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Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map

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Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map madeincanon 3/16/13 1:12 AM
Has anyone at Niantic even used the Total Conversion map? It is ridiculous how much more informative and accurate it is than the standard intel map. Niantic should just hire the person that makes IICT and replace their maps with his. Seriously.

Its sad that they're attempting to kill development on this, but as my fellow author who's post got deleted mentioned, the development won't stop. Even if this is shut down there will be another script or mobile app soon enough.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Sean Graham 3/16/13 1:40 AM
I have to agree with the sentiment here.

Shutting this down instead of working with the developer of the app is a *massive mistake* on the side of Google.

This is *exactly the type of thing* that Google should be *fostering*, not silencing.  Doing this will only alienate your users and beta testers and create discord with your audience.

Ingress is made possible by both the dedicated people at Google and the millions of beta testers who are giving up their time and (in many cases) enduring frustration during this period.

IITC is not designed to harm the system.  It is not designed to cheat, or give any unfair advantages.  It's an open modification designed to enhance the information available and more quickly respond to bugs and enhance features.  All of this *is at no cost to Google what so ever*.

Instead of killing it why not simply work with them to ensure that whatever concerns you have are properly addressed?  I am certain that the authors of IITC would be thrilled to be allowed to turn this into an official mod.

Silencing an enhancement like this is completely antithetical to what Google usually stands for, and frankly much more in line with the "closed garden" (very disliked) philosophies that Apple espouses.

Please, Google/Niantic, I implore you to reverse this decision and work with them.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map rudder 3/16/13 2:01 AM
When the Portals Map app was killed off, I thought that maybe Niantic didn't want to be open with Ingress data, maybe they wanted to make sure they could control the gameplay experience for balance reasons.

But when I said this, NianticOpsBernini said that they "definitely want to be open" in this thread: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/ingress-discuss/%22Portals$20Map%22$20app/ingress-discuss/zJ9JaobRyWs/DxfXiLZKQroJ

And yet now they're killing IITC, which doesn't harm gameplay at all; it's like the normal intel map but, well, much better done. I can't understand this at all, it seems totally out of line with Google's usual behaviour when it comes to community contribution and openness.

Don't Be Evil, guys :(

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map radwolf76 3/16/13 2:55 AM
Feedback & Suggestions: Prioritize the release of the public API.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Bruno Škvorc 3/16/13 3:04 AM
Niantic, this is bad move. You don't need this bad publicity now that Google has already stocked up on it by fighting the RSS standard.

You have two choices, sans modifying the terms of use:

1) Update the default map because it's useless right now. It doesn't load on any mobile device, it barely loads on the desktop, and the information it provides on the desktop is either out of date, incomplete, or just plain useless. Work with the dev of IITC and integrate his features into your map - it was the one thing that made Ingress playable in this volatile and GPS-drifty state (the last 1.21 update made things worse).

2) Release public API for us to do a better job on the map ourselves.

Either way, killing a project that was making our game i.e. your data mine usable in the first place is not the proper approach.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Tim Ward 3/16/13 3:15 AM
I'm guessing they're more concerned about things like the IITC hammering their somewhat precarious beta servers rather than anyone stealing their preccccious ingress data. I also believe they knew full well about the IITC but were turning a blind eye to it. It's not like everyone and their dog didn't post IITC screenshots on Google plus to celebrate some achievement, and it's not like the Ingress or NianticProject accounts didn't sometimes comment on them. However, when the guy contacted them they had no choice but to tell him to take it down. They could hardly say, "Well, this is against our ToS but we're making an exception because it's really cool".

That said, I would urge Niantic to either:

a) Implement IITC features in their own intel map, either replicate them themselves or use the IITC code directly
b) Speed up the API
c) Come to some accommodation wherein the IITC can continue to exist

Because it really is very useful and adds much to the game. 


Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Konstantin Pribluda 3/16/13 3:35 AM
Boy, Google running out oft Servers?  Wie finally did it ;) Nantic just linke to stay in charge - they just do not linke to damit that outsiders can do it better.  Actual Intel map sucks and dos not allow team coordination. And I still faul to See how JS extension in my Browser processing DOM delievered by legit application and painting alternative picture violates TOS. Wait they use better maps. Scoundrels!
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Dryunya 3/16/13 3:45 AM
IITC only made use of the data that's usually sent to "unscripted" users, AND it did so to (greatly) enhance the intel map. It geniunely made things better. Even if it somehow violated the TOS - they're not robots to follow everything to the letter, an exception can be made. In the very least, a more personal approach.
I believe Google knows better than just shutting down a popular feature just because they can, so there was a reason for it. Which is why shutting down a project like this could be done with an actual announcement, explaining those reasons. The way it was done puts Google in a bad light.
Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Krzysztof Hajd 3/16/13 4:25 AM
Vanilla intel map is totally useless compared to IITC, I think that they should replace their app with IITC.

Maybe they don't want to agree that somebody can do things better than uncle G.?

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Dirk Jäckel 3/16/13 4:27 AM
First of all I'd like to hear an explanation on what exactly of the TOS is violated by IITC.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Clariel 3/16/13 5:00 AM
I probably played more often because it made it so much easier to keep track of what was going on. You guys made a game where half of the players work in IT in some fashion. IITC didn't do anything other than scrape data that was already available. You should be encouraging people to interact with Ingress in this manner.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map shockia 3/16/13 5:03 AM
IITC just makes infos easier to read, each user can check out where other players are and have been before as the destroyed, linked, and deploy messages are available for all people.


IITC doesn't hammer the servers like the, imho with a proper reason, chrome extension portal finder, that really hammered the server with requests to get past the zoomlevel limit on neutral portals.

Although google server power might be able to handle that, i can agree to a certain degree that this kind of extension was more black then grey.

What difference is there between the promised "Public API" which makes me think that you want active thirdparty content and the already existing IITC Script?

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Kevin Krawczuk 3/16/13 5:08 AM
Kinda sounds like someone from the fruit company joined Niantic!
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map philote 3/16/13 5:14 AM
IITC was great, but it did violate the ToS (or community guidelines at least).  It was third-party code that pulled more data than the default map (according to the dev at one point).  That said, I think it was nice Google didn't shut it down earlier, and it was responsible of the developer to reach out and ask permission.  Let's wait and see what Google does, maybe they'll release an API soon or integrate IITC features.  For now, at least both factions are impacted equally.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jorge Steffen - L8 in Germany 3/16/13 5:15 AM
I also think IITC only uses data that Niantic sent to our browser first. If they don't want us to use all of this data to have a useful intelmap, they probably should stop sending that data in the first place...
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jacek R. 3/16/13 5:20 AM
There is no 'Public API' AFAIK. And Niantic ToC says that:

"In addition to the restrictions set out in the Google Terms of Service, unless you have received prior written authorization from Google (or, as applicable, from the provider of particular Content), *you shall not*:

(a) copy, translate, modify, or *make derivative works* of the Products, the Content or any part thereof;
[…]
(c) *access the Product or Content through any technology* or means *other than those provided by Google* (including without limitation automation software, bots, spiders, or hacks or devices of any kind);[…]"

So yes - IITC violates ToC. Unfortunately. :(
To be clear - I'd like to see Google working together with IITC author to make Intel map more usable. I tried recently to use original Intel and it really sucks. Planning any action is barely possible unless you have access to the data that *are* there but not displayed in original work. IITC makes it simply better.
C'mon guys - make it better. You've seen it, you KNOW it's better. And you can work some solution to this instead of killing the good work.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Dave A 3/16/13 5:21 AM
I think it made concurrent requests though
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Stefan Breunig 3/16/13 5:23 AM
The only place IITC pulled in more data intentionally is by loading 200 instead of the default 50 public messages per request. Combined with the "human public chat only" tab, that might have produced more data requests. On the other hand, it stored nickname resolves indefinitely, saving some requests. Apart from the chat requests mentioned, it was just more efficient at displaying the data transmitted anyway.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Frank Horowitz L8 in Upstate New York 3/16/13 5:51 AM
This is an utterly crazy move by Google/Niantic. IITC provided a "superior user experience" in every way to the stock intel map.

Considering that Google is now starting to enforce the Terms of Service, I wonder how many Googler's kids are going to be crying soon? Playing under the age of 18 is also against the TOS.

The proper and rational move is for Google to rein in their out-of-control lawyers; not to enforce the silliness in their TOS.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Ponder 3/16/13 5:55 AM
The same clause that this breaches [3(c)] also, by its wording, prevents us from using any browser other than plain Google Chrome. Are Google also going to demand that other vendors remove their browsers from the market for the same reason?

This is a classic example of legal wording gone mad. Google needs to realise that they're dealing with PEOPLE here and that this app/plugin does more to enhance the game than harm it, as have others before. Even their own staff have been promoting this plugin (Joe Philley for one) so why can't they cut us all some slack and allow useful apps/plugins like this to exist.

DON'T BE EVIL, GOOGLE!

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Ramon Pfeiffer 3/16/13 5:58 AM
"(c) *access the Product or Content through any technology* or means *other than those provided by Google* (including without limitation automation software, bots, spiders, or hacks or devices of any kind);[…]"

So yes - IITC violates ToC. Unfortunately. :( "

But then so does Firefox
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Dave A 3/16/13 6:00 AM
@Frank: Please read up on what you're talking about before you start talking about it. The dev contacted them and asked permission to use the data etc. Google didn't set its lawyers on him or start a witch hunt etc. I'm sure they've been aware of the existence of IITC for a while and purposefully done nothing about it.

What the add-ons/scripts/app do IS against the TOS. They can't very well say "Yeah it breaks the TOS but go ahead, they don't mean anything anyway". They could modify the TOS in the future but as things stand that was the only response they could give.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map philote 3/16/13 6:15 AM
The point was it did act differently than the default Intel map and if Niantic allowed that for one app, they'd have to allow it for all.  Hopefully they will open a public API soon to resolve this issue.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map rate 3/16/13 6:18 AM
This is really disappointing to me. I'm a diehard Google fanboy because of how open and transparent they are with their products and the way they operate, and the way they foster innovation to push the limits and abilities of technology.

IITC is far superior to the stock Intel experience, ESPECIALLY the new mobile version that just came out. It brings new, innovative ideas to the table, enhances the Ingress experience, and was careful to not provide any unfair advantages. This is the exact formula for what Google usually fosters and supports, yet they are fighting it.

Don't Be Evil. That's your motto right? Well, I know of one tech company that does things like this without giving transparent explanations as to why. Apple. Please don't even take one step towards being anything like them, ever.

The Ingress community needs two things from you. First is an explanation of why innovation like IITC is being stifled. I still have faith in Google, so I'm hoping there's a good reason, you just need to tell us what it is. Second, if there is good reason, then a public API needs to be priority #1.

With a good, open API, the community will do most of the hard work for you, and will bring more new ideas to the table then you could ever imagine.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map philote 3/16/13 6:19 AM
You do have to be 18 to accept the ToS, but can a parent do that on their children's behalf?  +Ingress has been giving out activation codes that were obviously for kids.  I know because I got two for my kids.  I do think they need to clarify some of these issues and act with some consistency.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map TerrorBite 3/16/13 6:25 AM
As sad as it is to hear this news, the implications are clear. Following what has been pointed out, my interpretation is as follows:

Google/Niantic seemed willing to look the other way and pretend they didn't know about IITC (and indeed, could plausibly deny knowledge of it), thus allowing it to continue despite it technically violating the ToS.

