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Re: Mozilla Code of Conduct: next steps

Gervase Markham Apr 4, 2012 2:00 AM
Posted in group: mozilla.governance
On 03/04/12 16:52, Yvan Boily wrote:
>> The code of conduct should call for us to respect people, and treat
>> them well. If people want it to, perhaps it could particularly warn us
>> to do so if that person is a member of ones of a specific set of
>> groups. However, it should not call for respect of all ideas or of all
>> personal behaviours. This would be doing what Mitchell warned against
>> - enforcing agreement on things outside the Mozilla mission.
> I give up trying to explain the difference between respecting and idea,
> and treating it respectfully.

If I do not respect an idea, but act as if I do, how is that not hypocrisy?

>> And you now clarify that this is about actions and behaviour. You are
>> therefore asking me to act and behave in a way that conflicts with my
>> belief about the value, or otherwise, of religious diversity. You are
>> asking me to be a hypocrite.
> If you think that treating people and their values with dignity and
> respect in the workplace or the community makes you a hypocrite, that is
> something you have to deal with.

But again, you put "people and their values" together. I am happy to
treat a person with respect. But if the person values inflicting pain on
others for their own pleasure (for example), I am not going to treat
that value with respect. And I hope you wouldn't either.

>> I think this statement doesn't have much force without a definition of
>> "harm", and how it is determined.
> harmful to the community = activities or behaviors that contribute to
> members leaving the community for reasons other than incompatibility
> with the core mission or values of the community

Then I'd hope you'd agree with me that it would be harmful to create a
code of conduct which required assent to political or philosophical
stances unrelated to our core mission and values (such as "religious
pluralism is a good thing" or "one must treat any value another
community member holds, such as sadism, with respect"). Because anyone
who disagreed with such stances would then have to leave - which would
be harmful to the community, by your definition.