Can I Tow A Vehicle On A SORN?
Turk182
two.
The towed car had the reg plate of the towing car on display at the
rear. Could the towed car be on a SORN?
I have to get a SORN car to a garage for work to be carried out on the
engine head.
Thanks
Turk182
Mike P
No.
Is it otherwise road-legal? IE insured and MOT'd? If so, I'd just do it
anyway and plead lack of knowledge in the unlikely event you get pulled.
--
Mike P
Turk182
Mike, I couldn't get it to the booked MOT because the car overheated -
the head gasket (or worse) etc is suspected. On the last day of June
I decided to play the game and get a SORN.
As I don't know if the car can be economically repaired, I thought it
may be better to get a SORN straightaway, as I understood that you
can't get a SORN once you are into the next month following the tax
expiring, which it did at the end of June.
That's given me a problem, because I now need to work out how to get
it to the garage without paying for a truck - and it will have to be
repaired (if it can be) before I can even think about a new MOT.
The car is insured - but is it insured without an MOT?
I know the DVLA look for any reason to issue a fine - and I would
resent that, as I have no intention to cheat anyone.
Turk182
sid
Insurance is valid without MOT, assuming it is roadworthy in other
respects and you are not breaching any of the terms of the insurance,
like taking part in time trials for example, which is a common exclusion.
You can drive a car to and from MOT centre or to a place of repair for
purposes related directly to working on it for MOT.
You can't break your journey and start using the car for other things,
so no stopping off at the shops on the way there or the way back.
Turk182
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ah ..... that's important Sid, because on the DVLA site it said I
could only take the car to a pre-booked MOT appointment, and did not
say that I could take it to a garage to make it suitable for the MOT
(as far as I recall). So that's brilliant.
Thanks v much for that.
Turk182
sid
Well that was always the rule when I lived in GB, you can take it to a
garage to get MOT work done. It might help to arrange that with the
garage first, just in case you do get stopped by the cops, because
although you have insurance they will want to have an explanation why
you're driving with no MOT. A quick phone call to the garage if you're
stopped will save a lot of hassle.
If the vehicle is in any way unroadworthy it's still illegal to drive it
MOT or not. I don't think a blown head gasket counts, but you can't
usually drive very far anyway, you'll possibly get oil mixing with the
water in the waterjacket around the engine which will mess things up
even worse. At the very least it will cook the engine and on a modern
alloy engine the head has a tendency to warp when it's cooked, then it
needs skimmed flat again. If you're getting the garage to do it all for
you then that's probably no problem, but it will increase the cost.
FWIW they usually warp anyway. I much preferred the older cast iron
engines, they didn't warp. I used to be able to change a head gasket
myself without too much trouble even on a lorry. Modern engines are all
management chips and laptops to set them up.
Ste
>
> FWIW they usually warp anyway. I much preferred the older cast iron
> engines, they didn't warp.
And also did 8 miles to the gallon!
> I used to be able to change a head gasket
> myself without too much trouble even on a lorry. Modern engines are all
> management chips and laptops to set them up.
You can still change head gaskets no problem. You do not have to
reprogram the management system afterwards.
sid
> On Jul 7, 3:02 am, sid<bl...@blank.com> wrote:
>>
>> FWIW they usually warp anyway. I much preferred the older cast iron
>> engines, they didn't warp.
>
> And also did 8 miles to the gallon!
>
It was cheaper then too :) Put a couple of quid in and that was enough!
I had some very economical rigid trucks, I really liked Leylands.
OTOH a big tractor unit now still only does 8-9mpg average, and look at
the price. I was putting in �300-400 a day into a unit only a couple of
years ago, they must be costing �500+ now to run just in fuel for
similar work.
>
>> I used to be able to change a head gasket
>> myself without too much trouble even on a lorry. Modern engines are all
>> management chips and laptops to set them up.
>
> You can still change head gaskets no problem. You do not have to
> reprogram the management system afterwards.
