Small Annoying Things

[Eugen Sares]

Hi list,
Softimage has one of the slickest interfaces known to man, but nothing's
perfect.
Let's be nit-picky for a moment... what glitches, small flaws or
inconsistencies annoy you most in Softimage?
Any SPDL hacks worth doing when SI is installed freshly?
This is about polishing, not cool new features (borders are blurry of
course).

Maybe the new developer team has nothing better to do (ha ha) and feels
motivated to do a little mop-up...

Here we go:

- Render Tree
When multiple objects are selected and all share the same Material, the
RT should not nag with the message "Update can't be done with two
objects selected" and display that Material.
(besides, it says "two", even when more are selected)
3ds max can even display multiple shader trees... would this make sense?

- Material Manager
...should remember it's layout, expecially the horizontal divider.
There's a bug with the text input field of the Shader balls names. It
sometimes does not update, and you have to type blindly. After pressing
enter it updates, however.

- Timeslider
When the Range Slider is moved, the timeslider should update with it
interactively (does so in Maya).

- Project Manager
Would be nice if a double-click would open a scene in the list on the
right hand side.

- Operator Stack
A double click on a Construction Mode Marker in the Explorer should
activate that mode.
Also, highlighting the markers in some way (bold or different color or
whatever) would clarify which mode is active in the Stack, besides
looking at the dropdown in the menu bar.

- Operator Context Menu
... should contain all Commands related to Operators. Now they are
strewn across the interface - some are to find in menu Edit > Operator,
others in MCP > Edit > Operator.
"Collapse Operators" is a good example. Would you go looking for that in
the MCP menu?
"Freeze" in the menu freezes everything below an operator, not the whole
stack. Thus it could be named "Freeze down" or "Freeze all below" or
whatever.

- Texture Projection Operator Stack
The "Texture_Projection_Def" property has buttons "Reset" and "Freeze" -
somewhat hidden. Could reside in the Op Stack context menu as well.

- Texture Support
... should show parameters GeoX, GeoY, GeoZ by default. This can be
fixed with a litte hack of texture.spdl.
I see no reason why it should not be possible to set the size of a TS
numerically. I need this often.

- "Texture_Projection_Def" property
Checkboxes U,V,W are off by default. Should be on, because when texture
coords are outside the 0,0 - 1,0 range, textures render black, and the
head-scratching begins.
3D-Coat AppLink for example shifts UVs around that way.

- UI graphics
The browse icon (...) besides a path input field tends to draw artifacts
when the PPG is resized. Could be graphics driver related (GeForce 460
here).
Does one need to go for an expensive Quadro card for this?

- Render Region Options > "Use current Pass options" should be on by
default.
Often enough I have drawn an Render Region, tweaked the render
parameters in the Render Manager and wondered why nothing happens...

More to come...

Thanks for reading!
Best regards,
Eugen

[James De Colling]

i'll add a few - 

texture editor - 

       why is it proportional settings are so small for this?

       repeat key doesnt work

       clip-grid properties are in preferences...at least make a dropdown/slider in the toolbar (cant change colors either)

       default clip display res is 256x256...

       would be nice to get 25/50/100% clip zoom display size buttons

       unfold op doesnt automatically update the texture editor when applying it for the first time, need to deselect/reselect the      mesh to show up in the TE

       pack tool for pre-uv'd islands would be nice

       overlapping uv's could use mutliple shades of transparency.

       tear-off menu's in the TE would be lovely.

       typing in a u/v translate for multiple islands moves them all at once...but try to undo it, and it undoes one at a time???

       ability to rename projections inside the TE would be handy

       ctrl-alt to move the temporary pivot of an island instead of needing a button

general -

       apply a few ops to an object, why isnt the last automatically selected when re-selecting the object?

       would be reeeealy nice if bump/normal would display in the viewport without a cg shader.

thats all for now :)

James,

[Xavier Lapointe]

Meh ..

• Expose a Color object in scripting so we don't have to create a light, and query the OGLLight ... this is really annoying.
• Fix the Copy/Paste in Linux(!?!)
• Euler filter (that works) in the Animation Editor

I'm sure there are many little things here and there but .. this is what I came across recently. 

[Len Krenzler]

A very simple thing I find annoying. In the file menu, there's a import
model, and export model but no replace model.

Also when UI windows like the material editor and explorer are opened
and set where I want them I wish SI would remember their preferred
location for next time.

--
_________________________________________________

Len Krenzler - Creative Control Media Productions

Phone: 780.463.3126

www.creativecontrol.ca - l...@creativecontrol.ca

[Alan Fregtman]

In Linux modal XSI windows aren't quite modal... You can accidentally click behind them and lose focus, wondering why XSI is unresponsive, only to realise in the taskbar there's a window you have to OK to.

And like Xavier said, Copy/paste in Linux.... ARGHH! Rarely works and when it does it's like two seconds after I trigger a paste. Behavior varies between softwares, too. "gedit" pastes very quickly but pretty much every other program (like Firefox or SublimeText2) doesn't paste instantly or reliably when having copied from SI.

[Toonafish]

Oeh, let me add a few as well:

- Raycast / no raycast toggle only works for default rectangle selection tool. Would be swell if all other selection tools would support this too, at the moment they are all only ray-cast, which renders them almost useless in most cases.

- Hidden components should not be affected by the tweak tool with proportional falloff, the paint selection tool, or growing a selection. At least there should be a toggle for this.

- a "slip UV's" setting to automatically adjust the UV's when adjusting the geometry would be swell. These days I sometimes make adjustments in Modo when I need to adjust geometry without screwing up my UV's.

- A great addition would be proper symmetry that supports adding and deleting geometry, and not only the tweak tool.

- A decent preview window that lets me store more then a single render, and maybe even shows useful information like rendertimes, used memory footprint etc.

- Would be great if there were way to copy geometry from one object to another one without using the merge tool. The merge tool often screws up a setup with constraints, lattices etc.

- Would be swell if the "new" bone primitive would finally be fixed to work with symmetry maps and envelopes.

that's all for now ;-)




-- Ronald

[Eugen Sares]

Selection, right...
- A "Surround Objects" mode for the selection would come in handy. This
is really missing.
FYI: in 3ds max there's a toggle "window/crossing" for all object or
sub-object selections, and you can even set it to "window" if you draw
the selection frame from left to right, and "crossing" from right to left.
One of the few nice little things I still miss from max.