Unfortunately the developer, in wanting to be nice (which is admirable, but perhaps naïve in this case) asked Google directly if it was okay to continue development.

With their attention brought to it so directly, Google could no longer ignore the existence of IITC, and had to answer the question by the letter of the ToS - which of course, meant they had to ask him to cease and desist, even if Google themselves approved of the work.

Finally, there is still some hope. Google may yet offer the developer a chance to work with them, in which case it will no longer be a ToS violation as it will become a part of the official map. This may or may not be possible, depending again on ToS/legal/copyright issues.

ATZ
ATDT06691114829#####LINK_ACTIVE
BROADCAST - CONFIDENTIAL - AGENTS ONLY
BROADCAST SOURCE: UNKNOWN

Niantic had heard rumors of bootleg software that was being used among agents in the field to retrieve unauthorized portal data and analyze it for more advanced intel. Niantic could not sanction this, since the software was out of their control, the risk of sensitive data being leaked or exposed was too great.

Niantic tracked down the operative responsible for the bootleg software and forced him to redact his work. He has not been heard from since. Rumor has it that Niantic have taken him in and are forcing him to improve their own software to provide better data to field agents.

However the software is still out there, stashed in repositories hidden in the Deep Web. Agents who know how can still access it and - risking termination - make use of it, hoping their use remains undetected as they strive against their opposing faction.

END TRANSMISSION+++
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Axel Wagner 3/16/13 6:26 AM
They can very well say „Yeah, it violates the TOS but go ahead“. The TOS explicitely say so:

„[…]unless you have received prior written authorization from Google (or, as applicable, from the provider of particular Content), *you shall not*: […]“

So yeah. It may have been illegal prior to their answer but they _did_ have the option to make it legal by expressing consent.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map TerrorBite 3/16/13 6:29 AM
Axel, I think the key word here is "prior". He started the work without consent. He's already broken the ToS, post-authorization isn't going to change that.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map VindictiveSmurf (L10) 3/16/13 6:50 AM
And here I thought Google was all about getting smart people and doing great things, How can they ignore the talent of the person who has turned a mostly boring and nonfunctional Ingress Map into a mine of great information for players in IITC.

Even for reporting errors and misplaced portals, the ITTC was a lot better in providing links to portals, etc.

In Atlanta we are aware that the ENL have access to some log scrubber and they even have automatic e-mail alerts that tell them when and where, the Resistance creates L8 portals. Their log scrubber also collects statistics about all Resistance players. At least IITC was opened to anybody on all teams and provided useful information.

You should reconsider Niantic. There are so many broken things with the game that all your users want and you have not listened.

- Multiple item drop to share items with other players.
- Multiple item pickup (why does it have to be a shore transfering items). Hell NFC item transfer would be awesome.
- IITC like map with all the features and plugins as they had.

Sure the newly added submit a portal is fine, but let's be honest I have submitted over 40 portals (the old way) and some of my submissions are still waiting after 2 months whereas somebody who just submitted portals a week ago had his approved in 4 days...

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map ZZ 3/16/13 6:55 AM
So Google/Niantic shut down add ons that made the game a little easier to play.  Since everyone had access to it, it did not give anyone an advantage over anyone else.

Yet these same people (Google/Niantic) are endorsing the use of "drones" to attach your phone to for collecting xm in areas you can't physically get to.  That setup has the ability to move your phone out of your scanner range, which technically is also against the TOS/community guidelines.

So come on Google and Niantic.  Enforce ALL the rules, or don't enforce any of them.  Don't enforce the ones you don't like because you didn't come up with them.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Nick Dumas 3/16/13 7:04 AM
Plain and simple.  Bad move.

The Mobile Map, while better,  still is not good.

the functionality for planning as a team is non existent in the stock intel map.  this is a team game right?

the ability to see portal information in depth is one of the key ways we have fought and found GPS Spoofers and cheaters, which is better for the game right?

seriously, there are 100 times more advantages to this after market community driven piece of software then what you have given us.  And if it's like Google + we could be waiting 3 years for any kind of an API to make better programs.

I know Niantic is a small team, and i know Google probably hasn't given you the resources to do what you want in the game, but don't strip the community of the resources it needs to play the game either.

Please, for the love of this game, don't do this.  You're hurting your players ten fold over any other change in this game by stating this.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Ssscrudddy 3/16/13 7:09 AM
Bring back IITC.

Your own damn map simply doesnt work on my mobile phone, & it barely works on the PC.

This is a piss poor move. Boo!

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Don Sherman 3/16/13 7:11 AM
I agree with Nick and so many of the others that have already posted here.  IITC is a great tool and significantly enhances the game.  I really hope that Niantic and the people at Google can see the value of this extension and the other add ons.  These add ons are there because people have asked for them.  These are features that "the masses" are hungry for.  Please reconsider asking IITC to remove their content and instead find a way to fold them into the native intel map.  I know that there are several players in my local area that already have scripts that are scraping the intel map to do the same things.  IITC makes this information accessible to the general public.  It levels the playing field and makes the game so much more fun to play.  Please reconsider.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Travis Dotson 3/16/13 7:21 AM
Most everyone here has made good points. Google has a history of embracing free development so we have to hope they will make the right choice in this case.

I don't think you will find any agents who will say that the stock Intel map is better than iitc. If everyone who drives this beta keeps linking this to their communities the powers that be may see the opportunity that this "free work" could provide.

Google listen up your beta testers are giving good feedback!

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Basecamp 3/16/13 7:46 AM
Very disappointed Google.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map John Lusk 3/16/13 7:54 AM
Yep.  Agree.  Bad move on Niantic/Google's part.  They should incorporate the code or grant permission.  If they want, they could approve each new version.

I wouldn't normally add a "me too" content-free post, BUT... I hope Niantic is measuring the response.  Is there a place I can vote somehow?

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map great enchanter 3/16/13 8:02 AM
I think @Sean Graham is expressing the feelings of most of IITC users in the best way possible, so I join his request to Google/Niantic to step back on their decision.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map UltraOps 3/16/13 8:08 AM
Hi,

If I ran google / ingress I would hire this guy, buy his app and integrate.

However, here is the issue I see them having with it:

You're supposed to be left guessing at some point, that's obvious in the game's design.

If everyone is crying out for it, then perhaps it may be something for them to consider. At the same time, if it's not coming from the source that means not all players have the same advantage.

I thought it was brilliantly done, kudos to the developer.

However, they write quite clearly that mining the intel map for data isn't allowed, so it shouldn't be surprising that this app, like a couple others were stifled.

My understanding is that an API is forthcoming, and perhaps it's best to avoid writing anything that mines data from the intel map until such a time that they publish that API. As much as I would like to see ITC continue to exist, I feel obliged to respect the wishes of the owners of the data.

Again, great app. it worked for me when the regular intel map was difficult to use.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map madmike 3/16/13 8:13 AM
I am going to suggest, this type of thing would not seem as bad if ninantic communicated a bit more with what they are doing,

It seems a lot of players have suggestions, some really good, either for map/gameplay or anything else, but there is nothing to suggest that ninantic are even looking at them... 
They should ask themselves why so many people use the total conversion... there is some information on there that does help, but it is also a damn sight faster at loading. It is clearer with respect to the comms box, the option to change colours helps colour blind players or in some lighting conditions, 

These are all things we have been suggesting for some time... but we have no idea if ninantic are working on these or something similar to these. 
Are cheaters being watched? *shrugs* some folk seem to think not and have left the game as cheaters continue to play.
Are new game dynamics and portal mods on the cards? *shrugs* apparently but no idea if and when. Players have left after hitting level 8 then getting bored.

Now, I put my hands up, when they do release an update it is generally worth it, But there is nothing to look forward to, no 'sneak peeks' no 'storyline hints' to get folk talking, 
This has the effect of generating a lot of frustration, and that leads to bad mouthing and finger pointing. It would be nice if we could get some sort of feedback, after all, if folk dont know what to expect, they are doing their own thing (like IITC), 

Will ninantic even read this? No idea, they seem not to reply to anything other than questions that have been answered, questions about in game issues that already are known or cheats... 

Perhaps an ninantic 'insider' could leak 'intel' on scanner updates and 'xm tech', perhaps part of the decode ingress page??
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Sonček Geocache 3/16/13 8:16 AM
IITC map makes a game play much more fun and engaging!

"Official" map is quite dull and not enough informative in the real-time.

COLLABORATION and COMMUNICATION between players is better supported and more up to date with IITC. For example a Player tracker is fun and informative plugin!
While sitting at home you can see players acting and it just pulls you out from your home to the field to help (or oppose)! There is no such enabler in "official Ingress page"!

Also mobile IITC map helps players a lot, as one can plan portal linking strategy in the field! There is no such help from "official" pages and app. Agent just can not see and plan based on current in-field data (portal key s/he got in the field) as with "official app" you do not see the broader strategical situation). IITC mobile gives that intel!

IITC enhances the play and makes it more fun. Taking IITC down will make this game much less playable and much less collaborative from my point of view.

Google should find a way to incorporate IITC in their coding or better - to open Ingress to independent developers.

Google will benefit from this game a lot (players location data, interesting locations data, info on what hardware users are using, Google+ usage went up  strongly due to players interacting, etc...)
Just one more example - a big one - Google glass without Ingress data from ous players will be just a nice gadget without location content! We are free providers for GOOGLE. How much costs the Google incurred with Google street view content collection? With Ingress the data about important locations are coming for free to Google. Actually data collection is payed by Ingress players!

Google, re-think the issue and your decision! Listen up!
As Travis wrote: Your beta testers are giving a good feedback!

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Der Picknicker 3/16/13 8:21 AM
This is a bad day for many Ingress players. Imo IITC is far too good to be shut down. Please let me know if there's anything I could do to let Google know how disappointed I am.

E.g. if there was a public event like Earth Hour where all participants stop playing Ingress for some time, I would join this.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map TerrorBite 3/16/13 8:40 AM
I agree madmike, Niantic should be asking themselves why people prefer IITC over the default map.

To some others: I don't think boycotting Ingress or reacting with negative statements will help much. We need to be suggesting and encouraging Niantic Labs in the right direction, in a positive way.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map sHammer 3/16/13 8:58 AM
The IITCS s one of the best things that could happen to Ingress. Instead of shuting it down Niantic would better try to understand why the people love this map. A open API in addition to ready to use apps would attend a great number of talented and free resources. So Niantic could keep a basic application and focus on the game itself, the reduction of traffic an the database design. With an open API the presure to deliver a good scanner would be taken away.

Please allow the IITC

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Bram Warrick 3/16/13 9:10 AM
My impression has generally been that this undertaking is almost exclusively motivated by a desire for portal submissions.  I say that with an awareness that portals don't even get accepts for 8+ weeks sometimes, but that really seems to be the motivation.

