How do driving instructors make money?

[Mr Macaw]

I see driving instructors advertising silly cheap costs which amount to £10 for an hour's lesson. How on earth can this pay for fuel, wear and tear on the car, and make any profit whatsoever?

--
A dyslexic man walks into a bra.

[Tim Watts]

On 21/01/16 13:56, Mr Macaw wrote:
> I see driving instructors advertising silly cheap costs which amount to
> £10 for an hour's lesson. How on earth can this pay for fuel, wear and
> tear on the car, and make any profit whatsoever?
>

It was a tenner or near enough in 1985!!!

[thescullster]

On 21/01/2016 13:56, Mr Macaw wrote:
> I see driving instructors advertising silly cheap costs which amount to
> £10 for an hour's lesson. How on earth can this pay for fuel, wear and
> tear on the car, and make any profit whatsoever?
>

Presumably this is a loss leader for (say) 5 lessons and they are hoping
that this will attract punters who take 10 years and 500 lessons (at
much higher than initial rate) to pass?

Phil

[Mr Macaw]

Indeed, but they still have similar prices advertised on their cars. Is it subsidised perhaps? Why would the government subsidise driving lessons?

--
Never raise your hands to your kids.
It leaves your groin unprotected.

[Mr Macaw]

The ads I've seen are for a full set of 15 or 20 lessons. I don't know many folk needing more than that, and if they did, they could just take another "loss leader" from someone else!

--
Mary had a little skirt
With slits right up the sides
And everytime she crossed her legs
The boys could see her thighs

Mary had another skirt
With a slit right up the front
She never wore that one...

[newshound]

Mine were a fiver in 66 or 67. OK it was Jeff Allam's mum doing it for
pin money, for those who follow Touring Cars.

[Mr Macaw]

Did you get taught how to drive really really fast?

--
The dandelion swayed in the gentle breeze like an oscillating electric fan set on medium.

[dennis@home]

On 21/01/2016 15:06, Mr Macaw wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 14:51:33 -0000, Tim Watts <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 21/01/16 13:56, Mr Macaw wrote:
>>> I see driving instructors advertising silly cheap costs which amount to
>>> £10 for an hour's lesson. How on earth can this pay for fuel, wear and
>>> tear on the car, and make any profit whatsoever?
>>
>> It was a tenner or near enough in 1985!!!
>
> Indeed, but they still have similar prices advertised on their cars. Is
> it subsidised perhaps? Why would the government subsidise driving lessons?
>

Supply and demand, there are too many instructors.
They need CBT for cars.

[Mr Macaw]

Except I know of people who have continued with it for decades. If it wasn't profitable, they'd give up.

> They need CBT for cars.

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy?

--
If trains stop at train stations, what happens at workstations?

[Bob Eager]

CBT? Kinky.

[newshound]

On 21/01/2016 15:13, Mr Macaw wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 15:10:01 -0000, newshound
> <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> On 21/01/2016 14:51, Tim Watts wrote:
>>> On 21/01/16 13:56, Mr Macaw wrote:
>>>> I see driving instructors advertising silly cheap costs which amount to
>>>> £10 for an hour's lesson. How on earth can this pay for fuel, wear and
>>>> tear on the car, and make any profit whatsoever?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It was a tenner or near enough in 1985!!!
>>
>> Mine were a fiver in 66 or 67. OK it was Jeff Allam's mum doing it for
>> pin money, for those who follow Touring Cars.
>
> Did you get taught how to drive really really fast?
>

No, she was very sensible. I forget for the moment whether this was
before or after I had bent one of their sale cars trying to move it back
to the display position after the other partner (Mickie Fuller,
subsequently head of the Motor Traders' Association) left it blocking
the pumps.

[dennis@home]

balls?

[JNugent]

On 21/01/2016 13:56, Mr Macaw wrote:

> I see driving instructors advertising silly cheap costs which amount to
> £10 for an hour's lesson. How on earth can this pay for fuel, wear and
> tear on the car, and make any profit whatsoever?

They don't.

The industry relies upon a constant turnover of people desperate for a
job and seeing driving as a reasonable amenable option.

