What is the Status of Yojimbo/iCloud Compatibility?

[NinjaC]

I love Yojimbo, but I'm starting to have issues related to delaying my
move to iCloud from Mobile Me, and I got an email from Apple last week
suggesting that I migrate. Lion has been out for six months now.

[Patrick Woolsey]

In summary:

We are still working on this, and will have a future version of Yojimbo
with iCloud support prior to the MobileMe sunset date (of Jun 30, 2012).

Regards,

Patrick Woolsey
==
Bare Bones Software, Inc. <http://www.barebones.com>
P.O. Box 1048, Bedford, MA 01730-1048

[Tomball]

It's mid-March. How much longer do we have to wait? Give us a hint.
March, April, May

I have to move to iCloud by the second week of May as I'm leaving on a
six week ride to Canada & Alaska.

Once again I feel like Yojimbo is the red headed stepchild of your
products.

[Patrick Woolsey]

Tomball <steve....@gmail.com> sez:

>It's mid-March. How much longer do we have to wait? Give us a hint.
>March, April, May
>
>I have to move to iCloud by the second week of May as I'm leaving on a
>six week ride to Canada & Alaska.

As of today I can only say with surety what I have before, i.e. that we
will have a version of Yojimbo with iCloud support ready prior to the

[Tomball]

30 June doesn't work for me as I'll be on the road for six weeks at that point.

On Monday, March 19, 2012 7:43:55 AM UTC-5, Patrick Woolsey wrote:

Tomball sez:

[Kel Stewart]

Patrick,

Can you please ensure all future software releases are scheduled with me to ensure that it doesn't interfere with my personal plans. Or you know, release it when it's fully baked and not before.

Cheers

[Patrick Woolsey]

Tomball <steve....@gmail.com> wrote:
>30 June doesn't work for me as I'll be on the road for six weeks at that
>point.
>

Sorry but I can't offer you specific advice here since I don't have enough
background; I'll follow up separately.

[Bryan Bagwell]

The sun sets in 80 days!  I hope you guys come up with a solid, tested solution and not some patchwork stab at it.  I have not used Yojimbo since the day I moved to iCloud last year and will not use it again until it works the way it is supposed to.

[Charlie Garrison]

Good morning,

On 11/04/12 at 6:47 AM -0700, Bryan Bagwell <bbag...@gmail.com> wrote:

>The sun sets in 80 days! I hope you guys come up with a solid,
>tested solution and not some patchwork stab at it. I have not
>used Yojimbo since the day I moved to iCloud last year and will
>not use it again until it works the way it is supposed to.

That's a bit agro, Yojimbo *does* work the way it's supposed to,
just not the way you *want* it to.

What makes you think BBSW would make "some patchwork stab at
it"? When have you *ever* seen anything like that from them. For
decades they have been producing quality software. They have
said an iCloud solution is coming; give them a chance to fulfil that.

Charlie

PS. I doubt anyone will lose sleep over your choice not to use Yojimbo.

--
Ꮚ Charlie Garrison ♊ <garr...@zeta.org.au>

O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org
〠 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt

[Rhet Turnbull]

> That's a bit agro, Yojimbo *does* work the way it's supposed to, just not

In 80 days this will no longer be true -- what many people consider
one of Yojimbo's essential features will stop working. The OP's
question was a fair one. It will take some time to find and
transition to an alternative solution if one of Yojimbo's key features
stops working in 80 days and many of us would like to know if we
should start that transition now. Fair question.

> What makes you think BBSW would make "some patchwork stab at it"? When have
> you *ever* seen anything like that from them. For decades they have been

Uhm, the iPad app...

> PS. I doubt anyone will lose sleep over your choice not to use Yojimbo.

Seriously dude, why do most people on this list feel the need to
attack any poster who isn't crazy in love with Barebones? This isn't
the Yojimbo-fan-boyz list, it's Yojimbo-talk and talking about
Yojimbo's shortcomings (yes, there are some) should be OK. Let's all
be polite and civil to each other.

