432 MHz WSPR

Showing 1-170 of 170 messages
432 MHz WSPR n6gn 6/28/13 12:32 PM

Now that we have several stations stable and accurate, I'm wondering about the interest in a regular time for trying 432 MHz WSPR.
WW6D, K6PZB, WA6M and N6GN have all run on 432.300 dial on and off but perhaps a more concerted effort makes sense now.

432 has some different challenges compared to 2m. Even with frequency stability solved the generally smaller physical antenna apertures, along with worsening foliage and terrain attenuation, make it more of a challenge. For ACS signals, we can expect three times the frequency offset.  Since it appears that much or all of the longer DX 2m spots involves ACS, it will be interesting to see if we can find aircraft on routes that support standard 2 minute WSPR.

WA6M and N6GN have already tried WSPR-15 on 432.3 with very good success. This can give us almost another 10 dB of sensitivity which might help make up for some of the above issues. However, it may make ACS related propagation unusable since the frequency 'stability' requirements are eight times as severe and we don't yet know how constant the DX WSPR spots, such as those between KC6KGE and Northern California, really are. WSPR 2 doesn't report perceived drift with less than 1 Hz resolution so even ACS paths that appear to have 0 drift on WSPR v2 may be unusable on 432 with WSPR v15.

At present, WW6D, WA6M, KI6STW, KC6KGE, N6GN have radios that support 432.  K6PZB is awaiting repair or replacement of an IC706 in order to become QRU on 432 again. It's possible, but I think not proven that N6KOG may have enough stability. I can't remember  what the results were when we last tried.

Of these, I think KI6STW and KC6KGE may not yet have 432 antennas with significant aperture/gain.  With the larger aperture/gain comes increased directivity. This means that we may have organize our efforts more than for HF or even 2m WSPR.  It would seem that the Sonoma County stations are clustered close enough, with the possible exception of WA6M, that they might be considered as a bloc when trying to run with KI6STW or KC6KGE.

We have had a couple of "432 Tuesdays" but I don't think there's a strong preference for any particular day. 

So my questions are, "Is there interest in running regularly on 432 WSPR?",  "What more do we need to start?"  "How should we go about trying it?"

Glenn n6gn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} 432 MHz WSPR KC6KGE 6/28/13 12:38 PM
I don't have a suitable antenna for 430 MHz.
I really want to put my effort into a better 144 MHz antenna and support structure on that first.
I'd be up to it if I had the antenna for it however. 

Steven  


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Steven L Hess ARS KC6KGE DM05gd22
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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 6/28/13 12:50 PM
I think we could come up with a perfectly fine and inexpensive homebrew design. Perhaps one using the old NBS design data made from 1/2" Cu water pipe and brazing rod. I've designed, built and measured these carefully at 900 MHz and I'm sure we can get good performance for not much cost. Though I think we could design a feed/match that would get us a good portion of 420-450, I see no reason for targetting much other than 432 -433 MHz.

The support for an antenna like this is another matter though.  I'm not sure what to do about that. It's not heavy but it might be fairly long and we do want it as high as practical.

What boom length could everyone tolerate for 432?   Longer means more signal resulting from higher directivity. This makes any tests and studies more point-point.

Glenn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} 432 MHz WSPR lps 6/28/13 12:58 PM
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013, n6gn wrote:

> Of these, I think KI6STW and KC6KGE may not yet have 432 antennas with significant aperture/gain.ᅵ With the
> larger aperture/gain comes increased directivity. This means that we may have organize our efforts more than
> for HF or even 2m WSPR.ᅵ It would seem that the Sonoma County stations are clustered close enough, with the
> possible exception of WA6M, that they might be considered as a bloc when trying to run with KI6STW or KC6KGE.

My 2 meter antenna hasn't been spotted yet when used for 432 MHz WSPR
activities......

I do have a nifty 7 element antenna that may be useful for 432 MHz WSPR
transmissions.  It is currently confined to the inside of the office for
the moment.   It would need some elevation and directional control to be
useful.   I picked it up from HSC Electronics.


Image:
https://picasaweb.google.com/112916124640757906440/NonarthopodicAntenna#5744075011289411922

Kevin Martinez
KI6STW


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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} 432 MHz WSPR KC6KGE 6/28/13 2:05 PM
Anything over a 16 foot boom and I'll have a hard time fitting it in.
It could go above my future replaced 2 meter beam. 

On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Line Printer <l...@rahul.net> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013, n6gn wrote:

Of these, I think KI6STW and KC6KGE may not yet have 432 antennas with significant aperture/gain.  With the

larger aperture/gain comes increased directivity. This means that we may have organize our efforts more than
for HF or even 2m WSPR.  It would seem that the Sonoma County stations are clustered close enough, with the

possible exception of WA6M, that they might be considered as a bloc when trying to run with KI6STW or KC6KGE.

My 2 meter antenna hasn't been spotted yet when used for 432 MHz WSPR activities......

I do have a nifty 7 element antenna that may be useful for 432 MHz WSPR transmissions.  It is currently confined to the inside of the office for the moment.   It would need some elevation and directional control to be useful.   I picked it up from HSC Electronics.


Image:
https://picasaweb.google.com/112916124640757906440/NonarthopodicAntenna#5744075011289411922

Kevin Martinez
KI6STW


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____________
Apply appropriate technology. Use what works without prejudice.  
Steven L Hess ARS KC6KGE DM05gd22
Google Voice 661 769 6201 +SMS
openSUSE Linux 12.2 KDE 4.8.5
Known as FlameBait and  The Sock Puppet of Doom.

Re: {2 Meter WSPR} 432 MHz WSPR KC6KGE 6/28/13 2:47 PM
This one have a useful amount of gain? 

http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/csh-a43011s

Seems  fine for my assembly skill level. 

The M2 I built for 220 years ago was way too much trouble
I like the screw through the element attachments even if they might be noisy and not as efficient.
Better than my measuring skills and eyeballs aligning the elements. 
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} 432 MHz WSPR KC6KGE 6/28/13 3:13 PM
Thats a very nice antenna Kevin. Pretty idiot proof. Looks pricey 
It needs more elements. 

I need at least 11 or more. I am way the heck down here. I'll need all the RX gain I can muster. 

I am very cost sensitive. 
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 6/28/13 4:02 PM
How about something like this, built for 432 instead of 904?
http://www.sonic.net/~n6gn/antenna/oldyagi.pdf
This one would be just under 10' long for 432 and could be made from a single piece of hardware store They really aren't difficult to construct and can be built for just over the price of the copper boom material, on the order of $10.
The feed is a folded dipole just bent brass soldered to a through brazing rod rod element and fed with a coaxial balun
 http://www.sonic.net/~n6gn/antenna/a2.gif
Here's one mounted from behind on a push-up mast: http://www.sonic.net/~n6gn/antenna/a1.gif  I wouldn't mount a 432 one this way because of the weight but a metal gusset plate and four U-clamps would be fine and let it balance OK.  They need to be painted to keep the brazing rod from corroding and degrading them in a rather insidious manner, but if you do paint them, they seem to weather OK.

This antenna has gain measured on an outdoor range  of about 14 dBd, as I remember. Mounted too low and the peak of the main lobe may be tilted up 20 or 30 degrees. This isn't a characteristic of this particular antenna, it's just the physics of yagis near ground.

It's more work than the commercial ones but should be pretty cheap.

Glenn n6gn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} 432 MHz WSPR N6SKM 6/29/13 10:30 PM
Please let me know when you're going to run 432.  In RO, my FT857 shows 0 drift on your GPS signals, so it should be fine on 70cm.  I have a nice antenna for 70cm, with a preamp, as well as two other receivers that can cover that band.  It would be fun to see if I can hear anyone on 70cm WSPR.
Steve, N6SKM
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 6/29/13 11:03 PM
Steve,
Sounds like a good plan and I think there's a decent chance that you can spot something.  For the time being, let's plan on running 432.300 dial all day Tuesday - from whenever I get up and remember until Wednesday AM.    Doug, Bob, John, Kevin, do you want to try then also?

Glenn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} 432 MHz WSPR lps 6/30/13 9:40 PM
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013, Glenn Elmore wrote:

> Sounds like a good plan and I think there's a decent chance that you can spot something.ᅵ For the time being,
> let's plan on running 432.300 dial all day Tuesday - from whenever I get up and remember until Wednesday AM.ᅵᅵᅵ
> Doug, Bob, John, Kevin, do you want to try then also?


Hi,

I'll set it up to run on that frequency. Perhaps I can figure out a way to
mount my UHF antenna on an existing antenna mast. It's more likely I'll be
testing UHF efficiency on my 2 meter antenna.  :)
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} 432 MHz WSPR Doug 7/1/13 7:19 AM
I will be on 432 tomorrow; there will be a short gap in the morning but should be on tomorrow afternoon until Wednesday.

Doug WW6D
Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 7/2/13 11:08 AM
After just a little bit of WSPR testing it looks like things are working.
...
Re: 432 MHz WSPR N6SKM 7/2/13 5:24 PM
Here's what I heard.  At 22:30GMT I rotated the beam from SSE to NNW and got nothing from N6GN or WW6D.
I then put on an amp and got lots more noise, but still no signal.  Next I put up a 16-bay UHF antenna.
Still nothing.  Back to NNW beam and transmitted (SWR 1.7) for a while at 20 watts.  No decodes reported.
Now back to just listening, pointing NNW.
Thanks for the experiment!    Steve,N6SKM

Timestamp          Call       MHz         SNR Drift Grid Pwr Reporter RGrid km az  
2013-07-02 21:36 N6KOG 432.301470 -22   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  
2013-07-02 21:14 N6KOG 432.301471 -16   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  
2013-07-02 20:54 N6KOG 432.301470 -17   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  
2013-07-02 20:32 N6KOG 432.301468   -1   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  <- WOW!
2013-07-02 20:10 N6KOG 432.301465 -15   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  
2013-07-02 19:50 N6KOG 432.301463 -14   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  
2013-07-02 19:28 N6KOG 432.301461 -16   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  
2013-07-02 19:06 N6KOG 432.301455 -13   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  
2013-07-02 18:58 N6KOG 432.301425 -11   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256 
Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 7/2/13 10:28 PM

Interesting trial.  As can be seen in the database, we had pretty solid success from n6kog to ww6d and n6gn in Sonoma County. Quite a wide range in spot S/N, on the order of 25 dB for the day with the peak (+6) in the AM.   The fog has come in tonight so perhaps that prevented a similar peak this evening.

WA6M reports that he was on but not hearing anyone - even though SSB working to this area.   No sign of others on the waterfall, though I may not have watching at the correct time.

Maybe we can run again next Tuesday which could give an opportunity for any station or antenna rearrangement.

N6GN now returning to 2m.

Glenn n6gn 5:30 UTC
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR lps 7/3/13 8:03 PM
On Tue, 2 Jul 2013, n6gn wrote:

> Interesting trial.ᅵ As can be seen in the database, we had pretty solid success from n6kog to ww6d and n6gn in
> Sonoma County. Quite a wide range in spot S/N, on the order of 25 dB for the day with the peak (+6) in the
> AM.ᅵᅵ The fog has come in tonight so perhaps that prevented a similar peak this evening.


I kept a close on eye on my WSPR application and for when I wasn't looking
at it, I ensured images of WSPR running were saved for later examination.

Going over the images, I don't see any 432.3 MHz WSPR signals and there
aren't any visible "almost" spotted signals from my receiver.  Looking
thru the WSPR spots database, I wasn't being spotted on 432.3 MHz as well.

My 2 meter antenna system is probably greatly less efficient for use with
70 cm wavelengths than I guessed or hoped. After wanting to see some live
432.3 MHz spots, at the end of the day, I decided to try to spot my
signals locally by using my old AR-3000A receiver as KI6STW/2.

I had to "find" what frequency would displayed on the AR-3000A when I was
transmitting on 432.300000 Mhz..... It turned out the AR-3000A VFO seemed
fairly close and I was able to get KI6STW spots!  However, the AR-3000A
does not have the frequency control or stability of recent hardware
assisted by the GPS10P.  I've attached an image of two KI6STW 432.3 spots
at 02:14 and 02:34 which reveals the AR-3000A thermal drift effects
between the spots.

I've also attached an image of two KI6STW 2 meter spots at 07:14 and
07:34. At this point, there is less frequency change between the spot
instances but the spots are oddly inclined, perhaps a symptom of
"capacitor plague" in the future of this AR-3000A.

I hadn't seen or noticed previously that strong received signals from my
IC-7000 have regularly spaced (in frequency) signals that also are
possible to spot.  These signals appear to be bracketed by stronger
signals at +/- 60 hz from the center?

It's possible my High-Tech Ancient secondary WSPR station's configuration
may cause these WSPR spots to appear odd.   I used a 50 ohm terminator on
the AR-3000A as the antenna system and tried to balance that out by using
the Astron 35 amp power supply to compensate.  ^-^

Antenna image:
https://picasaweb.google.com/112916124640757906440/NonarthopodicAntenna#5896533670127749890

73 + Happy July 4!
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 7/3/13 8:25 PM
This all seems reasonable. My only surprise is that you didn't see a
little bit of 432.3 from one of us. Signals are strong enough on 2m that
I thought you might. N6KOG was coming into Sonoma County very well so I
thought you might make it too. Probably need a little work on 432
antenna system - as you have mentioned. I think your yagi will be fine
if you can get it up above the rooftops a bit.
The waterfall and spots look totally reasonable. You still really do
have 10 Hz sidebands that are spottable if signals are strong enough.
The seem to be between 20-30 dB down which is probably correct for 432
(they ought to be 3 times as big up there so almost 10 dB stronger than
as N6SKM measured them on 2m).  The stronger 60 lines are either your
sound card or your receiver, I think. It's really easy to get line
related components from ground loops even when everything running on 12
VDC (if it is).

