Car litter bug - how to report?

[eastender]

I'm sure we've all seen this: The other day I was driving slowly coming
up to some lights alongside a couple who proceeded to lob a big bag of
fast food waste out the window. I waved angily at them and got the full
v-sign treatment back. They then drove in front and at the lights I
took a picture of their numberplate.

Is there any prospect of reporting people like this? This was at a
junction on the A12 by the Blackwall Tunnel. I presume it may only be
the local authority that's interested.

E.

[lordgnome]

Well worth a try, in any event.

Les.

[Nightjar <"cpb"@]

On 02/04/2015 13:01, eastender wrote:

ISTR that the Keep Britain Tidy web site has a littering reporting section.

One of the local authorities near me has put up signs giving a phone
number to report littering. Very cleverly, they put them near places
like roundabouts, where you don't have time to read them properly or
make a note of the phone number.


--
Colin Bignell

[Bod]

The trouble with that, it's only one word against the other.
They will obviously deny the deed. There is no proof.
Now if there was an *in car video* of them actually throwing the stuff
out of the window, that would make a massive boost to the veracity of
the report.

[RJH]

On 02/04/2015 16:29, lordgnome wrote:

From uk.rec.cycling:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3007558/Cyclist-threatened-assault-charge-picks-driver-s-litter-rides-throw-car-window.html

Seems the police weren't that interested.

--
Cheers, Rob

[Steve Walker]

On 02/04/2015 17:20, RJH wrote:

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3007558/Cyclist-threatened-assault-charge-picks-driver-s-litter-rides-throw-car-window.html

> Seems the police weren't that interested.

"A cyclist claims he was warned by police he could face an assault
charge after he saw a driver throw litter out of his car so threw it
back through his window.

The rider filmed the moment he confronted the motorist, who got out of
his vehicle and asked him for a fight in Dumbarton, near Glasgow.

In the footage the cyclist tells the driver, who is wearing a white cap
and white t-shirt, 'here's your stupid litter back', before throwing the
cup into the man's Vauxhall Corsa....

... He said: 'I just thought for some reason in my head I should be
confronting this person. I wasn't intending it in a very aggressive way'."

Look out, here comes the Lycra Vigilante Eco Warrior...

[Neil Williams]

On 2015-04-02 21:24:45 +0000, Steve Walker said:

> "A cyclist claims he was warned by police he could face an assault
> charge after he saw a driver throw litter out of his car so threw it
> back through his window.
>
> The rider filmed the moment he confronted the motorist, who got out of
> his vehicle and asked him for a fight in Dumbarton, near Glasgow.
>
> In the footage the cyclist tells the driver, who is wearing a white cap
> and white t-shirt, 'here's your stupid litter back', before throwing
> the cup into the man's Vauxhall Corsa....
>
> ... He said: 'I just thought for some reason in my head I should be
> confronting this person. I wasn't intending it in a very aggressive
> way'."
>
> Look out, here comes the Lycra Vigilante Eco Warrior...

I'm not a fan of militant cyclists, but I hate littering. So provided
all he did was return the litter to its owner's vehicle I really don't
see an issue, and I think the Police really got this one wrong.

Even if you take "two wrongs don't make a right" as a strict line, both
should be charged with the relevant offences.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

[zaax]

Not unless you have camera footage

[Nightjar <"cpb"@]

On 03/04/2015 08:04, Neil Williams wrote:
....

> I'm not a fan of militant cyclists, but I hate littering. So provided
> all he did was return the litter to its owner's vehicle I really don't

> see an issue, and I think the Police really got this one wrong...

I suspect they were trying to ensure that the cyclist didn't do it
again. Next time the driver might not simply stop at only offering to
fight him.


--
Colin Bignell

[Fredxxx]

I've often thought a database of events like this should be kept by the
council, where 2 or 3 independent witnesses independently verify a
driver or person's littering behaviour should then lead to a successful
prosecution.

[Bod]

That's a dangerous route to take. It would be easy for 2 or 3 people to
collude against someone they didn't like and get them prosecuted for
something that they haven't done, just get revenge etc.
One MUST have proof.

