Violin/piano duet in A Very English Scandal -what is the piece?

[NY]

In episode 1 of A Very English Scandal, Hugh Grant as Jeremy Thorpe and
Patricia Hodge as his mother play a violin/piano duet to impress Thorpe's
lover Norman Scott, starting at 14m 58s into the programme.

I recognised the piece but I can't think what it was. Can anyone put me out
of my misery? iPlayer sometimes lists music used in programmes, but in the
case it doesn't mention the violin piece.

Apparently Hugh Grant didn't play the violin but learned the piece in a
remarkably short time, especially for the filming.

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

There is an application called Midomi that will identify any music or
song if you can whistle or sing it! https://www.midomi.com/

Steve

--
http://www.npsnn.com

[NY]

"Stephen Wolstenholme" <st...@easynn.com> wrote in message
news:7ijdgdhl4ortc6prl...@4ax.com...

I've tried that with various recordings, both one-off performances (as in
this case) and songs from published albums, and I've never managed to get it
recognise anything.

I think we may need a human to recognise it :-)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p065smy4/a-very-english-scandal-series-1-episode-1

[JNugent]

On 25/05/2018 11:33, Martin wrote:

> who lives in UK.

Here's the piece for anyone who cannot otherwise get it:

<https://vocaroo.com/i/s0rryDkfYU0o>

[NY]

"JNugent" <Jenni...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:fmt01v...@mid.individual.net...

>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p065smy4/a-very-english-scandal-series-1-episode-1
>>
>> who lives in UK.
>
> Here's the piece for anyone who cannot otherwise get it:
>
> <https://vocaroo.com/i/s0rryDkfYU0o>

Thanks. I was trying to find a way of uploading it to somewhere that was
publicly accessible.

There are various newspaper articles as advance publicity for the series
which mention that Hugh Grant couldn't play the violin and learned this
piece specially for the part. One article even mentions that it is a
virtuoso piece for highly skilled players. But nowhere is there mention of
what the title or composer is :-( And the subtitles just referred to it as
"a jaunty piece".

[JNugent]

OK...

I posted that URL in rec.music.classical and got this answer:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mag2mc5Vva0>

Jascha Heifetz plays Hora Staccato by Grigoraş Dinicu (Transcribed by
Heifetz). Accompanist: Emanuel Bay

Enjoy!

[NY]

"JNugent" <Jenni...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message

news:fmu41m...@mid.individual.net...

Thank you. I still think it's incredible that Hugh Grant had never played a
violin before and yet was able to get to this standard after only a few
months (if you believe the newspaper articles)/

[Max Demian]

He clearly would have been miming or the sound replaced post-production.

--
Max Demian

[st...@justnn.com]

On Sun, 27 May 2018 11:14:12 +0100, Max Demian
<max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>On 27/05/2018 09:36, NY wrote:
>> "JNugent" <Jenni...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>> news:fmu41m...@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 26/05/2018 13:08, NY wrote:
>
>>>> There are various newspaper articles as advance publicity for the series
>>>> which mention that Hugh Grant couldn't play the violin and learned this
>>>> piece specially for the part. One article even mentions that it is a
>>>> virtuoso piece for highly skilled players. But nowhere is there mention
>>>> of what the title or composer is :-(  And the subtitles just referred to
>>>> it as "a jaunty piece".
>>>
>>> OK...
>>>
>>> I posted that URL in rec.music.classical and got this answer:
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mag2mc5Vva0>
>>>

>>> Jascha Heifetz plays Hora Staccato by Grigora? Dinicu (Transcribed by

>>> Heifetz). Accompanist: Emanuel Bay
>>>
>>> Enjoy!
>
>> Thank you. I still think it's incredible that Hugh Grant had never
>> played a violin before and yet was able to get to this standard after
>> only a few months (if you believe the newspaper articles)/
>
>He clearly would have been miming or the sound replaced post-production.

That's probably the case but some people can learn fast. A girl I went
to school with learned to play the violin in about a month. She went
from awful noise to a pleasant tune. She gave up playing when she
married and had a child. Now her granddaughter plays very well. It
must be in the genes.

Steve

--
Neural Network Software http://www.npsnn.com
JustNN Just a neural network http://www.justnn.com
EasyNN-plus More than just a neural network http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN Prediction software http://www.swingnn.com

[michael adams]

"NY" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:KfKdnRtq6aqE85fG...@brightview.co.uk...