Cheers,
Rhet

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[Phillip Walker]

I can understand the original poster's frustration. I've been using Bare Bones software for a long time, both Yojimbo and BBEdit. I was thrilled when Yojimbo for the iPad came out since that was exactly what I needed, but an information manager that you can't insert information into isn't exactly the most useful software in the world. Yes, I know you can put it in on your mac and then sync, but that't not terribly useful when someone tells me about this great new restaurant or I see a book in the book store that I want to put on my to buy list.

That's why I now use evernote. I don't like the fact that it uses remote servers, but at least I can enter information into it. I guess I might be a bit more understanding if I understood why Barebones refuses to allow me to enter info on the iPad. But they refuse to talk about it. Let's face it, Yojimbo for the iPad is priced as a premium iPad app, but it doesn't have the functionality of a premium iPad app. After I first bought it, I thought, well, this is just an interim solution, they'll release a fully function version real soon, but that was a long time ago and I've just about given up hope that Bare Bones has any plans to enhance Yojimbo for the iPad. It's too bad. I think that Yojimbo for the iPad could have been a real winner.

[Charlie Garrison]

Good morning,

On 11/04/12 at 9:23 PM -0600, Rhet Turnbull
<rtur...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> That's a bit agro, Yojimbo *does* work the way it's supposed to, just not
>
>In 80 days this will no longer be true -- what many people consider
>one of Yojimbo's essential features will stop working. The OP's
>question was a fair one. It will take some time to find and
>transition to an alternative solution if one of Yojimbo's key features
>stops working in 80 days and many of us would like to know if we
>should start that transition now. Fair question.

Fair question, which has already been answered. The OP didn't
acknowledge the question had been answered, other than by
quoting one answer and then ignoring it.

>> What makes you think BBSW would make "some patchwork stab at it"? When have
>> you *ever* seen anything like that from them. For decades they have been
>
>Uhm, the iPad app...

Never seen it, so can't really comment. I thought the only real
problem with it was lack of reverse sync, which was clearly
stated in product description. People may not have been happy
with that, but I wouldn't call it a "patchwork stab".

>> PS. I doubt anyone will lose sleep over your choice not to use Yojimbo.
>
>Seriously dude, why do most people on this list feel the need to
>attack any poster who isn't crazy in love with Barebones? This isn't
>the Yojimbo-fan-boyz list, it's Yojimbo-talk and talking about
>Yojimbo's shortcomings (yes, there are some) should be OK. Let's all
>be polite and civil to each other.

To me; it felt the OP was not being civil and was threatening.
For very many years I've heard users threaten to "never use XYZ
product again", or some variation. It achieves nothing other
than to attempt a call to action via threats. Few people respond
well to such threats; I've heard/read BBSW staff politely
respond to such threats by even suggesting other products which
may suit user better, but never has it made them jump and react.

Had the OP stated a specific problem (or shortcoming) and
requested assistance or solutions, we'd be having a *very*
different conversation right now. Isn't talking about solutions
heaps more productive than moaning and whinging? If preferring
production conversation makes me a fan-boy, then send me a
t-shirt to wear proudly.

Granted, I started my reply saying the OP sounded a bit agro. I
accept that's my personal opinion which happens when I see
threatening behaviour. I should have refrained since all I did
was add to the problem. This list is to discuss Yojimbo and how
best to use it; not to whinge/threaten/react.

Signing off (this is straying too far OT),
Charlie

PS. As summary for those who may have missed it:

On 5/03/12 at 9:43 AM -0500, Patrick Woolsey
<pwoo...@barebones.com> wrote:
>We are still working on this, and will have a future version of Yojimbo
>with iCloud support prior to the MobileMe sunset date (of Jun 30, 2012).

On 19/03/12 at 8:43 AM -0400, Patrick Woolsey

<pwoo...@barebones.com> wrote:
>As of today I can only say with surety what I have before, i.e. that we
>will have a version of Yojimbo with iCloud support ready prior to the
>MobileMe sunset date (of Jun 30, 2012).

