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Steve James in The Times
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Richard Dixon
Jul 31, 2017, 1:11:10 PM7/31/17
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Agreed with pretty much all of this....
Credit where credit is due. The England selectors and management had a very good game here.
They have copped a lot of flak recently, and much of it has been justifiable because there have been some questionable decisions made, but they selected well for the Oval. Getting two out of three debutants right certainly ain’t bad.
Toby Roland-Jones enjoyed the sort of bow of which dreams are made, Tom Westley looked the part at No 3 and while Dawid Malan did not impress immediately, it did at least finally look as if a balanced side had been found.
The wicketkeeper Jonny Bairstow looks like he can pose any opposition the most danger from No 7, where he averages nearly 47 with the bat, and Moeen Ali is more than useful at No 8, where he must now possess the mindset that he is a frontline bowler.
For it is in his mind that Ali has most work to do. He needs to start thinking that he is a bowler. His runs must be a bonus. Part-timers do not finish off Test matches with hat-tricks, for goodness’ sake. He spins the ball as hard and as menacingly as anyone in the game.
Despite his remarkable strike rate, I have previously not taken him seriously enough as a spinner for two simple reasons: firstly because he bowls an awful lot of bad balls for a finger spinner (wrist spinners are allowed much more leeway in this department), and secondly because it has been apparent from the utterances of both the management and Ali himself that he is rather reluctant to accept the responsibility of a senior spinner.
That is why we had the rather ludicrous Liam Dawson experiment. It is time now for Ali to stand up and end all this nonsense. It should be decreed that he bats at No 8 and nowhere else. All other shifting of personnel should happen around him. He must cease being the moving part.
Of course, there will be a problem when Chris Woakes recovers fitness. He must come back into the side as a swing bowler of extremely high quality and No 8 would appear the position best suited to his considerable batting talents.
But maybe it is just that he replaces one of the genuine bowlers (both Stuart Broad and James Anderson could probably do with some careful management during the upcoming West Indies series) and bats at No 9.
Then England can keep playing five specialist batsmen before their genuine all-rounder Ben Stokes at No 6 and Bairstow at No 7.
That then naturally brings about a debate surrounding Malan at No 5, but so be it. It may be that Gary Ballance can slip in there once fit again. He would certainly be more comfortable there than the rarefied air at No 3, and it is well known that captain Joe Root wants him in the side.
Malan received two decent balls here and was on a hiding to nothing in the second innings, but, given the composure he had shown on his international Twenty20 debut earlier this season, it was not a bad pick.
There have been some of them in the last year or so — the likes of Gareth Batty, Ben Duckett and Zafar Ansari last winter immediately spring to mind — but, as I said, this is not a time to be upbraiding the selectors now.
----------------------
ALI’S HAT-TRICK
- Ali is the third bowler to finish a Test by taking a hat-trick, after George Lohmann for England in 1896 and Hugh Trumble for Australia in 1902
- Ali’s hat-trick ball was the third of South Africa’s innings (Ben Stokes and Toby Roland-Jones each took two wickets in two balls)
- South Africa’s innings was the first in Test history to feature four golden ducks (Faf du Plessis, Vernon Philander, Kagiso Rabada and Morne Morkel)
- Moeen Ali is the second Englishman, after Stuart Broad, to have taken a Test hat-trick, scored a Test century and taken a Test ten-wicket haul
----------------------
Roland-Jones was quite marvellous. Only when he was disappearing for 34 in his last three overs today did he appear remotely out of place. Otherwise he simply revelled in the occasion.
England have been keen to expose him to this level of cricket for some time, thinking that, even if this may be heresy to some, his bowling might actually be more useful in Australian conditions than someone like Anderson.
There were mutterings here that he may not be quite as successful Down Under, but why not? He gets bounce, he is constantly at the batsman (more especially the right handers) with his straightish line and he can move the ball laterally even on unresponsive surfaces. What is there not to like? He can start planning to meet friends in Australia this winter.
The word was that Westley might not relish the short ball, but he played it decently. Nobody gets more bounce than Morne Morkel and he coped with that well enough.
