Smart Motorway Costs

[Simon Jester]

http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m6-junctions-16-19-smart-motorway/

£274 million to upgrade 3 of the 45 junction on the M6 alone.
£4 Billion to upgrade the whole M6.

Motoring taxes generate £6 billion pa

http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m5-junctions-4a-to-6-smart-motorway/

31 Junctions on the M5
£2.8 Billion

47 Junctions on M1
£4.3 Billion

How are motorists going to pay for this as well as the rest of the motorways and the local road they currently use free of charge?

[Mr Pounder Esquire]

Pillock.

[Simon Jester]

Still obsessed with male genitalia, I see.
Now try answering the question.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

He's not intelligent enough to construct answers.

--
My car is a hybrid. It burns petrol AND oil.

[Mr Pounder Esquire]

Then you fall for his little game, Hucker.
You are stupid enough to do this. After all, you are a scum cyclist.
Answer his question, Hucker.

[Tony Dragon]

On 06/01/2018 18:43, Simon Jester wrote:
>
> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m6-junctions-16-19-smart-motorway/
>
> £274 million to upgrade 3 of the 45 junction on the M6 alone.
> £4 Billion to upgrade the whole M6.
>
> Motoring taxes generate £6 billion pa

Would you give a breakdown of motoring taxes?

>
> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m5-junctions-4a-to-6-smart-motorway/
>
> 31 Junctions on the M5
> £2.8 Billion
>
> 47 Junctions on M1
> £4.3 Billion
>
> How are motorists going to pay for this as well as the rest of the motorways and the local road they currently use free of charge?
>
>
>
>

I presume that you do not pay council tax, or any other form of
taxation, as local roads are paid for by the council that gets its money
from council tax & central government.

[Simon Jester]

On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 8:34:55 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
> On 06/01/2018 18:43, Simon Jester wrote:
> >
> > http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m6-junctions-16-19-smart-motorway/
> >
> > £274 million to upgrade 3 of the 45 junction on the M6 alone.
> > £4 Billion to upgrade the whole M6.
> >
> > Motoring taxes generate £6 billion pa
>
> Would you give a breakdown of motoring taxes?

VED is the only specific motoring tax, it raises £6billion pa of which £10billion is spent on motorway maintenance, even Autoholics Anonymous agree with that.

> >
> > http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m5-junctions-4a-to-6-smart-motorway/
> >
> > 31 Junctions on the M5
> > £2.8 Billion
> >
> > 47 Junctions on M1
> > £4.3 Billion
> >
> > How are motorists going to pay for this as well as the rest of the motorways and the local road they currently use free of charge?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> I presume that you do not pay council tax, or any other form of
> taxation, as local roads are paid for by the council that gets its money
> from council tax & central government.

So you agree cyclists pay for the roads they use many times over given the 4th power of axle loading rule.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

I am not interested in his game. I am interested in why you just write prick and pillock instead of communicating in English. Perhaps you've lost some brain cells?

> You are stupid enough to do this. After all, you are a scum cyclist.

I drive 99.9% of the time. If I cycle, it's usually offroad. If I have to cycle along a road, I use the pavement to keep out of the way of the faster vehicles.

> Answer his question, Hucker.

I was not asked it.

--
Bozone (n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future.

[Simon Jester]

On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 10:09:40 PM UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

> I drive 99.9% of the time. If I cycle, it's usually offroad. If I have to cycle along a road, I use the pavement to keep out of the way of the faster vehicles.

Why do cycle at all when you can run faster?

Is this you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj7I6gK1RS0

[Tony Dragon]

On 06/01/2018 21:06, Simon Jester wrote:
> On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 8:34:55 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
>> On 06/01/2018 18:43, Simon Jester wrote:
>>>
>>> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m6-junctions-16-19-smart-motorway/
>>>
>>> £274 million to upgrade 3 of the 45 junction on the M6 alone.
>>> £4 Billion to upgrade the whole M6.
>>>
>>> Motoring taxes generate £6 billion pa
>>
>> Would you give a breakdown of motoring taxes?
>
> VED is the only specific motoring tax, it raises £6billion pa of which £10billion is spent on motorway maintenance, even Autoholics Anonymous agree with that.
>

So the VAT on fuel, and tax on new cars, tax on vehicle parts/service.
tolls etc does not exist.

>>>
>>> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m5-junctions-4a-to-6-smart-motorway/
>>>
>>> 31 Junctions on the M5
>>> £2.8 Billion
>>>
>>> 47 Junctions on M1
>>> £4.3 Billion
>>>
>>> How are motorists going to pay for this as well as the rest of the motorways and the local road they currently use free of charge?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I presume that you do not pay council tax, or any other form of
>> taxation, as local roads are paid for by the council that gets its money
>> from council tax & central government.
>
> So you agree cyclists pay for the roads they use many times over given the 4th power of axle loading rule.
>
>

No, I stand by what I posted, that is the post that you avoided.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

No, but if you look up the races "ToughGuy" and "McToughGuy", you might find a picture of me.

