Dodgy or Guild of Master Craftsmen?
nightjar
Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message
<365af9f...@news.dial.pipex.com>...
> ....
>does 'Guild of Master Craftsmen' mean any more than the card it is
>stamped on?
It is a long time since I had an invitation to join. ISTR that, unless
there were conditions that were not detailed on the invitation, membership
could have been mine for the effort of filling out a form and paying the
fees. However, that would not be the only trade association of which that
is true.
Colin Bignell
Surgical Instrument Manufacturer.
Julia Hawkes-Moore
'Master Roofer and Member of Guild of Master Craftsmen' according to
his business card. I wanted a quote for some rendering and for solving
a damp problem in the kitchen (of which more later) so I went into the
garden to watch him at work.
He was slating over the open space resulting from the chimney
removal. I was quite shocked to see him removing an almost-complete
row of slates after jigging them about a bit, then he relaid them with
a 2cm gap between each one. I think he had not measured the gap, and
couldn't be bothered to cut slate to fit, and thought (correctly) that
the gap would be invisible from the ground once the next row were laid
over it. This would be leaving a half-dozen gaps for rain to fill, I
am sure.
I did alert my neighbour to the potential problem, but I am unhappy
about the credentials this builder then advertised to me. Or is there
some mystical craft secret in slating that says you should leave large
gaps in a row of slates? Any opinions from the group?
Render problem - when our house (1860s Victorian Jerry-built dolls
house) was injection damproofed and reroofed 6 years ago, the strip of
render along the base of one side wall and the back wall was never
replaced, about 60cms deep and 16m long. We are about to repaint the
walls, not done for seven years. I am happy to give the render a
drip-bar at the base overhanging the 15cms of bitumen-painted brick
wall base with the injection marks (like the front wall) and then
render up to the original.
"Mr Craftsman" says a painting of coat off Unibond sealer over the
brickwork, then to render with a waterproof additive to the render,
£380 and two days work. Opinions, please?
Damp problem - after wet weather, a small area of bubbling paint
due to damp has developed in the kitchen, in two places. There was an
old fireplace, chimney removed and entire kitchen outbuilding nicely
reslated as 'lean-to'. Damp is about 1m off floor above and behind
radiator (no pipework there) to one side of chimney breast. Other damp
is in a narrow line at the top of the nearby wall. I have been
studying the (admittedly horrible and patched-over) old brickwork on
that end of the house (remaining 3 walls are rendered lath and
plaster) and I can see several triangular gaps in the brickwork
peeping out behind the bargeboard, in likely locations to be the
culprits. I think that sealing over these gaps with cement should
solve the problem of rain creeping inside.
But 'Mr Craftsman' says damp is caused by lead flashing coming
away along the side of the roof, needs removing and replacing with new
flashing, £50 cash, one morning's work. This flashing is invisible to
me, although I can see (as I would expect to see) lead flashing,
entirely healthy-looking, along the horizontal join of the kitchen
roof to the house wall above. Very strange. Why so quick and cheap to
fix what I can't see as being a problem?
Should this damp problem be properly fixed by 'an expert' or done
by us? Could 'an expert' be paid for by claiming on the buildings
insurance? If properly done, and I don't trust this particular bloke,
does 'Guild of Master Craftsmen' mean any more than the card it is
stamped on?
Sorry to make such a long posting, but this one seemed to need the
details explaining. All best wishes,
Julia Hawkes-Moore.
Douglas de Lacey
> >stamped on?
>
You'll get another shortly, then:-) They come fairly regularly to
everyone who runs a small business. As nightjar says, ther is nothing in
the app form to test your craftsmanship. I presume the membership alone
is enough to claim to be a "Master Roofer".
At the very least, get yourself a second quotation, Julia.
Douglas de Lacey.
Matthew Marks
> <365af9f...@news.dial.pipex.com>...
>> ....
>>does 'Guild of Master Craftsmen' mean any more than the card it is
>>stamped on?
Phoned them: no answer :-)
--
Matthew @rd.bbc.co.uk My opinions, not Auntie's
Al Grant
> It is a long time since I had an invitation to join. ISTR that, unless
> there were conditions that were not detailed on the invitation, membership
> could have been mine for the effort of filling out a form and paying the
> fees. However, that would not be the only trade association of which that
> is true.
Don't the real Guilds have something to say about organisations
calling themselves Guilds? After all, you can't call yourself the
Royal something, or the Institute of Chartered something, without
official approval. Or is it all right to call your organisation a Guild
as long as you're not in the City of London?
Peter Parry
Hawkes-Moore) wrote:
>does 'Guild of Master Craftsmen' mean any more than the card it is
>stamped on?
