Theft by Employee - Sentencing expectations
s d
In your opinion, do you think the judge will push for a custodial sentence?
If so:
Do I get sentenced on the same day as I'm pleading guilty?
Do I get sent straight from magistrates to prison?
Will a lawyer be of any benefit at the court to reduce my sentence?
If not:
What other outcomes are likely?
I'm in a bit of a mess really. I'm unsure if going to a solictor and getting representation would make me appear more guarded in court, but at the same time I'd be unsure of turning up before a judge alone.
Any advice would be much appreciated,
Regards.
Steve L
You *must* have a solicitor.
Rasta Pickles
> I was arrested for a theft totalling £12k from a multi-national retail company who net upwards of £12bn in profit anually, to which I plea guilty. Some of the funds were used to buy products from the company, and have been returned, as well as some funds being seized to the total sum of £9k. I have no previous convictions, I'm currently in university and I have the remaining £3k in funds to repay when ordered to do so.
>
How much of the 9k and 3k has been granted to you by taxpayers?
100% perchance?
One would hope a custodial sentence but I suspect you'll get a smack
on the wrists.
I believe it's otherwise known as Broken Britain.
Clive George
Forget appearing more guarded in court, you really need professional
advice at this sort of time after that sort of fuckup. The courts will
be able to provide you with a solicitor for your defence, which
encompasses both the guilty/not guilty bit and the sentencing if found
guilty.
Richard McKenzie
If you plead guilty, you will be sent to get a pre-sentance report
then you will have a sentance hearing. It would be best to get a
lawyer, just because you have a lawyer it does not convey anything
after all you have already pleaded guilty.
With regards to sentancing there are a number of factors including how
the judge is feeling that day. But i would say 50:50 chance of prison.
The lawyer would be able to help you .
Periander
news:1f77dc37957d40ba...@newspe.com:
> I was arrested for a theft totalling £12k
As an employee the breach of trust involved in the theft is
considerable.
> from a multi-national
> retail company who net upwards of £12bn in profit anually,
No doubt though if every one of their employees thought it ok to steal
thousands from them they wouldn't be turning in much of a profit - with
of course the consequent job losses and loss of capital to the
shareholders (which prevents investment in new business).
Your point about profit is irrelevant.
> to which I
> plea guilty.
Very sensible - by doing so at the first opportunity you have reduced
your sentence by a 1/3
> Some of the funds were used to buy products from the
> company, and have been returned,
Your first real mitigation.
You should speak with a solicitor in order that whatever mitigation you
have can be properly presented to the court.
As to sentence it's hard to judge without knowing all the facts - the
length of time you spent stealing for example is a big aggravating
factor. However as a very rough guide the starting point for a theft
employee where the theft amounts to over £2,000 but is below £20,000 is
18 weeks inside to that is added time for a long course of offending,
any attempt to throw suspicion on others, and particular circumstances
of discovery(which can count either way) and any especial trust placed
in you. Assuming no particular aggravating factor your early guilty plea
reduces the 18 weeks to 12.
To that we have the mitigation of some of the money being returned and
presumably the promise to return the outstanding amount at some stage.
We have your youth and the fact that you have no previous convictions.
Properly presented on the facts above your mitigation may be sufficient
for you to avoid prison entirely in which case you have to serve a
community order with a HIGH unpaid work requirement or a have a
suspended period of imprisonment (ie you walk free but the next time
you’re caught you will have to serve the imprisonment for this offence
as well as any other sentence you may be given). If on the other hand
the agravating circumstances stack up against you then you can expect up
to a year in prison.
But as I say without knowing the exact circumstances the above can only
serve as a rough guide. You should also bare in mind that you can kiss
the prospect of any employment in the future involving trust in to touch
for a long, long time.
--
Regards,
Periander
Cynic
>I'm in a bit of a mess really. I'm unsure if going to a solictor and getting representat=
>ion would make me appear more guarded in court, but at the same time I'd be unsure of tur=
>ning up before a judge alone.
The magistrate (if magistrates' court) or judge (if Crown court) will
*expect* you to have a solicitor to represent you, even if you are
pleading guilty. In fact, they will *prefer* that you have a
solicitor because it avoids them having to explain all the procedures
etc. to you. The solicitor will also know what to say in mitigation
that is pertinent, and what not to say because it is not pertinent
(and might get the mag/judge pissed off for wasting time).
Also, if you give your solicitor the phone number of a few family or
friends, they will normally be willing to contact them should you be
sent to prison to tell them what has happened to you and how they can
contact you.
As regards prison, your solicitor will be able to advise you on that
liklihood beforehand, which is another advantage for having one.
Usually a judge or magistrate will send you home for 2 to 4 weeks for
pre-sentence reports before sentencing you, and will also warn you if
you should expect a custodial sentence. But there is no guarantee -
they don't *have* to do that. A prison sentence is possible but not
inevitable for the crime you describe and though you will *probably*
have a few weeks after being convicted to prepare for it, it is best
to assume that you will be going to prison straight from court.