--
CONGRESS.SYS corrupted... Re-boot Washington D.C. (Y/N)?

[Simon Jester]

On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 11:12:56 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
> On 06/01/2018 21:06, Simon Jester wrote:
> > On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 8:34:55 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
> >> On 06/01/2018 18:43, Simon Jester wrote:
> >>>
> >>> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m6-junctions-16-19-smart-motorway/
> >>>
> >>> £274 million to upgrade 3 of the 45 junction on the M6 alone.
> >>> £4 Billion to upgrade the whole M6.
> >>>
> >>> Motoring taxes generate £6 billion pa
> >>
> >> Would you give a breakdown of motoring taxes?
> >
> > VED is the only specific motoring tax, it raises £6billion pa of which £10billion is spent on motorway maintenance, even Autoholics Anonymous agree with that.
> >
>
> So the VAT on fuel, and tax on new cars, tax on vehicle parts/service.
> tolls etc does not exist.

Paid by all road users but only motorists can use motorways.

> >>>
> >>> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m5-junctions-4a-to-6-smart-motorway/
> >>>
> >>> 31 Junctions on the M5
> >>> £2.8 Billion
> >>>
> >>> 47 Junctions on M1
> >>> £4.3 Billion
> >>>
> >>> How are motorists going to pay for this as well as the rest of the motorways and the local road they currently use free of charge?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> I presume that you do not pay council tax, or any other form of
> >> taxation, as local roads are paid for by the council that gets its money
> >> from council tax & central government.
> >
> > So you agree cyclists pay for the roads they use many times over given the 4th power of axle loading rule.
> >
> >
>
> No, I stand by what I posted, that is the post that you avoided.

So you are saying cyclists do not pay council tax or income tax?

[Peter Keller]

Eh?

[Peter Keller]

Careful --
Pounder always carries a sharpened rusty serrated chisel dripping with
bile, gunk, snot and slime in his execrable back pocket --

[Tony Dragon]

On 07/01/2018 05:26, Simon Jester wrote:
> On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 11:12:56 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
>> On 06/01/2018 21:06, Simon Jester wrote:
>>> On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 8:34:55 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
>>>> On 06/01/2018 18:43, Simon Jester wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m6-junctions-16-19-smart-motorway/
>>>>>
>>>>> £274 million to upgrade 3 of the 45 junction on the M6 alone.
>>>>> £4 Billion to upgrade the whole M6.
>>>>>
>>>>> Motoring taxes generate £6 billion pa
>>>>
>>>> Would you give a breakdown of motoring taxes?
>>>
>>> VED is the only specific motoring tax, it raises £6billion pa of which £10billion is spent on motorway maintenance, even Autoholics Anonymous agree with that.
>>>
>>
>> So the VAT on fuel, and tax on new cars, tax on vehicle parts/service.
>> tolls etc does not exist.
>
> Paid by all road users but only motorists can use motorways.
>

Avoidance noted, you stated that VED was the only specific motoring tax.

>>>>>
>>>>> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m5-junctions-4a-to-6-smart-motorway/
>>>>>
>>>>> 31 Junctions on the M5
>>>>> £2.8 Billion
>>>>>
>>>>> 47 Junctions on M1
>>>>> £4.3 Billion
>>>>>
>>>>> How are motorists going to pay for this as well as the rest of the motorways and the local road they currently use free of charge?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I presume that you do not pay council tax, or any other form of
>>>> taxation, as local roads are paid for by the council that gets its money
>>>> from council tax & central government.
>>>
>>> So you agree cyclists pay for the roads they use many times over given the 4th power of axle loading rule.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No, I stand by what I posted, that is the post that you avoided.
>
> So you are saying cyclists do not pay council tax or income tax?
>
>
>

Avoidance noted,you said motorists use local roads free of charge.
Many road users do not pay income tax and/or council tax.

[Simon Jester]

On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 9:52:53 AM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
> On 07/01/2018 05:26, Simon Jester wrote:
> > On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 11:12:56 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
> >> On 06/01/2018 21:06, Simon Jester wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 8:34:55 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
> >>>> On 06/01/2018 18:43, Simon Jester wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m6-junctions-16-19-smart-motorway/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> £274 million to upgrade 3 of the 45 junction on the M6 alone.
> >>>>> £4 Billion to upgrade the whole M6.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Motoring taxes generate £6 billion pa
> >>>>
> >>>> Would you give a breakdown of motoring taxes?
> >>>
> >>> VED is the only specific motoring tax, it raises £6billion pa of which £10billion is spent on motorway maintenance, even Autoholics Anonymous agree with that.
> >>>
> >>
> >> So the VAT on fuel, and tax on new cars, tax on vehicle parts/service.
> >> tolls etc does not exist.
> >
> > Paid by all road users but only motorists can use motorways.
> >
>
> Avoidance noted, you stated that VED was the only specific motoring tax.