Probably not - I seem to recall them coming in for quite a bashing
from Which? or something similar a few years back.
They are not a proper Guild - just a commercial company selling
certificates and registration (which is why they are called "The
Guild of..." rather than the "Master Craftsmans Guild". What, if
any, standards procedure they have I know not.
I know someone who recently went for an interview with them for a job
selling their membership to small businesses. Most of the salary was
commission based, hardly likely to encourage their recruiter to be a
fair judge of prospective members. No knowledge of the businesses
being recruited was needed and as far as I am aware you fill in a
form (promising to be a good boy no doubt) pay your money and that's
it.
Unfortunately they are likely to attract two types of customer.
Firstly the slightly gullible but honest tradesman, proud of his work
and wanting to have some form of seal of recognition for it.
Secondly the cowboy who wants to look competent but hasn't the
ability to use past customers as references. I don't know how you
quickly tell the difference! Membership of the organisation is
certainly worthless when trying to compare the relative merits of
tradesmen.
--
Peter Parry. 01442 212597 0973 269132 fax 01442 233169
http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk
Andy Wade
> As nightjar says, ther is nothing in
> the app form to test your craftsmanship. I presume the membership alone
> is enough to claim to be a "Master Roofer".
And don't forget that the original meaning of 'master' in this context is
as in master and slave. A master craftsman is simply one who employs
others. Nothing whatever about skill or competence should be inferred
from that.
--
Andy
Tony Bryer
> Don't the real Guilds have something to say about organisations
> calling themselves Guilds?
Real Guilds and professional Institutions don't advertise for
membership recruitment executives (i.e. salesmen) who are paid serious
money to persuade people to join. I wonder how many members have been
expelled for failing to act like master craftsmen (very sexist when I
think about it <g>).
I would regard GoMC membership as being in the same class as Chamber of
Commerce membership - something which probably has benefits for the
business, but not much for the customer.
Tony Bryer SDA UK
Douglas de Lacey
>
> I would regard GoMC membership as being in the same class as Chamber of
> Commerce membership - something which probably has benefits for the
> business,
Not obviously, from what I recall of the application form. Except of
course the ability to flash the title around on your card. Which IIRC
was explicitly mentioned as a plus point.
> but not much for the customer.
Agreed.
Douglas de Lacey.
Andy Dingley
Hawkes-Moore) wrote:
>Member of Guild of Master Craftsmen'
I know one trustworthy plumber who has removed their logo from his
van. Being a member doesn't imply being a cowboy, but their
admissions process is clearly so lax that many of their members
certainly do wear spurs and stetsons. He thought the association was
no longer worth claiming.
In Knowle, all the plumbers wear six-guns anyway. It's the only way to
keep the tools in the van.
Matthew Marks
Have been given more information, by ringing a Sussex rather than a Wales
number. Apparently you have to have been in business for "6-9 months" and
you have to provide five references. Read into that what you like. Perhaps
they don't hit you with that on the application form because you'd be less
likely to bother in the first place if they did?
.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`FruitBat¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´
Bit like, I understand, people can buy a "Degree", or a "Lord of the
Manor".
But, is there a trustworthy Trade Association out there, that we should
look for in an artisan?
--
donlad.
Tony Polson
Hawkes-Moore) wrote:
> My next door neighbour is having a chimney demolished by a local
>'Master Roofer and Member of Guild of Master Craftsmen' according to
>his business card. I wanted a quote for some rendering and for solving
>a damp problem in the kitchen (of which more later) so I went into the
>garden to watch him at work.
.. snip ..
>does 'Guild of Master Craftsmen' mean any more than the card it is
>stamped on?
It means that the so-called "Master Roofer" has filled in a form and sent off a
cheque for £15.00 to the "Guild of Master Conmen". Sorry, Craftsmen.
That's ALL it means.
"Master Roofer" has as much meaning and status as "Chief Bottlewasher" unless
it's backed by an accredited trade body, which the "Guild of Master Conmen" is
absolutely not.
Apologies to all apprentice bottlewashers! And if there is an "Institute of
Chief Bottlewashers" then I really am in trouble ....
--
Tony Polson, North Yorkshire, UK
to reply change nospam to polson
Artextra
Hawkes-Moore) wrote:
snip
>Or is there some mystical craft secret in slating that says you should
> leave large gaps in a row of slates? Any opinions from the group?
Nothing mystical. If there are gaps, the rain will find it.
snip
> "Mr Craftsman" says a painting of coat off Unibond sealer over the
>brickwork, then to render with a waterproof additive to the render,
>£380 and two days work. Opinions, please?
