Can't select new keyboard in OS 10.13

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I've been a satisfied user of Ukelele for years (I was subscribed to this group under a different email address, but, not having had any problems I got out of the habit of visiting this group). All that ended after upgrading my OS to 10.13.1 and now to 10.13.2 (High Sierra). Initially it worked, with minor problems, primarily that  the circumflex used to be a dead key in my custom keyboard but had become a normal key, so typing ^e produced ^e rather than ê. In previous OS's it had behaved just as it does on a standard French AZERTY keyboard. (I am in France and the keys on my keyboard are labelled as in French). That was irritating, but I could live with it as I could always switch to the standard French keyboard when I wanted to type in French. However, yesterday I decided the time had come fix it, which I did, by editing it in Ukelele. All efforts to install it in the computer have failed; I've moved it manually from the work folder to keyboard layouts; I've used Ukelele to install it, both for all users and for the current user. Nothing worked: Keyboard:Input sources simply refuses to see it when I try to add it. I've restarted the computer several times, but it doesn't work.

What is worse, I can no longer get to the previous custom keyboard with the undead circumflex. So a minor inconvenience has become a major one. I often need to type Spanish names, so alt-n is supposed to give ñ, and alt-a is supposed to give á, etc. I can't do any of that now, though these are not too difficult to type on a French keyboard. However, I also used Ukelele to define longish strings with a single keystroke: for example, alt-& used to give my email address.

I've tried various solutions suggested on the web, but none of these has worked.

Incidentally, Ukelele frequently crashes in OS 10.13. I thought that might be due to using an older version, but even after upgrading to the current version it still happens, for example when saving or even just quitting.

[Sorin Paliga]

The steps in order to adapt/modify an existing keylayout are:

– make a copy of the original keylayout;

– open it in UKELELE, and give it another name and, recommended, another ID (number).

– save it, modify as you wish, make a final save, and generate the keylayout;

– move it or, better, a copy of the new keylayout to /Library/Keyboard layouts

– restart the computer or log out and log in again (sometimes they work without this restart, but it is better);

– go to sys prefs/keyboard/input sources; note that some new keylayouts, if not allocated a specific language/script, may be under Others, as attached. Yours may be there.

What you say does not seem to be connected to the last upgrade to High Sierra, as these keylayouts have been working in the same way (or almost) since 10.2.0 onwards.

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[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Thanks, Cattus Thraex. With one exception, all that corresponds with what I've done. The exception is "give it another name and, recommended, another ID (number)." But how do I set the ID number, something I've never worried about in the past. Ukelele seems to assign ID numbers in some mysterious way of its own, and I can't see a mechanism to change them. For example, if I open a file and click on "Info" it tells me that the ID number is -12,851, but where did that number come from? I'm pretty certain it didn't come from me. If I click or double-click on the number nothing happens. Is there another place to access the ID number?

[Sorin Paliga]

Changing the ID is not mandatory, but it may help. Now, I see that changing the ID number has vanished, it was located in Keyboard Name, and there was a button to change the ID. Perhaps this is done automatically or there is something I have to re-learn again. 

But, aside this, Is it OK now? 

On 17 Dec 2017, at 16:24, Athel Cornish-Bowden <athe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Cattus Thraex. With one exception, all that corresponds with what I've done. The exception is "give it another name and, recommended, another ID (number)." But how do I set the ID number, something I've never worried about in the past. Ukelele seems to assign ID numbers in some mysterious way of its own, and I can't see a mechanism to change them. For example, if I open a file and click on "Info" it tells me that the ID number is -12,851, but where did that number come from? I'm pretty certain it didn't come from me. If I click or double-click on the number nothing happens. Is there another place to access the ID number?

[Gé van Gasteren]

Frankly, I think your problems are more serious than two layouts having the same ID.

Anyway: When you do the command Keyboard/Set Keyboard Name and Script", selecting a different option for the Script (e.g. Roman) and clicking OK makes Ukelele assign a new unique ID, as far as I know. So doing that, then reverting to Unicode, would do the trick.

This should only be necessary if you duplicated the Ukelele file in the Finder. If you did File/Duplicate inside Ukelele, I’m pretty sure this issue is taken care of already.

I vaguely remember that John put in some more automatic thing a few versions ago, but I forget how that worked.

Hope that helps, who knows!