No avoidance, anyone who buys a gallon of petrol pays the same price no matter what their chosen form of transport.

> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m5-junctions-4a-to-6-smart-motorway/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 31 Junctions on the M5
> >>>>> £2.8 Billion
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 47 Junctions on M1
> >>>>> £4.3 Billion
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How are motorists going to pay for this as well as the rest of the motorways and the local road they currently use free of charge?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I presume that you do not pay council tax, or any other form of
> >>>> taxation, as local roads are paid for by the council that gets its money
> >>>> from council tax & central government.
> >>>
> >>> So you agree cyclists pay for the roads they use many times over given the 4th power of axle loading rule.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> No, I stand by what I posted, that is the post that you avoided.
> >
> > So you are saying cyclists do not pay council tax or income tax?
> >
> >
> >
> Avoidance noted,you said motorists use local roads free of charge.
> Many road users do not pay income tax and/or council tax.

No avoidance, everyone pays income and council tax, but some of this goes to fund motorways which only motorists can use.

[JNugent]

On 07/01/2018 05:26, Simon Jester wrote:
> On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 11:12:56 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
>> On 06/01/2018 21:06, Simon Jester wrote:
>>> On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 8:34:55 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
>>>> On 06/01/2018 18:43, Simon Jester wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m6-junctions-16-19-smart-motorway/
>>>>>
>>>>> £274 million to upgrade 3 of the 45 junction on the M6 alone.
>>>>> £4 Billion to upgrade the whole M6.
>>>>>
>>>>> Motoring taxes generate £6 billion pa
>>>>
>>>> Would you give a breakdown of motoring taxes?
>>>
>>> VED is the only specific motoring tax, it raises £6billion pa of which £10billion is spent on motorway maintenance, even Autoholics Anonymous agree with that.
>>>
>>
>> So the VAT on fuel, and tax on new cars, tax on vehicle parts/service.
>> tolls etc does not exist.
>
> Paid by all road users but only motorists can use motorways.

Pedestrians aren't allowed on motorways whether they have driving
licences or not.

Apart from mopeds, invalid carriages, certain milk floats and maybe one
or two other equally esoteric specialist vehicles, any vehicle which
uses taxed motor spirit (petrol or diesel) is allowed onto a motorway.

At a conservative estimate, tax paid annually on fuel for the average
private car will be a minimum of about ten times more than the rate of
Road Tax for that vehicle. In the case of my own car, with its £20 a
year Road Tax, the fuel tax bill over 12,000 miles is more than sixty
times greater, at something like £1250+ a year. And that's in addition
to the Road Tax, plus Insurance Premium Tax, plus VAT on servicing,
repairs and consumables.

PS: I have always thought it daft - and probably immoral - to charge VAT
on essential safety maintenance and spares on any vehicle.

[JNugent]

On 07/01/2018 12:16, Simon Jester wrote:

> ...everyone pays income and council tax...

<sigh>

If *only* that were true.

But it isn't.

[Tony Dragon]

On 07/01/2018 12:16, Simon Jester wrote:

> On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 9:52:53 AM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
>> On 07/01/2018 05:26, Simon Jester wrote:
>>> On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 11:12:56 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
>>>> On 06/01/2018 21:06, Simon Jester wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 8:34:55 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
>>>>>> On 06/01/2018 18:43, Simon Jester wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m6-junctions-16-19-smart-motorway/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> £274 million to upgrade 3 of the 45 junction on the M6 alone.
>>>>>>> £4 Billion to upgrade the whole M6.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Motoring taxes generate £6 billion pa
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would you give a breakdown of motoring taxes?
>>>>>
>>>>> VED is the only specific motoring tax, it raises £6billion pa of which £10billion is spent on motorway maintenance, even Autoholics Anonymous agree with that.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So the VAT on fuel, and tax on new cars, tax on vehicle parts/service.
>>>> tolls etc does not exist.
>>>
>>> Paid by all road users but only motorists can use motorways.
>>>
>>
>> Avoidance noted, you stated that VED was the only specific motoring tax.
>
> No avoidance, anyone who buys a gallon of petrol pays the same price no matter what their chosen form of transport.

And what about tax on a new car?