[JNugent]

On 21/01/2016 15:06, Mr Macaw wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 14:51:33 -0000, Tim Watts <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 21/01/16 13:56, Mr Macaw wrote:
>>> I see driving instructors advertising silly cheap costs which amount to
>>> £10 for an hour's lesson. How on earth can this pay for fuel, wear and
>>> tear on the car, and make any profit whatsoever?
>>
>> It was a tenner or near enough in 1985!!!
>
> Indeed, but they still have similar prices advertised on their cars. Is
> it subsidised perhaps? Why would the government subsidise driving lessons?

The government does not subsidise driving schools.

It might (and only might) pay for some lessons for employees, etc, but
only at the prevailing rate (or less).

[JNugent]

On 21/01/2016 15:39, Mr Macaw wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 15:09:47 -0000, dennis@home <den...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 21/01/2016 15:06, Mr Macaw wrote:
>>> On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 14:51:33 -0000, Tim Watts <tw_u...@dionic.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 21/01/16 13:56, Mr Macaw wrote:
>>>>> I see driving instructors advertising silly cheap costs which
>>>>> amount to
>>>>> £10 for an hour's lesson. How on earth can this pay for fuel, wear
>>>>> and
>>>>> tear on the car, and make any profit whatsoever?
>>>>
>>>> It was a tenner or near enough in 1985!!!
>>>
>>> Indeed, but they still have similar prices advertised on their cars. Is
>>> it subsidised perhaps? Why would the government subsidise driving
>>> lessons?
>>
>> Supply and demand, there are too many instructors.
>
> Except I know of people who have continued with it for decades. If it
> wasn't profitable, they'd give up.

They live modestly.

[JNugent]

£1.75 an hour around 1971/1972.

[Mr Macaw]

Among other thing.

--
Man who walk through turnstyle sideways going to bangkok!

[Mr Macaw]

Well I would think you'd spend £10 an hour on petrol and maintaining an abused car. So no money at all.

--
An expert is someone who takes a subject you understand and makes it sound confusing.

[Mr Macaw]

No halfpenny?

--
Everyone has a photographic memory, some just don't have film.

[Mr Macaw]

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 17:44:47 -0000, James Green <667...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> "Mr Macaw" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.yblc0...@red.lan...

>> I see driving instructors advertising silly cheap costs which amount to
>> £10 for an hour's lesson. How on earth can this pay for fuel, wear and
>> tear on the car, and make any profit whatsoever?
>

> That sort of driving doesn't use a lot of fuel and modern cars last very
> long
> time even with that sort of use even when they mostly do use new cars.

Ok, even if fully booked all day and spending only £3.50 an hour on petrol and maintenance, you'd make minimum wage. But then the prangs either cost you money or a high insurance premium.

--
A woman was standing at the edge of a cliff trying to get the nerve to jump off.
A homeless drunk stopped and mumbled, "If you're about to kill yourself, how about a shag before you go?"
The woman was angry and said, "No! Fuck off you filthy old bastard!"
The tramp turned to leave and said, "No problem, I'll just go and wait at the bottom then."

[Mr Macaw]

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 18:03:36 -0000, James Green <667...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> "JNugent" <jenni...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
> news:dgci6i...@mid.individual.net...

> Someone must be paying for all those cars and
> plenty of the instructors are instructors for decades.

I learnt to drive with the AA, which then gave me cheap breakdown cover, and I stayed with them for quite a while until I realised they were a ripoff. So that could be a loss leader, paid for by the AA, with my instructor just receiving a fixed wage. Mind you the number of breakdowns I had, I think I made them an enormous loss, especially towing a car form the South of France to Scotland and giving me a rental car for a couple of weeks.

--
A Catholic boy in confession says, “Bless me Father, I have sinned, I masturbated while thinking about my sister.”
“That's a disgrace,” said the priest, “especially when you have two gorgeous younger brothers.”

[Mr Macaw]

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 18:31:40 -0000, James Green <667...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> "Mr Macaw" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.ybloo...@red.lan...