> Thank you. I still think it's incredible that Hugh Grant had never played a violin
> before and yet was able to get to this standard after only a few months (if you believe
> the newspaper articles)/

Possibly not if he only ever had to play the one piece.

In principle its no different to training a robot.

To train a robot so it was able to read any musical score and play that music
on a violin - even comparable with grade 1 the lowest standard would take
years. Assuming its were possible at all.

To train a robot to simply play one sequence of notes i.e one piece of music would
take a considerably shorter time Basically its simply a matter of training it to place
its fingers on particular place on the neck and move the bow across a particular
string or strings in a particular sequence.

If they trained Grant in blocks of ten notes at a time he has the advantage over the
robot as he can hear whether he's making roughly the right noises or not.

Then once he's note perfect they can start on the flourishes etc assuming there
are any.

This isn't to say that Grant hasn't since developed an interest in the violin.

But the only real test would be walk up to him and ask him to play something
different; and as with German spies in World War 2 see whether or not the
colour rapidly drains from his face.


michael adams

...





michael adams

...

[Dave W]

On Sun, 27 May 2018 11:14:12 +0100, Max Demian
<max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>On 27/05/2018 09:36, NY wrote:
>> "JNugent" <Jenni...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>> news:fmu41m...@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 26/05/2018 13:08, NY wrote:
>
>>>> There are various newspaper articles as advance publicity for the series
>>>> which mention that Hugh Grant couldn't play the violin and learned this
>>>> piece specially for the part. One article even mentions that it is a
>>>> virtuoso piece for highly skilled players. But nowhere is there mention
>>>> of what the title or composer is :-(  And the subtitles just referred to
>>>> it as "a jaunty piece".
>>>
>>> OK...
>>>
>>> I posted that URL in rec.music.classical and got this answer:
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mag2mc5Vva0>
>>>

>>> Jascha Heifetz plays Hora Staccato by Grigora? Dinicu (Transcribed by

>>> Heifetz). Accompanist: Emanuel Bay
>>>
>>> Enjoy!
>
>> Thank you. I still think it's incredible that Hugh Grant had never
>> played a violin before and yet was able to get to this standard after
>> only a few months (if you believe the newspaper articles)/
>
>He clearly would have been miming or the sound replaced post-production.

And not doing it very well - his fingers were hardly moving at all.
There were some close-up shots of someone doing better fingering.
--
Dave W

[JNugent]

Looking through my record collection database, it turns out that I
already had a copy of this piece, played by the Robert Farnon Orchestra.

[Harry Bloomfield]

NY expressed precisely :

> In episode 1 of A Very English Scandal, Hugh Grant as Jeremy Thorpe and
> Patricia Hodge as his mother play a violin/piano duet to impress Thorpe's
> lover Norman Scott, starting at 14m 58s into the programme.

I tried to watch it live, but the early scenes of kissing and cuddling
had me switch it off. I suspect for many that could have been taken
out. I remained curious about the story, so I tried again via BBCi,
skipping through those scenes and became quite hooked. The two episodes
since were very watchable and in places quite funny.

I don't remember ever having an actual National Insurance Card, but I
have seen people produce a credit card sized card over recent years -
what did I miss? All I ever needed was a NI number, which I could
easily get a reminder of and was all I ever needed.

[NY]

"Harry Bloomfield" <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:peius2$bv7$1...@dont-email.me...

Yes I'm not sure that I've ever had an actual card with the NI Number on,
though I suppose when you are first allocated an NI Number (which all of us
remember in the same way that soldiers remember their service number!) you
have to be informed of it, and I suppose at one time that notification may
have been on a little card.

But was it ever necessary to produce that card, eg when starting a new job?
I've only ever had to notify Personnel what the number is - but it may be
different for short-term cash-in-hand manual labour. I presume there was
more to Scott's story than simply that he had left the card behind when he
did moonlight flit from the stables: if he had simply lost the card, I
imagine it would be easy enough to get a replacement.

I remember the court case vaguely: the novelty of a politician being tried
for murder, the "bunnies can (and will) go to France" quote, the dead Great
Dane, the sight of Thorpe going into court with a trilby hat and a hangdog
expression.

Hugh Grant works very well as Thorpe. I've not seen the second episode yet,
but the first one was great, with the machiavellian plotting between Thorpe
and Bessell at the end - essentially "we can't scare him off, so we'll just
have to kill him - by any suitable means".

I'm not gay, and the thought of anal sex, whether gay or straight, make me
want to puke - but I still think it is tragic that Thorpe was living in less
enlightened times where what he did was initially illegal and even after it
was made legal, was still career-wrecking if word of it got out. Nowadays
it's nothing out of the ordinary.