I know, but there are so many ancillaries now to remove and so much
extra to do I just have not kept up to date.
Stripping an old Leyland diesel or a any old petrol engine with
distributor/points/spark plugs was simple enough. I'd hardly know where
to start now days.
I think the last head I did was a peugeot diesel sometime in the early
90s. That was about as awkward as I ever want, special tools needed (I
bodged with vice grips and allen keys), and just plain awkward. CAD has
meant now they can jam everything into smaller and smaller engine bays,
I'm not into scraping the skin off my knuckles all day just to fix
something, I like a bit of room.
Now I just have to pay someone else, except for the really simple stuff
like brakes and speedo cables, which I still do myself.
Steve Firth
> The towed car had the reg plate of the towing car on display at the
> rear. Could the towed car be on a SORN?
No, not legally.
> I have to get a SORN car to a garage for work to be carried out on the
> engine head.
Then it should go on a trailer.
Kim Bolton
Steve Firth wrote:
Not if the car would fail or had failed on emissions, the remedial
work needing to be performed on the cylinder-head. That would make the
journey necessary for work directly related to the MoT.
--
from
Kim Bolton
Ste
> On 07/07/11 04:19, Ste wrote:
>
> > On Jul 7, 3:02 am, sid<bl...@blank.com> wrote:
>
> >> FWIW they usually warp anyway. I much preferred the older cast iron
> >> engines, they didn't warp.
>
> > And also did 8 miles to the gallon!
>
> It was cheaper then too :) Put a couple of quid in and that was enough!
>
> I had some very economical rigid trucks, I really liked Leylands.
>
> OTOH a big tractor unit now still only does 8-9mpg average,
Except I was referring to *cars* doing 8mpg.
> >> I used to be able to change a head gasket
> >> myself without too much trouble even on a lorry. Modern engines are all
> >> management chips and laptops to set them up.
>
> > You can still change head gaskets no problem. You do not have to
> > reprogram the management system afterwards.
>
> I know, but there are so many ancillaries now to remove and so much
> extra to do I just have not kept up to date.
>
> Stripping an old Leyland diesel or a any old petrol engine with
> distributor/points/spark plugs was simple enough. I'd hardly know where
> to start now days.
>
> I think the last head I did was a peugeot diesel sometime in the early
> 90s. That was about as awkward as I ever want, special tools needed (I
> bodged with vice grips and allen keys), and just plain awkward.
As you say, it is often possible to bodge with makeshift tools. I have
no special (i.e. proprietary) tools. I have a full set of metric hex
sockets, a common range of Torx bits and sockets, a full set of
combination spanners, plus the usual miscellaneous tools (amongst
which I include an engine hoist and several jacks), and that will
allow you to do the vast majority of all mechanical repair tasks on
production cars.
> CAD has
> meant now they can jam everything into smaller and smaller engine bays,
> I'm not into scraping the skin off my knuckles all day just to fix
> something, I like a bit of room.
Agreed, lack of space is one of the main issues. Simple tasks can
require a lot of disassembly, which is often straightforward in
abstract with little room to go wrong, but can be time-consuming and
fiddly in practice.
However, I'd say by far the biggest problem these days is actually
fault-finding in the first place. Electronic faults can be murder to
track down - I've seen main dealers reduced to guessing at which part
to replace, in the case of intermittent faults.
> Now I just have to pay someone else, except for the really simple stuff
> like brakes and speedo cables, which I still do myself.
Several times in the past couple of years I've ended up doing work
myself, which I did not want to do, *precisely* because of the
difficulty in getting someone else to do it on a timetable to suit me!
sid
> On Jul 7, 6:50 am, sid<bl...@blank.com> wrote:
>> On 07/07/11 04:19, Ste wrote:
>>
>>> On Jul 7, 3:02 am, sid<bl...@blank.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> FWIW they usually warp anyway. I much preferred the older cast iron
>>>> engines, they didn't warp.
