Radio Society of Great Britain - Main Site for Saturday 18 July 2015

[RSGB via rec.radio.info Admin]

Radio Society of Great Britain - Main Site

///////////////////////////////////////////
ARISS shortlist revealed

Posted: 17 Jul 2015 07:35 AM PDT
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RadioSocietyOfGreatBritain-MainSite/~3/A6bi_bUUNv8/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email

The list of 10 schools that will have the opportunity to contact British
ESA astronaut Tim Peake using amateur radio while he is in orbit was
revealed at the UK Space Conference earlier this week. Tim will launch to
the International Space Station this December and will spend six months
working and living on the []

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New Radio initiative

Posted: 17 Jul 2015 07:26 AM PDT
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RadioSocietyOfGreatBritain-MainSite/~3/8Cn-TTZO_kY/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email

At the amateur radio show in Friedrichshafen, a ‘new radio’ initiative led
by the Austrian and German national societies was launched. This
highlighted that amateur radio equipment, particularly handhelds, needs to
move further into the 21st century and towards ‘smart’ radios with
adaptable voice flex codecs as well as a more open applications layer,
perhaps []

///////////////////////////////////////////
Listen out for MC0RYC youngsters

Posted: 17 Jul 2015 07:19 AM PDT
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RadioSocietyOfGreatBritain-MainSite/~3/g-Yys8iOkbo/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email

The RSGB’s Youth Committee DXpedition, DX-15, will be active as MC0RYC from
the Brecon Beacons in Wales from 23 to 30 July. Throughout the course of
the week, they will be taking part in a range of activities including
operating SOTA summits. Please work the young team if you can. The RSGB
would like to []

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Also in GB2RS this week

Posted: 17 Jul 2015 07:06 AM PDT
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RadioSocietyOfGreatBritain-MainSite/~3/yw1HbMcM91s/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email

In Europe, 76 young amateur radio operators from more than 22 nations are
getting ready to share their youthful enthusiasm for the hobby at the
Youngsters on the Air summer camp in Italy from 18 to 25 July. A small team
of youngsters from the UK will be there. The programme, which is a mix []

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GB2RS News Script for 19 July 2015

Posted: 17 Jul 2015 06:53 AM PDT
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RadioSocietyOfGreatBritain-MainSite/~3/zlhCVyU9Rm8/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email

Click here if your GB2RS News Script download does not start automatically

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

> Posted: 17 Jul 2015 07:26 AM PDT
> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RadioSocietyOfGreatBritain-MainSite/~3/8Cn-TTZO_kY/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email
>
> At the amateur radio show in Friedrichshafen, a 'new radio' initiative led
> by the Austrian and German national societies was launched. This
> highlighted that amateur radio equipment, particularly handhelds, needs to
> move further into the 21st century and towards 'smart' radios with
> adaptable voice flex codecs as well as a more open applications layer,
> perhaps

OMG .....

[Spike]

On 18/07/2015 07:34, RSGB via rec.radio.info Admin wrote:
> Radio Society of Great Britain - Main Site

> ///////////////////////////////////////////

> New Radio initiative

> Posted: 17 Jul 2015 07:26 AM PDT
> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RadioSocietyOfGreatBritain-MainSite/~3/8Cn-TTZO_kY/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email

> At the amateur radio show in Friedrichshafen, a ‘new radio’

> initiative led by the Austrian and German national societies was

> launched. This highlighted that amateur radio equipment, particularly their own ge

> handhelds, needs to move further into the 21st century and towards

> ‘smart’ radios with adaptable voice flex codecs as well as a more
> open applications layer, perhaps []

Did anyone think to ask the reason why AR gear 'needs' to 'move forward'
in this manner?

What we actually need is more people building their own gear, rather
than being locked into such an arbitrary system. This would have the
merit of producing Amateurs that knew their sidetone from their
sideband, to coin a phrase.

--
Spike

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power" - Abraham Lincoln

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

"Spike" <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:d0udp6...@mid.individual.net...

> On 18/07/2015 07:34, RSGB via rec.radio.info Admin wrote:
>> Radio Society of Great Britain - Main Site
>
>> ///////////////////////////////////////////
>> New Radio initiative
>
>> Posted: 17 Jul 2015 07:26 AM PDT
>> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RadioSocietyOfGreatBritain-MainSite/~3/8Cn-TTZO_kY/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email
>

>> At the amateur radio show in Friedrichshafen, a â?~new radioâ?T

>> initiative led by the Austrian and German national societies was
>> launched. This highlighted that amateur radio equipment, particularly
>> their own ge
>> handhelds, needs to move further into the 21st century and towards

>> â?~smartâ?T radios with adaptable voice flex codecs as well as a more

>> open applications layer, perhaps []
>
> Did anyone think to ask the reason why AR gear 'needs' to 'move forward'
> in this manner?
>
> What we actually need is more people building their own gear, rather than
> being locked into such an arbitrary system. This would have the merit of
> producing Amateurs that knew their sidetone from their sideband, to coin a
> phrase.
>

> Spike
>
unlike sordid steve .....

[Rob]

Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
> On 18/07/2015 07:34, RSGB via rec.radio.info Admin wrote:
>> Radio Society of Great Britain - Main Site
>
>> ///////////////////////////////////////////
>> New Radio initiative
>
>> Posted: 17 Jul 2015 07:26 AM PDT
>> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RadioSocietyOfGreatBritain-MainSite/~3/8Cn-TTZO_kY/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email
>
>> At the amateur radio show in Friedrichshafen, a ‘new radio’
>> initiative led by the Austrian and German national societies was
>> launched. This highlighted that amateur radio equipment, particularly their own ge
>> handhelds, needs to move further into the 21st century and towards
>> ‘smart’ radios with adaptable voice flex codecs as well as a more
>> open applications layer, perhaps []
>
> Did anyone think to ask the reason why AR gear 'needs' to 'move forward'
> in this manner?
>
> What we actually need is more people building their own gear, rather
> than being locked into such an arbitrary system. This would have the
> merit of producing Amateurs that knew their sidetone from their
> sideband, to coin a phrase.

There are other initiatives that strive to achieve that. And when you
think not enough is being done, you can always start your own one or
back one of the existing groups.

Some people are even developing and building their own gear that operates
using new technology.

[Spike]

On 18/07/2015 08:51, Rob wrote:
> Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
>> On 18/07/2015 07:34, RSGB via rec.radio.info Admin wrote:
>>> Radio Society of Great Britain - Main Site

>>> ///////////////////////////////////////////
>>> New Radio initiative

>>> Posted: 17 Jul 2015 07:26 AM PDT
>>> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RadioSocietyOfGreatBritain-MainSite/~3/8Cn-TTZO_kY/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email
>>

>>> At the amateur radio show in Friedrichshafen, a ‘new radio’

>>> initiative led by the Austrian and German national societies was
>>> launched. This highlighted that amateur radio equipment, particularly their own ge
>>> handhelds, needs to move further into the 21st century and towards

>>> ‘smart’ radios with adaptable voice flex codecs as well as a more

>>> open applications layer, perhaps []

>> Did anyone think to ask the reason why AR gear 'needs' to 'move forward'
>> in this manner?

>> What we actually need is more people building their own gear, rather
>> than being locked into such an arbitrary system. This would have the
>> merit of producing Amateurs that knew their sidetone from their
>> sideband, to coin a phrase.