[Harry Bloomfield]

NY brought next idea :

> Yes I'm not sure that I've ever had an actual card with the NI Number on,
> though I suppose when you are first allocated an NI Number (which all of us
> remember in the same way that soldiers remember their service number!) you
> have to be informed of it, and I suppose at one time that notification may
> have been on a little card.

From memory, all I needed was a P45 or my NI.

> Hugh Grant works very well as Thorpe. I've not seen the second episode yet,
> but the first one was great, with the machiavellian plotting between Thorpe
> and Bessell at the end - essentially "we can't scare him off, so we'll just
> have to kill him - by any suitable means".

I watched part of 1, all of 2 and 3. It seemed to get better and
funnier as it progressed. I don't remember any of it from back in the
day, apart from the name. Hugh Grant played the part and the mannerisms
well.

[JNugent]

It was a folded card (effectively with four pages) of about A4 size
folded down to A5. It functioned as a composite receipt for a years'
worth of National Insurance contributions.

The "front" had the citizen's details and the "inner pages" were
sectioned off with spaces for a weekly National Insurance stamp to be
affixed. Until completed in April and handed in to the Ministry of
Pensions (later, DHSS), it was the only prrof that the employee /
employer had paid the weekly flat-rate of National Insurance contributions.

They were in use (for the self-employed) right up into the mid-70s or
later. Their use for employees ceased in about 1974 when the flat rate
system was abolished. Thereafter, an employee leaving a job was no
longer presented with "his cards".

See:
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/National_Health_and_Pensions_Insurance_Contribution_Card_class_A_1942-43.jpg/1018px-National_Health_and_Pensions_Insurance_Contribution_Card_class_A_1942-43.jpg>

[JNugent]

On 29/05/2018 09:26, NY wrote:
> "Harry Bloomfield" <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:peius2$bv7$1...@dont-email.me...
>> NY expressed precisely :
>>> In episode 1 of A Very English Scandal, Hugh Grant as Jeremy Thorpe and
>>> Patricia Hodge as his mother play a violin/piano duet to impress
>>> Thorpe's
>>> lover Norman Scott, starting at 14m 58s into the programme.
>>
>> I tried to watch it live, but the early scenes of kissing and cuddling
>> had me switch it off. I suspect for many that could have been taken
>> out. I remained curious about the story, so I tried again via BBCi,
>> skipping through those scenes and became quite hooked. The two
>> episodes since were very watchable and in places quite funny.
>>
>> I don't remember ever having an actual National Insurance Card, but I
>> have seen people produce a credit card sized card over recent years -
>> what did I miss? All I ever needed was a NI number, which I could
>> easily get a reminder of and was all I ever needed.
>
> Yes I'm not sure that I've ever had an actual card with the NI Number
> on, though I suppose when you are first allocated an NI Number (which
> all of us remember in the same way that soldiers remember their service
> number!) you have to be informed of it, and I suppose at one time that
> notification may have been on a little card.

That's not what is meant in the programme.

What Scott is complaining about is that he cannot prove entitlement to
benefits because he has lost or been depriced of his NI card to which a
weekly National Insurance stamp (bought at the Post Office) had to be
affixed.

<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/National_Health_and_Pensions_Insurance_Contribution_Card_class_A_1942-43.jpg/1018px-National_Health_and_Pensions_Insurance_Contribution_Card_class_A_1942-43.jpg>

> But was it ever necessary to produce that card, eg when starting a new
> job? I've only ever had to notify Personnel what the number is - but it
> may be different for short-term cash-in-hand manual labour. I presume
> there was more to Scott's story than simply that he had left the card
> behind when he did moonlight flit from the stables: if he had simply
> lost the card, I imagine it would be easy enough to get a replacement.

Of that sort of card, of course (in fact, it isn't a necessary item -
you only need to know your NI number).

It's the proof of having paid contributions which is the issue, and that
can only be done by producing the stamp-card, with the all-important
stamps attached.

[JNugent]

On 29/05/2018 10:18, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> NY brought next idea :
>> Yes I'm not sure that I've ever had an actual card with the NI Number
>> on, though I suppose when you are first allocated an NI Number (which
>> all of us remember in the same way that soldiers remember their
>> service number!) you have to be informed of it, and I suppose at one
>> time that notification may have been on a little card.
>
> From memory, all I needed was a P45 or my NI.

...from the mid-1970s onward. Before that, it was different. The card
was an important document, acting as a record of the payment of weekly
contributions.