Am 16.08.2012 17:44, schrieb Toonafish:
>
>
> Oeh, let me add a few as well:
>
> - Raycast / no raycast toggle only works for default rectangle
> selection tool. Would be swell if all other selection tools would
> support this too, at the moment they are all only ray-cast, which
> renders them almost useless in most cases.
>
> - Hidden components should not be affected by the tweak tool with
> proportional falloff, the paint selection tool, or growing a
> selection. At least there should be a toggle for this.
>
> - a "slip UV's" setting to automatically adjust the UV's when
> adjusting the geometry would be swell. These days I sometimes make
> adjustments in Modo when I need to adjust geometry without screwing up
> my UV's.
>
> - A great addition would be proper symmetry that supports adding and
> deleting geometry, and not only the tweak tool.
>
> - A decent preview window that lets me store more then a single
> render, and maybe even shows useful information like rendertimes, used
> memory footprint etc.
>

Second that. The Preview Window ain't no good. At all.
Glad I'm using VRay...

[Votch]

This same behavior with modal windows happens in win7 as well and can be very frustrating.

[Eugen Sares]

- File dialog:
Would be nice if renaming was possible.
A list of available harddrives is missing. Could be a dropdown menu, or a separate, always visible part of the folder tree (the shortcuts button is more like a workaround for this).

[Matt Lowery]

I find the fact that Softimage often makes me doubt my own sanity by saying that the scene I'm about to close has never been saved, even though I saved it just two clicks earlier.

Also having just launched Softimage, and gone to the file menu to open a scene, I find it very annoying to have to confirm that I don't want to save the completely empty scene the I'm presented with at start up. This is especially annoying when you are trying to open a scene file that you know will take a good few minutes to open. So you head off to make a nice cuppa only to return and find that the software hasn't even started opening the scene file yet as you still haven't confirmed that you don't want to save an empty scene. Grrrr!

[Matt Lowery]

One more thing,

the inconsistent file browsers. The windows 7 file browser often seems to be standard browser for functions inside softimage. ( browsing to the out put path of a cache for example.) It would be better if all the file browsers were the standard xsi browser.

[Eugen Sares]

Am 17.08.2012 12:48, schrieb Matt Lowery:

I find the fact that Softimage often makes me doubt my own sanity by saying that the scene I'm about to close has never been saved, even though I saved it just two clicks earlier.

Also having just launched Softimage, and gone to the file menu to open a scene, I find it very annoying to have to confirm that I don't want to save the completely empty scene the I'm presented with at start up. This is especially annoying when you are trying to open a scene file that you know will take a good few minutes to open. So you head off to make a nice cuppa only to return and find that the software hasn't even started opening the scene file yet as you still haven't confirmed that you don't want to save an empty scene. Grrrr!

Good one! Nags me, too, all the time.
There's some internal flag indicating if a scene needs saving. This seems to be broken for the longest time now.

[Sandy Sutherland]

Try start writing out a characters mdd files within softimage and then start to type an email to someone - especially if the character has lots of small meshes that start writing out.  EACH TIME a mesh starts writing the progress bar pops up and takes over from anything else you are doing on the machine - becomes a tug of war to grab focus back to what you are trying to do!

LOL.

S.

_____________________________
Sandy Sutherland
Technical Supervisor
sandy.su...@triggerfish.co.za
_____________________________

---

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Eugen Sares [soft...@keyvis.at]
Sent: 17 August 2012 15:03
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Small Annoying Things

[Toonafish]

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Matt Lowery <ma...@glassworks.co.uk> wrote:

One more thing,

the inconsistent file browsers. The windows 7 file browser often seems to be standard browser for functions inside softimage. ( browsing to the out put path of a cache for example.) It would be better if all the file browsers were the standard xsi browser.

+1 to that one !

 - Ronald

[Jeff McFall]

If the render tree window is open and one assigns a new material to the selected object the window does not automatically refresh to show the new material

Not sure if this is intent or not but I often end up changing the wrong material because I expected my new material to be there

everything else is perfect

jeff

[James De Colling]

autosave resets the render in progress in the render region, not a big deal, but its annoying when it happens 

james,

[Eugen Sares]

Am 17.08.2012 15:42, schrieb Jeff McFall:
> If the render tree window is open and one assigns a new material to the selected object the window does not automatically refresh to show the new material
>
> Not sure if this is intent or not but I often end up changing the wrong material because I expected my new material to be there

+1
Even asked VRay support two days ago if this is related to the
connection plugin, but no, it's a SI bug.

[Paul Griswold]

Is the new dev team making a list out of this?  This list is gold.  I'd absolutely love to see this kind of stuff addressed in 2014.

-Paul

[Andy Moorer]

We have a pretty nice stereo camera but can't capture right and left eyes for stereo captures, necessitating creating duplicate constrained cameras for L and R eyes solely for capture/playblasts.

Sent from my iPad

[Matt Lind]

Here’s my short list, some dating back to v1.x:

 

 

 

1) Inspecting a mixer source or mixer clip via the RMB context menu displays a collapsed PPG that must be manually resized via dragging the mouse to see it’s contents.

 

2) Transfer / Merge Attributes editor found in the Poly.Mesh merge tool, GATOR, and a host of other tools only shows top two rows in the upper pane of the dialog and is NOT resizeable.

 

3) Transfer / Merge Attributes editor defaults to pairing up cluster properties (UVs, vertex color, user normals) by chronological order of creation instead of by name.

 

4) Updating a mixer source does not update mixer clips pointing to it from the mixer timeline.

 

5) No easily accessible UI for looking at image sources/clips on a mixer timeline.  Must navigate to the image clip folder in the scene explorer and know to select the image clip(s) to see anything at all.  Images should be an available option from the mixer.

 

6) No SDK access to Spreadsheet view.

 

7) No  option for scaling objects on axes other than local (such as global, object, or COG)

 

8) Cannot adjust explorer view filter to only show custom properties or other property type data without showing the rest of the object’s structure.

 

9) Deleting selected object from the scene when in an explorer set to “selection” scope causes scene explorer to go blank even when it’s locked (auto refresh deactivated).  Really?  Can’t it just maintain the current view? 

 

10) Texture Editor relax tool doesn’t relax.

 

11) No place to hide custom userdata that isn’t in plain view of the user.  Would be very useful for custom tools.

 

12) No paint UI or ability in SDK to create a useful 3D paint system.

 

13) Performance very bad with many objects in scene regardless of object complexity.