So assume you won't be going home for some months and put your affairs
in order accordingly. In particular don't drive to the court unless
you can arrange for someone to pick up your car if necessary.
Take to the court, and also to the sentence hearing if you get one:
1) A good book (there will be lots of very boring time hanging around
in small holding cells)
2) About £50 in cash - this will be taken from you if you go to
prison, but put into your prison account so you have something to buy
phone cards etc. with.
3) 2 or 3 packets of fags or tobacco if you smoke (the prison will
allow a certain maximum quantity)
4) Some envelopes and stamps (most prisons will allow you to use them)
Wear comfortable shoes. The prison will take your clothes and issue
you with *most* clothing, but you will quite possibly have to wear the
shoes you went to court in for your whole stay inside. Don't wear an
expensive ring or watch - prisons are full of thieves.
--
Cynic
R. Mark Clayton
"s d" <steve...@me.com> wrote in message
news:1f77dc37957d40ba...@newspe.com...
I was arrested for a theft totalling �12k from a multi-national retail
company who net upwards of �12bn in profit anually, to which I plea guilty.
Some of the funds were used to buy products from the company, and have been
returned, as well as some funds being seized to the total sum of �9k. I have
no previous convictions, I'm currently in university and I have the
remaining �3k in funds to repay when ordered to do so.
> In your opinion, do you think the judge will push for a custodial
> sentence?
Quite likely, but see below.
If so:
> Do I get sentenced on the same day as I'm pleading guilty?
No - sentence will be deferred for reports..
> Do I get sent straight from magistrates to prison?
Depends - if you plead guilty at mag for an offence of this magnitude, you
will probably be sentenced there (max six months), but you might be remanded
to Crown Court for sentence (max 7 years IIRC)
> Will a lawyer be of any benefit at the court to reduce my sentence?
Definitely!
If not:
What other outcomes are likely?
I'm in a bit of a mess really. I'm unsure if going to a solictor and getting
representation would make me appear more guarded in court, but at the same
time I'd be unsure of turning up before a judge alone.
Any advice would be much appreciated,
Regards.
url:http://myreader.co.uk/gp/1303-1.aspx
Turning to the detail: -
Assuming your assertions are all true (but you are dishonest remember) then
1. You are pleading guilty early (and I assume have admitted it to police).
This gets you a third discount off sentence.
2. You stole the money from the big company not its [little old lady]
customers or the public purse (e.g. in a Post Office)
This won't get you a discount, but stealing public money or from the
public especially vulnerable members (who might not have noticed you
re-swiping their credit cards) would be an aggravating factor.
3. You really don't have previous, especially for dishonesty.
4. You are at university and need to finish your course of study (statements
from tutors may help), although bear in mind if you are studying say law you
won't get to be a cop, lawyer etc.
5. Anything meretricious you have done voluntarily (e.g. driving a minibus
for the disabled, territorial army etc.) should probably be mentioned.
6. If you are young (likely) and the theft was opportunistic then this will
help mitigate. (OTOH a connived theft will count the other way).
7. That any goods stolen were for your own use and not for resale (because
you gave them back).
8. You are able to and DO make restitution of the rest of the money stolen.
As stated in another sub thread the tariff is from about three to six
months. With the guilty plea and a good spieler doing your mitigation (and
ideally prior negotiating restitution as part of the deal) then you will
probably end up at the top end of community punishment range (240 hours ~= 7
weeks unpaid work). OTOH if the bench / judge think you are pulling the
wool then look forward to the sound of a prison cell door clanging shut
behind you...
If you have trouble raising bail etc. you might get briefly remanded to
custody to show you just how unpleasant the inside of a prison is...
Things to avoid: -
Implying that because the victim was a big company it won't notice the loss
from your theft.
That it was less iniquitous because you bought company products (I suspect
you rang them through the till or delivered them to your premises without
paying).
Saying that you stole goods to sell off cheap to make up for your low wages.
Good luck - and oh yes DON'T do it again, you will definitely get porridge a
second time and lots of it.
NotMe
You should have got a lawyer there and then.
> In your opinion, do you think the judge will push for a custodial sentence?
The judge will decide, but it is the prosecution that would push for a
custodial.
> If so:
> Do I get sentenced on the same day as I'm pleading guilty?
Not always.
> Do I get sent straight from magistrates to prison?
Given the sum, the magistrate could send it to crown court.
> Will a lawyer be of any benefit at the court to reduce my sentence?
Get a lawyer, he will give excellent advice. If you are of previous
good character, he will tell you to get character references, these
could make a huge difference.
See if you can get legal aid, it sounds like you might be able to.
Don't turn up to court with 3 grand in a paper bag. Your lawyer will
inform the judge you have funds to pay the debt. this will help.
Get a lawyer before you turn up, I cannot emphasise this enough.
Steve Walker
This is very good advice.
Some of the other posts are not.
Get a lawyer.
absolutesnow....@gmail.com
The Todal
that may mean that the original poster will not see anything we post here.