>>
>>> And also did 8 miles to the gallon!
>>
>> It was cheaper then too :) Put a couple of quid in and that was enough!
>>
>> I had some very economical rigid trucks, I really liked Leylands.
>>
>> OTOH a big tractor unit now still only does 8-9mpg average,
>
> Except I was referring to *cars* doing 8mpg.
>
>
>
They still do in the USA! I think I read the "humvee" (not the real one,
the "civillian" big thing that looks like one) does 6-7mpg. Shocking.
>
>>>> I used to be able to change a head gasket
>>>> myself without too much trouble even on a lorry. Modern engines are all
>>>> management chips and laptops to set them up.
>>
>>> You can still change head gaskets no problem. You do not have to
>>> reprogram the management system afterwards.
>>
>> I know, but there are so many ancillaries now to remove and so much
>> extra to do I just have not kept up to date.
>>
>> Stripping an old Leyland diesel or a any old petrol engine with
>> distributor/points/spark plugs was simple enough. I'd hardly know where
>> to start now days.
>>
>> I think the last head I did was a peugeot diesel sometime in the early
>> 90s. That was about as awkward as I ever want, special tools needed (I
>> bodged with vice grips and allen keys), and just plain awkward.
>
> As you say, it is often possible to bodge with makeshift tools. I have
> no special (i.e. proprietary) tools. I have a full set of metric hex
> sockets, a common range of Torx bits and sockets, a full set of
> combination spanners, plus the usual miscellaneous tools (amongst
> which I include an engine hoist and several jacks), and that will
> allow you to do the vast majority of all mechanical repair tasks on
> production cars.
>
>
An engine hoist and stand is something on my shopping list, but not for
a modern car. It will come in handy for older vehicles (I still have an
old 80s landrover) and I'm thinking of getting a motorbike.
I had hundred pounds worth of tools stolen some years back and I am
still replacing them. I'll probably have amassed all the tools I want by
the time I'm too old to bother using them lol
>
>> CAD has
>> meant now they can jam everything into smaller and smaller engine bays,
>> I'm not into scraping the skin off my knuckles all day just to fix
>> something, I like a bit of room.
>
> Agreed, lack of space is one of the main issues. Simple tasks can
> require a lot of disassembly, which is often straightforward in
> abstract with little room to go wrong, but can be time-consuming and
> fiddly in practice.
>
> However, I'd say by far the biggest problem these days is actually
> fault-finding in the first place. Electronic faults can be murder to
> track down - I've seen main dealers reduced to guessing at which part
> to replace, in the case of intermittent faults.
>
>
>
Electrics are another annoyance, the old style HT leads were easy to
test and repair, the new ones... some of them have breaks on purpose, so
a continuity test will not work, and sparking them off the engine cover
to test for a spark is a bit dangerous because the voltages now are so
much higher. They do give a lot less trouble than the old ones, and
there is no messing about setting a points gap any more, but instead of
just putting a new end on a lead now it's buy a whole set (unless you
have some spares knocking about). I don't like cars now using electronic
sensors for the speedo either, I've had to replace a few of those, I
don't think they are any better than the old style cable+cog. Probably
more accurate, but not more reliable.
>> Now I just have to pay someone else, except for the really simple stuff
>> like brakes and speedo cables, which I still do myself.
>
> Several times in the past couple of years I've ended up doing work
> myself, which I did not want to do, *precisely* because of the
> difficulty in getting someone else to do it on a timetable to suit me!
I like to do brakes myself, so I know they are done properly, and
because I am too tight to pay someone else for something that simple :)
That's one area that has really improved, I used to detest doing drum
brakes. Disks are so much easier.
sid
> In article<04e005ba-ba9c-489b...@w4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,> There is an easy way to solve head gasket issues - don't use them. Polish the head
> and block to mirror finish, then a bit more, than a bit more. Once you can shave
> your Martian cousin using the block as a mirror and the head as a light, bolt it
> back in place.