> It clearly must be more complicated than that given
> that they have been doing that for decades now.

Who or What is Rod Speed?
Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet.

Why is Rod Speed worth a FAQ?

You need to brush up on your NetSpeak. Rod most certainly isn't
worth a FUQ in anybody's opinion except his own.

Rod certainly posts a lot. Why is that?

It relates back to the point about boosting his own self esteem by
what amounts to effectively having a wank in public. Rod's
personality, as exemplified by his posts, means he is practically
unemployable which means he sits around at home all day festering away
and getting worse and worse. This means he posts more and more try
and boost the old failing self esteem. Being unemployed also means he
as a lot of time on his hands to post in he first place.

But maybe Rod really is a very clever and knowledgable person?

Clever? His posts wouldn't support that theory. As far as being
knowledgable, well, Rod has posted to various aus newsgroups including
invest, comms, and politics. He has posted to all as a self professed
expert" and flames any and all who disagree with him. Logically,
here's no way any single individual could be more than a jack of all
trades across such a wide spread of subject matter.

But maybe Rod really is an expert in some areas?

Possibly. However, his "bedside manner" prevents him from being
taken seriously by most normal people. Also, he has damaged his
credibility in areas where he might know what he's on about by
shooting his self in the foot in areas where he does not. For
example, in the case of subject matter such as politics, even a view
held by Albert Einstein cannot be little more than an opinion and to
vociferously denigrate an opposing opinion is simply small mindedness
and bigotry, the kind of which Einstein himself fought against his
whole life.

What is Rod Speed's main modus operandi?

Simple! He shoots off a half brained opinion in response to any other
post and touts that opinion as fact. When challenged, he responds
with vociferous and rabid denigration. He has an instantly
recognisable set of schoolboy put downs limited pretty much to the
following: "Pathetic, Puerile, Little Boy, try harder, trivial, more
lies, gutless wonder, wanker, etc etc". The fact that Rod has been
unable to come up with any new insults says a lot about his outlook
and intelligence.

But why do so many people respond to Rod in turn?

It has to do with effrontery and a lack of logic. Most people who
post have some basis of reason for what they write and when Rod
retorts with his usual denigration and derision they respond
emotionally rather than logically. It's like a teacher in a class
room who has a misbehaving pupil. The teacher challenges the pupil to
explain himself and the student responds with "fuck off, Big Nose!"
Even thought the teacher has a fairly normal proboscis, he gets a dent
in his self-esteem and might resort to an emotional repsonse like
"yeah? well your dick wouldn't fill a pop rivet, punk", which merely
invites some oneupmanship from the naughty pupil. Of course, the
teacher should not have justified the initial comment with a
response, especially in front of the class. The correct response was
"please report to the headmaster's office right NOW!"

What is a "RodBot"?

Some respondents in aus.invest built a "vritual Rod" which was
indiscernable from the "real" Rod. Net users could enter an opinion
or even a fact and the RoDBot would tell them they were pathetic lying
schoolboys who should be able to do better or some equally pithy Rod
Speedism.

Are you saying that Rod Speed is a Troll?

You got it!

What is the best way to handle Rod Speed?

KillFile!

--
G.A.Y. - Got Aids Yet?

[Mr Macaw]

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 20:44:04 -0000, <damdu...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Seems a lot, I paid £3.50 an hour in 73 if two hours were booked or
> £4.00 for a single hour. Sparsely populated area on Devon Cornwall
> border so the independent instructor had a reasonable distance to
> travel. Car was a one year old Datsun Cherry and was in good
> condition.

Rubbish. A Datsun can't be in good condition.

--
The best engine in the world is the vagina. It can be started with one finger, self lubricates, takes any sized piston,
then every 4 weeks it does it's own oil change. It's just a pity that the management system is so fucking temperamental! -- Dr. Hermann Otto Kloepneckler, M.D., Ph.D.

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo <dgcjoh...@mid.individual.net>, James Green
<667...@gmail.com> escribió:

Fuck off, Rod.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

[Brian-Gaff]

Maybe they are money laundering?
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
"Mr Macaw" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.yblc0...@red.lan...

