WFRP Ruleset v1.5 Suggestions

[neilgfoster]

All,

Now that v1.4 of the ruleset is released, I will start to collect suggestions for the next version of the ruleset. If you have any suggestions then please post them in this thread. If you have made a suggestion before which did not make it into v1.4 then please request it again as it probably means that I have forgotten about it!

[neilgfoster]

Here's a couple of things I am thinking for v1.5

• Add button to character sheet to switch between full character sheet and a compact character sheet (ie. mini window)
• Add epic level threats from Heros call - drag and drop to a Npc in increase the 'level' of the Npc
  
  

[Skellan]

Might it be possible to add a story and image/maps tab to the player's side? I usually put details of the area a scenario is set in, in the module itself, but it would be nice to have modules that contain just maps and lore that players could open and view at their leisure. I did think of adding this to the library, but I think it would be better as a module as it may clog up the library and FG 2. 

[neilgfoster]

Images are a Host/GM thing only - this is how FG2 works so as far as I am aware I cannot get images that are held on the players side.

[Philippe Boujon]

Skell, we could create a module (vs a library) of images, which would have maps, calendar, etc that could be open by players. It's simply an option when exporting a module and opening it in the module window. If you want to help me on that, once you have all materials you want, I can help you set it up do that it works for players.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:42 AM, neilgfoster <neilg...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Images are a Host/GM thing only - this is how FG2 works so as far as I am aware I cannot get images that are held on the players side.

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[neilgfoster]

I don't think that will work Philippe - While you can create an adventure module that has all the images in, it is only the GM who can view and then share these images. Even if the module is loaded on the players side they do not have access to view these images themselves which is what I believe Skellan is after

That is my understanding of how FG2 works but if you have seen another ruleset which allows that behaviour, then let me know and I will investigate further

[Skellan]

Yeah, I tried with a module and it doesnt work currently as the players can view the story/maps even if the gm shares the module

The player's side of the Pathfinder ruleset has story and image/maps icons. I haven't tried these with a module though, but I imagine that's what they are for

It would be pretty easy for me to make a module for say, Middenland from the sigmar's heirs pdf and drop in maps etc. Its not essential but it would be lovely if we could do this

[neilgfoster]

Ok. Ill have a look at the Pathfinder ruleset to see how the professionals do it

[Skellan]

Lol to be honest, I was looking for things that may be useful for the wfrp ruleset and there really wasn't much, so perhaps you should turn professional

[Philippe Boujon]

Ok, sorry I thought there was an option when exporting a module to have it available for client as well as host. I'll have to investigate further.

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[neilgfoster]

I just had a quick look at the Pathfinder ruleset and yes, players do have an image button - but they can only view images that the GM has already loaded and shared with them. I have a bit more of a look to see if there is a way to get images available to players at will.

[Skellan]

I thought that's how it would work too Ceodryn, until I made a test one and tried it.

Neil - Cool, we are cutting edge here. The pathfinder lot will want one too if we do it :P

[neilgfoster]

Tried a bit more with the Pathfinder ruleset and it does look like you can create modules that contain images that the players can load themselves. I will therefore add this request to the list for v1.5 :)

[Skellan]

Fantastic, thanks!

[neilgfoster]

No problem.

Another one for the list I think - Automatically add basic skills when creating a new character

[Karma Kollapse]

Oh hell yes. :D

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Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 09:28:39 -0700
From: neilg...@hotmail.co.uk
To: wfrp3-vi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: WFRP Ruleset v1.5 Suggestions

No problem.

Another one for the list I think - Automatically add basic skills when creating a new character

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[neilgfoster]

All,

I have now setup an idea informer page for this ruleset. This page allows you to report bugs, make new suggestions, and vote on existing suggestions for the ruleset. I hope that this will help me keep track of requests for the ruleset. The link is here:

http://wfrpv3.idea.informer.com 

[Cutlass]

Very nice, I've added my suggestion to add an overview of alll effects in game as both players and myself seem to always forget some of them.Ideally this is something controlled by the gm, where he can tick off effects that are active, such as conditions, insanities, disease, special rules, action effects, etc... 

[John Condon]

Some means to have each action, career, talent, etc. indicate which set it comes from.
I know a common occurrence when setting up games if for the Ref to inform the players

"Ok, we are not using the stuff from book XYZ, I don't like it/own it/agree with it."

Putting filters in so the ref can choose which chunks of the rules he is including is "WAY" too big a consideration so if something where added that showed which set an item was from.. perhaps even just a reference within the text of each item on the notes section..

Or maybe even find some way to have the set icon display within the library item for each component.