I've seen the ToS skirted if not violated.  I've read Joe Phillie resharing stories of benign trespass and talk about loving the spirit of the people doing it.

And all of it makes sense.  I'm not complaining.  I'm saying they've given a wink to anything that violates the ToS if they can have plausible deniability.  They're trying to legally protect themselves, but they aren't going out of their way to do it.

They want portals, and they want people to do what helps that happen.

I'm hoping that this bottom-line focus on the part of Google, drives this to a GOOD resolution.  Otherwise, I, like so many others, am very discouraged.

I'm WebSensed at work when it comes to games...  (naturally), so to play after work I rely on GOOD intel.  That's getting cut off at the knees.  I'm a portal submitting fool who tries to find quality stuff, but if I can't see what's going on, it's harder to get into the fun of the thing.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Caleb Brown - Lvl 8 3/16/13 9:12 AM
I agree with everyone here.  It is really sad that this is shut down.  Please incorporate the work from IITC into ingress' official intel map before shutting it down.  The official ingress map pales in comparison.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Philo Sage 3/16/13 9:14 AM
+1 Google I strongly recommend working with the dev for IITC. Please don't be a Microbesoft and kill all the good ideas.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Philo Sage 3/16/13 9:21 AM
Google even says that it is within TOS, but dev must contact Google prior to development.

3. Use of the Products - Permissions and Restrictions.
Subject to these Terms, Google grants you a personal, non-commercial, non-exclusive, non-transferable license to download and use the Ingress mobile application software, to access and use the Ingress website and service, and to access the Content (as defined below) within the Products for your use.

“Content” means the text, software, scripts, graphics, photos, sounds, music, videos, audiovisual combinations, interactive features and other materials you may view on, access through, or contribute to the Products, including content supplied by Google, its suppliers, or users.

<BOLD>In addition to the restrictions set out in the Google Terms of Service, unless you have received prior written authorization from Google (or, as applicable, from the provider of particular Content),</BOLD> you shall not:

(a) copy, translate, modify, or make derivative works of the Products, the Content or any part thereof;
(b) redistribute, sublicense, publish, sell, or in any other way make the Products or Content available to third parties;
(c) access the Product or Content through any technology or means other than those provided by Google (including without limitation automation software, bots, spiders, or hacks or devices of any kind);
(d) extract, scrape, or index the Products or Content (including information about users or game play);
(e) create or maintain any unauthorized connection to the Products, including but not limited to any server that emulates or attempts to emulate the Products;
(f) delete, obscure, or in any manner alter any attribution, warning, or link that appears in the Products or the Content; or
(g) use the Products for any commercial purpose, including but not limited to (i) gathering in-Product items or resources for sale outside the Products, or (ii) performing services in the Products in exchange for payment outside the Product.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Devastus 3/16/13 9:24 AM
Forget the discussion of whether google likes it or not, it seems they won't listen to reason. Is there anywhere else I can download it?
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map krohnotrigger 3/16/13 9:26 AM
Don't fret fellow agents, Niantic rolloing out *new* Intel map, check your *inbox*.
http://www.willowandstone.co.uk/cms-images/product/zoom/new%20world%20map%20wrapping%20paper%20web.jpg

For all the time + effort (= money) we've put in *testing*, I think we deserve to be heard on this. PLEASE LISTEN TO US!

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Dave Gutterud 3/16/13 9:41 AM
IITC is the ONLY reason I'm still playing this game.  The information you get from the Niantic sources simply isn't enough, especially in highly populated areas.

Let's face it, once you start moving up in levels, this game can get really monotonous.  Without the added information you get from IITC this game would completely lose my interest.

Come on Google - adopt or accept IITC.  

Or start calling yourself Apple2

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Ro Ver 3/16/13 9:43 AM
Google/Niantic/Ingress do not enforce their own TOS when it suits them not to. I have noted the number of invites given to people for artwork when they have stated that they want their children to play. Ingress does not mention the 18+ rule in their posts but instead ignores their own TOS when it suits them. Don't be evil
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Trunkam Trk 3/16/13 9:44 AM
Nothing to add more to agents that posted before me.. except that... yes niantic should play and use intel to understand that sucks..

You should give the iitc developer a prize for his work.. he made ingress more playable from smartphone..

Ok let's go back to stoneage..  WTF

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map sHammer 3/16/13 9:46 AM
Cheated yourself messages does not really help.
(unknown) 3/16/13 9:52 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Johnathan West 3/16/13 10:30 AM
I just want to post to say that I agree with what everyone has been saying here - that Google/Niantic should allow people to make add-ons/mods to Ingress. I just learned about IICT and I'm devastated to find that it has been shut down. It would  have been awesome to have been able to use some of the tools it enabled, and given the game much more depth.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map zedix 3/16/13 10:37 AM
I hope Niantic goes back on this decision! IITC is one of the best things about Ingress, especially the new mobile version. They should hire the developer and make it the new standard Intel map. Super disappointed in Google/Niantic with this decision...
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Muffy 3/16/13 10:45 AM
I would prefer if Ingress would support 'an Intel project' of some sort given that they have not been able to do it themselves thus far.  E.g., ingress.com/Intel *does not* work on mobile devices and last I checked, this is a mobile activity.

If it is legally difficult to grant an individual license to do this then do the right thing now and create a supported open source project before ingress ends up on the heap of other abandoned Google projects.

Careful Ingress, you are not the only game in town.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Itso S 3/16/13 10:50 AM
Same here. Hope Niantic will do something about this earlier rather than later.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jason Merrell 3/16/13 11:28 AM
Why would you squash something so beneficial to players?

What a bonehead move, Niantic.  I'd rather play with a sharp metal knife, not some stone ax.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map James 3/16/13 11:34 AM
The Ingress Intel Total Conversion (IITC) script is arguably the best thing to happen to Ingress.  In my experience, it basically just takes information that is already available to everyone, but brings it together and displays it for users in a way that makes it much easier to view and understand that information.  The default Intel map is helpful, but of limited use when compared to the IITC version -- IITC provides so much more helpful information that I don't know why the default intel map doesn't do some of that already.  I can understand why Google would want to have some control over how their data are used, but effectively shutting down an extremely useful user-created project because the developers didn't ask you for permission in advance (or something, not sure about the specifics here) is a poor decision, I think.  I would suggest that Google (a) allow IITC to continue as a user-created project, (b) work with the IITC script creators to incorporate such features into the default Intel map, or (c) offer an official API or other means by which users can create projects such as IITC without running afoul of the Ingress Terms of Service.  From what I've seen, everyone who has tried the IITC add on has loved it and found it tremendously useful -- shutting it down does not seem like a wise decision.  Google, please reconsider your decision.  Thank you.
(unknown) 3/16/13 11:40 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Flx 3/16/13 11:50 AM
GTranslated
"Too bad google ban so powerful functionality, just because it comes from a third party.
I really like IICT. It will not be the same without him playing.

@ Niantic, be smarter and integrate the functionalities of this tool (IICT) to his poor IntelMap"

Original
Es una pena que google prohiba una funcionalidad tan poderosa, sólo  porque viene de un tercero.
Me gusta mucho IICT.  No será lo mismo jugar sin él.

@Niantic, sé mas inteligentes e integren las funcionalidades de esta herramienta (IICT) a su pobre IntelMap  

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Paul Gregg 3/16/13 11:53 AM
"or devices"

So, ToS says we can only play Ingress if done on a Nexus device.  All you people using Samsung Galaxy, HTC, LG etc are hereby banned.

You can only play the game using Google devices (Nexus) and software (Android, Chrome, Ingress App) - anything else is against the ToS.

Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map skynetzero 3/16/13 11:54 AM
I cannot understand this move by Google/Niantic and if it violates the TOS to not change the TOS then.

IITC adds so much more fun to the game and the game play - think about one team member is using the IITC at home and doing the command centre and delegating the other team members and supports them with tactikal information. This adds so more depth to the game.

Google / Niantic, pleace think about it.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Mike Gartner 3/16/13 12:01 PM
I will definitely miss IITC :(
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Room 101 3/16/13 12:02 PM
Really people ?  Have you honestly thought about what you're asking for if the IITC is brought back in ?

You're happy that your level is instantly known by the opposition the second you make a move (instead of someone having to monitor portals and find it out) ?
You're happy that a script (not a real human being) can track and trace you in REAL TIME ?
You're happy that your movements can be dissected down to the last detail as to when you play, where you live, what time you deploy ?
You're happy that any attack you make can be counteracted as fast as a notification pops up on someone elses screen ? (thus wasting all your hard work and planning)

Is the front end of the IITC better ? Yes, probably.  Are there some neat features of the app (live scorecard, AP hotspots etc) Definitely.

But the fact that I know I can be traced and tracked courtesy of a 3rd party scraper and people can then monitor what I get up to whilst playing a game is not my idea of "a good thing".

What Google decides to do with my (granted by consent) data is up to them.  What some random person that I don't know does with it is a whole different ball game.

We whine and bitch and moan to our governments about our freedoms, then seem quite happy to sign them over to the all and sundry if it makes our gaming lives easier.  Likewise our demands for privacy (from Google/FB/Twitter etc) yet seem oblivious to what we are handing over here

Don't get me wrong, I think the IITC is a fantastic app, but it also opens a whole can of worms when it comes to information dissemination.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Sean Bell 3/16/13 12:04 PM
So all the deleted messages?  Obviously links to FORKS of the OPEN GIT REPOSITORY.  It is laughable to even bother 'taking down' the original IITC hub, as it is already out in the wild and will never die.

So go ahead, try to supress the information you *shaper scum* :)  Viva la resistance!

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Scott Schultz 3/16/13 12:04 PM
Let me add my voice to the chorus. The proper response to this was not some random person replying with a boilerplate response. It should have been +brandon badger replying with an offer to give official permission to develop the app.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jason Merrell 3/16/13 12:10 PM
All of your "You're happy that..." examples are already part of the game.

I can guess your level by what resonators you drop.  Guess.  Just like IITC.
I can track you by watching the COMM.  In real time.
I am notified by email from Niantic when you destroy my resonators.  Not sure how the IITC is involved here.

Wait...you have to be railing against Google here.  Not the IITC.  Right?

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Miguel Angel Galan Garcia 3/16/13 12:18 PM
Instead of cooperation, like in the game you created, confrotation! You have only benefits from ITTC! This is nonsens in his highest form. You could have a win-win situation, but  you rather use APLE strategie. Go on only a little time with this behaviour and there will exits copys of the game that are better than your Original.
(unknown) 3/16/13 12:24 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Xelio Cheong 3/16/13 12:26 PM
Actually what information IITC has is the same as original intel map. The 4 problems you concerned can also happen with original intel map with a little scripting.
Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Things Better 3/16/13 12:28 PM
Please review this decision immediately many of us love these mods and free they add to our enjoyment of your game.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Andrea Di Simone 3/16/13 1:01 PM
Completely nonsense.

The stock intel map is useless.

I would understand this sort of bullying if they were providing a valid alternative. The truth is, IITC is doing what ingress.com/intel should have been doing since the beginning. And what they are yet far from doing.

Start providing a web UI which is worth the time it takes to load: you'll see that people stop using home-made re-writings.

