my first experiment with rigging in Houdini :-))))

[Max Evgrafov]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkdQyet1EN4#t=24

--
Max aka Summatr

https://vimeo.com/user3098735/videos  
-------------------------------------------------------

[Brent McPherson]

Damn, I wish you had posted this. ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRZ2Sh5-XuM

[Max Evgrafov]

nr.Brent, thank you a lot. But I see that Hudini can  do something ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I-cKnahxkUo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rE9UrjYBLo

--
Евграфов Максим.(Summatr)

https://vimeo.com/user3098735/videos  
-------------------------------------------------------
Хорошего Вам настроения !!! :-)

[Jordi Bares]

Wait once you realise is better rigging system..

http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2193&Itemid=68

Jordi Bares

jordi...@gmail.com

[Sebastien Sterling]

I remember my first experience with rigging in maya:

[Oscar Juarez]

Is there a good reference somewhere about practices in rigging in Houdini? General not necessarily the character stuff, but more general approaches. Hierarchies, control creation, constraints, matrix transformations etc. Most of the stuff I've been watching is on SOPs which I guess it's not the correct approach.

[Vincent Fortin]

https://cmivfx.com/store/533-houdini+rigging+animation+fundamentals

There a 40% off rebate right now using the coupon code "HotStuff40"

[Vincent Fortin]

There's also http://www.digitaltutors.com/software/Houdini-Rigging-tutorials

I've never watched it though.

[Oscar Juarez]

Isn't the rigging fundamentals using mostly the guide and auto-rig system though? Or goes through all the things under the hood.

[Vincent Fortin]

I only skimmed through the video last year. I'm not really into rigging.

You better ask Cristopher Tedin directly, he used to be on this list.

I hope you find the courage to look into Houdini, it will open your eyes on concepts that you may be able to reproduce in other apps too.

You could also go here and search for rigging.

Some DT videos look quite interesting actually (but more advanced) http://www.digitaltutors.com/tutorial/552-Creating-Procedural-Rigs-and-Controlling-Motion-in-Houdini

On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Oscar Juarez <tridi.a...@gmail.com> wrote:

Isn't the rigging fundamentals using mostly the guide and auto-rig system though? Or goes through all the things under the hood.

On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 8:38 PM, Vincent Fortin <vfo...@gmail.com> wrote:

There's also http://www.digitaltutors.com/software/Houdini-Rigging-tutorials

I've never watched it though.

On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Vincent Fortin <vfo...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://cmivfx.com/store/533-houdini+rigging+animation+fundamentals

There a 40% off rebate right now using the coupon code "HotStuff40"

On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Oscar Juarez <tridi.a...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is there a good reference somewhere about practices in rigging in Houdini? General not necessarily the character stuff, but more general approaches. Hierarchies, control creation, constraints, matrix transformations etc. Most of the stuff I've been watching is on SOPs which I guess it's not the correct approach.

On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Sebastien Sterling <sebastien...@gmail.com> wrote:

I remember my first experience with rigging in maya:

[Srecko Micic]

Look at 3dBuzz website. They have some in depth Houdini rigging tutorials. Maybe older but I think still applicable.

--
Micic Srecko
-------------------
Mail:
srecko...@gmail.com
Skype:srecko.micic
-------------------
3D/Graphic Portfolio:
http://www.coroflot.com/SreckoM

[Oscar Juarez]

Thanks for the answers!

[Max Evgrafov]

Why do we need ice in maya?
ICE is in Houdini. It's Vex

I previously did  effect - drop passes through the skin. Now I try repeat it in Houdini. Yet lack the knowledge but I'm training
Vop Vex very like to ICE Tree. SOP is a great location to do RIG . SOP + VOP + digital Asset + Pyton OP ++++ is great power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClzFwO-_mic&list=UUjaTra5sDK8OOJQOS0ukbSQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCKL3bfWZs0&list=UUjaTra5sDK8OOJQOS0ukbSQ

[Max Evgrafov]

i'm training, and is happy, because  Houdini 's cool:-))))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYvPR3G1Zgs&feature=youtu.be

[Raffaele Fragapane]

Yeah, if there is one thing to say for Houdini, much like ICE did for Soft users, is that if you persevere through the initial shock it's an amazing enabler for learning the fundamentals of this trade.

It's worth trying it regardless of whether you plan to use it or not at least for that.

