaves in half an
hour, but if I really book it, I should get to the station before it
leaves."

I'm also more likely to say "book it" than "book".

-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Gary G. Taylor 12/30/02 5:46 PM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:36:30 -0500, R Fontana
<rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:

>I noticed a gradual increase in youth usage of "cool" during my teenage
>years, from about 1982 to 1987.  I can't recall a single usage of
>"cool" before 1982 that was not ironical or jocular or Fonzie-referent
>in nature.  Even those were pretty uncommon if not completely
>nonexistent [note to RJV:  I'm not saying that the usage didn't
>exist at that time] (unlike "nerd", another word that was popularized
>by _Happy Days_, as I have convincingly shown).  The guy who used it
>in 1982 was not a New York speaker, but I don't remember where he was
>from.  Chances are it was a northeastern suburb. I do remember that he
>was white and middle-class and he had shoulder-length hair, he fancied
>himself an electric guitar player like so many white male middle-class
>American adolescents from that era, and he -- I'm not making this up
>-- was a fan of the beat combo 'Def Leppard'. I think this is probably
>extremely significant.  He used 'cool' in the following sentence:
>"That ain't cool".  The 'ain't' was ironical, but I don't think the
>'cool' was.

I recall "cool" in the 1950s, as part of beatnik and musician slang.
Quite common. I believe it goes back farther than that; I seem to
recall having heard it used by the then-equivalent of hipsters in
1930s movies.

--
Gary G. Taylor * Rialto, CA
gary at cdfound dot org
www dot geetee dot cdfound dot org
I REPORT ***ALL*** SPAM!
"The two most abundant things in the Universe are
hydrogen and stupidity."  --Harlan Ellison

Usage of "Booked" not in OED GrapeApe 12/30/02 5:55 PM
>>"Booked", in the leaving sense, is not limited to escaping or running
>>away.  If I was at a party of the younger set, and asked where
>>so-and-so was, the answer might be "He booked".  It would just mean he
>>left.  If I was hipper than I am, I might say to my wife "Let's book"
>>meaning "Let's leave".

Past discussion of 'booked' in this sense brought up the point that it is not
necessarily for the vector to be 'away'.  If one saw a vehicle coming towards
one, you could even say it booked, in getting there. My sense of folk etymology
wants to tie it into breaking a speed record, which may be entered in a book.
Also, see: Boogie.

Being booked, is being entered in the record, such as a book of racing
statistitcs, or the criminal record.

>>
>>I am a little surprised that a police officer would use the term since
>>"booked" also means entered into the system after being arrested.  The
>>arrest is the action, and the booking is the recording.  It would seem
>>to be confusing to say "she booked" on the radio since it could be
>>misunderstood to mean "she was booked".

I think in most leftpondian dialog, if a the girl was processed into jail so,
the helping verb 'was' would almost always be there, to show that she is the
passive object of the booking.  It is not like the verb 'pass'.  Without the
"was", the phrase would be "She booked" which would then bring up the "ran very
fast" meaning.


Usage of "Booked" not in OED Skitt 12/30/02 6:09 PM
GrapeApe wrote:

>>> "Booked", in the leaving sense, is not limited to escaping or
>>> running away.  If I was at a party of the younger set, and asked
>>> where so-and-so was, the answer might be "He booked".  It would
>>> just mean he left.  If I was hipper than I am, I might say to my
>>> wife "Let's book" meaning "Let's leave".
>
> Past discussion of 'booked' in this sense brought up the point that
> it is not necessarily for the vector to be 'away'.  If one saw a
> vehicle coming towards one, you could even say it booked, in getting
> there. My sense of folk etymology wants to tie it into breaking a
> speed record, which may be entered in a book. Also, see: Boogie.

I agree with this.  To "book" is to go.  It could be in any direction.  I
have no idea where I first heard this word with that particular meaning, but
it was quite a few years ago.  I hesitate to guess when, though.

It seems that in certain East Coast neighborhoods that meaning is not
clearly understood.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area)    http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
  I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
                   -- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 12/30/02 6:45 PM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 17:22:21 GMT, jla...@zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu
(John Lawler) wrote:

>Tony Cooper  <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:

>>I plead guilty to being of Midwest origins, but have trouble accepting
>>"book" with this meaning as regional.  Another form is "He was really
>>booking" meaning that he was moving fast.  
>
>This is the one I'm (remotely) familiar with.
[snip]

And I've never heard that usage.

I see no-one has suggested that "to book," meaning "to leave," derives
from "to book a flight." I guess it doesn't.

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 12/30/02 6:47 PM
On 31 Dec 2002 01:55:02 GMT, grapeape@aol.comjunk (GrapeApe) wrote:

>Past discussion of 'booked' in this sense brought up the point that it is not
>necessarily for the vector to be 'away'.  If one saw a vehicle coming towards
>one, you could even say it booked, in getting there.

Not in my usage. "Booked" means "left," period.

> My sense of folk etymology
>wants to tie it into breaking a speed record, which may be entered in a book.

Interesting.

>Also, see: Boogie.
[snip]

Boogie means to dance fast, originally, as in "boogie-woogie"?

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 12/30/02 6:53 PM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 19:50:38 GMT, bwic...@nyc.rr.com (Brian Wickham)
wrote:

>This really opens a can of worms!  I'm older than RF but from the same
>general area.  To me, "cool" was out, since it was used by adult jazz
>fans only and was associated, humoruosly, with berets and chin
>whiskers.  As a kid we said "weak", 1951ish; "wicked" 1953ish; "cool",
>a rebirth in the mid 1950s; "boss" very briefly in the late 1950s; and
>then we spoke English, NYC version mostly, from that time on.  "Cool"
>came back in the early 1960s as the only way to describe the James
>Bond persona.  But that was not a use of "cool" in the street sense.
>"Cool" had become mainstream by then and was unusable as slang until a
>new generation came along.
[snip]

Thanks for addressing this.

My memory was that I and my age-mates used "neat!" and "neato!" until
I was in 7th grade (1977-78).* From that point on, "cool!" was used,
and I still use it, though it's now dated slang from the viewpoint of
the new generation.

"Awesome!" and, somewhat humorously, "totally awesome!" (especially
with a stylized accent and cadence) were picked up to a degree from
Valley Girl talk around 1977-78, too. I don't think New Yorkers ever
fully domesticated them in normal speech.

*Full disclosure: I was in Malaysia from 1975-77, so I have no idea
when the changeover from "neat!" to "cool!" happened.

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Tony Cooper 12/30/02 7:25 PM
On 31 Dec 2002 01:55:02 GMT, grapeape@aol.comjunk (GrapeApe) wrote:

>>>I am a little surprised that a police officer would use the term since
>>>"booked" also means entered into the system after being arrested.  The
>>>arrest is the action, and the booking is the recording.  It would seem
>>>to be confusing to say "she booked" on the radio since it could be
>>>misunderstood to mean "she was booked".
>
>I think in most leftpondian dialog, if a the girl was processed into jail so,
>the helping verb 'was' would almost always be there, to show that she is the
>passive object of the booking.  It is not like the verb 'pass'.  Without the
>"was", the phrase would be "She booked" which would then bring up the "ran very
>fast" meaning.
>
I think the difference between "she booked" and "she was booked" is
very clear.  What surprised me, though, is the use of the "she booked"
term on the phone or radio.  A word or meaning can become scrambled in
transmission and would be very misleading.  That's why police tend to
say things like "negative" instead of "no"....less chance of garbling.


 
--
Provider of Jots, Tittles and the occasional "Oy!"
Tony Cooper aka tony_cooper213 at yahoo.com

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) sa...@non.com 12/30/02 8:09 PM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:36:30 -0500, R Fontana
<rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:

>  In the case of "cool", the get-go was, as a
>rule, the popular 1970s sitcom about an idealized version of the
>1950s, _Happy Days_.

Nonsense. "Cool" was very common in the fifties. It ranked right up
there with "daddyo".

Larry

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Steve Hayes 12/30/02 9:00 PM
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:00:16 -0500, Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>The surprise at  the word "booked" meaning "ran away" surprises me.  I
>would understand the word - in this context - to mean not only ran
>away, but ran away very quickly:  She booked out of here.  
>
>I am a little surprised that a police officer would use the term since
>"booked" also means entered into the system after being arrested.  The
>arrest is the action, and the booking is the recording.  It would seem
>to be confusing to say "she booked" on the radio since it could be
>misunderstood to mean "she was booked".
>
>"Booked", in the leaving sense, is not limited to escaping or running
>away.  If I was at a party of the younger set, and asked where
>so-and-so was, the answer might be "He booked".  It would just mean he
>left.  If I was hipper than I am, I might say to my wife "Let's book"
>meaning "Let's leave".

But for the post-20th Party Congress pre-Cuban Missile Crisis generation of
cool users, the cool thing to say is "let's split."

Like some others here, I'd heard of booking in, or being booked in, but never
of booking out. That must be confined to the post-UDI pre Prague Spring
generation of cool users.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Smith 12/30/02 9:02 PM
Frances Kemmish wrote:
> <...>

> It's not archaic, just regional.

It's not regional in the U.S. In my experience, it was universal among
U.S. servicemen in Europe in the late 1960s. It meant "to leave."
Period. After about 20 minutes in a bar, someone would yell "Book!" and
all the cool people would proceed to the next bar.

\\P. Schultz

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) sand 12/30/02 9:55 PM

It is speculation on my part, but perhaps "cool" came to be used in
the sense of approval to indicate somebody in control and not easily
shaken by circumstance.

Jan Sand

Usage of "Booked" not in OED R J Valentine 12/30/02 10:35 PM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:39:55 -0500 Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
...

}                                                                 I am
} always distrustful of people that say "The first time I heard that
} phrase was late afternoon in the second week of August, 1971,  in a
} stationery store in Parma, Ohio."  A claim impossible to refute, but
} one that sounds too pat for me.
...

Yet it happens.  It's often related to the Kennedy syndrome ((now the 9/11
syndrome) "Where were you?"), but on a more personal level.  

For instance, It happens that I remember the state, town, village, street,
house number, and room where I first heard the expression "I could care
less" in 1962, but the month and day elude me just now.  It sounded plain
wrong at the time, but I hadn't been in the Army yet to appreciate why a
drill sergeant might phrase it that way.

A few months ago I had the occasion to be (re)introduced to a family I had
met last February 9th (a Saturday evening (I didn't just check, so someone
playing the odds could find me wrong if I were), and they seemed surprised
that I knew exactly when and where I saw them last.  It happened that I
had injured my hand the week before, which was an easy date to remember
(02/02/02) and they nearly brought me to my knees when they shook my hand,
but I didn't want to trouble them with that information, so I just
shrugged it off as if I were burdened with a good memory.

Everyone has dates and times they remember, and sometimes a matter of
English usage can be associated with them.

I can probably come up with the date that I first heard the word "decade"
pronounced with the accent on the second syllable.  But then so can
probably half the people on alt.usage.english.

--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>

History of 'Cool' ctd. R J Valentine 12/30/02 10:46 PM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:36:30 -0500 R Fontana <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:

}                                          When I was in
} seventh grade (1980-1981) many boys (not girls) in my grade started
} using "Excellent!", and I remember there being an awareness of it
} being sort of an ironical faddish youth thing of the day.  

When was _Wayne's World_ first on _Saturday Night Live_?

--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 12/30/02 11:40 PM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 05:00:06 GMT, haye...@yahoo.com (Steve Hayes)
wrote:

>But for the post-20th Party Congress pre-Cuban Missile Crisis generation of
>cool users, the cool thing to say is "let's split."
[snip]

I consider "to split" to be a totally normal usage.

Michael (post-Cuban Missile Crisis)

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Mark Wallace 12/31/02 1:52 AM
John Todd wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:00:16 -0500, Tony Cooper
>  <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> The surprise at  the word "booked" meaning "ran away" surprises
>> me.  I would understand the word - in this context - to mean not
>> only ran away, but ran away very quickly:  She booked out of
>> here.
>>
>> I am a little surprised that a police officer would use the term
>> since "booked" also means entered into the system after being
>> arrested.  The arrest is the action, and the booking is the
>> recording.  It would seem to be confusing to say "she booked" on
>> the radio since it could be misunderstood to mean "she was
>> booked".
>>
>> "Booked", in the leaving sense, is not limited to escaping or
>> running away.  If I was at a party of the younger set, and asked
>> where so-and-so was, the answer might be "He booked".  It would
>> just mean he left.  If I was hipper than I am, I might say to my
>> wife "Let's book" meaning "Let's leave".
>
> I'd be interested in seeing your guess about the expression's
> origin, Tony.

Please don't call me Tony.

Anyway, I should imagine the 'booked', as in 'departed', comes from
the days of ocean liners -- 'booked passage' -- which explains the
Chandler connection.

--
Mark Wallace
-----------------------------------------------------
For the intelligent approach to nasty humour, visit:
The Anglo-American Humour (humor) Site
http://humorpages.virtualave.net/mainmenu.htm
-----------------------------------------------------

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Mark Wallace 12/31/02 1:54 AM

Good grief, no.
I can't remember where *I* wrote stuff, let alone anyone else.

--
Mark Wallace
-----------------------------------------------------
For the intelligent approach to nasty humour, visit:
The Anglo-American Humour (humor) Site
http://humorpages.virtualave.net/mainmenu.htm
-----------------------------------------------------

History of 'Cool' ctd. R Fontana 12/31/02 2:28 AM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, R J Valentine wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:36:30 -0500 R Fontana <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>
> }                                          When I was in
> } seventh grade (1980-1981) many boys (not girls) in my grade started
> } using "Excellent!", and I remember there being an awareness of it
> } being sort of an ironical faddish youth thing of the day.
>
> When was _Wayne's World_ first on _Saturday Night Live_?

Long after that.  I think _Wayne's World_ premiered around 1990,
certainly no earlier than 1989.  ICLIUBITLOC.  Does anyone remember
kids using "Excellent!" before 1980?  It occurs to me now that there
was one annoying guy in my high school who continued to use
"Excellent!" through the end of twelfth grade.

When I was in seventh grade and kids started saying "Excellent!", that
was the first season that Eddie Murphy was on _Saturday Night Live_,
and the first season without the Not Ready For Prime Time
Players.  That was the season where Murphy did his Velvet Jones (_I
Want To Be A Ho_) character, which I believe must be what first
popularized 'ho' on a national level.  This was also the season  where
Joe Piscopo did his "I'm from Joizy! Are you from Joizy? What exit?"
sketch, which was also very culturally influential.

Also during that season, there was a sort of imitation of SNL on ABC
on Friday night at 11:30 called _Fridays_, a sketch comedy
show led by Michael Richards, who resurfaced in the 1990s as
"Kramer" on _Seinfeld_.  I watched it that year, but I don't remember
whether it was funny.  The only other cast member I remember was
Melanie Chartoff, but I see now that Larry David, the co-creator of
_Seinfeld_ (and the model for the character George Costanza) was also
in the cast.  I don't think I watched _SCTV_ until 1982 or so, during
the time when it was the greatest comedy show in television history.