Can we help you get a 432 antenna going? If you want to mail it back, I
can modify the GPS10 for you to fix the 10Hz stuff. That won't fix the
60 Hz problem but that's probably not on your main system so doesn't matter.

Glenn n6gn


On 07/03/2013 08:03 PM, Line Printer wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jul 2013, n6gn wrote:
>
>> Interesting trial.  As can be seen in the database, we had pretty
>> solid success from n6kog to ww6d and n6gn in
>> Sonoma County. Quite a wide range in spot S/N, on the order of 25 dB
>> for the day with the peak (+6) in the
>> AM.   The fog has come in tonight so perhaps that prevented a similar
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR N6SKM 7/3/13 8:46 PM
Attached is a listing of all the spots received here in Pleasanton. At 2230 GMT I changed the 7-element 2-meter beam from SSE to NNW, which caused N6KOG to come in even stronger, but no other signals were received.  (There may have been one faint trace, but it didn't decode.)  This was, however, lots of fun, and I got some great exercise on my ladder!
Steve, N6SKM


Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 7/2/13 6:32 PM
Hello Steve - The "WOW" was when I pointed in your general direction to see if Kevin/KI6STW might
be heard.... Then went back towards 300Degs at N6GN/WW6D... I'll be back-up soon, just too hot in
the garage to operate...
                                             73 Steve/N6KOG

From: N6SKM <mcgr...@gmail.com>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:24 PM
Subject: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 7/4/13 6:33 PM
Sorry about the delay on these posts. For some reason Google Groups held
on to them thinking they might be spam and just now let me know...
Glenn




Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 7/4/13 8:30 PM
Now they are....hahahaha. TNX Steve/N6KOG

From: Glenn Elmore <n6...@sonic.net>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

Sorry about the delay on these posts. For some reason Google Groups held on to them thinking they might be spam and just now let me know...
Glenn




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Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 7/9/13 10:48 AM

Tuesday 432 WSPR

Slightly late in the morning, I'm now running on 432.300. Bob, WA6M and Doug, WW6D expected to join before too long. Possibly W7PUA to  join also.

Beaming 140 for the moment.  If W7PUA comes on, I may turn the antenna for a while.

Glenn n6gn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 7/9/13 11:31 AM
GM Glenn & All - I'm up now on 432.300...But really more intrested in working Hawaii on 2Mtrs..But not hearing the
beacon in CM97.. CM96 was hearing it but he is at the coast... So be on 432 OFF & ON.....
                                        Steve/N6KOG

From: n6gn <n6...@sonic.net>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 10:48 AM
Subject: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

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Re: 432 MHz WSPR K6PZB 7/9/13 11:41 AM
I also hear beacon at 432.30140 but am not transmitting--John K6PZB CM88nk
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 7/9/13 11:57 AM
Hello John - Well the kh6hme beacon is at 432.310... I belive theres one in CM87 around 300.. not sure though..
                             73 Steve/N6KOG

From: K6PZB <jwat...@gmail.com>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 11:41 AM

Subject: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR Bob W7PUA 7/9/13 12:22 PM
Hi All,

I am now running:
Dial 432.300 000;  Xmit 432.301 530;  20W;  Ant on Bay Area/Sacramento
compromise;  Xmit 20% of time

I plan to leave this running until midnight, or so.

This is using the IC-706 MKIIG with Glenn's 30 MHz conversion for GPS
reference.  A week or two ago, I ran with W7SZ (about 100 miles north of
me) and it worked fine.

The antenna is a pair of 22-el Yagi's mounted above the 2-m antenna.  
That antenna has worked a hand full of stations in the Bay area as well
as the Sacramento area, but using 10 dB more power.  It has a plow NF
preamp at the antenna, but I am not using it now due to not being smart
enough to sort out the coax cables.  I'll pursue that again, I know I can.

Meanwhile, I will let it run now in the barefoot mode.

73, Bob  W7PUA  CN84io


Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 7/9/13 2:03 PM
I'm now beaming N.
Glenn n6gn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR Bob W7PUA 7/9/13 3:24 PM
I am not decoding anything on 432, yet.

For info, a few minutes ago I talked with Larry, W7SZ, and he reports
that K7FL/B, more-or-less in his backyard, is on 432.300 600 and
producing artifacts in the WSPR region up a kHz.  He is exploring this
and will report further.

Bob  W7PUA
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 7/9/13 4:23 PM
I initially started with WSPR 2.2.1 where WW6D and I saw each other. I
then moved to WSPR-X, thinking everything was OK since I saw waterfall
and was transmitting. It wasn't,  but I just now noticed (2312) the lack
of any spots either way.
I've reverted to WSPR 2.21 and things seem to be working again. WW6D
spotting me and both ways with WA6M.
I'll stay on overnight beaming North.

Glenn n6gn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR Bob W7PUA 7/9/13 9:24 PM
I have had a decode of Bob on 432:
0110 -25 -2.3 432.301490 0 WA6M CM88 37

Then, at 0346 I had a second WSPR trace that did not decode for some
reason, again at 432.301 490 (Not 480). It looked reasonably strong and
nobody else but WA6M is likely to be there.  All of Bob's neighbors say
480, the GPS is reporting a good fix (UT+ NMEA) but I saw 490 twice.  
This needs more checking before claiming A/C Doppler.!

I will try to catch W7SZ to correlate the frequencies.

73, Bob  W7PUA CN84

Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 7/9/13 11:38 PM
I think this is a perfectly good spot and completely consistent with
what we've been seeing on 2m.  I believe that virtually *all* the DX
spots we see involve ACS.
At 2m it is common to see spots offset and/or drifting from the known
good transmit frequency. It is only slightly less common to see two
spots at the same time. They would occur more often but the drift is
often more than WSPR can handle.

At 432 all the effects are tripled. What we think of as an "on frequency
spot" is easily 2-3 Hz offset up here.  I'm sure that Bob is either on
480 or possibly transmitting (but probably not receiving) .5 Hz low.
Doug and I both see his tx tone lower than it should be while he is
spotting both of us correctly.  We've seen this kind of error on typical
sound cards.

One of the reasons, I think, that we don't see more multi-spots and
spots quite far from correct frequency is that the aircraft vector is
pretty well aligned with our paths. Other vectors don't occur as much or
else don't return enough signal for the full two minutes to give us a spot.

One of the other clues that this is ACS is the uniformity of signal
strength. I think we're seeing the 500 square feet (give or take a
factor of several) aircraft cross section with fairly LOS paths from
each station. This also fits the SSB/CW tests that W6PQL has been
running for a long time with the Southern California 1296 net. Every
week the report is the same "From the north, W6PQL S1 to S2 on SSB (or
CW)".  Other known propagation mechanisms probably aren't this stable.

I think we are about to the place where we can predict station
requirements for a given S/N given end points.  I suspect this will hold
for all of VHF through microwave.

Also it could be that  the reason you have spotted Bob and not any of
the others, and vice versa, is likely pretty well explained by
ERP/aperture.  The rest of us are several dB short of making it to a
WSPR threshold.  We don't have the low take off angle (Bob has larger
antennas at 80' on a ridgetop). While we might make it to a WSPR-15
threshold with lesser stations, I doubt that we are going to see many
aircraft vectors that provide low enough drift to be sufficient for a spot.

A good tool for all of us, I think, would be a graphic solver of the
total path length vs. time, probably displayed as change in
wavelengths/second, Hz of expected Doppler offset. Input needs to be end
points and aircraft vector.  I wrote out the equation so maybe I'll get
around to a graphic output of the results one of these days.

In the meantime, I think given appropriate ERP and receive antenna
apertures this can likely be repeated on multiple bands.

Glenn n6gn
Re: 432 MHz WSPR Bo, OZ2M 7/10/13 6:31 AM

On Friday, June 28, 2013 9:32:23 PM UTC+2, n6gn wrote:

Now that we have several stations stable and accurate, I'm wondering about the interest in a regular time for trying 432 MHz WSPR.
WW6D, K6PZB, WA6M and N6GN have all run on 432.300 dial on and off but perhaps a more concerted effort makes sense now.

432 has some different challenges compared to 2m. Even with frequency stability solved the generally smaller physical antenna apertures, along with worsening foliage and terrain attenuation, make it more of a challenge. For ACS signals, we can expect three times the frequency offset.  Since it appears that much or all of the longer DX 2m spots involves ACS, it will be interesting to see if we can find aircraft on routes that support standard 2 minute WSPR.

WA6M and N6GN have already tried WSPR-15 on 432.3 with very good success. This can give us almost another 10 dB of sensitivity which might help make up for some of the above issues. However, it may make ACS related propagation unusable since the frequency 'stability' requirements are eight times as severe and we don't yet know how constant the DX WSPR spots, such as those between KC6KGE and Northern California, really are. WSPR 2 doesn't report perceived drift with less than 1 Hz resolution so even ACS paths that appear to have 0 drift on WSPR v2 may be unusable on 432 with WSPR v15.

At present, WW6D, WA6M, KI6STW, KC6KGE, N6GN have radios that support 432.  K6PZB is awaiting repair or replacement of an IC706 in order to become QRU on 432 again. It's possible, but I think not proven that N6KOG may have enough stability. I can't remember  what the results were when we last tried.

Of these, I think KI6STW and KC6KGE may not yet have 432 antennas with significant aperture/gain.  With the larger aperture/gain comes increased directivity. This means that we may have organize our efforts more than for HF or even 2m WSPR.  It would seem that the Sonoma County stations are clustered close enough, with the possible exception of WA6M, that they might be considered as a bloc when trying to run with KI6STW or KC6KGE.

We have had a couple of "432 Tuesdays" but I don't think there's a strong preference for any particular day. 

So my questions are, "Is there interest in running regularly on 432 WSPR?",  "What more do we need to start?"  "How should we go about trying it?"

Glenn n6gn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR Bob W7PUA 7/10/13 4:06 PM
Hi Glenn,

I think for the most part your ACS conclusion tracks my observations.  
The case, where I am not sure, is two stations operating VHF/UHF with
both having a very low, possibly negative, take-off angles.  This is so
favorable for "tropo-scatter" that the airplane peaks do not seem to
appear, or are of minor consequence.  My takeoff angle in your direction
is around zero. Anecdotal evidence of the above comes from my many tropo
scatter contacts with W6KH, when he lived in the hills south of SF (very
good take-off).  We worked "anytime" on SSB, but with weak but
consistent signals.  I remember many, huge meteor pings, but not a
single airplane type of event.  It would seem that the tropo scatter was
strong enough to not be particularly enhanced by ACS. Or, maybe we just
didn't have enough continuous hours at the right time of day to bring
ACS effects out.  That is always a problem with anecdotal evidence.

In the reverse situation, I have thousands of hours of data on 1296, 10
GHz and 24 Ghz with stations to my North, where the take off angle is 3
to 5 degrees, and the ACS enhancement was huge.  At the time, we
considered the airplanes a nuisance to what we were trying to measure,
and developed filters to remove them from the answers.  This also
allowed us to see how many airplane events there were at various times
of the day.

Another anecdotal case comes when I want to talk to Seattle from here on
432.  I must wait for a plane!

It would be interesting to arrange an experiment over a 400 to 600 mile
path to measure these effects, on a long term basis.  WSPR is sort of
doing this now, but is probably not the best of tools for this.  GPS
frequency control is a wonderful addition for such purposes.  I recently
did 2-m experiments with KD7TS (200 miles north of me) using steady CW
and Spectrum Lab.  Both stations were fully locked with DSP-10's.  The
tropo-scatter propagation bandwidth without airplanes was down, well
below 0.1 Hz. Airplanes were both plentiful and obvious with the BW at
0.03 Hz. The sensitivity was obviously very good, as well.

The question of the amount of Doppler shift is begging for answers.  
Your curved-Earth model, would seem to be the tool. Couldn't we just
generate parametric curves (plane height, station distance, plane
distance, off-track distance, etc.) that would puts some bounds on it?  
It is probably not worth trying to over-analyze, since if the plane
changes altitude, for instance, it can really change the answers.  I
would be happy to assist if it was useful.

That kind of curve might put perspective on the 10 Hz Doppler on Bob's
signal, for instance.  BTW, we do know that long paths tend to have less
Doppler than short ones.

Thanks for the thoughts, ideas and wisdom.  This is good fun.

73, Bob  W7PUA
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 7/10/13 7:49 PM
Bob,
Thanks for your input and comparisons.  I agree that it is beginning to
look pretty similar, with the exception of the "tropo-scatter"
mechanism. I confess that I do not understand this. The mechanism I'm
aware of, and have used on 10 GHz for ~700 km class QSO, matches the
textbook models for inhomogeneity of oxygen molecules in the upper
troposphere. However, if I remember correctly, these models favor
shorter wavelengths and I'm not sure explain 2m or 432 propagation. Do
you have any references I could peruse to learn more?

As yet, I don't think we've seen this "always there" mode on 2m WSPR.

I totally agree of the importance of take off angle. I've attributed the
scarcity of Northern California to LA Basin spots both to the lack of
stations and, when there were stations on, to the mountains near the
southern end. This may or may not be the case since in years past I've
worked LA many times on both CW and SSB from here in situations
requiring a lot better link budget than WSPR demands.

You're also right that it is a kick trying to "peel the onion" to figure
out what's really going on.

I think that, at least, Bob WA6M and I may be able to come up with
reasonable stations on 1296. In fact, WB7ABP, about 1 km from me has an
EME station that we might arrange to put on WSPR. Getting an elevated
antenna (on his tower instead of ground mounted as the 15' dish
currently is) is the biggest hurdle.

We all have 10 GHz stations as well, though I only have 10 watts there.