JohnC

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[Karma Kollapse]

For what it's worth, this never comes up with actions, careers or talents - those elements are very modular and aren't dependent on the rules from the expansions they come from. The exceptions being witches, engineers and runesmiths, imo, because they do have unique rules - though you can still play them without hedge magic, inventions and runes.

Perhaps a better longterm solution would be to split the library up into library modules that only includes the contents of their respective expansions?

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Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 08:32:08 +0100

Subject: Re: WFRP Ruleset v1.5 Suggestions

From: johnec...@googlemail.com
To: wfrp3-vi...@googlegroups.com

[neilgfoster]

I think that would also be the best option. You could then load only those modules that you actually want to use. The card and career selectors on the desktop would work fine with this approach, as would the existing library screen (which means no code changes for me!)

[Karma Kollapse]

I also think this would be less work for Ceodryn (maybe!) as the .xml is commented as to what expansions items are... I think. Certainly the LOP ones were. And if changes in the ruleset were made, the library would still need to be changed.

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Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 01:33:50 -0700
From: neilg...@hotmail.co.uk
To: wfrp3-vi...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: WFRP Ruleset v1.5 Suggestions

I think that would also be the best option. You could then load only those modules that you actually want to use. The card and career selectors on the desktop would work fine with this approach, as would the existing library screen (which means no code changes for me!)

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[John Condon]

To be honest, that was my preferred implementation also.. Just htought it might be too much work for you Neil.. But as it turns out that would need "less" coding :D

[Karma Kollapse]

It would, in fact, mean no coding at all for Neil - just for poor Ceodryn :)

It would have other advantages, too. For example, if Ceodryn were to issue a library for the Faith of Sigmar POD, then unless you are using that particular module you wouldn't need to update it.

---

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:51:51 +0100

Subject: Re: WFRP Ruleset v1.5 Suggestions

From: johnec...@googlemail.com
To: wfrp3-vi...@googlegroups.com

[Ceodryn]

Yes, it would be possible to cut the library in several files. After all, when we started the project, we had 3 files (Player's Guide, GM's Guide and Creature Guide). However, at this point of time, I would prefer to keep everything within one file for ease of coding. Once we are done for coding everything (and we are getting there), dividing will be much easier.

If however numerous players/GMs think it would be a good idea to divide now, I'll look into it. I would probably have all the Player's Guide/GM's Guide/Creature Guide as the core and take it from there. This core would be basically equivalent to the Core Set, Creature Vault, Sign of Faith and Winds of Magic together.

Cheers

Ceodryn

[Steve of the Red Fez]

I would very much like to see support for superior weapons (i.e. items that receive a bonus fortune die). As it stands, when wielding such weapons there is no way to automatically have it add the extra fortune die because the items don't support it.

[Steve of the Red Fez]

One major suggestion would be to have the character sheets (and NPC sheets as well) populated with all of the core data that they will always need. For the character sheets this means all of the basic skills and basic actions (not including priest/mage actions since they are very selective). Having to add these every time we make a character is counter productive. The same for basic action on NPCs.

[neilgfoster]

Already on the list.

Check out this web page that I have setup where you can make requests for new features:

http://wfrpv3.idea.informer.com/

[Steve of the Red Fez]

Okay, this is EXTREMELY helpful! Thanks.

[Steve of the Red Fez]

It turns out none of my friends (or their GMs) had heard of that page. They were all excited when I told them about it (and led to a quick flurry of debate about what they wanted to see). Maybe it should be made into a sticky at the top of this topic?

[Skellan]

Few suggestion for you. These are particularly from a gm perspective. I have been using the pathfinder ruleset and while i dont think that most of it would suit wfrp there are a couple of things that i found handy

A button on the npc group that automatically adds them to the tracker. This saves lots of time. you can also set the tokens up on the map and they appear visible when you add to tracker

numbering of npc token. Basically this
Means that if you have a roomful of bandits, you van have one npc entry and it duplicates and numbers them as you drop them on the map or tracker. also having random numbers so players cant work out hostile numbers is cool. at the moment i have been numbering them manually and it can take ages

languages: theres an awesome language extension that only displays text if the selected language is listed as a language known by the player on their character sheet, otherwise is shows funny squiggly unreadable writing. this is lots of fun to use

Adding initiative to the tracker when it is rolled..not sure if this has been requested elswhere?

[Steve of the Red Fez]

These are ALL really great ideas, but that language one is an absolute GEM! it really isn't critical, but man does it sound like it'd add a hell of a lot to the experience! Kudos to you for bringing it up!