If pressed, I bet someone could get Patrick to repeat himself
(again). Personally, I think his time is better spent with the codebase.

[Shaun James]

Hi All,

I don't use MobileMe or iCloud (as I am on Snow Leopard). I sync Yojimbo to my iPad using wifi. Does this sunset thing affect users like me or only MobileMe users?

Shaun

[Tomball]

Thanks for following up via private email, Patrick. 

I moved to iCloud after using the Dropbox/symlink workaround. I use Yojimbo on my desktop iMac and my MacBook Air. Yojimbo tells me it's open on the other machine when I've forgotten to quit. I can then walk to the other room or if I'm on the road with the MBAir, use Back to my Mac and screen sharing to close it on the iMac. It works for me.

On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:14:02 PM UTC-5, Patrick Woolsey wrote:

[Terje Bless]

[ Replying to ages old thread here, sorry. ]

Phillip Walker <walkerp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>[…] I was thrilled when Yojimbo for the iPad came out since that was exactly

>what I needed, but an information manager that you can't insert information

>into isn't exactly the most useful software in the world. […] I guess I

>might be a bit more understanding if I understood why Barebones refuses to

>allow me to enter info on the iPad. But they refuse to talk about it. […]

>After I first bought it, I thought, well, this is just an interim solution,
>they'll release a fully function version real soon, but that was a long time
>ago and I've just about given up hope that Bare Bones has any plans to
>enhance Yojimbo for the iPad.

A couple of points you might do well to consider:

One, Bare Bones Software essentially never pre-announce
products, versions, or talk about future functionality. When
they here “refuse to talk about it” that should come as
absolutely no surprise to you (or anyone); the product does what
it says on the tin, nothing more nothing less, and you should
base your decision to purchase it or not based on how well that
functionality fits your needs, and not on what you speculate
they might conceivably do in the future.

Two, as this particular thread makes clear, a big hurdle for
syncing in Yojimbo is Apple's migration away from MobileMe to
iCloud; and iCloud has always been key for syncing apps on iOS
devices (prior to its introduction, it was key through its
absence). Bare Bones have taken the unusual step of actually
pre-announcing that they are working on iCloud support
(presumably only because Apple's move has pulled the rug out
from under their users, and not because they've gotten chatty in
their old age), and the mere fact that this hasn't shipped yet
should suggest that it's a hard nut to crack and they are
pouring all their resources into this. I'm not surprised this is
a hard problem; unlike MobileMe (which pretended otherwise),
iCloud is very obviously not optimal for syncing data of the
type stored in Yojimbo (iCloud is optimized for very low-volume
key—value data, like preference settings rather than
documents; I wouldn't want to be the poor sod having to bridge
Yojimbo's needs with what the iCloud APIs actually provide).

However, given Apple's push to make iCloud ubiquitous across all
their devices, once Bare Bones have implemented iCloud support
in Yojimbo for Mac to their satisfaction (which may not be in
the first release with iCloud support; always expect a few
iterations of further refinement after a major new technology is
implemented), doesn't it seem likely that they will extend this
support to Yojimbo for the iPad too? And once they're on a
robust footing for two-way sync, using standard iCloud APIs
rather than their own homebrew solution for WiFi sync, adding
support for more meaningful data entry would seem an obvious
next step. Of course, don't underestimate the complexity and
effort involved in designing and implementing a quality user
interface / interaction model for something like this on an iOS
device; or the limitations inherent in the platform (no global
command shortcuts, extremely limited cross-app access to data
and documents, etc.); even with sync in place (the plumbing),
implementing the actual feature is bound to take time.

In short, I think what you're seeing right now is the result of
company with, of necessity, limited resources working their
darndest to do right by their customers after Apple effectively
pulled the technological rug out from under them. Their first
priority has to be to move from MobileMe to iCloud before the
former's sunset date, which would otherwise leave their
customers stranded. Once that is done they have the option to
turn their resources towards increasing the value proposition of
things like Yojimbo for iOS (making it more valuable to
customers means more sales).