Expensive and certainly not two days work.
snip
>does 'Guild of Master Craftsmen' mean any more than the card it is
>stamped on?
No.
Prior to specialising in artexing, I ran a general building
contractors business and was approached by the GMC
in mid 1991. When I told the rep that I wasn't interested he
immediately dropped the price of membership which I thought was very
unprofessional..
To see whether membership actually meant anything,
I told him that although I had been in business since 1986, I couldn't
supply any references that would stand up to scrutiny.
No problem said the rep, we wont check them !
I declined the offer to join !
The only trade memberships that are worth noting ( IMHO ) are those
required by law, such as CORGI registration for gas fitters.
Artextra
Charles(Joe) Stahelin
Departments to recommend people who could be approached for the particular
type of work in view. With luck they will give you a short list without
comment as to ability but the list surely would not include any known
duffers or people of doubtful integrity. However it is no use expecting
them to tell you who should be avoided.
The only other way is to find personal recommendations from people who will
let you see what was done: It is not always safe to rely on words alone as
some people are not good judges of work done.
Charles (Joe) Stahelin, Huddersfield, West Yorkshire
------------------------------------------
Peter Parry wrote in message <365ba1fd...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:11:30 GMT, hawk...@dial.pipex.com (Julia
>Hawkes-Moore) wrote:
>
>>does 'Guild of Master Craftsmen' mean any more than the card it is
>>stamped on?
--------snip
>I know someone who recently went for an interview with them for a job
>selling their membership to small businesses. Most of the salary was
>commission based, hardly likely to encourage their recruiter to be a
>fair judge of prospective members. No knowledge of the businesses
>being recruited was needed and as far as I am aware you fill in a
>form (promising to be a good boy no doubt) pay your money and that's
>it.------snips
Jon Rouse
>
> It is a long time since I had an invitation to join. ISTR that, unless
> there were conditions that were not detailed on the invitation, membership
> could have been mine for the effort of filling out a form and paying the
> fees. However, that would not be the only trade association of which that
> is true.
Most trade associations are for the protection of the traders, not the
punters.
--
The views expressed are my own and may not represent those of my
employer
Douglas de Lacey
>
>
> The only trade memberships that are worth noting ( IMHO ) are those
> required by law, such as CORGI registration for gas fitters.
Er, is CORGI that much better? To begin with at least it just absorbed
all practising gasmen. What are the qualifications for registration
today?
(IIRC we have had several scare stories on this ng of unprofessional
work by CORGIs.)
Douglas de Lacey.
Al Grant
> In article <365A92D8...@cam.ac.uk>, Al Grant wrote:
> > Don't the real Guilds have something to say about organisations
> > calling themselves Guilds?
>
> Real Guilds and professional Institutions don't advertise for
> membership recruitment executives (i.e. salesmen) who are paid serious
> money to persuade people to join.
Yes but that's not the point. Institutions can't use the terms "Royal"
and "Chartered" without approval, so how can they call themselves
"Guilds"? Is a Guild a legally defined type of institution, or is it like
a Church where anyone can call themselves Church of X etc.?
> I wonder how many members have been
> expelled for failing to act like master craftsmen (very sexist when I
> think about it <g>).
So's the term "cowboy builders"...
Tony Bryer
> One way round the problem might be to ask the Buildings or the Planning
> Departments to recommend people who could be approached for the particular
> type of work in view. With luck they will give you a short list without
> comment as to ability but the list surely would not include any known
> duffers or people of doubtful integrity. However it is no use expecting
> them to tell you who should be avoided.
In the dim and distant past I was a Building Control Officer and would offer
some names if asked, but quite unofficially of course. Truth be told there
were only about six firms that I could mention with a clear conscience, and
they all had more than enough work without ever advertising. One was in the
same category as a top public school: he looked you over and if your job was
the sort he wanted you would be allowed onto the waiting list. At times this
was eighteen months, but his reputation was so good that people would wait.
> The only other way is to find personal recommendations from people who will
> let you see what was done: It is not always safe to rely on words alone as
> some people are not good judges of work done.
Too right. I remember a loft conversion in New Malden. When it came to making
the opening for the staircase the 'builders' jumped up and down on the
ceiling and lath and plaster came crashing down through the hall and stairs -
no dust sheets of course. Just as they finished I called to do an inspection
and when the lady of the house opened the door it was as if a bomb had
dropped. I politely dropped a hint that only cowboys worked like this, and
she smiled sweetly and said "you've got put up with a bit of mess on a job
like this, haven't you?". I wouldn't be in the least surprised if she didn't
recommend said cowboys to her friends.