P.S. It'd finally make Education seem a lot more useful since it'd automatically filter the information from those who cant read.

[Skellan]

Yeah the language one is lots of fun. if it could be used for read/write too that would be brilliant

None of these suggestions are critical really as the ruleset is great - they are just nice to haves

And something else I thought of while creating modules is the way that it number story items. Basically they just go from 1 to 9. if you number a story entry 11, it places it in between 1 and 2. All the rulesets seem to do this - dunno if it can be fixed?

Neil - if you want me to add these to your ideas log let me know

cheers

[Philippe Boujon]

Regarding the story entries, I had the same experience so now I am following FFG structure and dividing things into episodes of acts.

Sent from my iPhone

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[neilgfoster]

Skellan,

Yes, if you could put those suggestion down on the idea page for WFRP, then I will have a look at them for v1.5.

[Flyndad]

UUGGHHH!!!!     I have spent literally the past three hours creating a response to this post, and now,... i lost it!,.. ggrrrrrr,..  Several paragraphs long and well written and explained and now GONE !!!  copied into my clipboard "just in case" then I went to share a link in my dropbox and copied the link into the clipboard. When sending the reply, I got an error and had to reload, and voooshhhh,... gone,.... <heavy sigh>..........

I made a publisher file to explain what was in my head regarding the mini-mini cards,... I would never be so bold as to call it a suggestion,.. just an idea to help have all the info in one glance, so to speak.  Link is HERE 

On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 6:35:49 AM UTC-5, neilgfoster wrote:

Here's a couple of things I am thinking for v1.5

• Add button to character sheet to switch between full character sheet and a compact character sheet (ie. mini window)
• Add epic level threats from Heros call - drag and drop to a Npc in increase the 'level' of the Npc
  
  

[Flyndad]

there is NOT a mini-mini card in the "chat" window as an idea. I only put it there due to space.   Also, the mini-mini card is really just a card without all the "stuff" on it.

Is it possible to use a graphic instead of numbers for things like recharge, fatigue, stress, power, and maybe even wounds? Like little blood drops or something?,..

If these could be "attached" to the character sheet somehow so that when you click on the character sheet they all "follow" ( they being all the little mini-mini cards) and there you have it. Everything affecting your character (and thereby your dicepool) at a single glance,....

[John Condon]

What'd be great is if this mini cards could be moved around the play area, like everything else, but then a right click function like the "arrange dice" were available which would re-locate them back to the tidy and next to the character sheet state.

Double clicking a mini card would also bring up the full card for the associated action/talent/wound/mutation etc.

Apologies if you already mentioned the aboce in your write up Flyndad

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[Flyndad]

Well, I did mention it in the VERY VERY long post,.. the one that I lost,..... but we are definitely on the same page John. These were my thoughts exactly. They could be just like "regular" little windows, but could somehow be "attached" to the main character sheet if you wanted them to be. That way when a player clicked on the sheet the whole thing would come into view. Also, the player could organize them to his preference and place them in the order he would like.

My reasoning for the placement in the (VERY ROUGH) screenshot is for ergonomic purposes regarding the creation of dicepools according to "how" they are put together and what factors affect what is added. In a clockwise motion a player could "scan" his character sheet. 1st - the action ( which could be dragged and dropped, just like it is done now), then, scanning to the top of the sheet, what disease, condition, insanity, etc., adding die as they go,then continue clockwise to race, order, talent, etc.. One of the advantages to implementing these mini-mini cards is it alleviates the need/desire for "automation" to a certain extent. I fully understand Neil's point about having some of the functions automated in that there are so, so, sooo many variables involved in creating the "proper" dicepool that it would create a veritable programming nightmare. By making it very easy for the player to see, at a single glance, all of the factors affecting his character, the dicepool creation, in turn, becomes easier to create. I mean, how many times have you already taken your turn and two minutes later you said to yourself "Ohh yea,... I forgot that I was perplexed. I should have added another black to that last roll". For me anyway, it happens fairly often.  I think having the mini-mini cards set up and arranged as they are in the screenshot would eliminate this to a large extent.

I hope that Neil doesn't think I am trying to reinvent the wheel here. I don't know if other players would like this or not. I can only offer a thought as to how it would help me feel more associated with my character.

For me, I find it easier to feel my characters current, overall "condition" if some of the factors affecting this condition are represented graphically instead of with just a number. I know it seems like an insignificant difference when written down, but in practice I believe that the difference could be major. It just helps me get a better sense of where my character "is at" if I actually see a large pile of stress tokens on his character sheet, or see a large fan of wound cards on the table, or see a tall stack of power tokens next to the channeling card. I guess you could say that with a number I understand it, but with a graphic representation I can "visualize" it. In my opinion this could translate well with the mini-mini cards on the computer screen. There is "space" on the screen that is consumed, there are colors that take up a block, there are "bars" that are tall or short.