The original poster needs to find a lawyer to represent him and would be
mad to try to manage without one. Obviously he is at risk of a gaol
sentence, and his future career is already blighted.
Those who want to post such questions without attracting a torrent of
abuse can try uk.legal.moderated which was set up with this sort of
scenario in mind.
Robbie
original posting date...
--
Robbie
GB
>> retail company who net upwards of £12bn in profit anually
> the garbage can. I just found an employee who stole over £60k in
> merchandise from our company and I hope they do the same to him. It
> makes no difference how profitable the company is. It is pathetic
> that you are posting this as your excuse. You deserve everything
> coming your way.
one of the criteria is (rightly IMHO) the foreseeable effect on the
victim. In this particular case, the effect is minimal. Contrast that
with a corner shop, where the £12k theft could cause major problems.
AndyW
he may just have been sentenced by now.
Andy
The Todal
>>
>>
>> It looks as if you are replying to a post from a different forum and
>> that may mean that the original poster will not see anything we post
>> here.
>>
>> The original poster needs to find a lawyer to represent him and would
>> be mad to try to manage without one. Obviously he is at risk of a gaol
>> sentence, and his future career is already blighted.
>>
>> Those who want to post such questions without attracting a torrent of
>> abuse can try uk.legal.moderated which was set up with this sort of
>> scenario in mind.
>
> He's also replying to a post from 21 month ago, if you look at the
> original posting date...
>
recommending he use a solicitor. I wonder what happened to him and
whether he avoided a prison sentence.
R. Mark Clayton
<absolutesnow....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a7f94682-aacd-4c07...@googlegroups.com...
> I was arrested for a theft totalling £12k from a multi-national retail
> company who net upwards of £12bn in profit anually, to which I plea
> guilty. Some of the funds were used to buy products from the company, and
> have been returned, as well as some funds being seized to the total sum of
> £9k. I have no previous convictions, I'm currently in university and I
> have the remaining £3k in funds to repay when ordered to do so.
>
> In your opinion, do you think the judge will push for a custodial
> sentence?
>
> If so:
> Do I get sentenced on the same day as I'm pleading guilty?
> Do I get sent straight from magistrates to prison?
months (England (two years Scotland)) you will be committed to Crown Court.
> Will a lawyer be of any benefit at the court to reduce my sentence?
defendant's parents abandoned him as a child), whereas if you do it, you
might just be lying some more in mitigiation. A lawyer will also know which
buttons to push to get the sentence reduced and demean you - "my client is a
weak willed individual, who only stole all this money because he could and
wanted revenge on his manager" - you aren't going to say that are you?
>
> If not:
> What other outcomes are likely?
some combination thereof.
Hand cut off (Saudi)
>
> I'm in a bit of a mess really. I'm unsure if going to a solictor and
> getting representation would make me appear more guarded in court, but at
> the same time I'd be unsure of turning up before a judge alone.
>
> Any advice would be much appreciated,
>
> Regards.
>
> url:http://myreader.co.uk/gp/1303-1.aspx
:I think people like you should be locked away and the keys tossed in the
garbage can. I just found an employee who stole over £60k in merchandise
from our company and I hope they do the same to him. It makes no difference
how profitable the company is. It is pathetic that you are posting this as
your excuse. You deserve everything coming your way. You knew it was wrong
to steal. You are at university so, therefore, presumably have a
functioning brain? How can we have a civilised functioning society if scum
like you take every opportunity to rip society off. I hope you are crapping
your pants.
shop) he should be out by now.
Steve Firth
[snip]
> He's also replying to a post from 21 month ago, if you look at the original posting date...
--
<•DarWin><|
_/ _/
Steve Firth
[snip]
> Those who want to post such questions without attracting a torrent of
> abuse can try uk.legal.moderated which was set up with this sort of scenario in mind.
correct the events are career limiting for a student - one hopes the OP was
not studying law or hoping for a career in the civil service. OTOH I've
known of offenders who have bounced back from worse. That nice Mr Fry seems
to do OK despite having been a very naughty boy in the past.
With the right attitude and a bit of help it's not an irrecoverable
position.
--
<•DarWin><|
_/ _/
shori...@gmail.com
R. Mark Clayton
> When would something like this be marked as spent?
Just a fine - 5 years
to
over 30months in prison - never
It will come up on DBS (formerly CRB) checks and for ever in enhanced ones.
Something I missed in my original responses is the custodial will be less likely if the theft was the result of single 'spur of the moment' theft - e.g. grabbing a pile of foreign currency or a single BACS transfer. OTOH if it is the result of a long, calculated and intentional deception custody will be more likely.
Arguing that the victim was a multi-billion company will be counter productive the judge will know that large frauds lead to other employees be laid off.
Paul Cummins
> Just a fine - 5 years
> to
> over 30months in prison - never
Now, a fine is spent in 1 year, and a Prison Sentence of less than 48
months is spent 7 years after the sentence end date (the end of licence).
--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
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