>
Or get a headless engine, leyland used to make one, I think it was
common in Guy tractor units.
They must have been interesting to work on, to say the least :-/
Ste
> On 07/07/11 11:17, Ste wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 7, 6:50 am, sid<bl...@blank.com> wrote:
> >> On 07/07/11 04:19, Ste wrote:
>
> >>> On Jul 7, 3:02 am, sid<bl...@blank.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> FWIW they usually warp anyway. I much preferred the older cast iron
> >>>> engines, they didn't warp.
>
> >>> And also did 8 miles to the gallon!
>
> >> It was cheaper then too :) Put a couple of quid in and that was enough!
>
> >> I had some very economical rigid trucks, I really liked Leylands.
>
> >> OTOH a big tractor unit now still only does 8-9mpg average,
>
> > Except I was referring to *cars* doing 8mpg.
>
> They still do in the USA! I think I read the "humvee" (not the real one,
> the "civillian" big thing that looks like one) does 6-7mpg. Shocking.
Very shocking, when as you say a loaded goods vehicle will generally
do better than that!
Lol. The 'shopping list' of tools simply never gets shorter.
I've often considered the issue of theft. I keep meaning to get around
to making an inventory and perhaps take photos, given that I have
thousands of pounds worth of tools (in various sets for various
trades), and it would be impossible to list them all from memory if I
had to claim on insurance and/or repurchase in the event of loss. If
they were for whatever reason lost, then I'd probably replace each set
as a whole, because I know from experience that with few tools to
start with, even the simplest of work can grind to a halt as each
problem is encountered and requires another tool to be purchased.
sid
> Lol. The 'shopping list' of tools simply never gets shorter.
>
> I've often considered the issue of theft. I keep meaning to get around
> to making an inventory and perhaps take photos, given that I have
> thousands of pounds worth of tools (in various sets for various
> trades), and it would be impossible to list them all from memory if I
> had to claim on insurance and/or repurchase in the event of loss. If
> they were for whatever reason lost, then I'd probably replace each set
> as a whole, because I know from experience that with few tools to
> start with, even the simplest of work can grind to a halt as each
> problem is encountered and requires another tool to be purchased.
I always find the most rarely used tools are the ones that end up being
needed the most and are difficult to do without. Balljoint splitters and
fan blade spanners used to be ones that I had to make sure I had with me
before going to do anything on anyone else's car. I suppose nobody needs
fanblade spanners now, it's all electric fans.
I was quite attached to some of the tools I had stolen, I had modified
some of them too. The replacements I have still don't feel right.
Steve Firth
The OP is asking about towing the vehicle, not about driving it to the
MoT station. If it is to be towed then it must be road legal, taxed and
insured. Since that is not possible then it must be trailered. If it's
driveable, and if it is, why is the OP wibbling about towing, then it
may be driven to a pre-booked appointement.
Mrcheerful
My dad said that he had a Bentley that was a one piece head/block. He got
it cheap as it had dropped a valve. He just used it with one cylinder out
for a while and then resold it.
Alex Heney
It has never strictly been the case in UK law.
You can take it to a garage for a pre-booked MOT.
If it fails, you can then take it home and back to a garage for the
repairs to be done. and it to be re-tested.
You cannot just drive it to a garage for repairs to be done prior to
any test.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
"I think not," said Descartes, and promptly disappeared.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom
Alex Heney
<snip>
>
>You can't break your journey and start using the car for other things,
>so no stopping off at the shops on the way there or the way back.
>
Yes you can.
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1997/612.html
This guy stopped on the way to buy petrol, and then again for
cigarettes.
The was convicted by magistrates, appealed to Crown Court and won. The
prosecution then appealed to the HoL and lost. (i.e. he was found not
guilty).
this was about no tax disc, but the exemption for that is the same as
for the lack of MOT certificate, so the verdict would be the same.