Taking down IITC will not solve the issue: other projects will arise to fill the stunningly large lack of features of the stock intel map. The real problem here is that you should provide a good web UI. Period.

jm2c,

Andrea.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jordan Gallant 3/16/13 1:05 PM
Just because it's better doesn't mean it should be there. Google wants everyone (not just those who know about an app that's not even on the play store) to have the same experience. They also don't want to be liable when someone creates a app like it but includes some malicious goodies. This is usually why ToS contracts are made. People use something not offered by the company and then something goes wrong and the company will not help because you violated their warranty rules or ToS. Same thing applies here. I'm sure Google will incorporate things similar to IITC in the future. No reason to get worked up about it.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Megan Perry 3/16/13 1:16 PM
Look at World of Warcraft. It can't even be played without a string of add ons. I don't understand why this policy is in place. EVERY massively multiplayer online game uses UI mods and player-made map plugins. None of the info on IITC is unavailable in the game, and someone with a lot of time on their hands could manually post a hand drawn map with the same info, anytime, and it would give the same data without violating TOS? Ingress sucks up 90% of it's players free time as it is, IITC made the game playable by people with jobs and other responsibilities in life by making info easily available.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Andrea Di Simone 3/16/13 1:20 PM
Jordan Gallant, my point is that this is the kind of policy that google will not be able to enforce for long. If we ever exit from beta and the game is open to the public, we will start having tens, if not hundreds, of rewritings. Many of them will probably come from people/places that are not vulnerable to cease and desist requests.

The only way for google to promote the widespread use of their UI is to make it the best.

Now it is by far the worst (imvho, of course).

jm2c,

Andrea.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Christian Schulz 3/16/13 1:41 PM
Hi There,

you all don't get the point.
Niantic/ingress don't shut down the IITC because they want to have control over you. There is only one reason, this reason is a major flaw in the US judical system.

If Niantic would allow anyone to violate theyr Terms of Service, they can't enforce them on anyone. So they had to ban IITC, because they where contacted, and so officially know about the project (i think they already had known of IITC before and tolerated it, but they must deny it to the public because of legal issues).

So the offical question of the IITC-Author triggered it's ban.

If he had asked for Permission before publishing his work, perhaps he would have granted permission to use ingress Data.

Sincerly yours

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Marc Letford 3/16/13 1:43 PM
"Agents who know how can still access it and - risking termination - make use of it, hoping their use remains undetected as they strive against their opposing faction. "

does this mean - strictly speaking of course - that using a discontinued app risks having your account stopped? Whoever copy and pasted this T&C didnt understand the sort of game they would be releasing I guess. Nor did I. I thought we would be free agents within the game, defining the immediate narrative for most players with our actions.

(unknown) 3/16/13 1:43 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Sioban 3/16/13 1:46 PM
This move from Niantic is far the worst they done since the beginning of the game.
Do you really want to upset your players ????

You should learn from others errors... Diablo 3, MOH Warfighter, Sim City 3, etc...

The game is seriously beginning to be boring...

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Netzvamp 3/16/13 1:46 PM

IITC only shows informations that are public available and analyzes them. You can do the same, if you watch the normal log. So stop playing ingress if you are scared about beeing tracked down.
IITC is/was available to all so everyone had the same tool. I bet there are other tools who do the same but are not public. And now they will never be public :P

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Amaru Kaze 3/16/13 1:51 PM
Niantic has done the worst it could do with that move and it will find that it is futile.

Having access to the Internet and willing to learn anyone will at a point have the understanding for programming such modifications and no matter how Niantic alters the appearance of the Data, how it is transmitted, encrypted or anything. Someone will be able to break it, you cannot expect people to sit there and stare at an incomplete, uninformative Map just because the Company intends to.

There will be mods for any program and I have to stress what many of the persons posted before me told. The Conversion Map is NOT giving anyone an advantaged nor does it alter the way the game is played.

I can only assume that Niantic has company interests that seems to be interfered with by that mod and instead of, as suggested many times before, making the mod a standard and develop into something useful it is a futile attempt to keep the control over Ingress. As mentioned before there are thousands and more programmers not satisfied with the standard map and they have means, the time and the will to do it. You can for sure try to shut down such mods but what for? Isn't the existence of such a mod telling you "Hey, Niantic we are missing something. We want that feature?" Niantic is not only boldly shutting the ears from cries for a better map, software and such it is also attacking those who invest their spare time in providing what the Community needs and punish them for that?

Just a question of personal interest: "Are you nuts?"

If someone provides me with an essential part of work, which the customer demands, I won't say no to it, especially if it is for free. Apparently the policy of Niantic is "Fore the customer to bear with our incomplete, inadequate and uninformative map so they get frustrated and quit playing Ingress." If that is not it, you are doing the first move in a direction I, as many, many others, will not tolerate. I came here to test, I know I would endure Server Errors, Game Errors, Bugs and Testing which might have the game drifting in ways I do not like but I wasn't aware it is company policy to drive me away.

If a community manager ever reads this I can only stress this "Be warned, the product you provide no matter how good or bad, how expensive or even free. It lives and dies with the participation of users. You may come to notice that uproar in the community and given the ability to use common sense you should know that bigger the uproar is the bigger is the negative Image that you are giving yourself. You cannot polish such things away with goodies and some fancy stories like live battles for portals. Niantic be aware of what you are doing, take this as a friendly but stern warning"

Further more I don't think that I need to remind you of the fact that close contact to the community is important and lately I have the feeling, as others, that you get lost in some changes no one requested and no one needs. We ask for better ways to defend portals, you gives us an inbuilt Portal submission function ( which is nice but if you need a spoon a knife is useless... although it is nice to have). Better listen to what we want if you provide us with such a map with the information the Conversion map did then you take the reason to use the third party product. 

Think about what is written here, think closely and before you even reply think a third time.

That is a game, that no one plays?

Sincerly,

Amaru
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map segv11 (L8) 3/16/13 1:54 PM
Silly move.

The first rule of online game development is that all restrictions should be server side.  The it should not matter if someone uses a third-party intel map, or even a third party scanner app, because the server-side software should make sure that they have no special advantage.

Enforcing the security of the game by limiting client-side modifications is no security at all.  Google should know better.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map otobas 3/16/13 2:00 PM
Well, I think it's unfortunate.  The IITC was an brilliant piece of work and some of the spin-offs were equally inspired and useful.  The mobile version of the IITC intel map made sitting in front of the PC redundant given it's smooth and fast interface and the fact that the chrome mobile version of intel was barely functional.

That said, Google is within their rights to enforce their ToS and to protect their back end from tools that might cause performance or other problems globally - I'm not suggesting IITC was, but we're not really in a position to know and even if it wasn't now, some new feature might suddenly cause a problem in the future.

That also said, what IITC *did* show is that there is a strong demand for a cleaner, more useful set of information for players, and better support for mobility given that is what this game is all about.  It also showed what crowd-sourcing can do and highlights areas where the existing game interface is weak - adding portal suggestions to the app is cute, but really what they need is a faster and more consistent portal vetting process - some of the rejections I've received no sense whatsoever and some that made it onto the map were wildly out of place and duplicated existing portals.

If, as the Niantic memo suggests, the issue is that the code is "out of their control", then I'd say the smart thing for Google to do is to provide a means for this sort of work to be carried out _within_ their control - not by an API perhaps, but,say, by exposing a code branch that can be developed externally but vetted for release internally.  Or perhaps license specific people to do sanctioned development. Or something.

I *DO* encourage Google and Niantic to review their decision and to work with the IITC developers to find a way that IITC and it's derivatives, together with the mobile Intel app, can be reintroduced in a controlled way that works for them and for the players.  

I for one will find it very frustrating to return to playing with just the existing tools, and yes, having reached L8, that may well affect my decision to turn out to play further.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Dirk Jäckel 3/16/13 2:19 PM
Which ban? There is no ban. They asked him to take it down. He did. Since there are several forks there is no problem in still getting IITC. It still works fine.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Dirk Jäckel 3/16/13 2:22 PM
Please explain why they cannot grant a written permission to the author to allow the users of his software to access the data on the servers. His source code cannot violate the TOS. Using his software might.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Christian Schulz 3/16/13 2:43 PM
Hi Dirk,

let me cite from the TOS: "creating derivate work" "without prior written permission".

sincerly yours

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Christian Schulz 3/16/13 2:47 PM
hi segv11,

it was an absolutly neccessary move, because of the fact that IITC violates theyr Terms of Service. If they don't enforce theyr TOS, they can't enforce them against anyone (thanks to the faulty US judical system).

Sincerly yours

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Michel Kangro 3/16/13 2:56 PM
@Google and @Niantic: Please hire the guy or at least buy his IITC-software and integrate it officially.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map ZenithUK 3/16/13 2:59 PM
So many people wouldn't be using IITC if Niantic provided a comparable experience with their "official" Intel map.

At the very least, Google/Niantic should consider incorporating some of the most popular features into the regular map.  My personal favourites would be:
* faster rendering and better responsiveness.
* being able to change the map colour scheme.
* more portal information reported (date captured, XM level, range, AP gain etc.)
* range of selected portal shown as a circle on the map.
* tools for drawing on the map (distance lines, range circles, portal markers)

Niantic have a chance to up their game if they take on the developer of IITC to improve the stock Intel map experience.  The public data stream provides all the information.  The script just formats and displays it better than the stock map.

Listen to all the voices here.  If this many people took to this group to express themselves, how many others haven't spoken up?

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Adrian L 3/16/13 3:10 PM
I understand most of the sentiment of the comments left on here which can be summarised to:

a) the official Intel map is quite useless
b) the IITC version is a whole lot better

I wholeheartedly agree as IITC presents more data and also in a visually pleasing manner. Filtered comms is a blessing!!

But there are two plugins that I disagree with; AP List and Player Tracker.

AP List basically lists the top 10 portals by AP which for me ruins the game. This basically gives players a ready made hit list of portals to target, which is great if you're out to gain as much AP but sucks if you're the player who's spent time and effort to create a good portal/link/field only to see it get targeted by everybody.

Player Tracker lets you see on the map when a player makes an action and over time you can use it to guess where the player might be heading to, where they normally start from, when they are active etc. Again, it's a great tool for planning an attack or a counter attack etc. But again, it sucks if you're the one being tracked and whatever plans you've made is ruined.

I do understand that all the data that IITC used is 'public' anyway; I can check the map to see which portals have the most links and deduce it has the most AP to be gained if captured and I can monitor the Comms to watch where players go etc. The two plugins mentioned above just collates all that info and presents them more cohesively.

But the game to me is about discovery. It's more satisfying to find portal that's worth loads of AP and more gratifying when you ruin an opponent's plan or execute your own little plan for world domination, all on your own initiative, all using your own sleuthing skills.

Also, it's highly unfair when there are players who use IITC and those that don't. Should IITC be blamed for making a better Intel map? Nope. And I do believe that Niantic turned a blind eye to the script until the author asked and they have had no choice but to tell him to stop making the script available. It's a legal matter.

