More bikers die in London

[The Older Gentleman]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35706703

Hm

Can't see how allowing motorcycles to use cycle lanes could contribute
to the rise.


--
Ninja H2 Honda CB400 Four CD200 Suzuki TS250ERRx2 BMW R60/6
Kawasaki KH100 660 Tenere Street Triple Yamaha V75
More garages needed....
neil underscore murray at fastmail dot fm

[A.Lee]

The Older Gentleman wrote:

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35706703
>
> Hm
>
> Can't see how allowing motorcycles to use cycle lanes could contribute
> to the rise.

After seeing the antics of scooter riders a number of times last year, I
think they must be the largest rise in numbers.

--
Alan
To reply by mail, change '+' to 'plus'

[zymur...@googlemail.com]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 3:47:41 PM UTC, TOG@Toil wrote:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35706703
>
> Hm
>
> Can't see how allowing motorcycles to use cycle lanes could contribute
> to the rise.

They seem to be stopping accidents by stopping and detaining over 5000 riders in 5 months. Wonder how many cars they stopped over the same period ?

Paul.

[Ian Field]

"The Older Gentleman" <totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1mjhqi1.wv8zkjxcbkwmN%totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk...

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35706703
>
> Hm
>
> Can't see how allowing motorcycles to use cycle lanes could contribute
> to the rise.

Everyone in London drives/rides/cycles/pedestrians like a fuckwit.

Public transport is safer - unless terrorists blow your bus up.

Last time I rode in London, some fuckwit just wombled nonchalantly off the
pavement straight in front of me.

[Speedgazebo MOTP #1]

I did wonder the same thing.

--
Speedgazebo

[cat]

On 02/03/16 15:47, The Older Gentleman wrote:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35706703
>
> Hm
>
> Can't see how allowing motorcycles to use cycle lanes could contribute
> to the rise.
>
>

it's all peds in the photo..

[Thomas]

On Wed, 02 Mar 2016 07:47:38 -0800, The Older Gentleman
<totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35706703
>
> Hm

Some context would be helpful. The population, number of motorcyclists,
number of car drivers, number of car driver deaths, etc.

[Mike Fleming]

In article <1mjhqi1.wv8zkjxcbkwmN%totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk>,

totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) writes:

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35706703
>
> Hm
>
> Can't see how allowing motorcycles to use cycle lanes could contribute
> to the rise.

Is there a sugggestion anywhere in the article that it might? I can't
see one.

--
Mike (DF) Fleming DoD #4446 OT #3 UKMC #9 GAGARPHOF #6 JKLO #004
JHLO #1 KotWP7 SST #69 BOF #024 BFG ITG#3
Triumph Trident 900 x2 Daytona 900 T595 Tiger 900 Tiger 1050 Trophy 1200
Meriden Triumph Trident T150V Bonnie T140V Cub T20 Terrier T15 Tigress

[The Older Gentleman]

Mike Fleming <{mike}@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <1mjhqi1.wv8zkjxcbkwmN%totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk>,
> totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) writes:
>
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35706703
> >
> > Hm
> >
> > Can't see how allowing motorcycles to use cycle lanes could contribute
> > to the rise.
>
> Is there a sugggestion anywhere in the article that it might? I can't
> see one.

Temnuous but there:-

"The report found the inconsistency over access to bus lanes causes
"unnecessary confusion" as TfL allows motorcyclists to ride in bus lanes
on the roads it manages, while many boroughs do not.

It also asked TfL to monitor the impact of dedicated Cycle Superhighways
on the road space shared by other traffic."

[ogden]

The Older Gentleman wrote:
>
> Mike Fleming <{mike}@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <1mjhqi1.wv8zkjxcbkwmN%totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk>,
> > totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) writes:
> >
> > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35706703
> > >
> > > Hm
> > >
> > > Can't see how allowing motorcycles to use cycle lanes could contribute
> > > to the rise.
> >
> > Is there a sugggestion anywhere in the article that it might? I can't
> > see one.
>
> Temnuous but there:-
>
> "The report found the inconsistency over access to bus lanes causes
> "unnecessary confusion" as TfL allows motorcyclists to ride in bus lanes
> on the roads it manages, while many boroughs do not.