Alex Heney
No, you can only legally take it to a garage for a pre-booked MOT. Or
for repairs following a failed MOT.
You could arrange for the garage doing the pre-booked MOT to first
work on the cylinder head when it gets there, or even as part of the
repairs for a failed MOT (I would have thought it is bound to fail the
emissions test if it has a blown head gasket).
Alex Heney
It may be "brilliant", but unfortunately, it is wrong.
sid
If you know it is going to fail because it has a fault that is an MOT
failure, surely it is allowed to go to the garage first to be repaired?
That was my interpretation of the rules when I lived in GB anyway. Over
here it's that much more relaxed we don't tend to worry about it, if it
needs work we take it to get fixed. I think the police here are a bit
more able to use common sense about it.
OTOH the test itself here is very strict, so it's swings and roundabouts.
sid
I found this; http://www.nopenaltypoints.co.uk/NoMOTAndThePenalties.html
Not sure if that is accurate, but it says;
"What Happens if I Drive my Car Without an MOT?
If you do drive a vehicle without a valid MOT it will usually invalidate
your insurance, and if you have an accident or are stopped by the
police, you will be liable to face prosecution for MOT non-compliance.
The only time you may drive a car without a valid MOT is if you are
driving to a pre-arranged test appointment or to a garage that will
carry out repairs that are required for your vehicle to pass the MOT test. "
It does not say if it's allowed before the test, but I'm sure I remember
reading it on something official I got when in GB.
nimbu...@yahoo.co.uk
>
Insurance companies would like to do invalidate without MOT
AIUI Association of British Insurers however says NO
Mrcheerful
yes, you can. As long as it is pre booked.
I had exactly this situation. A long term customer had moved to a village
about 80 miles from me, he brought his car to me for repair and mot, it had
no mot or tax, he was stopped on the way to me and subsequently prosecuted,
on his day at court my letter was produced stating that he had booked the
vehicle with me for repair and mot along with details of the work necessary,
the case was dropped before it went in to the actual courtroom.
I only do repairs, I am not an MoT station.
Alex Heney
>On 07/07/11 22:42, Alex Heney wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 03:02:14 +0100, sid<bl...@blank.com> wrote:
>>
<snip>
>>>
>>> Well that was always the rule when I lived in GB, you can take it to a
>>> garage to get MOT work done.
>>
>> It has never strictly been the case in UK law.
>>
>> You can take it to a garage for a pre-booked MOT.
>>
>> If it fails, you can then take it home and back to a garage for the
>> repairs to be done. and it to be re-tested.
>>
>> You cannot just drive it to a garage for repairs to be done prior to
>> any test.
>>
>
>
>I found this; http://www.nopenaltypoints.co.uk/NoMOTAndThePenalties.html
>
>Not sure if that is accurate, but it says;
>
>"What Happens if I Drive my Car Without an MOT?
>If you do drive a vehicle without a valid MOT it will usually invalidate
>your insurance, and if you have an accident or are stopped by the
>police, you will be liable to face prosecution for MOT non-compliance.
>The only time you may drive a car without a valid MOT is if you are
>driving to a pre-arranged test appointment or to a garage that will
>carry out repairs that are required for your vehicle to pass the MOT test. "
>
>It does not say if it's allowed before the test, but I'm sure I remember
>reading it on something official I got when in GB.
It isn't accurate at all.
The very first sentence is just completely wrong, for a start (and has
been discussed on here quite often).
Before the test, you can of course drive it to a garage for a
pre-booked MOT as long as you like prior to that MOT, and if you then
get them to carry out work before they actually do the test, that
would be fine.
But what you certainly cannot do is just book it in for repairs to be
done which would be required for an MOT, and then drive it to the
garage for those repairs.
It must be to a garage where you have an MOT booked, or for the
purpose of repairing faults identified by an MOT.