[Mr Macaw]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 05:31:34 -0000, Brian-Gaff <bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> Maybe they are money laundering?
> Brian

At £10 an hour, not much money goes through the wash.

--
Two Irish couples decided to swap partners for the night.
After 3 hours of amazing sex, Paddy says "I wonder how the girls are getting on".

[GB]

On 22/01/2016 05:31, Brian-Gaff wrote:
> Maybe they are money laundering?
> Brian
>

There is a simple answer to the OP's question.

First of all, I suspect most instructors charge more than £10/hr. For
example, BSM around here will do 2 hours at £14/hr, but then the price
goes up to £23/hr, which is a sustainable price (just).

Second, it's subsidised by the car manufacturers. Research has shown
that a lot of newly qualified drivers (particularly women) buy the same
model of car as they learned on. So, the manufacturers give driving
instructors huge discounts on the new car price. The instructors then
replace the cars at regular intervals, and they may even make a profit
on the ownership. It certainly reduces the cost that you would expect,
and it explains why driving instructors tend to have new cars.


"Vauxhall fleet sales director Maurice Howkins said: 'We are always
looking to show just how good our cars are – and what better way to do
that than showcase them in town and country, across the roads of Britain.'"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/motoring/article-1319649/Britains-biggest-driving-school-ditches-thousands-Fiat-500s-officials-complained-small.html

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <n7tm5e$cov$1...@dont-email.me>,

GB <NOTso...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Second, it's subsidised by the car manufacturers. Research has shown
> that a lot of newly qualified drivers (particularly women) buy the same
> model of car as they learned on.

I've heard that one before and am sceptic. How many new drivers buy a new
car? I'd say a tiny number. The vast majority have a banger as their first
car.
Could be some car makers like to see their products used by motoring
schools. But my guess it that puts off as many from buying that model as
do buy it.

--
*Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired.

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[GB]

On 22/01/2016 17:41, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <n7tm5e$cov$1...@dont-email.me>,
> GB <NOTso...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>> Second, it's subsidised by the car manufacturers. Research has shown
>> that a lot of newly qualified drivers (particularly women) buy the same
>> model of car as they learned on.
>
> I've heard that one before and am sceptic. How many new drivers buy a new
> car? I'd say a tiny number. The vast majority have a banger as their first
> car.
> Could be some car makers like to see their products used by motoring
> schools. But my guess it that puts off as many from buying that model as
> do buy it.
>

"The move is a blow to Vauxhall because, according to BSM, about 70% of
learners buy the same car model as they pass their test in"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8172233.stm


I'm not saying the 70% is true, just that BSM claim that it's true and
the car manufacturers seem to believe it.

Even if it's not true, it may be worth the manufacturers' time. Suppose
a typical instructor keeps the car for a year and I estimate he'll have
100 successful pupils during that time. (Assumes the instructor works 40
hours a week and the learners take 20 hours to qualify.) Suppose the
percentage who buy the same car is 7%, not 70%, that's still 7 cars sold
to the pupils. That's worth a really decent discount for the instructor.

These days, any newly qualified drivers may as well buy a decent car as
a banger. The cost of the insurance dwarfs the cost of the car, anyway.

[JNugent]

On 21/01/2016 18:03, James Green wrote:

> Someone must be paying for all those cars and
> plenty of the instructors are instructors for decades.

They have to be able to satisfice with a low income, perhaps as a
supplement to an occupational pension or a spouse's income. The expense
of the vehicle has to be met before any profit can be taken.

If it's their only income, they either have to make do with little or
else be the top scorer at the driving school, the one all the ladies ask
for. Only one per school can be that.

[Mr Macaw]

Even if you're top, you can only teach one person at a time, and at £10 an hour minus costs, I doubt that meets minimum wage.

--
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway

[Colonel Edmund J. Burke]

On 1/22/2016 10:50 AM, Jonno wrote:
>> These days, any newly qualified drivers may as well buy a decent car as
>> a banger. The cost of the insurance dwarfs the cost of the car, anyway.