Also, some of my earliest memories are of watching _The Carol Burnett
Show_ and laughing hysterically even though I didn't understand any of
it.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Charles Riggs 12/31/02 2:31 AM

I doubt you meant "bend". It might wear down quickly, but so what?
Just get a new one, if you can afford the first one. I suspect it'd
have a pleasant feel to it, when writing. I'm not sure I've ever seen
a pen with a 14 ct gold nib, but I think it'd suit me if I found one.

--
Charles Riggs
chriggs |at| eircom |dot| com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Charles Riggs 12/31/02 2:31 AM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 00:28:11 +0100, Simon R. Hughes
<shu...@tromso.online.no> wrote:


>I'd also have to snap that clip off -- it would get in the way.

I'd have to have the clip, for attaching it to my shirt pocket.
Neither of my two Cross clips have ever annoyed me.

--
Charles Riggs
chriggs |at| eircom |dot| com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Charles Riggs 12/31/02 2:31 AM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 08:09:30 -0500, R Fontana
<rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:


>I think I've only heard it on TV and the like, never in real life.  My
>impression is that it's relatively archaic or obsolete slang, but then
>I used to say that about 'cool'.

Cool, a word from American English, is not obsolete. It came into
popular use in the late 40s, went out, and has come back again. I hear
it from people in their twenties, fairly frequently, even in Ireland.
The Irish love our hamburgers, too -- they just eat them up -- loath
as Padraig is to admit it.

--
Charles Riggs
chriggs |at| eircom |dot| com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Charles Riggs 12/31/02 2:31 AM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:52:11 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
<padr...@iol.ie> wrote:

>Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 08:30:38 -0500, Frances Kemmish
>><fkem...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>>We talked about this before (I looked it up - it was in 1999), and most
>>>of the people who knew the usage came from the Midwest. I know someone
>>>from Binghamton who says "book" meaning "move fast", and when we
>>>discussed it in 1999, someone from Buffalo or Rochester also said they
>>>used it.


>>>
>>>It's not archaic, just regional.
>>
>>I plead guilty to being of Midwest origins, but have trouble accepting
>>"book" with this meaning as regional.  Another form is "He was really
>>booking" meaning that he was moving fast.  
>
>It depends on what size region you have in mind. I'm fairly sure that
>"booked" is not used in Ireland in any of the senses "run away" or
>"escape" or "get out" or "move fast".

Correct. Sorry, but I *do* have my papers now, scary as that thought
is to some around here.

Would the Irish use boogie, as some Americans do, for that meaning? I
don't recall hearing it. It is probably a Black American English term,
but I like it and have used it on occasion.

OK, I'm gonna boogie out of here, man.

--
Charles Riggs
chriggs |at| eircom |dot| com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Charles Riggs 12/31/02 2:31 AM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 21:57:52 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
<padr...@iol.ie> wrote:

>Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:52:11 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
>><padr...@iol.ie> wrote:
>>
>>>Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 08:30:38 -0500, Frances Kemmish
>>>><fkem...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>We talked about this before (I looked it up - it was in 1999), and most
>>>>>of the people who knew the usage came from the Midwest. I know someone
>>>>>from Binghamton who says "book" meaning "move fast", and when we
>>>>>discussed it in 1999, someone from Buffalo or Rochester also said they
>>>>>used it.
>>>>>
>>>>>It's not archaic, just regional.
>>>>
>>>>I plead guilty to being of Midwest origins, but have trouble accepting
>>>>"book" with this meaning as regional.  Another form is "He was really
>>>>booking" meaning that he was moving fast.  
>>>
>>>It depends on what size region you have in mind. I'm fairly sure that
>>>"booked" is not used in Ireland in any of the senses "run away" or
>>>"escape" or "get out" or "move fast".
>>>
>>
>>In Ireland, or at least in parts of Ireland, the word is heard as
>>"fooked", as in "He fooked out a here, didn't he?"
>
>That's "fucked", the Swiss army vocabulary knife of the inarticulate.

Which some Americans, of a darker shade than you or I, pronounce as
fook, when used in the present tense. Hence the joke, "Focus? Both
us?", which I've related before.

--
Charles Riggs
chriggs |at| eircom |dot| com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Charles Riggs 12/31/02 2:31 AM

Ha-ha. You have a sense of humour.

--
Charles Riggs
chriggs |at| eircom |dot| com

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Charles Riggs 12/31/02 2:32 AM

Close, but no cigar. The word originated with American jazz musicians
to distinguish cool jazz from hot jazz. Cool jazz must have seen to be
the superior of the two, since cool soon took on its positive sense.

--
Charles Riggs
chriggs |at| eircom |dot| com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED R Fontana 12/31/02 2:42 AM

Very interesting.  To me "to split" has always been dead archaic.  I
think I associate it mainly with the cartoon series _Scooby Doo, Where
Are You!_.  Very interesting.  I can remember one high school
classmate of mine who sometimes used "split", but he also used other
archaic expressions associated with past epochs.

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Laura F Spira 12/31/02 2:50 AM
R Fontana wrote:
>
> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Pan wrote:

>
> > On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 08:09:30 -0500, R Fontana
> > <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
> >
> > >I think I've only heard it on TV and the like, never in real life.  My
> > >impression is that it's relatively archaic or obsolete slang, but then
> > >I used to say that about 'cool'.
> >
> > You really _are_ a callow youth. :-)
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > P.S. What did you say for "cool"? "Rad"?
>
> Well, you asked, so I better answer. "Rad"? No, of course not.  As far
> as I can remember, we had no reason to use any such word, for the most
> part.  I mean, it's sort of like the ridiculosity of such words was
> apparent from the get-go.  In the case of "cool", the get-go was, as a

> rule, the popular 1970s sitcom about an idealized version of the
> 1950s, _Happy Days_.  Speaking of 1970s Fifties-revivalism, one thing
> that divided kids in the late '70s was the popular movie _Grease_. I
> don't know whether "cool" was used in _Grease_, but I have the
> intuition that if a kid liked _Grease_ when he or she was 11 they were
> more likely to use "cool" five or six years later.  Needless to say, I
> didn't like _Grease_, which I saw as a bad cultural development.  Hey
> C**p, did your kids like _Grease_?

>
> I noticed a gradual increase in youth usage of "cool" during my teenage
> years, from about 1982 to 1987.  

<big snip>

I think there are distinct Pondian differences in such words.

When we visited the US with our children (aged 14 and 11) in 1987, the
UK equivalent of whatever was then cool, was, for the 11 year old,
"brilliant". This caused much comment among the relatives and friends of
all ages we stayed with in New York, the Mid-West and California. The 14
year old was already using "ace", which seemed readily understandable
and unremarkable to everyone. These days, they both use "cool" quite
frequently but I have no idea how they spell it.

I am old enough to remember when "swinging" was popular in the UK (as
opposed to "dodgy"). I also remember the puzzlement of my parents on
receiving a postcard from me from Belgium in about 1962, describing the
hotel I was staying in as "grotty".

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

This message has been hidden because it was flagged for abuse.
Usage of "Booked" not in OED Simon R. Hughes 12/31/02 3:44 AM
Thus Spake Charles Riggs:

> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 00:26:49 +0100, Simon R. Hughes
> <shu...@tromso.online.no> wrote:
>
> >Thus Spake david56:
> >> Tony Cooper wrote:
> >>
> >> > Speaking of stationery stores, and to segue back to a previous thread,
> >> > I saw a wondrous thing the other day:  a Pilot retractable fountain
> >> > pen.  A mere $115.00.  
> >>
> >> Oooohhh.  At the bottom of this page
> >> http://www.pilotpen.co.uk/whatsnew/new1.htm.  I must have one.
> >
> >The 14 ct gold nib is far too soft; I would bend it in a matter of
> >hours. I prefer sprung steel.
>
> I doubt you meant "bend". It might wear down quickly, but so what?
> Just get a new one, if you can afford the first one. I suspect it'd
> have a pleasant feel to it, when writing.

My Cross has a gold nib. If I use it, and I don't much any more, I
often need to turn the pen over and bend the nib back, so that the
gap between the two sides is narrow enough to draw the ink down from
the reservoir. Perhaps it has something to do with my left-
handedness making it necessary to push the pen more than a right-
hander would.

The sprung (blued) steel of my Lamy feels good to write with, it's
just a shame the cartridges are so difficult to get hold of.

> I'm not sure I've ever seen
> a pen with a 14 ct gold nib, but I think it'd suit me if I found one.
--
Simon R. Hughes
<!--  -->

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) R Fontana 12/31/02 4:24 AM

Of course.  That's my whole point.  "Cool" was a 1950s-ism that died
out during the 1960s and was dead by 1974 when _Happy Days_ was
launched.  _Happy Days_ was the sort of sitcom that I think is not as
common today, one that was aimed at all age groups, from very young
children to adults.  (Sitcoms today are almost without
exception aimed at the 23-49 age group, or maybe it's narrower than
that, which is why they're so bad.)  _Happy Days_ specifically used the
word "cool" as an *archaism*, a slang word that was as dead as "swell"
in the real world of the mid-1970s.

"Cool" was like the varsity jacket that Richie Cunningham wore:  a
token of the distant past.  It was like a1a, but on a lesser scale. I
think you had to be a kid then to understand how ancient the 1950s and
even the 1960s were to young kids in 1975.  I'm sure The Kids
Today[tm] feel the same way about the 1980s and the 1990s.  Well, this
must have been part of the appeal of _Happy Days_ to children.  I
believe that (along with lots of other features of child-oriented
popular culture) it allowed them to begin to forge a generational
identity entirely distinct from, and even in opposition to, the
previous youth culture of the 1950s and 1960s, which was probably seen
by many as having had a catastrophic cultural effect on American
society in the 1960s.  It is of the greatest significance that "cool"
was revived and not a word associated more with the '60s, like,
say, "groovy".

We start to see kids gradually picking up "cool" again in
significant numbers beginning with the age group that would have
enthusiastically watched _Happy Days_ as children.  I think when you
look at 1970s popular culture in America and see how pervasive the cult
of Fonzie was among children and how closely associated he was with the
word "cool", the conclusion is inescapable that the revival of "cool"
was begun by Fonzie and _Happy Days_.  I don't know of any television
character today with a similar sort of influence, except maybe
Spongebob.

Of course I'm oversimplifying things to some extent.


Usage of "Booked" not in OED R Fontana 12/31/02 4:30 AM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Pan wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 19:50:38 GMT, bwic...@nyc.rr.com (Brian Wickham)
> wrote:
>
> >This really opens a can of worms!  I'm older than RF but from the same
> >general area.  To me, "cool" was out, since it was used by adult jazz
> >fans only and was associated, humoruosly, with berets and chin
> >whiskers.  As a kid we said "weak", 1951ish; "wicked" 1953ish; "cool",
> >a rebirth in the mid 1950s; "boss" very briefly in the late 1950s; and
> >then we spoke English, NYC version mostly, from that time on.  "Cool"
> >came back in the early 1960s as the only way to describe the James
> >Bond persona.  But that was not a use of "cool" in the street sense.
> >"Cool" had become mainstream by then and was unusable as slang until a
> >new generation came along.
> [snip]
>
> Thanks for addressing this.
>
> My memory was that I and my age-mates used "neat!" and "neato!" until
> I was in 7th grade (1977-78).* From that point on, "cool!" was used,
> and I still use it, though it's now dated slang from the viewpoint of
> the new generation.

Very interesting.  The "neato" surprises me, though I seem to remember
my brother (b. 1962) saying "neato-keeno".

> "Awesome!" and, somewhat humorously, "totally awesome!" (especially
> with a stylized accent and cadence) were picked up to a degree from
> Valley Girl talk around 1977-78, too.

That early?  I would have thought 1981 or so.

> I don't think New Yorkers ever
> fully domesticated them in normal speech.

Probably not.

> *Full disclosure: I was in Malaysia from 1975-77, so I have no idea
> when the changeover from "neat!" to "cool!" happened.

This is greatly significant.  You were in Malaysia precisely during the
years when _Happy Days_ was at the height of its popularity among
kids.  I imagine you were able to watch _Kojak_ over there, though.

History of 'Cool' ctd. Maria Conlon 12/31/02 4:43 AM
R Fontana wrote:

>...ICLIUBITLOC.  

I Could Look It Up But I'm Too Lazy, Old Chum?

Maria

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) sa...@non.com 12/31/02 5:59 AM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:24:23 -0500, R Fontana
<rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 sa...@non.com wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:36:30 -0500, R Fontana
>> <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >  In the case of "cool", the get-go was, as a
>> >rule, the popular 1970s sitcom about an idealized version of the
>> >1950s, _Happy Days_.
>>
>> Nonsense. "Cool" was very common in the fifties. It ranked right up
>> there with "daddyo".
>
>Of course.  That's my whole point.  "Cool" was a 1950s-ism that died
>out during the 1960s and was dead by 1974 when _Happy Days_ was
>launched.

My error. I took your meaning to be that _Happy Days_ had coined the
meaning.

>We start to see kids gradually picking up "cool" again in
>significant numbers beginning with the age group that would have
>enthusiastically watched _Happy Days_ as children.  I think when you
>look at 1970s popular culture in America and see how pervasive the cult
>of Fonzie was among children and how closely associated he was with the
>word "cool", the conclusion is inescapable that the revival of "cool"
>was begun by Fonzie and _Happy Days_.

I agree.

>  I don't know of any television character today with a similar sort
> of influence, except maybe Spongebob.

This character has escaped my searching for a few months now. I was
told of it by a nephew, and have wandered the satellite program guide
looking for it, but have yet to see a listing for it. You have piqued
my curiosity.

Larry

Usage of "Booked" not in OED No One 12/31/02 6:50 AM

"Bermuda999" <bermu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021229211320.13948.00000348@mb-cr.aol.com...
> Mary Shafer Iliff mil...@qnet.com

>
> >Don Aitken wrote:
> >
> >> The "run away" meaning is entirely new to me.
> >
> >It doesn't mean "run away", it means "leave".  I was sitting in
> >a meeting when the person holding it said, "Everyone but the
> >members of the Configuration Control Panel can book now" and I
> >booked.  I've also heard some of my co-workers sat "I'm booking"
> >as they leave for the day.
> >
> >It's not new, as I've been using it for at least a decade, and
> >probably longer.  Let's see, it wasn't new when I was the FTE
> >on AFTI/F-16, making up flight cards with a DECmate II, so that
> >would put it back to some time before about 1992.
>
> The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang:
>
> "book...
> 3. [infl. by BOOG, BOOGIE, v.] to leave.; to go fast; move along.  -- also
> constr. with 'it', 'up'."
>
> [snip of cites going back as far as 1974]
>

AHA ... we finally get to a citation for the usage.  Thank you.

