Re: Digest for womeninmath@googlegroups.com - 3 Messages in 1 Topic

[Lenore Cowen]

It is very hard to move at the senior level, unless you are, indeed a
superstar. But sometimes the stars do align and it works out. But the
stars can't align if they don't know you are looking.
Apply to every math department in the geographic area you might be
interested in, whether they have a job posted at your rank or not.
Write a warm and nice cover letter saying what you are looking for,
why, in what time frame, and enclose a full "packet"/job application
including your CV, teaching statement, research statement, whatever
they would normally require for applicants. No need to send letters
until they tell you they feel they can pursue this further.

Do NOT say in the cover letter that you are not amazing (!) but say
instead that you understand that it is sometimes difficult for a
department to successfully argue for a new position at an associate
professor level, but hope that you are applying at what turns out to
be a good time for them, i.e. this means that your assumption is the
department would love to have you, but that the dean may not give them
the slot. This also means that it won't be awkward to discuss your
situtation with colleagues from these departments at any stage of the
process: you know you have asked for something they might not be able
to accomplish, and if they can't they'll say sorry and hope the
situation changes later, so they won't be embarrassed or awkward to
talk to you.


Good luck! Lenore


On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 10:19 PM, <women...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Today's Topic Summary
>
> Group: http://groups.google.com/group/womeninmath/topics
>
> Digest for women...@googlegroups.com - 1 Message in 1 Topic [3 Updates]
>
> Digest for women...@googlegroups.com - 1 Message in 1 Topic
>
> Marianne Korten <mari...@math.ksu.edu> Jun 03 03:52PM -0500
>
> Hello ladies, I need to learn some stuff: How does hiring at the senior
> level get carried out?
>
> Time ago, a prominent colleague told me you sort of mention you would
> like to change place and then you
> get an informal invite, and only then you apply. Now I'm definitely not
> that prominent, not in my most daring dreams :).
>
> Then there are places that hire at any level (?). I have seen ads saying
> depending on credentials of the applicant the
> hiring may be at different levels.
>
> I am targeting a specific geographic area (containing 2 math
> departments), and would (try to) move from one group II
> school to a similarly ranked one. I have been recruited for chair of a
> group 2 department and didn't want to hear about it
> right after my tenure a few years ago. I would be willing to try low to
> mid level administration but it intimidates me a bit,
> especially the budget and money managing part, and dealing with unhappy
> people.
>
> I am not amazing, but have solid credentials, including supervising
> undergraduate research and mentoring students
> coming form community colleges. I have several in-house awards for doing
> a bit of Robin Hooding and trailblazing around here.
> I have excellent interpersonal skills and vision, English is not my
> native language (I am Hispanic) and I suffer over writing.
>
> Thanks for any useful things you can tell me :)
>
> Marianne
>
>
> --
> Marianne Korten
> Professor of Mathematics
> SUMaR Director
> Kansas State University
>
>
>
> Dina Taiani <gta...@pace.edu> Jun 03 05:03PM -0400
>
> We were just trying to hire for a tenure track assist prof. position and had
> a person ( assoc prof) apply who wished to be in NYC. The credentials were
> good but the dean ( and probably my department as well) refused to consider
> anyone with automatic tenure. The school has been burned too much. However,
> there was a second person applying ( full prof who also needed to be in NYC)
> and was a bit of a superstar. My dean wanted us to only consider this person
> for that assist. prof. and the person did get hired by another school as a
> tenured full prof. The end result is the dean did not like any of our
> choices for assist. prof. We are rolling over our search.
> Dina
> Geraldine Taiani, Ph.D.
> Chair, Department of Mathematics
> Pace University, New York
> (212) 346-1786
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 3, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Marianne Korten wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Christina Sormani <sorm...@gmail.com> Jun 03 06:14PM -0400
>
> Marianne's question is of importance to many women in many departments.
> There are often rumors that advertised positions are not really open to all
> applicants. It also seems quite common for departments to interview and
> hire without sending any rejection letters to those who have applied. Women
> have reported to me that no one replies to their emails when they request
> more
> information and communicating at conferences becomes stilted and awkward
> around the members of departments where they've applied. Perhaps it is
> because they are under consideration or perhaps it is because no one will
> admit
> they had someone else in mind before the application even went out. Or
> perhaps
> its because the department isn't informing its own faculty as to what is
> going on. For professors like Marianne who have an imperative to move to
> certain location in a certain amount of time, this can be even more
> stressful.
>
>
>
> --
> Prof. Christina Sormani
> Department of Mathematics
> CUNY GC and Lehman College
> http://comet.lehman.cuny.edu/sormani
> sorm...@member.ams.org
>
>
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[Marianne Korten]

Thanks Lenore!!!

One more question... I'm currently full prof here, and have been for 4
years or so. Do you think
I should apply for an Assoc. Prof. job? That may be tricky on the $ side
(I have a college kid and
prescooler triplets...). I fit well among the full profs at my own dept,
about in the middle credential
wise, not taking into account years at full prof level (!).

I will likely get a colloquium invite at one of the targeted schools
before doing all this, I have to make best
use of this. Adding to all this, my own school has mentioned reducing
salaries (we are already at the bottom
of the Big 12), and has an impressive history of senior people (faculty
and administration) leaving :(.

I expect to have very strong and high profile letter writers, would
include at lest one former student.

Thanks for your suggestions :)!

Marianne

[Christina Sormani]

Marianne, first a reminder that this is a publicly visible group.   So 

don't say too much about your department.   Secondly, perhaps you can

email senior people who left your job, ask them their strategies for landing 

new senior positions and then report back.   I know many people easily land

new positions at the Associate Prof level and it seems that many people

jump departments after getting tenure.   What is perhaps more tricky is the

Full Professor jump and the salaries at the Full Professor level vary greatly

from institution to institution.

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--
Marianne Korten
Professor of Mathematics
SUMaR Director
Kansas State University

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[Lenore Cowen]

Sorry, I should have said "sometimes difficult for a

department to successfully argue for a new position at an associate

or professor level," (i.e. above assistant prof. level). You should
apply for "a tenured faculty position" and
usually your rank (and salary) will laterally transfer should they
offer you a position.
Best wishes, Lenore

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Marianne Korten <mari...@math.ksu.edu> wrote:

[Marianne Korten]

Thank you so much Lenore!!!

Marianne