Macbook § key can't be mapped?

[luizb...@yahoo.com.br]

 I have this key just left of the 1 key with a § symbol, I'm trying to remap it to act like the standard ~ key but no matter what I do this key will not show on Ukelele. I press it and nothing happens, it's like the application can not recognize it. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks in advance!

[Sorin Paliga]

The issue is linked to the type of physical keyboard you have, and the keylayout you use. In macOS, this key alternates with the one left to Z (on the ISO QWERTY keyboards, e.g. those sold in Europe). If this does not exist, as in U.S., that symbol vanishes, but is probably shows up at the option/alt level. This happens because the chars mapped on the key left to Z move to the key left to 1. In a carefully designed keylayout, the chars mapped on this key should be accessible elsewhere too, just because of this change.

In order to visualise how the keylayout behaves, depending on the physical keyboard, choose the keyboard you use: View/Keyboard type. What physical keyboard is there? With or without the extra key left to Z? (or Y on the QWERTZ ones).

Am I clear? 

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[Gé van Gasteren]

Hi Luis,

I think the problem is that you have an ISO keyboard, but Ukelele still displays an ANSI keyboard layout.
Ukelele tries to determine which physical keyboard you are using, but that doesn't always work.

In such cases, you can tell Ukelele which layout you want it to show:
In Ukelele, go to the menu View/Keyboard Type…. In the dialog, choose something like USB Pro Keyboard and change the drop-down menu from ANSI to ISO.

Then you'll see an extra key appear in the Ukelele window between the left Shift key and the Z.

Hopefully, all will be OK then, and the display on the screen matches your physical keyboard.

In case it doesn't, here's some more detail that might help:
On my physical keyboard (made for use with MSWindows) there's a quirk that I have to press the key between the left Shift key and the Z to get the §, even though Ukelele shows it top left, and I have to press the key top left on the physical keyboard to produce the grave accent ` so in fact the two keys appear to be swapped. It's not a big thing; one gets used to it...

If you can't get it to work with the above, there's still a way to access the key's assignment, namely through its keycode, but I think you won't need that.

Let us know...

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[luizb...@yahoo.com.br]

Thank you very much! 

   Now the application can see the key, I successfully re mapped the § key to to work as ~, created a new keyboard layout and installed. Looks like it works just fine, but my primary language is Portuguese and whenever I try to type a word like ã using the re mapped key I end up with ~a instead, while using the original key I can get ã that I need. Any ideia?

Thanks again for your help!

[Sorin Paliga]

Chars like ã (cão) or õ require either a direct char ã or õ, or a dead key, which has the role to trigger a small mechanism. If you activate the Portuguese keylayout, you should get it at zero level or via a dead key. Activate Keyboard Viewer, it will display picture of the keyboard and you may see where the chars are located.

Could you be more specific? Have you activated the Portuguese keylayout and you do not have ã and õ?! Or you use the English/US keylayout, and you wish to get these? If the latter case, press option and n simultaneously, then a or o, and you will get ã and õ, respectively. If you activatge Portuguese, you have dead ~ left to \ ã õ ñ 

I attach the Portuguese keylayout, dead ~ ´ are highlighted.

On 17 Dec 2016, at 12:46, luizbrunner via Ukelele Users <ukelel...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

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[luizb...@yahoo.com.br]

Sorry but my knowledge on this matter is not really good, I'm actually following some tutorias trying to swap the § key with the ` key. As you can see on the picture below the original `key is indeed a dead key (whatever it means). So maybe that's why I'm not able to get ã from the re mapped keyboard. To illustrate how it works here I first press shift + ~ and the ~ will become yellow, then pressing the a key will result in ã. Sorry my lack of knowledge and I really appreciate your patient.

Regards.

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 11:29:21 AM UTC+3, luizb...@yahoo.com.br wrote:

[Gé van Gasteren]

S

​orry, it's the usual case: If you don't describe what your situation is and what you're aiming at, you'll get very partial and sometimes even useless knowledge...

So please explain what you want to achieve with your custom layout.
Or: what is not to your liking in the layout you are using now (what is the name, please?) which produces ã so nicely?

Some detail: typing two keystrokes like ~ a produces ã if the ~ is defined as a so-called "dead key". You can do that with Ukelele, but you'll have to study a bit more for that. An easier way may be if you start with a layout where it already works, only on a different key, and then move that to where you want it.

It's also good to follow the Tutorial or look in the Help…​

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[luizb...@yahoo.com.br]

So you used the magic word to move the existing key , all I had to do was to copy and paste the key to the new position. Now works great! I really appreciate your help.