[Sebastian Kowalski]

initial shock is a good one, feels like being hit by a roadtrain.. twice 

[Max Evgrafov]

http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2692&Itemid=68

I talked with colleagues from neighboring studios who did effects for Stalingrad. They migrated from Maya to Houdini and very happy with that. And their work is very impressive.


Maya is a legendary product actually. Lots of cool things done with it. but Houdini is amazing and comfortable and Houdini have ice! and it is even greater. Moreover we must not forget that Houdini has CHOP. It is powerful tool for processing procedural animation curves.And Houdini all logical. All contexts are synchronized. this is different from a connection bigfrost. While exploring gudini I'm not saying oh shit, I'm just amazed how cool. (excluding modeling and do UV layout)


moreover  I inspires from this one http://www.awn.com/animationworld/disney-goes-wild

[Dan Yargici]

I don't think anyone would argue with you there Max.  I've started learning it myself and I'm really enjoying it.

What's a drag though, is that while a use ICE in %90 of the work I do, I use everything else that's great about Softimage (and not so great in Houdini) %100 of the time.

DAN

[Andy Goehler]

Sebastian, take it slowly and all will be well ;-)

As much as people like to refer VOPs/VEX to ICE, I’d say keep in mind they are quite different.

While ICE cracks tend to go hardcore in ‘one' Tree, the Houdini guys use VOPs in conjunction with the other OPs available to make up the overall result.

See you over at the SESI forum.

Andy

[Max Evgrafov]

Andy of course! See you later at the SESI forum ! 

[philipp seis]

i find the 3d buzz technical rigging in houdini DVDs very helpful.

Focusing on rigging, it keeps your brain from sopping and vopping around too much.

[Oscar Juarez]

Yeah reading the topics seems like a good place to start.

[Jordi Bares]

I guess the most exciting thing is that if ICE is procedural, Houdini is massively procedural and *everything* is procedural.

From signal analysis, geometry operations (Deformations) geometry creation, rigging, animation, *everything*

You can have multiple VOPs (ICE trees) talking to each other in ways so open is mind-bending.

Just have a look at copy/stamp techniques and imagine ICE being evaluated with the variable changes.

lot to learn though.   ;-)

Jordi Bares

jordi...@gmail.com

[Jason S]

While Houdini may be technically more powerful,
ICE, even if still can be considered somewhat technical, is quite known to be much more approachable and is (yet) another testament of bringing complexity to easier reach.

Houdini seems to be mid-way between actually scripting, and "higher level" visual programming.

We will wait and see how bifrost will be on the friendly (and integrated) side
(after foam and everything else concerning naiad will be implemented.. and graph actually exposed)

Here is a known (performance only) comparison between ICE and VOP

  http://frenchdog.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/ice-vs-vop/

And here is a typical and quite fair view of SI & Houdini

ct03

If you want a complete package (modeling, animation, procedural stuff, VFX stuff and rendering), Softimage is easily ahead of Houdini. This is because Softimage started out as a "regular" CG suite, like Max and Maya. All the everyday workflow is very efficient and convenient. Of course you also get some killer features like FaceRobot with auto lip sync, GATOR, MOTOR, Lagoa, Gigapoly, Animation mixer, history stacks etc. And then if you want to do procedural stuff, you can do that too. ICE has matured nicely and can make+deform geometry, do particle sims, make control rigs, affect any attributes in the scene including SRT, all without needing to code or write expressions (in Houdini you write a lot of expressions... stamp("../Pathsareannoying/copy2"), $CY, $DoIHaveToRememberthis?, 0, 0, 1) Houdini still has more raw power (except speed, because multithreaded ICE is very fast). If you're highly technical, know how to program and you're mainly interested in VFX then Houdini is probably still your best choice. But if you want a complete package, Softimage is preferrable. Especially once Arnold is available to the general public, which shouldn't be long now. Arnold is killer. It obliterates every other renderer.

>From Pooby

1. 05-04-2012, 06:24 AM#11
   pooby 

   
   

   Super Member

   . . .  ICE could be even more and it needs some competition.
   