>> Hugh Grant works very well as Thorpe. I've not seen the second episode
>> yet, but the first one was great, with the machiavellian plotting
>> between Thorpe and Bessell at the end - essentially "we can't scare
>> him off, so we'll just have to kill him - by any suitable means".
>
> I watched part of 1, all of 2 and 3. It seemed to get better and funnier
> as it progressed. I don't remember any of it from back in the day, apart
> from the name. Hugh Grant played the part and the mannerisms well.

Is 3 available on iPlayer?

I thought only Episodes 1 and 2 had been broadcast.

[Max Demian]

I left my first job in 1978, so I've never seen one. There was a
"Numbercard" issued when people were first allocated their NI number:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance_number#Numbercards

Presumably that started after 1974. I've never had one, or been asked
for one by a new employer. They ask for your P45, which is issued by
your previous employer.

--
Max Demian

[JNugent]

It used to be the P45 *and* the NI card which the employer handed to an
person leaving the employment.

[Max Demian]

On 29/05/2018 08:18, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

> NY expressed precisely :
>> In episode 1 of A Very English Scandal, Hugh Grant as Jeremy Thorpe and
>> Patricia Hodge as his mother play a violin/piano duet to impress Thorpe's
>> lover Norman Scott, starting at 14m 58s into the programme.
>
> I tried to watch it live, but the early scenes of kissing and cuddling
> had me switch it off. I suspect for many that could have been taken out.
> I remained curious about the story, so I tried again via BBCi, skipping
> through those scenes and became quite hooked. The two episodes since
> were very watchable and in places quite funny.

If you don't want to watch the whole drama, there's a documentary
version on BBC Four on Sunday 3rd June at 10:00-11:00 pm:
http://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/gmj2rd/the-jeremy-thorpe-scandal/

--
Max Demian

[NY]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:8agqgdh80elrau8g3...@4ax.com...

>>They were in use (for the self-employed) right up into the mid-70s or
>>later. Their use for employees ceased in about 1974 when the flat rate
>>system was abolished. Thereafter, an employee leaving a job was no
>>longer presented with "his cards".
>>
>>See:
>><https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/National_Health_and_Pensions_Insurance_Contribution_Card_class_A_1942-43.jpg/1018px-National_Health_and_Pensions_Insurance_Contribution_Card_class_A_1942-43.jpg>
>

> I don't recall having one. I left UK in 1966. I had no problem getting a
> UK
> State pension just by referring to my NI number

I wonder if the dialogue should perhaps have explained the importance of a
National Insurance card that had to be stamped by the employer, for the
benefit of people like me (I started working in the mid 80s after
university) who are too young to have experienced the stamped-card system
and who thought an NI card was simply a card that stated your NI number.

I'm still not sure why Norman had so much difficulty getting a replacement
card. OK, he'd lose the record of the NI he'd paid so far that tax year, but
he would do so even if Jeremy Thorpe (rather than he himself) obtained a
replacement. I imagine there was some funny business going on with his
change of name.

[Harry Bloomfield]

JNugent pretended :

> Is 3 available on iPlayer?
>
> I thought only Episodes 1 and 2 had been broadcast.

Sorry, my mistake - only two have been shown so far. Both one and two
are available on iPlayer. Three is next Sunday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p065sk93

[Harry Bloomfield]

Max Demian formulated on Tuesday :

> If you don't want to watch the whole drama, there's a documentary version on
> BBC Four on Sunday 3rd June at 10:00-11:00 pm:
> http://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/gmj2rd/the-jeremy-thorpe-scandal/

Thanks..

[JNugent]

On 29/05/2018 14:56, Martin wrote:

> Germany had a silly system where people purchased stamps and stuck them on
> cards. We had a fire which burnt all the buildings to the ground. Our German
> secretary had her cards burnt and lost all her contributions, if one believed
> her. The German authorities didn't AFAR. Were the cards returned to the
> insurance people annually and the number of stamps credited in UK. I have no
> recollection of stamps on cards, but all my contributions were recorded going
> back to 1955, including holiday jobs when I was at school.

The National Insurance Card itself was merely a repository for purchased
National Insurance *stamps*, bought over the counter at the Post Ofice.
Employers and the self-employed bought many millions of them at the PO
every week from before WW2 right up to 1974 (for employers/employees)
and the late seventies or later for the slef-emplooyed.

So if you were working in the UK for any period between WW2 and 1966,
you will definitely have had a card with NI stamps on it even if you
never saw it (though you should have, when you left your job).