[David L. Martel]

Bod,

The testimony of multiple witnesses is proof. You seem to think that some
video is proof but testimony isn't. What leads you to this?

Dave M.

[Fredxxx]

I'm quite aware of that, that's why I would require people who are
entirely independent, where they would have to state this fact, in
written form.

Also perjury is a serious offence leading to many weeks in gaol, whereas
littering isn't and would be met with a minor fine or fixed penalty notice.

[Bod]

Aye, good point.

[Simon Mason]

On Thursday, 2 April 2015 16:18:50 UTC+1, eastender wrote:

I have reported a few car occupants for littering with video evidence.

http://www.hullcc.gov.uk/portal/page?_pageid=221,119154&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

[Robin]

I doubt perjury (or perverting the course of justice) would come into it
in London where councils have power to issue a civil penalty for
littering to the registered owner of the vehicle[1][2]. I see scope for
a good deal of abuse if councils were to act on tip-offs which were not
back up with photographic or video evidence. I can all too easily
envisage accusations of littering being triggered by disputes between
neighbours, real or perceived insults at school (between parents or
children) etc etc.

And I'm all for similar civil penalties against schools for littering on
the basis of the school uniform worn in photos/videos of the feral yoofs
dropping their fast food waste, drink cans, etc etc - but I'm sure it
won't happen 'cos they're all such special young people :(

[1] AIUI perjury applies only in judicial proceedings and perverting the
course of justice applies only to a criminal
investigations/prosecutions.
[2] there's provision for civil penalties to be introduced elsewhere in
England & Wales but it's not yet in force

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

[Steve Walker]

On 03/04/2015 08:04, Neil Williams wrote:

I agree with your sentiments, the car driver looked like he could use a
lesson in civic responsibility. But anyone who takes it upon themselves
to deliver "street justice" shouldn't be surprised if they get an angry
reaction. The Police have better things to do.

[Roland Perry]

In message <mfuaqc$ikf$1...@dont-email.me>, at 16:04:28 on Mon, 6 Apr
2015, Jethro_uk <jeth...@hotmailbin.com> remarked:

>> One of the local authorities near me has put up signs giving a phone
>> number to report littering. Very cleverly, they put them near places
>> like roundabouts, where you don't have time to read them properly or
>> make a note of the phone number.
>

>Alternatively, in traffic, a roundabout is *exactly* where you will have
>time to read them.

But not, if you are driving, any possibility of recording the
information for later use.
--
Roland Perry

[Nightjar <"cpb"@]

On 06/04/2015 17:04, Jethro_uk wrote:

> Alternatively, in traffic, a roundabout is *exactly* where you will have
> time to read them.
>

Perhaps in an urban area with heavy traffic, but these are typically
where 60mph roads cross 70mph roads and the nearside verge is not the
main point of interest.

--
Colin Bignell

[Paul Rudin]

Jethro_uk <jeth...@hotmailbin.com> writes:

> The plural of anecdote is not data.

But in a court witness testimony is evidence that a thing happened. And
several witnesses testifying that the thing happened will generally have
greater weight than just one.

[Chris R]

>
>
> "Paul Rudin" wrote in message news:86bnj0f...@rudin.co.uk...

Though we learned long ago that such evidence is largely valueless unless
subjected to challenge and cross-examination. And more recently, that
eyewitness identification evidence is largely valueless.
--
Chris R

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[Roland Perry]

In message <RPmdnX8E3t5T5r7I...@brightview.co.uk>, at
07:39:27 on Tue, 7 Apr 2015, Chris R <inv...@invalid.munge.co.uk>
remarked:

>> But in a court witness testimony is evidence that a thing happened. And
>> several witnesses testifying that the thing happened will generally have
>> greater weight than just one.
>
>Though we learned long ago that such evidence is largely valueless unless
>subjected to challenge and cross-examination. And more recently, that
>eyewitness identification evidence is largely valueless.

Perhaps eyewitness identification worked better when we knew everyone
living our village of a couple of hundred, and strangers stood out like
a sore thumb.
--
Roland Perry

[lordgnome]

The term 'anecdote' is frequently used where a person wishes to scorn
testimony.

Les.