To take this concept one step further (and again, I don't even have any idea if any of this is even possible, but) if you look at the space above the column on the left and just to the left of the fatigue meter, it make an "empty space shaped like a rectangle. The same goes for the space above the right side column and just to the right of what would be the far right vertical mini-mini card. The left rectangle could used to have a small window that visually represented one of the characters "brief" conditions, the type of condition that is easily forgotten when creating a dicepool. This little area could  state what specifically is added to the dicepool and could blink or vibrate or something like that just every so often to remind the player that he is "under that condition". Equally, the right side "area" described above could be utilized to show a graphic of the characters token and on that token is placed a graphic (a little blood splat or whatever) for each wound taken. Each blood splat would have a contrasting colored (white) number stating what number wound it is in the middle of the splat. This would let a player actually see how badly wounded he really is. Picture you token with 9 different little blood splats on it. The little white numbers inside the splat are telling the player how many wounds he has rather than the player having to actually count the splats.

Just under this area is the "top" of the right side mini-mini card column. The first mini-mini cards to be listed here should be the critical wounds. So in the upper right hand corner of the character sheet a player see his characters token all beaten up and just below this a list of his current crits affecting his pool.  [Pretty cool I think!]  

So,.. these are just ideas and I don't know if they are even possible and even if they are, I am certain that they would take an enormous amount of work to implement, and I don't know if other players would even benefit from them,.. so, just food for thought,....   Thanks,...       

[Flyndad]

Superior weapon could be a mini-mini card too ?? for that matter, attuned item mini-mini card??   

[Flyndad]

OK,  This one looks a little better,... Just some ideas on the mini-mini cards, and a screenshot of a work up done on a FG background. This should give anyone a better idea of what I kinda had in mind,...

[Philippe Boujon]

Ok now I see what you meant :)

Personally, I am unsure about this. Right now, the table is clean, but what when there is  a couple maps, the combat tracker window and a progress tracker? All those card tabs will be taking a lot of space. I like however how easy it would be to see the effects of conditions. However as a GM, when I'd click on a character sheet, I wouldn't want all those tabs to appear, otherwise it will definitely take over the GM's table.

Now, in FG2, there is something called a mini-tab/mini-sheet. It allows to display data in a mini format. As a player, I could move and organize those mini-sheets to be where I want on the table. 

I'd like indeed to be able to have the actions tab of the character sheet as a mini-sheet, which would show only the action names and recharge in a smaller space. I'd like to have a combat mini-sheet that display wounds, power, favour, fatigue, stress and the conditions suffer from. Remembering conditions/criticals is currently the most difficult, which is why I move mine on the shortcut bar, and create the effect next to it.

Now, i have been using FG2 grounds for a long time, so I am used to it, and can play fast with it (see my screenshot), but I understand it is confusing for newer players. 

So, it's an interesting view of the gaming table, and may be possible using mini-sheets. I am curious what other players think, and whether Neil think it is possible. 

Cheers

Ceodryn

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[Flyndad]

Comments:   

1. Yes,.. this would NOT really be for the Gm, but for the player.

2. This is just an example,.. the mini-mini cards DO NOT match up to the character sheet as it is drawn i.e., the power on the sheet says 3, but the mini card shows 7 tokens,.. obviously it would actually match up if implemented.

3. The player token image should be MUCH smaller

4. The area next to the fatigue and stress "meter" should also include a corruption meter with a graphic stack of the corruption token image.
 
5. A nice feature would be to have a "hover pop up" when mousing over a mini-mini window that displayed a very simplistic detail of the card i.e., <hammer> = normal, <two hammers>= +3 etc.
 
6. The area between the "meters" in the upper left and the token in the upper right would have the conditions, insanities, disease, mutations etc.
 
7. In the area on the current character sheet that displays your weapon, it would be nice to have two or three additional columns. In order from left to right, a very tiny check box, that when checked turned into a graphic of a fist or glove visually depicting the actual item you are currently holding. Column #2 - Titled at top "condition" or "quality" and a black, blank, or white square in this column next to the item. Column #3 - a white square in this column next to the item if it is attuned. This would give an immediate reminder of what you are holding, and allow you to immediately "see" to add the Correct dice to your pool. OR,.. maybe this is where a bit of automation could easily come into play. [ you drag your "action" into the pool builder window and IF you have an "item" checked that has whatever dice associated with it, they are automatically added to the pool.]