Thanks again,

Glenn n6gn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR Bob W7PUA 7/12/13 12:47 AM
Glenn, many thanks for the thoughts. Here are a couple of comments on
the tropo scatter part, that I think relates to the present WSPR 144 and
432 activity.

I think tropo scatter is common in VHF & UHF life.  To see this, we
should ignore the less-than-common case of "ducting" that occurs when a
greater than normal refractive layer exists in the lower troposphere.  
Then the range limit on a smooth Earth is going to be a bit past  the
geometric line-of-sight path. If the two antennas are at 50-ft, this
occurs around 20-miles separation. At least not a whole lot more.  But,
we all know we can beat that by a lot.  We can QSO over hundreds of
miles at VHF.  It is not refraction, difraction or line-of -site, so
only scattering is left.  As you point out, small particle scattering
(like rain drops) greatly favor short wavelengths.  Going back to the
50's, the experts attribute the scattering to larger scale
non-uniformity of the water vapor in the troposphere.  Water vapor,
being a polarized molecule, is the key constituent. Other clams for
dust, insects or other stuff are seen, but it is unlikely to be strongly
involved at VHF or UHF

The scale of the discontinuities determines the wavelengths that have
the greatest scattering. VHF frequencies, such as 144 or 432 have useful
scattering.  It would seem to drop off quite a bit going to HF.

A very useful reference:
J. N. Gannaway, G3YGF, "Tropospheric Scatter Propagation," QST Nov 1983,
p43.  This is a redo of the original article in RSGB RadComm.  It also
shows up in other RSGB and ARRL books.

I do not have a copy, but I have looked at the Proceedings IRE for Oct
1955 in the OSU library,  That had multiple articles on tropo scatter.  
There were other papers around then, as well.  I believe these studies
are the basis for much that followed.

I would like to hold off for a bit on discussing small ice and water
particles that can have huge impact at, say, 10 GHz but very little at
144 or 432.

73, Bob W7PUA


On 07/10/2013 07:49 PM, Glenn Elmore wrote:
> Bob,
> Thanks for your input and comparisons.  I agree that it is beginning
> to look pretty similar, with the exception of the "tropo-scatter"
> mechanism. I confess that I do not understand this. The mechanism I'm
> aware of, and have used on 10 GHz for ~700 km class QSO, matches the
> textbook models for inhomogeneity of oxygen molecules in the upper
> troposphere. However, if I remember correctly, these models favor
> shorter wavelengths and I'm not sure explain 2m or 432 propagation. Do
> you have any references I could peruse to learn more?
>
> As yet, I don't think we've seen this "always there" mode on 2m WSPR.
>
> I totally agree of the importance of take off angle. I've attributed
> the scarcity of Northern California to LA Basin spots both to the lack
> of stations and, when there were stations on, to the mountains near
> the southern end. This may or may not be the case since in years past
> I've worked LA many times on both CW and SSB from here in situations
> requiring a lot better link budget than WSPR demands.
>
> snip...see Glenn's post

Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 7/12/13 10:55 AM
Bob,
Thanks for the references. I do remember finding information on it when
we briefly held the 10 GHz over-terrain (as opposed to water vapor over
water) record in the mid - 1980's. I can't remember what that text was
but it did predict weak, but usable, propagation over the 400 mile path,
which we did observe. I believe they attributed it to oxygen rather than
water molecules.

I know that ionospheric scatter, often attributed to meteoric dust, is
usable at 6m. However, I don't think the density is sufficient to get to
much shorter wavelengths. If tropospheric scattering involving water is
involved, one would think it would occur at much lower altitudes and
that there would be a strong wavelength dependency due to scatterer
density. Maybe your articles will help me with this.

You are correct about pure LOS being much shorter. I think I calculated
it once as "square root of height (miles) * 100"  for the K=4/3
(nominal) index of refraction. But as you say, this doesn't actually
explain much mid to long amateur DX on VHF and up.  People often talk
about "knife edge" diffraction but I believe that has been dis-proven
with measurements at 10 GHz showing the same effect from a rounded
hilltop as from a truly sharp edge. It would seem that straight GTD
(geometric theory of diffraction) is not an adequate explanation for
what we routinely experience.

I'll check the QST reference and also see if I can come up with the IRE
one. Thanks again for providing them.

Glenn n6gn
Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 7/23/13 11:35 AM
Tuesday's seem to creep up on us unexpectedly... ;-)  So, how about Wednesday's for 432 WSPR?  I plan to switch over starting early tomorrow morning (around 7 am PDT).

73, Doug WW6D

Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 7/23/13 11:41 AM
I'm in.  Let's make it "432 Wednesdays" from here on...

Glenn
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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 7/24/13 7:14 AM
N6GN QSY 432.300000 dial as of  1400 UTC 24 July (Wednesday) for 24 hours.

Glenn n6gn

Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 7/30/13 2:15 PM
Just a reminder... WSPR 432 on Wednesday's.  I'll be ready to go around 0600 local time (1300Z) tomorrow morning.

73, Doug WW6D
Re: 432 MHz WSPR N6SKM 8/2/13 9:11 PM
I pulled up email on Wednesday and discovered that I should switch to 432.  It was then that I learned that my 2 meter antenna doesn't work as well on its 3rd harmonic as I thought it did!  My SignaLink was at 0 TX for two weeks while we were on vacation, so when I clicked up a band to 432, nothing was transmitting.  "Oh!" I said... "I need to turn up the TX level."  Wham!  The swr meter rocketed past 3 as I turned the TX knob and then, with even more gain, dropped back down to about 1.5. 
 
Ouch!  I'd always been at full modulation before and hadn't realized that the output stage had totally folded over to protect itself against the mismatch.  I didn't see that until I had eased up through lower power levels where this foldover doesn't happen.

I'm now looking for a combo 2m/70cm antenna.  The Elk 2m/440-L5 looks interesting.
Steve
Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 8/6/13 11:21 AM
RE:  antenna for both 2m and 70cm.  (Steve N6SKM question)

I've been using a Cushcraft Model A27010S (5 elements each band) since March.  SWR was excellent on 2m; Ok on 70cm mainly because I haven't spent the time to tweak it in - still quite acceptable.  I bought mine from DX Engineering.

Since I have the soapbox ;-), don't forgot WSPR 432 tomorrow (Wednesday).

73, Doug WW6D
Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 8/20/13 8:42 PM
Wednesday again tomorrow for 432 - hope to be on around 8 am local time.

73, Doug WW6D

Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 8/28/13 11:15 AM
Three of us on, K6PZB visible on waterfall but not decoding at either N6GN or WW6D.
Glenn n6gn


On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:42:43 PM UTC-7, Doug wrote:
Wednesday again tomorrow for 432 - hope to be on around 8 am local time.

73, Doug WW6D

Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 9/3/13 2:22 PM
A new month and time to try WSPR 432 on Wednesday - hope to hear some of you on.

73, Doug WW6D

Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 9/4/13 9:44 AM
1640Z Good Morning Doug & Glen, for what ever reason I 'am not decoding Doug/WW6D I see him in the water
fall at little weaker than Glen/N6GN who has been about -7db.. Glen/N6GN is not reporting the 432 spots or is
not decoding Me/N6KOG or Doug/WW6D either?
                                                        Steve/N6KOG 

From: Doug <ww6dha...@gmail.com>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 2:22 PM
Subject: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

A new month and time to try WSPR 432 on Wednesday - hope to hear some of you on.

73, Doug WW6D

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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 9/4/13 9:46 AM
I'm not decoding Doug either. Looks OK on the waterfall. 
I think I've lost my Internet connection as the console says n6kog decoding fine.
I'll work on it.
Glenn

On 09/04/2013 09:44 AM, Pamela J. Filicky wrote:
1640Z Good Morning Doug & Glen, for what ever reason I 'am not decoding Doug/WW6D I see him in the water
fall at little weaker than Glen/N6GN who has been about -7db.. Glen/N6GN is not reporting the 432 spots or is
not decoding Me/N6KOG or Doug/WW6D either?
                                                        Steve/N6KOG 

From: Doug <ww6dh...@gmail.com>

To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 2:22 PM
Subject: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

A new month and time to try WSPR 432 on Wednesday - hope to hear some of you on.

73, Doug WW6D

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Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 9/10/13 2:01 PM
Let's try 432 again tomorrow... just a friendly reminder ;-)

73, Doug WW6D

Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 10/1/13 6:43 PM
I plan to be on 432 WSPR for Wednesday Oct 2.   Hope to see some of you on the waterfall!

73, Doug WW6D
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 11/1/13 12:07 AM
I expected to be equipped for 432 MHz WSPR by next week.  

Carol, KP4MD


On Tuesday, October 1, 2013 6:43:01 PM UTC-7, Doug wrote:
I plan to be on 432 WSPR for Wednesday Oct 2.   Hope to see some of you on the waterfall!

73, Doug WW6D
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KD6RF 11/1/13 8:34 AM
I am fooling around letting the station run on 432.3 dial for some hours today as I do some running around.

Antenna VTenn Vivaldi at 22 ft, 6.5 dBi, 45 deg pol, 30 deg elev tilt, pointed due North
IC706 puts out only about 15 W at 432MHz.

I can already see that I need a LNA pre-amp as noise level increase is barely perceptible switching from 50 ohm load to antenna.

Guess it's time to put together all the crap I have laying around here - 100 W amplifier (20-500 MHz), T/R relays, LNA's etc... and make something actually useful for > 2M.


Interestingy, it looks like there is some radar(?) bleed over (or perhaps intemod?) running short bursts at about 6 Hz rep rate.  I see it pop up every once in a while - it doesn't run continously.  Sounds/looks like the old Russian Woodpecker.
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 11/16/13 9:29 AM
A quick out of the box test shows the Down East Microwave L432-28HP 432 MHz transverter does receive and transmit as expected with an indoor antenna.  
Due to other priorities, I expect to take another few weeks to integrate and interface it in the station as I wish with the Flex-1500 exciter.

Carol, KP4MD
Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 11/17/13 7:32 PM
We may be running on 432.3 up here on Wednesday, in case you are still QRU.  I don't think the lack of noise change between a load and the antenna is necessarily indicative of a problem. By 432, QRN has dropped to essential KTB, T=room temperature which makes the noise identical to that coming from a 50 ohm load.   A better test would be to use a (very) directional antenna pointed at a quiet spot in the sky to observe Y factor (hot cold) system noise figure measurement. Unless your feed line is pretty bad, I doubt that a preamp will help the 706 a whole lot and if there are any big signals close by, it might hurt things. 

I wonder if the radar you hearing is PAVE/PAWS, or is that still running?  If that's on the air still, it's possibly another vote for *not* running an external preamp!

I haven't dragged the 1296 transverter out of storage and put it back on yet but John, K6PZB, has an IC910 making QSOs on the band so maybe we should be thinking of even shorter wavelengths.  It will be interesting to see how/if ACS remains usable as the wavelength shortens. I tend to think that on shorter paths, there may be too much associated Doppler shift even though the RCS of the aircraft should remain fully usable and similar ERPs and receive antenna apertures are possible.  I believe we consistently see more ACS spots from the longer 2m paths, e.g. KC6KGE <--> Sonoma County, more frequently then shorter ones because of the reduced Doppler on the associated aircraft routes. However, even if we don't get decodes, it will be fun to compare aircraft related propagation with the longer wavelengths. We see ACS down to 10m and 6m WSPR spots are often full of it. Whether we see as much (and whether it is still on screen in a 200 Hz window!) will be interesting.

Let us know when you are ready for either 432 or 1296 WSPR and I think there may be some up this way ready to try it out with you.

Glenn n6gn

Re: 432 MHz WSPR KD6RF 11/18/13 6:37 AM


On Sunday, November 17, 2013 7:32:28 PM UTC-8, n6gn wrote:
We may be running on 432.3 up here on Wednesday, in case you are still QRU. ....


I have yet to receive the power combiner for the 2x 100 watt bricks, as well as some futzing to do with the T/R switching.  Yes, like a dum-bass, I blew up the old HamTronics LNA already :(      Probably not much of a loss (except for those nice helical filters...)

Judging by SprectrumLab captures, SNR on received FO29 sat signals improves a few dB when I have my other LNA, an AR^2 unit, in line.  Similarly, with the AR^2 preamp in, I do see/hear a small increase in noise between antenna and 50 ohm load, whereas there was no difference using the 706 w/o the AR^2 preamp.  Not huge, but it looks like it's worth a few dB.

Will also be putting antennas back to horizontal, instead of 45 degree V/H, but will retain the 30 elev tilt for sat work.  That should pick up a good 3 dB if EZNEC is to be believed.

This will all prob take a few weeks, and will run with the current non-LNA 20W 45 deg pol system I have now whenever y'all wil be doing 432.
Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 11/19/13 2:41 PM
My Yaesu FT-897 is now operational again, so I'm going to QSY to 432 starting tomorrow.  Hope to copy some of you (and vice versa)!

73, Doug WW6D


On Monday, November 18, 2013 6:37:04 AM UTC-8, KD6RF wrote:

 and will run with the current non-LNA 20W 45 deg pol system I have now whenever y'all wil be doing 432.
Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 11/19/13 5:24 PM
 I hope to be on with the ~100W ERP at 140 degrees. 432.300 dial.

Glenn n6gn
Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 11/20/13 10:02 AM

Nice strong, stable and accurate signals here on 432 this AM. I see N6KOG, WA6M, K6PZB and WW6D. No sign of KD6RF yet on 432.3
...
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 11/20/13 11:56 AM
Hello All - Sorry had to shut down, I got a new radio the flex-6500 having problems working on the phone
with Flexx... The GPS on it works though... hahahaha.        
                                          CUL Steve/N6KOG


From: n6gn <n6...@sonic.net>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 10:02 AM

Subject: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR


Nice strong, stable and accurate signals here on 432 this AM. I see N6KOG, WA6M, K6PZB and WW6D. No sign of KD6RF yet on 432.3
...
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KD6RF 11/20/13 2:40 PM
Well duh...