Alex Heney
wrote:
>Alex Heney wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 03:02:14 +0100, sid <bl...@blank.com> wrote:
>>
<snip>
>>
>> It has never strictly been the case in UK law.
>>
>> You can take it to a garage for a pre-booked MOT.
>>
>> If it fails, you can then take it home and back to a garage for the
>> repairs to be done. and it to be re-tested.
>>
>> You cannot just drive it to a garage for repairs to be done prior to
>> any test.
>
>yes, you can. As long as it is pre booked.
>I had exactly this situation. A long term customer had moved to a village
>about 80 miles from me, he brought his car to me for repair and mot,
In which case, it isn't "exactly this situation". The "and MOT" makes
it legal.
> it had
>no mot or tax, he was stopped on the way to me and subsequently prosecuted,
>on his day at court my letter was produced stating that he had booked the
>vehicle with me for repair and mot along with details of the work necessary,
>the case was dropped before it went in to the actual courtroom.
>
>I only do repairs, I am not an MoT station.
>
So how could he book it into you for an MOT?
You said "he had booked the vehicle with me for repair and mot "
And if he hadn't had the "and MOT", then he would have been found
guilty.
sid
Some mechanics take the car to the test as well for you. It's quite
common over here (NI) anyway. You can book the test, leave the car with
the mechanic, and collect it having had the work done and him having
taken it to the test centre. Private garages here cannot do MOTs, only
government run test centres.
I'm sure some mechanics in GB do the same though, if they cannot MOT the
car in their own garage?
sid
Yes I thought the bit about insurance was not right, a few times I
checked my own insurance and never says anything about needing an MOT.
Mrcheerful
The CPS were quite happy.
Mrcheerful
exactly what I have done for the last thirty years. I actually like the
fact that someone independent has checked and approved the repairs that I
have done.
Turk182
>
> - Show quoted text -
One garage, without looking at it, has told me I could be in for at
least a grand. It's a V6 2.3. I was lied to by an Ebayer, and I
really wish I had not bought it. I do like the vehicle but I can't
throw much more money at it really. I would have to get the engine
sorted before it was MOT'd. So the whole things has got messy and I
could kick myself for falling for the seller's story.
Turk182
sid
Is it a ford? I used to run a few ford transits and could pick up
replacement petrol engines for them quite cheap (the old cross flow
pinto, they used in grannys and cortinas etc as well). some people still
buy v6 ford engines to stick in landrovers for time trials/off road
courses, a grand for a head gasket replacement seems way too expensive
to me.
Ste
> On Jul 7, 11:17 am, Ste <ste_ro...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Now I just have to pay someone else, except for the really simple stuff
> > > like brakes and speedo cables, which I still do myself.
>
> > Several times in the past couple of years I've ended up doing work
> > myself, which I did not want to do, *precisely* because of the
> > difficulty in getting someone else to do it on a timetable to suit me!
>
> least a grand. It's a V6 2.3. I was lied to by an Ebayer, and I
> really wish I had not bought it. I do like the vehicle but I can't
> throw much more money at it really. I would have to get the engine
> sorted before it was MOT'd. So the whole things has got messy and I
> could kick myself for falling for the seller's story.
Lol. What exactly was the story you were told?
And what is wrong with it? A thousand pounds is pretty extreme for any
repair.
Turk182
>
> - Show quoted text -
It's a Kia Sedona. The body has been loved, but I think the engine
fault has been with it for a while, because it has accumulated 7
owners - (nothing disclosed by seller who was very clever). He
claimed his wife didn't like Autos and that the reason the info on
Ebay was incomplete, was that he was no good at computers.
I should have also been warned by his conversational subject matter
when we were chatting. He was telling mre stories about all the
people that had cheated him in his life, and how when people owe him
money, he now sends some farm laboureres and builders to intimidate
them. I think this was a warning to me not to challenge him after the
sale!