 

14) No ability to auto update self installing custom properties in a scene after code changes.

 

15) No falloff icon/manipulator for point lights

 

16) No ability to send events/callbacks to netview for custom tools to respond (example: on selection change, would like a netview based tool to respond)

 

17) No ability to preserve work on NURBS Surface when converting to polygon mesh….other than trivial geometry.

 

18) Realtime shader system overhauls that shows vertical improvement instead of lateral.

 

19) Lack of UI customization throughout.  Makes custom tool development more difficult than it should be.

 

20)  Ability to substitute operators/operator inputs in the construction history outside of text and curves.

 

21) Ability to read/write the construction history from the SDK other than a trivial XML dump.  What’s needed is low level access to operator inputs/outputs so the operators can be recreated exactly using custom importers/exporters.   Example:  the ‘movecomponent’ operator does not expose any parameters.  Therefore a custom tool which needs to build an object from a file description cannot recreate the movecomponent operator on the generated object’s stack.

 

22) ASCII file format for all presets, scene files, models, and other externally referenced data specific to the application.

 

23) A finished NURBS modeling toolset.

 

24) Ability to read / write NURBS data in parameterizations other than Non-Uniform.

 

25) Ability to get access to a reference model’s Delta via the scripting object model.

 

26) Ability to write to a PointCloud from scripting.  Example: apply color values to the points in the point cloud.

 

27) Ability to duplicate an object contained in a referenced model.  That is, the resulting duplicate should be local to the scene and have no affiliation with the referenced model from which it was derived.

 

28) Ability to define presets / default values for commonly used tools.

 

29) An Image clip viewer available directly from the viewport menus which allows panning, zooming, resizing, channel component viewing, etc… that was written in the last 15 years.

 

30) Tools for selecting subcomponents from samples (eg: uv --> polygons).  Needed outside the texture editor.

 

31) Customizable context menus for tools allowing removal and rearranging of tools, and allows arbitrary ordering/placement of custom tools.

 

32) Tear away controls from any toolbar that doesn’t require an entire package of buttons/controls to be torn away with it.  Example: I just want to tear the snapshot button off the FCurve editor toolbar.  I don’t want the swap buffer, HLE, and other tools to come with it.

 

33) A toolbar/layout/shelf editor that was built in the last 15 years and works on drag n’ drop and tear away editing principles.  Heck, even the old SI3D dialog editor was more intuitive than the XSI version.

 

34) Ability to put expressions, constraints, and other data types into mixer sources via the SDK, AND the ability to do so without requiring the parameters contained in a mixer source to exist in the current scene.

 

35) Why do primitive NURBS circles and squares default to having so many control points?

 

36) Using any tool which creates a sample clusterproperty (UV, vertex color, user normals, …) results in the newly created property being inserted into the most recently created sample cluster.  If you work in a system which requires clusters to be named (oh, I don’t know, like a games development workflow) you cannot control how data is generated resulting in a lot of misplaced data breaking stuff.

 

37) Value locks that actually work would be appreciated when used in referenced models.

 

38) When transforming subcomponents individually in local mode, there should be a ‘center’ icon drawn for each subcomponent so the user can see where each subcomponent will move.

 

39) subcomponents should transform relative to the selection’s center when working in symmetry mode.  Example: a character in a T-pose.  If a ring of polygons around the wrist are selected, rotating the polygons when COG and Local are active should result in the polygons rotating around the wrist, not the global origin.

 

40) Shadow icon colors should show up in the schematic, scene explorer and other views.

 

41) There should be an easy way to view the R, G, B, and A channels in the viewports.  Important when working with vertex colors and other metadata which isn’t necessarily used in the traditional context of beauty pass color.  Example: normal maps where the unused blue channel is used for another purpose.  Sometimes we need to see that blue channel on it’s own.

 

42) Ability to work on multiple texture projections simultaneously in the Texture editor without having to lock any.

 

43) No tools available to convert instances to objects and vice-versa.  Same for clones.  No tools exist for finding/selecting the masters of an instance or clone.  I’ve written my own, but it’s annoying I have to do so.

 

44) ICE Modeling is restricted to the modeling marker within the construction history.

 

45) XRay mode is per object.  Doesn’t take occluded objects into account for doing useful things like making translucent image planes for roughing out the modeling or texturing of new assets.

 

46) sliders in the KP / L are lmitied to on/off states and cannot set to other values. Example:  a parameter defined as siFloat with range [0…1].  In a PPG this shows up as a slider which can be set to any value in the range, but when this same parameter is edited in the KP / L, the user is restricted to 0 or 1 as accepted values when dragging the slider.   Must manually type values to get anything inbetween.

 

47) Cannot view an animation layer without the base layer.  There are times users want to only see the upper layers in isolation so they can see only what has been changed beyond the base layer.

 

48) Snap to texel is missing from 3D snap toolset.

 

49) Proportional modeling settings apply globally, but how the values are interpreted by tools are different depending on the view which the feature is used.  Example: in the 3d viewports the proportional modeling settings are defined in SI units, but in the texture editor they’re defined as UV values.  The problem is falloff as used in the 3D viewports is usually on a fairly large scale (several units) as objects are usually modeled fairly large.  But UV editing is usually in range [0….1], so any proportional modeling adjustment defined for the 3D viewports will have no effect in the texture editor because the falloff radius will be larger than the entire UV space which texture editing takes place.  Reducing the falloff to satisfy the texture editor results in the falloff being too small for use in the 3D viewports.  ARGH!

 

50) Anytime those nested layers want to work is fine by us.  Especially with referenced models.

 

 

 

 

Matt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Paul Griswold
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 9:09 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Small Annoying Things

 

Is the new dev team making a list out of this?  This list is gold.  I'd absolutely love to see this kind of stuff addressed in 2014.

[Ciaran Moloney]

 I'd rather it didn't do that to be honest.

[Eugen Sares]

As always, when people have different needs -> checkbox in the RT preferences.

[Steven Caron]

whats the behavior for two RT views open? 

lets say i have one open, locked, for reference. does that refresh?

*written with my thumbs

[Ciaran Moloney]

I think you could easily script this behaviour. Since RT refreshing is based on selection only, you could have the new material automatically selected after creation using an EndCommand event. If  the RT is not locked it will then update.

Also, a bit harsh to describe it as a bug (we have enough real ones already)

On Aug 18, 2012, at 12:03 AM, Eugen Sares <soft...@keyvis.at> wrote:

As always, when people have different needs -> checkbox in the RT preferences.