I would like to think that Niantic will look at IITC and find what they can incorporate in the next upgrade to the official Intel map. And I would hope that they will release official APIs really soon so that such a scenario will not happen again.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Nick Morrissey 3/16/13 3:14 PM
@Room 101: Do you realize that every time you log in to the game you're being tracked? Go read the agreement that you accepted when you signed in to the game, and understand that Google basically requires you to agree to the collection of data, including movement and activities, while playing Ingress. IITC wasn't tracing you, it was simply making a prettier version of the original intel map, not a way to scrape data and store it elsewhere in some nefarious plan by the IITC devs to somehow track your GPS habits. Google tracks the data, and the Intel map still has the same information, so you can't exactly hide. The biggest problem is that IITC made the same information a whole lot easier to access.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Rob Wyland 3/16/13 4:00 PM
Google should know better, you don't just kill an open source project, it just doesn't work like that.  

Instead of announcing it and coming across as an ass, they should have just changed the API to disallow IITC access to the information it was requesting, or at least switch to an authentication model with developer IDs.  The majority of the players are techie people who know this obviously crosses the line, such a FAIL.

Shame on you Google, own up to your mistake.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Kiki Jewell 3/16/13 4:32 PM
I'm very sad too.  I'm at home most of the time (teacher during the day and parenting at night,) and the only way I could play a lot of the time was to "run Ops" meaning to watch the map and give "intel" information to my teammates working on a project (eg L8 farm build, or making a big field.)

Having IITC made that job so much easier and helpful -- trying to wade through comm for the same information is prohibitively difficult in comparison.

Using IITC running Ops was my primary way to participate and be a part of the Ingress community.

So sad.  Sure leaves a bad taste in my mouth about it.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map hmmwhatsthisdo 3/16/13 5:00 PM
I'm not entirely sure what the point of this was. IITC was undoubtedly the best community-made improvement to Ingress that was ever made. They could have EASILY made an exception for something as innovative as IITC.

Also, Github says this project has been forked 211 times. That's only on Github, too. Undoubtedly, people are continuing to work on it somewhere. I'm sure that someone will re-release something re-using a fair bit of IITC, or IITC will just be distributed away from the eyes of Google.

The head developer of IITC (btw people, multiple people made IITC) asked for permission. Google should have accepted the extension of this olive branch, not slapped it away. If anything, he should have been viewed in a more favorable light. Why not go after the people that made those auto-redemption extensions and didn't ask for permission instead?

Seriously, Google. Whatever happened to the motto of "Don't be evil"?

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Rob Wyland 3/16/13 5:10 PM
Ooops, I accidentally clicked view source and saw this:

{"gameBasket": {"deletedEntityGuids": [], "gameEntities": [], "inventory": []}, "result": [["dsfg.d", 346, {"plext": {"text": "Voondeba deployed an L1 Resonator on Benton CCSD #47: Benton Grade  (Benton, IL, United States)", "markup": [["PLAYER", {"plain": "Voondeba", "guid": "sdfgdfsg.c", "team": "ALIENS"}], ["TEXT", {"plain": " deployed an "}], ["TEXT", {"plain": "L1"}], ["TEXT", {"plain": " Resonator on "}], ["PORTAL", {"name": "Benton CCSD #47: Benton Grade ", "plain": "Benton CCSD #47: Benton Grade  (Benton, IL, United States)", "team": "ALIENS", "latE6": 345345, "address": "Benton, IL, United States", "lngE6": -345345, "guid": "dfgds"}]], "plextType": "SYSTEM_BROADCAST", "team": "ALIENS"}}], ["sdfgd.d", 345345, {"plext": {"text": "wildblue destroyed an L4 Resonator on Kimball Midwest Memorial (2525 Charter Street, Columbus, OH)", "markup": [["PLAYER", {"plain": "wildblue", "guid": "dfgd.c", "team": "RESISTANCE"}], ["TEXT", {"plain": " destroyed an "}], ["TEXT", {"plain": "L4"}], ["TEXT", {"plain": " Resonator on "}], ["PORTAL", {"name": "Kimball Midwest Memorial", "plain": "Kimball Midwest Memorial (2525 Charter Street, Columbus, OH)", "team": "ALIENS", "latE6": 34534, "address": "2525 Charter Street, Columbus, OH", "lngE6": -34534, "guid":
......
}

BAN HAMMER!!!!

Seriously Google, you are handing this out on a silver platter, what did you expect?
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Starks (L8) 3/16/13 5:12 PM
Niantic needs to create and Ingress API so this doesn't happen anymore.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Roque 3/16/13 6:05 PM
They need to bring back IITC... that tool is the only reason I've stuck around as an L8 in order to be able to properly plan strategies in portal dense areas.  IITC is a legit gaming tool, why target it?
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map David Mulligan 3/16/13 6:08 PM
The Ingress Intel page became far more usable and friendly with IITC.  If IITC is not allowed then the least that Niantic should do is learn about what made IITC so attractive and incorporate it.

Another thing is that on my Google Galaxy Nexus running the official 4.2.2 ROM and the latest Chrome m.ingress.com/intel is totally unusable.  That is I am running pure and official Google and it is so unbelievably slow past your first second scroll of the map that I choose to completely ignore it when I am out and about.  Mobile IITC is the only viable choice when it comes to intel on the mobile.

If Niantic is concerned about the game experience getting out of their control then they should work with the community rather than shut them down.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Dustin Snyder 3/16/13 6:14 PM
I have to say that I, for one, would really like to see Niantic/Google change their minds on this.

If mis-steps were taken in creating IITC, so be it - and if shutting down IITC for the moment has to be done for assorted legal protections, I'll even understand that.

But truly? The IITC map is superior to the official Ingress Map (ESPECIALLY the Public Chat filter). It would be a great boon if the official Ingress map took notes (and let the IITC team steer those sorts of updates in some fashion.)

An official statement of some sort would not be remiss either. Yes, the game is in beta, yes changes are going to happen (some that we love, some that we don't) - but something of this sort would be a good time to explain to the community.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map M0nkeyMagic 3/16/13 7:19 PM
Just wanted to add another voice. I have nothing to add not already mentioned. IITC is massive improvment on the Google supplied experience, particularly on a mobile device.

Google - sort it out.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map The Rock Show 3/16/13 7:49 PM
Agreed. The IITC was much better than the standard.  I get that it violates the TOS, but you guys at Niantic need to implement a lot of what he did sooner than later since you shut him down.
(unknown) 3/16/13 8:44 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Keith Paterson 3/17/13 12:29 AM
OMG how can we continue playing Ingress without IITC? Pointless move.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Nethershaw 3/17/13 1:38 AM
The hundreds of us who have mirrored or forked the original IITC code will continue to develop, distribute, collaborate, and improve the work. You can delete this post; you can reprimand me for speaking out; but you will not interfere further with our desire to creatively process the intelligence data that you allow to reach our machines. It is in our hands, and we will work it.

You can't stop it, Niantic; all you have done is light it on fire, and now the issue has more attention than you could possibly have wanted.

I say again: you cannot stop the signal. You can only hope to become part of it. Carefully consider your decisions as you choose your role within the community that supports the Niantic Project.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Recca 3/17/13 1:46 AM
This is a fairly strange move by Google since in kinda contradicts Google's own "the playground is open" philosophy. The only reason I can think of for Google to do this is that Ingress is in beta so Google could at anytime change the ingress data format which would break the IITC script and ruin everybody's day. If that's the case please just buy the script from the dev an incorporate it into the intel map please!!

Also after reading the TOS. It seems a bit extreme, mainly this one:
(c) access the Product or Content through any technology or means other than those provided by Google (including without limitation automation software, bots, spiders, or hacks or devices of any kind);

If I interpret this right, if I verbally ask a player what level they are then I am violating the TOS as my vocal cords have not be supplied by Google. At least not yet anyway :)

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map John DeBellotte 3/17/13 4:15 AM
I didn't expect Google to act like Apple on this one. Dumbest ruling I've ever seen from them. Hope it's not the beginning of the end for Google sensibility and open source.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Julian Chow 3/17/13 4:17 AM
+1
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Bruno Škvorc 3/17/13 4:36 AM
Guys, I think some of you are missing the point. Niantic isn't evil - they simply enforced a rule they have written in advance. Indeed, had the developer asked for permission beforehand, it may have been allowed. I suggest the people who have forked the IITC ask for permission collectively, before continuing to work on it. That way we can avoid this fiasco in the future.

Anyway, Niantic isn't evil for doing this, just like cops aren't bastards for writing you a fine when you doublepark like an idiot - break the rules and face the consequences.

What they did wrong here wasn't asking the original dev to take it down, but not improving their own map or giving us API *before* asking him to take it down. In that regard, they rendered their game unplayable - I for one will no longer plan attacks, I'll simply throw out a hack whenever I can if I happen to walk past a portal. I don't want #Ingress to become a chore, and by forcing us to use the stock map *before* banning a better one, they've turned it into exactly that - a chore I won't be a part of any more.

(unknown) 3/17/13 4:49 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Ro Ver 3/17/13 4:52 AM
Bruno the point is that g/n can't monetise the use of third party scripts so sends scary take down requests to people under the guise of their tos. They can however monetise the data farmed from children playing so openly ignores this clause in their tos. They are making a fundamental mistake however. Just like sim city - the data literate will not stand for being herded and manipulated in this way. Just look at the number of new forks and alternative hosts for the script that have appeared in the last 24 hours. They have only publicized it and now ensured that iitc and other scripts will continue regardless. If they applied the rules consistently then this s*** storm could have been easily avoided
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map InI4 former L8 3/17/13 4:59 AM
The Niantic project feels kind of very "ungooglish" to me. OK, this is my first Google beta, but I am surprised to see:

  • The App is fairly poor, burns lots of precious power, even when idle, crashes, restarts, needed resets. And they hardly fix more errors from build to build, than they build in new ones. And those layout issues. I mean every book about app development contains a chapter how to cope with it.
  • The stability of the services is not very high. Just to mention, the strange error messages are not a cool Niantic research topic, they are a nuisance.
  • The UI usability of both App and Webservers are poor. Some informations can be found which can't be found there and the other way round. Wandering over different sources of information, over different screens within those source to stitch together useful information, feels rather like using an old mainframe than 2013

And now there is a tool which is fairly streamlined and provides lots of useful information in one place. And instead of staying ahead of the development they command shut down? This is more like Niantic is following an Apple lock strategy than a Google one.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map John Gale 3/17/13 5:26 AM
What I don't understand is why google are sending the data down to the browser if they aren't utilising it in their own UI. What did they expect to happen? If they didn't want it displayed/used then they shouldn't be making it avalible.

Bring back IITC

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Triggerfish 3/17/13 5:47 AM
There's a petition to bring IITC back at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/free-iitc/

No idea if it will have any impact on Google, but the way I look at it, the more venues we try to persuade Google that it's a bad idea to not authorise it (which I guess they can now that all the code has been pulled, so the developer can start it again as a new project, complete with authorisation), the better.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map simonsaint 3/17/13 7:53 AM
I agree.
Why take down such a great work, hard labor contributed to the world without greater financial interests - at least without selling it, and you know a lot people would have paid for it - for a "uhh, look at our policies..."?

Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.
There are so many guys out there contributing; like those from Zealand where you can download your personal badge and so on, so on, so on. Contributing is even part of the basic game when you think about portal submission.

That guy that did not encourage cheating, did not impersonate, never told that he was related with Niantics nor Google, or what so ever. His indeed helpful tool only showed up very helpful information for those who wanted to get really deep into the game, understand it and play it as it was meant to be.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Markus Eyrich 3/17/13 8:07 AM
Niantic/Google that is CRAP! Total Conversion is the way the intel map should have been from the beginning. But you will learn, as every developer...the people using your stuff will show you. If everyone stops using your game (i know this won't happen) you will see what is good and what is bad.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Marc Letford 3/17/13 8:19 AM
check out the lack of involvement in this debate by niantec folks - its a done deal and I am 'googling' other gps games tbh.

I never did understand why they kicked off a storyline that demands a lot of creativity and time nearly two years before release without much more testing of the software and game mechanics. Who gives a monkey for shapers and puzzles tbh when the software is buggy and the UI is bare bones. Maybe this is a dressed up data mining exercise and the core concept will be sold to industry etc rather than  released as a game to the public.. lol. Given they cant even scrape a functional UI together I guess I am over-blowing niantecs capability ;)

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map TimRiker L8 3/17/13 8:45 AM
I will miss IITC! My impression is that this app uses the same bandwidth that the stock map site uses, but does a much better job of presenting the information to the user.

Perhaps Google will consider including the features of this open project and improve the performance and usability of the stock map?

Not having IITC will make planning ops harder. We'll go on, but growth will be slower and activity will be lower. Perhaps that's what Niantic wants? A break for them on the server side? Fewer active players makes the servers easier to maintain.

(unknown) 3/17/13 9:39 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Ro Ver 3/17/13 9:40 AM
This game has always been just a way to persuade people to swith on their location settings so google can collate and then monetise your location data. google earth didn't cut the mustard, never got used much. Android was their next attempt and everyone just switched off the location settings. This did work for them but have no illusions that google gives a damn about you. you are not the user, you are the product. now they are moving on to facebook and other avenues to get people to play (Closed beta, dont make me laugh. remeber when everyone was creaming themselves to get an invite to use google+ ?) they dont care if there is a drop off of players, they have the numbers they need to sell the data into their targeted marketing business. If Niantic had any integrety then they would address the discussions going on. I even re-posted a querie about the legitimacy of de-code ingress in the D-C I g+group as it is against the TOS to "~ TOS snippet ~ (a) copy, translate, modify, or make derivative works of the Products, the Content or any part thereof;... " and Rik Finn defended his group saying that they dont mean them cos they're part of the game. paid by google maybe but they say they are an unoffical group and therefor break niantics TOCs just as much as IITC. thankfully, the hydra effect is in ful swing and IITC is now available all over the place. this fork works fine, for instance along with hundreds of others
https://github.com/jonatkins/ingress-intel-total-conversion#readme
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Scott Schultz 3/17/13 11:54 AM
At an absolutely bare minimum, Niantic needs to fix the photos on the Intel map so that they are scaled properly. I can't believe that such a simple flaw is still in the map after all these months.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Krojack 3/17/13 12:23 PM
Yeah this is stupid.  Google has started driving nails in the Ingress coffin.  Looks like I'll be quitting once I hit L8 which may happen in the next 1-2 weeks.

The raw version of the Intel map is horrible.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jim Schoorl 3/17/13 12:44 PM
3. Content...
...
...
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Matt Zophiel 3/17/13 4:06 PM
OK, can we all back off the hyperbole a bit? The TOS were pretty clear that mods require prior permission. They do so because the public API hasn't been released yet. This is a Beta game with a total crew of 40(ish) to code, approve portals, add a new episode to Niantic Project every day, arrange big events and so forth. The best estimate I've heard is that its due out of Beta some time at the end of 2014.

So yes, if someone asks for official word on something they didn't get prior approval on, they're going to be told no. If they ask for official approval they'll be told (and have been) "wait for the API". The API isn't first priority. Upgrading the map isn't first priority. Getting the intel map and the scanner to function flawlessly during large events is. Just because the work is on the back end where we can't see it doesn't mean its not there.

All that said, yeah, I have a feature list as long as my arm. Everything in IITC is on that list and a good bit more. But I'm not going to take my football and go home (or threaten to) or claim its going to Ruin Ingress Forever just because its not coming fast enough.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Michael Hall 3/17/13 4:55 PM
Another interesting consequence of the TOS prohibiting "derivative works" is that it arguably prohibits the creation of most of the really interesting art that certain G+ accounts have been so fond of sharing with the world.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Roman Athens 3/17/13 5:12 PM
What an excellent point. Hurry up and ban all creative works that might violate the TOS. All player created art and projects that infringe on the games property should be banned and removed as well. You can't have it both ways. All or none.

Let the Total Conversion live.

SAVE IITC!

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Triggerfish 3/17/13 5:18 PM
I would agree that we should back off on the hyperbole. I would also say that there's no reason why they shouldn't allow IITC either. They're not beholden to the IITC developers as to how their unpublished API works, so if they choose to change it and it breaks IITC, that's not their problem.

In the meantime, they have someone developing features for the game that they can use either as inspiration for their own once they get ready to release, or adopt as their own. Either way, they don't lose out.

I've made my (polite and hopefully helpful) suggestions to Google on the iPetitions page.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Kenny Wells 3/18/13 1:46 AM
While yes, the developer would have required prior consent, but that doesn't stop Google from granting the consent after the fact in order to continue the development of IITC.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Scott Schultz 3/18/13 8:08 AM
What +Kenny Wells said. Yes, the TOS are clear. That doesn't prevent Google from giving consent. If the plug-in architecture was an issue then they'd just give permission contingent on removing that functionality.

When the company's own product (the intel map) is inferior to the third-party version, the thing to do is to license that work to the third party and promote the game, not blindly wave the TOS around and ban the mod.

It's just ludicrous that we still can't see a proper photo of a portal on the stock intel map, never mind all of the other improvements of the IITC.

(unknown) 3/18/13 8:51 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Eric Hansen 3/18/13 2:38 PM
Back in January I submitted over 30 faulty portal reports of various types to Niantic. After a month, they replied back they needed more detailed addresses. Approximate address doesn't work when the portals are within five feet of each other. When I asked how I could overcome this using Niantic's Intel or the app itself, they helpfully said "just get close". Yes, that is what I did the first time. Obviously Niantic is unable to deal with reports conforming to their own instructions.

At that time, I downloaded IITC and used it to get the precise coordinates and portal ID number for every one of those 30+ portals again and submitted individual reports for each one. It's now been another month, and no action yet taken.

Without IITC, I cannot generate the accuracy that Niantic requires for portal reporting.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Brandon Burton 3/18/13 7:54 PM
It is sad. Honestly, there really isn't anything stopping him from continuing to develop. I am glad to see that he is willing to shut his project down to comply with Niantic. However, they should just give him special dispensation and let him continue working on it.

The old intel map just plain sucks compared to IITC.

Google, please let him continue to develop this!

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Brandon Burton 3/18/13 7:56 PM
Very good point. I guess they should just shut down all of the fan sites as well then.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map hmmwhatsthisdo 3/18/13 7:59 PM
Just to clarify, people. It's not a *him*. It's a *they*. IITC might have been hosted by Mr. Breunigs, but there were at least 50 people who made commits to the GitHub repo for IITC.

Google is not going to buy it from them, because that requires express permission of every single contributor.

Google's not going to hire all 50 either.

Hiring and purchasing are out of the question.

It doesn't mean, however, that Google can't do anything. They could easily recognize this source of innovation and allow it to flourish.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Agent45 3/18/13 8:20 PM
I agree -- I like the total conversion much more than the regular intel map.  Please allow this project to continue or hire them to make your map better.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map SilverAlucard 3/19/13 8:26 AM
Hi google,


as a new user in Ingress (have being playing for 3 weeks now) i think the current intel map do not help either faction for gameplay, the current map is always having issues, always presenting information that is not accurate, and do not work in Mobile phones, the IITC scrypt gave me a new light on Intel after intalling it, i was able to see almost real time all changes, apply passcodes without any issues or page error, i was able to plan my moves ahead of times in order to visit the portals that i wanted to hack/attack even in my country that do not have tomuch portals is a good way to also see where i can go and request a portal based on real time data and how each faction is doing.


you should consider either allow the developers of the IITC on writing to continue working on the scrypt (that is using basically the same information that is in your intel map but better) or work with them to create a better Intel map for all users (mobile included) since this game is more about mobile that a desktop

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Eric Coulombe 3/19/13 8:36 AM
The sad part is that google is not google anymore i think... we are exactly the kind of fanns a project like Ingress was build for... persons who like to go more on an application... "programmers" Fans, "scripters", decoders, all sort of power users... no suprise that each time niantic tries soem new "codes" they are deocded and sometimes decoded beyond what they would have tought, that is who we are...

But lately i just dont know what happened to google... dropping free googlemap api, Igoogle, now Reader... all thing "power users" like us are using every day... juste like they dont need us anymore... they have enought of "causal" users now... why bother with geeks anymore....    Nintendo did that....  

Hope they will realise we are driving the improvement we are driving lambda users to their product, i just cannot count how many persons have been converted by me to use google as sercj, avce initiated manyso many persons to igoogle, and many more to reader... now almost all of that is gone....  

Google please don`t do evil and respect us... scripter, developper, power users....

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map red 3/19/13 2:33 PM
Or they could copy it from what I see it is an open source
(unknown) 3/19/13 3:11 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Joshua Hill 3/19/13 4:44 PM
I would like to make a few points regarding your decision that Ingress Intel Total Conversion (IITC) violated the Ingress Terms of Service (ToS) agreement (http://www.ingress.com/terms), and asking the author to remove the script set and suspend work on all Ingress development.

It isn't clear to me that reformatting the data sent to my web client is a violation of the Ingress ToS.  The relevant section of the ToS agreement seems to be in section 3, which states "... you shall not:  ... (c) access the Product or Content through any technology or means other than those provided by Google... (d) extract, scrape, or index the Products or Content...".

Firefox, IE, and Safari are similarly not provided by Google, and I am surely using them to "access the Product or Content" via the stock Ingress Intel map; is viewing the Ingress Intel map on anything other than Google Chrome a ToS violation as well? What about a bit of local browser configuration that makes the font somewhat more readable? Changes the color to accommodate users who have limited eyesight, and thus need higher contrast maps? More reasonably displays photos? This describes most of the features of the IITC!

Similarly, it seems difficult to argue that any of these activities really constitute anything prohibited in (d), as the IITC is the Ingress Intel map, just in a different format. The more advanced plugins provide only a convenient interface for accomplishing the same tasks that can be done by separate calculating applications (e.g., the Ingress Portal Calculator, etc.). These separate calculating applications are wholly allowed by your terms of service.

Irrespective of the ToS issue, the IITC provides a useable informational resource that makes the Intel map both more helpful and somewhat less aggravating.  Frankly, the standard Intel map is a mess, and the rate of its development is glacial.  I understand that Niantic is resource constrained, but in this case it so happens that you have a large passionate volunteer expert-level labor force working on a project that helps the entire player community.  Not many people have such a resource, but you have been blessed by it here.