Huh? Youse mean like bangers 'n mash, little bucky tooth feller?
LOLOL

[Tim Lamb]

In message <n7trb1$3gc$1...@dont-email.me>, GB <NOTso...@microsoft.com>
writes

Huh! Doesn't work. I haven't driven a Triumph Herald since 1960.

--
Tim Lamb

[NEMO]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 20:33:01 -0000, Jonno <m...@privacy.nob> wrote:

>Colonel Edmund J. Burke scribbled

>Oh look a fuckwit who can't get reply to a post properly. You'd do
>better to stick to wanking.

KKKoloon got nothing to wank WITH!

[Tony Bryer]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 18:13:20 +0000 Gb wrote :
> "The move is a blow to Vauxhall because, according to BSM, about 70% of
> learners buy the same car model as they pass their test in"
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8172233.stm
>
> I'm not saying the 70% is true, just that BSM claim that it's true and
> the car manufacturers seem to believe it.

I was always told - no reason to doubt - that one of the key reasons that
the Japanese makers got a foothold in the UK was by targetting driving
instructors. I learned (1970) on a Morris 1100 but a lot of instructors
where I lived then went over to Datsuns etc because they didn't break
down.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

[JNugent]

I don't see that as militating against what I said.

It rather seems to support it.

[Mr Macaw]

I was responding to your "they either have to make do with little or else be the top scorer at the driving school", which suggested that they don't have to make do with very little if they are the best.

--
The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese
-- Billy Wilson, Tough Guy, http://www.toughguy.co.uk

[Rod Speed]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:55460ab...@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <n7tm5e$cov$1...@dont-email.me>,
> GB <NOTso...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>> Second, it's subsidised by the car manufacturers. Research has shown
>> that a lot of newly qualified drivers (particularly women) buy the same
>> model of car as they learned on.
>
> I've heard that one before and am sceptic. How many new drivers buy a new
> car? I'd say a tiny number. The vast majority have a banger as their first
> car.
> Could be some car makers like to see their products used by motoring
> schools.

> But my guess it that puts off as many from buying that model as do buy it.

Why should it ?

[Rod Speed]

"JNugent" <jenni...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message

news:dgfanu...@mid.individual.net...

But others can still get plenty of the learners
that would prefer the top scorer but can't have
the top scorer because too many want to have
the top scorer instructing them.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <dgfroq...@mid.individual.net>,

Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've heard that one before and am sceptic. How many new drivers buy a new
> > car? I'd say a tiny number. The vast majority have a banger as their first
> > car.
> > Could be some car makers like to see their products used by motoring
> > schools.

> > But my guess it that puts off as many from buying that model as do buy it.

> Why should it ?

I'm sure you're perfectly happy with the sort of boring shopping trolley
that gets used by driving schools, but most youngsters aim a bit higher.

--
*Middle age is when work is a lot less fun - and fun a lot more work.

[Rod Speed]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message

news:55462fd...@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <dgfroq...@mid.individual.net>,
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I've heard that one before and am sceptic. How many new drivers buy a
>> > new
>> > car? I'd say a tiny number. The vast majority have a banger as their
>> > first
>> > car.
>> > Could be some car makers like to see their products used by motoring
>> > schools.
>
>> > But my guess it that puts off as many from buying that model as do buy
>> > it.
>
>> Why should it ?
>
> I'm sure you're perfectly happy with the sort of boring shopping trolley
> that gets used by driving schools, but most youngsters aim a bit higher.

Don’t believe that with many of the girls. In fact I know its not true given
what they drive.

[Zephirum]

On 21/01/2016 14:51, Tim Watts wrote:

> On 21/01/16 13:56, Mr Macaw wrote:
>> I see driving instructors advertising silly cheap costs which amount to
>> £10 for an hour's lesson. How on earth can this pay for fuel, wear and
>> tear on the car, and make any profit whatsoever?
>>
>

> It was a tenner or near enough in 1985!!!

There must be a catch in the small print?

--
Chris in Dublin but not Irish

[Mr Macaw]

Same ad on the back of the cars as I saw when I learnt to drive in 1997. There was no catch then. What's odd is the price hasn't risen much at all since then.