[JNugent]

On 30/05/2018 09:00, Martin wrote:

> My last employer in employed 4000 staff. Who had the job of licking and sticking
> the stamps.

If that's a question, the answer, probably, is the people doing the payroll.

Working out the correct gross by adding in bonus, overtime, etc,
calculating income tax, deducting the correct flat amount for the NI
stamp (plus the employer's part of it), etc. Taking a stamp out of the
company's stocks of them and addiung it to the employee's card. That
*is* how it was done. The stamp bit was a minor part of it.

This was before computers, of course. The job of payroll clerk was a
crucial one in a big company.

> How did the number of stamps on a card for a particular year get added to
> DSS/DHSS/DWP records.

That was done by MoP / DHSS after the card was submitted to them at the
end of the financial year. The function carried on for the sel-employed
until at least the late 1970s, possibly into the 1980s.

> After I left UK I continued making NI contributions
> without a card or stamps by making an annual bank transfer to DSS/DHSS/DWP.

In 1966? That was advanced for the time. It would have been either
Ministry of Pensions or DHSS (the latter was created in 1966, I think).
DSS and DWP were decades away.

[JNugent]

On 30/05/2018 14:12, Martin wrote:

> I made payments to all three. I paid DSS for 6 years retroactively. Somebody
> from Newcastle did a European road tour to persuade people who had stopped
> paying to buy themselves back in because it was a bargain. It really was a
> bargain.

DHSS changed to DSS when the Department of Health was changed into a
standalone ministry, circa 1986 or 1987.

The change from DSS to DWP occurred, from memory, around 2000.

[Calum]

On 29/05/2018 11:44, Max Demian wrote:

> I left my first job in 1978, so I've never seen one. There was a
> "Numbercard" issued when people were first allocated their NI number:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance_number#Numbercards

Yep, I have one of those, issued in 1987.

[Max Demian]

Have you ever shown it to a new employer, or been asked to?

Were you told what it was for when you got it?

--
Max Demian

[Calum]

On 31/05/2018 19:49, Max Demian wrote:
> On 31/05/2018 13:14, Calum wrote:
>> On 29/05/2018 11:44, Max Demian wrote:
>>> I left my first job in 1978, so I've never seen one. There was a
>>> "Numbercard" issued when people were first allocated their NI number:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance_number#Numbercards
>>
>> Yep, I have one of those, issued in 1987.
>
> Have you ever shown it to a new employer, or been asked to?

Nope, not that I recall. Haven't lived in the UK for a couple of
decades, mind you.

> Were you told what it was for when you got it?

I don't recall, probably still have the letter upstairs though! I
suspect it was nothing more exciting than "keep it safe in case anyone
ever asks to see it". (Which I have... it's been in my wallet every day
since...)

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 21:47:28 +0100, Calum
<com....@nospam.scottishwildcat> wrote:

>On 31/05/2018 19:49, Max Demian wrote:
>> On 31/05/2018 13:14, Calum wrote:
>>> On 29/05/2018 11:44, Max Demian wrote:
>>>> I left my first job in 1978, so I've never seen one. There was a
>>>> "Numbercard" issued when people were first allocated their NI number:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance_number#Numbercards
>>>
>>> Yep, I have one of those, issued in 1987.
>>
>> Have you ever shown it to a new employer, or been asked to?
>
>Nope, not that I recall. Haven't lived in the UK for a couple of
>decades, mind you.

I've change my job, location and employer about 10 times since I
started work. I've never been asked for my National Insurance number.
Now I'm retired with a pension I see my NI is printed on every monthly
pension statement.

--
http://www.npsnn.com

[JNugent]

The NI number was used on Inland Revenue documents from about the
mid-1970s, meaning that a P45 was all a new employer needed.

For the last twenty years or so, what used to be part of MoP / DHSS /
DSS and was later the Contributions Agency, has been a part of the
Revenue, and then more recently moved, with the Revenue, into HMRC. This
means that one department deals with both income tax and national
insurance contributions (and collection of both).

Going back to the TV drama, the importance of Scott's "National
Insurance cards" (not card in the singular) is only clearly understood
if the viewer appreciates the role played by the cards - and the
affixed, expensive NI stamps - in those days. It bears little
relationship to the collection of National Insurance contributions today.

[Andy Burns]

Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

> I've change my job, location and employer about 10 times since I
> started work. I've never been asked for my National Insurance number.

If you've passed on your P45 each time you moved jobs, nobody (other
than the first employer) would need to ask.