That's bus lanes, not cycle lanes. It's daft that councils haven't been
compelled to open up their bus lanes as well. Fortunately the vast
majority of my commute is on red routes.

> It also asked TfL to monitor the impact of dedicated Cycle Superhighways
> on the road space shared by other traffic."

That's not about letting bikes in cycle lanes either. It's about space
being reserved specifically for cycles, with the width of lanes for
other traffic being reduced as a result.

A prime example is the route from Wandsworth to Vauxhall via Nine Elms.
Before they brought in the cycle superhighways, most of it had two lanes
wide enough for a bike to squeeze through the middle. Then they added
cycle lanes with a solid edge, which squeezed the other lanes together.
The gap down the middle was effectively moved to the edge and reserved
solely for cycles. That meant either desperate lunges for smaller gaps,
or filtering (where possible) down the outside, against oncoming
traffic. It doesn't take a genius to figure out where that's going to
end up, and the report reflects that.

Fortunately they then opened up the bus lanes, so I started using the A3
instead. The Nine Elms route is still pretty much unusable.

--
ogden

[Hog]

They don't when they see a big blue van coming towards them.

[Hog]

Hmm yup.
A bit of this has happened on the way out of Dublin, so I just use that
short stretch of cycle path. Fuckem.

They are constructing stretches of Cycle Superhighway in Leeds FFS, for the
dozen or so people that will use them through the winter.
http://leedscyclingcampaign.co.uk/vision
Some people would be best used as winter fuel

[Eiron]

On 03/03/2016 11:54, Hog wrote:

> Ian Field wrote:


>> Everyone in London drives/rides/cycles/pedestrians like a fuckwit.
>>
>> Public transport is safer - unless terrorists blow your bus up.
>>
>> Last time I rode in London, some fuckwit just wombled nonchalantly
>> off the pavement straight in front of me.
>
> They don't when they see a big blue van coming towards them.

London rules.
It's illegal to look to left or right or walk fast when crossing a road.
As a driver or rider, you get used to it.

--
Eiron.

[cat]

On 03/03/16 12:41, Eiron wrote:

> London rules.
> It's illegal to look to left or right or walk fast when crossing a road.
> As a driver or rider, you get used to it.

It's certainly how I got used to rolling stoppies.
A clear buslane and stationary car lanes is an invitation to pedestrians
to wander around aimlessly fearing nothing :/

[ogden]

They've removed entire lanes from some major roads in London to create
new segregated cycle routes now.

--
ogden

[Thomas]

On Thu, 03 Mar 2016 06:04:05 -0800, ogden <og...@pre.org> wrote:

>
> They've removed entire lanes from some major roads in London to create
> new segregated cycle routes now.

Same here. They seem to have forgotten why the motor vehicle was invented.

[Hog]

ogden wrote:

> Hog wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Fortunately they then opened up the bus lanes, so I started using
>>> the A3 instead. The Nine Elms route is still pretty much unusable.
>>
>> Hmm yup.
>> A bit of this has happened on the way out of Dublin, so I just use
>> that short stretch of cycle path. Fuckem.
>>
>> They are constructing stretches of Cycle Superhighway in Leeds FFS,
>> for the dozen or so people that will use them through the winter.
>> http://leedscyclingcampaign.co.uk/vision
>> Some people would be best used as winter fuel
>
> They've removed entire lanes from some major roads in London to create
> new segregated cycle routes now.

Hmm I *may* have inadvertently used one or more London cycle paths on a
motorbike as the only way to get around traffic. Notably, there were no
cycles. I expect you wouldn't want to do it with a UK and traceable plate
TBF.

[Hog]

<cough>
<touches nose>
there may be at least two English pedestrians that have regretted their
transgressions in the past two years

In Dublin it's the unlit cyclists shooting red lights at night. FFS you
wouldn't waste time to go back and pick up such and out and out criminal

[ogden]

Hog wrote:

>
> ogden wrote:
> > They've removed entire lanes from some major roads in London to
create
> > new segregated cycle routes now.
>
> Hmm I *may* have inadvertently used one or more London cycle paths on a
> motorbike as the only way to get around traffic. Notably, there were no
> cycles. I expect you wouldn't want to do it with a UK and traceable plate
> TBF.