Actually, this was not meant to be a formal dispatch per se.  The particular
officer had been in the radio room turning in the paperwork on recovering
her as an already missing person from the next county south of us, and we
remarked that as she was going to a known juvenile sieve facility she might
stay a whole 10 minutes.  (God forbid you should put a lock on the door -
and believe me, the juveniles know how to work the system better than many
adults.  This particular facility has 2-3 walkoffs a week, even for court
ordered, as opposed to voluntary, placements.)  She had also displayed an
impressive vocabulary of curses and observations about our various and
sundry body parts along with colorful suggestions as to what we might be
able to do with them.  Her demeanor led us to believe she would not "get
with the program" anytime soon.

So I basically was telling him that our prior conversation had come true.
Had I been formally dispatching it I would have stated "SIGNAL 144, Oasis
Center, nnnn Some St, 15 Year Old White Female, BLoND, GReeN, Last Seen
Wearing WHiTe shirt, WHiTe shorts, UNKnown Direction Of Travel.  BOLO area
for 10-12."  Signal 144 is a runaway.  BOLO is Be On the Look Out and 10-12
is a person.  So he should check the area for her before going to the center
to take yet another missing person report.  (Caps show what my notes would
have actually read ... 15 YO WF, BLND, GRN, LSW ...)

As a 50 something person, Hawaii 50 was certainly a part of my younger days
and "Book 'em, Dano" was a catch phrase.  A surprise to me in this career is
that we don't use that expression, although I have occasionally mouthed
"patch me through to McGarrett" when transferring phone calls, or speaking
to Officer Garrett.  We do use the word "Booking" a lot to mean we are
processing or transporting to the "Booking Room" for processing.  Once in
awhile we tell someone that so-and-so's bail will be set after booking is
completed and they do their first appearance.  So we do use the word
"booking" a lot, but seldom "booked".  (Probably sees a lot more use in
courtrooms, hoosegows and lawyers offices.)

"Boogied" conveys a more lighthearted approach to leaving.  "Booked" gives
leaving some urgency.

THANKS,
Bill Stewart
Cape Coral, FL

Usage of "Booked" not in OED No One 12/31/02 7:19 AM

"Ronald Raygun" <no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
news:SWMP9.6936$hL6.47591449@news-text.cableinet.net...
> No One wrote:
>
> > Specifically, we had a female juvenile in custody on a missing person
> > charge,
>
> Not answering the original question, sorry, but taking issue
> with "a missing person charge".  THIS IS TERRIBLE!  Makes it
> sound as though it's a crime to "be missing".
>
>

Actually, it is.  Adults and juveniles are treated differently, of course.
A juvenile MUST be in someone's custody, be it an actual parent, foster
parent, ward of the State, what have you.  And that holds true through 17
years and 355 days old.

Bill

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Aaron J. Dinkin 12/31/02 7:42 AM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:59:22 GMT, sa...@non.com <sa...@non.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:24:23 -0500, R Fontana
><rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>
>>  I don't know of any television character today with a similar sort
>> of influence, except maybe Spongebob.
>
> This character has escaped my searching for a few months now. I was
> told of it by a nephew, and have wandered the satellite program guide
> looking for it, but have yet to see a listing for it. You have piqued
> my curiosity.

Please unpique it, if you can. Going out of your way to avoid Spongebob
Squarepants is worth the extra effort it takes. (Although in that respect
it is still outdone by "The Fairly Oddparents".)

-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom

(who has an eleven-year-old sister)

History of 'Cool' ctd. rzed 12/31/02 8:39 AM

"R Fontana" <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.44.0212310453550.13288-100000@sparky.cs.nyu.edu...

> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, R J Valentine wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:36:30 -0500 R Fontana <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu>
wrote:
> >
> > }                                          When I was in
> > } seventh grade (1980-1981) many boys (not girls) in my grade started
> > } using "Excellent!", and I remember there being an awareness of it
> > } being sort of an ironical faddish youth thing of the day.
> >
> > When was _Wayne's World_ first on _Saturday Night Live_?
>
> Long after that.  I think _Wayne's World_ premiered around 1990,
> certainly no earlier than 1989.  ICLIUBITLOC.  Does anyone remember
> kids using "Excellent!" before 1980?  It occurs to me now that there
> was one annoying guy in my high school who continued to use
> "Excellent!" through the end of twelfth grade.
>

"Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" was released in 1988. The interjection
must have been current before that time.

> When I was in seventh grade and kids started saying "Excellent!", that
> was the first season that Eddie Murphy was on _Saturday Night Live_,
> and the first season without the Not Ready For Prime Time
> Players.  That was the season where Murphy did his Velvet Jones (_I
> Want To Be A Ho_) character, which I believe must be what first
> popularized 'ho' on a national level.  This was also the season  where
> Joe Piscopo did his "I'm from Joizy! Are you from Joizy? What exit?"
> sketch, which was also very culturally influential.
>
> Also during that season, there was a sort of imitation of SNL on ABC
> on Friday night at 11:30 called _Fridays_, a sketch comedy
> show led by Michael Richards, who resurfaced in the 1990s as
> "Kramer" on _Seinfeld_.  I watched it that year, but I don't remember
> whether it was funny.  The only other cast member I remember was
> Melanie Chartoff, but I see now that Larry David, the co-creator of
> _Seinfeld_ (and the model for the character George Costanza) was also
> in the cast.  I don't think I watched _SCTV_ until 1982 or so, during
> the time when it was the greatest comedy show in television history.
>
> Also, some of my earliest memories are of watching _The Carol Burnett
> Show_ and laughing hysterically even though I didn't understand any of
> it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Usage of "Booked" not in OED rzed 12/31/02 9:20 AM

"R Fontana" <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.44.0212310538130.13288-100000@sparky.cs.nyu.edu...

You seem to have a narrow definition of what archaic and current mean, and I
think it's only fair that you state it at some point. When you assert that
"cool" essentially disappeared from use or that "split" is archaic, you seem
to me to mean that these things are (or were) true for a certain age group.
Your claims may be valid for the slang of teenagers (however defined), but
it is not equally valid for the entire population. People do grow out of
their teen years, and some will change their speech patterns entirely, but
for many others, words as common and useful as "split" and "cool" will
remain in their active vocabulary. There is no particular reason to replace
one word that fills a function with another unless one feels the need to
appear to be current with ever-shifting slang. For some, the words have
passed beyond slang and into core vocabulary. Their meaning is understood,
and they adequately express a concept that occasionally must be expressed.

--
rzed

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Steve Hayes 12/31/02 10:12 AM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:36:30 -0500, R Fontana <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:

>On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Pan wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 08:09:30 -0500, R Fontana
>> <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >I think I've only heard it on TV and the like, never in real life.  My
>> >impression is that it's relatively archaic or obsolete slang, but then
>> >I used to say that about 'cool'.
>>
>> You really _are_ a callow youth. :-)
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> P.S. What did you say for "cool"? "Rad"?
>
>Well, you asked, so I better answer. "Rad"? No, of course not.  As far
>as I can remember, we had no reason to use any such word, for the most
>part.  I mean, it's sort of like the ridiculosity of such words was
>apparent from the get-go.  In the case of "cool", the get-go was, as a

>rule, the popular 1970s sitcom about an idealized version of the
>1950s, _Happy Days_.  Speaking of 1970s Fifties-revivalism, one thing
>that divided kids in the late '70s was the popular movie _Grease_. I
>don't know whether "cool" was used in _Grease_, but I have the
>intuition that if a kid liked _Grease_ when he or she was 11 they were
>more likely to use "cool" five or six years later.  Needless to say, I
>didn't like _Grease_, which I saw as a bad cultural development.  Hey
>C**p, did your kids like _Grease_?

I remember Grease, though I never saw it.

What scares me, though, is that its longer ago since Grease than the fifties
were from Grease.
 

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

History of 'Cool' ctd. R J Valentine 12/31/02 10:24 AM

"Of Course" was what came through to me.

--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) John Dawkins 12/31/02 11:06 AM
In article <3e11a1af....@news.sk.sympatico.ca>, sa...@non.com
wrote:

> >  I don't know of any television character today with a similar sort
> > of influence, except maybe Spongebob.
>
> This character has escaped my searching for a few months now. I was
> told of it by a nephew, and have wandered the satellite program guide
> looking for it, but have yet to see a listing for it. You have piqued
> my curiosity.

SpongeBob SquarePants appears on Nickleodeon, in an afternoon time slot
where I live in SoCal.  Our two-year-old watches him occasionally, but
prefers Thomas the Tank Engine.

--
J.

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Steve Hayes 12/31/02 11:42 AM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:50:04 +0000, Laura F Spira
<la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote:

>I am old enough to remember when "swinging" was popular in the UK (as
>opposed to "dodgy"). I also remember the puzzlement of my parents on
>receiving a postcard from me from Belgium in about 1962, describing the
>hotel I was staying in as "grotty".

I think "grotty" was popularised by "A hard day's night", which was released
in 1964.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Skitt 12/31/02 12:00 PM
Steve Hayes wrote:
> Laura F Spira wrote:

>> I am old enough to remember when "swinging" was popular in the UK (as
>> opposed to "dodgy"). I also remember the puzzlement of my parents on
>> receiving a postcard from me from Belgium in about 1962, describing
>> the hotel I was staying in as "grotty".
>
> I think "grotty" was popularised by "A hard day's night", which was
> released in 1964.

There's no such word in the lyrics of that song.
http://www.merseyworld.com/imagine/lyrics/harddaysnight.htm

MWCD10 has:

Main Entry: grot·ty
Pronunciation: 'grä-tE
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): grot·ti·er; -est
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: 1964
chiefly British : wretchedly shabby : of poor quality

The year fits, but the origin is unknown.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area)    http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
  I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
                   -- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)

History of 'Cool' ctd. R Fontana 12/31/02 12:14 PM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, R J Valentine wrote:

> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:43:48 -0500 Maria Conlon <mcon...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>
> } R Fontana wrote:
> }
> }>...ICLIUBITLOC.
> }
> } I Could Look It Up But I'm Too Lazy, Old Chum?
>
> "Of Course" was what came through to me.

You were correct, sir.  Yes.

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Bermuda999 12/31/02 12:16 PM
Skitt" sk...@attbi.com

>
>Steve Hayes wrote:
>> Laura F Spira wrote:
>
>>> I am old enough to remember when "swinging" was popular in the UK (as
>>> opposed to "dodgy"). I also remember the puzzlement of my parents on
>>> receiving a postcard from me from Belgium in about 1962, describing
>>> the hotel I was staying in as "grotty".
>>
>> I think "grotty" was popularised by "A hard day's night", which was
>> released in 1964.
>
>There's no such word in the lyrics of that song.
>http://www.merseyworld.com/imagine/lyrics/harddaysnight.htm

"A Hard Day's Night" was a song *and* an album *and* a movie. It was three
mints in one.

All were "released in 1964".

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) John Dawkins 12/31/02 1:21 PM
In article <3e11ec52....@news.saix.net>,
 haye...@yahoo.com (Steve Hayes) wrote:

> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:50:04 +0000, Laura F Spira
> <la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote:
>
> >I am old enough to remember when "swinging" was popular in the UK (as
> >opposed to "dodgy"). I also remember the puzzlement of my parents on
> >receiving a postcard from me from Belgium in about 1962, describing the
> >hotel I was staying in as "grotty".
>
> I think "grotty" was popularised by "A hard day's night", which was released
> in 1964.

According to one reporter, screenwriter Alun Owen invented the slang
"grotty" (short for grotesque) for AHDN (the movie).

--
J.

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Richard Maurer 12/31/02 2:29 PM
<< [Laura F Spira]

 I also remember the puzzlement of my parents on
receiving a postcard from me from Belgium in about 1962, describing the
hotel I was staying in as "grotty".
[end quote] >>

<< [Steve Hayes]


I think "grotty" was popularised by "A hard day's night", which was released
in 1964.
[end quote] >>

<< [Skitt]
MWCD10 has:

Main Entry: grot·ty
Pronunciation: 'grä-tE
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): grot·ti·er; -est
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: 1964
chiefly British : wretchedly shabby : of poor quality

The year fits, but the origin is unknown.
[end quote] >>

<< [James Follett]
We used to have "grotty totty" contests in the 1950s.
[end quote] >>


Since they were both slang,
I wonder if 'grody' is the surviving term here in the US.

--                       ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer              To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California       of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Skitt 12/31/02 3:11 PM

Yabbut, has "grody" really survived?  When did you last hear it?


--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area)    http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
  I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
                   -- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)

Grotty and Grody Richard Maurer 12/31/02 3:53 PM
[named subthread of History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED)]

<< [Richard Maurer]


Since they were both slang,
I wonder if 'grody' is the surviving term here in the US.
[end quote] >>

<< [Skitt]


Yabbut, has "grody" really survived?  When did you last hear it?
[end quote] >>


It seems firmly implanted, ready to pop out at any time,
should the occasion warrant.  I haven't heard it lately,
but then I haven't been in any crawl spaces lately,
nor do I remember any occasions that warrant.

--                       ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer              To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California       of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Robert Bannister 12/31/02 4:13 PM
R J Valentine wrote:

 > I can probably come up with the date that I first heard the word
 > "decade" pronounced with the accent on the second syllable.  But then
 > so can probably half the people on alt.usage.english.
 >
I must be in the other half. I can't remember when I first came across
'decade', but everyone I know and have known pronounces  with the stress
on the second syllable.


--
Rob Bannister

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Pan 12/31/02 4:17 PM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:50:04 +0000, Laura F Spira
<la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote:
[snip]

>I am old enough to remember when "swinging" was popular in the UK (as
>opposed to "dodgy"). I also remember the puzzlement of my parents on
>receiving a postcard from me from Belgium in about 1962, describing the
>hotel I was staying in as "grotty".

We use "grody" here, but "gross" is more common.

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 12/31/02 4:24 PM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 05:42:26 -0500, R Fontana
<rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Pan wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 05:00:06 GMT, haye...@yahoo.com (Steve Hayes)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >But for the post-20th Party Congress pre-Cuban Missile Crisis generation of
>> >cool users, the cool thing to say is "let's split."
>> [snip]
>>
>> I consider "to split" to be a totally normal usage.
>>
>> Michael (post-Cuban Missile Crisis)
>
>Very interesting.  To me "to split" has always been dead archaic.  I
>think I associate it mainly with the cartoon series _Scooby Doo, Where
>Are You!_.

I haven't watched that in a long time!

>  Very interesting.  I can remember one high school
>classmate of mine who sometimes used "split", but he also used other
>archaic expressions associated with past epochs.

Like "swell"? I understand but don't use that. I say "great!,"
"excellent!" and such-like.

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 12/31/02 4:27 PM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:30:54 -0500, R Fontana
<rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Pan wrote:

[snip]


>> "Awesome!" and, somewhat humorously, "totally awesome!" (especially
>> with a stylized accent and cadence) were picked up to a degree from
>> Valley Girl talk around 1977-78, too.
>
>That early?

Yep.

>  I would have thought 1981 or so.

Nope.

[snip]


>> *Full disclosure: I was in Malaysia from 1975-77, so I have no idea
>> when the changeover from "neat!" to "cool!" happened.
>
>This is greatly significant.  You were in Malaysia precisely during the
>years when _Happy Days_ was at the height of its popularity among
>kids.