>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m5-junctions-4a-to-6-smart-motorway/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 31 Junctions on the M5
>>>>>>> £2.8 Billion
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 47 Junctions on M1
>>>>>>> £4.3 Billion
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How are motorists going to pay for this as well as the rest of the motorways and the local road they currently use free of charge?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I presume that you do not pay council tax, or any other form of
>>>>>> taxation, as local roads are paid for by the council that gets its money
>>>>>> from council tax & central government.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you agree cyclists pay for the roads they use many times over given the 4th power of axle loading rule.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, I stand by what I posted, that is the post that you avoided.
>>>
>>> So you are saying cyclists do not pay council tax or income tax?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Avoidance noted,you said motorists use local roads free of charge.
>> Many road users do not pay income tax and/or council tax.
>
> No avoidance, everyone pays income and council tax, but some of this goes to fund motorways which only motorists can use.
>
>
>

Everybody does not pay income tax.
Everybody does not pay council tax.

[MrCheerful]

Every person can travel on the motorways, and every person benefits from
their existence in one way or another.

[JNugent]

Sorry to don my pedant's hat for a moment, but that should be:

"Not everybody pays income tax.
Not everybody pays council tax."

There's a difference!

[MrCheerful]

Surely that should read 'I am sorry...etc' :)

[JNugent]

:-;

[Simon Jester]

On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 3:39:34 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
> On 07/01/2018 12:16, Simon Jester wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 9:52:53 AM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
> >> On 07/01/2018 05:26, Simon Jester wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 11:12:56 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
> >>>> On 06/01/2018 21:06, Simon Jester wrote:
> >>>>> On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 8:34:55 PM UTC, Tony Dragon wrote:
> >>>>>> On 06/01/2018 18:43, Simon Jester wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m6-junctions-16-19-smart-motorway/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> £274 million to upgrade 3 of the 45 junction on the M6 alone.
> >>>>>>> £4 Billion to upgrade the whole M6.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Motoring taxes generate £6 billion pa
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Would you give a breakdown of motoring taxes?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> VED is the only specific motoring tax, it raises £6billion pa of which £10billion is spent on motorway maintenance, even Autoholics Anonymous agree with that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> So the VAT on fuel, and tax on new cars, tax on vehicle parts/service.
> >>>> tolls etc does not exist.
> >>>
> >>> Paid by all road users but only motorists can use motorways.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Avoidance noted, you stated that VED was the only specific motoring tax.
> >
> > No avoidance, anyone who buys a gallon of petrol pays the same price no matter what their chosen form of transport.
>
> And what about tax on a new car?

It is the same as the tax on a new bicycle.

>
> >
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m5-junctions-4a-to-6-smart-motorway/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 31 Junctions on the M5
> >>>>>>> £2.8 Billion
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 47 Junctions on M1
> >>>>>>> £4.3 Billion
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> How are motorists going to pay for this as well as the rest of the motorways and the local road they currently use free of charge?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I presume that you do not pay council tax, or any other form of
> >>>>>> taxation, as local roads are paid for by the council that gets its money
> >>>>>> from council tax & central government.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So you agree cyclists pay for the roads they use many times over given the 4th power of axle loading rule.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> No, I stand by what I posted, that is the post that you avoided.
> >>>
> >>> So you are saying cyclists do not pay council tax or income tax?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Avoidance noted,you said motorists use local roads free of charge.
> >> Many road users do not pay income tax and/or council tax.
> >
> > No avoidance, everyone pays income and council tax, but some of this goes to fund motorways which only motorists can use.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Everybody does not pay income tax.
> Everybody does not pay council tax.

Is there some point you are failing to make?

[JNugent]

Given that you erroneously claimed that everybody pays income tax and
council tax, and whereas that is not true, have a guess at the point he
was making.

[Mr Pounder Esquire]

Please Mr Nugent.
Simon is not very bright and you need to be kind to him, if you can see that
your path is clear that is. You do seem to be a kind man.
I myself are kind to niggers and dumb animals, but I will never be kind to a
cyclist.

[Simon Jester]

Define Nigger.

[Tony Dragon]

On 07/01/2018 16:09, JNugent wrote:

I accept your correction.

But to put it into context:-
My son does not pay council tax
My brother in law does not pay income tax

[Simon Jester]

So you agree cyclists not only pay for the road space they use but also subsidise motorists.
Thanks for your support.

[Tony Dragon]

My neighbours son (a cyclist) does not pay income tax or council tax.

Your comment therefore is not true.

[Simon Jester]

Strawman alert!

The point is these new smart motorways are paid for by all tax payers whether they can use them or not.
Motoring taxes don't even cover the cost of maintaining the current motorway network.

[Tony Dragon]

Where does the money come from then, is it just taxes from people who do
not use motor vehicles?

[MrCheerful]

everyone benefits from motorways, whether they can themselves drive on
them is irrelevant. Apart from the bed ridden, everyone can travel on
them too.

[Peter Keller]

On 08.01.2018 09:15, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
> I will never be kind to a
> cyclist.

That is the last thing I would expect of you.
What have you smeared your chisel with this time?

[Simon Jester]

So you would be happy if a motorway was built through your garden?

[Simon Jester]

Asked and answered.