Regards!

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 11:29:21 AM UTC+3, luizb...@yahoo.com.br wrote:

[Sorin Paliga]

I see, but ~ on a and o, which means the char with diacritical ã or õ or ñ cannot be created by adding ~ to a, o and n, but by choosing a diacritical mark on these letters.

You have not answered some basic questions, so we may help you: what mac OS are you using? what keyboard layout(s) are active there? which is your basic keylayout (U.S.? European Portuguese? Brazilian PG? else?); why the existing keylayout(s) does/do not satisfy you? (which one, specifically, is the issue?); why do you want to move ~ from left to Z to left to 1? (remember that ~, even if moved from one location to another, does NOT create a diacritical mark); what type of physical keyboard do you have? (with or without the key left to Z?)

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[Gé van Gasteren]

Hi Sorin,

I think Luiz has something like beginner’s luck, just stumbling across solutions almost without looking...

He has been using the European Portuguese layout (on an ISO keyboard, probably a MacBook bought in Portugal); the ones for Brazilian Portuguese don’t have that dead key he talked about.

Let’s see what more questions he comes up with ;-)

On 17 December 2016 at 13:02, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:

I see, but ~ on a and o, which means the char with diacritical ã or õ or ñ cannot be created by adding ~ to a, o and n, but by choosing a diacritical mark on these letters.

You have not answered some basic questions, so we may help you: what mac OS are you using? what keyboard layout(s) are active there? which is your basic keylayout (U.S.? European Portuguese? Brazilian PG? else?); why the existing keylayout(s) does/do not satisfy you? (which one, specifically, is the issue?); why do you want to move ~ from left to Z to left to 1? (remember that ~, even if moved from one location to another, does NOT create a diacritical mark); what type of physical keyboard do you have? (with or without the key left to Z?)

On 17 Dec 2016, at 13:31, luizbrunner via Ukelele Users <ukelele-users@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Sorry but my knowledge on this matter is not really good, I'm actually following some tutorias trying to swap the § key with the ` key. As you can see on the picture below the original `key is indeed a dead key (whatever it means). So maybe that's why I'm not able to get ã from the re mapped keyboard. To illustrate how it works here I first press shift + ~ and the ~ will become yellow, then pressing the a key will result in ã. Sorry my lack of knowledge and I really appreciate your patient.

Regards.

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 11:29:21 AM UTC+3, luizb...@yahoo.com.br wrote:

 I have this key just left of the 1 key with a § symbol, I'm trying to remap it to act like the standard ~ key but no matter what I do this key will not show on Ukelele. I press it and nothing happens, it's like the application can not recognize it. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks in advance!

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[luizb...@yahoo.com.br]

I would never call the help I've got here beginners luck, that would be somewhat offensive to the spot on replies to my post. Copy and paste the dead key did the job for me. Can't thank enough the ones sharing the knowledge here.
Regards

[Gé van Gasteren]

Yeah, but it was rather by chance that I mentioned that, not knowing your situation or your goal!

Anyway! Enjoy, and read the manual some time :-)

On 17 December 2016 at 14:29, luizbrunner via Ukelele Users <ukelel...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I would never call the help I've got here beginners luck, that would be somewhat offensive to the spot on replies to my post. Copy and paste the dead key did the job for me. Can't thank enough the ones sharing the knowledge here.
Regards

[Sorin Paliga]

It is not yet clear what you have there and what you need, in fact. But, if you are satisfied with the result, so much the better.
@Gé. Curiously enough, both Brazilian and Brazilian Pro do not include dead tilde, but Brazilian-ABNT 2 does include it. It is not clear that ABN2 stands for, but this is curious, as both ã and õ are mandatory for Portuguese.


> On 17 Dec 2016, at 15:26, luizbrunner via Ukelele Users <ukelel...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> I would never call the help I've got here beginners luck, that would be somewhat offensive to the spot on replies to my post. Copy and past the dead key did the job for me. Can't thank enough the ones sharing the knowledge here.
> Regards
>

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[Tom Gewecke]

> On Dec 17, 2016, at 9:16 AM, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Curiously enough, both Brazilian and Brazilian Pro do not include dead tilde

Mine do include dead tilde, one at option - n the other at option -`.

[Sorin Paliga]

Yes, from unknown reasons, Keyboard Viewer did not display the dead keys! Upon a 2nd attempt, it did. It wouls have been curious to not include dead tilde for Brazilian Portuguese.