I never really got into Happy Days.

> I imagine you were able to watch _Kojak_ over there, though.

You bet! Kojak, the Six Million Dollar Man, and Bionic Woman were the
big rerun shows on Malaysian TV in those days. Any bald kid (usually
one shaved for delousing) was called "Kojak."

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Robert Bannister 12/31/02 4:34 PM
No One wrote:
15 Year Old White Female, BLoND, GReeN, Last Seen
> Wearing WHiTe shirt, WHiTe shorts, UNKnown Direction Of Travel.  BOLO area
> for 10-12."  Signal 144 is a runaway.  BOLO is Be On the Look Out and 10-12
> is a person.  So he should check the area for her before going to the center
> to take yet another missing person report.  (Caps show what my notes would
> have actually read ... 15 YO WF, BLND, GRN, LSW ...)

After some thought, I decided GRN must be eye colour and not her skin or
hair. I assume too that WH, WH would refer to top and bottom clothing
respectively, but I was surprised that you would not specify shorts,
skirt, jeans, etc.


--
Rob Bannister

Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Varela 12/31/02 5:16 PM
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 21:09:32 UTC, "No One" <NoOne@NoWhere.net> wrote:

> I had chance to use the word "booked" the other day and everyone understood
> my meaning instantly,

I've never heard "booked" used to mean "leave" or "run away."

I have, however, heard the term "do a bunk" to mean that.  Perhaps this use
of "book" is a variation on "bunk".

Actually, I've never heard "do a bunk" in conversation.  I only know it from
a song, "Bella", on an LP record I bought in 1958:  "Bawdy Songs and
Backroom Ballads--Vol. III", Oscar Brand, Audio Fidelity AFLP 1824.  It
contains the lines:

        She went to his house but the dirty skunk
        Had packed his bags and had done a bunk.
        Oh!  Unhappy Bella!

The song has this wonderful final verse, a favorite of my wife's:

        As into her grave they laid her low
        The men said, "Alas! but life it is so."
        While the women were chanting sweet and low,
        "It's all the men they've done it again,
          "The bastards!
        "The mean and wicked heartless cru-el deceivers."

--
     John Varela

Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Varela 12/31/02 5:22 PM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 06:35:06 UTC, R J Valentine <r...@smart.net> wrote:

> I can probably come up with the date that I first heard the word "decade"
> pronounced with the accent on the second syllable.  But then so can
> probably half the people on alt.usage.english.


If you were within earshot and were to say it that way then I would make an
effort to remember the date.  Even "decade box" isn't pronounced that way.

--
     John Varela

Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Varela 12/31/02 5:33 PM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:20:20 UTC, "rzed" <rza...@ntelos.net> wrote:

> People do grow out of
> their teen years, and some will change their speech patterns entirely, but
> for many others, words as common and useful as "split" and "cool" will
> remain in their active vocabulary.

"Cool" seems to come and go.  I graduated from high school in 1953 and to me
cool was somewhat quaint: something a member of Glenn Miller's band would
have said.  When I was a senior in college in 1956-57 I was surprised to
hear the incoming freshmen using "cool".  They also listened to rock and
roll.

--
     John Varela

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Don Aitken 12/31/02 5:36 PM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:21:02 -0800, John Dawkins <artfl...@aol.com>
wrote:


I'm fairly sure it was used on the Beatles Christmas record, 1963,
issued free to fan club members. I believe that one of them (probably
Lennon) actually explained the drivation from "grotesque". The record
was stuffed with neologisms, but "grotty" really caught on. I suspect
that it was known in Liverpool before that.

--
Don Aitken

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) John Varela 12/31/02 5:47 PM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 04:09:03 UTC, sa...@non.com wrote:

> Nonsense. "Cool" was very common in the fifties. It ranked right up
> there with "daddyo".
 
As I just posted in another part of this thread, it was not in use by my
contemporaries, and I was high school class of 1953 and college 1957.  I
thought of "cool" as somewhat quaint musicians' slang.  When I was a college
senior the incoming freshmen were saying "cool" so it must have been in the
high schools in the mid 50s, which would fit with the "Happy Days" timeline.
 I do recall saying "Dad", but not "Daddyo."

--
     John Varela

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Mary Shafer Iliff 12/31/02 6:21 PM
Brian Wickham wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:41:06 GMT, panNO...@musician.org (Pan) wrote:

>
>
>>On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 08:09:30 -0500, R Fontana
>><rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I think I've only heard it on TV and the like, never in real life.  My
>>>impression is that it's relatively archaic or obsolete slang, but then
>>>I used to say that about 'cool'.
>>
>>You really _are_ a callow youth. :-)
>>
>>Michael
>>
>>P.S. What did you say for "cool"? "Rad"?
>
>
> This really opens a can of worms!  I'm older than RF but from the same
> general area.  To me, "cool" was out, since it was used by adult jazz
> fans only and was associated, humoruosly, with berets and chin
> whiskers.  As a kid we said "weak", 1951ish; "wicked" 1953ish; "cool",
> a rebirth in the mid 1950s; "boss" very briefly in the late 1950s; and
> then we spoke English, NYC version mostly, from that time on.  

"Bitchin'" and "boss" in the early '60s in SoCal.  "Bitchin'"
is, I've heard, still surfer slang, but I find it difficult to
believe a usage would have lasted so long.  The essence of "in"
requires frequent updates of the grouup shibboliths.

Then there were "far out" and "totally cool", but I can't come
up with any sort of date for them.

Mary

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Maria Conlon 12/31/02 6:38 PM

"Daddyo" was hot sometime in the mid-1950s or later in the Detroit area.
I don't remember where it came from. (Some movie? Song?) It was around
about the same time as "cool," though it didn't last as long. One radio
DJ used to talk about being "on the raddio, daddyo." ("Raddio" is not a
typo. I put two d's in it to indicate it rhymed with "daddyo.")

Also: I'm thinking "daddyo" was actually hyphenated -- "daddy-o."

And that's all I have to say about this.

Maria

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) sa...@non.com 12/31/02 7:07 PM
On Wed, 01 Jan 2003 01:47:43 GMT, jav...@earthlink.net (John Varela)
wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 04:09:03 UTC, sa...@non.com wrote:
>
>> Nonsense. "Cool" was very common in the fifties. It ranked right up
>> there with "daddyo".
>
>As I just posted in another part of this thread, it was not in use by my
>contemporaries, and I was high school class of 1953 and college 1957.

I was highschool class of '62, living mostly on the Wet Coast of
Canada. We used musician's slang because we thought it was, well,
cool. "See ya later, alligator." was common, but for the life of me, I
could not tell if it came from the Bill Haley song, or if the song
came from the expression. "Daddyo or daddy-o" (I never did see it
written down except by my own hand.) was quite common.

The reason I remember this time frame is that when I was in high
school (grade 9), we had to write a version of a story in our own
words. I recall little of it, except that the main character, in the
first paragraph, was standing over the grave of his father, crying.

I wrote the whole thing in slang commonly used at that time, and the
first sentence was to the effect that the character was "dropping the
salt on his old man's permanent pad."  I recall using several words
like 'cool', 'hip', 'hep-cat', 'strides', and so on.

>I thought of "cool" as somewhat quaint musicians' slang.  When I was a college
>senior the incoming freshmen were saying "cool" so it must have been in the
>high schools in the mid 50s, which would fit with the "Happy Days" timeline.
> I do recall saying "Dad", but not "Daddyo."

Larry

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) R Fontana 12/31/02 7:57 PM

This is interesting because one of the slang words that surfaced
nationally when Valley Girls became the subject of public attention
(ca. 1981) was "grody" /groUdi/.  "Grody" never really caught on much,
at least outside of California, but I think it was assumed to have
been either a variation on "gross" or an alteration of "grotesque", or
both.  So it meant something like the British "grotty"; perhaps it even
comes from British "grotty".  Astoundingly, "grody" is not in M-W.

It occurs in the lyrics of Frank Zappa's song "Valley Girl" (1982),
which, although it is satire and not an authentic example of Valley
Girl speech, was influential, and is worth studying:

   So like I go into this like salon place, you know?
   And I wanted like to get my toenails done
   And the lady like goes, oh my God, your toenails are like so grody!
   It was like really embarrassing
   ...

   Like my mother like makes me do the dishes
   It's like so gross!
   Like all the stuff like sticks to the plates
   And it's like, it's like somebody else's food, you know?
   It's like grody, grody to the max!
   I'm sure!
   It's like really nauseating!
   Like barf out!
   Gag me with a spoon!
   Gross!
   I am sure!
   Totally!

To bring this back to the thread topic, it is also interesting to note
that "Valley Girl" contains uses of slang "cool":

   But like, I don't know, it's going to be cool, you know?
   So you can see my smile
   It'll be like really cool

Remember that 1982 was also the year when I first noticed a teenager
using revived "cool".


Usage of "Booked" not in OED R Fontana 12/31/02 7:59 PM
On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, John Varela wrote:

> When I was a senior in college in 1956-57 I was surprised to
> hear the incoming freshmen using "cool".  They also listened to rock and
> roll.

Sort of ironic, as we say in America.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED sa...@non.com 12/31/02 7:59 PM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:21:00 -0800, Mary Shafer Iliff
<mil...@qnet.com> wrote:


>Then there were "far out" and "totally cool", but I can't come
>up with any sort of date for them.

Mid to late sixties for "far out", I think. No idea about "totally
cool", as I look at it as a mere variant of "cool".

Larry

Usage of "Booked" not in OED R Fontana 12/31/02 8:20 PM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, rzed wrote:

> > To me "to split" has always been dead archaic.  I
> > think I associate it mainly with the cartoon series _Scooby Doo, Where
> > Are You!_.  Very interesting.  I can remember one high school

> > classmate of mine who sometimes used "split", but he also used other
> > archaic expressions associated with past epochs.
>
> You seem to have a narrow definition of what archaic and current mean, and I
> think it's only fair that you state it at some point. When you assert that
> "cool" essentially disappeared from use or that "split" is archaic, you seem
> to me to mean that these things are (or were) true for a certain age group.
> Your claims may be valid for the slang of teenagers (however defined), but
> it is not equally valid for the entire population. People do grow out of

> their teen years, and some will change their speech patterns entirely, but
> for many others, words as common and useful as "split" and "cool" will
> remain in their active vocabulary. There is no particular reason to replace
> one word that fills a function with another unless one feels the need to
> appear to be current with ever-shifting slang. For some, the words have
> passed beyond slang and into core vocabulary. Their meaning is understood,
> and they adequately express a concept that occasionally must be expressed.

Yes, of course.  I mean, obviously "archaic" is a bit hyperbolic.  I'm
not talking about the slang of teenagers, but the slang of all young
people.  For better or worse, it seems to be mainly young people who
drive language change, particularly in the area of everyday slang
usages.  Were there Americans using "cool" in 1974?  Sure, of course.
But they were all in the older generation, all born before 1960,
probably even 1955, and I'd bet the bulk of them were older than that.
As far as the linguistic vanguard goes, they were completely
unimportant by then.

In any case, when I speak of the situation in, say, 1976 (the
culturally critical Bicentennial Year, which perhaps marks the end of
one American era and the beginning of another), I'm talking about kids
of elementary and secondary school age, people too young to vote.  In
this regard, I think that more attention is paid to college student
slang than is really warranted; college students are notorious for
being cultural laggards, or they should be.


Usage of "Booked" not in OED Bob Stahl 12/31/02 8:23 PM
Tony Cooper:
>Mark Wallace:
>> The 'run away' usage is popular in Chandler, and other
>> hard-boiled dick, crime-story stuff, but I have no idea
>> how it came about. Doc Robin will probably know; he
>> likes that genre.
> The surprise at  the word "booked" meaning "ran away"
> surprises me.  I would understand the word - in this
> context - to mean not only ran away, but ran away very
> quickly:  She booked out of here. ....

The slang usage I heard in California, c. 1960s-70s,
referred to cars -- "booking" meant driving as fast as
the route or car would allow, implying eligibility for
an imaginary performance record.

--
Bob Stahl


Usage of "Booked" not in OED No One 12/31/02 8:39 PM
Eh?  I did specify shirt and shorts respectively.  Ideally, we try to
describe people top to bottom but you take what you can get.

And from the 60's one must also recall "Right On!", which was quickly
corrupted to "Right Arm!", and "Out of Sight!", which was also corrupted to
"Out Of State!".  Of course, we did not add the now obligatory "Dude" to the
Right On.

And I still, to this day, use "Cool", but it's pronounced as a two-syllable
word, "COO-ool"

Regards,
Bill

"Robert Bannister" <rob...@it.net.au> wrote in message
news:3E12377A.1000703@it.net.au...

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) R H Draney 12/31/02 9:46 PM
R Fontana <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote in
news:Pine.GSO.4.44.0212312240150.4818-100000@sparky.cs.nyu.edu:

> On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Don Aitken wrote:
>
>> I'm fairly sure it was used on the Beatles Christmas record,
>> 1963, issued free to fan club members. I believe that one of them
>> (probably Lennon) actually explained the drivation from
>> "grotesque". The record was stuffed with neologisms, but "grotty"
>> really caught on. I suspect that it was known in Liverpool before
>> that.

Nope...complete transcription of the 1963 Christmas record at
www.geocities.com/dsmurashev.geo/songs/Christmas_Record_1963.htm, and
I'm listening to the audio of it right now to confirm that...it very
definitely *was* in the film "A Hard Day's Night", where it's George
who first uses the word (in response to a reporter's question), and
then has to explain it....

> This is interesting because one of the slang words that surfaced
> nationally when Valley Girls became the subject of public
> attention (ca. 1981) was "grody" /groUdi/.  "Grody" never really
> caught on much, at least outside of California, but I think it was
> assumed to have been either a variation on "gross" or an
> alteration of "grotesque", or both.  So it meant something like
> the British "grotty"; perhaps it even comes from British "grotty".
>  Astoundingly, "grody" is not in M-W.
>
> It occurs in the lyrics of Frank Zappa's song "Valley Girl"
> (1982), which, although it is satire and not an authentic example
> of Valley Girl speech, was influential, and is worth studying:

My first conscious memory of hearing it (with the long O) was in 1973,
from a teacher...context: he was that he would be less likely to hit
someone when dressed in a white shirt and tie than in "worn out jeans
and a grody sweatshirt"...at the time I guessed that it meant
something like "stained"....r

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Charles Riggs 12/31/02 11:58 PM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:44:03 +0100, Simon R. Hughes
<shu...@tromso.online.no> wrote:

>Thus Spake Charles Riggs:
>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 00:26:49 +0100, Simon R. Hughes
>> <shu...@tromso.online.no> wrote:
>>
>> >Thus Spake david56:

>> >> Oooohhh.  At the bottom of this page
>> >> http://www.pilotpen.co.uk/whatsnew/new1.htm.  I must have one.
>> >
>> >The 14 ct gold nib is far too soft; I would bend it in a matter of
>> >hours. I prefer sprung steel.
>>
>> I doubt you meant "bend". It might wear down quickly, but so what?
>> Just get a new one, if you can afford the first one. I suspect it'd
>> have a pleasant feel to it, when writing.
>
>My Cross has a gold nib. If I use it, and I don't much any more, I
>often need to turn the pen over and bend the nib back, so that the
>gap between the two sides is narrow enough to draw the ink down from
>the reservoir. Perhaps it has something to do with my left-
>handedness making it necessary to push the pen more than a right-
>hander would.