Am 18.08.2012 08:17, schrieb Ciaran Moloney:

 I'd rather it didn't do that to be honest.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Eugen Sares <soft...@keyvis.at> wrote:

Am 17.08.2012 15:42, schrieb Jeff McFall:

If the render tree window is open and one assigns a new material to the selected object the window does not automatically refresh to show the new material

Not sure if this is intent or not but I often end up changing the wrong material because I expected my new material to be there

+1
Even asked VRay support two days ago if this is related to the connection plugin, but no, it's a SI bug.

--
- Ciaran

[Eugen Sares]

Impressive!

Generally, for my part, I would love to see SI first and foremost evolve in this directions:
- extensibility
- customizability
- consolidation (general bugfixing, SDK fixes/cleanups, UI fixes/cleanups)

[Adam Sale]

my main issue, other than the great list of suggestion here, is to have a more stable throughput into Maya. For every time I use the Send to maya feature, I have to use FBX instead, as the send to does not pass the data correctly. 

I can't even count the number of times I have used Send to, only to have an empty scene show up in Maya. 

[Eugen Sares]

One more...

- Preference to set the number of decimal places displayed in a PPG.
I know SI remembers the correct floating point number entered, but it
would be cool if it could also display it correctly.
Stumbled across this trying to set VRay shadow bias, which needs to be
rather small here.

Or did I miss something?

[phil harbath]

I find that when there is a point cloud with a heavy instance shape node
attached, viewport interactivity takes a major hit even with the point cloud
and shapes hidden.
It is so bad I can't interactively create curves, however (again the point
clouds and shapes models are hidden) if i detach the instance nodes
everything is fine.

[Simon Anderson]

Shape Editor and weight editor,

weight editor they have updated, but i find if the value of a weight goes to 0 you cant update it after, also theres no smoothing(button smoothing)
The shape manager.... shivers down my back......

On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 6:25 AM, phil harbath <phil.h...@jamination.com> wrote:

I find that when there is a point cloud with a heavy instance shape node attached, viewport interactivity takes a major hit even with the point cloud and shapes hidden.
It is so bad I can't interactively create curves,  however (again the point clouds and shapes models are hidden) if i detach the instance nodes everything is fine.

--
-------------------
Simon Ben Anderson
blog: http://vinyldevelopment.wordpress.com/

[Alan Fregtman]

Another thing...

How about a goddamn "Save Preferences" button? I know there's a command for it.

So many times I've set preferences on a fresh install, worked a few hours, crashed, and my preferences had not been saved! :/

[Daniel Jahnel]

I just export my preferences and re-import for a new installation or user profile...right click on the preferences and export, I know it doesnt really export all preferences like e.g. transform preferences but its something

[Juan Brockhaus]

Some time ago (around XSI 7.5 or so) I logged all the settings I did and saved them out as a script.

 

Now when I have a fresh install, I just run that script.

(the script obviously got some lines added over time and Soft versions…)

 

Juan

 

 

 

- - -

Juan Brockhaus | Head of CG Studio

Prime Focus London Commercials

T: +44 (0)20 7565 1000 | M: +44 (0)7944 720 557
A: 37 Dean Street, London, W1D 4PT, UK

www.primefocusgroup.com

 

---

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Jahnel
Sent: 20 August 2012 09:29
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Small Annoying Things

 

I just export my preferences and re-import for a new installation or user profile...right click on the preferences and export, I know it doesnt really export all preferences like e.g. transform preferences but its something

[Chris Marshall]

Is Migrate Preferences a different thing?

[Alan Fregtman]

Yes. I was referring to how preferences are only saved on a successful clean quit of SI, not on closing the Preferences window.

Therefore, if you crash, your changes aren't saved. (I do believe there is a SavePreferences() command or something like that though.)

[Stephen Blair]

http://xsisupport.com/2011/11/22/adding-a-button-to-save-preference-changes/

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alan Fregtman
Sent: August-20-12 10:51 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Small Annoying Things

Yes. I was referring to how preferences are only saved on a successful clean quit of SI, not on closing the Preferences window.

Therefore, if you crash, your changes aren't saved. (I do believe there is a SavePreferences() command or something like that though.)

On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Chris Marshall <chrisma...@gmail.com<mailto:chrisma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Is Migrate Preferences a different thing?

[Len Krenzler]

One more that's extremely annoying. No color management in the viewport
modes except for HQVP. If we have it on HQ why not the others? Can't
be that hard.

[Matt Lind]

I forgot one very important annoying thing:

 

51) ICE Trees should show up in a PPG just like other operators when using ALT + Enter to inspect object(s).

 

Since an ICE Tree can have arbitrary composition of nodes, I would clarify this as displaying the top level node of an ICE Tree if it’s an ICE Compound with custom UI.

 

The main purpose of being able to make an ICE compound is to encapsulate your work in an easy to manage package.  If that package has a UI for the user to interact with (sliders, checkboxes, …), it’s important for it to be just as easily accessible as the PPG to other operators when inspecting via ALT + Enter.  A custom ICE modeling tool should not require a user to dig 10 levels deep into an ICE tree or scene explorer to access a parameter to tweak.

[Stefan Kubicek]

In that case it would be cool if the Right-Click Explorer menu would allow for muting the Operator/Compound
if it has a "Mute" Parameter.

> I forgot one very important annoying thing:
>
> 51) ICE Trees should show up in a PPG just like other operators when using ALT + Enter to inspect object(s).
>
> Since an ICE Tree can have arbitrary composition of nodes, I would clarify this as displaying the top level node of an ICE Tree if it's an ICE Compound with custom UI.
>

> The main purpose of being able to make an ICE compound is to encapsulate your work in an easy to manage package. If that package has a UI for the user to interact with (sliders, checkboxes, ...), it's important for it to be just as easily accessible as the PPG to other operators when inspecting via ALT + Enter. A custom ICE modeling tool should not require a user to dig 10 levels deep into an ICE tree or scene explorer to access a parameter to tweak.

> 17) No ability to preserve work on NURBS Surface when converting to polygon mesh....other than trivial geometry.