I was nicked for contravening a cycle lane on my gixer thou, the day I
bought it.

Needs must.

--
ogden

[Ian Field]

"Hog" <sm91...@CHIPShotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:nb98ri$ce3$1...@dont-email.me...

ITYMF: Some of them do.

On a brighter note - to some extent its self limiting (some of them only do
it once).

[Ian Field]

"cat" <w...@where.com> wrote in message news:nb9ctk$sa0$1...@dont-email.me...

Its the prices in London - makes everyone suicidal.

[Mike Fleming]

In article <1mjiywz.1gbwhe5112tzqqN%totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk>,

totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) writes:

> Mike Fleming <{mike}@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <1mjhqi1.wv8zkjxcbkwmN%totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk>,
> > totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) writes:
> >
> > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35706703
> > >
> > > Hm
> > >
> > > Can't see how allowing motorcycles to use cycle lanes could contribute
> > > to the rise.
> >
> > Is there a sugggestion anywhere in the article that it might? I can't
> > see one.
>
> Temnuous but there:-
>
> "The report found the inconsistency over access to bus lanes causes
> "unnecessary confusion" as TfL allows motorcyclists to ride in bus lanes
> on the roads it manages, while many boroughs do not.
>
> It also asked TfL to monitor the impact of dedicated Cycle Superhighways
> on the road space shared by other traffic."

Isn't that a suggestion that inconsistent provision of bus lane use,
rather than cycle lanes, could be a contributory factor?

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/rules-of-red-routes/bus-lanes/motorcycles-in-bus-lanes

seems quite positive about access to bus lanes and safety. And I
assume motorcyclists don't have access to the Cycle Superhighways.

I can sort of see the logic, that drivers might not be expecting
something with a significantly smaller frontal area than a bus to be
in a bus lane, but presumably they're not actually blind and should be
capable of responding to such visual stimuli.

[ogden]

Mike Fleming <{mike}@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
> I
> assume motorcyclists don't have access to the Cycle Superhighways.

It depends. Some of them are combined with bus lanes, others are
fully segregated. There'll be a gradual migration from the former to
the latter. A lot of roadworks going on at the moment, and, much to
my surprise, neither Oval nor Elephant & Castle are nearly as bad as
I feared they'd be. Not now the bulk of the work is done, anyway.

Frankly, if it gets the suicidal cunts out of my way, I'm all for
whatever it takes to give cyclists their own roads.

--
ogden

[Salad Dodger]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2016 10:27:55 -0000, ogden <og...@pre.org> wrote:

>The Older Gentleman wrote:

>

>> It also asked TfL to monitor the impact of dedicated Cycle Superhighways
>> on the road space shared by other traffic."
>
>That's not about letting bikes in cycle lanes either. It's about space
>being reserved specifically for cycles, with the width of lanes for
>other traffic being reduced as a result.
>
>A prime example is the route from Wandsworth to Vauxhall via Nine Elms.

The shambles that was Upper/Lower Thames St is also a good example.
--
Salad Dodger
1690 FLHTK; CB1300SA8
Previously ...
GL1800A6; GL1500SEV; CBR1100XXX; CBR1000FL;
CBX1000Z; GPz750R; Z750E1; Z650C2; KH500A8;
KH250B3;TS250c;TS185c.

[ogden]

Salad Dodger wrote:
>
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2016 10:27:55 -0000, ogden <og...@pre.org> wrote:
>
> >The Older Gentleman wrote:
>
> >
> >> It also asked TfL to monitor the impact of dedicated Cycle Superhighways
> >> on the road space shared by other traffic."
> >
> >That's not about letting bikes in cycle lanes either. It's about space
> >being reserved specifically for cycles, with the width of lanes for
> >other traffic being reduced as a result.
> >
> >A prime example is the route from Wandsworth to Vauxhall via Nine Elms.
>
> The shambles that was Upper/Lower Thames St is also a good example.

That's the one I was thinking of when I mentioned lanes being completely
removed.

--
ogden

[cat]

fair point, how must it feel to be dependent on walking for transport!

[Ian Field]

"cat" <w...@where.com> wrote in message news:nba7ct$474$1...@dont-email.me...

I used to walk to the pub and back - sometimes one in the next town.