The point about all three of Roland-Jones, Westley and Malan is that they have all been monitored over a lengthy period of time. They have served their apprenticeships with the England Lions as well as in county cricket. They were not plucked from nowhere.
The step up to Test cricket is the biggest and the most difficult to overcome. It is also the one that is most difficult to predict in terms of a player’s reaction. It is not all about technique.
The selectors like Keaton Jennings as much for his character as any confidence in the pureness of his batting. They backed that last winter and were instantly rewarded with a century. His second-innings 48 here was another small reward of sorts against the swirl of discontent (with plenty of swirling admittedly coming from this correspondent).
Sometimes it just comes down to gut feeling, maybe simple opinion. Everyone likes to be the selector in the pub, but when in the meeting room for real it is a very different matter.
This felt different from the Lord’s victory. England felt stronger and better balanced. And better selected. At last.
Credit where credit is due. The England selectors and management had a very good game here.
They have copped a lot of flak recently, and much of it has been justifiable because there have been some questionable decisions made, but they selected well for the Oval. Getting two out of three debutants right certainly ain’t bad.
Toby Roland-Jones enjoyed the sort of bow of which dreams are made, Tom Westley looked the part at No 3 and while Dawid Malan did not impress immediately, it did at least finally look as if a balanced side had been found.
The wicketkeeper Jonny Bairstow looks like he can pose any opposition the most danger from No 7, where he averages nearly 47 with the bat, and Moeen Ali is more than useful at No 8, where he must now possess the mindset that he is a frontline bowler.
For it is in his mind that Ali has most work to do. He needs to start thinking that he is a bowler. His runs must be a bonus. Part-timers do not finish off Test matches with hat-tricks, for goodness’ sake. He spins the ball as hard and as menacingly as anyone in the game.
Despite his remarkable strike rate, I have previously not taken him seriously enough as a spinner for two simple reasons: firstly because he bowls an awful lot of bad balls for a finger spinner (wrist spinners are allowed much more leeway in this department), and secondly because it has been apparent from the utterances of both the management and Ali himself that he is rather reluctant to accept the responsibility of a senior spinner.
That is why we had the rather ludicrous Liam Dawson experiment. It is time now for Ali to stand up and end all this nonsense. It should be decreed that he bats at No 8 and nowhere else. All other shifting of personnel should happen around him. He must cease being the moving part.
Of course, there will be a problem when Chris Woakes recovers fitness. He must come back into the side as a swing bowler of extremely high quality and No 8 would appear the position best suited to his considerable batting talents.
But maybe it is just that he replaces one of the genuine bowlers (both Stuart Broad and James Anderson could probably do with some careful management during the upcoming West Indies series) and bats at No 9.
Then England can keep playing five specialist batsmen before their genuine all-rounder Ben Stokes at No 6 and Bairstow at No 7.
That then naturally brings about a debate surrounding Malan at No 5, but so be it. It may be that Gary Ballance can slip in there once fit again. He would certainly be more comfortable there than the rarefied air at No 3, and it is well known that captain Joe Root wants him in the side.
Malan received two decent balls here and was on a hiding to nothing in the second innings, but, given the composure he had shown on his international Twenty20 debut earlier this season, it was not a bad pick.
There have been some of them in the last year or so — the likes of Gareth Batty, Ben Duckett and Zafar Ansari last winter immediately spring to mind — but, as I said, this is not a time to be upbraiding the selectors now.
----------------------
ALI’S HAT-TRICK
- Ali is the third bowler to finish a Test by taking a hat-trick, after George Lohmann for England in 1896 and Hugh Trumble for Australia in 1902
- Ali’s hat-trick ball was the third of South Africa’s innings (Ben Stokes and Toby Roland-Jones each took two wickets in two balls)
- South Africa’s innings was the first in Test history to feature four golden ducks (Faf du Plessis, Vernon Philander, Kagiso Rabada and Morne Morkel)
- Moeen Ali is the second Englishman, after Stuart Broad, to have taken a Test hat-trick, scored a Test century and taken a Test ten-wicket haul
----------------------
Roland-Jones was quite marvellous. Only when he was disappearing for 34 in his last three overs today did he appear remotely out of place. Otherwise he simply revelled in the occasion.