>
> 18) Realtime shader system overhauls that shows vertical improvement instead of lateral.
>
> 19) Lack of UI customization throughout. Makes custom tool development more difficult than it should be.
>
> 20) Ability to substitute operators/operator inputs in the construction history outside of text and curves.
>
> 21) Ability to read/write the construction history from the SDK other than a trivial XML dump. What's needed is low level access to operator inputs/outputs so the operators can be recreated exactly using custom importers/exporters. Example: the 'movecomponent' operator does not expose any parameters. Therefore a custom tool which needs to build an object from a file description cannot recreate the movecomponent operator on the generated object's stack.
>
> 22) ASCII file format for all presets, scene files, models, and other externally referenced data specific to the application.
>
> 23) A finished NURBS modeling toolset.
>
> 24) Ability to read / write NURBS data in parameterizations other than Non-Uniform.
>
> 25) Ability to get access to a reference model's Delta via the scripting object model.
>
> 26) Ability to write to a PointCloud from scripting. Example: apply color values to the points in the point cloud.
>
> 27) Ability to duplicate an object contained in a referenced model. That is, the resulting duplicate should be local to the scene and have no affiliation with the referenced model from which it was derived.
>
> 28) Ability to define presets / default values for commonly used tools.
>

> 29) An Image clip viewer available directly from the viewport menus which allows panning, zooming, resizing, channel component viewing, etc... that was written in the last 15 years.

>
> 30) Tools for selecting subcomponents from samples (eg: uv --> polygons). Needed outside the texture editor.
>
> 31) Customizable context menus for tools allowing removal and rearranging of tools, and allows arbitrary ordering/placement of custom tools.
>
> 32) Tear away controls from any toolbar that doesn't require an entire package of buttons/controls to be torn away with it. Example: I just want to tear the snapshot button off the FCurve editor toolbar. I don't want the swap buffer, HLE, and other tools to come with it.
>
> 33) A toolbar/layout/shelf editor that was built in the last 15 years and works on drag n' drop and tear away editing principles. Heck, even the old SI3D dialog editor was more intuitive than the XSI version.
>
> 34) Ability to put expressions, constraints, and other data types into mixer sources via the SDK, AND the ability to do so without requiring the parameters contained in a mixer source to exist in the current scene.
>
> 35) Why do primitive NURBS circles and squares default to having so many control points?
>

> 36) Using any tool which creates a sample clusterproperty (UV, vertex color, user normals, ...) results in the newly created property being inserted into the most recently created sample cluster. If you work in a system which requires clusters to be named (oh, I don't know, like a games development workflow) you cannot control how data is generated resulting in a lot of misplaced data breaking stuff.

>
> 37) Value locks that actually work would be appreciated when used in referenced models.
>
> 38) When transforming subcomponents individually in local mode, there should be a 'center' icon drawn for each subcomponent so the user can see where each subcomponent will move.
>
> 39) subcomponents should transform relative to the selection's center when working in symmetry mode. Example: a character in a T-pose. If a ring of polygons around the wrist are selected, rotating the polygons when COG and Local are active should result in the polygons rotating around the wrist, not the global origin.
>
> 40) Shadow icon colors should show up in the schematic, scene explorer and other views.
>
> 41) There should be an easy way to view the R, G, B, and A channels in the viewports. Important when working with vertex colors and other metadata which isn't necessarily used in the traditional context of beauty pass color. Example: normal maps where the unused blue channel is used for another purpose. Sometimes we need to see that blue channel on it's own.
>
> 42) Ability to work on multiple texture projections simultaneously in the Texture editor without having to lock any.
>
> 43) No tools available to convert instances to objects and vice-versa. Same for clones. No tools exist for finding/selecting the masters of an instance or clone. I've written my own, but it's annoying I have to do so.
>
> 44) ICE Modeling is restricted to the modeling marker within the construction history.
>
> 45) XRay mode is per object. Doesn't take occluded objects into account for doing useful things like making translucent image planes for roughing out the modeling or texturing of new assets.
>

> 46) sliders in the KP / L are lmitied to on/off states and cannot set to other values. Example: a parameter defined as siFloat with range [0...1]. In a PPG this shows up as a slider which can be set to any value in the range, but when this same parameter is edited in the KP / L, the user is restricted to 0 or 1 as accepted values when dragging the slider. Must manually type values to get anything inbetween.

>
> 47) Cannot view an animation layer without the base layer. There are times users want to only see the upper layers in isolation so they can see only what has been changed beyond the base layer.
>
> 48) Snap to texel is missing from 3D snap toolset.
>

> 49) Proportional modeling settings apply globally, but how the values are interpreted by tools are different depending on the view which the feature is used. Example: in the 3d viewports the proportional modeling settings are defined in SI units, but in the texture editor they're defined as UV values. The problem is falloff as used in the 3D viewports is usually on a fairly large scale (several units) as objects are usually modeled fairly large. But UV editing is usually in range [0....1], so any proportional modeling adjustment defined for the 3D viewports will have no effect in the texture editor because the falloff radius will be larger than the entire UV space which texture editing takes place. Reducing the falloff to satisfy the texture editor results in the falloff being too small for use in the 3D viewports. ARGH!

>
> 50) Anytime those nested layers want to work is fine by us. Especially with referenced models.
>
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Paul Griswold
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 9:09 AM
> To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
> Subject: Re: Small Annoying Things
>
> Is the new dev team making a list out of this? This list is gold. I'd absolutely love to see this kind of stuff addressed in 2014.
>
> -Paul
>

--
-------------------------------------------
Stefan Kubicek Co-founder
-------------------------------------------
keyvis digital imagery
Wehrgasse 9 - Grï¿œner Hof
1050 Vienna Austria
Phone: +43/699/12614231
--- www.keyvis.at ste...@keyvis.at ---
-- This email and its attachments are
--confidential and for the recipient only--

[Szabolcs Matefy]

+1 to all comments...seriously...and fix the slider issue with split edge with ratio

Wehrgasse 9 - Gr�ner Hof

[Chris Chia]

Hey Szabolcs,
Look out for the next release... ;)

Chris

> Wehrgasse 9 - Grüner Hof

[Chris Chia]

I meant for the slider issue ;)

Chris

[Szabolcs Matefy]

Super! When? :)

-----Original Message-----
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Chris Chia
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 1:32 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Small Annoying Things

I meant for the slider issue ;)

Chris

On 21 Aug, 2012, at 7:30 PM, "Chris Chia" <chris...@autodesk.com> wrote:

> Hey Szabolcs,
> Look out for the next release... ;)
>
> Chris
>
> On 21 Aug, 2012, at 5:58 PM, "Szabolcs Matefy" <szab...@crytek.com> wrote:
>
>> +1 to all comments...seriously...and fix the slider issue with split

>> +edge with ratio

>> Wehrgasse 9 - Gr�ner Hof

[Matt Lind]

What slider issue?

