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Gortex vs Triple Point Ceramic ?

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Paul Rose

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Mar 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/7/00
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Hi All

I'm looking to be purchasing a decent jacket over the next couple of months
and have been reading up on the specs etc. It would be used for mainly
summer fell/mountain walking/backpacking. I thought I'd decided on a Gortex
jacket but after reading a couple of mails on this ng I may be about to
change my mind.

I was of the opinion that Gortex was the "bees knees", "top of the range"
etc but it may seem that some prefer Triple Point Ceramic over Gortex. I've
read of Gortex jackets failing after 3 or 4 years where as Triple Point are
still going strong after 8 or 9 years! Obviously it depends a lot on how the
jacket is looked after but I would be interested in the opinions of others.

What would you recommend? Gortex or Triple Point Ceramic?

--
All the best, Paul R
in Middlesbrough, England, UK.

Researching ROSE in Cleveland, Durham and Suffolk.

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rebdave

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Mar 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/7/00
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I think the debate focuses on the construction. Goretex is a layer which often is broken down on the shoulders wheer ruck sacks rub.

Triple point ceramic is an integral part of the fabric and should take wear better.

i prefer ceramic.


Anyone else?

Dave

Tom Hawkins

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Mar 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/8/00
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both are going to wear out quickly - no more than about 4 years but you do
get better value for money with Lowe

Alan Ashton

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Mar 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/8/00
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Tom Hawkins wrote:
>
> both are going to wear out quickly - no more than about 4 years but you do
> get better value for money with Lowe

My Mountain Range gore-tex jacket is now over eight years old and is
still waterproof, having seen extensive use. Although I now have a
Berghaus jacket which I take back-packing in Scotland....just in case
the other packs in suddenly.
Alan

Steve Wilcox

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Mar 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/8/00
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Paul Rose <pa...@rose159.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8a3m7s$jvn$2...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...

> What would you recommend? Gortex or Triple Point Ceramic?

TPC is vastly superior to Goretex - Better breatheability, longer lasting
and much cooler to be seen in ! Lowe Alpine Rule ! ! ! !

Trevor Dennis

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Mar 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/8/00
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Paul Rose, writes

>etc but it may seem that some prefer Triple Point Ceramic over Gortex.

The LA TPC shell apparently has an 'over the top'
hood design now - according to Trail magazine.
Their testers loved the hood when up, but its
larger than average peak, and stiffer than average
wire was literally a pain in the neck when down.

I'm still inclined to go for the LA, but shall be
looking very closely at the hood design.

--
Trevor Dennis

ze...@cix.compulink.co.uk

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Mar 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/9/00
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> Lowe Alpine Rule ! ! ! !
not if the lack of quality control I have found on my last 3 base layers
is any indication

Mark

Peter Clinch

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Mar 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/9/00
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Tom Hawkins wrote:
>
> both are going to wear out quickly - no more than about 4 years

Oh, that's odd, my Lowe TPC jacket is over 4 years old and has no
obvious signs of wear at all. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?
I'm also familiar with plenty of goretex jackets well over 4 years old
and going strong, so the above appears to be a bit on the sweeping side.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch

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Mar 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/9/00
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Paul Rose wrote:

> What would you recommend? Gortex or Triple Point Ceramic?

I would recommend you don't get hung up on the material. Rather, try on
alternatives and select according to fit, comfort, cost and features.

I use a TPC jacket not because I'm a firm believer in the miracle
properties of TPC, but because it had the fit I wanted, the pockets were
where I wanted them and the size I wanted them, the hood fitted my
requirements, the seams were in the right places to minimise wear etc.
There were plenty of TPC jackets in the range that *didn't* fit those
requirements, so they were rejected.

Fit, IMHO, is the most important factor. If it turns out that Lowe make
jackets the wrong shape for you then don't buy one, whatever the fabric
is. Same goes for anything else. And don't rule out Sympatex (very
popular in continental Europe, so used by folk like vauDe who make very
nice stuff), H2No (Patagonia) and Paramo.