My comment resulted from me not considering the fact you were talking
about fountain pens, when I was assuming ballpoints. The realization
of this mistake happened around three o'clock yesterday afternoon. Can
"nib" ever refer to the business end of a ballpoint pen?

--
Charles Riggs
chriggs |at| eircom |dot| com

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Laura F Spira 1/1/03 1:41 AM
R H Draney wrote:
>
> R Fontana <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote in
> news:Pine.GSO.4.44.0212312240150.4818-100000@sparky.cs.nyu.edu:
>
> > On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Don Aitken wrote:
> >
> >> I'm fairly sure it was used on the Beatles Christmas record,
> >> 1963, issued free to fan club members. I believe that one of them
> >> (probably Lennon) actually explained the drivation from
> >> "grotesque". The record was stuffed with neologisms, but "grotty"
> >> really caught on. I suspect that it was known in Liverpool before
> >> that.
>
> Nope...complete transcription of the 1963 Christmas record at
> www.geocities.com/dsmurashev.geo/songs/Christmas_Record_1963.htm, and
> I'm listening to the audio of it right now to confirm that...it very
> definitely *was* in the film "A Hard Day's Night", where it's George
> who first uses the word (in response to a reporter's question), and
> then has to explain it....

By the time AHDN was released, grotty was in common use among my
contemporaries. I first heard it in July 1962, used by London teenagers,
on holiday in Blankenberg. They were a very sophisticated bunch, at the
cutting edge of what then passed for teen fashion.

By my reckoning, this pre-dates the popularity of the Beatles, as I
think "Love Me Do" was released after we'd gone back to school in
September that year.

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Laura F Spira 1/1/03 2:01 AM

The film of "West Side Story" was on TV yesterday afternoon. I'd
forgotten how good it was. Much use of "cool" and "daddy-o" there. I
think it was first staged in about 1957 so general usage of "daddy-o"
would probably have been a little earlier.


--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Simon R. Hughes 1/1/03 4:50 AM
Thus Spake Charles Riggs:

> Can
> "nib" ever refer to the business end of a ballpoint pen?

Yes.
--
Simon R. Hughes
<!--  -->

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Wood Avens 1/1/03 7:26 AM
On Wed, 01 Jan 2003 00:17:57 GMT, panNO...@musician.org (Pan) wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:50:04 +0000, Laura F Spira
><la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote:
>[snip]

>>I also remember the puzzlement of my parents on


>>receiving a postcard from me from Belgium in about 1962, describing the
>>hotel I was staying in as "grotty".
>
>We use "grody" here, but "gross" is more common.

Are you saying that 'grody' and 'gross' carry the same connotation?  I
ask because this isn't true of 'grotty' and 'gross', at least not
around here.  'Grotty' suggests some or all of tatty, falling-to-bits,
badly made, dirty, worn-out, etc.  'Gross' implies a much more active
reaction of disgust, like "Yuk!" or "Eeugh!", but it's frequently
applied to something that isn't actually either grotty or
conventionally disgusting at all, such as, oh, someone's perfectly
well-made, clean, but totally unfashionable shoes.


--

Katy Jennison

spamtrap: remove number to reply

History of 'Cool' ctd. R Fontana 1/1/03 10:53 AM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Charles Riggs wrote:

> The word [cool] originated with American jazz musicians
> to distinguish cool jazz from hot jazz.
>
> Cool jazz must have seen to be
> the superior of the two, since cool soon took on its positive sense.

Hmm... this isn't completely incorrect and contains an important
point, but you're conflating a few different things here.  The
complication is that while "hot" and "cool" have both been used in
jazz with particular musical meaning that can apply to different time
periods of jazz history, or different historical styles, "hot jazz"
and "cool jazz" also specifically refer to actual historical styles
which basically had nothing to do with each other.

I don't know how far back musical "hot" goes but
it would seem to be older than musical "cool", and yet because musical
"hot" and "cool" are, as you suggest, opposites, we can suppose that if
"cool" is younger than "hot" it isn't that much younger.  Basically,
"hot" in jazz connotes energetic, emotional, and expressive
performance; avoidance of refinedness and 'sweetness'; use of angular
melodies; great emphasis on syncopation and beat, and perhaps more
emphasis on improvisation than arrangement. I don't have the OED
handy, but I know that musical "hot" was used in jazz at least as far
back as the 1920s, because Louis Armstrong's group was called the Hot
Five, and one of their tunes was "Hotter Than That".  I think the "hot"
here was in part an emphasis on their closeness to authentic New
Orleans tradition, in contrast to the pop music of the day which was
already starting to get influenced by jazz. In any case, today "hot
jazz" as a style is a synonym for  traditional/classic/Dixieland jazz.

"Cool" in jazz connotes understatement, lack of emotional playing, less
harshness and angularity in sound.  I don't know how far back "cool"
was being used in jazz, but "cool jazz" refers specifically to a style
of jazz that existed in the early 1950s.  In the early 1940s a small
clique of young musicians, led by Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie,
developed a revolutionary new kind of jazz which came to be known as
'bebop'.  Bebop was a reaction against the harmonic simplicity,
de-emphasis on improvisation and virtuoso playing, and commercialism
that had come to characterize swing, which was the dominant form of
jazz from the mid-1930s on.  Some of the characteristics of bebop were
consistent with 'hot' values, though swing wasn't particularly 'cool'.
With the bebop revolution, jazz for the first time became an art music
rather than a mere form of entertainment.

Bebop was successful, though the long-term price was the loss of a
popular jazz audience.  Swing gradually died out after the war, while
bebop became the basis for all the subsequent developments in 'modern'
jazz.  By the end of the 1940s bebop musicians were ready to take the
music into new directions.  The first was "cool jazz".  The musicians
who played the most significant role in developing this style were
Miles Davis, Lennie Tristano and Stan Getz.  A famous recording led by
Miles Davis and using some new arrangements by Gil Evans and Gerry
Mulligan was reissued a decade later as _The Birth of the Cool_, but
this was a title bestowed retrospectively.  "Cool jazz" was
characterized by understatement, emotional restraint, and experiments
with new timbres and arranging styles.  Because of Getz, it was
especially associated with a particular style of playing the
tenor saxophone with a light, restrained sound using little vibrato,
inspired by the earlier work of Lester (Prez) Young, who in turn was
influenced by the trumpet player Bix Beiderbecke.  The other school of
tenor saxophone playing had been led by Coleman (Bean) Hawkins.

Cool jazz was not really distinguishable from another 1950s jazz style
called "West Coast jazz".  Many musicians based in New York (where
bebop had been developed) reacted to cool jazz by taking bebop in the
opposite direction, in a style that's been called "hard bop".  This
featured a return to "hot" values:  a more emotional, expressive style
of playing, use of simple arrangements and greater emphasis on
improvisation, and was a more direct continuation of bebop.  I don't
think these stylistic categories were especially meaningful, except
maybe for a few years.  The main thing is that the musicians
associated with 'hard bop' came to be regarded as the jazz avant
garde, so that in retrospect cool jazz seems like a somewhat
peripheral development.

There was an element of race in all of this that can't be ignored but
can also be overemphasized.  The earliest pioneering bebop musicians
were black.  Jazz had originated with black musicians in New Orleans,
though white musicians got involved early on.  Many of the efforts to
steer jazz closer to the pop music mainstream were led by white people.
The success of the swing big bands was largely due to the popularity of
all-white bands with all-white audiences, though one of the greatest
big bands, that of Benny Goodman, took the brave step of being racially
integrated.  The first jazz musician to feature a "cool" sound had been
Bix Beiderbecke, who was the most influential white jazz musician of
the pre-swing era.  On the other hand, Lester Young was black, as was
Miles Davis.  While the earliest beboppers were black, talented white
musicians soon joined them.  But it's pretty obvious that the cool and
West Coast jazz developments were led by white bebop musicians, and the
'hard bop' reaction (which Miles Davis joined) was led by black
musicians.  This may have had more to do with personal
musical-stylistic preferences, not unrelated to how close or distant
the musicians were from black musical traditions.

So, anyway, to make a long story short, it can't be said that "cool
jazz" was seen as superior (to the extent that that's meaningful) since
by the late '50s the leading forces in jazz were those who had come out
of the 'hard bop' school rather than the 'cool' school.  In other
words, it was clear that by the second half of the 1950s "cool jazz"
was not what was 'cool', and the West Coast (or "the Coast", as
I think it used to be called) failed to become the
leading source of important new developments in jazz.  On the
other hand, we've been talking about the use of "cool", a word which
originated among black speakers, in mainstream AmE usage, which means
mainly white usage.  So maybe there is some relevance to the
association between "cool jazz" and white jazz musicians.

But actually, I'm not sure that any of this is *too* relevant, because
while the jazz use of "cool" must have come out of a more general use
of "cool" that suggested 'admirable nonchalance' or something like
that (or maybe vice versa, which I guess is what you were suggesting),
I think it came to be a separate thing, so that probably a musician in
1952 could have said "Cool jazz isn't cool, baby, dig?".


Usage of "Booked" not in OED Skitt 1/1/03 11:14 AM
No One wrote:
 
> And from the 60's one must also recall "Right On!", which was quickly
> corrupted to "Right Arm!", and "Out of Sight!", which was also
> corrupted to "Out Of State!".  Of course, we did not add the now
> obligatory "Dude" to the Right On.
>
> And I still, to this day, use "Cool", but it's pronounced as a
> two-syllable word, "COO-ool"

Farm out!
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area)    http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
  I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
                   -- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)

History of 'Cool' ctd. Skitt 1/1/03 11:39 AM
R Fontana wrote:

[an exquisite recap of the jazz scene of the fifties, etc.]

Thanks for the memories ...

Cool!


--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area)    http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
  I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
                   -- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Pan 1/1/03 12:15 PM
On Wed, 01 Jan 2003 15:26:01 +0000, Wood Avens
<woodav...@gmx.co.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 01 Jan 2003 00:17:57 GMT, panNO...@musician.org (Pan) wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:50:04 +0000, Laura F Spira
>><la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote:
>>[snip]
>
>>>I also remember the puzzlement of my parents on
>>>receiving a postcard from me from Belgium in about 1962, describing the
>>>hotel I was staying in as "grotty".
>>
>>We use "grody" here, but "gross" is more common.
>
>Are you saying that 'grody' and 'gross' carry the same connotation?
[snip]

I've always understood them to be synonyms.

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 1/1/03 12:24 PM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:21:00 -0800, Mary Shafer Iliff
<mil...@qnet.com> wrote:

[snip]


>Then there were "far out" and "totally cool", but I can't come
>up with any sort of date for them.

My brother and his friends used "far out" when he was in junior high
school, which he graduated from in 1972.

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED R Fontana 1/1/03 1:38 PM

Interesting.  My sister graduated from high school in 1978, and I'm
dead sure she and her friends never used "far out", which I think I've
always known as an outdated '60s expression.  So we can conclude that
(in New York, at least) "far out" died out around 1972.  :-)


Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 1/1/03 3:02 PM
On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:38:11 -0500, R Fontana <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu>
wrote:

>On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Pan wrote:

My classmates and I still used it humorously for a couple of years
after that, at least.

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Robert Bannister 1/1/03 3:26 PM
John Varela wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 06:35:06 UTC, R J Valentine <r...@smart.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I can probably come up with the date that I first heard the word "decade"
>>pronounced with the accent on the second syllable.  But then so can
>>probably half the people on alt.usage.english.
>
>
>
> If you were within earshot and were to say it that way then I would make an
> effort to remember the date.  Even "decade box" isn't pronounced that way.
>

Uh, what's a decade box?

--
Rob Bannister

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) John Dean 1/1/03 3:27 PM

LMD was released October 62. The first LP, as we all know, was 1963.
I can remember 'grotty' from school and I'm sure it was before the Beatles
came on the national scene. Partridge cites a D.B. Gardner who says it was
in use at New College Oxford in the late 50s.
I personally doubt that any of the Beatles invented it but, as Partridge
acknowledges, they certainly popularised it.

An interesting view is at http://www.uta.fi/FAST/BIE/BI2/beatles.html

'' The lines in the script are all naturally very British, with words like
lad (meaning a young man), potty (meaning slightly mad) and posh (meaning
sophisticated), to name but a few. And when exploring on the mere word-level
of the film, one particular word mustn't be forgotten - the word grotty.
This word actually came into public use from the film, just like the word
fab came into general usage with the Beatles, who were constantly being
referred to as the Fab Four (fab = short for fabulous) (The Beatles,
Making).

The word grotty is a short form of the word grotesque, and many people still
believe that Alun Owen actually invented the word, but he denies this and
claims that "Liverpool invented the word". According to Owen, there was some
famous character in Liverpool called "Grotty G.", who was called that
because she seemed grotesque to other people. And since "everything gets
abbreviated in Liverpool", as Owen put it, the word grotesque simply turned
into the word grotty (The Beatles, Making).

But none of the Beatles had ever heard of the word, and later John Lennon
recalled it thus: "We thought the word was really weird and George curled up
with embarrassment every time he had to say it" (Barrow, p. 8). ''
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Robert Bannister 1/1/03 3:33 PM
> "Robert Bannister" <rob...@it.net.au> wrote in message
> news:3E12377A.1000703@it.net.au...
>
>>No One wrote:
>>15 Year Old White Female, BLoND, GReeN, Last Seen
>>
>>>Wearing WHiTe shirt, WHiTe shorts, UNKnown Direction Of Travel.  BOLO
>>
> area
>
>>>for 10-12."  Signal 144 is a runaway.  BOLO is Be On the Look Out and
>>
> 10-12
>
>>>is a person.  So he should check the area for her before going to the
>>
> center
>
>>>to take yet another missing person report.  (Caps show what my notes
>>
> would
>
>>>have actually read ... 15 YO WF, BLND, GRN, LSW ...)
>>
>>After some thought, I decided GRN must be eye colour and not her skin or
>>hair. I assume too that WH, WH would refer to top and bottom clothing
>>respectively, but I was surprised that you would not specify shorts,
>>skirt, jeans, etc.

No One wrote:
 > Eh?  I did specify shirt and shorts respectively.  Ideally, we try to
 > describe people top to bottom but you take what you can get.

The way you described it, it seemed as if the only items in your report
were the bits in capital letters.
I therefore assumed your sentence:


"15 Year Old White Female, BLoND, GReeN, Last Seen
Wearing WHiTe shirt, WHiTe shorts, UNKnown Direction Of Travel."
would be sent as "15 Y O W F, BL, GR, L S W WH, WH, UNK".
Actually, I wasn't sure about the "year old white female" or the "last
seen wearing", but the implication was that "shirt" and "shorts"
wouldn't have appeared.