I spent all morning until now on LSB :(

Now on USB as of 2:40 PM.


Re: 432 MHz WSPR KD6RF 11/20/13 5:58 PM
Tough haul into Livermore.

Can see traces on SpectrumLab, but not good enough to decode.  Saw traces on 120 and 100, as well as fast slope doppler.

I'm guessing I am 4 or 5 dB shy of decodes.

Was also transmitting on 130.

Gunna have to re-arrange the antenna to full horizontal and try next time...
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 11/23/13 2:06 PM
There are new tabs for 432 MHz and 50 MHz on the VHF/UHF Study Station Data spreadsheet.  I copied the 144 MHz matrix to the new tabs and specified frequency, power (and other information gathered from postings) for the stations known to be active on those bands.

Our Station Data list is accessible via http://www.qsl.net/kp4md/144_mhz_wspr.htm#stations or via

Carol KP4MD
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 11/23/13 2:44 PM
Carol,
Thanks for the improvements!  If it isn't difficult and doesn't cause
problems, how about a tab for 1296 as well?  We're not quite there yet
but perhaps close enough to warrant it.

Glenn n6gn
Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 11/25/13 7:03 PM

It's really great to see Joe, KJ6BQA spotting and being spotted accurately and with no drift now.  Looking at the units column of the database is really becoming interesting.  For one thing, when there is something other than a "0" it is almost always accompanied by some reported drift. I think this usually means a crossing ACS term which seems to have the effect of "dragging" WSPR off of 0.  Occasionally it is a large drift from a non-crossing ACS term. 
I think it will be very interesting as more of us with good accuracy start reporting spots on 432.  I think this will help make it more obvious when something is ACS related and when it is "ground wave". Although I am now pretty certain that the longer spots we see between KC6KGE and Sonoma County stations virtually all involve ACS, on 432 there may be additonal offset showing on paths that 2m WSPR would have reported as "right on" and "not drifiting". This should be even more evident if/when we get to 1296 and will help us positively confirm the effect.

If we indeed verify that the long haul is all ACS, and if it is true that we are able to identify the individual aircraft responsible, since we know or can measure our ERP and antenna gains at these low angles, we should be able to come up with our own estimates of the radar cross section of these aircraft vs. plane type.  Even now, we should be able to identify when/where a particular spot is going to occur and perhaps what S/N it will be. In the case of KC6KGE-Sonoma County paths, it appears that a sufficiently large aircraft at 32K or more feet, SE of San Jose roughly on the path between stations can produce the strongest spot on 2m. 747-400's and Airbus'es seem to show up this way. With appropriate ERP and antenna apertures known  for  other bands we should also be able to generate spots there.

Since we could run WSJT just as well as WSPR, I thinks this means that if we want to demonstrate it, we can probably show moderate haul DX QSO on almost any amateur VHF through microwave band.  Perhaps I'm behind the times and the rovers and VHF/UHF DXers are already doing this for contests but if they aren’t', I bet they can.

Glenn n6gn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KC6KGE 11/25/13 7:19 PM
I'd like to be able to devote some WSPR time to the UFH region but I
am not up to it $$$ wise right now. It will be a while. I've got
higher priority on hold a HF project right now.

I've seen VHF JT65A contacts reported on my Twitter stream out of the EU.
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--
____________
Apply appropriate technology. Use what works without prejudice.
Steven L Hess ARS KC6KGE DM05gd22
Owner Flex-1500 and Flex-3000, FT-857D, FT-817ND, FT-450
openSUSE Linux 12.3 KDE
Known as FlameBait and The Sock Puppet of Doom.
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 11/26/13 12:06 AM
Yes, nice to see Joe spot on since 0000 UTC on 11/25/2013. With the cooler weather and decrease in tropo enhancement I've increased 144 MHz Tx power to 50 dBm for a while.  I would like to participate in WSJT skeds wilth others.  The Mirage amplifier appears to be handling the power quite comfortably, yet spots between N6GN and my station are very rare and I suspect we are in an antenna pattern null.

My progress report on 432 MHz...  
  1. This weekend I did some testing on the $5 semi-homebrew 5 element 432 MHz Yagi antenna and discovered a few things that reminded me of my first experiences with UHF back in the 70's... Trying to transmit through a Waters coaxial switch that I had been using on 2 meters introduces an excessively high SWR when used on 432 MHz...so I eliminated that.  
  2. The antenna's gamma match capacitor is a piece of coaxial cable center and dielectric inside an aluminum tube, and the minimum SWR I can achieve is 2:1, and that with the shorting clip closest to the feed point.  I suspect the capacitance needs adjustment and I also question the accuracy of the SWR reading taken with a calibrated WaveNode sensor through an 8 foot length of RG-8A/U.  
  3. As the miniVNA Pro range is 0.1-200 MHz, I'm awaiting delivery of an accessory to extend its operating range to 1500 MHz, so as to measure the Yagi antenna parameters directly at the feed point and adjust it properly.
  4. The Yagi's NEC model over my metal roof estimates an effective gain of 16 dBi and 3 dB beam width of 50°.  The Radio Mobile Online application shows how the expected coverage with a beam heading of 230° may reach Santa Rosa and the San Jose areas admittedly using some optimistic estimates for system loss.   
Carol, KP4MD/6
Citrus Heights, CA
 
 



On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 7:03 PM, n6gn wrote:

It's really great to see Joe, KJ6BQA spotting and being spotted accurately and with no drift now.  Looking at the units column of the database is really becoming interesting.  For one thing, when there is something other than a "0" it is almost always accompanied by some reported drift. I think this usually means a crossing ACS term which seems to have the effect of "dragging" WSPR off of 0.  ....

.....Since we could run WSJT just as well as WSPR, I thinks this means that if we want to demonstrate it, we can probably show moderate haul DX QSO on almost any amateur VHF through microwave band.  Perhaps I'm behind the times and the rovers and VHF/UHF DXers are already doing this for contests but if they aren’t', I bet they can. 

Glenn n6gn


Re: 432 MHz WSPR KD6RF 11/26/13 5:31 AM

Carol –

 

You may want to consider N connectors, or perhaps even SMA if power levels are not too high.

 

I have noticed that PL/SO-259, even at their best, don’t perform all that well at UHF.  At best, they introduce significant reactance, at worst they also introduce loss. 


To make matters worse, there is a now large degree of variation in composition and quality, especially in the cheapo crap that comes out of China.

 

I had an SO/PL-259 elbow in my system that was actually heating up with 90 Watts at  432MHz in an otherwise 1.1 SWR system.  Not good.

 

FWIW, I use PL-259 to BNC adapters at the radio (why do they keep putting SO-259’s on V/UHF radios?).  Then short decent quality BNC between radio and BNC/N adapter at the power meter, then out to the N connectored feedline and antenna.

 

Measurements show that BNC, at least for the cables and adapters that I have, work well up to 432 MHz, pretty good at 915MHz, but not all that great at 1296 MHz and above.

 

I use BNC for convenience, because I use my “ham station” equip for my day job, but you can just as well eliminate the BNC and go direct from PL-259 to N.

 

And, as you know, both the N’s and SMA’s work very well up into the multi GHz range.

dB




On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 12:06:27 AM UTC-8, KP4MD wrote:...

My progress report on 432 MHz...  
  1. This weekend I did some testing...
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 11/26/13 9:38 AM
0936PST Been active for awhile now on 432... see no others. Closing down. Steve/N6KOG

   
  


Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 11/26/13 9:53 AM
Today's only Tuesday!
I think Doug is calling another "432 Wednesday" but I haven't seen the notice yet.
Or am I off a day?
ge


On 11/26/2013 09:38 AM, Pamela J. Filicky wrote:
0936PST Been active for awhile now on 432... see no others. Closing down. Steve/N6KOG

   
  


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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 11/26/13 11:27 AM
Yes - 432 Wednesday!   I plan to be on starting tomorrow (may even get it all going at 00Z and let it run for 24 hours).

And, while I have the soapbox - Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

73, Doug WW6D
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 11/26/13 12:30 PM
hahahaha... I knew that... hahahaha disregard, I'll do it again on the right day...  Steve/N6KOG

From: Glenn Elmore <n6...@sonic.net>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR
Further Equipment Issues lps 11/27/13 11:03 PM

Greetings!

My spotting has been flakey of late and it's not that I didn't spot, it's
related to network equipment malfunctionality.

It appears that my "managed" network switch has developed "Capacitor
Plague" and rapidly became useless over the past week or so.

I have replaced it with and unmanaged switch and once again, I am
uploading spots again.

Happy Thanksgiving  :)

Thank you,
Kevin Martinez
KI6STW

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Line Printer System          |       HODIE NATUS EST RADICI FRATER
  lps at rahul 'dot' net         |             645/6180 BOS/BCE
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KD6RF 11/28/13 7:37 AM

 

Some interesting polarization noted on 70cm yesterday from N6GN to KD6RF/V shown below .

 

(There were also several hits from N6KOG to KD6RF/V, but signal levels were soooo strong from Tracy to Livermore that it probably doesn’t mean much…)

 

VERTICAL POL – 5  total spots from N6GN  to KD6RF

 

 2013-11-28 02:32       N6GN              432.301504     -27       0              CM88ok          10        KD6RF/V         CM97cq          121       133

 2013-11-28 02:24       N6GN              432.301504     -28       0              CM88ok          10        KD6RF/V         CM97cq          121       133

 2013-11-28 02:12       N6GN              432.301504     -26       0              CM88ok          10        KD6RF/V         CM97cq          121       133

 2013-11-27 21:44       N6GN              432.301518     -28       1              CM88ok          10        KD6RF/V         CM97cq          121       133

 2013-11-27 21:14       N6GN              432.301504     -27       1              CM88ok          10        KD6RF/V         CM97cq          121       133

 

(Note that the KD6RF/V receiver is the R7000 “drift box” and is not locked to reference)

 

 

 

 

HORIZONTAL POL – 30 total  spots from N6GN  to KD6RF, 4 of which are accompanied by the Vertical spots shown above:

 

 2013-11-28 02:32       N6GN              432.301499     -24       0              CM88ok          10        KD6RF             CM97cq          121       133

 2013-11-28 02:12       N6GN              432.301500     -23       0              CM88ok          10        KD6RF             CM97cq          121       133

 2013-11-27 21:44       N6GN              432.301500     -23       0              CM88ok          10        KD6RF             CM97cq          121       133

 2013-11-27 21:14       N6GN              432.301500     -23       0              CM88ok          10        KD6RF             CM97cq          121       133

 

432 is cool.  You guys/gals are cool too.  I've had a ham license for 40 years, and these are the first non-repeater contacts on on both 2M and 70 cM for me :)

 

 

dB


Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n3izn 11/28/13 6:35 PM
When I worked for Motorola all those years a go. They used UHF connectors on everything. The 800 Mhz band was new and we found out quickly that a 90 UHF had over 3 db loss on 800 Mhz. And the installers who soldered on PL259 connectors. What would work fine on Low band and high band didn't fly at 800 Mhz. As the new kid I had the opportunity to re do all the PL259 connectors on the mobiles that came in for service. Got good at it.

Motorola eventually switched to Mini UHF, mostly to cut down on installation cost. Their bases on 450 and up used N types.


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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 12/3/13 9:49 AM
Another week has rolled around - so let's try Wednesday 432 again (tomorrow)!

73, Doug WW6D

Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 12/4/13 7:39 AM
My station will not be on 432 today.  
I still have to build and install my 10 MHz reference distribution amplifier to control the Flex-1500 and DEMI L432-28 transverter simultaneously.
I will also try to get the Yagi antenna up this weekend if weather permits.

Carol


On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 9:49:48 AM UTC-8, Doug wrote:
Another week has rolled around - so let's try Wednesday 432 again (tomorrow)!

73, Doug WW6D

Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 12/4/13 11:08 AM
Carol,
Understood. There are lots of things to do to get and keep several WSPR bands running!

So far today I'm seeing WW6D, K6PZB, N6KOG and KD6RF/H.  I'm also seeing, but not decoding something near 530 but having too much drift. I don't see anyone else decoding it so I don't know who it is. It's inside the white circle below...


Anyone know who this is?

Glenn n6gn
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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 12/4/13 11:51 AM
Nope not seeing anything here..  73 Steve/N6KOG

From: Glenn Elmore <n6...@sonic.net>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 12/4/13 6:18 PM
Hello John - I had a visitor at the house and I was moving the beam from the NE were the activity was on 10Mtrs back to where you
all are. That was the reason for the big changes in signal strength. Oh worked LAS Vegas area on 2Mtrs SSB it was 5 by 5 one min next
five mins or so could just tell he was talking.... Might have be the ACS the Glen is going on about dunno I was running 600W and
the other sta over 1KW both with antennas with 15DB of gain....
                                    CUL Regards Steve/N6KOG

From: jwatrous <jwat...@sonic.net>
To: Pamela J. Filicky <psfli...@att.net>
Cc: "n6...@sonic.net" <n6...@sonic.net>; "2-mete...@googlegroups.com" <2-mete...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 12:51 PM

Subject: Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

What about these:

 2013-12-04 19:34  K6PZB  432.301488  -26  0  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120  2013-12-04 19:24  K6PZB  432.301486  -27  0  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120  2013-12-04 18:34  K6PZB  432.301488  -27  0  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120  2013-12-04 17:18  K6PZB  432.301488  -15  0  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120  2013-12-04 17:10  K6PZB  432.301488  -15  0  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120  2013-12-04 16:40  K6PZB  432.301484  -13  0  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120  2013-12-04 16:28  K6PZB  432.301479  -12  1  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120  2013-12-04 16:18  K6PZB  432.301478  -11  0  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120 
John
jwat...@sonic.net
707 360 5496
K6PZB

On Dec 4, 2013, at 11:51, "Pamela J. Filicky" <psfli...@att.net> wrote:

Nope not seeing anything here..  73 Steve/N6KOG

From: Glenn Elmore <n6...@sonic.net>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

Carol,
Understood. There are lots of things to do to get and keep several WSPR bands running!