   (Houdini's approach is currently far more reliant on knowledge of maths and coding so I dont see it as a similar beast, and houdini isn't a geometry animation centric package either like Softimage is)

sdsd

Mathaeus

Post subject: Re: ICE vs HOUDINI - Split test results (a comparison) Posted: 04 Sep 2013, 09:15

I'd also believe test is 'valid' today, too. At least when it comes to part where ICE is faster, that is, 'point pushing'. Actually, I think ICE can be even much much more faster when it comes to strands, as specially optimized, 'child' of particles. There is price for strands performance, as usually, some geo query won't catch the strand. As far as I know, something similar to ICE strand doesn't exist in Houdini. I think Houdini also does not have ready-made nodes like ICE Get Closest Location (working horse for so many tasks). But, I think differences are result of intentional, design decision. Generally Houdini looks like something more about flexibility, instead of performance, while ICE is more artistic, optimized tool. Artistic, here = (relatively) limited set of tools, together with (relatively) high level of user protection, allowing the creativity as much possible. Strong set of 'classic' operator in SI, makes ICE even more artistic - you're allowed to use ICE where, if , you want. This is not possible in Houdini. BTW, my knowledge about Houdini belongs to playing with demo, just a bit more this summer than usually, that's all.

[Jordi Bares]

The perfect combination would be Softimage + Houdini, no doubt… ICE is much faster but less powerful (imagine the extent of houdini) and it is indeed harder to learn but the payback is freedom.

Unfortunately AD has cut the bridge… there is no other route unfortunately and if it is a Houdini only or mixed with Modo / Blender / Whatever it is not going to be so comfortable for a while.

:-P

Jordi Bares

jordi...@gmail.com

[Meng-Yang Lu]

Hi Jason,

I've seen that link spread around a couple of times.  And I've kind kept quiet about it since it is indeed educational.  Just a heads up though, Houdini particles have recently been rewritten and unified into the Dynamics Operators context.  So where the evaluation comparison between an ICE tree and a VOP network might still hold valid, the particle performance overall in production is so much faster than before.  

-Lu

[Jason S]

Yes.. and please note that by no means was I undermining it's potential.. or for that matter, it's flourishing development.. & philosophy of life (sigh)

[Max Evgrafov]

second step ! go  ahead!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERrwmNH1fBM

[David Saber]

On 2014-04-17 09:51, Max Evgrafov wrote:
> second step ! go ahead!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERrwmNH1fBM
>

Very nice and interesting. How long does it take to setup something like
that?
I guess you're working on "The Killer Bean, Part 4"?

David

[Max Evgrafov]

I'm just starting to work in Houdini. I know very little about it. I did this rig two days. But if I knew more about Houdini than now I would have done it much faster. 2-3 hour I think... not more

[Max Evgrafov]

next step !   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai9kLopurTQ&feature=youtu.be

[Angus Davidson]

Very nice. Coming along nicely. Need more hours in the day to play with both Modo and Houdini

From: Max Evgrafov <sum...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "soft...@listproc.autodesk.com" <soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
Date: Wednesday 23 April 2014 at 10:19 AM
To: "david...@sfr.fr" <david...@sfr.fr>, softimage <soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: my first experiment with rigging in Houdini :-))))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai9kLopurTQ&feature=youtu.be

This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary.

[Max Evgrafov]

Yes ! Studying Houdini eliminates us from the shackles of autodesk :-)

[Chris Johnson]

How much of that is straight out of the box, and how much of that is using "houdini expressions" to create connections, ect.? Is there any vex involved?

This is coming from someone who is completely unfamiliar with Houdini rigging?

[Max Evgrafov]

I am completely unfamiliar with Houdini rigging. But I did a lot of time rigs in xsi https://vimeo.com/user3098735/videos . And I have consultation from houdini users. 

I used VEX to do intersection ball with box ( VEX similar like  ICE and it's helping me). And of of course I used expressions. How much ? mmm  I can not solve some problems still.  This rig is just training for me....  I do not analyze how much time I need to make the rig

[Sergio Mucino]

Honestly, I think anyone working with Houdini will find it hard to get around using expressions. It's just the way Houdini sets relationships between channels in the most efficient way (faster). 

Sergio Muciño.

Sent from my iPad.

[Jordi Bares]

It is not like they are more difficult than XSI ones… am I missing something?

Jordi Bares

jordi...@gmail.com

[Sebastien Sterling]

Is this to say, there is no way to connect attributes via point and click/drag ? you have to write them every time ?

[Jordi Bares]

You can do a Copy  Parameter / Paste Relative Reference, its the same.

The reason you don't have drag and drop is that you can copy things a various ways

Paste Copied Values (you just paste the number/string)

Paste Copied Expressions (you paste the expression that you copied)

Paste Copied Refererence (you link the channels with an absolute path manner)

Paste Copied Relative References (you link the channels in a relative path manner)

The equivalent to XSI is 3 and 4 (my approach) so it is pretty straight forward.