--
Rob Bannister

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Skitt 1/1/03 4:08 PM
Robert Bannister wrote:
> John Varela wrote:

>> R J Valentine wrote:
 
>>> I can probably come up with the date that I first heard the word
>>> "decade" pronounced with the accent on the second syllable.  But
>>> then so can probably half the people on alt.usage.english.
>>
>> If you were within earshot and were to say it that way then I would
>> make an effort to remember the date.  Even "decade box" isn't
>> pronounced that way.  
>
> Uh, what's a decade box?

Here's some: http://www.italtec.it/gif/sp-decad.jpg


--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area)    http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
  I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
                   -- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Robert Bannister 1/1/03 4:19 PM
Skitt wrote:
> Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>>John Varela wrote:
>>
>>>R J Valentine wrote:
>>
>  
>
>>>>I can probably come up with the date that I first heard the word
>>>>"decade" pronounced with the accent on the second syllable.  But
>>>>then so can probably half the people on alt.usage.english.
>>>
>>>If you were within earshot and were to say it that way then I would
>>>make an effort to remember the date.  Even "decade box" isn't
>>>pronounced that way.  
>>
>>Uh, what's a decade box?
>
>
> Here's some: http://www.italtec.it/gif/sp-decad.jpg

They look very nice. I would have no idea what they're for, nor have I
heard the name. I can, however, see that, when nouns are used as a kind
of adjective, that the stress may often change or at least be modified.

--
Rob Bannister

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Charles Riggs 1/1/03 5:21 PM

Such boxes contain an array of resistors arranged so that, by use of
the switches on the front of the box, the resistance between the
terminals can range from the highest value the box was designed for
down to the lowest, in increments of, typically, ten ohms, although
you can find far higher precision decade boxes. They can be extremely
useful to a circuit designer or to an electronics experimenter.

--
Charles Riggs
chriggs |at| eircom |dot| com

History of 'Cool' ctd. Maria Conlon 1/1/03 5:34 PM
R Fontana wrote:

[A "keeper" regarding jazz]

Thanks very much, Richard. That was a very interesting and well-done
report. My knowledge of jazz just increased ten- or twenty-fold.

Maria

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Brian Wickham 1/1/03 5:54 PM
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:38:01 -0500, "Maria Conlon"
<mcon...@sprynet.com> wrote:

>John Varela wrote:
>> sa...@non.com wrote:
>>
>>> Nonsense. "Cool" was very common in the fifties. It ranked right up
>>> there with "daddyo".
>>
>> As I just posted in another part of this thread, it was not in use by
>> my contemporaries, and I was high school class of 1953 and college
>> 1957.  I thought of "cool" as somewhat quaint musicians' slang.  When
>> I was a college senior the incoming freshmen were saying "cool" so it
>> must have been in the high schools in the mid 50s, which would fit
>>  with the "Happy Days" timeline. I do recall saying "Dad", but not
>> "Daddyo."
>
>"Daddyo" was hot sometime in the mid-1950s or later in the Detroit area.
>I don't remember where it came from. (Some movie? Song?) It was around
>about the same time as "cool," though it didn't last as long. One radio
>DJ used to talk about being "on the raddio, daddyo." ("Raddio" is not a
>typo. I put two d's in it to indicate it rhymed with "daddyo.")
>
>Also: I'm thinking "daddyo" was actually hyphenated -- "daddy-o."
>
Black Slacks
Joe Bennett & The Sparkletones (1957)

When I go places
I just don't care
You'd know why if you'd see what I wear
Black slacks pegged fourteen
Black slacks, really are keen
Black slacks make a cool daddy-o
When I put them on I'm a-rarin' to go

Also, Jocko Henderson (The Ace from Outer Space!), a disk jockey in
Philly and NYC in the 1950s used to do patter between records (and has
been called the first rapper).  One of his signature raps was
"Hey mommy-o. Hey daddy-o.
This is your Engineer, Jocko.
Makin' the scene with the record machine,
Correct time now eleven seventeen."

I might add that "Black Slacks" was popular in NYC but no one took the
words seriously.  The use of "cool" and "daddy-o" was hopelessly out
of fashion and suited only for pop lyrics or TV dialogue.  Jocko could
get away with it because he used "daddy-o" to just get a rhyme for his
name.

I seem to remember that in the movie "Blackboard Jungle" (1955) one of
the students, probably Vic Morrow, calls Glenn Ford, "Daddy-o".

Brian Wickham

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Pat Durkin 1/1/03 6:39 PM

"Brian Wickham" <bwic...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3e1392e3.21368265@news-server.nyc.rr.com...

Glad you brought that up.  I can recall feeling a bit embarrassed at the
mention of the term in the movie.  I had read the novel, and didn't recall
seeing it there.  I had heard of the word earlier, of course, but somehow it
seemed stilted and self-conscious in the film.

As we discuss this word (as well as "cool") I can recall my late years of
H.S. (grad. 1954) and early years of college.  The real rage was adolescent
rebellion. I see that "Rebel Without a Cause" was released in '55 as well,
and "The Wild One" in 1953.

One of the most popular songs was "Black Denim Trousers", and the hairstyle
for guys was the DA.  Engineer's boots with chains, and leather jackets with
zippers were popular.  Only a few years later, there was a struggle to keep
bluejeans out of the schools because of the damage to the desk seats caused
by the rivets.  The worry about rebellion brought on numerous other dress
codes in the early '60s, prohibiting DAs and zippers on the jackets
(especially the ones with leather tags or fobs).

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) sand 1/1/03 7:25 PM
On Wed, 01 Jan 2003 15:26:01 +0000, Wood Avens
<woodav...@gmx.co.uk> wrote:

Perhaps it is vaguely related to the WWII term cruddy which meant
filthy or inferior.

Jan Sand

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Skitt 1/1/03 7:42 PM
sand wrote:
> Wood Avens wrote:
>> (Pan) wrote:  
>>> Laura F Spira wrote:

>>> [snip]
>>>> I also remember the puzzlement of my parents on
>>>> receiving a postcard from me from Belgium in about 1962,
>>>> describing the hotel I was staying in as "grotty".
>>>
>>> We use "grody" here, but "gross" is more common.
>>
>> Are you saying that 'grody' and 'gross' carry the same connotation?
>> I ask because this isn't true of 'grotty' and 'gross', at least not
>> around here.  'Grotty' suggests some or all of tatty,
>> falling-to-bits, badly made, dirty, worn-out, etc.  'Gross' implies
>> a much more active reaction of disgust, like "Yuk!" or "Eeugh!", but
>> it's frequently applied to something that isn't actually either
>> grotty or conventionally disgusting at all, such as, oh, someone's
>> perfectly well-made, clean, but totally unfashionable shoes.
>
> Perhaps it is vaguely related to the WWII term cruddy which meant
> filthy or inferior.

"Cruddy" has been around since the 14th century, per MWCD10.


--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area)    http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
  I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
                   -- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)

History of 'Cool' ctd. sand 1/1/03 7:42 PM
On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:53:40 -0500, R Fontana <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu>
wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Charles Riggs wrote:


>
>> The word [cool] originated with American jazz musicians
>> to distinguish cool jazz from hot jazz.

>But actually, I'm not sure that any of this is *too* relevant, because


>while the jazz use of "cool" must have come out of a more general use
>of "cool" that suggested 'admirable nonchalance' or something like
>that (or maybe vice versa, which I guess is what you were suggesting),
>I think it came to be a separate thing, so that probably a musician in
>1952 could have said "Cool jazz isn't cool, baby, dig?".
>
Thanks. This is more or less in line with my conjecture that "cool"
indicated a classical formality with intellecual control.

Jan Sand

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Steve Hayes 1/1/03 7:45 PM
On Wed, 01 Jan 2003 09:41:14 +0000, Laura F Spira
<la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote:

>By the time AHDN was released, grotty was in common use among my
>contemporaries. I first heard it in July 1962, used by London teenagers,
>on holiday in Blankenberg. They were a very sophisticated bunch, at the
>cutting edge of what then passed for teen fashion.
>
>By my reckoning, this pre-dates the popularity of the Beatles, as I
>think "Love Me Do" was released after we'd gone back to school in
>September that year.

The film shows it already being in common use among the younger generation.
But its use in the film popularised it so that it was much more widely used.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Bermuda999 1/1/03 8:31 PM
sand jan_...@hotmail.com

Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang:

"cruddy adj.1 filthy [The 1877 quot., by far the earliest available, sugg. this
sense arose in Hiberno-E dial.; it is not of Celtic orig. Cf. CRUD]"
(cites back to 1877 snipped)

"gross adj....
2.Stu. disgusting; sickening; (hence) unpleasant; unfortunate; displeasing..."
(cites for this specific maning back to 1959 snipped)

"grotty adj. [alter. of GROTESQUE] ugly, dirty or offensive; displeasing;
disgusting."
(cites back to 1964 in OEDS snipped, but 1970 cite of "Partridge DSUE (ed. 7)
1178: Grotty...(Very) inferior; bad...Popularized by the Beatles and, by 1962,
fairly common among teenagers."

"grody adj. [prob. alter. of GROTTY or GROTESQUE] Stu.  offensive, dirty or
disgusting"
(cites back to 1965 snipped)

also,

"grody n. Hosp.  a filthy patient, esp. in an emergency room"
(cite of hospital personnel referring to lice-infested street people as
"grodies")  

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Bermuda999 1/1/03 8:35 PM
"Skitt" sk...@attbi.com

>sand wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps it is vaguely related to the WWII term cruddy which meant
>> filthy or inferior.
>
>"Cruddy" has been around since the 14th century, per MWCD10.

Are you sure that wasn't the main entry for "crud" cited back to the 14th
century?


History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Skitt 1/1/03 8:48 PM
Bermuda999 wrote:
> "Skitt" wrote:
>> sand wrote:

Probably, but do you think that the adjectival form would not be thought of
for many hundreds of years after that?  Could be, but I doubt it.


--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area)    http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
  I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
                   -- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Bermuda999 1/1/03 9:00 PM
"Skitt" sk...@attbi.com

>Bermuda999 wrote:
>> "Skitt" wrote:
>>> sand wrote:
>
>>>> Perhaps it is vaguely related to the WWII term cruddy which meant
>>>> filthy or inferior.
>>>
>>> "Cruddy" has been around since the 14th century, per MWCD10.
>>
>> Are you sure that wasn't the main entry for "crud" cited back to the
>> 14th century?
>
>Probably, but do you think that the adjectival form would not be thought of
>for many hundreds of years after that?  Could be, but I doubt it.

The main MW online entry for "crud" is
"Etymology: Middle English curd, crudd
Date: 14th century
1 : dialect : CURD"

The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang:

"cruddy adj.1 filthy [The 1877 quot., by far the earliest available, sugg. this
sense arose in Hiberno-E dial.; it is not of Celtic orig. Cf. CRUD]"
(one citation from 1877, all others from post-WWII)

RHHDOAS goes on, under the entry for "crud", to state:
"...modern American usage of 'crud' appears to be a back-formation from
CRUDDY..."

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Skitt 1/1/03 9:18 PM
Bermuda999 wrote:

Interesting.  In any case, the word does appear to precede WWII, no matter
what.  I am still a bit confused about the MWCD10 date -- what was there in
the 14th century?  The word "crud", used in some dialects to mean "curd"?
The word "curd" is dated at the 15th century!


--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area)    http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
  I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
                   -- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Steve Hayes 1/1/03 10:00 PM
On Wed, 01 Jan 2003 23:02:42 GMT, panNO...@musician.org (Pan) wrote:

>My classmates and I still used it humorously for a couple of years
>after that, at least.

Cool was the opposite of square.

If you were square, you weren't with it.

Those were the language of a subculture in the 1950s, became general in the
1960s, and gradually disappeared in the 1970s, and only cool persisted.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

History of 'Cool' ctd. Steve Hayes 1/1/03 10:00 PM
On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:34:37 -0500, "Maria Conlon" <mcon...@sprynet.com>
wrote:

>R Fontana wrote:

Hear! Hear! (Or as alot of peeps say nowadays, "Here here").


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 1/1/03 11:36 PM
On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 06:00:20 GMT, haye...@yahoo.com (Steve Hayes)
wrote:

>On Wed, 01 Jan 2003 23:02:42 GMT, panNO...@musician.org (Pan) wrote:
>
>>My classmates and I still used it humorously for a couple of years
>>after that, at least.
>
>Cool was the opposite of square.
>
>If you were square, you weren't with it.
>
>Those were the language of a subculture in the 1950s, became general in the
>1960s, and gradually disappeared in the 1970s, and only cool persisted.

Nope. "Square" was used from 7th grade (1977-78) straight through high
school and even college, which would take it up to 1987. But you could
also be "uncool" and "a weirdo."

Different areas, different current vocabulary.

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Matti Lamprhey 1/2/03 2:15 AM
"Steve Hayes" <haye...@yahoo.com> wrote...

>
> Cool was the opposite of square.
>
> If you were square, you weren't with it.
>
> Those were the language of a subculture in the 1950s, became general in
> the 1960s, and gradually disappeared in the 1970s, and only cool
> persisted.

In Britain in the 1960s the opposite of "square" was "hip", not "cool".
Cool and square exhibit a marked degree of orthogonality.

Matti


History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) david56 1/2/03 2:47 AM
James Follett wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
> In article <20030101233148.01983.00000187@mb-mn.aol.com>, Bermuda999
> <bermu...@aol.com> writes

>
>>"grotty adj. [alter. of GROTESQUE] ugly, dirty or offensive; displeasing;
>>disgusting."
>>(cites back to 1964 in OEDS snipped, but 1970 cite of "Partridge DSUE (ed. 7)
>>1178: Grotty...(Very) inferior; bad...Popularized by the Beatles and, by 1962,
>>fairly common among teenagers."
>
> This is definitely wrong. Grotty was in common use in the UK in the mid-
> 1950s. The lads in a youth club I belonged to used to hold an informal
> "Grotty Totty" contest to see who take the ugliest girl in the village
> to the Saturday night dances.

Does this imply that there were also formal Grotty Totty contests,
organised perhaps by the kindly but out-of-touch Vicar?  Or perhaps by
the ugly girls themselves, in order to be sure of a date.

> One particular lard ball was always in
> great demand. Christ -- was she ugly. Her face looked like a cross roads
> pile-up. The theory that she had four breasts, one above the other, was
> supported (sic) by the odd-looking lumps under her jumper. On the plus
> side, she could power snog like a nympho on death row.

Is that a capital offence now?

> Er... So I was told.

--
David
-
When I snuff it bury me quick, then let carousels begin.
=====
The address is valid today, but I will change it to keep ahead of the
spammers.

History of 'Cool' ctd. mickwick 1/2/03 7:00 AM
In alt.usage.english, Steve Hayes <haye...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:34:37 -0500, "Maria Conlon" <mcon...@sprynet.com>
>>R Fontana wrote:

>>[A "keeper" regarding jazz]
>>
>>Thanks very much, Richard. That was a very interesting and well-done
>>report. My knowledge of jazz just increased ten- or twenty-fold.
>
>Hear! Hear! (Or as alot of peeps say nowadays, "Here here").