So far today I'm seeing WW6D, K6PZB, N6KOG and KD6RF/H.  I'm also seeing, but not decoding something near 530 but having too much drift. I don't see anyone else decoding it so I don't know who it is. It's inside the white circle below...
<hbbijcad.png>




Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 12/10/13 7:56 AM
VNA measurements and NEC model analysis of the 432 MHz Yagi that I plan to use in the WSPR propagation study. N6ICW kindly secured me some low-loss Times Microwave LMR-400 coaxial cable to replace my 30 year old Belden 8214 RG-8/U foam cable.  This upgrade for the weak signal VHF/UHF propagation study.

Carol KP4MD



Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 12/10/13 11:02 AM
Sounds like Carol is ready for 432!  Let's try again tomorrow - yes, it's Wednesday again... ;-)

Doug WW6D


On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:56:24 AM UTC-8, KP4MD wrote:
VNA measurements and NEC model analysis of the 432 MHz Yagi that I plan to use in the WSPR propagation study. N6ICW kindly secured me some low-loss Times Microwave LMR-400 coaxial cable to replace my 30 year old Belden 8214 RG-8/U foam cable.  This upgrade for the weak signal VHF/UHF propagation study.

Carol KP4MD

Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 12/10/13 9:57 PM
If time allows this weekend I will lower the antenna mast to replace the old coaxial cables on the 144/440 MHz J-pole and the stacked halos, and mount the new 432 MHz Yagi antenna.  Meanwhile I have started running 432 MHz WSPR at 20 watts with the J-pole and will leave it there through Wednesday.

The GPS10V 10 MHz reference will not drive both the Flex-1500 and the DEMI transverter through a BNC Tee connector, so for now only the DEMI is GPS disciplined and the FLEX-1500 is running off its internal TCXO.  Although wspr-x says I should be on 432.301510 MHz, I guess I may be up to 50 Hz off frequency until I finish building the 10 MHz reference distribution amplifier to achieve full GPS frequency control.

Carol, KP4MD
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 12/11/13 7:37 AM
432 MHz report:  As KD6RF had been spotting me 46 Hz low I raised my Flex-1500 frequency that much at 1514 UTC to be on 432.301510 MHz

11 DEC 2013 - Received WSPR signals on 432.3 MHz with a frequency correction at 15:14 UTC.  The visible traces did not decode and appear to be from N6KOG.



My 432 WSPR spots 
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KD6RF 12/11/13 7:52 AM

Yes - it looks like KOG's big signal, but I see several Hz drift, perhaps 6 or 7 Hz, with nodecode :(
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 12/11/13 8:19 AM
DE N6KOG Yes its me dunno why no one is decoding me....i'll try rebooting  tks steve..


From: KD6RF <benz...@mindspring.com>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 7:52 AM
Subject: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR


Yes - it looks like KOG's big signal, but I see several Hz drift, perhaps 6 or 7 Hz, with nodecode :(
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Re: 432 MHz WSPR KD6RF 12/11/13 8:34 AM
2 hits to Carol's QTH -

2013-12-11 16:26  KD6RF/H  432.301531  -23  0  CM97cq  20  KP4MD  CM98iq  119  21 
2013-12-11 16:24  KD6RF/H  432.301531  -25  0  CM97cq  20  KP4MD  CM98iq  119  21 

Those were both with 80 watts, the most my current power supply can handle.

No T/R switch yet, so it's, back to the measly 15 watts that the IC-706 puts out.




Steve - I think the issue is the drift...
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 12/11/13 10:58 AM
I've been on since last PM. WW6D and K6PZB are of course loud and solid.  N6KOG was also showing up well on my waterfall but, as noted, with too much drift to allow a decode.  I have also rotated the antenna and watched. At 1815 I rotated east towards KP4MD. This puts me pointed correctly but cross-polarized. If the same kind of polarization preservation (non ACS) we've noted on 2m exists on 432, this probably is not a good enough path for WSPR. No spots and nothing visible on the waterfall. At about 1835 I rotated back to 150 degrees to look for KD6RF/h. Nothing there either, even though a transmission was spotted while I was looking. I simply can't see it right now.
I then rotated to 288 and then 270, first looking for WA6M, who I now realize hasn't QSYed to 432 at all, and then to compare K6PZB bore sight.

Generally, signals are there, N6KOG is the best DX and seems strong enough but there isn't a great deal of ACS and I'm surprised not to see anything from KD6RF/h.

Foliage absorption is certainly worse at 432 and some antenna altitude on either end would no doubt help.  I'm charging batteries now and thinking about putting a paper 432 halo (metalized paper) at ~200', fed with a SWTL tether and supported by my quadcopter for next week, weather and time permitting.

Hopefully KP4MD will be horizontally polarized before long too. (I think I'm understanding correctly that signals from their are presently vertical).

Glenn n6gn
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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 12/11/13 11:15 AM
I saw that. Also WW6D has had spots each way. The path from N6GN must have some obstruction that isn't bothering the two of you. An antenna at ~200 might get around this...

Glenn


On 12/11/2013 11:13 AM, jwatrous wrote:
ve this one:

2013-12-11 16:44   KD6RF/H   432.301531   -28   0   CM97cq   20   K6PZB   CM88nk   126   312 


Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 12/11/13 11:50 AM
This may be more detail than anyone cares about but it's interesting to me. Here is a recent screenshot. The antenna is pointed at 140 which is close to correct for KD6RF/h. At that heading, both K6PZB and WW6D are down at about the same angle and off the back. Their signals are down at least 15 dB which is reasonable if the antenna is working.




Notice the "bits of cruft" at 19:26 and 19:38.  This is apparantly brief ACS from KD6RF/h who is too weak, as previously noted, for regular observation or decode, even though WW6D only 4 miles from me is doing OK with it.
What I find interesting is the briefness of the signal peak. This is not what we normally see on 2m. There the scattering seems to be be more like scattering and fairly uniform over the 2 minute WSPR window. Here it is starting to look more like a "glint", a specular (mirrorlike) reflection from some part(s) of the airframe rather than a diffuse reradiation from random discontinuites.  I guess it might make sense that this effect be more pronounced at shorter wavelengths where there are more likely to be significant slabs of aircraft that can act as mirrors. This is what happens with Iridium satellite flares that get very bright for a few seconds and them subside to a much fainter level.  This is also what the VKs were reporting at 10 GHz (at least) when examining what they call AES, aircraft enhanced scattering.

Glenn n6gn
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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 12/11/13 12:18 PM
Yes, last night I quickly hooked up the 432 MHz gear to the vertical Arrow 146/440 J-pole.

As the DEMI transverter appears have fared well with its initial on the air test, I have now raised the transmitter power to 50 watts, 47 dBm and will continue on 432 MHz until about 8 pm tonight when I have net control duties.

Last Saturday I only had time to cut, prepare and test the new coaxial cables.  Holiday and other commitments on Sunday left no time for antenna work.
So we plan to have the 432 MHz Yagi up by this weekend.

Carol, KP4MD
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 12/14/13 9:42 PM
The new Times Microwave LMR 400 coaxial cables and 432 MHz Yagi are up.  I rotated the 144 MHz stacked halo antennas toward the east and mounted the Yagi facing 230°.
I plan to test the 432 MHz Yagi on the 7 pm Sunday SSB net on 432.1 MHz and for sure on Wednesday WSPR.

I would not be surprised to see a dB or so decrease in my 2 meter WSPR spots toward the SF Bay area after 15 DEC 2013 0500 UTC now that the 144 MHz stacked halo antennas are on the opposite side of the mast.  Perhaps that may be compensated by the lower loss of the new coaxial cable.

Carol KP4MD

14 DEC 2013 - Today I replaced the Belden 8214 coaxial cable on the Arrow OSJ 146/440 J-pole and stacked halo antennas with new Times Microwave LMR-400 cable.  The halo antennas were rotated to the east side of the mast and the new 5 element 432 MHz Yagi mounted at 240° bearing.


14 DEC 2013 - View of the Arrow OSJ 146/440 J-pole (at 20 feet), the top 2 meter halo antenna of the stacked pair (at 18 feet), and the 5 element 432 MHz Yagi antenna (at 17 feet).



View from below: the 144 MHz stacked halo antennas face east, the 5 element 432 MHz Yagi antenna facing 240°. and the Arrow OSJ 146/440 J-pole at the top.
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 12/16/13 8:16 AM
Carol - nice photos and setup.  Looks like there could be a lot of participation this Wednesday on 432!  See you all then.

73, Doug WW6D
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 12/16/13 10:51 PM

I successfully checked into the Northern California 432 SSB Net on 432.100 MHz at 1900 PST on Sunday night and also listened carefully as 1 kW net control station KG6HXI in Wilton CA swung her large Yagi antenna calling for check ins around the compass points.  I heard some weak SSB signals at or below the noise level from the north and south SF bay area.  This suggests that 432 MHz WSPR contacts are possible from Sacramento to those areas.

The attached Radio Mobile coverage map for my 5 element 432 MHz Yagi with a fixed 230° bearing shows the 3 dB beamwidth extending from near Santa Rosa to San Jose on the Pacific Coast.  The coastal ranges present a formidable obstacle for this radio circuit.  My WSPR station will be on 432.301510 MHz from Tuesday night through Wednesday.

Carol KP4MD
Citrus Heights, CA


The Yagi's NEC model over my metal roof estimates an effective gain of 16 dBi and 3 dB beam width of 50°.  The Radio Mobile Online application shows how the expected coverage with a beam heading of 230° may reach Santa Rosa and the San Jose areas admittedly using some optimistic estimates for system loss.  




On Monday, December 16, 2013 8:16:47 AM UTC-8, Doug wrote:
Carol - nice photos and setup.  Looks like there could be a lot of participation this Wednesday on 432!  See you all then.

73, Doug WW6D
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 12/18/13 5:58 PM
18 DEC 2013 update - This Propagation map shows 432 MHz WSPR contacts achieved over the Pacific Coast ranges with 50 watts and 5 element Yagi antenna at 17 feet at KP4MD station near Sacramento, California.

I suspect that the FLEX-1500 receiver sensitivity may be compromised by periods of increased noise floor from loss of image rejection as has been reported in other units.  My initial inquiry with FlexRadio suggested this may require a hardware fix at the factory which I may pursue if I confirm this.

Carol, KP4MD
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 12/31/13 11:58 AM
Happy New Year!  And yes, tomorrow is Wednesday, so if you're up for it, QSY to 432.

Vy 73, Doug WW6D

Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 1/1/14 9:03 AM
Good WSPR traces from N6KOG but no one else this morning.
But no signals either from the W6ER beacon in Sausalito. 
Apparently propagation is different since last week.

Carol KP4MD
Citrus Heights, CA

Happy New Year


On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 11:58:15 AM UTC-8, Doug wrote:
Happy New Year!  And yes, tomorrow is Wednesday, so if you're up for it, QSY to 432.

Vy 73, Doug WW6D

Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 1/1/14 9:13 AM
I was "on" since last night but discovered that I had stolen the 432 antenna for other testing and I only had the 2m antenna the wrong way through the diplexer to radiate on. Still WW6D did spot me weakly.  I've fixed that problem so maybe things will change. K6ER is always pretty weak at ground level here. I don't know that there is any noticeable change.
Maybe even numbered years are different from odd? :-)

Glenn n6gn
Santa Rosa, CA
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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 1/5/14 9:45 PM
It looks like Bruce has added 70 cm and 23 cm to both the WSPRnet.org map and database. That will be a great help!
Glenn n6gn




Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 1/6/14 9:49 AM
Perhaps my snail mail letter sent to Bruce last month nudged him to do this??
However, the search engine on the old database page that works with the spreadsheet macro still does not function on 70 cm and above.

Carol KP4MD

Dr. Carol F. Milazzo, KP4MD
406 Sunrise Ave, Suite 280
Roseville, CA 95661
 
December 18, 2013
 
Bruce Walker, W1BW
426 Strawberry Hill Rd
Concord, MA  01742
 
 
Dear Mr. Walker,
 
Increasing numbers of amateur radio operators who use WSPR to study UHF and microwave propagation phenomena would appreciate if the drop down selections for UHF and higher bands on the WSPR Spot database page would become functional.   
 
The listed drop down selections for 125cm, 70cm and GHz on the WSPR Spot database page http://wsprnet.org/olddb do not function to retrieve spots for those bands.
 
Although ours and the Australian WSPR study groups regularly upload 432 MHz spots to the database, the search http://wsprnet.org/olddb?mode=html&band=432 retrieves none of those spots.
 
Could you please arrange to correct the necessary code to allow database searches on these bands?

Sincerely,
 
 
 
Dr. Carol F. Milazzo, KP4MD/6
Northern California VHF/UHF WSPR Study Group

 



On Sunday, January 5, 2014 9:45:55 PM UTC-8, n6gn wrote:
It looks like Bruce has added 70 cm and 23 cm to both the WSPRnet.org map and database. That will be a great help!
Glenn n6gn




RE: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR Leigh Rainbird 1/6/14 5:36 PM
Its good to see this and 23cm available.
It has given me the extra incentive needed to begin orgainising parts to GPS lock my IC910.
Ive already ordered the board required for the IC910 to accept the 10 MHz ref signal. Now just looking for a suitable GPS reference.
 