> There are other initiatives that strive to achieve that.

When can we look forward to reaping the benefits of such advances?

> And when you
> think not enough is being done, you can always start your own one or
> back one of the existing groups.

I think that part of my point is that too much is being suggested that
'needs' to be done, much of it apparently thoughtless. Repeaters, for
example, had their day 30 years ago, and since then have stifled
individual station development as it too easy to use them with very
indifferent equipment.

> Some people are even developing and building their own gear that operates
> using new technology.

That's the nature of the Amateur licence, of course, but that's a far
cry from someone's view that AR 'needs move further into the 21st
Century'. The dominant mode is close to being 200 years old, and shows
no sign of going away despite its removal from testing regimes and being
talked down by some of those that never achieved that status.

These comments are from a UK perspective.

[Rob]

Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
> On 18/07/2015 08:51, Rob wrote:
>> Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 18/07/2015 07:34, RSGB via rec.radio.info Admin wrote:
>>>> Radio Society of Great Britain - Main Site
>
>>>> ///////////////////////////////////////////
>>>> New Radio initiative
>
>>>> Posted: 17 Jul 2015 07:26 AM PDT
>>>> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RadioSocietyOfGreatBritain-MainSite/~3/8Cn-TTZO_kY/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email
>>>
>>>> At the amateur radio show in Friedrichshafen, a ‘new radio’
>>>> initiative led by the Austrian and German national societies was
>>>> launched. This highlighted that amateur radio equipment, particularly their own ge
>>>> handhelds, needs to move further into the 21st century and towards
>>>> ‘smart’ radios with adaptable voice flex codecs as well as a more
>>>> open applications layer, perhaps []
>
>>> Did anyone think to ask the reason why AR gear 'needs' to 'move forward'
>>> in this manner?
>
>>> What we actually need is more people building their own gear, rather
>>> than being locked into such an arbitrary system. This would have the
>>> merit of producing Amateurs that knew their sidetone from their
>>> sideband, to coin a phrase.
>
>> There are other initiatives that strive to achieve that.
>
> When can we look forward to reaping the benefits of such advances?

When you think about "reaping the benefits" you are already way out of
phase with the attitude required to keep amateur radio alive.

When you think something has to be improved, you need to work on it
yourself.

>> And when you
>> think not enough is being done, you can always start your own one or
>> back one of the existing groups.
>
> I think that part of my point is that too much is being suggested that
> 'needs' to be done, much of it apparently thoughtless. Repeaters, for
> example, had their day 30 years ago, and since then have stifled
> individual station development as it too easy to use them with very
> indifferent equipment.

I hear that being said about our advanced repeater projects and honestly
I think it is bullshit.

>> Some people are even developing and building their own gear that operates
>> using new technology.
>
> That's the nature of the Amateur licence, of course, but that's a far
> cry from someone's view that AR 'needs move further into the 21st
> Century'. The dominant mode is close to being 200 years old, and shows
> no sign of going away despite its removal from testing regimes and being
> talked down by some of those that never achieved that status.
>
> These comments are from a UK perspective.

I don't know how the situation is in the UK but here in the Netherlands
the amateur radio hobby is quickly losing popularity for new entrants.
Most of the "new amateurs" are not really new, but they are pensioners
who picked up the old hobby they set aside when the kids came or sometimes
they have applied for a license now that this is so much easier than it
was before (having been active as pirates earlier in their life).
The average age is going up each year and when it continues like this
amateur radio will die with its participants.
When we want to attract more than a few new users, especially younger
ones, something will have to be done. This does not mean that existing
modes have to go away, but new things and new modes have to be made
available for new users that have a different view on the hobby than
those that started in the previous century have.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

> or sometimes
> they have applied for a license now that this is so much easier than it
> was before (having been active as pirates earlier in their life).

good man.....a very astute observation ....

[Spike]

On 18/07/2015 10:09, Rob wrote:
> Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
>> On 18/07/2015 08:51, Rob wrote:
>>> Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 18/07/2015 07:34, RSGB via rec.radio.info Admin wrote:
>>>>> Radio Society of Great Britain - Main Site

>>>>> ///////////////////////////////////////////
>>>>> New Radio initiative

>>>>> Posted: 17 Jul 2015 07:26 AM PDT
>>>>> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RadioSocietyOfGreatBritain-MainSite/~3/8Cn-TTZO_kY/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email

>>>>> At the amateur radio show in Friedrichshafen, a ‘new radio’

>>>>> initiative led by the Austrian and German national societies was
>>>>> launched. This highlighted that amateur radio equipment, particularly their own ge
>>>>> handhelds, needs to move further into the 21st century and towards

>>>>> ‘smart’ radios with adaptable voice flex codecs as well as a more

>>>>> open applications layer, perhaps []

>>>> Did anyone think to ask the reason why AR gear 'needs' to 'move forward'
>>>> in this manner?

>>>> What we actually need is more people building their own gear, rather
>>>> than being locked into such an arbitrary system. This would have the
>>>> merit of producing Amateurs that knew their sidetone from their
>>>> sideband, to coin a phrase.

>>> There are other initiatives that strive to achieve that.

>> When can we look forward to reaping the benefits of such advances?

> When you think about "reaping the benefits" you are already way out of
> phase with the attitude required to keep amateur radio alive.

> When you think something has to be improved, you need to work on it
> yourself.

Interesting assertions.

>>> And when you
>>> think not enough is being done, you can always start your own one or
>>> back one of the existing groups.

>> I think that part of my point is that too much is being suggested that
>> 'needs' to be done, much of it apparently thoughtless. Repeaters, for
>> example, had their day 30 years ago, and since then have stifled
>> individual station development as it too easy to use them with very
>> indifferent equipment.


> I hear that being said about our advanced repeater projects and honestly
> I think it is bullshit.

We are all entitled to our thoughts.

>>> Some people are even developing and building their own gear that operates
>>> using new technology.

>> That's the nature of the Amateur licence, of course, but that's a far
>> cry from someone's view that AR 'needs move further into the 21st
>> Century'. The dominant mode is close to being 200 years old, and shows
>> no sign of going away despite its removal from testing regimes and being
>> talked down by some of those that never achieved that status.

>> These comments are from a UK perspective.

> I don't know how the situation is in the UK but here in the Netherlands
> the amateur radio hobby is quickly losing popularity for new entrants.
> Most of the "new amateurs" are not really new, but they are pensioners
> who picked up the old hobby they set aside when the kids came or sometimes
> they have applied for a license now that this is so much easier than it
> was before (having been active as pirates earlier in their life).

> The average age is going up each year and when it continues like this
> amateur radio will die with its participants.
> When we want to attract more than a few new users, especially younger
> ones, something will have to be done. This does not mean that existing
> modes have to go away, but new things and new modes have to be made
> available for new users that have a different view on the hobby than
> those that started in the previous century have.