[Calum]

On 02/06/2018 09:29, Martin wrote:

> Are you making voluntary NI contributions?

I did for a few years, but haven't for a long time.

[Max Demian]

On 02/06/2018 15:43, Martin wrote:

> by back six years. It's a good investment. Each month I receive more than I paid
> in a year.

I did many years ago because of the years I spent at unis, but then they
decreased the number of years required from 44 (I think) to 30 so I
needn't have bothered. I only paid a few hundred so I don't mind. Some
moaned that they paid thousands needlessly.

--
Max Demian

[Max Demian]

On 03/06/2018 09:10, Martin wrote:

> It was 40 before it became 30.Anybody like me, who only had 39 when they
> retired, years after it became 30 gets a reduced pension. Where's the logic in
> that? In fact what was the logic in reducing it to 30?

You want logic in the UK state pension?

How about the way that recent retirees get a flat rate regardless of
earnings related contributions?

I don't know whether I'm better or worse off than I would have been if I
had been 65 a couple of years later (or whatever it was). I know that I
contracted out early and the extra private pension almost equals what I
would have got from the state if I hadn't.

Going back further, I don't quite understand why single women could
retire at 60 rather than 65 even though it has long been known that
women have a significantly longer life expectancy than men.

--
Max Demian

[Andy Burns]

Max Demian wrote:

> I did many years ago because of the years I spent at unis, but then they
> decreased the number of years required from 44 (I think) to 30 so I
> needn't have bothered. I only paid a few hundred so I don't mind. Some
> moaned that they paid thousands needlessly.

I have 2 "not full" years of contributions, which I suppose correspond
with my sandwich year crossing over tax years, and 35 "full years" which
vary from those showing 1 week's actual contribution to 83 weeks
contribution, neither of which I can understand the reason for.

I only *just* managed to identify myself sufficiently to the NI checking
website, my passport is expired more than 3 months so not acceptable,
instead they wanted gross income and NI figures from previous P60, which
is unfortunate as I gave myself a P45 instead of a P60 two years ago,
the NI figure isn't on a P45, but thankfully I could get it from the
payroll P11 report.

[JNugent]

On 03/06/2018 09:10, Martin wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 20:40:44 +0100, Max Demian <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>

> It was 40 before it became 30.Anybody like me, who only had 39 when they
> retired, years after it became 30 gets a reduced pension. Where's the logic in
> that? In fact what was the logic in reducing it to 30?

As far as I can see (especially with my 46+ years of contributions*),
there was no logic in that reduction, unless it was aimed at giving
"full" pensions to people who had neither earned them according to the
rules or ever expected to receive them (in full).

[* I had three years off as a student.]

[Mary Wolstenholme]

On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 09:50:20 +0100, Max Demian <max_d...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>Going back further, I don't quite understand why single women could
>retire at 60 rather than 65 even though it has long been known that
>women have a significantly longer life expectancy than men.

I think men and women retirement ages will be the same soon.

Mary

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 17:23:39 +0200, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

>If increasing retirement age continues the way it is going ATM most will die
>before reaching retirement age.

Yes, Mary and another of the women in my life are forever moaning
about having to work longer. I always have a laugh because I took
early retirement years ago. In reality I am working harder now than
before I retired (:

Steve

--
http://www.npsnn.com

[Max Demian]

I recall that the reason given was to reduce the number of people
eligible for means tested supplements to their pension.

--
Max Demian

[JNugent]

On 03/06/2018 14:44, Martin wrote:

> Did you have to continue contributing after had you 40 years of pension credit?

I'm not sure what you are asking.

I was in employment until two weeks before my 65th birthday. I had no
choice but to pay National Insurance, just as with Income Tax.

But as you imply, by the end of that period, I had paid quite a bit more
than I had needd to pay in for a full pension. Not, of course, that that
is the only reason for paying NI.

[JNugent]

Logically, that could only work by making Retirement Penion a high
enough amount that it is more than the means-tested Pension Credit rate.

And it isn't that, though I suppose it will take a few pensioners with
relatively low occupational pensions out of the means-tested domain by
increasing their overall income by a relatively few pounds a week.

[Harry Bloomfield]

Harry Bloomfield presented the following explanation :

I missed the first ten minutes, because Four seemed not to be on sat,
so I had to quickly tune in freeview to find it.

I got the impression that it had never been aired until now. It
comprised the old film, plus some new material, including what seemed a
recent interview with Scott. I had thought he had died, obviously not.