Leigh VK2KRR
 

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 09:49:36 -0800
From: kp...@cfmilazzo.com
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
CC: n6...@sonic.net
Subject: Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR
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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 1/6/14 6:14 PM
As long as the loop bandwidth of the external 10 MHz reference circuitry on the board isn't so high that it actually degrades the radio's spectral purity, you might consider using a rubidium reference too.  The used price for these has climbed slightly but I think they may still be available for under US$100.  It appears that cell sites, which normally have at least one of these, cycle through them every 10 years or so.  This means that on the order of 25-50 thousand of these go into the surplus market every year.
Once set (they may be quite close as received) they are likely to stay put just fine without further tweaking.  Their short term stability (wider band phase noise) is not as good as quartz but their long term characteristics are excellent.

Just a thought...
Glenn n6gn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 1/7/14 6:10 PM
Your weekly reminder... Wednesday WSPR 432.

Hope to see your signals!
73, Doug WW6D
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 1/7/14 11:44 PM
I spent the weekend handwiring a transverter selector board which now eliminates the chore of swapping multiple cables when changing bands.  But I haven't yet cut the coax stub trap to reduce receiver overload from local broadcast stations.  So I'm back on 432 MHz as last week but now with GPSDO on both the Flex-1500 and DEMI XVTR and hope to have the RFI issue improved by next week.  Nice to see WSPRnet showing us on the 432 map!

Carol





On 01/03/2014 07:23 AM, Carol F. Milazzo, KP4MD/W6 wrote:
Dear Glenn,

According to the attached plots of signal strengths from fmfool.com and www.tvfool.com the worst offender here would be KKDO-FM on 94.7 MHz with predicted +1.4 dBm signal strength.  This short video indicates the relative signal strengths of FM stations I receive from that tower.

Carol


On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 11:07 PM, Glenn Elmore <n6...@sonic.net> wrote:
Carol,
A shunt piece of open line might do it, but the Q probably isn't all that high and it may be hard to get simultaneous low insertion loss at 432 and good attenuation at 518. 

Glenn



On 01/02/2014 10:15 PM, Carol F. Milazzo, KP4MD/W6 wrote:
Dear Glenn,

As you pointed out, I had mistakenly assumed the helical filters would be on the input to the preamp.  Thanks for scrutinizing the tiny schematic.

Your filter suggestion seems logical as I recall my cheap USB dongle receiver was deafened with severe overload until I placed an FM trap on its antenna input.  Open 1/4 wave coax stub notch filters to null out one or both broadcast stations may be an expeditious fix simply accomplished with the aid of the miniVNA.

Carol





Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 1/14/14 7:49 PM
Short notice reminder... tomorrow is 432 day.  Hope to decode some of you... 

73, Doug WW6D
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 1/15/14 10:43 PM
Conditions seem to be nominal with six stations spotting and being spotted
KP4MD, N6KOG, KD6RF/H, WW6D, N6GN, K6PZB
and KD6RF/V receive only

432 WSPR continues to be interesting, not the least because of the nature of ACS. Below is a screenshot with KP4MD, K6PZB showing up during the 70cm hops at N6GN. Carol's signal at 5:52 is interesting on at least two counts. The ACS moves through very  rapidly, as is expected for 70cm. The slope of the trace is 3 times that of what is normally  seen on 2m.  But I also see some AM on the ACS signal. That is, it is not uniform during the interval in the same way I'm used to seeing on 2m.  I wonder if this implies that the aircraft involved have relatively flat surfaces that are large enough, in terms of a wavelength at 70 cm, to start to give us specular reflections - the "Aircraft Enhanced Scatter" or AES, as the VK's have termed it. It appears to be 10 or more dB stronger than the weaker trace which fits what I've seen described. I think at 10 GHz they felt they saw a 10-20 dB of improvement relative to random scattering (ACS), which wasn't generally strong enough to provide QSO.  With WSPR we seem able to view both and I expect if the slope due to the change in path length were removed by software or some other way, both would be suitable for QSO using WSJT modes. As we go shorter in wavelength the chances of getting offset frequency spots diminishes since it requires more precise and stable aircraft vectors.

This "glinlting" reminds me a bit of variation we see in man-made satellite  brightness that as satellites (or space junk) rotate and provide more and then less flat surface properly oriented for us on the ground to see the sun's reflection.

Anyone else notice this?

Glenn n6gn



Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 1/21/14 2:52 PM
432 Wednesday again tomorrow (Jan 22) -- see you on the waterfall ;-)

Doug WW6D
Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 1/28/14 3:59 PM
The weekly (or perhaps weakly propagating...;-) reminder:  432 Wednesday.  Hope to decode some of you then,

73, Doug WW6D
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 1/30/14 8:40 AM
The WSPRnet server was offline from 0115 to 1350 UTC and now is erratically hanging.  
Also, the manual spot uploader is failing.  
W1BW says he cannot attend to it until he gets off work.

Carol KP4MD


On Tuesday, January 28, 2014 3:59:59 PM UTC-8, Doug wrote:
The weekly (or perhaps weakly propagating...;-) reminder:  432 Wednesday.  Hope to decode some of you then,

73, Doug WW6D
Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 2/5/14 7:20 AM
I realize a bit short notice - but today is Wednesday and time for 432 WSPR!  Perhaps I should assume that everyone knows this by now... ;-)

73, Doug WW6D
Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 2/11/14 6:24 PM
432 Wednesday again... I'm sure by now that many of you are accustomed to this weekly reminder (annoyed?), so I'll relent and leave it to your own calendar program for future reminders ;-).

73, Doug WW6D
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 3/7/14 11:10 PM
My 432 MHz transverter is again ready for WSPR operation after Down East Microwave repaired a broken chip capacitor used to balance drive levels in the local oscillator multiplier.

Carol, 


On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 6:24:56 PM UTC-8, Doug wrote:
432 Wednesday again... I'm sure by now that many of you are accustomed to this weekly reminder (annoyed?), so I'll relent and leave it to your own calendar program for future reminders ;-).

73, Doug WW6D
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 3/12/14 9:48 PM
No spots here on 432 MHz since 2210 UTC today.  The Hepburn forecast map shows ZERO tropo enhancement in SF-Sacramento area until tomorrow.

Also, the KJ6KO CW Beacon is again heard on 432.281 MHz with 50 watts into 4 HO loops from Bald Mountain.

Carol, KP4MD

2
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 3/12/14 10:30 PM
Only  three spots of KP4MD by N6GN in last 24 hours and those were -27 or -28 in the AM.  Seems weaker than it was in previous weeks.

The normal IC706 used at N6GN for VHF has lost its PA on 2m and 70cm.  Temporarily on a backup radio until failure identified and repairs can be made.

Glenn


On 03/12/2014 09:48 PM, KP4MD wrote:
No spots here on 432 MHz since 2210 UTC today.  The Hepburn forecast map shows ZERO tropo enhancement in SF-Sacramento area until tomorrow.

Also, the KJ6KO CW Beacon is again heard on 432.281 MHz with 50 watts into 4 HO loops from Bald Mountain.

Carol, KP4MD



Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 4/10/14 7:07 AM
This spring weather brought improved propagation this Wednesday on 432 MHz WSPR.  Last night using two stacked 144 MHz HO loop antennas, KI6STW in Milpitas, CA spotted WW6D 85 miles away in Santa Rosa, CA from 0332-0356 UTC and KP4MD 92 miles away in Citrus Heights, CA (and over a formidable 2,700 foot ridge) from 0708-1222 UTC.  The times and patterns of rising and falling SNRs suggests a phenomenon of sequential directionally focused tropospheric ducting in these two directions.  The Hepburn tropospheric ducting maps from 0000 through 1200 UTC show an increase of tropo enhancement through the Carquinez Strait into the Sacramento Valley during that period. 

Carol, KP4MD, Citrus Heights, CA CM98iq

9 spots:

TimestampCallMHzSNRDriftGridPwrReporterRGridkmaz
 2014-04-10 12:22  KP4MD  432.301510  -29  0  CM98iq  50  KI6STW  CM97bk  148  200 
 2014-04-10 10:00  KP4MD  432.301510  -26  0  CM98iq  50  KI6STW  CM97bk  148  200 
 2014-04-10 09:32  KP4MD  432.301510  -25  0  CM98iq  50  KI6STW  CM97bk  148  200 
 2014-04-10 08:44  KP4MD  432.301510  -30  0  CM98iq  50  KI6STW  CM97bk  148  200 
 2014-04-10 08:32  KP4MD  432.301510  -28  0  CM98iq  50  KI6STW  CM97bk  148  200 
 2014-04-10 07:08  KP4MD  432.301510  -23  0  CM98iq  50  KI6STW  CM97bk  148  200 
 2014-04-10 03:56  WW6D  432.301520  -28  0  CM88pl  20  KI6STW  CM97bk  137  148 
 2014-04-10 03:44  WW6D  432.301520  -25  0  CM88pl  20  KI6STW  CM97bk  137  148 
 2014-04-10 03:32  WW6D  432.301520  -28  0  CM88pl  20  KI6STW  CM97bk  137  148 






Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 5/20/14 7:14 PM
Now back on 432.301510 MHz WSPR

We have unusual tropospheric conditions today--a winter storm warning for the Sierra Nevada.  
Hepburn predicts a brief period of tropospheric ducting over the SF Bay area from 1200-1800 UTC on 21 May then again after 0600 UTC on 22 May.


Carol, KP4MD

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SACRAMENTO CA
309 PM PDT Tue May 20 2014

.Synopsis...
Cool and unsettled weather pattern continues today with showers and thunderstorms possible across most of interior Northern
California. The higher elevations of the northern Sierra Nevada and Lassen National Park may see some accumulating snow. The
shower and thunderstorm threat is greatest from Lassen National Park and down to Sierra and along the east side of the valley
this afternoon and evening and again tomorrow. Warmer and drier conditions return to the region by the end of the week. Cooler
temperatures expected Memorial Day into early next week.

&&

.Discussion...
Upper level low moving southeast through California today. The center of the low is over the San Joaquin Valley this afternoon.
Showers and isolated thunderstorms are forming over Northern California this afternoon. The storms are moving to the southwest
with wrap around the low. The best chance of showers and thunderstorms is over the east side of the Sacramento Valley and
adjacent mountains. Snow levels have increased this afternoon to around 7000 ft and higher. Periods of heavy snow are possible with
the stronger showers. Precipitation amounts will be variable due to the convective nature. Showers and thunderstorms should
decrease after sunset. Scattered showers and slight chance of thunderstorms again tomorrow afternoon over the Sierra. The threat
moves to the Sierra south of 50 on Thursday as the low moves off to the southeast.


Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 6/5/14 12:44 AM
I've been pondering why I easily copied the 2 watt K6ER CW beacon this morning but no spots from either K6PZB or KI6STW at KP4MD, and K6PZB and KI6STW frequently spot each other. Google Earth maps show although the distances of all these paths are comparable, there are major differences in their elevation profiles.

Highest elevations
K6PZB-KP4MD path = 2316 feet
K6PZB-KI6STW path = 1399 feet
K6ER-KP4MD path = 609 feet
KI6STW-KP4MD path = 1381 feet

The K6PZB-KI6STW path has a single 1399 feet peak for knife edge refraction whereas the path from KP4MD to either K6PZB or KI6STW had multiple high peaks, and no high peaks between KP4MD and the K6ER beacon.


Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 6/25/14 8:59 AM

Excellent signal enhancement from N6GN in Santa Rosa this morning while the K6ER CW beacon signal in Sausalito is not seen here in Citrus Heights, CA.  de KP4MD

PowerReportedDistance
DateCallFrequencySNRDriftGriddBmW
bylockmmi
 2014-06-25 15:44  N6GN  432.301500  -10  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83 
 2014-06-25 15:32  N6GN  432.301500  -10  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83 
 2014-06-25 14:58  N6GN  432.301500  -11  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83 
 2014-06-25 14:46  N6GN  432.301500  -8  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83 
 2014-06-25 14:02  N6GN  432.301500  -9  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83 
 2014-06-25 13:42  N6GN  432.301500  -11  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83 
 2014-06-25 11:52  N6GN  432.301500  -15  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83 
 2014-06-25 11:44  N6GN  432.301500  -17  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83 
 2014-06-25 11:36  N6GN  432.301500  -16  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83 
 2014-06-25 10:58  N6GN  432.301500  -16  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83 
 2014-06-25 10:18  N6GN  432.301500  -16  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83 
 2014-06-25 09:54  N6GN  432.301500  -16  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83 
 2014-06-25 09:46  N6GN  432.301500  -16  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83 
 2014-06-25 09:02  N6GN  432.301500  -18  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83 
 2014-06-25 08:22  N6GN  432.301500  -18  0  CM88ok  +47  50.119  KP4MD  CM98iq  133  83

N6GN signal at 1544 UTC on 432.301500 MHz copied at KP4MD (the secondary peak is aircraft scatter)

Panadapter display during the 1544 UTC WSPR spot.
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 6/26/14 12:59 PM
Composite plots of 432 MHz WSPR SNR vs. hour of day for signals between N6GN and KP4MD demonstrate abrupt signal enhancement to KP4MD at 13:42 UTC one hour after local sunrise and peaking at 1800 UTC and a secondary lesser period of enhancement commencing at 23:42 through 01:38 UTC.  
Local sunrise was at 12:43 UTC and sunset at 03:34 UTC
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 6/27/14 7:41 AM
These patterns should be of interest to contesters too.  Interesting that early morning and later afternoon are preferred. This actually matches my experience (from very long ago!). Nice to see it showing up here.
Another strong spot this morning, the strongest yet:
 2014-06-27 13:44   N6GN   144.490500   -5   0   CM88ok   50   KP4MD   CM98iq   133   78 

Hepburn indicating some increased liklihood but the better forecast is for Sunday AM along the coast. This might be a good time for N3IZN and WA6M to try 432 WSPR.