Here here, too.

I don't really know from jazz either but perhaps Tootsie will welcome
the following attempt at increasing her jazz knowledge twenty-one-fold:

"Swing" was the French "cool" for a while, and shared similar roots. In
Paris in the early 1940s, "Jazz became the symbol of, or the last tie
with, the outside free world. The French seized upon hot music as upon a
floating straw in a sea of doom." [1946 article in _Down Beat_, an
American jazz magazine.[1]] Occupied Paris went so jazz-loopy that the
Nazis, who triply despised jazz as an invention of Negroes and Americans
and (who else?) Jews[2], were unable to suppress it. They were forced to
go along with the pretence that hot jazz was an indigenous French style
invented by one Jean Sablon (Louis Armstrong), the writer of such
popular French standards as _Agate Rhythm_ and _Tristesses De St Louis_.

But the Nazis drew the line at swing. Swing was irredeemably base,
decadent, Negroid, Jewish and American. It was banned by proclamation.

The jazz-loving youth of Paris responded to the ban by adopting the word
"swing" as a universal term of approbation. In 1942, a mystified
Parisian journalist wrote that "La terrasse est 'swing', le bar est
'swing', le restaurant est 'swing'. L'argent 'swing' [can't re-translate
the next bit:] pours out of all these gentlemen's little pockets."

The little pockets were probably attached to a lumber jacket (a thick
woollen cardigan of the sort later made fashionable in England by the
trendsetters Val Doonican and Ena Sharples), which adolescent males then
thought the height of swing, indeed so swing that "they show an
unwillingness to take [it] off even when it's soaking wet"[3]. For
adolescent females, turtle-necked sweaters, bangs, short skirts, cheap
fur coats and furled umbrellas ("obstinately folded whatever the
weather") were swing.

And tout le monde in Paris though that hot jazz was swing[4]. A musician
in 1940s Paris wouldn't have skipped a beat on being told that "Le hot
jazz est swing, bébé, creusez?"[5]

[1]: Popular music journalism seems to have been as clunky then as it is
now.

[2]: "The Hebrew uses jazz and like methods to iron out racial
differences and produce a general neurasthenia in which Hebrew
influences may ascend among peoples." - attributed to an un-named Nazi
by _History Today_, from which the above has been extracted.

[3]: Wayne and Garth used to shout "schwing!" on seeing a babelicious
babe. Also they wore lumberjack shirts, which aren't all that different
from lumber jackets really. Carefully researched youth-culture hommage
or unconscious Jungian leakage?

[4]: Even the German occupiers, which is why Django Reinhardt, France's
leading hot jazz practitioner, didn't swing for being a gypsy. (His
record label at that time was Swing Disques, by the way.)

[5]: "Hot" had been a French word for at least a decade: Le Hot Club de
Paris was founded in 1932.

--
Mickwick

who as an adolescent thought that Django, Stephane Grapelli and, oddly, Robert
Gordon were the swingiest of the swing.

History of 'Cool' ctd. Laura F Spira 1/2/03 7:34 AM

[..]

I am too young to contribute authoritatively to this discussion of music
but I think that the feature of a lumber jacket that distinguished it
from a cardigan was fastening (buttons or zip) that extended right up to
the neck. From memory, I would assert that Doonican and Sharples were
cardigan wearers.

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

History of 'Cool' ctd. mickwick 1/2/03 9:44 AM
In alt.usage.english, Laura F Spira <la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote:
>mickwick wrote:

>> The little pockets were probably attached to a lumber jacket (a thick
>> woollen cardigan of the sort later made fashionable in England by the
>> trendsetters Val Doonican and Ena Sharples), which adolescent males then
>> thought the height of swing, indeed so swing that "they show an
>> unwillingness to take [it] off even when it's soaking wet"[3]. For
>> adolescent females, turtle-necked sweaters, bangs, short skirts, cheap
>> fur coats and furled umbrellas ("obstinately folded whatever the
>> weather") were swing.
>
>I am too young to contribute authoritatively to this discussion of music
>but I think that the feature of a lumber jacket that distinguished it
>from a cardigan was fastening (buttons or zip) that extended right up to
>the neck. From memory, I would assert that Doonican and Sharples were
>cardigan wearers.

I'm old enough to find pleasure in correction*. I confess that my
knowledge of lumber jackets is (was) limited to a quick Google this
afternoon. The Googled pictures were too ghastly to warrant more than
the most cursory examination. They smacked of valdoonicanism and that
was enough.

Are you sure about Sharples being a cardigan-wearer, by the way? I may
have been thinking of someone else. (Nora Batty?) Now, I can only
picture Sharples wearing a greasy brown long-sleeved dress (plus hairnet
and knuckleduster, of course).


*: It was altogether too kind of you not to point out that my second
quoted sentence would have been less confusing had it begun, "To
adolescent females turtle-necked sweaters, bangs, ..."

--
Mickwick

Progress was all right. Only it went on too long.
              -- James Thurber

History of 'Cool' ctd. Laura F Spira 1/2/03 10:01 AM

I'm not at all sure since my memory is very unreliable these days but Mr
Dean is a long-term Corrie fan so he may be able to tell you if he
chances upon this discussion. Nora Batty was chiefly notable for her
wrinkled stockings IIRC.


>  
> *: It was altogether too kind of you not to point out that my second
> quoted sentence would have been less confusing had it begun, "To
> adolescent females turtle-necked sweaters, bangs, ..."

Since I was pleased to see that you had returned after an absence, I did
not wish to scare you away again with excessive picking of nits: the
fashion error seemed more egregious.

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

History of 'Cool' ctd. John Dean 1/2/03 10:55 AM
Laura F Spira wrote:

> mickwick wrote:
>>
>>
>> Are you sure about Sharples being a cardigan-wearer, by the way? I
>> may have been thinking of someone else. (Nora Batty?) Now, I can only
>> picture Sharples wearing a greasy brown long-sleeved dress (plus
>> hairnet and knuckleduster, of course).
>
> I'm not at all sure since my memory is very unreliable these days but
> Mr Dean is a long-term Corrie fan so he may be able to tell you if he
> chances upon this discussion. Nora Batty was chiefly notable for her
> wrinkled stockings IIRC.
>>

This is the archetypal Ena

http://www.movietshirt.com/images/television/enasharplesl.jpg

It was rare to see what was under her coat (and many of us closed our eyes
if a button came undone).  My guess would be that she wore a cardigan
(traditional) on top of her frock but under her overall / pinny.

Val Doonican was definitely the cardigan-sweater.
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply


History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) Bermuda999 1/2/03 1:23 PM
"Skitt" sk...@attbi.com

If I understand the crossplay between MW and RH correctly, it appears the
timeline was close to this:

Old English: cr'udan
Middle English: crud
Modern English: curd (with some dialects apparently still using "crud" in this
sense)

Then the independent appearance of "cruddy".

Then the back-formation of "crud" in its new sense.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Steve Hayes 1/2/03 5:58 PM

But a hipster was a cool cat, and a square certainly wasn't.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Usage of "Booked" not in OED GrapeApe 1/2/03 7:28 PM
>
>Yes.  And "booked out" is entirely understandable as slang for "ran away".
>Somewhere along the line some illiterate dickhead thought he could omit
>that
>vital modifier.  STGM. [1]

The vital modifier being 'out'?

I hear booked for skedaddle all the time, most often without out.  What you are
probably doing is merging 'booked' into the most common phrase to follow, 'out
of here'.

But one can book the hell out of here, or merely book.  Or they could be
booking. They can even be booking as they arrive.  "Out" or "Away" is the most
common vector, but as I hear booked used in the sense of "moved very fast", any
direction will do, as long as they are booking.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED GrapeApe 1/2/03 7:34 PM
>My classmates and I still used it humorously for a couple of years
>after that, at least.

Far Out!  Thank god I'm a country boy.

I think any slang can be slung any time thereafter... the stuff that sounds the
stalest to me is often the newest... the newest seems to have much more vested
interest in actually appearing 'hip'.

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) GrapeApe 1/2/03 7:37 PM
>
>Close, but no cigar. The word originated with American jazz musicians
>to distinguish cool jazz from hot jazz. Cool jazz must have seen to be
>the superior of the two, since cool soon took on its positive sense.

If you were playing "a Hot Time, in the Old town, Tonight" you were probably
playing Dixieland, and destined to end up in Barbershop Quartets and Shakey's
Pizza. Trad, dad, was squaresville.

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) GrapeApe 1/2/03 7:39 PM
>> I think "grotty" was popularised by "A hard day's night", which was
>> released in 1964.
>
>There's no such word in the lyrics of that song.

Yah, boot we're talking about the film dialogue.

What about its overseas cousin, gross?  Still currently used... not sure when
it was first used in that sense.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED GrapeApe 1/2/03 7:42 PM
>> "book...
>> 3. [infl. by BOOG, BOOGIE, v.] to leave.; to go fast; move along.  --
>also
>> constr. with 'it', 'up'."
>>
>> [snip of cites going back as far as 1974]
>>
>
>AHA ... we finally get to a citation for the usage.  Thank you.

Only 1974?  That's why I think slang dictionaries are for the birds.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED GrapeApe 1/2/03 7:45 PM
>>
>> And I still, to this day, use "Cool", but it's pronounced as a
>> two-syllable word, "COO-ool"
>
>Farm out!

I'm not following the above trend, but expressing a tangent...

Infrequently, yet up to the present day, I hear "Kewl Beans".  Not necessarilly
tied to any particular time period, although I doubt I heard it before 20 years
ago.

History of 'Cool' ctd. (was: Usage of "Booked" not in OED) dcw 1/3/03 2:04 AM
In article <20030102162358.01825.00000269@mb-fx.aol.com>,
Bermuda999 <bermu...@aol.com> wrote:

>Old English: cr'udan
>Middle English: crud
>Modern English: curd (with some dialects apparently still using "crud" in this
>sense)

I've heard of dialect "cruddle", presumably meaning "curdle".

        David

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Bermuda999 1/3/03 2:20 AM
grapeape@aol.comjunk  (GrapeApe)

It's also possible you misunderstand the process of listing citations in slang
dictionaries. The citations are all from verifiable sources such as newspapers,
motion pictures, novels, etc. What Billy Bob believes he remembers Bobby Jo
saying to Polly Jean six months or six years prior to a phrase's appearance in
print or on film may be important, but does not fall under the verifiable
citation standards. This process results in even the earliest citations being
later than, or much later than, popular usage of the word or phrase, but it
does establish a no-later-than timeframe.

In certain instances, the word or phrase may have been the creation of the
writer of the earliest citation. If it was, it is usually noted in the citation
or notes. Otherwise, the citations are more often reflections of "when a word
or phrase became so prevalent that it seeped into popular modern media"

As for this sense of the word "book", if you have a media citation prior to
1974, I'm sure the Random House editors would welcome it.

And if you have any attributions for the writers of the words which you quoted
but did not attribute, I'm sure they would be welcome as well.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Matti Lamprhey 1/3/03 3:01 AM
"Steve Hayes" <haye...@yahoo.com> wrote...

> "Matti Lamprhey" <matti-...@totally-official.com> wrote:
> >"Steve Hayes" <haye...@yahoo.com> wrote...
> >>
> >> Cool was the opposite of square.
> >>
> >> If you were square, you weren't with it.
> >>
> >> Those were the language of a subculture in the 1950s, became general in
> >> the 1960s, and gradually disappeared in the 1970s, and only cool
> >> persisted.
> >
> >In Britain in the 1960s the opposite of "square" was "hip", not "cool".
> >Cool and square exhibit a marked degree of orthogonality.
>
> But a hipster was a cool cat, and a square certainly wasn't.

A hipster?  That was a kind of trousering, as I recall.

Matti


Usage of "Booked" not in OED Matti Lamprhey 1/3/03 3:01 AM
"GrapeApe" <grapeape@aol.comjunk> wrote...
> Matti wrote:
> >[...] "booked out" is entirely understandable as slang for "ran away".

> >Somewhere along the line some illiterate dickhead thought he could omit
> >that vital modifier.
>
> The vital modifier being 'out'?

Prezactly.

> I hear booked for skedaddle all the time, most often without out.  What
> you are probably doing is merging 'booked' into the most common phrase
> to follow, 'out of here'.

No, "book out" is the idiom, pure and simple.

> But one can book the hell out of here, or merely book.  Or they could be
> booking. They can even be booking as they arrive.  "Out" or "Away" is the
> most common vector, but as I hear booked used in the sense of "moved
> very fast", any direction will do, as long as they are booking.

I stick by my supposition that "book out" was the original slang for "run
away", and that it's become confusingly simplified since then.  How do you
suppose this "book = move fast" thing got started?

Matti


History of 'Cool' ctd. mickwick 1/3/03 5:24 AM
In alt.usage.english, John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:

>This is the archetypal Ena
>
>http://www.movietshirt.com/images/television/enasharplesl.jpg

Good grief! It's John Prescott! You don't think ... ?

--
Mickwick

History of 'Cool' ctd. mickwick 1/3/03 5:25 AM
In alt.usage.english, Laura F Spira <la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote:

>Since I was pleased to see that you had returned after an absence, I did
>not wish to scare you away again with excessive picking of nits: the
>fashion error seemed more egregious.

Thank you.

But you couldn't have scared me away as I'm not really here. I've given
up Usenet, you see. I just dropped in to see what you're all up to.

(The answer seems to be 'rutting'. There are unseasonable amounts of
testosterone awash in AUE at present. If certain gentlemen don't shed
their antlers and start sprouting fresh velvet soon they'll not have
time to grow more than the tiniest of pricks on their heads before the
true rut begins in the autumn.)

--
Mickwick

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Steve Hayes 1/3/03 10:10 AM
On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:01:59 -0000, "Matti Lamprhey"
<matti-...@totally-official.com> wrote:

If you read the Perishers, them was dragsters.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Dean 1/3/03 11:08 AM
Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:15:59 -0000, "Matti Lamprhey"
> <matti-...@totally-official.com> wrote:
>
>> "Steve Hayes" <haye...@yahoo.com> wrote...
>>>
>>> Cool was the opposite of square.
>>>
>>> If you were square, you weren't with it.
>>>
>>> Those were the language of a subculture in the 1950s, became
>>> general in the 1960s, and gradually disappeared in the 1970s, and
>>> only cool persisted.
>>
>> In Britain in the 1960s the opposite of "square" was "hip", not
>> "cool". Cool and square exhibit a marked degree of orthogonality.
>
> But a hipster was a cool cat, and a square certainly wasn't.

Always confusing when they said 'be there or be square' and you knew it was
cool to be a 'gone cat'.
Should you be there, or should you be gone?