This same assertion has been made for some decades in the UK, it being
used to impose the current scheme that we enjoy (or suffer) here. The UK
Society's own data show that attempts to attract 'the young' have been a
failure. That is to say that young people, some as young as 5 years,
have passed the lowest grade of licence, but the figures in the
membership graph show the merest blip at the lower age ranges.
Initiatives such as the 'Fun Bus' have been mothballed, despite the
money spent on promoting the young. Peak membership is in the >40s age
range, and it is these that go on to keep AR going.This is from the
Society's own surveys which show that in the UK, the 'average Amateur'
is 60 years old, male, works HF CW, and builds things. *But* this has
been the case for *at least* the last 25 years, and the 60-year-olds of
that time have all but passed away - yet still AR survives despite the
lack of 'youngsters'. This is because those that take up AR in their 30s
and 40s stay with it. The 'we need youngsters' message might be true,
but it doesn't mean that kids just out of nappies are the group that
will 'save' AR, it's those that come to it later in life - as all the
data shows.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Spike losing his temper at being corrected, as per.

--
STC // M0TEY // twitter.com/ukradioamateur

[Brian Reay]

Funny how he insists modes are 'talked down', I don't recall experiencing
that, the only people who talk aspects of the hobby down are people like
him.

As for people building their own gear, while I support this, his support
would be more convincing if he and his fellow usual rejects had any
credibility in this area. Decades of vapour ware don't count.

[Rob]

Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
> This same assertion has been made for some decades in the UK, it being
> used to impose the current scheme that we enjoy (or suffer) here. The UK
> Society's own data show that attempts to attract 'the young' have been a
> failure. That is to say that young people, some as young as 5 years,
> have passed the lowest grade of licence, but the figures in the
> membership graph show the merest blip at the lower age ranges.

But did you attract "the young" with new equipment and new modes, as was
the topic of this thread, or did you try to attract them to the same
old stuff that you enjoyed yourself?

> Initiatives such as the 'Fun Bus' have been mothballed, despite the
> money spent on promoting the young. Peak membership is in the >40s age
> range, and it is these that go on to keep AR going.This is from the
> Society's own surveys which show that in the UK, the 'average Amateur'
> is 60 years old, male, works HF CW, and builds things. *But* this has
> been the case for *at least* the last 25 years, and the 60-year-olds of
> that time have all but passed away - yet still AR survives despite the
> lack of 'youngsters'. This is because those that take up AR in their 30s
> and 40s stay with it. The 'we need youngsters' message might be true,
> but it doesn't mean that kids just out of nappies are the group that
> will 'save' AR, it's those that come to it later in life - as all the
> data shows.

Over here, in the late seventies, when I got my license as well, there
has been a firm repression of pirate stations on 27 MHz and 3M FM, and
amateur radio has been suggested to them as a legal alternative.
A novice license was introduced in 1976 and it resulted in a large
peak in the influx of new amateurs, then between 18 and maybe 60 in
age. So then there was a wide age distribution and a fast growing
number of HAMs. I got my license in 1978 when I was 18, although I
had never been a pirate and became interested from a general interest
in electronics. About 1000 new licensees entered each year back then,
over a population of 13 million or so.
This continued into the eighties and then began to taper off, both
because of the finite population that would be interested in it and
because a legal mode of operation on 27 MHz was introduced in 1980.

Those that entered at a young age may have left the hobby partly to
re-enter now. But at this moment there is barely any new entry at ages
around 18 and not very much at middle ages. Most of the new entries
are novice licensees, that in the meantime have gotten more and more
privileges. (in 1976 they could only operate in FM on 6 channels in the
2m band, which was soon upgraded to half of the 2m band, 70cm was added,
and later several HF segments were added so that now most novices see
no reason to ever get a full license and only whine about getting even
more bands in the novice license)

While I agree that we should not focus on getting many "young" people
(like 12-year olds) into a hobby that is mainly enjoyed by pensioners,
there has to be more influx if we want to keep this thing going. The
re-entry as we see it now will some time stop, when the group that has
entered in the 70's and 80's have all become pensioners and the fraction
of it still interested has re-entered. There will be no such effect
anymore, then (at least not noticable).

Another problem is that the HF bands slowly become unusable due to
a number of different effects:

- now that receiving TV at home with an own antenna is becoming rare,
so have become "antenna forests". the HAM with an elaborate antenna
park is becoming noticed and gets in trouble getting permits for it.
this is a problem when you want to set up a HF beam, or a large VHF/UHF
antenna that was no problem 30 years ago.

- introduction of new digital consumer devices that output interference
especially in lower bands have raised the noise level.

- the demise of the long, medium and shortwave for radio transmission
to the public has also meant the end of the "protection" against such
interference.

Besides, the availability of the internet and mobile phones has cut
away most of the exclusiveness of our hobby. 30 years ago, one could
still impress the visitor by talking to a far country or operating a
2m handheld to talk to a fried 30km away via a repeater, but today
the youngsters ask "why don't you use Skype?".

This means that those that are mainly interested in communicating and
DX'ing are more harder to get interested, and what remains are those
who are interested in the raw technical aspects. But they have, at
least here, been a minority for a long time already.
(namely, since the large influx of ex-pirates in the 70's and 80's)

With only technically interested radio amateurs and no "communicators"
you probably have less than 10% left of the community as it is now.
And when looking at the band usage, the loss will be even more.

I think THAT is a reason why this Austrian/German group is trying to
develop new technology equipment that will do things that the youngsters
of today are accustomed to, instead of trying to get them interested
in oldfashioned radio that they have never grown up with.

[Brian Reay]

Good points.

The only one I would argue with is the one where you mention people saying
'can't you do that with ...' In my experience that is only ever said by
people like Spike, who seem totally out of touch with the hobby and are
entirely negative.

I've seen teenagers totally fascinated by a basic QSO, especially on HF.
Not one has mentioned Skype or mobile phones.

Why? It is rather obvious. Suppose amateur radio was banned, would we all
start dialing random telephone numbers for a chat, with people we don't
know? Or doing the same on Skype?

[Rob]

Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
> The only one I would argue with is the one where you mention people saying
> 'can't you do that with ...' In my experience that is only ever said by
> people like Spike, who seem totally out of touch with the hobby and are
> entirely negative.

Unfortunately, also by people like judges and other authorities.

Recently, when people ask for permission to put antennas on roofs or
to build antenna masts, or enter legal procedures when that permission
is denied, they more and more face the problem that exceptions that
once were given to radio amateurs are now no longer granted, and the
"freedom to receive information" motivation is no longer accepted,
stating that enough free information can be received via the internet.

In effect, when amateurs bring forward that they need that big antenna
to receive signals from others that are far away, the judge says
"then why don't you use Skype" or "why don't you call him on your mobile
phone".

This was not a problem 10 years ago, but now it is.

> I've seen teenagers totally fascinated by a basic QSO, especially on HF.
> Not one has mentioned Skype or mobile phones.
>
> Why? It is rather obvious. Suppose amateur radio was banned, would we all
> start dialing random telephone numbers for a chat, with people we don't
> know? Or doing the same on Skype?

I recently heard the comparison of asking a weightlifter why they don't
use a forklift. Of course, that is obvious.

However, in the above cases it is not that simple. Note that a judge
in a case of a radio amateur against the neighbors, the municipality,
or a building owner where the amateur is a tenant, has to balance
the interests of both parties. The amateur wants to put up an antenna
to explore new horizons in his hobby, but the other party does not
like to see that ugly chunk of metal on the roof. It is quite
understandable that he tries to find a solution that makes both sides
happy, e.g. by suggesting the amateur to communicate in a more modern
way that does not require that ugly (in the eyes of others) antenna.
In fact, he may value the interests of the neighbors (w.r.t. appearance
of the antenna) more than that of the hobby of the amateur, and the chance
of this happening of course increases when there *are* real alternatives
to using radio.