[cat]

On 03/03/16 20:58, Ian Field wrote:

>>>> It's certainly how I got used to rolling stoppies.
>>>> A clear buslane and stationary car lanes is an invitation to
>>>> pedestrians
>>>> to wander around aimlessly fearing nothing :/
>>>
>>> Its the prices in London - makes everyone suicidal.
>>
>> fair point, how must it feel to be dependent on walking for transport!
>
> I used to walk to the pub and back - sometimes one in the next town.

I generally walk to work and back and feel worryingly more healthy for
doing so :/

[The Older Gentleman]

ogden <og...@pre.org> wrote:

> They've removed entire lanes from some major roads in London to create
> new segregated cycle routes now.

Yes, especially around the Elephant & Castle and the approaches to
Blackfriars Bridge.

The traffic lights now have a second set, mounted just in front of the
'regular' lights, which go green about five seconds before the 'car'
lights go green, to let the suicyclists get away first.

That's a really *sensible* thing to do. Except the silly cunts go
through all red lights regardless.

[Salad Dodger]

I have the joy of walking along it every evening to Tower Gateway.
It's a close run thing between the traffic and me for the journey from
monument to Tower Hill.

[ogden]

UKRM's Man Back in Israel wrote:

>
> ogden <og...@pre.org> wrote:
>
> > Frankly, if it gets the suicidal cunts out of my way
>

> <http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/battersea-crash-motorcyclist-dies-in-battersea-park-road-accident-a3193126.html>

That's the Nine Elms route I was referring to. It's a lot more dangerous
for motorcycles than it was before they brought in the cycle lanes,
hence why I avoid it.

--
ogden

[Pipl]

Whan a man is tired of London...

--

-Pip

[Pipl]

On Wed, 02 Mar 2016 11:14:18 -0800, Thomas <xs...@xmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Mar 2016 07:47:38 -0800, The Older Gentleman
><totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35706703
>>
>> Hm
>
>Some context would be helpful. The population, number of motorcyclists,
>number of car drivers, number of car driver deaths, etc.

Sorry? You want context in a news report? How quaint.

--

-Pip

[Boots]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2016 14:57:54 -0000 in uk.rec.motorcycles, Hog says:

>> They've removed entire lanes from some major roads in London to create
>> new segregated cycle routes now.
>
>Hmm I *may* have inadvertently used one or more London cycle paths on a
>motorbike as the only way to get around traffic. Notably, there were no
>cycles. I expect you wouldn't want to do it with a UK and traceable plate
>TBF.

Probably not, one of my colleagues over the course of a weekend managed
four bus lane contraventions which he only found about when he got his
post.

--
Ian
"Information is not knowledge" - Albert Einstein

[Eiron]

At least he now knows the difference between a Boris bus lane
and a local council one, and has four photos of the back of his bike.

--
Eiron.

[Boots]

there is that. It's his fault he's from Barcelona[1]

[1] Actually somewhere rural Spain but that doesn't fit the line.

--
Ian
"I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong" - Bertrand Russell

[zymur...@googlemail.com]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 3:47:41 PM UTC, TOG@Toil wrote:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35706703
>
> Hm
>
> Can't see how allowing motorcycles to use cycle lanes could contribute
> to the rise.

2 of my crashes were in London whilst commuting, so I can confirm it's a jolly dangerous place to ride in (!)

Paul.

[ts]

<zymur...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> 2 of my crashes were in London whilst commuting,
> so I can confirm it's a jolly dangerous place to ride in (!)

Not trying to be a smart-ass claiming London is safe for two-wheeled
transport, but there is a statistical diference between e.g. "2", "All"
and "Most". :-)

--
ts // scrap vehicle to send e-mail
75/5, 80/7, K-RS 6v

[Ian Field]

"ts" <exbn...@deaVOLVO.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:1mjt5wl.u7v0q31ih12g6N%exbn...@deaVOLVO.spamcon.org...

> <zymur...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> 2 of my crashes were in London whilst commuting,
>> so I can confirm it's a jolly dangerous place to ride in (!)
>
> Not trying to be a smart-ass claiming London is safe for two-wheeled
> transport, but there is a statistical diference between e.g. "2", "All"
> and "Most". :-)

Never had a prang in London, but came close to having to push the bike home
(or abandon it) a couple of times.