--
Some believe that the world converting to the metric system would greatly simplify our measures. But look what would really happen to our old cliches:
A miss is as good as 1.6 kilometres.
Put your best 0.3 of a meter forward.
Spare the 5.03 metres and spoil the child.
Twenty-eight grams of prevention is worth 453 grams of cure.
Give a man 2.5 centimetres and he'll take 1.6 kilometres.
Peter Piper picked 8.8 litres of pickled peppers.

[GB]

On 22/01/2016 20:17, Tim Lamb wrote:

>> These days, any newly qualified drivers may as well buy a decent car
>> as a banger. The cost of the insurance dwarfs the cost of the car,
>> anyway.
>
> Huh! Doesn't work. I haven't driven a Triumph Herald since 1960.
>

The Triumph Herald was a really nice car. :)

[Tim Lamb]

In message <n80mch$l96$1...@dont-email.me>, GB <NOTso...@microsoft.com>
writes

Certainly easy to drive with good all round visibility. There were a
couple of issues during the test however.... the road leading away from
the test centre was a slight down gradient. Driving school cars of the
day tended to have the engine tick over set high to minimise stalling.
Downhill in top gear we were quickly exceeding the 30mph limit! Also,
the gearbox had just had some attention. 1st. gear required two hands
which got some curious looks from the examiner.

--
Tim Lamb

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <3Grixyj8HJpWFwd$@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk>,

The linkage between gear lever and box had lots of bushes and washers etc
which wore out. At one time, there was an overhaul kit available with all
the wearing parts. Made a huge difference to the change quality.

The Vauxhall Viva HA was popular with many independant instructors long
past its sell by date. Very light steering and gearchange.

--
*A dog's not just for Christmas, it's alright on a Friday night too*

[NY]

"GB" <NOTso...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:n7tm5e$cov$1...@dont-email.me...

> Research has shown that a lot of newly qualified drivers (particularly
> women) buy the same model of car as they learned on. So, the manufacturers
> give driving instructors huge discounts on the new car price. The
> instructors then replace the cars at regular intervals, and they may even
> make a profit on the ownership. It certainly reduces the cost that you
> would expect, and it explains why driving instructors tend to have new
> cars.
>
>
> "Vauxhall fleet sales director Maurice Howkins said: 'We are always
> looking to show just how good our cars are – and what better way to do
> that than showcase them in town and country, across the roads of
> Britain.'"

It can work the opposite way, though.

I learned on a Honda Civic in 1980/81 - whichever version of the Civic was
current at that time. It had a horrible gearbox - very clunky and very
unforgiving if you tried to engage reverse (with the clutch down, naturally)
before the car had come to a complete rest, which made it pain if you were
alternating between first and reverse when doing a three-point turn,
especially if your instructor had chosen a very narrow road which even an
expert couldn't do in just three manoeuvres - in order to give you more
practice.

In between lessons I practiced on my mum's Renault 6 which had a
hockey-stick coming out of the dashboard (like the Citroen 2CV) which looked
weird but was actually very easy to use because the linkage was smooth and
there was a very large lateral play between the first/second and
third/fourth plane so I never hit fourth instead of second. I mentioned the
fact that the Renault was a bit more forgiving in letting you engage reverse
while still going forwards slightly or first while still going backwards
slightly and how this speeded up rapid manoeuvres when there were people
behind you waiting for you to finish. He said that Honda and Datsun were
known for that restriction in the gearbox.

After I'd passed I bought a Renault, partly because I heard of an old one
for sale at the garage when mum took her car to be serviced and partly
because I liked it more.

Interesting that the Honda reverse restriction persists to this day: all the
cars I've had (Renaults 5s, VW Golfs, Peugeot 306s/308s) have been fine but
when I started driving my girlfriend's Civic (a 2003 model) and when she
then replaced that with a Honda CR-V, I had to get used once again to coming
to a complete stop and waiting a second or so with the clutch down before I
could move the lever into reverse.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <usudnVa1Mps1dDnL...@brightview.co.uk>,

NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Interesting that the Honda reverse restriction persists to this day: all
> the cars I've had (Renaults 5s, VW Golfs, Peugeot 306s/308s) have been
> fine but when I started driving my girlfriend's Civic (a 2003 model)
> and when she then replaced that with a Honda CR-V, I had to get used
> once again to coming to a complete stop and waiting a second or so with
> the clutch down before I could move the lever into reverse.