On 17 December 2017 at 15:24, Athel Cornish-Bowden <athe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Cattus Thraex. With one exception, all that corresponds with what I've done. The exception is "give it another name and, recommended, another ID (number)." But how do I set the ID number, something I've never worried about in the past. Ukelele seems to assign ID numbers in some mysterious way of its own, and I can't see a mechanism to change them. For example, if I open a file and click on "Info" it tells me that the ID number is -12,851, but where did that number come from? I'm pretty certain it didn't come from me. If I click or double-click on the number nothing happens. Is there another place to access the ID number?

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[Sorin Paliga]

I have found that manually changing the ID does not work, in the sense that this option does not exist any more! I did change a test keylayout from Unicode to Roman, but there is no option to change the ID. Reverted to Unicode, no option to change the ID. 

I also think his problems are not connected to the ID, but am puzzled by not being able to choose a new ID. Well, no critical issue, ultimately. 

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[John Brownie]

Several things going on here.

Keyboard ID:
The keyboard ID is assigned to a random number in the appropriate range. A new ID is generated whenever you change the keyboard script, or when you create a copy in one of these ways: choosing Duplicate Keyboard Layout for a selected keyboard layout in a collection, choosing Ukelele Window from the add button in a collection, choosing Open Keyboard Layout in a collection, or dragging a keyboard layout into a collection. There is currently no other way to change the ID.

High Sierra (macOS 10.13):
I have only recently moved to High Sierra myself, so haven't don much in the way of testing. I don't see crashes on saving or quitting, but then I'm mostly using a more recent version that I'm working on. Even so, using the release version doesn't crash on my machine.

Failure of the keyboard layout to work:
A (hopefully unlikely) problem would be that the XML fails to pass the keyboard layout compiler. The simplest way to check this is to send me the keyboard layout, and I can have a look.

John

Sorin Paliga

18 December 2017 at 01:11

I have found that manually changing the ID does not work, in the sense that this option does not exist any more! I did change a test keylayout from Unicode to Roman, but there is no option to change the ID. Reverted to Unicode, no option to change the ID. 

I also think his problems are not connected to the ID, but am puzzled by not being able to choose a new ID. Well, no critical issue, ultimately. 

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Gé van Gasteren

18 December 2017 at 00:33

Frankly, I think your problems are more serious than two layouts having the same ID.

Anyway: When you do the command Keyboard/Set Keyboard Name and Script", selecting a different option for the Script (e.g. Roman) and clicking OK makes Ukelele assign a new unique ID, as far as I know. So doing that, then reverting to Unicode, would do the trick.

This should only be necessary if you duplicated the Ukelele file in the Finder. If you did File/Duplicate inside Ukelele, I’m pretty sure this issue is taken care of already.

I vaguely remember that John put in some more automatic thing a few versions ago, but I forget how that worked.

Hope that helps, who knows!

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Athel Cornish-Bowden

18 December 2017 at 00:24

Thanks, Cattus Thraex. With one exception, all that corresponds with what I've done. The exception is "give it another name and, recommended, another ID (number)." But how do I set the ID number, something I've never worried about in the past. Ukelele seems to assign ID numbers in some mysterious way of its own, and I can't see a mechanism to change them. For example, if I open a file and click on "Info" it tells me that the ID number is -12,851, but where did that number come from? I'm pretty certain it didn't come from me. If I click or double-click on the number nothing happens. Is there another place to access the ID number?

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Athel Cornish-Bowden

17 December 2017 at 21:18

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[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Thanks for your response, John. I've sent the layout to what I think is your email address.

Athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Just to add that John was extremely quick in examining my file and correcting it. I have now installed his version without problems and it works as intended.

The problem arose because I didn't properly understand how to define a dead key, and I floundered about quite a lot while attempting it. Anyway, it appears to have nothing to do with High Sierra, but a lot to do with my incompetence.

On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 12:18:28 PM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

[Gé van Gasteren]

Oops.

What sounded like a serious compatibility problem came down to not having read the manual?

:)

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[John Brownie]

No, there is a bug somewhere. Somehow a dead key state name was wrong, and I don't know how it came about. I will have to dig to try to find the cause.

John

Gé van Gasteren

19 December 2017 at 00:44

Oops.

What sounded like a serious compatibility problem came down to not having read the manual?

:)

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Athel Cornish-Bowden

18 December 2017 at 20:15

Just to add that John was extremely quick in examining my file and correcting it. I have now installed his version without problems and it works as intended.

The problem arose because I didn't properly understand how to define a dead key, and I floundered about quite a lot while attempting it. Anyway, it appears to have nothing to do with High Sierra, but a lot to do with my incompetence.