-----Original Message-----
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Chris Chia

Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 4:32 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Small Annoying Things

I meant for the slider issue ;)

Chris

On 21 Aug, 2012, at 7:30 PM, "Chris Chia" <chris...@autodesk.com> wrote:

> Hey Szabolcs,
> Look out for the next release... ;)
>
> Chris
>
> On 21 Aug, 2012, at 5:58 PM, "Szabolcs Matefy" <szab...@crytek.com> wrote:
>
>> +1 to all comments...seriously...and fix the slider issue with split

>> +edge with ratio

>>> softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-bounces@lis
>>> tp
>>> roc.autodesk.com>
>>> [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-bou

>> Wehrgasse 9 - Gr�ner Hof

[Nic Groot Bluemink]

Has someone mentioned a gradient shader with more than 8 color inputs yet? If we can pretend it's a small issue for the purposes of this topic, that.

Nic

>>         Wehrgasse 9 - Grüner Hof

>>      1050 Vienna  Austria
>>        Phone:    +43/699/12614231
>> --- www.keyvis.at  ste...@keyvis.at ---
>> --  This email and its attachments are --confidential and for the
>> recipient only--
>>
>>

--

Technical Pretty Picture Making Person

Kettle

[Matt Lind]

Yes, we’ve formally requested it long ago.

 

Back to the annoyances:

 

52) when creating a combo box menu in a PPG, if more than one item in the combo box have the same label, the items will be consolidated into a single item.

[Eugen Sares]

Hi,
here's a small bug regarding PPGs:

- open some PPG
- RMB on the property name, "Display as list"
- RMB on the property name, "Refresh"
-> the list sectors disappear, except the first.

You have to choose "Display as Tab Deck" to make it display correctly again.

Best,
Eugen

[Chris Chia]

Just a qn: why list is preferred than tabs?

[Eugen Sares]

I used it to compare/copy params from one shader to another,
side-by-side, and for screenshots showing everything at one glance. A
rare case maybe.
Besides, if the list header bars were a bit more pronounced in the
colour or size, it would probably be used more often.
Thanks,
Eugen

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

I think this "Display as List" is a pre-XSI 1.0 experiment we forgot
to remove after the developer left. There is an almost impossible to
find "Tab-Style Property Editors" user preference option that's been a
little more popular in some crowds

[Alan Fregtman]

An animator pointed out to me today that even after turning "AutoKey Modified Parameters Only" OFF in the Preferences (Animation), autokey still won't follow the chosen keying mode, for example "Key All Keyable". (Bug?)

[Peter Agg]

I still get annoyed every time I go to add a ICETree to the object I'm working on, only to create on on some random object I had selected. I can't even select the object inside the ICETree view either. :(

[Grahame Fuller]

There's an option called Allow Selection in Explorer in the ICE tree's preferences. You can also right-click on a Get Data node (including, say, a Get PointPosition that has a Get Self plugged in upstream) and choose Select Object.

gray

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Peter Agg
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 01:12 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Small Annoying Things

I still get annoyed every time I go to add a ICETree to the object I'm working on, only to create on on some random object I had selected. I can't even select the object inside the ICETree view either. :(

On 24 August 2012 18:07, Alan Fregtman <alan.f...@gmail.com<mailto:alan.f...@gmail.com>> wrote:
An animator pointed out to me today that even after turning "AutoKey Modified Parameters Only" OFF in the Preferences (Animation), autokey still won't follow the chosen keying mode, for example "Key All Keyable". (Bug?)

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Luc-Eric Rousseau <luce...@gmail.com<mailto:luce...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I think this "Display as List" is a pre-XSI 1.0 experiment we forgot
to remove after the developer left. There is an almost impossible to
find "Tab-Style Property Editors" user preference option that's been a
little more popular in some crowds

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Eugen Sares <soft...@keyvis.at<mailto:soft...@keyvis.at>> wrote:
> I used it to compare/copy params from one shader to another, side-by-side,
> and for screenshots showing everything at one glance. A rare case maybe.
> Besides, if the list header bars were a bit more pronounced in the colour or
> size, it would probably be used more often.
> Thanks,
> Eugen
>

> Am 24.08.2012 15<tel:24.08.2012%2015>:00, schrieb Chris Chia:
>
>> Just a qn: why list is preferred than tabs?
>>

[Matt Lind]

If "Display as List" was supposed to be removed, then why is it the default behavior out of the box?


Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 9:24 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Small Annoying Things

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

Display As List is not the default, try it.

[Grahame Fuller]

There are two different things here. The default is to display multiple properties as a list. That's what's controlled by Tab Style Property Editors on the Property Editors/Views tab of the Interaction preferences.

In addition, some single properties have internal tabs, like Interaction preferences or Phong. On those, you can right-click and Display as List. It's not the default, and it's not controlled by the preference. That's what might have been removed.

gray

[Matt Lind]

Yeah, it’s basically Maya mode.  I hate that mode as you spend more time expanding/collapsing sections than actually working with the information.  Tab style editor is much more functional and less clutter.

 

 

Matt

 

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 10:33 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: Small Annoying Things

 

Display As List is not the default, try it.

[Tim Leydecker]

softimage 2012sp1:


Using "M" having "sym" active is ignored?


Wouldn�t it be nice to do tweaks symetrical, especially with "prop" active?


Cheers,

tim

[Gustavo Eggert Boehs]

Not in front of SI, but I do remember that used to work... Is it 2012sp1 only?

Now, simmetry selection never worked, and would be great :D

2012/8/25 Tim Leydecker <baue...@gmx.de>

--
Gustavo E Boehs
http://www.gustavoeb.com.br/blog

[Eric Turman]

I am not in front of soft ATM either, but I am almost certain that it works too. One thing that will make it wonky is if you try to use proportional & symmetry along with COG mode active.

[Peter Agg]

Talking of symmetry mode: it would be nice if you didn't have to be at zero for it to work - I know there's a menu, but it doesn't seem to actually do anything!

There's also an odd one where symmetry mode seems to turn off the ability to move things in global space using the right-hand side bar!

[Ciaran Moloney]

On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Peter Agg <pete...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Talking of symmetry mode: it would be nice if you didn't have to be at zero for it to work - I know there's a menu, but it doesn't seem to actually do anything!

This works as expected here. 