Odd. Thought most decent manual boxes had synchromesh on reverse too these
days. To stop a crunch if you hurry into reverse. My brother's BMW has.
And it's quite old.

--
*A plateau is a high form of flattery*

[Tony Bryer]

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 08:57:32 +0000 Tim Lamb wrote :
> >The Triumph Herald was a really nice car. :)
>
> Certainly easy to drive with good all round visibility. There were a
> couple of issues during the test however.... the road leading away from
> the test centre was a slight down gradient. Driving school cars of the
> day tended to have the engine tick over set high to minimise stalling.
> Downhill in top gear we were quickly exceeding the 30mph limit! Also,
> the gearbox had just had some attention. 1st. gear required two hands
> which got some curious looks from the examiner.

My mum had one at the time I was learning to drive - I could not get on
with it so did nearly all my pre-test driving on the instructor's
1100/1300. Biggest issue IIRC was the gearing: it wouldn't run properly at
30 in top, also the very long (for size of car) bonnet.

[bm]

"Tony Bryer" <to...@delme.greentram.com> wrote in message
news:VA.00004f3...@delme.greentram.com...

You should try a Fiesta Ecoboost. It does a million mph per 1000 rpm. My 5th
gear is virtually brand new. Following 30mph pootlers i'm lucky to stay in
3rd. The turbo drops out below 1500 rpm.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <56a5ff94$0$6192$b1db1813$d2f0...@news.astraweb.com>,

bm <a...@b.com> wrote:
> > My mum had one at the time I was learning to drive - I could not get
> > on with it so did nearly all my pre-test driving on the instructor's
> > 1100/1300. Biggest issue IIRC was the gearing: it wouldn't run
> > properly at 30 in top, also the very long (for size of car) bonnet.

> You should try a Fiesta Ecoboost. It does a million mph per 1000 rpm. My
> 5th gear is virtually brand new. Following 30mph pootlers i'm lucky to
> stay in 3rd. The turbo drops out below 1500 rpm.

Makes sense to have as tall gearing as possible for motorway use. Provided
you don't mind changing gear.

My father had a 1200cc Herald for a while. It seemed perfectly happy at 30
mph in top.

--
*If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible?

[Tim Lamb]

In message <554785e...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes

>In article <56a5ff94$0$6192$b1db1813$d2f0...@news.astraweb.com>,
> bm <a...@b.com> wrote:
>> > My mum had one at the time I was learning to drive - I could not get
>> > on with it so did nearly all my pre-test driving on the instructor's
>> > 1100/1300. Biggest issue IIRC was the gearing: it wouldn't run
>> > properly at 30 in top, also the very long (for size of car) bonnet.
>
>> You should try a Fiesta Ecoboost. It does a million mph per 1000 rpm. My
>> 5th gear is virtually brand new. Following 30mph pootlers i'm lucky to
>> stay in 3rd. The turbo drops out below 1500 rpm.
>
>Makes sense to have as tall gearing as possible for motorway use. Provided
>you don't mind changing gear.

:-) I think they had just opened the M1 when I turned 17.

>
>My father had a 1200cc Herald for a while. It seemed perfectly happy at 30
>mph in top.

Apart from the one off issue with the gear selectors during the test, I
found it an easy vehicle to drive compared with the tractors I had been
driving since 13 (officially:-)
>

--
Tim Lamb

[Mr Macaw]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 16:45:01 -0000, GB <NOTso...@microsoft.com> wrote:

> On 22/01/2016 05:31, Brian-Gaff wrote:
>> Maybe they are money laundering?
>> Brian
>>
>
> There is a simple answer to the OP's question.
>
> First of all, I suspect most instructors charge more than £10/hr. For
> example, BSM around here will do 2 hours at £14/hr, but then the price
> goes up to £23/hr, which is a sustainable price (just).
>
> Second, it's subsidised by the car manufacturers. Research has shown

> that a lot of newly qualified drivers (particularly women) buy the same
> model of car as they learned on.