Truth seems to be that there isn't any definite clear "best". Mostly
it's marketing one way or the other, AFAICT.

Tom Hawkins

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Mar 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/9/00
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Garments that are made until about 6-8 years ago were made to a different
philosophy to current garments. Products that last 8-10 years make no money
for manufacturers therefore current models may not last as long. Current
money seems to go to design and looks and not durability and our society
seems to accept this

--
____________________________________
Vertical Reality
Rock climbing, mountaineering, guided walks
http://www.bigfoot.com/~verical_reality

Graeme Cogger

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Mar 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/9/00
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On the subject of Lowe stuff, I recently bought one of their Alpine Pro
jackets, and the zip started sticking, then broke within a few weeks (no
rough use). I got a replacement, and the zip is sticking already.

A shame, since I've found their kit to be pretty OK up to now.

Graeme


Peter Clinch wrote:
>
> Tom Hawkins wrote:
> >
> > both are going to wear out quickly - no more than about 4 years
>
> Oh, that's odd, my Lowe TPC jacket is over 4 years old and has no
> obvious signs of wear at all. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?
> I'm also familiar with plenty of goretex jackets well over 4 years old
> and going strong, so the above appears to be a bit on the sweeping side.
>

Rob

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Mar 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/10/00
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In article <EDrR$DAjar...@tdennis.demon.co.uk>,
Trevor Dennis <tre...@tdennis.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Paul Rose, writes

> The LA TPC shell apparently has an 'over the top'
> hood design now - according to Trail magazine.
> Their testers loved the hood when up, but its
> larger than average peak, and stiffer than average
> wire was literally a pain in the neck when down.

I find the hood is okay on my Alpine Pro, although I can see their
point. I have found that if you fold the peak into the body of the
hood when it is not in use it seems to make the whole thing less of a
problem.

I am still well pleased with the TPC shell, seems to breath pretty well
(I have been fell running in it and there was no condensation build up
(okay so I had the pitzips open!), and it is definatly waterproof.

As has already been said though, I reckon you are best buying the
jacket that is designed best for you and not worry too much about which
material the manufacturers use. I found that Lowe stuff was cut
generously so is great for people of a larger stature! Marmot is also
good in this respect.

Rob


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Gordon Harris

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Mar 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/10/00
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In article <38C8350B...@freedom2surf.co.uk>, Graeme Cogger
<graeme...@freedom2surf.co.uk> writes

>On the subject of Lowe stuff, I recently bought one of their Alpine Pro
>jackets, and the zip started sticking, then broke within a few weeks (no
>rough use). I got a replacement, and the zip is sticking already.
>
>A shame, since I've found their kit to be pretty OK up to now.
>
Are they Goretex? The only problem I've had with zips is loose folds
of material adjacent to the zip getting trapped by the slider especially
on lightweight waterproof trousers. 8-(

One of the trade-offs of Goretex's stiffness seems to be less likely-
hood of trapping material in the zip. I usually put a dab of
butter[1] on zips that are stiff running.

[1] Poly-unsat marg works, too.
--
Gordon


s...@sunking.screaming.net

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Mar 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/10/00
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I got a karrimor goretex jacket and it is ok. The thing about goretex clothing
is that you can be sure that
it a designed and made to a set standard, ( allegedly ) Gore lease all the
seaming machines and only sell
fabric to certain people... Gore tex is the probably the original breathable
fabric.. so they should have more experience.
Its deffiniatly seems more breathable than my 'isotex' or 'scantex' jackets any
way .. oh and it doesnt leak either..


Graeme Cogger

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Mar 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/12/00
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The jacket is Lowe's Triplepoint. The problem with the zips is just poor
quality - the ends do not match up properly when you try to zip it up.
Once it's attached, it runs fine.

Graeme Cogger

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Mar 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/12/00
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I've found that I get a condenstion build-up on mine with just a brisk
walk to the pub! However, on a decent walk on a wet day, I found I was
still dry underneath at the end of it. Odd - although I was wearing one
of the excellent Paramo fleece base layers.