Same thing with using frequencies. Many years ago part of the 70cm
band was allocated to "low power devices", that were tertiary users.
That meant they had to accept interference from primary and secondary
users of the bands, i.e. radiolocation and amateur. But as it happens,
more and more of those low power devices were sold to consumers, and
as it is now, interference to them is deemed socially unacceptable and
an amateur that causes such interference can get a notice that forbids
transmission in that band. In fact this has happened to an amateur
that frequently transmitted ATV on 70cm, where is neighbors could no
longer open their cars with the remote control.

Again, interests of other people are valued higher than the status of
the radio amateur, who has enough alternatives to transmit information.

So, even people outside amateur radio are questioning why we do want to
use radio for things that can as well be done on the internet.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

And it's almost the modern side of amateur radio they attack, the stuff
they don't understand.

> As for people building their own gear, while I support this, his support
> would be more convincing if he and his fellow usual rejects had any
> credibility in this area. Decades of vapour ware don't count.

Or, even worse, buying other people's homebrew projects and passing them
off as their own!

[Brian Reay]

On 18/07/15 15:22, Rob wrote:
> Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
>> The only one I would argue with is the one where you mention people saying
>> 'can't you do that with ...' In my experience that is only ever said by
>> people like Spike, who seem totally out of touch with the hobby and are
>> entirely negative.
>
> Unfortunately, also by people like judges and other authorities.
>
> Recently, when people ask for permission to put antennas on roofs or
> to build antenna masts, or enter legal procedures when that permission
> is denied, they more and more face the problem that exceptions that
> once were given to radio amateurs are now no longer granted, and the
> "freedom to receive information" motivation is no longer accepted,
> stating that enough free information can be received via the internet.
>
> In effect, when amateurs bring forward that they need that big antenna
> to receive signals from others that are far away, the judge says
> "then why don't you use Skype" or "why don't you call him on your mobile
> phone".
>
> This was not a problem 10 years ago, but now it is.

Thankfully, we don't seem to have got quite to that point here yet,
although so amateurs do (of course) have planning issues.

>
>> I've seen teenagers totally fascinated by a basic QSO, especially on HF.
>> Not one has mentioned Skype or mobile phones.
>>
>> Why? It is rather obvious. Suppose amateur radio was banned, would we all
>> start dialing random telephone numbers for a chat, with people we don't
>> know? Or doing the same on Skype?
>
> I recently heard the comparison of asking a weightlifter why they don't
> use a forklift. Of course, that is obvious.

I'll remember that one.

I've used the fishing vs buying fish example.

>
> However, in the above cases it is not that simple. Note that a judge
> in a case of a radio amateur against the neighbors, the municipality,
> or a building owner where the amateur is a tenant, has to balance
> the interests of both parties. The amateur wants to put up an antenna
> to explore new horizons in his hobby, but the other party does not
> like to see that ugly chunk of metal on the roof. It is quite
> understandable that he tries to find a solution that makes both sides
> happy, e.g. by suggesting the amateur to communicate in a more modern
> way that does not require that ugly (in the eyes of others) antenna.
> In fact, he may value the interests of the neighbors (w.r.t. appearance
> of the antenna) more than that of the hobby of the amateur, and the chance
> of this happening of course increases when there *are* real alternatives
> to using radio.

A good friend of mine had just such an issue recently (although he isn't
a tenant). He won in the end, or at least got permission with some
restrictions he could accept.

I think you are in either Oz or the US, where real estate is less of a
premium. Here, most plots are much smaller than in either Oz or the US
and problems with antennas can be more of an issue. As a result, huge
antenna towers are far less common. Many amateurs use wire antennas for
HF and small beams or 'white sticks' for VHF/UHF. These can generally be
erected without permission or dispute.

>
> Same thing with using frequencies. Many years ago part of the 70cm
> band was allocated to "low power devices", that were tertiary users.
> That meant they had to accept interference from primary and secondary
> users of the bands, i.e. radiolocation and amateur. But as it happens,
> more and more of those low power devices were sold to consumers, and
> as it is now, interference to them is deemed socially unacceptable and
> an amateur that causes such interference can get a notice that forbids
> transmission in that band. In fact this has happened to an amateur
> that frequently transmitted ATV on 70cm, where is neighbors could no
> longer open their cars with the remote control.

Thankfully, those low power devices are 'unprotected' here. Plus, 70cm
is allocated to the military and amateurs are secondary users.

>
> Again, interests of other people are valued higher than the status of
> the radio amateur, who has enough alternatives to transmit information.
>
> So, even people outside amateur radio are questioning why we do want to
> use radio for things that can as well be done on the internet.
>

We do get that, mainly in cases of TVI and when we raise issues
regarding EMI from things like Plasma TV and PLT devices- which are due
to their being no compliant with the relevant specs in the main!

[Brian Reay]

Which is why, if we are to have retesting, Full licence holders should
not only be retested but be expected to show they have progressed beyond
the examination they passed.

>
>> As for people building their own gear, while I support this, his support
>> would be more convincing if he and his fellow usual rejects had any
>> credibility in this area. Decades of vapour ware don't count.
>
> Or, even worse, buying other people's homebrew projects and passing them
> off as their own!
>

Some people seem to make a habit of that. As for those who whine about
others who buy commercial radios had have a huge collection of
themselves....

People should be free to enjoy their hobby without others trying to
dictate the conditions, especially if they don't observe those
conditions themselves.

[Ian Jackson]

In message <modroj$h39$1...@dont-email.me>, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> writes

>
>Thankfully, those low power devices are 'unprotected' here. Plus, 70cm
>is allocated to the military and amateurs are secondary users.
>

But how long will it be before someone on council planning committees
'hears' that amateur radio operation can stop neighbours from opening
their cars, and use that as a (possibly unspoken and unrecorded) reason
for refusing planning permission for an aerial?
>
>
>
>

--
Ian

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

But can't operate them without the manual...

[Jimbo ...]

"Stephen Thomas Cole" <use...@stephenthomascole.com> wrote in message
news:modue8$r0r$1...@dont-email.me...

> STC // M0TEY // twitter.com/ukradioamateur

..or have a manual and still don't know what sidetone is

[Spike]

On 18/07/2015 13:31, Rob wrote:
> Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:

>> This same assertion has been made for some decades in the UK, it being
>> used to impose the current scheme that we enjoy (or suffer) here. The UK
>> Society's own data show that attempts to attract 'the young' have been a
>> failure. That is to say that young people, some as young as 5 years,
>> have passed the lowest grade of licence, but the figures in the
>> membership graph show the merest blip at the lower age ranges.

> But did you attract "the young" with new equipment and new modes, as was
> the topic of this thread, or did you try to attract them to the same
> old stuff that you enjoyed yourself?

Well, attracting the young by means of new things hasn't worked.

The Society held a 'Buildathon' for the youngsters, using a Raspberry Pi
to decode RTTY

When asked about it later, the youngsters could only remember the RPi

(Source: RSGB General Manager).