So, here's the choice that you were presented with:

Choice 1: encourage the 50-60 people doing free work for you, improving your product and benefitting your entire user community. This costs you nothing. You could even signal that you value their time by coordinating with them on data changes. You benefit, the user community benefits, your volunteer labor force feels appreciated, and your influence within the nascent open Ingress developer community grows. Your user community sees that you are willing to try to overcome your resource problems, and are thus more willing to forgive slow roll outs of... well, just about everything other than artificial-feeling product tie-ins that interfere with game dynamics.

Choice 2: Demand that they abandon the work they have been doing because it is violation of a deliberately vague ToS agreement. Ignore the user community's complaints that this decision seems capricious and petty. For a little bit of extra pepper, delete posts by users pointing out that the project that you are in effect shutting down was open source, and will thus move to a set of authors who are prepared to ignore Niantic's input. In this case, your user community gets the distinct impression that you don't give a damn about them, because you are apparently going out of your way to make their playing experience less enjoyable.

I think that "Choice 1" was the obvious one, but you apparently didn't think so.

Your reaction is dumbfounding. It's like you are a homeowner yelling at the volunteer fire brigade who is using your pool water to try extinguish your burning house because of the posted firm "no splashing" policy.

So Niantic: Please allow the IITC to continue.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Makermike 3/19/13 9:26 PM
I too think that killing IITC is a bad idea. But my biggest rant is that they are putting so much energy into killing this, all the while Cheaters are running wild. I know of more than a half dozen players in my area that cheat in one way or another. From simple multiple account cheaters, "GPS Spoofers", and in a couple cases scanner hacks that allow unlimited items or allow cache files to be manipulated. And yes many of the cheaters have been reported but are still playing. The stiffest penalty I have seen is a three day suspension and that player is right back to his cheating ways.  

I realize that Google may be handcuffed by privacy laws in some regards but you can not tell me that game play statistic analysis does not or can not produce a view of unfair practices or anomalies that are not possible by playing the game correctly.

Forgive me if this post exceeds the scope of this string, but there are many things that need attention and I find it very sad that Google has stretched itself so thin that they can not regulated and improve game play in a timely manner. If nothing else get the severs upgraded or more bandwidth. I live in an area with less than 2M in population in a 100 mile radius and we have to suffer through at least 2-3 periods daily of down servers or an over abundant amount of server errors.

come on guys lets make this better!!!!

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Mobilis59 3/20/13 1:50 AM
I too think that going against IITC is a bad move (read "totally stupid").
What are you thinking at Niantic ?
IITC is using Ingress content ? But we all are ! We are playing Ingress, looking at the maps, we are taking pictures, creating portals... We are using Ingress content, better even: WE are CREATING Ingress content !!!
What are you looking for ? To disappoint your users ? Well done then... I'm pissed...

Great week: this, after Google killing GReader...
I'm really thinking about my net allegiances today.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Kevin C. 3/20/13 9:49 AM
I agree Joshua, it doesn't make sense to me that a client side browser script is a violation of their ToS. It's just a normal feature of web browsers, including Google's very own Chrome.

Please bring IITC back! Or hire the developers and build it in to the main map. Either way works for me.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jason Merrell 3/20/13 11:22 AM
Just look at how many games have benefited from custom scripts.  How many devs have encouraged them!

This is not a positive way to start a game that is in it's infancy, Google.  Your tools are insufficient; that's why the IITC came into being in the first place, and why it was clearly so popular.

I don't know where you go from here.  If you feel changing your mind would show weakness, please be assured it would be received as a wise decision.

Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Marc Letford 3/20/13 11:43 AM
Seems to me that Niantec have just ruined a large user base from having info that many have available quietly. I know Players who have their own scripts with portal key numbers on the map and such. Most keep it to themselves and it seems likely they will do better for it with a community version removed. Nerfing for balance is one thing, but this is hugely out of balance now. My son has checked the code and points out how easy this info is available. I think you just capped Google's failing reputation.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Devastus 3/21/13 1:27 AM
I hope that this decision will be reconsidered. IITC was far superior to the stock experience.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Thomas Käfer 3/22/13 8:00 AM
Okey, so your ToS says that your players

"shall not:  ... (c) access the Product or Content through any technology or means other than those provided by Google"

So the only way to not violate this is to access your services with Nexus devices running your app, and the intel website can also be viewed on Chromebooks. Is that right?

It doesn't look like you're trying to enforce this rule on other frontiers, so why did you kill IITC?

Or is you're motto simply "don't ask, don't tell"? Since there exist a lot of other projects that haven't recieved a notice from you to shutdown.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Scott Curtner 3/23/13 8:19 AM
Please bring back IICT support. It was awesome.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Ron Rossman Jr 3/24/13 4:57 AM
No offense 101, but obviously you havent thought your comments out... everything you state (when you make your moves etc) is *already time stamped in the in game chat window or intel website*

This doesnt pull any more info than what the intel website or in game info shows but presents it in a *much* cleaner/clearer way.

Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map DagwoodB 3/28/13 10:56 PM
Sad to see Google shutting it down.   It should embrace it and understand how to improve the /Intel page as well as the actual scanner app.

Embrace it and learn,  stop 'burning books'  Se to speak...

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Ian Spencer 4/2/13 9:20 PM
The intel map is made very difficult to use. How do you get a print out to plan a trip, you can't get anything of use due to the black background. It is very un usable on the phone also. IITC seem to have made a very polished product, employ the people who made it, imagine what they could do with the obvious ability and skills if properly resourced. Everything I can think of Google is involved in is clean and easy to read except ingress. Imagine reading Gmail with the ingress design team choosing the scheme used in ingress. It has to be deliberate action but I can't see why. Is it to make people with poor eyesight disadvantaged?
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map radwolf76 4/2/13 10:14 PM
Standard Google Maps Satellite View is an option on the Intel Map as provided by Niantic, if that helps your printing situation any.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Ian Spencer 4/3/13 3:07 AM
Thanks just found that but still not good for printing like IITC where you can turn off the satellite and just have a readable map.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Dryunya 4/3/13 8:27 PM
One feature I geniunely miss and that's not supported on the regular intel map is the link direction. IITC shows the number of incoming and outgoing links, which allows you to guess the link direction. That's useful to predict the location of the key spawn when the link is broken, which is a lifesaver when it comes to links between the cities.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Krojack 4/8/13 10:43 AM
I love the IITC and use it.  I also want to see it continue.  I only have one problem with it.

The filtering of portals levels to show.

You can hide all but say L7 & L8 portals making it easy to find them.  If this feature was removed then it would take more work to find the high level portal farms.  Right now neither faction can secretly put together a small L8 farm without it being destroyed within 24 hours.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map radwolf76 4/8/13 11:00 AM
What about people who just zoom out on the standard intel map until just L7-L8 are displayed? Sure, if there's a farm of them close together, the portal icons will be pretty much overlapping at that zoom level, but you just need to know where the L7&8s are, then you can zoom back in and see if it's a lone portal or a farm.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Liam W 4/9/13 9:38 AM
Good question. I got my invite from an Ingress staff member on G+ and they didn't even bat an eyelid.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Krojack 4/9/13 1:11 PM
When zooming out on the normal ingress map just to see L7/8 portals works BUT it doesn't pinpoint where the portal is exactly.  You can just see there are some L8 portals in the city somewhere.  the IITC alls you to zoom in and see just those portals and what street corner they are on.

At least with the normal Intel map you would have to click through all the portals till you find the L8 portals.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Snowman 4/10/13 7:02 AM
This App was a great aide when it came to strategically placing links and fields. I'm not sure how that was a cheat in anyway. 
You should pay these app programmers for doing what your guys should have been and integrate ever last of their ideas into you app.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Kyle Dagg 4/26/13 2:49 PM
I have to agree with this sentiment as well. Specifically speaking, the ability to better filter the comm with more information of each type in each section was great. Being able to have detailed information about each portal was extremely beneficial to strategics, and for improving my own methods. The next aspect that really stuck out with me was that I could better search for new portals due to unclaimed portals showing up at a higher zoom level.

There were, of course, some flaws with IICT that could have been worked on or cut. But overall my thought is that Google should either be allowing such benevolent scripts to continue and/or look to IICT as great example of how they can improve their own intel page.

I'm sad to have lost the ability to use this script, but more sad to have lost the wonderful functionality that I was enjoying. And while I understand, I'm sad that Google have chosen to take this stance here.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Leif Sikorski 6/2/13 3:06 AM
I totally agree. They should hire the guy and implement it into the mobile app.

So far the users with a laptop have a huge advantage compared to other users because the map in the ingress app is so useless.  Too much distracting effects, no overview, bad viewing angle and the map is way too small. An integration of the iitc mobile app would make it much more fair and fix the biggest current issues of ingress.

(unknown) 6/2/13 7:21 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Steven Loveland 6/25/13 12:54 PM
Could agree more. Shutting down IITC would cripple the game and send us back to the dark ages.

Why are google not just agreeing to work with the developer(s) rather than slap out the T&C as their response - This is NOT in the free spirit of the internet that google is suppose to support!

I dont think this 'Add-On' helps you cheat, it allow you to create a better strategy, which lets face it - is the whole reason for the game.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jeff Level 8 6/25/13 12:59 PM
as we sit here with the service down, probably from the mountain of requests iitc generates on each call. BAN IITC and DISABLE ALL THE CHEATERS USING IT
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Sean Graham 6/25/13 1:29 PM
Jeff,

Right now it's actually a massive Google Apps Engine problem: https://code.google.com/status/appengine

Furthermore if you check the IITC development discussion list you can see that they go through great pains to ensure that they do not call the server more than vanilla intel.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Krojack 6/25/13 1:39 PM
On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 3:59:44 PM UTC-4, Jeff Level 8 wrote:
as we sit here with the service down, probably from the mountain of requests iitc generates on each call. BAN IITC and DISABLE ALL THE CHEATERS USING IT

1. Cheaters don't use IITC.
2. It would be almost impossible to ban.
3. I'm pretty sure it's been tweaked to the point that it makes no more calls than the standard Intel site (default settings) if not less calls due to better caching.

Even though Niantic has said it's against the ToS and asked the original author to take it down, Niantic has not sent any take down notices to the current host and author(s).  The new maintainers are working hard to keep IITC at a "view only" system and prevent plugins that allow people to export and save data to then be imported into other apps.

So either you're trolling or you truly think the Intel site is down because of IITC, I can assure you that's not the case.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Toasteroo 6/25/13 1:44 PM
Jeff, what IITC does is to visualize some data that is being sent anyway but not shown on the standard map. A call to the standard map will return stuff like the distance of each resonator to the portal for each portal on the map (at least for higher zoom levels). This call is the same for IITC and the reply is also the same, the standard map just throws a lot of information away after it has been transferred to the user. The second thing IITC does is to make statistics and stuff from that same data. (I do not agree with all features IITC offers btw but that is a different matter).
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jeff Level 8 6/25/13 2:13 PM
Sean -  I know what the real issue is.