Graeme

Rob wrote:
>
<snip>


>
> I am still well pleased with the TPC shell, seems to breath pretty well
> (I have been fell running in it and there was no condensation build up
> (okay so I had the pitzips open!), and it is definatly waterproof.
>

> Rob

Gordon Harris

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Mar 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/12/00
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In article <38CBE1ED...@freedom2surf.co.uk>, Graeme Cogger
<graeme...@freedom2surf.co.uk> writes

>The jacket is Lowe's Triplepoint. The problem with the zips is just poor
>quality - the ends do not match up properly when you try to zip it up.
>Once it's attached, it runs fine.
>
I had a similar problem with a leather coat, which isn't so old, and had
terrible trouble getting the zip engaged and running it up.
I pooh-poohed my lady friend's suggestion that a few stitches had given
way which held the zip into the material as being the cause, until she
stitched it up for me (less than 1 inch had come loose), and I had to
concede it solved the problem by bringing the zip into alignment.
Don't you hate it when *that* happens?
Another long shot for you to check.
--
Gordon


Graeme Cogger

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Mar 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/12/00
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Sorry - it's not that either!

As an aside - when I took the first coat back for a replacement, the guy
in the shop admitted he had broken one of the zips on these coats too!

Graeme

Peter Clinch

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Mar 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/13/00
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s...@sunking.screaming.net wrote:
>
> I got a karrimor goretex jacket and it is ok. The thing about goretex clothing
> is that you can be sure that it a designed and made to a set standard

They are indeed very careful about what their name gets put on, but:

- that doesn't mean any given garment is right for you or your intended
use
- manufacturers like Lowe have, if anything, even more control as
they're the only game in town for their particular fabric.

> fabric to certain people... Gore tex is the probably the original breathable
> fabric.. so they should have more experience.

A fair comment perhaps about 15 years ago, but the principles are well
understood now, so Gore are playing against other large fabric
technology multinationals (the likes of Lowe, ME, Patagonia etc. aren't
where the R&D is done on their fabrics) on a reasonably level playing
field. Sympatex has had broadly comparable performance as a laminate
for over a decade now, and since Triple Point became TP Ceramic that's
moved coating technologies up to a similar mark. Differences in DWR
outer coatings are probably more of a significant difference now than
the underlying barrier layer, though again I still feel that fit and
form are more significant than material.

> Its deffiniatly seems more breathable than my 'isotex' or 'scantex' jackets any
> way .. oh and it doesnt leak either..

But these are aimed at a lower niche in the market, and cost less on the
whole, so not necessarily the greatest of comparisons.

Paul Rose

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Mar 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/14/00
to


Paul Rose <pa...@rose159.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8a3m7s$jvn$2...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...

> Hi All
>
> I'm looking to be purchasing a decent jacket over the next couple of
months
> and have been reading up on the specs etc. It would be used for mainly
> summer fell/mountain walking/backpacking. I thought I'd decided on a
Gortex
> jacket but after reading a couple of mails on this ng I may be about to
> change my mind.
>
> I was of the opinion that Gortex was the "bees knees", "top of the range"

> etc but it may seem that some prefer Triple Point Ceramic over Gortex.

I've
> read of Gortex jackets failing after 3 or 4 years where as Triple Point
are
> still going strong after 8 or 9 years! Obviously it depends a lot on how
the
> jacket is looked after but I would be interested in the opinions of
others.
>

> What would you recommend? Gortex or Triple Point Ceramic?


Hi All

Just like to thank everyone who has replied to my original message. Lots of
excellent advice which will help me decide when the time comes to part with
my hard earned dosh :o)

Probably going towards buying the TPC but, as certain people have pointed
out, this will ultimately depend on how the jacket fits, if it has the right
number of pockets etc. etc.

Once again, thanks everyone for all your valuable advice :o)

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