> While I agree that we should not focus on getting many "young" people
> (like 12-year olds) into a hobby that is mainly enjoyed by pensioners,
> there has to be more influx if we want to keep this thing going. The
> re-entry as we see it now will some time stop, when the group that has
> entered in the 70's and 80's have all become pensioners and the fraction
> of it still interested has re-entered. There will be no such effect
> anymore, then (at least not noticable).

If that proves to be the case AR will have had its day.

But two years ago, the proportion of exam candidates under 21 years old
was 25%, which means that 75% was over that age. Some 50% were over 40,
so I don't see such a gloomy future here.

(Source: RSGB General Manager)

> Another problem is that the HF bands slowly become unusable due to
> a number of different effects:

> - now that receiving TV at home with an own antenna is becoming rare,
> so have become "antenna forests". the HAM with an elaborate antenna
> park is becoming noticed and gets in trouble getting permits for it.
> this is a problem when you want to set up a HF beam, or a large VHF/UHF
> antenna that was no problem 30 years ago.

> - introduction of new digital consumer devices that output interference
> especially in lower bands have raised the noise level.

> - the demise of the long, medium and shortwave for radio transmission
> to the public has also meant the end of the "protection" against such

> interference.,

There are ways of dealing with local noise: loop antennas for receiving,
noise cancelling antennas, for example. What you seem to be saying is
that the traditional methods (same aerial for transmitting and
receiving) need to change.

> Besides, the availability of the internet and mobile phones has cut
> away most of the exclusiveness of our hobby. 30 years ago, one could
> still impress the visitor by talking to a far country or operating a
> 2m handheld to talk to a fried 30km away via a repeater, but today
> the youngsters ask "why don't you use Skype?".

Do people use Skype to dial random numbers?

> This means that those that are mainly interested in communicating and
> DX'ing are more harder to get interested, and what remains are those
> who are interested in the raw technical aspects. But they have, at
> least here, been a minority for a long time already.
> (namely, since the large influx of ex-pirates in the 70's and 80's)

> With only technically interested radio amateurs and no "communicators"
> you probably have less than 10% left of the community as it is now.
> And when looking at the band usage, the loss will be even more.

> I think THAT is a reason why this Austrian/German group is trying to
> develop new technology equipment that will do things that the youngsters
> of today are accustomed to, instead of trying to get them interested
> in oldfashioned radio that they have never grown up with.

Well, it hasn't worked here, despite much money being thrown at it

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

So, by your own admission, a full quarter of the number of folk taking UK
amateur radio exams are youngsters. Yet you continue to depict the hobby as
failing to attract that demographic, and that efforts to pull them in are a
failure?

Spike, your axe must be pretty sharp by now what with all the grinding
you've been giving it.

--

[Rob]

Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
> On 18/07/2015 13:31, Rob wrote:
>> Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> This same assertion has been made for some decades in the UK, it being
>>> used to impose the current scheme that we enjoy (or suffer) here. The UK
>>> Society's own data show that attempts to attract 'the young' have been a
>>> failure. That is to say that young people, some as young as 5 years,
>>> have passed the lowest grade of licence, but the figures in the
>>> membership graph show the merest blip at the lower age ranges.
>
>> But did you attract "the young" with new equipment and new modes, as was
>> the topic of this thread, or did you try to attract them to the same
>> old stuff that you enjoyed yourself?
>
> Well, attracting the young by means of new things hasn't worked.
>
> The Society held a 'Buildathon' for the youngsters, using a Raspberry Pi
> to decode RTTY
>
> When asked about it later, the youngsters could only remember the RPi
>
> (Source: RSGB General Manager).

This sort of proves that you need something new to attract them.
A Raspberry Pi is that, RTTY isn't.

>> Besides, the availability of the internet and mobile phones has cut
>> away most of the exclusiveness of our hobby. 30 years ago, one could
>> still impress the visitor by talking to a far country or operating a
>> 2m handheld to talk to a fried 30km away via a repeater, but today
>> the youngsters ask "why don't you use Skype?".
>
> Do people use Skype to dial random numbers?

It is possible, but it looks like people not always want to talk to
a random person anyway. This might be caused by the fact that it is
now so easy to do so that it sometimes is associated with unwanted
side-effects.

>> This means that those that are mainly interested in communicating and
>> DX'ing are more harder to get interested, and what remains are those
>> who are interested in the raw technical aspects. But they have, at
>> least here, been a minority for a long time already.
>> (namely, since the large influx of ex-pirates in the 70's and 80's)
>
>> With only technically interested radio amateurs and no "communicators"
>> you probably have less than 10% left of the community as it is now.
>> And when looking at the band usage, the loss will be even more.
>
>> I think THAT is a reason why this Austrian/German group is trying to
>> develop new technology equipment that will do things that the youngsters
>> of today are accustomed to, instead of trying to get them interested
>> in oldfashioned radio that they have never grown up with.
>
> Well, it hasn't worked here, despite much money being thrown at it

The amount of money thrown at it probably is not a factor in the chance
of success, but only in the disappointment when there is no success.

[Rob]

Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
> A good friend of mine had just such an issue recently (although he isn't
> a tenant). He won in the end, or at least got permission with some
> restrictions he could accept.
>
> I think you are in either Oz or the US, where real estate is less of a
> premium. Here, most plots are much smaller than in either Oz or the US
> and problems with antennas can be more of an issue. As a result, huge
> antenna towers are far less common. Many amateurs use wire antennas for
> HF and small beams or 'white sticks' for VHF/UHF. These can generally be
> erected without permission or dispute.

No, I am in (the European part of) the Netherlands, and space is at
a premium here. But not only space, also lots of ruling and lots of
discussion about what would be reasonable to build. I have seen pictures
of amateur antennas that would certainly not be allowed here.

Also, lots of people don't like the outlook of having to go through
legal procedures for something that is supposed to be a hobby.

> Thankfully, those low power devices are 'unprotected' here. Plus, 70cm
> is allocated to the military and amateurs are secondary users.

It is the same here, but in our society there are not only the bare
rules but also acceptable behaviour. To cover that, there is a rule
in the license (I think it is still there) that the amateur station
should be operated "to the satisfaction of the Minister". This covers
situations where all the formal ruling is in favour of the amateur, but
the result is not reasonable when looking from an outside point of view.

When one amateur's operation causes trouble to an entire block of car
owners, the amateur will have to move even when the low power devices
are formally unprotected.

We already lost the part of 13cm that is used by WiFi for this same
reason.