--
_Yvonne______________________|_Rick____________________________________
“Where were you last night?” — “That's so long ago, I
don't remember.”
“Will I see you tonight?” — “I never make plans that
far ahead.”

[Christian de Larrinaga]

It is a waste of effort for Barebones to run after iCloud. It will be a moving target. It is insecure store for data (from a non US user perspective) and if I am going to pay for space then I am going to host it on my own devices that I control.

The mobile me sync has been convenient but I was about to bring it to end of life in anycase and iCloud is not a replacement.

Incidentally the one thing iCloud could do usefully is to sync mac system preferences, keychains, dashboards, and so forth but it is the one thing that is useful in mobileme that iCloud will not support.

That puts iCloud completely out of the running.

So don't bother with the Apple garden.

[Phillip Walker]

Oh, it's no surprise that they refuse to talk about it. However, they should understand that actions, or lack thereof, have consequences. For a small company, the number one advertisement is word of mouth from existing customers. Failure to engage with existing customers can translate to disgruntled customers. Disgruntled customers tend not to recommend a product. Right now, when someone asks me what information manager to get for the iPad, I have to tell them Evernote since Yojimbo is a read only product. If I don't tell barebones that I'm disgruntled, then they won't know.

I could care less about syncing via iCloud or MobleMe. That feature is way down my wish list since the current method of syncing (connect to desktop via local network) works just fine. Syncing might be a bit more important if there was actually something to sync, rather than simply download the existing database from the desktop. Perhaps I'm the only Yojimbo user who actually wants to enter data on the iPad and everyone else is happy with read-only and is absolutely dying for iCloud sync. I kind of doubt it though.

pww

[Steven J Klein]

On May 9, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Phillip Walker wrote:
> Oh, it's no surprise that they refuse to talk about it.

But they haven’t refused to talk about it. It’s the very first item in the Youjimbo FAQ. And it says quite clearly, "We will add support for iCloud in a future version of Yojimbo prior to the MobileMe sunset date (of Jun 30, 2012).”

The folks at BB have no control over the iCloud service or API. It might turn out that the iCloud APIs lack critical features, or are buggy. Rich Siegel and the other programmers at Bare Bones are smart people, and they’ll no doubt find ways to code around those missing features and bugs; But until they’ve got a working product, I think it’s wise of them to keep their mouths shut regarding a release date.

> I could care less about syncing via iCloud or MobleMe. That feature is way down my wish list…

Pet peeve of mine: You should have written, “I couldn’t care less.” (Forgive me; I’m a language pedant.)

Regards,
--
Steven Klein Computer Service
Apple & A+ Certified
Your Mac, PC & Network Expert
Phone: (248) YOUR-MAC
or (248) 968-7622

[Shaun James]

I'm with you pww. I'm not interested in iCloud at all. I want to be able to edit notes on the iPad.

Shaun

[Phillip Walker]

To clarify, when I say they refuse to talk about it, I was referring to the ability to make notes on the iPad version of Yojimbo.

Actually, I shouldn't have written "I couldn't care less". "I could care less" is a legitimate American usage that has been around since the 60's. "I couldn't care less" seems to date just a bit before that, dating back to 1946 in England. While there is a bit of debate among the language pedants about the two phrases, either usage is acceptable according to the Oxford Dictionary. Both usages have been in use long enough to adequately convey what is meant, which is what really matters.

While I do find the history and usage of words and phrases of interest, thus the purchase of the Oxford Dictionary, this probably isn't the place for it.

[Christian de Larrinaga]

ditto
Christian

[Shaun James]

Phillip, just FYI, being in Australia and not America, the phrase "I could care less" did not make sense to me either. I did have to stop and think: I wonder if he meant "couldn't"? There are plenty of differences in spelling and phrases between English and American English, perhaps there should be an ISO standard :)

Shaun

[verdonv]

I just want to be able to keep one data set in sync across 3 devices,
so I'm holding out much hope for iCloud support.