Of course if you want to do string evaluation (something you can not do in XSI) you have extra tools so it is not that is not as simple as, the fact is that it is more powerful and therefore you have more tools.

A good example would be to copy the data from another channel and parse it in python directly on the channel, this is something you can't do in XSI and is tremendously powerful in Houdini.

Check the 'pythonexprs(expression)' function that does evaluate python in any field and returns a string.

hope it helps.

Jordi Bares

jordi...@gmail.com

[Chris Johnson]

I guess that's more what I was getting at. I'm well aware Houdini is expression dependent. However, I find with Houdini you can easily slide into technical stuff, which is great, but at the same time daunting for someone like myself who does not do scripting. Therefore, someone like myself, is unable to take advantage of this power.

[Jordi Bares]

I have not written a single script in Houdini to this date… you don't need it due to the procedural nature of the software.

The most you will do is add a few simple expressions here and there to make it bullet proof so you don't override your names and small things like that.

Jordi Bares

jordi...@gmail.com

[Jordi Bares]

A good example, in XSI copying objects into each vertex of a mesh will require you to script a fairly convoluted piece of code and execute it every time you have to change the mesh.

in houdini that is 3 nodes and we are not even in ICE like world yet, this is object level.

Jordi Bares

jordi...@gmail.com

On 23 Apr 2014, at 16:58, Chris Johnson <chr...@topixfx.com> wrote:

[Chris Johnson]

cool

[David Saber]

Thanks Jordi, I didn't have time to try Houdini yet, but I'm already
enthusiast thanks to your posts!

[Chris Johnson]

I made the leap over to Houdini for one year to do this project 

http://vimeo.com/61021558

We considered doing the whole thing in Houdini...rigging as well but in the end we did a Maya Animation/Houdini fur lighting and rendering it all in Mantra. We advertised looking for Houdini riggers and didn't get a single application, the reason I bring this up. So sadly Maya it was as you can't throw a stone without hitting a Maya rigger.

The render times were ridiculously quick and sideFx was the best customer service experience I've had to date.

[Jordi Bares]

I hope I am not boring anyone, at the end of the day my intention is to demystify what so many people have come to learn Houdini is, if I knew more Modo I would be in a position to comment but unfortunately that is not he case.

In the meantime I am more than happy to help if you have questions.

Jordi Bares
jordi...@gmail.com

[Jordi Bares]

This is the one thing I am trying to solve, open the eyes to those talented high profile artists that unfortunately need to transition to another application, hopefully some will and I will be able to work with them.

:-)

Jordi Bares

jordi...@gmail.com

[Sergio Mucino]

There are some of us that do know Modo, so if there's anything you'd like to know, just shoot. Will do our best to provide answers.

Sergio Muciño.
Sent from my iPad.

[Sylvain Lebeau]

Please! Keep hem comming Jordi! ...

thanks for sharring

sly

Sylvain Lebeau // SHED

V-P/Visual effects supervisor
1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8
T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM <http://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM>

VFX Curriculum 03: Compositing Basics

mail to: s...@shedmtl.com

On Apr 23, 2014, at 5:26 PM, Jordi Bares <jordi...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Sergio Mucino]

I agree. Awesome work man. Really. 

Sergio Muciño.

Sent from my iPad.

On Apr 23, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Sylvain Lebeau <s...@shedmtl.com> wrote:

Please! Keep hem comming Jordi! ...

thanks for sharring

sly

Sylvain Lebeau // SHED

V-P/Visual effects supervisor
1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8
T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM <http://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM>

<am.png>

VFX Curriculum 03: Compositing Basics

mail to: s...@shedmtl.com

[Max Evgrafov]

[Max Evgrafov]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7bRzijbsnA&feature=youtu.be    completed the effect of collisions. (there are some bugs in the corners of obstacles. but I'm tired of doing this rig. :)

Next step creating digital asset( I think it like model in XSI), Reach an understanding how working reference models in Houdini  and then do animation.

[David Saber]

Cool! How about transforms on rig objects, how do you "zero out" control
objects? Is the object's coordinate relative to its parent, like in
XSI's "parent" translation mode? is there "add" mode for rotations?