Krojack - 

yes cheaters do use iitc, if it is not OFFICIALLY licensed by Niantic then IMO that is cheating, if you dont think its cheating thats fine too, to me it is cheating. Ill give them credit they have reduced the calls by a lot, but look through all the code, still lots of extra stuff not needed. 

Toasteroo - if its being sent and not shown and you alter and insert extra code to force it to show, this  is altering the original intended use of that data, and that is cheating my friend, plain and simple.

It's easy to spot the cheaters as they get defensive when there called out cause they know deep down it is cheating.


Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jeff Level 8 6/25/13 2:14 PM
also Krojack if you think its impossible to ban you have a lot to learn about coding and detection.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Christian Louis 6/25/13 2:21 PM
Jeff,

while I agree with you on the fact that IITC violates the ToS, the question on whether using it is considered to be cheating (at least officially, resulting in taking action against fellow players who do so), is something we all can only speculate about.

I guess everybody has its own opinion about IITC and whether using it is cheating or not; I for myself find it very useful when submitting portals as the OpenStreetMap overlay features Points of Interest that are very good in finding new potential portal locations, but I am also fully aware of the fact that the tool is against the ToS.
Is it cheating if I only use it when scouting for portals? Maybe. Maybe not. 

If somebody is offended by that, (s)he is free to open a ticket with Niantic and let them decide on a case-by-case scenario. Maybe they'll issue a slap on the wrist, maybe they'll let it slide, maybe they'll take hard action. We don't know as Niantic won't comment on this publicly, according to their own policies.

- Christian


Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Krojack 6/25/13 2:26 PM
On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 5:14:20 PM UTC-4, Jeff Level 8 wrote:
also Krojack if you think its impossible to ban you have a lot to learn about coding and detection.

I do it for a living, 14 years and counting. 
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jeff Level 8 6/25/13 2:59 PM
"OpenStreetMap overlay features Points of Interest that are very good in finding new potential portal locations"

 yep, the open street map does this by itself, sans iitc, you can use that right, or no?

"Is it cheating if I only use it when scouting for portals? Maybe. Maybe not." -  if it is against the TOS and not officially licensed it is cheating, again IMO. 

Christain -  So you're saying you know it violates the TOS but it may not be cheating?. I agree that everyone has their opinion and that is mine, it is cheating, IMO and says volumes about the people using it. again IMO 

Answer me this: Does using IITC give you an advantage in anyway over someone who is not using it?.  If that answer is yes then that "advantage" is cheating. Again IMO



and you're still trying to sit there and say its impossible to ban? Yikes :)
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Kevin C. 6/25/13 3:14 PM
On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 4:59:09 PM UTC-5, Jeff Level 8 wrote:
> Answer me this: Does using IITC give you an advantage in anyway over someone who is not using it?.  If that answer is yes then that "advantage" is cheating. Again IMO

All the additional data viewable in IITC is viewable in the vanilla Intel on the Chrome browser using the built in developer tools. It just looks far uglier and would be difficult for the average user. It could probably be argued that IITC actually levels the playing field, by making the same data that otherwise only developers or their immediate circle of friends would have available to the average player.
 
> and you're still trying to sit there and say its impossible to ban? Yikes :)

This suggests to me you're not familiar with the history of attempting to ban altered clients to network services. It *is not possible* to validate that a remote machine is running the code you want it to be running. It's possible to make it difficult, but there are always workarounds. In the extreme case, you can always run the original code inside a sandbox to perform the magic client validation algorithms, and then spy on or alter the rest of the communications.

It's a rule in network gaming protocols that if you don't want a player to have information, you don't send it to the client. This rule is sometimes broken in order to do lag compensation, but if you do so you open up the avenue for cheats.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jeff Level 8 6/25/13 3:30 PM
Kevin C.

"It's possible to make it difficult, but there are always workarounds. In the extreme case, you can always run the original code inside a sandbox to perform the magic client validation algorithms, and then spy on or alter the rest of the communications. "

completely agreed, but there are ways to make it very difficult. many many was in fact. Like i said its up to the player to decide if they want to use it. I consider it cheating, if you ALL don't agree then that is your right.


Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Ron Rossman Jr 6/25/13 6:34 PM
IITC is about the only way you can print out a section of map before you make a long drive to drop a field or whatever. Prior to the addition of nearby portals, it was a major PITA to find ones in more remote areas.

Printing with the normal Intel map looks like total poop even using chrome. The info box and other stuff are positioned completely wrong and you end up with a 4x3 usable map.

I also wish with the regular map you could see unclaimed portals from a more zoomed out view. Again, in more remote areas its nearly impossible to find a new portal you had accepted that got dropped off the mark.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Krojack 6/26/13 9:03 AM
On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 9:34:42 PM UTC-4, Ron Rossman Jr wrote:

I also wish with the regular map you could see unclaimed portals from a more zoomed out view. Again, in more remote areas its nearly impossible to find a new portal you had accepted that got dropped off the mark.

The email you get that says the portal is online should contain a URL straight to the portal.  Would solve this problem.  Will have to post this in suggestions.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Christian Louis 6/26/13 10:34 AM
Krojack,

No need, this is already a frequently requested feature. Which reminds me of....yes. It's a FRF.

- Christian
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Xtrem Zen 9/1/13 1:13 PM
It's already a pain in the butt to play INGRESS here in China knowing that they regularly scramble the GPS system, but and since IITC if off the game is barely doable.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map InI4 former L8 9/1/13 2:17 PM
As a solo rogue casual player, I haven't used the map for 3 months now. It saves tremendous time, but I must confess it renders huge fields, actions  or even team play, the eye in the sky, impossible. But so do many of the game rules ..
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Philip 9/1/13 11:20 PM
IITC is a fantastic framework that provides features to the game that would otherwise be lacking. I genuinely appreciate the work the IITC developers are doing.  It's made the game a lot more fun for myself and a lot of other players globally.  I hope Niantic works with the IITC developers rather than against them because these developers have helped to popularize Ingress and they ask for nothing in return.  If an API comes out later on, that's great, but for now let the great team behind IITC work their magic.  They aren't hurting the game by making it more fun to play and adding depth of strategy.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map InI4 former L8 9/2/13 3:34 AM
Thanks for that last point Philip. IITC was adding considerable strategic depth to the game! But Niantic has shown a tendency to kill strategy with most of their last changes, so it fits in the overall picture.

I've been the local eye in the sky quite a few times. Accessing all possible information, and trying to predict the opponents next moves, the car jump to a different farm, finding the building of a farm early, this was a really exciting part of the game for me once. Without the IITC this would hardly been possible, it is possible to access most of the information via Intel and client (especially given enough keys), but it is slow, way to slow.

However these eye in the sky tactics became less interesting 4 months ago, when farming the opponents farm became a good alternative and taking down farms became harder and harder to predict, due to the shield and link vagueness, not to mention those virus/refactor things which were actually against all planning.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jeff Level 8 9/4/13 8:46 AM
Couldn't be happier this tools is biting the dust.  I hope they ban all who use it. Intel map works fine, just requires a little more brain power to use it.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Krojack 9/4/13 10:29 AM
Sounds as if you have used it at one point or another.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jeff Level 8 9/4/13 10:30 AM
cant say i have
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Sean Graham 9/4/13 10:41 AM
Couldn't be happier this tools is biting the dust

Who said it's biting the dust?
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Krojack 9/4/13 10:46 AM
Then you can't really speak as you don't know what it's like or how nice some of the tools are.  In fact they have added 1 or 2 things from IITC into the stock Intel map.

Some of the advantages are but not limited to:
- Resonator level percent display
- MUCH faster map overlay loading and dragging around
- Chat is broken down into more tabs thus making it easier to read.

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Krojack 9/4/13 10:50 AM
On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 1:41:11 PM UTC-4, Sean Graham wrote:
Couldn't be happier this tools is biting the dust

Who said it's biting the dust?
 
Exactly.  Niantic will never be able to block it.  When you're dealing with a website and having to send coding to a browser (open sourced one at that) using standards, people will always be able to manipulate the output.  Best thing for Niantic to do is add these features to their map or just let the community do as they wish, which will happen either way.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jeff Level 8 9/4/13 11:37 AM
Krojack that might be the silliest statement form you yet :). I know everything about it. There are these things called books and the "internet" that allow you to do research, lots of my teammates use it. I also know lots about engines, although never have built one. again books :P

They will be able to block it, just as they have this time. its a chrome extension. 
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jeff Level 8 9/4/13 11:38 AM
well not a chrome extension per se but you know what i mean
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Sioban 9/4/13 12:56 PM
Plz dont Fred the troll...
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Krojack 9/5/13 10:40 AM
Please explain how they can and will block it?
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map radwolf76 9/5/13 10:57 AM
They couldn't block it, but they could starve it into malnutrition. All they have to do is stop serving up all the hidden data that doesn't get displayed on the vanilla intel map. Vanilla intel map doesn't visibly show how far from the portal each resonator is deployed or what the rarity level of the mods are? Then stop including that info in the source code.

You'd still probably get people using it for the other features that aren't based on hidden info, such as the better comm traffic partitioning and the draw tools, but it'd even the playing field between the haves and the have nots.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Sean Graham 9/5/13 2:20 PM
Or better yet, actually include that in the vanilla intel map.

However things like player tracker don't need any additional data, and are the things that make people worry about IITC over.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Jeff Level 8 9/6/13 9:51 AM
i wont write a 6 page explanation on how to block it, but it is possible. as you can clearly see cause IITC has to keep releasing a new version to overcome the "block"

Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Dryunya 9/6/13 9:55 AM
Maybe you'll just sum it up in a couple of sentences? I'm interested in your answer.
(Ok, who am I kidding...)
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Sean Graham 9/6/13 11:59 AM
Jeff - IITC has to keep re-releasing because they took shortcuts before and hard-coded the protocol into their modifications.  However it's been reworked so that this isn't necessary anymore.

The point is - it's a client-side enhancement based on what's already provided.  If the browser can display the information, so can IITC.  The worst that they can do is make it inoperable for a day or two until it gets modified to handle whatever Niantic throws at it.

The thing is that there are far more people supporting IITC than people working at Niantic.  Fighting it is a losing battle, and I strongly suspect that's not actually Niantic's intention.  This is just probably a testing ground for more substantial game-related obfuscations (because it's easy to test and release without having to send out a scanner update).
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map Krojack 9/9/13 9:26 AM
On Friday, September 6, 2013 12:51:36 PM UTC-4, Jeff Level 8 wrote:
i wont write a 6 page explanation on how to block it, but it is possible. as you can clearly see cause IITC has to keep releasing a new version to overcome the "block"

Which isn't hard seeing as they patch it in a day and everyones browsers auto-update with the new patched script.  That's one of the awesome things about an open community project.  You don't rely on waiting on one person, anyone can update it that knows how.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map marstone 9/28/13 12:15 PM
According to the IITC quality vs. Niantic's, It is Niantic that should be shutting down.
Re: Niantic shutting down Ingress Intel Total Conversion map casserras 9/28/13 8:31 PM
And thus ending Niantic will end the game. Great idea.
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