I've never heard of someone who's just passed their test buying a new car. They always get a used car or their parents' old car. A new car is far too expensive for someone that young, and too much possibility of expensive damage with their inevitable first crash, and because of that a much higher insurance premium.

--
Mother: "Why are you home from school so early?"
Son: "I was the only one who could answer my maths teacher's question."
Mother: "Oh, really? What was her question?
Son: "Who threw the paper aeroplane at me?"

[Mr Macaw]

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 15:01:47 -0000, NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> "GB" <NOTso...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:n7tm5e$cov$1...@dont-email.me...
>> Research has shown that a lot of newly qualified drivers (particularly
>> women) buy the same model of car as they learned on. So, the manufacturers
>> give driving instructors huge discounts on the new car price. The
>> instructors then replace the cars at regular intervals, and they may even
>> make a profit on the ownership. It certainly reduces the cost that you
>> would expect, and it explains why driving instructors tend to have new
>> cars.
>>
>>
>> "Vauxhall fleet sales director Maurice Howkins said: 'We are always
>> looking to show just how good our cars are – and what better way to do
>> that than showcase them in town and country, across the roads of
>> Britain.'"
>
> It can work the opposite way, though.
>
> I learned on a Honda Civic in 1980/81 - whichever version of the Civic was
> current at that time. It had a horrible gearbox - very clunky and very
> unforgiving if you tried to engage reverse (with the clutch down, naturally)
> before the car had come to a complete rest, which made it pain if you were
> alternating between first and reverse when doing a three-point turn,
> especially if your instructor had chosen a very narrow road which even an
> expert couldn't do in just three manoeuvres - in order to give you more
> practice.

Tighten the clutch cable. Synchromesh will make up for a clutch that's almost disengaged, but reverse never seems to be as good.

> In between lessons I practiced on my mum's Renault 6 which had a
> hockey-stick coming out of the dashboard (like the Citroen 2CV) which looked
> weird but was actually very easy to use because the linkage was smooth and
> there was a very large lateral play between the first/second and
> third/fourth plane so I never hit fourth instead of second. I mentioned the
> fact that the Renault was a bit more forgiving in letting you engage reverse
> while still going forwards slightly or first while still going backwards
> slightly and how this speeded up rapid manoeuvres when there were people
> behind you waiting for you to finish. He said that Honda and Datsun were
> known for that restriction in the gearbox.
>
> After I'd passed I bought a Renault, partly because I heard of an old one
> for sale at the garage when mum took her car to be serviced and partly
> because I liked it more.

I had a Honda automatic with a gear lever that came out of the steering column (and moved parallel to the indicator stalk). I found it terrible to use, it was impossible to move it only one notch.

--
Please tell your pants it's not polite to point.

[hgww]

"Mr Macaw" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.ydenb...@red.lan...

> On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 16:45:01 -0000, GB <NOTso...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>> On 22/01/2016 05:31, Brian-Gaff wrote:
>>> Maybe they are money laundering?
>>> Brian
>>>
>>
>> There is a simple answer to the OP's question.
>>
>> First of all, I suspect most instructors charge more than £10/hr. For
>> example, BSM around here will do 2 hours at £14/hr, but then the price
>> goes up to £23/hr, which is a sustainable price (just).
>>
>> Second, it's subsidised by the car manufacturers. Research has shown
>> that a lot of newly qualified drivers (particularly women) buy the same
>> model of car as they learned on.

> I've never heard of someone who's just passed their test buying a new car.

Then you need to get out more.

> They always get a used car or their parents' old car.

Not always.

> A new car is far too expensive for someone that young,

They don’t always pass the test when young.

> and too much possibility of expensive damage with their inevitable first
> crash,

Never had a first crash myself.

> and because of that a much higher insurance premium.

Irrelevant to what some do buy car wise after passing the test.