[Peter Agg]

Hum, I'm sure I went though all the options last time it came up. Will try again Tuesday.

[Eugen Sares]

In the Explorer context menu on a Render Pass, "Duplicate" is missing.
Must be called via Render > Pass > Edit > Duplicate.
Small annoying thing...

[Orlando Esponda]

In the Explorer context menu on a Render Pass, "Duplicate" is missing.
Must be called via Render > Pass > Edit > Duplicate.
Small annoying thing...

...or just select it (Explorer View) and use Ctrl+D.    I think it's even faster than using a context menu.

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strictly forbidden.

[Eugen Sares]

Thanks, good tip.
Anyway, there's always a workaround, is it not. If a menu is useless, ditch it. If not, make it complete.

[Steven Caron]

just to add some context... the duplicate pass menu item was added because Ctrl+D can break the pass. on one of my first jobs users were duplicating passes and they wouldn't appear. through scripting they were there but not in the explorer. after some research we found that if the duplicate options 'hierarchy' parameter was set to 'none' instead of 'share parent' the pass would 'float'.

so, most of the time i now use 'duplicate pass' menu item.

s

[Steven Caron]

an image clip should always show the source!

often i will click the 'plug' icon when navigating a material's render tree. i will navigate down to the image node then the clip and i dont see the source.

s

[Dan Yargici]

+10000

This has always been a really frustrating and random behavior. The time control also. It's a lottery every time!

Sent from my phone...

[Xavier Lapointe]

Dispatch Issue in Python  >:)

This is __super__ annoying.

[Peter Agg]

Yeah, dispatch creep does make every update a bit tedious. Though in terms of scripting I find the times where a second attempt or print statement actually fixes something to be the most worrying!

[Toonafish]

Another thing I just noticed is that "Match All Transforms" does not
take "ChildComp" setting into account.

All children move with the parent when the parents transforms are
matched with another object when ChildComp is toggled on.

-Ronald

[Ciaran Moloney]

Wait, can I call mysterious segmentation faults on Linux a 'small annoying thing'? 

[Dan Yargici]

Again, +10000!

Sent from my phone...

[Matt Lind]

53) Losing connection with license server doesn’t allow you to save all your work.

 

I had many scripts open in a text editor on my 2^nd monitor when my IT department decided to reboot servers as part of a maintenance schedule.  Softimage popped up the lost connection license and asked if I wanted to save the scene, but it wouldn’t give me access to the ‘file > save as…’ menus in the text editor.  As a result, I lost my work in progress code.

 

Also, even after saving the scene, the popup wouldn’t go away.  I had to click ‘abort’ to kill the session.  In years past, softimage would automatically detect when the license server came back online and reconnect.  But apparently under autodesk that is no longer the behavior. 

 

 

 

Matt

 

 

 

 

 

From: Matt Lind
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 11:03 AM
To: 'soft...@listproc.autodesk.com'
Subject: RE: Small Annoying Things

 

Yeah, it’s basically Maya mode.  I hate that mode as you spend more time expanding/collapsing sections than actually working with the information.  Tab style editor is much more functional and less clutter.

 

 

Matt

 

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 10:33 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: Small Annoying Things

 

Display As List is not the default, try it.

[Xavier Lapointe]

Another one: Not being able to have 2 Softimage instances open simultaneously in Linux without experiencing severe lag.

[Stefan Andersson]

"one click" between maya softimage doesn't result in a correct camera in softimage. You always need to export it as .xsi

Python version is not the same version as maya's python

File window looks like a win 3.11 window under Linux. And is quite buggy.

Softimage still ships with mental ray (or more commonly known as Mental Delay).

Using the cache manager you end up with hundreds of clips in the animation editor. Point cache files has no business there. It would be better as a operator (not in the Ice tree).

Mesh cache should be compatible out of the box with maya.

Softimage takes ages to start on Linux. Even without any workgroups.

I can think of a few more tomorrow.

Best regards

/Stefan 

On Wednesday, August 29, 2012, Xavier Lapointe wrote:

Another one: Not being able to have 2 Softimage instances open simultaneously in Linux without experiencing severe lag.

--
stefan andersson - digital janitor - http://sanders3d.wordpress.com

[Eric Thivierge]

When using the "Pick" button on a get data node, it doesn't default to using self. or this_model. for the reference path.

--------------------------------------------
Eric Thivierge
http://www.ethivierge.com

[Matt Lind]

54) When working in the text editor or script editor, if text exceeds the width of the editor, the horizontal scroll bar doesn’t always appear to allow you to scroll to the text off screen.  Even if the horizontal scroll bar does appear, it doesn’t scroll far enough to reach the end of the text. 

 

Workaround is you must select the text with the mouse and drag outside the editor to get the text to come into view.

 

 

Matt

 

 

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric Thivierge
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 5:44 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Small Annoying Things

 

When using the "Pick" button on a get data node, it doesn't default to using self. or this_model. for the reference path.

[Eric Thivierge]

Proportional settings not persistant across sessions. "Consider Neighborhood" not on by default.

--------------------------------------------
Eric Thivierge
http://www.ethivierge.com

[Alan Fregtman]

Reading "PlayControl" with a GetData to get timeline information is unreliable, not in the data received, but that the reference gets lost very easily, usually when exporting models or renaming some model. (Can't remember how exactly at the moment.)

[Alan Fregtman]

Not being able to use the system Python is a little annoying too. In Linux we're stuck in Py2.5 because only the built-in Softimage Python works.

[Chris Chia]

I don't understand. You can't get Linux Python to work?

Chris

On 30 Aug, 2012, at 11:50 PM, "Alan Fregtman" <alan.f...@gmail.com<mailto:alan.f...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Not being able to use the system Python is a little annoying too. In Linux we're stuck in Py2.5 because only the built-in Softimage Python works.

[Stephen Blair]

On Linux, you have to use the Python that comes with Softimage. You cannot use the external Python. It is because of pywin32 (Softimage provides it).

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

Users can't use the python that's installed with the Linux
distribution. They need to use the version that's compatible with the
pywin module compiled with MainWin by the development team and
installed in the Softimage folder. It's not obvious to update pywin
with new versions of python because no one else uses pywin on linux or
gcc (obviously!) and therefore it's usually not just a recompile. we
originally paid the creator of the package to port it for us

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Chris Chia <chris...@autodesk.com> wrote:

[James De Colling]

another one...and I do like that term, Mental Delay

MR only uses 1 core to calculate FG points (in rendermap anyway) doing a 4k rendermap with FG just took me 8 hours...to calculate the FG..11 cores sitting idle

[Xavier Lapointe]

So Luc-Eric, that means that we are stuck pretty much for ever and ever on Python2.5 unless the new team rewrite Soft and get rid of Mainwin (... seems unlikely.)?

