Hovering over MenuBar and changing a acute accent key for and grave accent one

[gi do]

Hi dear ,

Try to use Ukelele for the first time with Mac Mini. 

Try to set " Dead key, next state: acute Terminator: U+00B4 ACUTE ACCENT [this is a spacing character] "  for a Fongbe african language in Benin in a used key !

First question : Is it ok, after having saved my Fongbe.keylayout,  that when hovering from FileMenu to EditMenu in the bar, my keyboard state changes from Fongbe.keylayout to  Fongbe.keylayout, - Edited as I had already changed some settings. It goes the other side too from hovering from FormatMenu to EditMenu. Anyway, really it is not an issue ...

The second question is more of a real concern ! 

I tried to open a Finnish keyboard so as to Copy-Paste an acute accent key, but it pastes everything but the drawing of the accent and keeps the former one I choosed to replace Dead key, next state: 2

Terminator: U+0060 GRAVE ACCENT [this is a spacing character] ...

Why does it not accept to change also the form and drawing of the new accent ?

Thank you very much for this very useful tool ... In Africa, with Internet and computers,there is an incredible gap between North and South.

your sincerely Gilbert 

[John Brownie]

On 30/05/2016 0:00, gi do wrote:

First question : Is it ok, after having saved my Fongbe.keylayout,  that when hovering from FileMenu to EditMenu in the bar, my keyboard state changes from Fongbe.keylayout to  Fongbe.keylayout, - Edited as I had already changed some settings. It goes the other side too from hovering from FormatMenu to EditMenu. Anyway, really it is not an issue ...

The change in the title bar is nothing to worry about. The operating system keeps track of changes to the document, and periodically checks to see that the title bar reflects whether there are any changes made since the last manual save or version. Such checks happen when the computer is not working hard on a particular task. So, it can happen more or less at any time, and the hovering in the menu bar is one of those times when the computer is relatively idle, and the update can happen then.

The second question is more of a real concern ! 

I tried to open a Finnish keyboard so as to Copy-Paste an acute accent key, but it pastes everything but the drawing of the accent and keeps the former one I choosed to replace Dead key, next state: 2

Terminator: U+0060 GRAVE ACCENT [this is a spacing character] ...

Why does it not accept to change also the form and drawing of the new accent ?

I'm not entirely clear on your problem, but the root of it is that you cannot copy and paste keys between different keyboard layouts. Copy and paste involves a lot of behind the scenes work, to do with modifier combinations, dead key states and actions, and there's no simple way to do it in a general way. That's why there's a limitation. The menu item for pasting a key should only be enabled when a key has been copied or cut from the current keyboard layout.

John
--
John Brownie, john_b...@sil.org or j.br...@sil.org.pg
Summer Institute of Linguistics, Ukarumpa, Eastern Highlands Province, Papua New Guinea
Mussau-Emira language, Mussau Island, New Ireland Province, Papua New Guinea

[Geke]

Hi Gilbert,

If you know the Unicode code point U+00B4 of the accent you want to assign to a key, it’s probably easiest to:
Double-click on the key and enter everything on the following line:

´

(including the semicolon at the end!)

Only, because you mention dead-key state etc., but I can’t really understand what you write, I’m not quite sure in which situation you are trying to do this, or what you are trying to achieve.

Would it be easier for you to write it in French?

Or maybe you could follow the tutorial (page "Creating a Dead Key.html" included with the Ukelele install) to gain a basic understanding how dead keys work. That page was written for a slightly different version of Ukelele, but the way dead keys work hasn’t changed.

Keep us posted!

[Geke]

Update: in a few private messages, Gilbert and myself made some headway.

He wrote more details about what he wanted to achieve, and I suggested that he not use dead keys, but instead assign the combining accents to keys [ { ] } and type them *after* the base letter.
This has the added advantage that he can type characters with two accents easily, which does happen in Fon language: ɔ̃́
Also, there is no Unicode character showing a combination of ɛ + acute accent, which he would need, so in fact using combining accents is his only option.

Now there’s a little doubt in my mind: Does this way of typing work in all programs?

[Sorin Paliga]

This what my US Academic does with any basic character, to which one can put as many diacritical marks as he/she wishes. One may even combine with other chars from other unicode blocks, e.g. Cyrillic with combined DM, as attached. 

Perhaps one good day I will add the feature of adding any DM to the Cyrillic keyboard, i.e. Cyrillic Linguist, which covers chars used for the non-Slavic languages of the former Soviet Union. 

Yes, the application must also comply with these pre-requisites, but more and more can handle this: Nisus, Mellel (with OT fonts), Pages (the new series, the criticised one, but it can handle CDM’s better), LibreOffice (v. 5.x), the recent versions of Word (I guess, am not sure). Text Edit can also handle this.

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[Gé van Gasteren]

Thank you, Sorin, that’s good info.
So it seems one can safely recommend this method now.

For the record: my MS Word (Microsoft Office 2011 for Mac) does it properly, as far as I have tested it.

[Sorin Paliga]

One must test with the app used, not all could handle this, but more and more can do it now. The older versions of Pages could not handle CDM’s, nor OpenOffice or Word.

On 31 May 2016, at 18:14, Gé van Gasteren <gevang...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you, Sorin, that’s good info.
So it seems one can safely recommend this method now.

For the record: my MS Word (Microsoft Office 2011 for Mac) does it properly, as far as I have tested it.

On 31 May 2016 at 17:10, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:

This what my US Academic does with any basic character, to which one can put as many diacritical marks as he/she wishes. One may even combine with other chars from other unicode blocks, e.g. Cyrillic with combined DM, as attached. 

Perhaps one good day I will add the feature of adding any DM to the Cyrillic keyboard, i.e. Cyrillic Linguist, which covers chars used for the non-Slavic languages of the former Soviet Union. 

Yes, the application must also comply with these pre-requisites, but more and more can handle this: Nisus, Mellel (with OT fonts), Pages (the new series, the criticised one, but it can handle CDM’s better), LibreOffice (v. 5.x), the recent versions of Word (I guess, am not sure). Text Edit can also handle this.

<Screen Shot 2016-05-31 at 18.06.26.png>

On 31 May 2016, at 17:56, Geke <gevang...@gmail.com> wrote:

Update: in a few private messages, Gilbert and myself made some headway.

He wrote more details about what he wanted to achieve, and I suggested that he not use dead keys, but instead assign the combining accents to keys [ { ] } and type them *after* the base letter.
This has the added advantage that he can type characters with two accents easily, which does happen in Fon language: ɔ̃́
Also, there is no Unicode character showing a combination of ɛ + acute accent, which he would need, so in fact using combining accents is his only option.

Now there’s a little doubt in my mind: Does this way of typing work in all programs?

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