[Phillip Walker]

Good point. What was it Churchill said - "American and Great Britain at two nations separated by a common tongue". or some such thing. That's probably true for all english dialects.

[realpkkc]

Any update on this? It is just about a month before the sunset date, is this a bit pushing?

Kind Regards,

p.

[Patrick Woolsey]

At 15:40 -0700 06/01/2012, realpkkc wrote:

>Any update on this? It is just about a month before the sunset date, is
>this a bit pushing?
>

We appreciate your patience, and do still expect to have a version of
Yojimbo with iCloud support prior to the MobileMe sunset date (of Jun 30).

[luibob]

I tried to wait as long as I could, switched to iCloud. Now my most useful application is a little less useful.. Hopefully Yojimbo will catch up sooner than later. Thanks for making such a great application. I'll be waiting to jump back on board when the time comes.

-Luis

[Bryan Bagwell]

Looking forward to seeing what Barebones has for us - there sure has been plenty of time to test and implement.  T Minus 11 days...

On Friday, June 1, 2012 7:21:02 PM UTC-4, Patrick Woolsey wrote:

[Rob Jackson]

Still on Target?  I have been holding out for an update, but it hasn't been easy :)

Appreciate whatever you can do.

- Rob

[a!]

I too have been patiently waiting for iCloud integration, having used Yojimbo since v1. We're in the final stretch here with MobileMe disappearing in just 5 days. Ideally, we'd have a few days of buffer time at least to migrate and make sure everything works(?).

Sincerely,

a!

[Laura]

I'm eager to move back away from Evernote, which has been a poor substitute, especially for notes that need to be encrypted. We're down to the last week. Any news?

(This has been a big barrier for me, as I need to sync notes not just from Mac to iOS (for which wifi sync is something of a kludge, imho) but from Mac to Mac. Things like Notational Velocity work for notes but not media. Evernote works for media, but really sucks usability-wise for encryption.)

I'm a longtime Yojimbo and BBEdit fan and user. Really looking forward to this critical update!

[Keith Calder]

"We do intend to support iCloud in a future version of Yojimbo (well before
the MobileMe sunset date)."

Well, the MobileMe sunset date is in four days. How are we looking for an update to support iCloud? I love Yojimbo, and I hope I can continue to use it for storing and syncing all my important information, but if that's not going to happen then I'd love to know with enough time to migrate to a new system before the MobileMe sunset date.

 - keith

[Bryan Bagwell]

Saturday will be here soon!  Can't wait to have my Yojimbo library syncing across devices again.

[jodybohdy]

As much as I'd hoped that iCloud support would happen by now as Bare Bones had promised, it's not going to happen.  I'm not saying that Bare Bones didn't try hard, but not seeing any substantial news of progress in the last month, it came as no surprise to me that iCloud support wasn't ready by the MobileMe shutoff.  Hopefully, it will happen soon.  Well, here's the word from Bare Bones:

source: http://www.barebones.com/support/yojimbo/icloud.html

Update: June 30, 2012

We regret that we will not have iCloud support ready in time for the MobileMe shutoff. The technical issues of the last few days will take a bit longer to resolve, and test. These issues can be worked around; and we are working as hard as we can. Nonetheless, it will take time to implement and test the necessary changes; and to ensure that our support for iCloud meets the standard that our customers have come to expect from us.

The amount of time required is more than remains before Apple turns off MobileMe; and we think you need to know this now.

Please note that Yojimbo will continue to work except for syncing between multiple Macs. When the new release is ready, once you have installed it, your changes will resynchronize using iCloud.

We apologize for the inconvenience these delays are causing, and we know they make your work harder. Thanks again for your continued patience and understanding while we get this job done.

[Al Bergstein]

Well, given Apple’s lack of timely communication in many regards with their development community, and the general economy, it’s not too surprising and at least they are offering to make sure that when the syncing starts up again they will resync.