[Jon Swindells]

houdini's handling of transforms is about as good as it gets.

by default, you will get a zeroed out transform on creation but this can
be pushed back onto the stack
as needed.

you can also quite happily stack utility transforms ala xsiNulls too if
that floats your boat.

the real eye opener though, is when you realise you can pull a transform
from anywhere, at any time, from any object
and branch however you like.

it really does make the awkward maya (and xsi to some extent) type
workarounds painfully trivial.

pre/post firing morphs are trivial, as is quat/angle based triggering of
morphs.

there are really only 2 downsides to houdini for rigging/character setup
-

deformations are painfully slow - on a production scale character, you
will be segmenting your mesh (hello 2004) and using bog standard
non-deforming parenting to get anything remotely approaching realtime
feedback.
even the dist based skin is slow as mollasses.

if your animator is used to (and wants/needs) the niceties of char
pickers or on char controls
expect to spend lots of time with pyside/pyqt.

of course, that is if you can find an animator who doesn't look at you
like your insane for suggesting houdidni as a char anim platform.

Jordi hinted at something coming down the pipe for anim/char setup so,
there's hope for it yet.


gimbal mode is there if you need it.

--
Jon Swindells
jon_sw...@fastmail.fm

[Jordi Bares]

Well put Jon, it is true that the character rig Side Effects provide is painfully slow when deforming but the issue is that it is trying to do soooo much it is really sophisticated… and slow.

I will suggest to play with a fast rig like this one to get a feel… it won't be as fast as Maya, this is one of the few strong points of Maya but it is good.

http://www.orbolt.com/asset/SideFX::toonsimple

And its a free asset so you can dig it and learn a lot from optimised rigging in Houdini.


Jordi Bares
jordi...@gmail.com

[Jon Swindells]

I did start out with the simple toon rig and, don't get me wrong, it's a
decent rig (which i learned a lot about houdini through)
but it also avoids all the issues with a quality character rig by just
not implementing any features that even the most basic of shots
would require.

squash and stretch, hose limbs, intersection tests (self and prop),
simple face shapes etc all pretty much require a skinned mesh
and, coming from an xsi workflow, it's a huge step backwards to have to
playblast everything on such a simple character

I'm probably sounding overly negative but it's quite frustrating to be
let loose with tools that are about as creative and open
as anything i've ever had the pleasure to break only to be stymied by
issues that shouldn't be there.


it almost feels like it's bugged but it seems to be the same on prod
build as it is on daily

iv'e not touched the auto-rig btw (other than an initial poke around)



contrary to the tone of my post, i'm actually really enjoying my time in
houdini :)


--
Jon Swindells
jon_sw...@fastmail.fm

[Max Evgrafov]

Jordi Bares, what do you think about custom deformer based by vex?  I did this using ICE   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqmLdoFPvTA    .  To do this i used multiply matrix transformation of deformers and point position of envelope. What do you think about this way? Can be it more faster than houdini capture tool?

[Jordi Bares]

I hear you Jon, this is one of the things I have been stressing out as it is very important for today's breed of animators that are used to real time performance in many situations.

:-P

Jordi Bares
jordi...@gmail.com

[Jordi Bares]

I would say it is going to be much faster… let me bounce the question to our Houdini guru's at Realise and will let you know the details… 

Jordi Bares

jordi...@gmail.com

[Max Evgrafov]

Jon Swindells, good to see you ! ( i didn't try your rig, but i wont to do it) I am sorry for my question. Can you say , are you xsi user ? Were are you going migrait?

[David Saber]

Thanks Summatr and others who replied my questions!

[Jon Swindells]

Hi Max, 

 

XSI user since v2

 

currently migrating to Houdini as my main commercial app with a view to going full 

Houdini/Modo sometime early next year

 

 

 

Blender/Krita/FOSS stack for my personal work :)

[Max Evgrafov]

animation test http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOYFG36Z8D4&feature=youtu.be

[philipp seis]

Hey Max, Houdini can mix MINIMAL ELECTRO ? Awesome ! :)

[Max Evgrafov]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldM9LP054KM&feature=youtu.be  custom envelop in xsi.  I'm finding way to do this in Houdini

[Max Evgrafov]

custom envelop in houdini http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQjOxoCf9nE&feature=youtu.be

[Jordi Bares]

Brilliant work Max… it is quite amazing how fast you have jump inside VOPs!!!

good work

Jordi Bares

jordi...@gmail.com

[Max Evgrafov]

Jordi Bares, thanks a lot !