[Brian Reay]

Rob <nom...@example.com> wrote:
> Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
>> On 18/07/2015 13:31, Rob wrote:
>>> Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> This same assertion has been made for some decades in the UK, it being
>>>> used to impose the current scheme that we enjoy (or suffer) here. The UK
>>>> Society's own data show that attempts to attract 'the young' have been a
>>>> failure. That is to say that young people, some as young as 5 years,
>>>> have passed the lowest grade of licence, but the figures in the
>>>> membership graph show the merest blip at the lower age ranges.
>>
>>> But did you attract "the young" with new equipment and new modes, as was
>>> the topic of this thread, or did you try to attract them to the same
>>> old stuff that you enjoyed yourself?
>>
>> Well, attracting the young by means of new things hasn't worked.
>>
>> The Society held a 'Buildathon' for the youngsters, using a Raspberry Pi
>> to decode RTTY
>>
>> When asked about it later, the youngsters could only remember the RPi
>>
>> (Source: RSGB General Manager).
>
> This sort of proves that you need something new to attract them.
> A Raspberry Pi is that, RTTY isn't.
>

It also depends on how it was presented. If the emphasis was on the R Pi,
then that would be remembered. It is all to easy for a presenter to allow
his personal interest dominate a presentation.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Indeed. I have an anecdote relevant to this discussion that occurred just
yesterday afternoon. Whilst sat in a traffic jam on the M2 on the way to
Seasalter for an afternoon out with my boys, I had a QSO through GB3IK. My
6 year old was listening quite intently, noticeably more interested than
other times I've been on the air in his presence. The reason? A couple of
weeks ago we started letting him play Minecraft "online" over Xbox Live,
which involves in-game chat with other players using a headset. He
absolutely loves talking to all these other kids all around the world! When
I finished my QSO, he said "It's just like the Xbox!" and, following a chat
about what one needs to do to get on the air, he said that he wants to get
a licence so he can do what I just had. We've spoken about radio before and
he's been interested when watching and listening, and really keen on simple
circuit building, but relating it to his Xbox hobby really seems to have
made the whole idea of radio much more vivid for him.

So, as Rob suggests above, there's many routes in to our hobby for the
young, some of them obvious, some unexpected. The key thing is making it
seem relevant to them and their life experiences.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

"Stephen Thomas Cole" <use...@stephenthomascole.com> wrote in message

news:mofddg$64k$2...@dont-email.me...

> STC // M0TEY // twitter.com/ukradioamateur
>

all the brats do here is use up my gigabits on minecraft or other rubbish
and some crap about ponies...fair slows down my newsgroup use....they don't
give a shit about HF/m or riding in a convertible...when I was their ages I
loved my uncle's mk 9 jaguar with its purple dash lights and listening to
people talking to each other from their homes on the S640 .....he also
taught me maths as he was a Dentist and quite intelligent and a modeller to
boot ...

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." <jim.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:cVHqx.19861$Wt5....@fx37.am4...

this will annoy sordid steve...he passed the RAE in about 1948 but never
went any further until he retired and took out a class B in the 80's
unfortunately but redeemed himself by passing the CW test shortly
after....he unfortunately got involved with a local club a member of which
borrowed his equipment much to my protestation because I knew the GAME**guy
was dodgy.... and didn't return it until the threat of legal action .....no
idea where all his equipment went when he died of fags in the 90's.... I
always suspected somebody from the club offered his widow £100 for it
all....as they do....

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." <jim.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:DgIqx.12024$_B6....@fx01.am4...

bloody speil chuckers..... GM4E**

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

> Indeed. I have an anecdote relevant to this discussion that occurred just
> yesterday afternoon. Whilst sat in a traffic jam on the M2 on the way to
> Seasalter for an afternoon out with my boys, I had a QSO through GB3IK. My
> 6 year old was listening quite intently, noticeably more interested than
> other times I've been on the air in his presence. The reason? A couple of
> weeks ago we started letting him play Minecraft "online" over Xbox Live,
> which involves in-game chat with other players using a headset. He
> absolutely loves talking to all these other kids all around the world!
> When
> I finished my QSO, he said "It's just like the Xbox!" and, following a
> chat
> about what one needs to do to get on the air, he said that he wants to get
> a licence so he can do what I just had. We've spoken about radio before
> and
> he's been interested when watching and listening, and really keen on
> simple
> circuit building, but relating it to his Xbox hobby really seems to have
> made the whole idea of radio much more vivid for him.
>

just as well you only get access to them on a Saturday then ......

[Spike]

On 19/07/2015 07:59, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
> "Stephen Thomas Cole" <use...@stephenthomascole.com> wrote

>> So, as Rob suggests above, there's many routes in to our hobby for the
>> young, some of them obvious, some unexpected. The key thing is making it
>> seem relevant to them and their life experiences.

>> STC // M0TEY // twitter.com/ukradioamateur

> all the brats do here is use up my gigabits on minecraft or other rubbish
> and some crap about ponies...fair slows down my newsgroup use....they don't
> give a shit about HF/m or riding in a convertible...when I was their ages I
> loved my uncle's mk 9 jaguar with its purple dash lights and listening to
> people talking to each other from their homes on the S640 .....he also
> taught me maths as he was a Dentist and quite intelligent and a modeller to
> boot ...

Steph's idea of combining X-box and AR might be an excellent idea for
using the wasted space above 30 MHz. It could be combined with the
otherwise-useless repeater network and kill two birds with one stone.

We'll need a textgenic name for it, something like 'X-box over Repeater
Equipment', better rendered as XBORE.

That should drag 'em in.

[Spike]

On 19/07/2015 09:52, Brian Reay wrote:

> The key thing with promoting anything is a positive attitude. If potential
> newcomers see, supposed, existing radio amateurs constantly bleating and
> whining about something or other (as the usual rejects are, I see repeaters
> get a mention this morning), it is hardly going to convince them 'this
> looks like fun'.

I think I'm with you on this one. Just look at all the negativity thrown
at the Class As by those who never had one. It's simply dreadful.
Whoever is going to take anything positive from such jealous whingers
and whiners?

Then there are those who continually refer to other Amateurs as scum,
perverts, the dregs, c-nts, etc. Who would want to associate with anyone
with such an attitude?

Then there are the people who have come up through the new scheme, and
don't know their sidetone from their sideband. Hardly a positive message
there either.

Yes, Amateur Radio needs a clean-up, starting with the groups like those
mentioned above.

> I certainly can't imagine taking up a hobby if I see it is full of whining old fools.

Or even whining NuHams fools. Need one say more?

[Jimbo ...]

"Brian Reay" <no...@m.com> wrote in message
news:197659043345898901...@news.eternal-september.org...

> A disgraceful and bogus claim.
>
> Especially as some have been banned from unsupervised contact with their
> daughter but you turn a blind eye, no matter how much you and your chums
> refuse to accept the evidence staring you in the face.
>
> You really are a nasty man Jim, driven by envy and your own failings.

just following your lead in slagging off people with marital
problems......what was your recent points?...kicked in the backside by the
wife...living alone in squalor ? ......anyway you and sordid stephen are the
experts on bogus claims so piss off you two faced scumbag....

[Jimbo ...]

> If potential
> newcomers see, supposed, existing radio amateurs constantly bleating and
> whining about something or other (as the usual rejects are, I see
> repeaters
> get a mention this morning), it is hardly going to convince them 'this
> looks like fun'.

fun with a bunch of wierdo's and perverts?.....

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Gotten to.

--

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:

>> Indeed. I have an anecdote relevant to this discussion that occurred just
>> yesterday afternoon. Whilst sat in a traffic jam on the M2 on the way to
>> Seasalter for an afternoon out with my boys, I had a QSO through GB3IK. My
>> 6 year old was listening quite intently, noticeably more interested than
>> other times I've been on the air in his presence. The reason? A couple of
>> weeks ago we started letting him play Minecraft "online" over Xbox Live,
>> which involves in-game chat with other players using a headset. He
>> absolutely loves talking to all these other kids all around the world! When
>> I finished my QSO, he said "It's just like the Xbox!" and, following a chat
>> about what one needs to do to get on the air, he said that he wants to get
>> a licence so he can do what I just had. We've spoken about radio before and
>> he's been interested when watching and listening, and really keen on simple
>> circuit building, but relating it to his Xbox hobby really seems to have
>> made the whole idea of radio much more vivid for him.
>>

>> So, as Rob suggests above, there's many routes in to our hobby for the
>> young, some of them obvious, some unexpected. The key thing is making it
>> seem relevant to them and their life experiences.
>
>

> The key thing with promoting anything is a positive attitude. If potential
> newcomers see, supposed, existing radio amateurs constantly bleating and
> whining about something or other (as the usual rejects are, I see repeaters
> get a mention this morning), it is hardly going to convince them 'this

> looks like fun'. I certainly can't imagine taking up a hobby if I see it

> is full of whining old fools.