[Sven Constable]

hm,  MR does uses all cores and all  CPUs for FG at least for standard rendering. Only the old photon mapping GI/caustics) is single threaded, if I rember correctly (the newer irridiance particles uses always all cores and cpus, even sattelite CPUs).

 

In terms of FG only:

In some cases ( or most) you can speed up the FG with using 'Refinment Passes' under the advanced options. Feels like It scales better on the cores than the default settings because it uses  the MR tile order. It doesn't "hang" that much on certain FG tiles that happens sometimes with large FG maps. Maybe it depends on the scene but you should give it a try next time when you're having 8h of FG calculation.

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of James De Colling
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 0:29
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Small Annoying Things

 

another one...and I do like that term, Mental Delay

[James De Colling]

I will have a look at the refinement passed.  In general rendermap is extremely slow compared to a normal render and as far as I know there is no progress or completion info for it either

[James De Colling]

ok, normal render uses 100% cpu for FG point calculation, rendermap only uses 1 thread. (I tried the refinement passes option, to no avail)

can anyone else confirm?

Cheers,

james,

[Matt Lind]

Rendermap is a plugin if I’m not mistaken.  It doesn’t run through the same pipe as regular mental ray renders.

 

Matt

[Chris Chia]

If segmentation fault starts at XSI Startup, try clearing the following folders:
~/Autodesk
/var/tmp/Mw_*

Restart XSI :)

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Ciaran Moloney
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 11:51 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Small Annoying Things

[Rob Chapman]

having a path input for compounds that contain 'cache on file' nodes

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

Nope, it's possible to update python without dumping MainWin, the team
would have to make it a priority and schedule that

[Raffaele Fragapane]

"All" it would take is some proper python bindings of the cpp API. It could easily be done outside of mainwin as the cpp API was done a while ago diverging from the silly COM business which mainwin helps taking care of.
It'd probably turn out better than stff like pyMEL (which has a similar approach) given that the cpp API is a lot close to the scripting one than MEL ever was to the proper Maya API.

I had toyed with the idea a while ago, and had started looking into some assistend binding building, but it's a fair chunk of work, and just getting part of App to even register and LogMessage working required going pretty far up the chain (just to give you an idea).

If you fancy a nightly project... :p

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

I didn't mention that yes, indeed, you could just make python bindings
to the c++ sdk, because the ideal scenario is to have it works through
the standard scripting interface. That way the history log would work,
the ppg logic, and the script remain compatible.

Marc Andre did toy around with the idea of making bindings to the c++
(with boost I think) and that could run a lot faster too but it would
mean two incompatible ways to write scripts so we hesitated.

[Raffaele Fragapane]

It's the same idea I toyed with (including using boost, and had a brief and disgusting venture into SWIG territory too), while a bit above my par, I might have pulled together the education and learning needed to do it over some time, but the initial effort to get anything going was well above what I was willing to commit.

Much like pyMEL and the success it's been (despite the fact it couldn't support a few things initially, for obvious reasons), I'm sure people would more than gladly pay the trade-off in comfort and compatibility and missing features for the sheer performance and the possibilty to couple it with other useful bindings and arbitrary python versions.

I appreciate the standard scripting interface, the consistency across the platform, and all other things that COM and what it enforced brought with it, don't get me wrong, but in some regards the trade offs (static versioning and dependencies, mainwin etc.) aren't worth paying, and a set of good bindings to the API and a real, well implemented pyQt Host that goes with it would open doors that would surclass the ones that'd get closed :)

--
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!

[Ahmidou Lyazidi]

Maya has both, standard scripting and cpp API binding, which is a good thing!

2012/9/4 Luc-Eric Rousseau <luce...@gmail.com>

--
Ahmidou Lyazidi
Director | TD | CG artist
http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos

[Raffaele Fragapane]

Which is ironic.
MEL and their first python implementation were so FUBAR that they could just do (buy, really) what needed doing by introducing a completely separate way of working.

They had no object orientation or coherence worth speaking of outside of the cpp API before then, so even with all the gaps it was hugely well received.

In XSI there's a better track record, which means you will have to give up something, but at this point there's enough goodness in the CPP API, beside just the performance aspect, that I reckon it'd be worth doing.
Not to mention the viewport API in pyton would be cool to have, like Maya manips are (somewhat) accessible through the bindings, even if you can segfault maya hard every other minute when working with them :p

[Serguei Kalentchouk]

Well Maya's slow implementation of Python followed the natural progression based on their MEL their scripting interface. Wrapping the commands into python was cheap and effective. Alternative would've been equivalent to building a new SDK framework from scratch which wouldve delayed the introduction of python into Maya.

Maya's cpp API doest lends itself wall to object oriented programming either. The original straight swig bindings are pretty uncomfortable to use in a Python environment. Their new version is better but missing a fair bit in functionality and thus the adoption is pretty low.

This is where pyMEL came to play which wrapped the python commands and the python API hooks into an object oriented framework. However there is a performance hit that comes along because all of the sudden you are generating hundreds of python objects while doing simple operations that would otherwise be blazing fast in MEL or python commands.

This performance hit is the reason why Im currently in the process of rewriting an object oriented API for Maya I've been using istead of pyMEL into C++ and exposing it back via boost bindings. It's a time consuming process but so far I've been seeing a significant improvement with some tests showing execution time drop by more than half, that makes me hopeful that this effort won't go to waste!

I'd be happy to share my experiences in case anyone is serious about doing the bindings for Softimage.

--
Technical Director @ DreamWorks Animation
[sent from mobile]

[Raffaele Fragapane]

Agreed on all accounts, but that's a shortcoming of the API's design and a show of its age in some regards, not a flaw in the idea, given the material they worked with it's actually more than ok, especially when compared to the way things were before.
And practically anything beats by a mile the original joke of importing a commands module and writing excel macros in python ;)

Soft's cpp API actually has a respectable design and layout when it come to OO IMO, and would lend itself well to being bound.

SWIG to be avoided whenever possible though :p
Boost offers much better mileage even if it's an additional chunk of work from the semi-automated header parsing approaches.