Has Com78 National (Ch56) from Rowridge changed?

[Jeff Layman]

A couple of weeks ago I posted that for some reason my Panasonic PVR
could still pick up Com78 on CH56 using the Group A 18-element loft
aerial. Under the same conditions, the Panasonic TV couldn't see Com78.

Yesterday (before retuning to get the 4 April changes), I had a look at
the Com78 signal strength and quality on the PVR's setup menu. It was
interesting that the signal strength bar was showing 6-7, and quality
was 5 or 6 with a yellow bar. The picture and sound were normal on
CBeebies HD and BBC4 HD. I just retuned, and now Com78 is down in
quality. CBeebies is still showing 6 or 7 for strength, but quality is
at 1 in red (sometimes it gets to 2). Strangely, most of the time the
picture and sound are fine.

I still find it amazing that the PVR can deal with a signal with as poor
a quality as this, which the TV can't even see!

--

Jeff

[Scott]

My friend has reception problems (probably fault of the communal
aerial), which she can normally resolve by using the Humax box.

[Brian Gaff]

Its all down to signal to noise I'd imagine. If the noise is high, then the
digital signal is below the level that can be detected. This is the problem
with digital, although noisy, you could still watch snowy analogue tv, but
digital is a whole other thing.
Same goes for dab of course.
Brian

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[Brian Gaff]

In the old days of Analogue one of my jobs was to test tv tuners coming in
from Mullard and Telefunken that our factory used.
The gain and noise over the wide bandwidth was really variable on many of
these tuners, often batch dependent. I often wonder how we are doing on this
front with modern sdr systems now in use. Seems to me that unless there is a
very good preselector, the input can be overloaded by anything anywhere near
the actual frequency, making everything non linear and full of cross mod
problems. I remember playing with onne of these el cheapo devices made in
china. It was pointless using it as a scanner near any large transmitter.

Brian

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[Mark Carver]

On 07/04/2018 11:48, Jeff Layman wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago I posted that for some reason my Panasonic PVR
> could still pick up Com78 on CH56 using the Group A 18-element loft
> aerial. Under the same conditions, the Panasonic TV couldn't see Com78.
>
> Yesterday (before retuning to get the 4 April changes), I had a look at
> the Com78 signal strength and quality on the PVR's setup menu. It was
> interesting that the signal strength bar was showing 6-7, and quality
> was 5 or 6 with a yellow bar. The picture and sound were normal on
> CBeebies HD and BBC4 HD. I just retuned, and now Com78 is down in
> quality. CBeebies is still showing 6 or 7 for strength, but quality is
> at 1 in red (sometimes it gets to 2).  Strangely, most of the time the
> picture and sound are fine.

For clarity, there are two muxes;

COM 7 which is currently still on UHF Ch 31 from Rowridge, but moves to
UHF Ch 55 on May 2nd. COM 7 carries BBC News HD, (and other stuff)

COM 8 which moved on March 21st from Ch 37 to Ch 56. COM 8 carries
BBC 4 HD and Cebeebies HD (and other stuff)

So by May 2nd, both these muxes will be out of range for Group A, and
as a double whammy the transmitting aerial at Rowridge is only half way
up the mast, making them doubly unreceivable.




--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

[Jeff Layman]

Sorry, should have been clearer and just referred to COM 8 on Ch 56. I
was just puzzled why COM 8 on Ch 56 seemed to have dropped from
yesterday's quality to that following today's retune. It will be
interesting to see what happens to COM 7 on the Panny PVR when that
changes to Ch 55 next month.

--

Jeff

[Roger Mills]

On 07/04/2018 11:48, Jeff Layman wrote:

ISTR that Rowridge uses both horizontal and vertical polarisation, with
vertical having a stronger signal. Which way up is your aerial?
--
Cheers,
Roger
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[Mark Carver]

On 07/04/2018 22:19, Roger Mills wrote:

> ISTR that Rowridge uses both horizontal and vertical polarisation, with
> vertical having a stronger signal.

That's true, but COM 7 and 8 are (and always have been) HP only

[Jeff Layman]

Mine is horizontal. Both vertical and horizontal are the same regarding
transmitter power, although Com7 and 8 are only transmitted on
horizontal at much reduced power compared to the other muxes. See
<https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Rowridge>.

--

Jeff

[Mark Carver]

On 07/04/2018 22:39, Jeff Layman wrote:

>> ISTR that Rowridge uses both horizontal and vertical polarisation, with
>> vertical having a stronger signal. Which way up is your aerial?
>
> Mine is horizontal. Both vertical and horizontal are the same regarding
> transmitter power, although Com7 and 8 are only transmitted on
> horizontal at much reduced power compared to the other muxes. See
> <https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Rowridge>.

No No No !!

How many times do I have to say, UK Free is a pile of shite

PSBs from Rowridge are 200kW H and V, COM 4/5/6 are 50kW H, and 200kW V

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/spectrum/information/transmitter-frequency

COM 7 IS 24kW H only, COM 8 18kW H only

[Jeff Layman]

I was misinterpreting what UKFree was stating. To be fair, I think it
says what you have put.

Where is there a simple official table showing the info that UKFree has?
That ofcom page you linked to doesn't have - as far as I can see - a
list of frequencies/polarisation/power for Rowridge. I downloaded the
excel spreadsheet referred to on that page
(<http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/broadcasting/Complete-DTT-frequency-plan.xls>)
and searched for "Rowridge". There are only two rows - 18 and 50 - where
the name appears but there is no info for the main muxes. There is for
Com7 and 8. There is info at
<https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/excel_doc/0017/110186/700-plan-clearance.xlsx>
but I thought hat might be for the near future rather than for the present.

--

Jeff

[Mark Carver]

On 08/04/2018 09:01, Jeff Layman wrote:

> Where is there a simple official table showing the info that UKFree has?
> That ofcom page you linked to doesn't have - as far as I can see - a
> list of frequencies/polarisation/power for Rowridge. I downloaded the
> excel spreadsheet referred to on that page
> (<http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/broadcasting/Complete-DTT-frequency-plan.xls>)
>
> and searched for "Rowridge". There are only two rows - 18 and 50 - where
> the name appears but there is no info for the main muxes.

You're almost there Jeff, go the bottom of the sheet, and click on the
'DSO Muxes' tab :-)

[Jeff Layman]

On 08/04/18 09:51, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 08/04/2018 09:01, Jeff Layman wrote:
>
>> Where is there a simple official table showing the info that UKFree has?
>> That ofcom page you linked to doesn't have - as far as I can see - a
>> list of frequencies/polarisation/power for Rowridge. I downloaded the
>> excel spreadsheet referred to on that page
>> (<http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/broadcasting/Complete-DTT-frequency-plan.xls>)
>>
>> and searched for "Rowridge". There are only two rows - 18 and 50 - where
>> the name appears but there is no info for the main muxes.
>
> You're almost there Jeff, go the bottom of the sheet, and click on the
> 'DSO Muxes' tab :-)

Thanks.

I didn't even notice it was sheet 2 which opened as default! I'll
bookmark that ofcom page for future reference.

--

Jeff