Google Groups

Re: ANN: a Clojure docs site, and github organization


Rich Hickey Oct 6, 2012 3:25 PM
Posted in group: Clojure

On Oct 6, 2012, at 12:02 PM, Jay Fields wrote:

> The CA process isn't what stops me from contributing, the post a patch
> to Jira is what seems broken to me. I don't even remember how to
> create a patch. Clojure is on github - we live in a fork & pull
> request world, it's time for Clojure to get on board with that.
>

Lots of people eat fast food as well.

> I once noticed that a Clojure fn didn't have a type hint on a return
> value. Adding ^String made a substantial performance difference. Not
> knowing the process, I forked, and did a pull request. I got this
> response:
>
> "Clojure projects cannot accept pull requests so all issues need to be
> logged in the appropriate JIRA project and patches can be accepted
> from people who have a signed Contributor's Agreement on file:
>
> http://clojure.org/contributing
> http://clojure.org/patches"
>
> Which is informative and correct, but, do you really think I'm going
> to go through that trouble? If you said yes, you're wrong.

I'm responding to Jay here (because we're friends and I know he can take it:), but this is for everyone who feels similarly:

I prefer patches. I understand some people don't. Can't we just agree to disagree? Why must this be repeatedly gone over?

I'm not sure what value you think a message like this is going to provide to the thousands of participants in this list. Does it make you feel better? It will not convince me otherwise.

Here's how I see it. I've spent at least 100,000x as much time on Clojure as you will in the difference between producing a patch vs a pull request. The command is:

    git format-patch master --stdout > your-patch-file.diff

There are two sides to change management - production/submission, and management/assessment/application/other-stewardship. People who argue that the process should be optimized for ease of submission are simply wrong. What if I said patches were twice as efficient for me to assess and manage as pull requests? (it's more than that) Do the math and figure out how the effort should best be distributed.

I don't think asking for patches is asking too much, and I truly appreciate the people who are going to the extra effort. And, I respect the fact that people disagree, and they might decide not to participate as a result. However, I don't need to justify my decision over and over. How about a little consideration for me, and the other list participants? There is a real diluting effect of get-it-off-my-chest messages such as these on the value of the list and the utility of reading it for myself and others.

Sometimes it's better to save it for your bartender :)

Rich