Well, the whiniest of those fools all seem to be approaching that period of
life where their remaining time on Earth can quite reasonably be estimated
in months rather than years, so natural wastage will resolve a lot of the
problem quite soon.

> Of course, the truth is those who are constantly whining simply are not
> active in the hobby. They could switch their supposed interest to almost
> anything (as we know one does swap from time to time, thank heavens), and
> continue their whining without taking a breather.

They're only happy when they're moaning. It's quite perverse.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
> On 19/07/2015 07:59, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
>> "Stephen Thomas Cole" <use...@stephenthomascole.com> wrote
>
>>> So, as Rob suggests above, there's many routes in to our hobby for the
>>> young, some of them obvious, some unexpected. The key thing is making it
>>> seem relevant to them and their life experiences.
>
>>> STC // M0TEY // twitter.com/ukradioamateur
>
>> all the brats do here is use up my gigabits on minecraft or other rubbish
>> and some crap about ponies...fair slows down my newsgroup use....they don't
>> give a shit about HF/m or riding in a convertible...when I was their ages I
>> loved my uncle's mk 9 jaguar with its purple dash lights and listening to
>> people talking to each other from their homes on the S640 .....he also
>> taught me maths as he was a Dentist and quite intelligent and a modeller to
>> boot ...
>
> Steph's idea of combining X-box and AR might be an excellent idea for
> using the wasted space above 30 MHz. It could be combined with the
> otherwise-useless repeater network and kill two birds with one stone.
>

I did muse a while ago about whether amateur radio had ever been used in a
video game as a plot device. With the current consoles and their online
capabilities, there must be some way of tying ham radio, with actual access
to spectrum, together with some kind of MMO game. Imagine, Minecraft with a
digital interface to a chunk of spectrum, millions of kids exposed to the
hobby. Food for thought. Cue curmudgeons throwing a fit at the notion.

> We'll need a textgenic name for it, something like 'X-box over Repeater
> Equipment', better rendered as XBORE.
>
> That should drag 'em in.
>

The unofficial shorthand XBONE doesn't seem to have hurt the Xbox One's
sales, so why not!

--

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." <jim.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

You're deeply misinformed, OOR JUMMIE, as per. You must be confusing me
with Frank Hunter GI4NKB, he's the one with the failed marriage. For good
or ill, I've got my family 7 days a week.

[Jimbo ...]

"Stephen Thomas Cole" <use...@stephenthomascole.com> wrote in message
news:mog2lv$30t$5...@dont-email.me...

> "Jim GM4DHJ ..." <jim.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> Indeed. I have an anecdote relevant to this discussion that occurred
>>> just
>>> yesterday afternoon. Whilst sat in a traffic jam on the M2 on the way to
>>> Seasalter for an afternoon out with my boys, I had a QSO through GB3IK.
>>> My
>>> 6 year old was listening quite intently, noticeably more interested than
>>> other times I've been on the air in his presence. The reason? A couple
>>> of
>>> weeks ago we started letting him play Minecraft "online" over Xbox Live,
>>> which involves in-game chat with other players using a headset. He
>>> absolutely loves talking to all these other kids all around the world!
>>> When
>>> I finished my QSO, he said "It's just like the Xbox!" and, following a
>>> chat
>>> about what one needs to do to get on the air, he said that he wants to
>>> get
>>> a licence so he can do what I just had. We've spoken about radio before
>>> and
>>> he's been interested when watching and listening, and really keen on
>>> simple
>>> circuit building, but relating it to his Xbox hobby really seems to have
>>> made the whole idea of radio much more vivid for him.
>>>
>>
>> just as well you only get access to them on a Saturday then ......
>

> You're deeply misinformed, OOR JUMMIE, > STC // M0TEY //
> twitter.com/ukradioamateur

somebody that knows you told me .....tee hee

[Jimbo ...]

"Jimbo ..." <james.st...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:mog2cb$277$1...@dont-email.me...

...there you go brian I have just slagged them off...happy now?

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Well, they're misinformed too (assuming they exist, of course). Believe
whatever you like, OOR JUMMIE, it makes no odds to me.

--

[Jimbo in Hawick ...]

>> somebody that knows you told me .....tee hee
>
> Well, they're misinformed too (assuming they exist, of course).

you mean just like brian was misinformed about the masons rejecting me
?....... {assuming the brother existed, of course}

[Jimbo in Hawick ...]

> They're only happy when they're moaning. It's quite perverse.
>

> STC // M0TEY // twitter.com/ukradioamateur

...right up your street then?

[Brian Reay]

It will probably be the local source who fed lies to Evans & Co. You need
to remember that there is tremendous envy of the simple pleasures of having
a happy family life, something the usual rejects simply can't manage. Hence
the malicious nonsense which is family related.

[Jimbo in Hawick ...]

"Stephen Thomas Cole" <use...@stephenthomascole.com> wrote in message
news:mog2lv$30t$5...@dont-email.me...

> STC // M0TEY // twitter.com/ukradioamayeur

thou doth protest too much

[Jimbo in Hawick ...]

"Brian Reay" <no...@m.com> wrote in message

news:112943480945900236...@news.eternal-september.org...

there is no such person ...don't confabulate...what you say about people is
all fabricated so don't give me that crap .....

[Jimbo in Hawick ...]

"Jimbo in Hawick ..." <james.st...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:mog6ia$fnn$1...@dont-email.me...

I think I will have a further go at this lying carry on...mud sticks so
should be fun....stand by ......

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

I think OOR JUMMIE must be bored or something. Can't be much fun having
absolutely sod all going on in your life to occupy one's mind while you
count down the days.

--

[Custos Custodum]

Stephen Thomas Cole <use...@stephenthomascole.com> wrote in

news:mog8tv$olj$1...@dont-email.me:

He should take up a hobby.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Minecraft's pretty good fun. I burned two and a half hours on it last
night, building a fucking bridge.

--

[Roger Hayter]

In what anatomical or social circumstances is that necessary?

--
Roger Hayter

[Jimbo in Hawick ...]

"Stephen Thomas Cole" <use...@stephenthomascole.com> wrote in message

news:mog8tv$olj$1...@dont-email.me...