--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply


Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Dean 1/3/03 11:12 AM
Bermuda999 wrote:
> grapeape@aol.comjunk  (GrapeApe)
>
>>>> "book...
>>>> 3. [infl. by BOOG, BOOGIE, v.] to leave.; to go fast; move along.
>>>> --
>>> also
>>>> constr. with 'it', 'up'."
>>>>
>>>> [snip of cites going back as far as 1974]
>>>>
>>>
>>> AHA ... we finally get to a citation for the usage.  Thank you.
>>
>> Only 1974?  That's why I think slang dictionaries are for the birds.
>>
>
> It's also possible you misunderstand the process of listing citations
> in slang dictionaries. The citations are all from verifiable sources
> such as newspapers, motion pictures, novels, etc. What Billy Bob
> believes he remembers Bobby Jo saying to Polly Jean six months or six
> years prior to a phrase's appearance in print or on film may be
> important, but does not fall under the verifiable citation standards.

Excuse my interrupting you in full flow, old bean, but I think you may be in
danger of laying some boogie woogie on the kings of rock 'n' roll here.
While I agree that what you say is perfectly proper for formal publications,
I think an informal group like this can have a lot of fun trying to dredge
up memories of 'earliest recollected usage', even though we produce nothing
that could be carved in stone.


--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply


Usage of "Booked" not in OED Bermuda999 1/3/03 11:18 AM
"John Dean" john...@frag.lineone.net

>Always confusing when they said 'be there or be square'

"I can do both"

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Bermuda999 1/3/03 11:23 AM
"John Dean" john...@frag.lineone.net

Which is, of course, why I specifically limited my comments to citations in
slang dictionaries, in response to a comment about citations in slang
dictionaries.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Varela 1/3/03 3:21 PM
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 02:13:20 UTC, bermu...@aol.com (Bermuda999) wrote:

> The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang:
>  
> "book...
> 3. [infl. by BOOG, BOOGIE, v.] to leave.; to go fast; move along.  -- also
> constr. with 'it', 'up'."
 
Might that be related to "bug out"?  As used in the MASH sitcom.

--
     John Varela

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 1/3/03 9:38 PM
On Fri, 03 Jan 2003 23:21:46 GMT, jav...@earthlink.net (John Varela)
wrote:

The meaning of that expression may have changed. In my experience, it
means to get nutty, and is now shortened to "bugging." I'm not sure
whether I can give a reliable report of how far back that usage goes.

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED R Fontana 1/3/03 10:25 PM

I'm pretty sure I heard my older brother say it (as "cool beans") 20 or
so years ago, possibly as early as late 1980.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 1/3/03 10:40 PM
On Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:25:30 -0500, R Fontana <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu>
wrote:

>On 3 Jan 2003, GrapeApe wrote:

>> Infrequently, yet up to the present day, I hear "Kewl Beans".  Not necessarilly
>> tied to any particular time period, although I doubt I heard it before 20 years
>> ago.
>
>I'm pretty sure I heard my older brother say it (as "cool beans") 20 or
>so years ago, possibly as early as late 1980.

I don't recall ever hearing this expression.

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Tony Cooper 1/3/03 10:58 PM

Phone up my daughter.  Dunno if she says "kewl beans" or "cool beans",
but she certainly uses one of the two.

--
Provider of Jots, Tittles and the occasional "Oy!"
Tony Cooper aka tony_cooper213 at yahoo.com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 1/4/03 4:08 AM
On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 01:58:43 -0500, Tony Cooper
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 06:40:26 GMT, panNO...@musician.org (Pan) wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:25:30 -0500, R Fontana <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 3 Jan 2003, GrapeApe wrote:
>>
>>>> Infrequently, yet up to the present day, I hear "Kewl Beans".  Not necessarilly
>>>> tied to any particular time period, although I doubt I heard it before 20 years
>>>> ago.
>>>
>>>I'm pretty sure I heard my older brother say it (as "cool beans") 20 or
>>>so years ago, possibly as early as late 1980.
>>
>>I don't recall ever hearing this expression.
>>
>Phone up my daughter.  Dunno if she says "kewl beans" or "cool beans",
>but she certainly uses one of the two.

How old is your daughter? I presume she grew up in Florida? Which part
of Florida is that, again?

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Tony Cooper 1/4/03 7:31 AM

My daughter is in her 30s, essentially grew up in Florida, and now
lives in the Jacksonville area.  I don't have any idea of how long ago
she picked up the expression.

--
Provider of Jots, Tittles and the occasional "Oy!"
Tony Cooper aka tony_cooper213 at yahoo.com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Brian Wickham 1/4/03 7:36 AM

I've always heard "bug out" to mean: to leave precipitously.  It was
quite popular during the Vietnam War and was known well before that
but I can't put a date on it.  I seem to remember that Hawks accused
Doves of wanting to "bug out" of Vietnam, implying that the South
Vietnamese would be left in the lurch.  And didn't Nixon use the
phrase, saying he would never do that?

Also during the 1960s the word "boogie" came back with, I believe, the
San Francisco rock bands and the hippie movement.  "Boogie"  was
revived from the 1940s but changed to mean "to go" as in "Boogie on
down to the store."

Brian Wickham

Usage of "Booked" not in OED John Dean 1/4/03 3:52 PM

Far Out, Brussel Sprout...


--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply


Usage of "Booked" not in OED R Fontana 1/4/03 10:29 PM

I think it was something he picked up at college, possibly from
Californian friends.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED R Fontana 1/4/03 10:58 PM
On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Pan wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 01:58:43 -0500, Tony Cooper
> <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >Phone up my daughter.  Dunno if she says "kewl beans" or "cool beans",
> >but she certainly uses one of the two.
>
> How old is your daughter? I presume she grew up in Florida? Which part
> of Florida is that, again?

Like I told you.  *rland*.

Usage of "Booked" not in OED R Fontana 1/4/03 11:14 PM
On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Tony Cooper wrote:

> My daughter is in her 30s, essentially grew up in Florida, and now
> lives in the Jacksonville area.

By choice?  Or does she work for Merrill Lynch?


Usage of "Booked" not in OED Truly Donovan 1/4/03 11:27 PM
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:00:16 -0500, Tony Cooper
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>The surprise at  the word "booked" meaning "ran away" surprises me.  I
>would understand the word - in this context - to mean not only ran
>away, but ran away very quickly:  She booked out of here.  
>
>I am a little surprised that a police officer would use the term since
>"booked" also means entered into the system after being arrested.  The
>arrest is the action, and the booking is the recording.  It would seem
>to be confusing to say "she booked" on the radio since it could be
>misunderstood to mean "she was booked".

Uh, you don't think anyone would have noticed that one usage is
transitive and the other isn't?

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 1/5/03 1:55 AM
On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 10:31:52 -0500, Tony Cooper
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:08:52 GMT, panNO...@musician.org (Pan) wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 01:58:43 -0500, Tony Cooper
>><tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>>Phone up my daughter.  Dunno if she says "kewl beans" or "cool beans",
>>>but she certainly uses one of the two.
>>
>>How old is your daughter? I presume she grew up in Florida? Which part
>>of Florida is that, again?
>
>My daughter is in her 30s,

So, close to my age.

> essentially grew up in Florida, and now
>lives in the Jacksonville area.  I don't have any idea of how long ago
>she picked up the expression.

I wonder which region it may have originally come from.

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 1/5/03 1:57 AM
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 01:58:16 -0500, R Fontana <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu>
wrote:

>On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Pan wrote:

*h. I've g*t it n*w.

But h*w silly!

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Mark Brader 1/5/03 3:06 AM
John Varela:

>>> Might that be related to "bug out"?  As used in the MASH sitcom.

"Michael":


>> The meaning of that expression may have changed. In my experience, it
>> means to get nutty, and is now shortened to "bugging." ...

I don't think I've heard this, certainly not the short form.

Brian Wickham:


> I've always heard "bug out" to mean: to leave precipitously.  It was
> quite popular during the Vietnam War and was known well before that...

And was apparently still current in 1986; it's heard in the movie "Top Gun".
--
Mark Brader   |   "I'm a little worried about the bug-eater", she said.
Toronto       |   "We're embedded in bugs, have you noticed?"
m...@vex.net   |                          -- Niven, "The Integral Trees"

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 1/5/03 3:19 AM
On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 11:06:28 GMT, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>John Varela:
>>>> Might that be related to "bug out"?  As used in the MASH sitcom.
>
>"Michael":
>>> The meaning of that expression may have changed. In my experience, it
>>> means to get nutty, and is now shortened to "bugging." ...
>
>I don't think I've heard this, certainly not the short form.
[snip]

It's most common among African-Americans.

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Tony Cooper 1/5/03 10:57 AM
On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 00:27:17 -0700, Truly Donovan <tr...@lunemere.com>
wrote:

Ever heard a police radio transmission?  When the sound comes from a
speaker on the dashboard and the sound competes with road noises and
donut chewing, the transitive aspect may be overlooked.   The usage -
isolated and written on the screen here - is very clear.  What I'm
referring to is the verbal use on the radio.  Usually, police
transmissions are phrased in the least likely to be confusing manner.


--
Provider of Jots, Tittles and the occasional "Oy!"
Tony Cooper aka tony_cooper213 at yahoo.com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Tony Cooper 1/5/03 12:07 PM
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 02:14:08 -0500, R Fontana <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu>
wrote:

>On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Tony Cooper wrote:By choice.  Actually, she lives in Jacksonville Beach.  She and her
husband rarely venture across the bridge into Jacksonville proper.
The beach cities are quite nice.  It's almost a small town atmosphere.

They bought an older house last year that needed quite a bit of
remodeling and renovation.  Every single person that worked on the
house was someone that they knew previously.  My daughter's husband
went to high school there, and used several former classmates.
Through marriages, bars, restaurants, and social events, everyone
seems to know everyone.  


--
Provider of Jots, Tittles and the occasional "Oy!"
Tony Cooper aka tony_cooper213 at yahoo.com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Skitt 1/5/03 12:13 PM
Tony Cooper wrote:

[...]


> My daughter's husband
> went to high school there, and used several former classmates.

Should that be mentioned?
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area)    http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
  I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
                   -- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Skitt 1/5/03 12:17 PM
Tony Cooper wrote:

> Every single person that worked on the
> house was someone that they knew previously.  

What an ingenious end-around for the "who" vs. "whom" issue.  Kudos!


--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area)    http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
  I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
                   -- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Charles Riggs 1/5/03 9:40 PM
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:17:34 -0800, "Skitt" <sk...@attbi.com> wrote:

>Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> Every single person that worked on the
>> house was someone that they knew previously.  
>
>What an ingenious end-around for the "who" vs. "whom" issue.  Kudos!

Not an end-around (accepted English word: workaround) at all; the
ignoramus doesn't know any better, and trying to teach him English
does little good: it's like trying to teach an Eskimo to be a
vegetarian, a Catholic to be a Protestant, a lying bullshitter to be
truthful, getting back to C**per, or anything else not in their
natures.

--
Charles Riggs
chriggs |at| eircom |dot| com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Charles Riggs 1/5/03 9:40 PM

Perhaps you're thinking of buggery.

--
Charles Riggs
chriggs |at| eircom |dot| com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 1/5/03 10:14 PM

Now, why would you say an idiotic thing like that? Are you, perhaps, a
racist piece of shit?

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Skitt 1/6/03 10:29 AM
Charles Riggs wrote:

> "Skitt" wrote:
>> Tony Cooper wrote:

>>> Every single person that worked on the
>>> house was someone that they knew previously.
>>
>> What an ingenious end-around for the "who" vs. "whom" issue.  Kudos!
>
> Not an end-around (accepted English word: workaround) at all;

I was watching the 49ers game at the time and substituted the term on
purpose.  Nice play!


--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area)    http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
  I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
                   -- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)


Usage of "Booked" not in OED Charles Riggs 1/6/03 7:15 PM

Sorry, Michael, did I hit a little too close to home? We already know
you're an ass-kisser; what other involvements you have with the
anatomy of other men, I can only guess. If you are a homosexual, as I
suspect you are, remember there is no shame in that: admit it like a
man and hold your head high, for many great men have been of that
persuasion.

--
Charles Riggs
chriggs |at| eircom |dot| com

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Pan 1/6/03 10:53 PM
On Tue, 07 Jan 2003 03:15:20 +0000, Charles Riggs
<chrigg...@eircom.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Jan 2003 06:14:33 GMT, panNO...@musician.org (Pan) wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 06 Jan 2003 05:40:28 +0000, Charles Riggs
>><chrigg...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 11:19:08 GMT, panNO...@musician.org (Pan) wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 11:06:28 GMT, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>>>>>"Michael":
>>>>>>> The meaning of that expression may have changed. In my experience, it
>>>>>>> means to get nutty, and is now shortened to "bugging." ...
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't think I've heard this, certainly not the short form.
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>It's most common among African-Americans.
>>>
>>>Perhaps you're thinking of buggery.
>>
>>Now, why would you say an idiotic thing like that? Are you, perhaps, a
>>racist piece of shit?
>
>Sorry, Michael, did I hit a little too close to home? We already know
>you're an ass-kisser;
[snip]

Just because I'm not a fucking racist?

I'm glad you're out of the country. We don't need shits like you here.
But I'm sorry for the Irish that they have to suffer your evil
influence.

Michael

Usage of "Booked" not in OED Charles Riggs 1/8/03 4:46 AM
On Tue, 07 Jan 2003 06:53:05 GMT, panNO...@musician.org (Pan) wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Jan 2003 03:15:20 +0000, Charles Riggs
><chrigg...@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 06 Jan 2003 06:14:33 GMT, panNO...@musician.org (Pan) wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 06 Jan 2003 05:40:28 +0000, Charles Riggs
>>><chrigg...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 11:19:08 GMT, panNO...@musician.org (Pan) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 11:06:28 GMT, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
>>>>>>"Michael":
>>>>>>>> The meaning of that expression may have changed. In my experience, it
>>>>>>>> means to get nutty, and is now shortened to "bugging." ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't think I've heard this, certainly not the short form.
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>It's most common among African-Americans.
>>>>
>>>>Perhaps you're thinking of buggery.
>>>
>>>Now, why would you say an idiotic thing like that? Are you, perhaps, a
>>>racist piece of shit?
>>
>>Sorry, Michael, did I hit a little too close to home? We already know
>>you're an ass-kisser;
>[snip]
>
>Just because I'm not a fucking racist?

My remark wasn't racist. It was simply an acknowledgement that some
white sissy boys, like yourself, find the cocks of Negro bucks
appealing, thereby becoming obsessed with the thought of buggery, and
appalled at the very thought of someone making disparaging remarks
about their current boyfriend. You are not alone, if the reports I've
read are true.

>I'm glad you're out of the country. We don't need shits like you here.
>But I'm sorry for the Irish that they have to suffer your evil
>influence.

Au contraire, my unsophisticated toady; I'm one of the nicest people
in town. You have, by the way, no need to feel "sorry" for the Irish.
Bumpkins like you should travel over here to see why, but please don't
stay for long. Since you're probably unemployed, let me know the dates
and I can reserve a cheap bed for you at one of the hostels.

--
Charles Riggs
chriggs |at| eircom |dot| com

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