Glenn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n3izn 6/28/14 10:35 AM
Just switched to 432 WSPR at 17:30. Will run until 20:00 or so. JH1GYE will be on 6 and I'm a sucker for the DX.

If Sunday AM is an option let me know times?

73
CHris


-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Elmore <n6...@sonic.net>
To: 2-meter-wspr <2-mete...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: wa6m <bo...@mcn.org>
Sent: Fri, Jun 27, 2014 7:41 am
Subject: Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n3izn 6/28/14 10:36 AM

PS I'm on 520, if you prefer me to QSY let me know.
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n3izn 6/28/14 1:27 PM
OK I switched to 50 Mhz at 19:58.

Was following the spots of K6PZB and N6GN looking for something during the TX periods but nada.

I noticed there would be long gaps with no reports. Is that when your TX periods synced up? ACS confused WSPR?

Its real quiet on 432, I have a SSB mast head preamp around here some where. I'll have to dig it up.

Station here is Kenwood TS-2000 with the VK3HZ ref lock. ~75 watt brick amp. The yagi is the old school boomer, with the 3 reflectors. I think 21 elements, fed with Andrew LDF5 and LMR400 going around the rotor. Elevation is about 52'.

I've had very little activity on 432 so I don't know how well it works. Can work work K7WLF at 170 miles with no problem.

N3IZN



-----Original Message-----
From: n3izn via 2 Meter WSPR <2-mete...@googlegroups.com>
To: 2-meter-wspr <2-mete...@googlegroups.com>
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR lps 6/28/14 1:53 PM
On Sat, 28 Jun 2014, n3izn via 2 Meter WSPR wrote:

> Was following the spots of K6PZB and N6GN looking for something during the TX periods but nada.
> I noticed there would be long gaps with no reports. Is that when your TX periods synced up? ACS confused WSPR?
> Its real quiet on 432, I have a SSB mast head preamp around here some where. I'll have to dig it up.


It's been quiet here too - since my last spot of N6GN at 15:50 UTC - about
5 hours ago.   I'm not sure if conditions made the signals fade or
something else is going on.

Looking over the spot database, it appears that K6PZB was spotted by N6GN
at 19:08 UTC - almost two hours ago.

My WSPR app display currently shows no hint of signals ............

I'm also using 2 meter antennas so my radio is squinting through wax paper
anyway - the band seems blurry and quiet.

Kevin Martinez
KI6STW









I>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Line Printer System          |       HODIE NATUS EST RADICI FRATER
  lps at rahul 'dot' net         |             645/6180 BOS/BCE
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 6/29/14 7:56 AM
I've been running for the last 36 hours. Until recently the last 12 of
that was favoring N3IZN but with no spots. This isn't too surprising
considering the size and height of the antenna. I haven't done a link
analysis with the estimated radar cross section of a commercial
aircraft, but I think we're a little bit short, even with good take off
angles at each end.  The 432 antenna is only ~ 10 dBi.

I just turned a bit further south and spots of N6GN by KI6STW have come
up around 3 dB.  I'm not sure if that will be enough for me to provide a
spot or not. K6PZB has a bit more antenna than N6GN which is probably
why Kevin is getting spotted by him better than N6GN.

Kevin, are you *sure* you don't want to put an actual 432 antenna on in
place of the 2m antenna?  I'm quite sure that the price is right and I
bet we can make it all run up the existing coax so installation
shouldn't be too hard.

Glenn n6gn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n3izn 6/29/14 9:18 AM
OK I checked the data base for TX periods and then the water fall I didn't see a hint of a trace.

While scrummaging for parts for the remote base (which I made a lot of progress yesterday btw) I found my SSB-7000 preamp. I hooked it up to the sequencer and it appears to work. It's at the shack side of the hardline. Don't think it will get me much more if I put it at the tower side, but I might get a wild hair one day.

Any ways a quick check verifies an addition 20 db of gain. and .6 db insertion loss. Still no S meter movement. I'm back on 432 WSPR for a while.

Maybe drift away and look for a beacon.

73
Chris
N3IZN


-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Elmore <n6...@sonic.net>
To: 2-meter-wspr <2-mete...@googlegroups.com>
>
>> Sent: Fri, Jun 27, 2014 7:41 am
>> Subject: Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR
>>
>>
>>
>>    These patterns should be of interest to contesters too. 
>> Interesting    that early morning and later afternoon are preferred. 
>> This actually    matches my experience (from very long ago!). Nice to 
>> see it showing    up here.
>>    Another strong spot this morning, the strongest yet:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-06-27 13:44
>>
>> N6GN
>>
>> 144.490500
>>
>> -5
>>
>> 0
>>
>> CM88ok
>>
>> 50
>>
>> KP4MD
>>
>> CM98iq
>>
>> 133
>>
>> 78
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    Hepburn indicating some increased liklihood but the better 
>> forecast    is for Sunday AM along the coast. This might be a good 
>> time for    N3IZN and WA6M to try 432 WSPR.
>>
>>    Glenn
>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR lps 6/29/14 1:02 PM
On Sun, 29 Jun 2014, Glenn Elmore wrote:

> Kevin, are you *sure* you don't want to put an actual 432 antenna on in place
> of the 2m antenna?  I'm quite sure that the price is right and I bet we can
> make it all run up the existing coax so installation shouldn't be too hard.

I've been wanting a real 70 cm antenna for months.  My efforts toward
making this possible have only raised my existing antennas while making
them have a life that many critters could envy.  They get blown around
considerably.

After re-learning some things about antenna masts made of telescoping
components with additional extensions, I should have deployed three layers
of guy wires placed at three of the joints. I have most of the parts but
I'm still trying to figure out where the guy wires should go in a place I
can't dig, drill, or modify the building. There's a lemon tree and a
wooden fence post but I need a third one............. still looking.

Kevin Martinez
KI6STW
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 6/29/14 6:33 PM
I've been back on 2m and 432 MHz since 2248 UTC.  With N6GN's antenna toward Milpitas I only copy occasional ACS of Glenn's signal (like at 0052 in this photo).  It appears we may have difficulty spotting stations from various directions at distance, although I had spotted stations within the - 3 dB beamwidth with my current bearing of 230° 

Carol



>> To: 2-meter-wspr <2-mete...@googlegroups.com>
>> Cc: wa6m <>
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 7/29/14 9:37 PM
Hopping 2 meters and 432 MHz again tonight.  de KP4MD
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 8/6/14 9:12 AM
Join us again today on 432 MHz WSPR!  or did we switch to Saturdays?  de KP4MD


On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:37:20 PM UTC-7, KP4MD wrote:
Hopping 2 meters and 432 MHz again tonight.  de KP4MD
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR Doug 8/12/14 5:32 PM
Back on 432 again tomorrow (Wednesday) - hope to hear some of you!  73, Doug WW6D

Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 11/4/14 7:37 PM
Join us now on 432 MHz WSPR Wednesday

Carol KP4MD


Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 11/11/14 7:17 PM
Join us now on 432.300000 MHz WSPR!

Carol KP4MD/6
Citrus Heights, CA


Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 11/12/14 4:36 AM

There's plenty of activity on 432.300000 MHz WSPR today!  
WA6ZTY on a hilltop in Arnold, CA is receiving with a gain vertical antenna at 90'.
Arnold is at 4000 feet elevation in the Sierra Nevada between Lake Tahoe and Yosemite. 

Carol, KP4MD

Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 11/18/14 10:38 PM
Join us now for 432.300 WSPR Wednesday!

KP4MD


Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 11/25/14 9:35 PM
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 12/23/14 6:47 PM
Join us now on 432.300 MHz WSPR Wednesday!

Carol KP4MD


Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR K6PZB 12/24/14 10:08 AM
Sorry for all my fake DX this morning.
I hope it is now fixed.

John. K6 PZB

jwat...@sonic.net
707 360 5496
K6PZB

On Dec 23, 2014, at 18:47, KP4MD <kp...@cfmilazzo.com> wrote:

Join us now on 432.300 MHz WSPR Wednesday!

Carol KP4MD


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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 12/24/14 10:15 AM
Well if I said, I never reported spots on the wrong band I would be a liar...Merry Christmas Steve/N6KOG
Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 1/13/15 7:24 PM
WW6D, K6PZB and N6GN all presently on 432.300 (dial). N6GN beaming toward Citrus heights ~ 80 degrees.

Glenn n6gn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 1/13/15 7:31 PM

Kp4md will be on 432 around 9 pm

On Jan 13, 2015 7:24 PM, "n6gn" <n6...@sonic.net> wrote:
WW6D, K6PZB and N6GN all presently on 432.300 (dial). N6GN beaming toward Citrus heights ~ 80 degrees.

Glenn n6gn

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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n3izn 1/14/15 10:12 AM
N3IZN joined at ~18:00

1st TX was at 18:10

I'll leave it up till the salt mine calls. Then back to 144 RX


-----Original Message-----
From: Carol F. Milazzo, KP4MD/W6 <kp...@cfmilazzo.com>
To: Glenn Elmore N6GN <n6...@sonic.net>
Cc: 2-meter-wspr <2-mete...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 13, 2015 7:31 pm
Subject: Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 1/14/15 11:20 AM
N6GN rotating toward ~160 at 1930 to look for KI6STW (and very doubtfully be spotted by N3IZN).
Glenn



On 01/14/2015 10:12 AM, n3izn via 2 Meter WSPR wrote:
N3IZN joined at ~18:00

1st TX was at 18:10

I'll leave it up till the salt mine calls. Then back to 144 RX


-----Original Message-----
From: Carol F. Milazzo, KP4MD/W6 <kp...@cfmilazzo.com>

Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 1/20/15 11:18 PM
432 MHz WSPR Wednesday is on the air!

Carol, KP4MD


Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 1/21/15 10:37 AM
ATTN Santa Rosa Group - Keep in mind I do have these two 432MHZ 28 element beams over here, if you all chip in, you can get one & cut it up in three pieces & each use one...
hahaha Regards Steve/N6KOG


On Tuesday, January 20, 2015 11:18 PM, KP4MD <kp...@cfmilazzo.com> wrote:


432 MHz WSPR Wednesday is on the air!

Carol, KP4MD


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Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 1/27/15 10:44 PM
432 MHz Wednesday is on!

Carol, KP4MD


A First Look at the Wsprlinux.exe application lps 2/2/15 12:19 PM

As seen on wsprnet:

http://wsprnet.org/drupal/node/5277

and:

http://www.dj0abr.de/english/technik/dds/wsprbanana_x_luxus.htm

It is wspr application for linux.  I built it and got it to run as wspr
application that successfully receives.  The transmitting side looks
interesting.........

I tested it on 40m, 30m and 2m today.


150202 1404   6 -23 -0.2 144.490488  K6PZB CM88 47           0     1    0
150202 1404   8 -18 -2.2 144.490518  WW6D CM88 37            0     1    0

Not sure why these spots show the frequency low.

I've attached some images of the application running.  The image of the
map will look funny, the maps looked much better after I restarted the
application.   It does have some potential...

I found the build instructions didn't list these required tools:

autoconf
libtool
automake
m4

In addition, building the "mono" suite of tools wound up consuming 2.2GB
of space while building but installed less than 200MB.  I found that the
"make" command needed some help to work because my "mcs" tool was tooo
old.   From the mono documents, I found that replacing the "make" step
with the following lines allowed a working "mono" suite of tools to be
built:


make get-monolite-latest
make EXTERNAL_MCS=${PWD}/mcs/class/lib/monolite/basic.exe

Because I use a Signalink USB audio device, I had to create a new
~/.asoundrc file:

pcm.!default {
type hw
card 2
device 0
}
ctl.!default {
type hw
card 2
}

This doesn't work with the wspr 4.0 app so I have to switch back and forth
between my ~/.asoundrc files until I learn how to make it all work in one
file.

There are a few extras... the wsprlinux.exe application fetches the
monthly wspr spots files and crunches them for the users callsign. It can
be configured to show images from qrz for the spotted stations......

I've put every back to "normal" and running wspr 4.0 r4889 again.

73
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} A First Look at the Wsprlinux.exe application n6gn 2/2/15 12:24 PM
I saw the post about this and also was intrigued. I'm glad you got to
try it.  The frequency problem looks like the same 2 Hz error we've
noted that has plagued recent builds. Yet the list in one of your shots
seems OK.  Maybe it doesn't have the error after all.
UI look pretty interesting.

If you test it more and come to a conclusion let us know what you think
after trying it for a bit...

Glenn
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 2/3/15 6:59 PM
Join us now on 432.300 MHz WSPR Wednesday!

Carol KP4MD
Citrus Heights, CA


Second Look at Wsprlinux.exe & 432 MHz WSPR lps 2/4/15 7:09 PM

Greetings,

To learn more about the Wsprlinux.exe application, the 432 MHz WSPR
Wednesday allowed me the opportunity to spot some 432.3 MHz signals using
both the "normal" wspr 4.0 and the wsprlinux.exe applications.

To make the output of each application have some unique data, I have
changed my callsign entered into wsprlinux.exe as "KI6STWRW".

Spotting myself with wsprlinux.exe while wspr4.0 was transmitting was a
432.301458 MHz, not the expected 432.301470 MHz.   When I was able to spot
another 432.3 MHz user other than me -Carol KP4MD- allowed both
wsprlinux.exe and wspr4.0 to spot the same signal at the same time.

As expected, wspr 4.0 always spotted KP4MD at 432.301510 MHz. However, the
exact same signal at the same time was always spotted at 432.301498 MHz by
wsprlinux.exe.