The cars got 80,000 on, and I so wish I could get her to purr
properly, but the risk is, that if they take the heads off to do the
gaskets (it has two of each), that they might find something 'orrible
underneath and then I'm even worse off than I am just selling it as
faulty. I've alrewady been let down by Bosch, who charged me £400 for
changing exhaust sensors which made no difference. Another garage
spent time on it and pretended he had fixed it when he hadn't. I
guess this care is the ultimate problem car, that everybody passes on
to someone else - lying as they go. Unfortunately, I will not lie to
people - so I am the fall guy who may have to scrap it.
Turk182
sid
If they take the head off and find something worse, it will something
like a bent valve. Hardly expensive to replace the valve, not a big job
at all once the head is off. If it's damaged the top of the piston or
the bore then that could be very expensive, but IME of snapped timing
belts and bending a valve, the piston was always ok.
Valves themselves are cheap, under a tenner last time I bought one,
which was a while ago (about 4 or 5 years) but I doubt they have gone up
much. Kia parts I would expect to be on the cheaper end of the scale.
If the car is fairly new, it might be worth keeping it anyway. I
seriously doubt an engine from the scrapyard would be £1000. I've never
bought a Kia engine, but I have bought VW and Ford engines, and they
were always around 50 quid.
sid
PS above is for small petrol engines, I paid a bit more for diesels.
Turk182
>
> - Show quoted text -
Phew !!!! Thanks Sid. My worry, as I had to change the rad, was
that the monkey that sold it to me, had been topping up with water
during the very harsh winter, and the engine froze. I guess that will
be a few bucks if the engine has had that sort of stress?
Turk182
sid
that would normally mean a split radiator and sometimes if you're very
unlucky if can crack the block. I've had rads split before, last winter
was unusually cold, I had antifreeze in the car but only down to -15 or
so and it got below that here and the rad split. The block was ok. In
the days before expansion tanks I used to leave the radiator cap off
just in case, to give the coolant a bit of room. I don't know how
effective it is. My current car has an expansion tank, and the rad split
anyway.
If the block is cracked, it's usually not worth repairing, cheaper to
get another engine. Sometimes people used to weld cracks on engines they
had spent a lot on (say it was race prepared for example), but that's on
a cast iron block. On a modern alloy block I am not sure it's possible,
or if possible if it's cost effective. Welding cracked engine blocks is
pretty specialised stuff.
You really need to find out is it just the gasket or is the block
damaged as well.
If it's just a gasket and assuming the guy didn't snap the timing belt
and bent a valve, it's not a big fix at all. If it needs valve as well
it's probably still worth it.
If the block is cracked, I'd try and source a new engine, you might be
able to buy a 'short' engine, which is just the block/pistons/crank etc
complete with no ancillaries and then just use the head and ancillaries
from the engine you have. You may find it cheaper to buy a written off
car complete, take what you want for spares and weigh the rest in as
scrap when you're done. I don't know how much Kias go for. I know you
probably don't want to throw more money away on a lemon, but if the rest
of the car is good it might work out better than having a total loss
scrapping it.
There are scrapyards that specialise in certain kinds of engines, a
flick through the auto trader should turn up a few near you. They will
be able to give you a rough estimate over the phone, even if they don't
have one at the moment.
sid
PS most scrapyards I know have 2 different prices, one for
mechanics/people they know and one for everyone else. If you have a
mechanic you *trust* who is going to do the work, he will probably be
able to get a better price.
I used to help myself to small stuff from one of my regular scrapyards,
wheel nuts etc, I took a transit wiring loom into the office once and
they just laughed and said what have you got in your pocket, I had
£1.57, they gave me it for that. At that same scrapyard a clean cut
looking guy came in asking for wheel nuts and I could see them smirking,
no doubt he ended up paying a few quid for those each, where most people
just chucked them in the tool box.