I know... just lying here doing nothing...I should be... out driving around
my beautiful country.....buying a new huge static caravan by the sea and
enjoying spending time with those on the farm.....buying a new cheap fun
FOUR seater convertible....buying loads of cheap computers......spending as
much time as I can tolerate with extended family who would have donated half
their liver to help me.......enjoying HF mobile and /p with my Quality class
A Licence I have held for 41 years .....enjoying my new FT450D and other
radios.......writing to the donor family.....being thankful for being alive
and not in that wheelchair being pushed around ASDA Govan like last year
...glad not to have yellow eyes and skin any more.....enjoying being height
and weight proportional and buying new clothes...enjoying all the good and
funny banter on here......making up with old local enemies .....enjoying
slagging off scumbags like yourself and brian........enjoying the given
chance to spend some of the tens of thousands I didn't know what to do
with...meeting up with all the guys and girls I used to work
with....enjoying looking out and giving away a load of components etc to
help the Glasgow radio club....maintaining my museum of old
radios...enjoying car boot sales....cycling again....looking for a new
motorbike...having no regrets and doing anything that pleases
me..............WAIT ...I'm do all that already !!!!...how long have I got
to go?...second week in September you say.......so much to do...so little
time...thank you for your concern.....

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Then why do you spend so much time on here acting like such a cunt?

>...how long have I got
> to go?...second week in September you say.......so much to do...so little
> time...thank you for your concern.....

No, second week of November.

--

[Jimbo in Hawick ...]

"Stephen Thomas Cole" <use...@stephenthomascole.com> wrote in message

news:moghsf$qab$3...@dont-email.me...

because you and brian have it coming to you .....and you could ask same
question of brian...he seems demented for some reason .....

[Jimbo in Hawick ...]

"Jimbo in Hawick ..." <james.st...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:mogi8o$rt8$1...@dont-email.me...

...and it pleases me greatly

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/56245944.jpg

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/18/185c22a030788498ea7332be38e72fda9b364f8a09a50852294dc70f6dee4706.jpg

[Jimbo in Hawick ...]

>>...how long have I got
>> to go?...second week in September you say.......so much to do...so little
>> time...thank you for your concern.....
>
> No, second week of November.
>

> STD // MUTLEY // twatter.com/ukradioamatere

Oh well a full year is better than nothing .....se la vie...or not ....

[Paul Cummins]

In article
<197659043345898901...@news.eternal-september.org>,

no...@m.com (Brian Reay) wrote:

> accept the evidence staring you in the face.

I haven;t seen any evidence of this sort, published by any reputable
source, or referenced by anyone in this newsfroup.

More importantly, since Family Court proceedings are held in private, you
can't have seen any such evidence either, unless you were a party to the
proceedings.

So, have you been banned from unsupervised access to your daughters?

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981
Please Help us dispose of unwanted virtual currency:
Bitcoin: 1LzAJBqzoaEudhsZ14W7YrdYSmLZ5m1seZ

[Paul Cummins]

In article <modshi$jgq$1...@dont-email.me>, no...@m.com (Brian Reay) wrote:

> Which is why, if we are to have retesting, Full licence holders
> should not only be retested but be expected to show they have
> progressed beyond the examination they passed.

Insert the word "car" in between full and licence, and consider how
ludicrous your suggestion is.

[Brian Reay]

Paul Cummins <agree2...@spam.vlaad.co.uk> wrote:
> In article
> <197659043345898901...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> no...@m.com (Brian Reay) wrote:
>
>> accept the evidence staring you in the face.
>
> I haven;t seen any evidence of this sort, published by any reputable
> source, or referenced by anyone in this newsfroup.
>
> More importantly, since Family Court proceedings are held in private, you
> can't have seen any such evidence either, unless you were a party to the
> proceedings.

Total nonsense, basic details are often published.

>
> So, have you been banned from unsupervised access to your daughters?

A totally malicious question, which you know fine well has no basis in
fact.

[Paul Cummins]

In article
<111693576945909712...@news.eternal-september.org>,

no...@m.com (Brian Reay) wrote:

> > More importantly, since Family Court proceedings are held in
> > private, you can't have seen any such evidence either, unless you
> > were a party to the proceedings.
>
> Total nonsense, basic details are often published.

Yes, with totally anonymised details so that a member of the public, such
as you, cannot possibly identify the parties involved.

> > So, have you been banned from unsupervised access to your
> > daughters?
>
> A totally malicious question, which you know fine well has no basis
> in fact.

How can a question be malicious?

So - do you have credible evidence that someone in this group has been
banned from unsupervised contact with their daughter?

Do you also have credible evidence that the person in question has a
daughter. Think carefully about this - someone who has for example, had a
daughter who died in childhood, or who was adopted or similar can quite
properly say that they don't have a daughter, and a member of the public
could not check the veracity of their claim without committing an
offence.

"I know a secret, Nah, nah na-nah, nah!"

[Jimbo in Hawick ...]

"Paul Cummins" <agree2...@spam.vlaad.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.2015072...@postmaster.cix.co.uk...

> In article
> <197659043345898901...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> no...@m.com (Brian Reay) wrote:
>
>> accept the evidence staring you in the face.
>
> I haven;t seen any evidence of this sort, published by any reputable
> source, or referenced by anyone in this newsfroup.
>
> More importantly, since Family Court proceedings are held in private, you
> can't have seen any such evidence either, unless you were a party to the
> proceedings.
>
> So, have you been banned from unsupervised access to your daughters?
>

shocking ...

[Jimbo in Hawick ...]

> "I know a secret, Nah, nah na-nah, nah!"
>

> Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead

FFS tell us ......

[Jimbo in Hawick ...]

> Which is why, if we are to have retesting, Full licence holders should
> not only be retested but be expected to show they have progressed beyond
> the examination they passed.
>
>

I would advocate kicking radio electronics and computer professionals out of
the hobby first ......

[Jimbo in Hawick ...]

> Some people seem to make a habit of that. As for those who whine about
> others who buy commercial radios had have a huge collection of
> themselves....

and it is professionals who award themselves the shack full of jap gear with
the excuse "I could build it but it is cheaper to buy it"...but you hobbysts
should be able to ....

[Spike]

On 18/07/2015 16:50, Brian Reay wrote:

> Which is why, if we are to have retesting, Full licence holders should
> not only be retested but be expected to show they have progressed beyond
> the examination they passed.

Well, I'm OK on the CW side, how about you?

--
Spike

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power" - Abraham Lincoln

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
> On 18/07/2015 16:50, Brian Reay wrote:
>
>> Which is why, if we are to have retesting, Full licence holders should
>> not only be retested but be expected to show they have progressed beyond
>> the examination they passed.
>
> Well, I'm OK on the CW side, how about you?

You're not that great on the World War 1 side, though...

--

[Spike]

On 20/07/2015 23:23, Brian Reay wrote:

> Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
>> On 18/07/2015 16:50, Brian Reay wrote:

>>> Which is why, if we are to have retesting, Full licence holders should
>>> not only be retested but be expected to show they have progressed beyond
>>> the examination they passed.

>> Well, I'm OK on the CW side, how about you?

> I did say licence holders, not Walter Mitty characters.

There's a logic flaw in that. You do struggle with English, don't you?

[Jimbo in Hawick ...]

"Spike" <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:d16cqe...@mid.individual.net...

> On 20/07/2015 23:23, Brian Reay wrote:
>> Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 18/07/2015 16:50, Brian Reay wrote:
>
>>>> Which is why, if we are to have retesting, Full licence holders should
>>>> not only be retested but be expected to show they have progressed
>>>> beyond
>>>> the examination they passed.
>
>>> Well, I'm OK on the CW side, how about you?
>
>> I did say licence holders, not Walter Mitty characters.
>
> There's a logic flaw in that. You do struggle with English, don't you?
>

he stuggles with being a human being ...