In the cases of KI6STW and KP4MD 432.3 MHz signals, wsprlinux.exe always
spotted them 12 Hz lower than spots from wspr 4.0.  Because this
difference was so consistent, I looked back over the data gathered
previously from 2 meter wspr spots.  In those cases in which I had spotted
those signals with wspr 4.0 and wsprlinux.exe, the wsprlinux.exe spots
frequency were generally 2 Hz lower than the wspr 4.0.  (I hadn't taken
measures to ensure the comparison was an exact comparison during the
previous "First Look" from two days ago...


My dinosaur brayne wants me to think that if the 432.3 MHz signals are
being spotted 12 Hz low, then the 144.4905 MHz spots should be 33% x 12 Hz
= 4 Hz low...... But they don't seem to be 4Hz low, only 2Hz...

I'm sure the EPA would advise "Your Frequency Change May Vary"..

While I don't have the satisfaction of the dinosaur brayne thinking to be
correct enough to hisssssss, I did notice something interesing enough to
HISSSS and point a claw at the image files I've attached:


A familiar looking image of KP4MD being spotted by wspr 4.0 at 432.301510
MHz:
wspr4-kp4md-spot-20150204-1516.jpg


A less familiar lookiing image of KP4MD being spotted AT THE SAME TIME
with wsprlinux.exe at 432.301498 MHz:

wsprlinux-kp4md-spot-20150204-1516.jpg

Looking carefully at the wsprlinux.exe image, you can easily see that
Carol's KP4MD signal is clearly measurable at 432.301510 MHz with our
eyes, not even using a ruler, it is obvious this signal is NOT at
432.301498 MHz, not even close!  If the signal was 12 Hz or 8 Hz or 4 Hz
lower than 432.301510 MHz, our eyes would see this from this image.

This difference is consistent in all of KP4MD signals I watched today.

"Food for Thought  & Grounds for Further Research"

C.YaZ,
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 2/10/15 11:29 PM
Phake 70 CM DX lps 2/11/15 9:32 AM

I thought there was no signal and I switched to 70 cm.  I didn't listen
wel enough.  I wound up spotting KC6KGE seconds after that.   My mistake.
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 2/17/15 7:04 PM
Join us now on 432.300 MHz WSPR Wednesday!

Carol KP4MD

Citrus Heights, CA

On Friday, June 28, 2013 at 12:32:23 PM UTC-7, n6gn wrote:

Now that we have several stations stable and accurate, I'm wondering about the interest in a regular time for trying 432 MHz WSPR.
WW6D, K6PZB, WA6M and N6GN have all run on 432.300 dial on and off but perhaps a more concerted effort makes sense now.

432 has some different challenges compared to 2m. Even with frequency stability solved the generally smaller physical antenna apertures, along with worsening foliage and terrain attenuation, make it more of a challenge. For ACS signals, we can expect three times the frequency offset.  Since it appears that much or all of the longer DX 2m spots involves ACS, it will be interesting to see if we can find aircraft on routes that support standard 2 minute WSPR.

WA6M and N6GN have already tried WSPR-15 on 432.3 with very good success. This can give us almost another 10 dB of sensitivity which might help make up for some of the above issues. However, it may make ACS related propagation unusable since the frequency 'stability' requirements are eight times as severe and we don't yet know how constant the DX WSPR spots, such as those between KC6KGE and Northern California, really are. WSPR 2 doesn't report perceived drift with less than 1 Hz resolution so even ACS paths that appear to have 0 drift on WSPR v2 may be unusable on 432 with WSPR v15.

At present, WW6D, WA6M, KI6STW, KC6KGE, N6GN have radios that support 432.  K6PZB is awaiting repair or replacement of an IC706 in order to become QRU on 432 again. It's possible, but I think not proven that N6KOG may have enough stability. I can't remember  what the results were when we last tried.

Of these, I think KI6STW and KC6KGE may not yet have 432 antennas with significant aperture/gain.  With the larger aperture/gain comes increased directivity. This means that we may have organize our efforts more than for HF or even 2m WSPR.  It would seem that the Sonoma County stations are clustered close enough, with the possible exception of WA6M, that they might be considered as a bloc when trying to run with KI6STW or KC6KGE.

We have had a couple of "432 Tuesdays" but I don't think there's a strong preference for any particular day. 

So my questions are, "Is there interest in running regularly on 432 WSPR?",  "What more do we need to start?"  "How should we go about trying it?"

Glenn n6gn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n3izn 2/18/15 4:54 AM
I'm in @ 12:50


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Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 2/18/15 5:08 AM
1304Z de n6kog I'm up on the air at present pointed down the valley towards Chris/N3IZN. Will listen, receive only until 6AM then start transmitting. GM Steve.
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n3izn 2/18/15 9:56 AM

Looks like we got a 2 way...
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR psflick2008 2/18/15 10:44 AM
GM Chris - Yes several both ways, seen allot of your traces earlier but just to weak to decode. The pre-amp at the antenna makes a big difference that's for sure. CUL Steve/N6KOG
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n3izn 2/18/15 9:44 PM
Not bad 432 action. Did not catch any screen shots.


2015-02-19 01:16   N3IZN   432.301576   -25   -2   DM13ji   50   N6KOG   CM97gs   624   323 
 2015-02-19 00:22   N3IZN   432.301573   -26   -1   DM13ji   50   N6KOG   CM97gs   624   323 
 2015-02-18 23:08   N3IZN   432.301575   -27   -1   DM13ji   50   N6KOG   CM97gs   624   323 
 2015-02-18 22:48   N3IZN   432.301572   -23   -2   DM13ji   50   N6KOG   CM97gs   624   323 
 2015-02-18 19:52   N3IZN   432.301573   -26   -3   DM13ji   50   N6KOG   CM97gs   624   323 
 2015-02-18 18:32   N3IZN   432.301576   -26   -1   DM13ji   50   N6KOG   CM97gs   624   323 
 2015-02-18 18:12   N6KOG   432.301449   -24   -1   CM97gs   50   N3IZN   DM13ji   624   141 
 2015-02-18 17:16   N6KOG   432.301447   -17   -1   CM97gs   100   N3IZN   DM13ji   624   141 
 2015-02-18 17:00   N3IZN   432.301573   -25   -1   DM13ji   50   N6KOG   CM97gs   624   323 
 2015-02-18 16:48   N3IZN   432.301573   -22   -1   DM13ji   50   N6KOG   CM97gs   624   323 
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 2/24/15 9:49 PM
QRU now on 432.300 MHz WSPR Wednesday!

de KP4MD Citrus Heights, CA 
50W (47 dBm) on 432.301510 MHz


Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR lps 2/24/15 10:31 PM
> <https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4GLOjRfLniU/VO1iQS3pfII/AAAAAAAAP50/eZEzJUEJa0M/s1600/432wspr_1.png>


Count me in!!

I suspect this is the perfect time to sample some Girl Scout Cookies.

munch munch,
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 3/3/15 6:30 PM
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 3/4/15 8:48 AM
I'm afraid N6GN is not able to join on 70cm this week.  The IC706 which has been in WSPR duty on 2m/70cm for about 4 years continuously has developed an intermittent problem. It limps along still with enough power to operate on 2m but not so on 70cm. After quite a lot of chasing to discover the cause - the problem would go away when I took the cover off - I have isolated the problem to the pre-driver stages of the PA. I think I have it further isolated to a 2SK2854 FET, for which a replacement is on order.

Continuous duty with amateur service gear is a bit of a challenge, particularly for more dense radio designs. But I found this note from the Toshiba data sheet for the 2SK2854 part particularly interesting. Highlighting is mine.

Using continuously under heavy loads (e.g. the application of high
temperature/current/voltage and the significant change in
temperature, etc.) may cause this product to decrease in the
reliability significantly even if the operating conditions (i.e. operating
temperature/current/voltage, etc.) are within the absolute maximum
ratings.

I guess it's a way of saying "Our specs aren't really specs".  I do remember manufacturers of power tubes, e.g. Eimac, having different specs for CCS (Continuous Commercial Service) and ICAS (Intermittant Amateur Service), so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised now.

Still, keeping our radios on continuous WSPR duty, even at less than 100% transmit is no doubt pressing some of them beyond their intended limits. 

Hopefully I can get it repaired and be back for next week.

Glenn n6gn
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR KC6KGE 3/4/15 8:56 AM
When mine goes it may be the end of my 2 meter WSPRing. 

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--
____________
Apply appropriate technology. Use what works without prejudice.  
Steven L Hess ARS KC6KGE DM05gd22
Owner Flex-1500 and Flex-3000, FT-857D, FT-817ND
openSUSE Linux 13.1 KDE
Known as FlameBait and The Sock Puppet of Doom.
Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 3/4/15 9:08 AM
The Yausu FT8x7's that have been running, yours, WW6D's, others? have
seemed to do pretty well. If yours does quit, maybe we can repair it.
Of the three IC706's I have, and WA6M's IC7000, all have had at least
one problem. These are perhaps slightly more dense radios but all of
them have a lot of parts. WA6M is currently troubleshooting a problem on
the PA board an IC7000 which is why we haven't seen him on 2m WSPR.
While small/dense hardware has its place, I wish I could find the a
single-master-oscillator multimode multiband radio like the Icom or
Yaesu ones we use but that was built in a box with about 8 times the
volume!  That would both make cooling easier and repair easier. While
someone is at designing one of these, maybe they'll put an external 10
MHz master clock reference input it as well.

I wonder if anyone within amateur radio is compiling any kind of
reliability data for different radios in various sorts of service. I
rather doubt it.

Glenn
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 3/31/15 7:54 PM
It's 432 MHz Wednesday again!
The FlexRadio 1500 has been running WSPR since 2011 without  a hitch...

Carol KP4MD, Citrus Heights, CA


{70 cm WSPR} lps 3/31/15 8:04 PM


I've joined the 432.300 MHz people for the First Annual 2015 April First
70 cm WSPR Wednesday on April 1, 2015 Wednesday!

This could be an interesting day as I plan to enhance my communications
experience by integrating Audiophile Grade Cable Assemblies into my
systems.   I have heard that without such essential components, the
emotional content of various WSPR and JT-65 signals would be
inadvertently filtered....  This could also be just as true dealing with
various PSK mode communications.  See this link for more info:

http://hothardware.com/news/ethernet-audio-retort

^-^

Anyway, as many things as there are required to work for functional
communications, it is amazing how many things can go wrong so quickly.
Although my IC-7000 and related equipment function for WSJT and WSPR, I
don not seem to know how to make my microphone work well enough to cause
my voice to modulate FM carrier during simplex check-ins this evening.
Microphone or brayne malfunction?  Time will tell!

73,
Equipment Woes lps 4/3/15 12:26 PM

For whatever reason, it appears that one or both, in some combination, are
effecting the functionality of my communications gear:

Equipment failure
Brayne failure

Yaesu FTM-350:

a dual receiver VHF/UHF FM transceiver appears to no longer to be able to
receive anything on the "active" selected receiver. It appears to still
receive if the squelch is turned off.   Of course this means the
non-selected receiver can't receive nor can the active receiver scan
through more than one memory channel.  A workaround is to set both
receivers to the same memory channel or frequency and transmitting with
the "active" non functional receiver side and receiving on the
non-selected side.  This has worked for repeater and simplex voice
contacts but I can only select "A" or "B" side of the radio for data which
means I can only send or receive data, not both.

I've upgraded and downgraded the farmwear (m00!) without a change.  I've
completely reset the radio and manually setup some channels on my sides of
the radio and it still behaves badly.

I'm not sure if there is something obvious that I used to know but now
can't think of. Since I can't think of that, it seems that calling up
Yaesu and asking for the obvious fix or asking to have it repaired is
called for.


IC-7000:

Voice modulation appears to no longer work.  While this can explain why
recently nobody on 2 meter and 70 cm SSB heard me, I haven't understood
why this is happening.   I've looked through the configuration settings to
see if something would deselect the microphone, I haven't seen it.  My
notes reveal nothing that looks helpful.  Is there something wrong with
the IC-7000 or the microphone or is there something I have setup that has
sailed over the horizon of my memory?  It just occurred to me that it
might be possible to input voice through the computer but I don't remember
seeing anything like that.   The microphones from the FTM-350 and the
IC-7000 look like they use the same type of connectors but I suspect that
the Yaesu microphone could not be used on the Icom radio.

A strange week indeed!
Re: 432 MHz WSPR n6gn 4/7/15 6:42 PM

I'm presently on 432 WSPR  pointed toward Citrus Heights. I'll turn the antenna toward n6kog and ki6stw later tonight or tomorrow morning

Glenn n6gn
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 4/7/15 7:02 PM
Now hopping between 144 and 432 MHz WSPR at 50 watts

Carol KP4MD


On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 6:42:37 PM UTC-7, n6gn wrote:

I'm presently on 432 WSPR  pointed toward Citrus Heights. I'll turn the antenna toward n6kog and ki6stw later tonight or tomorrow morning

Glenn n6gn
Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 4/8/15 8:06 AM
Here is the reason why we have seen so few VHF/UHF WSPR spots on the USA West Coast lately.  
No tropo propagation enhancement is expected here until Sunday.

Carol KP4MD
Citrus Heights, CA


Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 4/14/15 6:32 PM
Back on 432 MHz WSPR Wednesday now!

de KP4MD, Citrus Heights, CA





Re: 432 MHz WSPR KP4MD 4/21/15 7:43 PM
It's 432 MHz WSPR Wednesday once again!  Tune in on 432.300000 MHz dial frequency.
We have seen more and stronger 2 meter WSPR spots within the past week.
Hepburn predicts a small "tongue" of tropospheric propagation enhancement will extend through the San Francisco Bay area.
Perhaps we may see better 432 MHz propagation than last Wednesday.

Carol KP4MD, Citrus Heights, CA  CM98iq
West Coast VHF/UHF WSPR Propagation Study Group



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