On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 12:18:28 PM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

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Athel Cornish-Bowden

17 December 2017 at 21:18

I've been a satisfied user of Ukelele for years (I was subscribed to this group under a different email address, but, not having had any problems I got out of the habit of visiting this group). All that ended after upgrading my OS to 10.13.1 and now to 10.13.2 (High Sierra). Initially it worked, with minor problems, primarily that  the circumflex used to be a dead key in my custom keyboard but had become a normal key, so typing ^e produced ^e rather than ê. In previous OS's it had behaved just as it does on a standard French AZERTY keyboard. (I am in France and the keys on my keyboard are labelled as in French). That was irritating, but I could live with it as I could always switch to the standard French keyboard when I wanted to type in French. However, yesterday I decided the time had come fix it, which I did, by editing it in Ukelele. All efforts to install it in the computer have failed; I've moved it manually from the work folder to keyboard layouts; I've used Ukelele to install it, both for all users and for the current user. Nothing worked: Keyboard:Input sources simply refuses to see it when I try to add it. I've restarted the computer several times, but it doesn't work.

What is worse, I can no longer get to the previous custom keyboard with the undead circumflex. So a minor inconvenience has become a major one. I often need to type Spanish names, so alt-n is supposed to give ñ, and alt-a is supposed to give á, etc. I can't do any of that now, though these are not too difficult to type on a French keyboard. However, I also used Ukelele to define longish strings with a single keystroke: for example, alt-& used to give my email address.

I've tried various solutions suggested on the web, but none of these has worked.

Incidentally, Ukelele frequently crashes in OS 10.13. I thought that might be due to using an older version, but even after upgrading to the current version it still happens, for example when saving or even just quitting.

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[Gé van Gasteren]

OK. Then maybe Athel can make a clear statement that he edited the keyboard layout only in Ukelele (i.e. he didn’t edit the XML file with a text editor) ?

Combining what Athel described (about Ukelele crashing) with John’s assessment, one gets the thought that the damage may have happened during an interrupted Write operation.

On 18 December 2017 at 21:41, John Brownie <john_b...@sil.org> wrote:

No, there is a bug somewhere. Somehow a dead key state name was wrong, and I don't know how it came about. I will have to dig to try to find the cause.

John

Gé van Gasteren

19 December 2017 at 00:44

Oops.

What sounded like a serious compatibility problem came down to not having read the manual?

:)

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Athel Cornish-Bowden

18 December 2017 at 20:15

Just to add that John was extremely quick in examining my file and correcting it. I have now installed his version without problems and it works as intended.

The problem arose because I didn't properly understand how to define a dead key, and I floundered about quite a lot while attempting it. Anyway, it appears to have nothing to do with High Sierra, but a lot to do with my incompetence.

On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 12:18:28 PM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

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Athel Cornish-Bowden

17 December 2017 at 21:18

I've been a satisfied user of Ukelele for years (I was subscribed to this group under a different email address, but, not having had any problems I got out of the habit of visiting this group). All that ended after upgrading my OS to 10.13.1 and now to 10.13.2 (High Sierra). Initially it worked, with minor problems, primarily that  the circumflex used to be a dead key in my custom keyboard but had become a normal key, so typing ^e produced ^e rather than ê. In previous OS's it had behaved just as it does on a standard French AZERTY keyboard. (I am in France and the keys on my keyboard are labelled as in French). That was irritating, but I could live with it as I could always switch to the standard French keyboard when I wanted to type in French. However, yesterday I decided the time had come fix it, which I did, by editing it in Ukelele. All efforts to install it in the computer have failed; I've moved it manually from the work folder to keyboard layouts; I've used Ukelele to install it, both for all users and for the current user. Nothing worked: Keyboard:Input sources simply refuses to see it when I try to add it. I've restarted the computer several times, but it doesn't work.

What is worse, I can no longer get to the previous custom keyboard with the undead circumflex. So a minor inconvenience has become a major one. I often need to type Spanish names, so alt-n is supposed to give ñ, and alt-a is supposed to give á, etc. I can't do any of that now, though these are not too difficult to type on a French keyboard. However, I also used Ukelele to define longish strings with a single keystroke: for example, alt-& used to give my email address.

I've tried various solutions suggested on the web, but none of these has worked.

Incidentally, Ukelele frequently crashes in OS 10.13. I thought that might be due to using an older version, but even after upgrading to the current version it still happens, for example when saving or even just quitting.

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[Sam Adamson]

Hi John, I am very new to this this I'm not to sure I've made it correctly (trying to make a keyboard with maths symbols when I press 'option') and I also can't install it on 10.13.2 and when I try install on all users it has an error installing some help thing. Any advice would be much appreciated. 

Thanks 

Sam