As a very rough and probably out of date guide, a small petrol engine I
used to pay £50 for, manual gearboxes for medium sized ford, £30, a
bigger diesel like a transit about £150-£200 sometimes complete with
gearbox. Gearbox for transit £75, gearbox for a mercedes might be £150
on it's own. Transit wheels+tyres with a 3mm or 4 mm tread used to go
for a fiver, but I doubt I could get them at that price now.
Turk182
>
> - Show quoted text -
So, you certainly have given me a lot of tips. I appreciate all the
time - thanks Sid.
I'll let you know what happens.
Turk182
Ste
Even BMW engines can be had salvage for a few hundred pounds.
However, price tends to be very much a function of supply. I doubt a
Kia 2.3 V6 is a very common engine, and so any outright replacement is
likely to be fairly expensive. Many a time I've had to go crawling to
a main dealer when you find you need parts that are rarer than gold
dust.
Ste
As you say, the winter just gone was unusually cold, and I ended up
with a frozen block, due to incorrect mixture. Twice, as a matter of
fact, because I did not have the spare time to remedy it on the first
occasion, and gambled on the temperature not dropping that low again.
Fortunately though, nothing gave way, and it was just a case of
running the engine together with pouring boiling water over the block
and adding boiling water to the expansion tank and helping it
circulate.
> The block was ok. In
> the days before expansion tanks
I didn't realise there was ever a time when the volume of water was
not a function of temperature, obviating the need for some sort of
expansion vessel.
sid
I'm sure older vehicles I had didn't have an expansion tank, I remember
filling them through the radiator cap.
I gave the workshop manuals away with the trucks when I sold them, so I
can't go and look it up, but the little leylands I used to run didn't
have one.
Ste
Maybe you're right. I presume you didn't fill the system to the brim
(i.e. the radiator itself acted as an expansion tank)?
sid
No, as I remember the idea was to fill to the top of the internal fins,
and on the one I remember the most, that left a chamber at the top which
was about 4x3 inches at least inside (and the full width of the radiator).
They were all copper in those days too, but every modern engine I see
uses aluminium. I did have the water pump shaft snap on that truck and
the fan took a dive into the radiator. The whole lot had to come out.
IIRC I got the rad. brazed and pressure tested at a little workshop in a
village in Bucks. for about £20 which I thought was very reasonable. The
water pump+gasket wasn't expensive either.
The strangest coincidence was, when this happened and I was on the hard
shoulder wondering what to do next, a previous owner of the lorry who
had built the recovery body (he bought it as a box lorry) pulled up
behind me. It was him who put me onto the workshop and gave me a lift
there.
Turk182
>
> - Show quoted text -
You were lucky!
Turk182
Ste
I assume you're referring to the frozen block. There is no luck
involved with a Mondeo Zetec engine. In my experience that vintage of
engine seems to be extremely durable.
Charles Bryant
The radiator cap consisted of a lid connected by a strong spring to a
disc which sealed the opening. If the pressure grew too high, the
water and steam pushed the disc up against the force of the spring,
revealing a small hole in the side of the neck of the radiator,
through which the excess pressure vented.
sid
Yes, now you mention it I remember the hole, it usually had a small
tube attached so the water would pour down the side of the radiator. I
also remember if you used the wrong cap it could cause a lot of problems
because the engine might boil itself dry if the spring was too weak.
Ian Jackson
<bl...@blank.com> writes
I certainly recall cars not having coolant expansion chambers. My first
car with one was (I believe) 1976-ish.
I'm pretty sure that some of the old-type radiator caps had a
temperature marking on them - indicating when the wax-filled thermostat
would open, and potentially allow some water to escape. I think that 65C
was typical. However, sometimes the hobbyist car magazines of the day
(which suggested all sorts of 'great ways to enhance your car's
performance') suggested you fit a cap for a somewhat higher temperature
(obviously, the manufactures didn't know best). There was also often a
screw and locknut which allowed you to tweak the opening point.
--
Ian