England have been keen to expose him to this level of cricket for some time, thinking that, even if this may be heresy to some, his bowling might actually be more useful in Australian conditions than someone like Anderson.
There were mutterings here that he may not be quite as successful Down Under, but why not? He gets bounce, he is constantly at the batsman (more especially the right handers) with his straightish line and he can move the ball laterally even on unresponsive surfaces. What is there not to like? He can start planning to meet friends in Australia this winter.
The word was that Westley might not relish the short ball, but he played it decently. Nobody gets more bounce than Morne Morkel and he coped with that well enough.
The point about all three of Roland-Jones, Westley and Malan is that they have all been monitored over a lengthy period of time. They have served their apprenticeships with the England Lions as well as in county cricket. They were not plucked from nowhere.
The step up to Test cricket is the biggest and the most difficult to overcome. It is also the one that is most difficult to predict in terms of a player’s reaction. It is not all about technique.
The selectors like Keaton Jennings as much for his character as any confidence in the pureness of his batting. They backed that last winter and were instantly rewarded with a century. His second-innings 48 here was another small reward of sorts against the swirl of discontent (with plenty of swirling admittedly coming from this correspondent).
Sometimes it just comes down to gut feeling, maybe simple opinion. Everyone likes to be the selector in the pub, but when in the meeting room for real it is a very different matter.
This felt different from the Lord’s victory. England felt stronger and better balanced. And better selected. At last.
Offramp
Jul 31, 2017, 1:42:32 PM7/31/17
to
Yes; all very good. The snippet about the four golden ducks being a record is a good one.
Dave Cornwell
Jul 31, 2017, 3:02:30 PM7/31/17
to
I don't entirely agree with some of it although most. Firstly I'm pretty
sure the selectors would have played Ballance again if he hadn't broken
his finger. That was the background noise. Secondly whilst agreeing
about Ali's bowling I think he is treating his batting like he doesn't
want his bowling treated. Ali is much better than your average spinner
number 8 batsman. Jennings is now surplus to requirements.
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Richard Dixon
Jul 31, 2017, 4:04:48 PM7/31/17
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On Monday, 31 July 2017 20:02:30 UTC+1, Dave Cornwell wrote:
> I don't entirely agree with some of it although most. Firstly I'm pretty
> sure the selectors would have played Ballance again if he hadn't broken
> his finger. That was the background noise. Secondly whilst agreeing
> about Ali's bowling I think he is treating his batting like he doesn't
> want his bowling treated. Ali is much better than your average spinner
> number 8 batsman. Jennings is now surplus to requirements.
However, Bayliss seems keen to reintroduce Dawson at Old Trafford - or at least George Dobell seems to think he will. Have come to the conclusion that Dawson must have "Kompromat" of the ECB hierarchy somewhere...
> I don't entirely agree with some of it although most. Firstly I'm pretty
> sure the selectors would have played Ballance again if he hadn't broken
> his finger. That was the background noise. Secondly whilst agreeing
> about Ali's bowling I think he is treating his batting like he doesn't
> want his bowling treated. Ali is much better than your average spinner
> number 8 batsman. Jennings is now surplus to requirements.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/20210665
Richard
Dave Cornwell
Jul 31, 2017, 4:35:02 PM7/31/17
to
wet and the groundsman is struggling not to prepare a "green" wicket.
Richard Dixon
Aug 2, 2017, 5:54:32 PM8/2/17
to
On Monday, 31 July 2017 21:35:02 UTC+1, Dave Cornwell wrote:
> That would be crazy as they were saying the conditions have been very
> wet and the groundsman is struggling not to prepare a "green" wicket.
I'm within 20 miles of the ground in the next week (sadly not attending) and can concur with this. They've wondered where the summer's gone so fingers crossed for a bit of cloud and it twanging round corners. But woe betide a fully-fit Philander on the same sort of pitch...
> That would be crazy as they were saying the conditions have been very
> wet and the groundsman is struggling not to prepare a "green" wicket.
Richard
hamis...@gmail.com
Aug 2, 2017, 7:29:56 PM8/2/17
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