8. If space is a concern ( and it is since a limited number of actual "slots" would available for a mini card on either side of the character sheet) then would it be difficult to have the "action" divided into just a few small categories? Example: all "melee" actions / all "ranged" actions etc. Then, depending on what you have selected in your items area, the associated "action" mini cards are "placed" automatically in your available mini slots. I.e., you have your sword selected, all of you "melee weapon equipped" are loaded into the slots,... If you change your weapon and select your Long Bow, then all of your "ranged shot" actions are automatically placed in your mini slots. ... Just a thought...

As far as the table being "clean", I think this makes the table MORE clean, errr,.. cleaner.  Instead of having multiple windows open for several actions, conditions, etc. It is all compiled into one "sheet". All a player would need is this sheet, and the initiative window, all else would be the maps and images the GM sends, and by having it on One window it makes it easy to find and "bring forward". 

MOSTLY what this does is allow the player to listen to the GM better. Let's face it, VOIP isn't perfect and when playing you have to focus a little harder the usual. It is easy when sitting around a table, but when people all over the planet are together in a VOIP session you have to listen a little more carefully to know what is going on and where the story is. You don't have the benefit of seeing their facial expressions or their mannerisms. What I personally find difficult is to "listen" attentively AND, not just think about what I want to do next, but have to think about what page or tab I need to click on to get the information I need about my character and then interpret the "numbers" as they relate to other aspects (those possibly being on yet another tab) in order to determine the "next best move". In doing so I find I lose a little bit of what the GM was saying or talking about, "Now where was the guy in the wolf skin coat standing again?" This "One" sheet would allow me to just look at this window and whatever window or map the GM currently had open, and along with the initiative window, that would be about it,... I could Listen to the GM's descriptions and story line,... better.

Again, don't even know if any of this is even possible, but wanted to add a few tidbits after having given it some thought,... 

[Skylark]

Nice but should the grey-out not be the other way around, used actions are grey while unused actions are bright.

[Flyndad]

I suppose it could be done that way,.. All of this was just an example of course,.. My line of thinking when creating this was to simply divide the various actions according to what "type" they were i.e., Melee, Ranged, spell, defense. The grey ones you see in the example are "defense", and not colored to depict weather they have been used or not. That information can be obtained by simply looking at the recharge tokens associated with each mini-mini card. If there are charge tokens above it, it can't be used. No charge tokens and that action is available if appropriate,... 

Glad you like it!  It takes some getting used to, but I like the way ALL of the information that could potentially affect a players dice pool is available at a single glance,on a single "window" allowing the player to listen better to the GM while at the same time contemplate his next move, and reduces dicepool "errors" or the inevitable "opps", I should have added a black to that roll on my last turn. I just remembered that when performing a physical task I add black because of my rotting body insanity." kinda thing,...    TONS and TONS of work I am certain,.. but it would be pretty cool I think,...  

[Karma Kollapse]

Small but important suggestion: One of the action cards with TEW2 has a Sigmar's Comet modifier (like the cards from Hero's Call have bane or challenge modifiers). It is only one card, used by the GM (a requirement is that you are a person of some extremely high political clout), but figured it was worth mentioning!

[neilgfoster]

Hi All,

 

After a bit of a break from the WFRP ruleset due to work commitments, Christmas break, real life, etc. I am pleased to say that I am looking to start development of the next version (v1.5) of the ruleset.

 

So this is a little reminder to get your suggestions down on my idea informer page located here: http://wfrpv3.idea.informer.com/ so that I can include them in the next release.

[Ceodryn]

Hi Neil,

Well, welcome back to coding! :). We are also going to expand the library in the next 3 weeks, so it comes at a great time. I just went and mentioned a few bugs.

As always, thank you for your continued support!

Cheers

Philippe

[Arnaud v.d. Gaarden]

Hey guys, i just got a new laptop, so now i'll be available everywhere around the wold for WFRP :D !!! But here's the problem: so i downloaded the WFRPv3.pak and the wfrpv3 library, but now i don't remember where to put the ruleset xD, so can you please tell me in wich folder it goes?

Greets,
Arnaud

[Philippe Boujon]

You put the ruleset (.pak) in your program file/fantasy grounds II/ folder.

Cheers

Philippe

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[Arnaud van der Gaarden]

Thanks, just found it a minute ago ;)

Cheers,
Arnaud

Op 21 feb. 2013 14:32 schreef "Philippe Boujon" <phbo...@gmail.com> het volgende: