(probably) the world's highest solar powered schoolserver and mesh setup

[Anish Mangal]

Hi,

Earlier in the summer, me and a friend, Mikko, were in the high altitude himalayan valley of Leh, Ladakh[1], where we setup a schoolserver and a few mesh nodes - all solar powered.

This is a report by Mikko on the setup, which I thought I'd share here :)

https://medium.com/@skynet.admin/things-i-learned-building-skynet-3033a4ce8992#.rdyonwh0x

We hope to document this extensively, so that people can take it forward with the tools/hardware they have with them.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leh

Best,

Anish

[Steve Song]

Hi Anish,

The story of people solving their own communication challenges by self-deploying infrastructure doesn't get told often enough!  Thanks for sharing!

I've been thinking a lot about edge caching of content on networks.  One of the limitations of the USB stick approach is the nature of the memory which can only withstand thousands of writes to it.  This makes ideal for things like World Possible's RACHEL project but not so good for dynamic caching.   Caching video in particular is something I would like to solve.  Google have done a great job with their national caching of content (Google Global Cache) and now Facebook are doing something similar but it would be great to have a simple low-cost edge-caching device for video (say YouTube and Vimeo to start) that would locally cache any viewed video.  I think the technological challenges are relatively modest.  The bigger challenge would be to do it in a way that was palatable to YouTube/Vimeo terms of service.

Cheers... Steve

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Steve Song

+1 902 529 0046

http://villagetelco.org

[Anish Mangal]

Hi,

Mikko wrote more about this installation in the high altitude HImalayan desert valley, so I thought I should share it.

[Things I Learned Building the Skynet PART 2 — How to Eat Dust]
https://medium.com/@skynet.admin/things-i-learned-building-the-skynet-part-2-how-to-eat-dust-1a0c78a48fc7#.oc1bzbwcs

We also taught villagers in the adjoining valley of Spiti to setup mesh networks incase they wanted them, and looks like it is being setup in a couple of villages there too.

Warmly,

Anish

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[Vishan Jad]

On Sunday, December 11, 2016 at 10:27:02 PM UTC-5, Anish Mangal wrote:

Hi,

Mikko wrote more about this installation in the high altitude HImalayan desert valley, so I thought I should share it.

[Things I Learned Building the Skynet PART 2 — How to Eat Dust]
https://medium.com/@skynet.admin/things-i-learned-building-the-skynet-part-2-how-to-eat-dust-1a0c78a48fc7#.oc1bzbwcs

We also taught villagers in the adjoining valley of Spiti to setup mesh networks incase they wanted them, and looks like it is being setup in a couple of villages there too.

Warmly,

Anish

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 11:16 PM, Steve Song <st...@villagetelco.org> wrote:

Hi Anish,

The story of people solving their own communication challenges by self-deploying infrastructure doesn't get told often enough!  Thanks for sharing!

I've been thinking a lot about edge caching of content on networks.  One of the limitations of the USB stick approach is the nature of the memory which can only withstand thousands of writes to it.  This makes ideal for things like World Possible's RACHEL project but not so good for dynamic caching.   Caching video in particular is something I would like to solve.  Google have done a great job with their national caching of content (Google Global Cache) and now Facebook are doing something similar but it would be great to have a simple low-cost edge-caching device for video (say YouTube and Vimeo to start) that would locally cache any viewed video.  I think the technological challenges are relatively modest.  The bigger challenge would be to do it in a way that was palatable to YouTube/Vimeo terms of service.

Cheers... Steve

On 8 September 2016 at 08:45, Anish Mangal <ani...@umich.edu> wrote:

Hi,

Earlier in the summer, me and a friend, Mikko, were in the high altitude himalayan valley of Leh, Ladakh[1], where we setup a schoolserver and a few mesh nodes - all solar powered.

This is a report by Mikko on the setup, which I thought I'd share here :)

https://medium.com/@skynet.admin/things-i-learned-building-skynet-3033a4ce8992#.rdyonwh0x

We hope to document this extensively, so that people can take it forward with the tools/hardware they have with them.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leh

Best,

Anish

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Steve Song

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Anish

Anish,

I've read the blog but it says to be continued. When will the next part be published? Please advise as i'm very interested in doing something similar in other parts of the world.

Thanks

Vish 

 

[Anish Mangal]

 I can ask my friend Mikko about that (when he wants to publish), but I am happy to talk/email with you if you want more details. Following this setup in Ladakh, we did a few more setups in Spiti Valley (which is an adjoining valley).

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[Vishan Jad]

[Vishan Jad]

@Anish & Steve Song,

Anish, thanks for the offer I would really love to learn more. Are you in the USA and is it possible to communicate via phone conf? I want to do something similar with Telco devices far reach village/island etc. The infrastructure should allow the serving of RACHEL type educational content, Wifi voucher access using a captive portal like Coova Chili,

I'm willing to explore possible custom feature to RACHEL or any other similar product whereby the authoring of local content can be done. Do you know of another similar project like RACHEL, KA Lite, PirateBox, LibraryBox? I saw a more robust open source system called 'Internet-In-a-Box and wish to explore further development to allow local authoring of content.

WordPress LMS allows local authoring and can be served from a Raspberry PI zero or 3, C.H.I.P, or Omega, type computers. If you are a developer let me know maybe we can work together of this. Wordpress has so many ready-made plugins for distance learning, for eg BigBlueButton Conference plugin. Does village Telco/ Asterisk support phone conference? I'm hoping it's possible to bring together the strengths and RACHEL and Wordpress even if hosted apart on one device with access from the captive portal.

As for telephony WebRTC seem to be evolving rapidly, so I'm wondering if Village Telco device supports this technology, within the offline mesh and or with internet at the edge of the mesh?  In addition is it possible to hook up and SSD via USB and will that help to increase simultaneous access beyond 30 persons?

Thank you all in advance for your kind comments.

Best Regards

Vish

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[T Gillett]

Vish

 "In addition is it possible to hook up and SSD via USB and will that help to increase simultaneous access beyond 30 persons?"

The nominal 30 connections refers to the number of simultaneous wifi connections that can be made to a single wifi Access Point on a typical entry level wifi router running an OpenWrt BB+ based firmware eg the SECN-4 VT-RACHEL firmware. (OEM firmware is often much less than this figure)

The typical usage of this type of firmware is to provide a wifi Access Point in a classroom, with some local static content stored on the device itself (eg the RACHEL library) using a USB memory device or SD card, and also to provide access to an upstream network which might have other locally stored content and/or access to the Internet.

By having heavily used content stored locally on the device, it can be served directly (and quickly) to the requesting client devices thus minimising upstream network traffic and attendant delays. Caching on the device also speeds up access to repeat requests for the same content, as is common in a classroom situation.

The VT-RACHEL firmware does not host content authoring facilities as you describe (eg Wordpress) due to limited compute resources, but it does support uploading of locally generated content. So a document can be uploaded through a browser on a client device and shared immediately with the class.

We typically use 32GB SD cards with the VT-RACHEL firmware, but attached HD/SSD devices also work ok as long as you don't overload the power available from the USB socket.

There are many projects providing similar micro-server facilities. Each has its own characteristics and cost structure, and so you need to work out a good match between your requirements and the devices on offer.

Regards
Terry

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[Anish Mangal]

Hi,

Regarding Internet-in-a-Box, they have a weekly community call every thursday, you can check out the schedule. I am cc-ing Adam Holt if you are interested in joining this weeks call, please follow up with him

http://tinyurl.com/iiabminutes

Some basic questions about Internet In a Box / Schoolserver are addressed here:

http://schoolserver.org/FAQ

As Terry said, there is a whole array of projects covering this spectrum, so you will need to do your own research to figure out what works for you. In India, the setups I'm involved in do Internet-in-a-Box servers + SECN mesh nodes to extend the network.

I am in India, and happy to talk over skype/hangouts or phone (if you can call international). If you take part in the internet-in-a-box skype we could talk before the call as well. There are a number of internet-in-a-box volunteers in the US and Canada.

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[Steve Song]

Hi Vishad,

We haven't looked at WebRTC in any detail.  Is there a particular use case you are thinking of?  Voice?  Video conference?  It seems like WebRTC would relatively easy to implement at a basic level in terms of signalling calls, doing NAT traversal, and handling p2p calls, even video but multi-party video conferencing can become pretty server intensive.

Cheers... Steve

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[Vishan Jad]

Terry,

Thank you for your prompt response. Please see follow-up question below.

1. Can the 30 simultaneous connections be increased with better hardware or is it the firmware that limits this?

** Can this be increased in anyway? 

**for eg: by having local node cluster connected to single mesh node, via cat6 to 5 port switch then out from there?

** Are users auto switched to another mesh if a mesh device is maxed out? 

2. Is VOIP part of the 30 simultaneous connection or separate?

3. If these devices are mounted on street lamps(50-300ft away from houses) will the users be able to access them from within their homes( 4 walls)?

** I spoke with Steve earlier and he mentioned that the 'All Wheel Drive' device range goes a few Kilometers.

4. Does Wildernet firmware have management tools to limit connection by day, time and cap upload or download, using vouchers per SSID being broadcast? 

** We are hoping to build networks based on wildernet using AWD devices.

** We're currently testing on Cloud-Trax portal /open-mesh devices and these features are very handy.

5. Does bandwidth decreases for every hop in offline and online mode?

** If yes how can this be buffered?

6. Can content be hosted at the edge of the mesh(as a failover, or premium content) and accessed without the internet?

** Are there ways to increase upstream traffic?

7. As stated 'VT-RACHEL does not have the computing power for Wordpress'. How about AWD devices?

**Do you know of other router hardware that can support a VT network? For eg: a Qnap NAS at the edge.

Again thank you for your precious time.

Best Regards

Vish

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[Vishan Jad]

Anish,

Thank you! I would love to join the weekly calls but tentative on day/time, as I'm 9-5 work week and currently reside in New York/ eastern time. Does the 'Internet in a Box' have a location in New York or someone there I can meet with? I will try to join in on the10 am Thursday meeting, please provide a conf number if possible or internet-in-a-box skype ID. I can do a call with you as well at 12 am Friday or Saturday if possible. 

I've done much reading on the links you've provided and found a wealth of information about other solutions and current and upcoming features in school server. I have a few concerns on how these projects are supported and life cycle support for ongoing maintenance etc. Would you mind expanding on how this is done?

For eg: Do you go to different countries to set-up and train people? What is the current business model? 

Thanks

Vish

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[Vishan Jad]

Steve,

Thank you for responding promptly. 

As you know, more than I do, WebRTC branches into many areas. And given every hardware has limitations I'm no sure how VT may handle surveillance and, conferences(Distance Learning) within an offline mesh.

As for surveillance In high crime rate countries, villages and county, camera surveillance by vigilante groups can provide peace of mind for families. In some places, police, stations are miles away and vigilante groups patrol communities to maintain security. I believe having mesh access to surveillance cameras at different locations can be very helpful.

Apart from WebRTC does VT have youtube training videos or have any plans to provide quick access phone support SLA's?

We are very interested in getting started and need all the information possible to become acquainted, so please forgive my ignorance and rapid questions.

Best Regards

Vish

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[T Gillett]

Vish

See comments in-line below.

Please keep in mind that the S in SECN stands for "Small". 

The VT SECN firmware and devices are intended for use primarily in small networks such as a school campus or small rural residential cluster. You may of course use them as part of larger networks, but you need to do a reasonable amount of network design to make community networks that are fully functional, particularly in the longer term.

The VT project is not a commercial operation - it is a few volunteers developing an open source project which you are free to take and use. There is no commercial support offered, you need to have design and support resources within your own project.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Vishan Jad <vish...@gmail.com> wrote:

Terry,

Thank you for your prompt response. Please see follow-up question below.

1. Can the 30 simultaneous connections be increased with better hardware or is it the firmware that limits this?

** Can this be increased in anyway? 

**for eg: by having local node cluster connected to single mesh node, via cat6 to 5 port switch then out from there?

** Are users auto switched to another mesh if a mesh device is maxed out? 

The 30 connections is a limit for wifi connections to the Access Point on the typical hardware used.

All APs have some limit on the number of concurrent connections.

Certainly commercially available, high-end AP devices can support a greater number concurrent connections.

In the SECN firmware we hard limit the maximum number of connections to ensure that the device does not become overloaded. Commonly, OEM firmware does not do this, and the result is that the devices become unstable when too many clients attempt to connect.

This mechanism does provide a basic load balancing mechanism. If a client attempts to connect to one AP that is already fully loaded, then the request will be refused, allowing the client to establish a connection with an alternate AP within range.

 

2. Is VOIP part of the 30 simultaneous connection or separate?

It is just a concurrent wifi connection limit.
You can obviously network more devices via Ethernet cabling and switches, but eventually you will run into data throughput limits as the CPU gets busy.

You are probably better off in many situations to use multiple small APs rather than one large one.

3. If these devices are mounted on street lamps(50-300ft away from houses) will the users be able to access them from within their homes( 4 walls)?

** I spoke with Steve earlier and he mentioned that the 'All Wheel Drive' device range goes a few Kilometers.

The effective working distance is determined by the wifi range, which in turn is largely determined by the antennas used and the space between the devices, and whether the space is obstructed with buildings and vegetation. If you can position devices so that they get a clear and open line of sight then you will get the best results.

Performance will naturally decrease with increasing range. There is no magic here, this is just normal wifi equipment. You really need to do some tests and get to know what is feasible, and plan a network layout that will meet your requirements.

 

4. Does Wildernet firmware have management tools to limit connection by day, time and cap upload or download, using vouchers per SSID being broadcast? 

** We are hoping to build networks based on wildernet using AWD devices.

** We're currently testing on Cloud-Trax portal /open-mesh devices and these features are very handy.

Not to my knowledge but I will leave that question for the Wildernets developers.
 

5. Does bandwidth decreases for every hop in offline and online mode?

** If yes how can this be buffered?

If you want to use the mesh as a full bandwidth backbone, then you need to use a node with two radio devices dedicated to the mesh function. The LibreMesh project is currently developing the LibreRouter device for this purpose.

The SECN firmware allows a single radio device to provide both a mesh node and an AP to allow implementation of simple networks. The AWD device incorporates a second radio so that you can separate the mesh and AP functions.

 

6. Can content be hosted at the edge of the mesh(as a failover, or premium content) and accessed without the internet?

** Are there ways to increase upstream traffic?

You can host simple static web content on an AP, and the SECN VT-RACHEL firmware is an example of this approach designed for providing a classroom 'micro-server' which will operate without an upstream network connection. If there is an upstream network connection available, it will share it in a similar manner.

 

7. As stated 'VT-RACHEL does not have the computing power for Wordpress'. How about AWD devices?

**Do you know of other router hardware that can support a VT network? For eg: a Qnap NAS at the edge.

The MP2-AWD is essentially the same primary hardware as the MP2-Basic used for VT-RACHEL microservers, but with an additional radio fitted.
(The AWD does have an internal microSD card slot which can be used for content storage.)

If you want a more powerful micro-server to support content creation, then you need to look at offerings like IIAB / XSCE which are based on RPi3 or Intel / Gigabyte mini PC boxes.

Keep in mind that as you go up the ladder, cost, complexity and maintenance effort all rise sharply, and you need to consider this from the perspective of long term operation of the system.

Regards

Terry

 

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[Vishan Jad]

Terry,

See inline and please advise on comments below: 

Also please keep in mind I'm very new at this and need clarity before moving ahead. Thank you for all literature provided so far.

Best Regard.

Vish

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:05 PM, T Gillett <tgil...@gmail.com> wrote:

Vish

See comments in-line below.

Please keep in mind that the S in SECN stands for "Small". 

The VT SECN firmware and devices are intended for use primarily in small networks such as a school campus or small rural residential cluster. You may of course use them as part of larger networks, but you need to do a reasonable amount of network design to make community networks that are fully functional, particularly in the longer term.

The VT project is not a commercial operation - it is a few volunteers developing an open source project which you are free to take and use. There is no commercial support offered, you need to have design and support resources within your own project.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Vishan Jad <vish...@gmail.com> wrote:

Terry,

Thank you for your prompt response. Please see follow-up question below.

1. Can the 30 simultaneous connections be increased with better hardware or is it the firmware that limits this?

** Can this be increased in anyway? 

**for eg: by having local node cluster connected to single mesh node, via cat6 to 5 port switch then out from there?

** Are users auto switched to another mesh if a mesh device is maxed out? 

The 30 connections is a limit for wifi connections to the Access Point on the typical hardware used.

All APs have some limit on the number of concurrent connections.

Certainly commercially available, high-end AP devices can support a greater number concurrent connections.

 

In the SECN firmware we hard limit the maximum number of connections to ensure that the device does not become overloaded. Commonly, OEM firmware does not do this, and the result is that the devices become unstable when too many clients attempt to connect.

This mechanism does provide a basic load balancing mechanism. If a client attempts to connect to one AP that is already fully loaded, then the request will be refused, allowing the client to establish a connection with an alternate AP within range.

 

2. Is VOIP part of the 30 simultaneous connection or separate?

It is just a concurrent wifi connection limit.
You can obviously network more devices via Ethernet cabling and switches, but eventually you will run into data throughput limits as the CPU gets busy.

You are probably better off in many situations to use multiple small APs rather than one large one.

3. If these devices are mounted on street lamps(50-300ft away from houses) will the users be able to access them from within their homes( 4 walls)?

** I spoke with Steve earlier and he mentioned that the 'All Wheel Drive' device range goes a few Kilometers.

The effective working distance is determined by the wifi range, which in turn is largely determined by the antennas used and the space between the devices, and whether the space is obstructed with buildings and vegetation. If you can position devices so that they get a clear and open line of sight then you will get the best results.

Performance will naturally decrease with increasing range. There is no magic here, this is just normal wifi equipment. You really need to do some tests and get to know what is feasible, and plan a network layout that will meet your requirements.

Honestly, i've never set up something like this, but i'm sure i can. I just need basic idea on what possible with VT mesh hardware/ firmware etc.

 

4. Does Wildernet firmware have management tools to limit connection by day, time and cap upload or download, using vouchers per SSID being broadcast? 

** We are hoping to build networks based on wildernet using AWD devices.

** We're currently testing on Cloud-Trax portal /open-mesh devices and these features are very handy.

Not to my knowledge but I will leave that question for the Wildernets developers.

Can you point me to one of them so i can ask thisdirectly? 

 

5. Does bandwidth decreases for every hop in offline and online mode?

** If yes how can this be buffered?

If you want to use the mesh as a full bandwidth backbone, then you need to use a node with two radio devices dedicated to the mesh function. The LibreMesh project is currently developing the LibreRouter device for this purpose.

  **Is it currently possible to use the AWD device to build a backbone? 

If i understood you correctly only a device with two radios can be used to set up a mesh backbone. correct?

Isn't there any work around using multiple single radio devices?

Do you have an estimated timeline for the Libre-Router release, and will VT be coming out with new hardware  to support this?

Are there plans to upgrade VT hardware with better processors in the near future? 

The SECN firmware allows a single radio device to provide both a mesh node and an AP to allow implementation of simple networks. The AWD device incorporates a second radio so that you can separate the mesh and AP functions.

 

6. Can content be hosted at the edge of the mesh(as a failover, or premium content) and accessed without the internet?

** Are there ways to increase upstream traffic?

You can host simple static web content on an AP, and the SECN VT-RACHEL firmware is an example of this approach designed for providing a classroom 'micro-server' which will operate without an upstream network connection. If there is an upstream network connection available, it will share it in a similar manner.

If i understood you correctly the upstream network connection(Mesh edge) is limited to 30 connection, whereby the local AP access is siloed 30 per AP. Correct ? 

Is there anyway to increase the upstream throughtput? I know you said there is no magic here but is there no work around?

Is it possible to link several mesh hives together into one, and will this help with load balancing  or have this been tried or tested? 

 

7. As stated 'VT-RACHEL does not have the computing power for Wordpress'. How about AWD devices?

**Do you know of other router hardware that can support a VT network? For eg: a Qnap NAS at the edge.

The MP2-AWD is essentially the same primary hardware as the MP2-Basic used for VT-RACHEL microservers, but with an additional radio fitted.
(The AWD does have an internal microSD card slot which can be used for content storage.)

I see, Does this mean AWD devices can be used to set up a mesh backbone? If yes, what would a set up of that nature look like?

If you want a more powerful micro-server to support content creation, then you need to look at offerings like IIAB / XSCE which are based on RPi3 or Intel / Gigabyte mini PC boxes.

Yes Thanks i will try to get more details from Adam and Anish.

Keep in mind that as you go up the ladder, cost, complexity and maintenance effort all rise sharply, and you need to consider this from the perspective of long term operation of the system.

 

Point taken. I'm currently trying to wrap my head  around this to get a basic idea of whats needed and grow from there. I come from a marketing/design, and now IT support and software Q&A for digital signage background. Is this sufficient for VT or should i consult with someone with telecommunications background? Also how can i help the community? 

 

Best Regards

Vishan 

[T Gillett]

Hi Vish

- Many of your questions about performance can not be answered definitively as there are just so many variables in a practical implementation. This is true for any wifi network project. 

It is very useful to build some prototype networks in order to develop some local technical knowledge before trying to build a significant community network. Of course you can also choose to buy that expertise from a commercial provider.

You need to develop a clear understanding of what your actual requirements are for a particular network implementation (and some documents to communicate them to others), and then develop the solution to meet the requirements.

- The SECN firmware is designed to use basic single radio devices to provide both mesh networking and a wifi access point for client connections. It shares the single radio resource, and a single wifi channel, to achieve this, so there are obvious scalability limitations.

In practice, over links of 50-100 metres using devices with standard external antennas and clear line of sight you can get quite usable end to end connection speeds of perhaps 5-10Mbps with around 10 mesh nodes.

This is the sort of performance you need as a minimum to make a community network successful, and even then it will support basic network applications like browsing static web content - but don't expect to support Internet video streaming by multiple users; there is simply not enough bandwidth available.

(As an aside, the standard MP2 (FXS and AWD) devices have been tested support a telephone call over a distance of up to kilometre in ideal rural conditions. But this is a test under ideal conditions, not a practical implementation.)

Just shopping around the various devices and solutions on offer without developing a proper design will inevitably lead to frustration and project failure.

- The basic design goal for the SECN firmware was to provide a simple, economical networking solution for small campus deployments such as rural and remote schools to provide basic telephony and data networking. The underlying technology can be used for larger implementations, but additional network design is required.

- The MP2-AWD has a second radio fitted, so you can devote one radio to the backbone network and one to the local Access Point. This allows you to use different frequencies and antennas for the backbone and access point, thus improving scalability and data throughput.

- How well the mesh performs in terms of data throughput depends on the network topology.

If you have a simple start network where there is a single mesh hop back to a central resource node, then you will get high performance on each link.

If nodes have to traverse two or more mesh hops, then the data rate is basically halved for each additional hop as the radio resource is shared.

Adding another mesh radio (as is being done in the LibreRouter) allows you to run two discrete mesh links from a node and you can get (theoretically) full bandwidth on the backbone.

- In planning a practical etwork project, look for locations where it will be possible to place 'central' mesh nodes that are clearly visible from most other nodes so that you can connect in a single mesh hop. This simplifies the data flow on the mesh and will give best performance.

- The nominal "30" connection limit is just for wifi client devices connecting to an Access Point interface.

It has nothing to do with the mesh interface or other network connections.

- It is probably worthwhile putting the device technology to one side for a moment, and describing some practical examples of the sort of community networks you want to set up, including a small pilot project and also a larger project.

This will allow people on the mail list to relate more directly to what you are trying to achieve and offer some guidance based on their own experience. We can walk through a specific example in some detail and explain the sorts of options that you have for meeting your requirements.

You need to describe the physical layout of the network - the sorts of distances involved - and the numbers of users / client devices that are going to connect to the network, and what kinds of applications that users will expect to be able to use.

It is well worthwhile to produce a diagram of the intended network so that people can talk about specific points instead of vague generalities. This can evolve over time into a well annotated network diagram that allows people to understand easily how the network is structured.

Regards

Terry

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[Vishan Jad]

Terry,

Sorry for the late reply. I will be putting together drawing/map of the location and sharing it here, so others can chime in as well. The drawing will show location distant, user etc. for mesh nodes.

Building the mesh backbone with VT sounds promising, sounds like a better fit for what I'm contemplating. What would the average capacity for up/downstream bandwidth be if the 5ghz was used as an offline/backbone option? Will it be enough to support video, VOIP and Web content delivery to or from mesh edge?

 Also, i asked earlier if VT will be implementing LibreRouter as part of build offering and when devices with Libre will be on the VT store?

Please advise.

Thanks

Vish

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[Michel Daggelinckx]

Hi,

If you need high speed backbone you could use BGP for routing. The MP02 AWD is a custom device so the following questions rise.

Is the eth port part of the lan? if so we can use dhcp from the backbone router and VT will just be a virtual switch.

How to setup voip numbers, the IP relation to voip number will not work as each VT part of the net will have its own address range. Maybe use an asterisk or freeswitch server?

BGP has a steep learning curve and is expensive to setup but can make the full bandwidth of the wireless devices used. a node will contain 1 BGP capable router and at least 2 wireless devices. We use mikrotik for the router and ubiquity for wireless. we cover an area of 200 KM x 90 KM with 600+ nodes connecting to the internet trough 5 datacenters. We use 5Ghz for backbone (less interference) and 2.4 Ghz for client access.

The disadvantage of this setup is that each VT part of the net will need different AP SSID's and users will lose connection and get a new address when they move from one part to another and voip and streaming will be interrupted.

Michel

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[T Gillett]

Hi Vish

The data throughput capability of the mesh used as a backbone network will depend on many factors in a practical implementation, but it is quite possible to get throughput in the range 5 - 10 Mbps in a practical mesh network with reasonable link distances and simple devices. With more elaborate devices and better/directional antennas you can achieve faster data rates over greater link distances.

For comparison, these are the sort of data rates that you might get from a typical home ADSL Internet connection. But keep in mind that the data rate is shared on a backbone network, whereas it may all be available to a single user in a home ADSL situation.

VoIP is a relatively lightweight user of data capacity, whereas video streaming is a heavy user, typically 10x the usage of VoIP.

Keep in mind that the data throughput rate on the backbone has to be shared by many users, so it is a quite different situation to having one user streaming video over an ADSL connection compared to many users on a network.

If you have locally stored content, then you may be able to arrange for it to be available to users without imposing an overhead on the backbone network. For example using an MP2 as a VT-RACHEL server will allow a classroom of 30 students to watch Khan Academy videos and browse Wikipedia for Schools concurrently and with high performance. This is because the content only has to travel over the local wifi link where the bandwidth can be 50Mbps or more. So storing or caching content locally can dramatically improve access.

But if your proposed usage is primarily about providing shared Internet access for a large number of users on your network, then you will have to carefully manage bottlenecks in the backbone network, particularly if there is a user expectation of being able to access content like streamed video for lots of users concurrently. Even in a wired network this can be challenging - ask any sys/network admin person.

We do plan to implement the SECN firmware on the LibreRouter hardware when it becomes available. We are also looking at ways of integrating VT SECN devices into a larger LibreMesh network to get the benefits of both large and small scale.

If you are planning a medium to large scale network it may be worth investing the effort to implement LibreMesh from the outset.

The LibreRouter design and development process is still underway and it will be several months before initial production happens, so I would not expect to see them readily available before Q3/4 this year.

I am not sure what the supply arrangements will be, but I expect that they will be available to order online for worldwide delivery via a project website or direct from the manufacturer's outlets.

It is also worth keeping in mind that specialised commercial devices such as the Ubiquity and Mikrotik equipment can be used as part of the backbone network to provide long links and facilities like user access management  and QoS for data on the network.

Regards

Terry

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