Tony Bryer
Gail Hible
services of a corgi registered plumber. When he had finished the whole
job, he asked if he could use my house to use for his re-registration to
corgi.
Apparantely they pay a registration fee each year and have to provide
evidence of so many jobs done to a certain standard for his inspector to
inspect I suppose.
Gail
Sheffield
***********************************
swa...@my-dejanews.com
> (IIRC we have had several scare stories on this ng of unprofessional
> work by CORGIs.)
>
Yes there are scare stories for every type of profession regardless of if
there is any kind of offical accreditation, in the case of CORGI or ACOPS,
this at least means that if the cowboy gas person does do things wrong then
he is liable for any damaages caused, also if the work is not to standard
then they should come back and put it right at no cost to the individual.
SW.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Phil Addison
a long sad, but familiar, tale, snipped for brevity... then
>does 'Guild of Master Craftsmen' mean any more than the card it is
>stamped on?
> Opinions, please?
Whilst not being able to comment on this specific organisation, some years
ago I had damp proofing injection done by a 'Member of the Federation of
Master Builders' and was furnished with a 20 year guarantee certificate. Of
course the DP'ing didn't work and I tried to get them back, only to find
that they had done a runner. Don't laugh - I was a mere DIY apprentice at
the time and usenet, let alone uk.d-i-y, had not even been invented.
When I asked the Federation of MB's if they could help, I was told that
this company had never actually been a member and was fraudulently using
their logo, so "sorry but we can't help".
Moral: Even if you do give the organisation some credence, ring them to
check if they actually have records of your man.
BT
of membership to some "guild" or "Society".
When we rang the "Guild/Society" they had never heard of the
conservatory firm.
When we queried this with the Conservatory firm they just said "It's not
our problem, we've got the certificate. You can chase them up for us if
you want to."
We got £600 compensation directly from the firm for bad workmanship, and
will NOT be recommending them.
Peter
John
>required by law, such as CORGI registration for gas fitters.
>
I wondered how long it would be before you had a rant about GMOC <g>.
I take it that doesn't include NIC if our friends with the re-wiring
slap up are anything to go by !! ~ but then NIC is optional !
John
Artextra
(John) wrote:
>I wondered how long it would be before you had a rant about GMOC <g>.
>I take it that doesn't include NIC if our friends with the re-wiring
>slap up are anything to go by !! ~ but then NIC is optional !
>
>John
I seem to remember your experience of the rep from the GoMC!!!
and as for the NEC EIC , I wasn't going to mention them, BUT for
anyone who's interested, here's a brief of a recent situation.
I went to fit a plaster ceiling rose for an existing customer and an
electrician that I know was also there.
He is not NEC EIC registered but he does do the job correctly and
works in accordance with the 16th edition wiring regs.
On removing a light fitting so that I could fit the plaster ceiling
rose, we both noticed old wiring was present. The customer had just
told us that they had paid over two thousand pounds for a full re-wire
only weeks prior to this event. The people that did the re-wire were
registered with the NEC EIC. My friend the electrician found old
wiring which may not have been dangerous but was nevertheless old.
He also found too many spurs taken from the ring main, missing earth
sleeving on at least one light fitting and numerous backboxes not
earthed. He advised the customer accordingly. I believe that NEC EIC
registration is expensive, particularly for a one-man-band type of
business and yet, from experience it is no guarantee of any skill.
So be warned !
Artextra
Tony Bryer
> We had our conservatory built and fitted by a company with a certificate
> of membership to some "guild" or "Society".
>
> When we rang the "Guild/Society" they had never heard of the
> conservatory firm.
>
are not are quite common I believe. I know that the Institute of Plumbing
has had a lot of trouble with people claiming to be members who are not.
Tony Bryer
Geoff
<rou...@it.postoffice.co.uk> writes
>nightjar wrote:
>>
>> It is a long time since I had an invitation to join. ISTR that, unless
>> there were conditions that were not detailed on the invitation, membership
>> could have been mine for the effort of filling out a form and paying the
>> fees. However, that would not be the only trade association of which that
>> is true.
>
>Most trade associations are for the protection of the traders, not the
>punters.
>
business, and only seemed interested in my subscription. He had a spiel
second only to a double glazing salesman (they're on commission, you
see). I think that as long as you pay your subscription, and that they
are not overwhelmed with complaints about you, irrespective of what you
do or how well (don't forget the word "master"), you're in !
--
Geoff
Tony Polson
wrote:
>Trading Standards prosecutions of firms claiming to be members of xxx who
>are not are quite common I believe. I know that the Institute of Plumbing
>has had a lot of trouble with people claiming to be members who are not.
I employed a plumber who was definitely a member of the Institute of Plumbing
(got his name from the IoP advert in Yellow Pages) and found him to be grossly
incompetent, without doubt the worst plumber I have ever used.
Even if plumbers ARE members, the IoP is no guarantee of competence IMHO.
--
Tony Polson, North Yorkshire, UK
to reply change nospam to scalby
Tony Bryer
> I employed a plumber who was definitely a member of the Institute of Plumbing
> (got his name from the IoP advert in Yellow Pages) and found him to be grossly
> incompetent, without doubt the worst plumber I have ever used.
>
> Even if plumbers ARE members, the IoP is no guarantee of competence IMHO.
>
both excellent and charge a fair price. I was a IoP companion member (a
membership grade for people interested in the subject but not in the business)
in my BCO days and they produced an excellent technical journal and ran some
excellent technical evenings which were well attended by plumbers who were
interested in keeping up to date and doing a good job.
I'm sure that there are exceptions, but I certainly got the impression that
anyone who was found guilty of 'bringing the game in disrepute' wouldn't stay an
IoP member long if a complaint was made.
Tony Bryer
John
(Artextra) wrote:
>
>
>I seem to remember your experience of the rep from the GoMC!!!
>
It was actually Phil, same old story - quoted - requoted - begged
<g>.
I wouldn't feel happy going back to a customer with a lower price
just because they didn't bite on the first !
John
Geoff
>The only trade memberships that are worth noting ( IMHO ) are those
>required by law, such as CORGI registration for gas fitters.
Sir, I believe you jest
--
Geoff
Geoff
writes
>Artextra wrote:
>>
>>
>> The only trade memberships that are worth noting ( IMHO ) are those
>> required by law, such as CORGI registration for gas fitters.
>
>all practising gasmen. What are the qualifications for registration
>today?
>
>work by CORGIs.)
>
... and who have paid for the course (of course)
--
Geoff
Artextra
wrote:
>In article <365b3c6f...@news.freeserve.net>, Artextra <John@artext
>>The only trade memberships that are worth noting ( IMHO ) are those
>>required by law, such as CORGI registration for gas fitters.
>
>Sir, I believe you jest
Why Geoff ? Please explain as I have been led to believe that it
takes the attainment of qualifications via exams to pass ACOPS before
you can get CORGI registered. Have I been mis-informed ?
Jon Rouse
>
> Why Geoff ? Please explain as I have been led to believe that it
> takes the attainment of qualifications via exams to pass ACOPS before
> you can get CORGI registered. Have I been mis-informed ?
When registration became compulsory I worte to CORGI and from the
information they sent me it appeared that if you paid the fee you were a
member.
As what I wanted was the knowledge not the kudos I decided this was a
thorough waste of money and a gas fitting course at the local tech was
more use.
Then I got a gas fitter to show me what was required over the course of
a couple of hours.
Geoff
ra.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 03:02:02 +0000, Geoff <Ge...@cetltd.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In article <365b3c6f...@news.freeserve.net>, Artextra <John@artext
>>>The only trade memberships that are worth noting ( IMHO ) are those
>>>required by law, such as CORGI registration for gas fitters.
>>
>>Sir, I believe you jest
>
>takes the attainment of qualifications via exams to pass ACOPS before
>you can get CORGI registered. Have I been mis-informed ?
>
I remember, for example, on one occasion, troubleshooting a (relatively
simple) boiler fault over the phone to a company who had the fitter on
the other line trying to fix the problem in real time.
I get quite a lot of circuit boards to repair which have absolutely
nothing wrong with them - this means that the fitter has just removed
the pcb, the boiler still doesn't work, he keeps on going replacing
things until the boiler eventually works - who pays for all these parts
? the (innocent and ignorant) customer of course.
I know of a fitter who when replacing a TRV compressed the olive on the
pipe so that there was too much pipe inside the TRV (How you can do that
- I don't know) and it leaked until someone else came and diagnosed the
fault.
I have recently tested a pcb for someone who was told that the pcb was
faulty and obsolete and the boiler needed replacing - I tested it and
returned it. He got another company (British Gas actually) who diagnosed
a blockage which took fifteen minutes to fix. Don't forget, if this
person hadn't have found me on the internet, he would have forked out
for a new boiler and installation thereof.
I could go on and on, these few instances were the first to come to
mind. All were CORGI, all ACOPS. I see the other side of these people
(i.e. I'm the professional and they are the customer) There are a lot of
qualified cowboys out there. I must also say that there are a lot of
good professionals. The problem is how the uninformed householder can
separate the former from the latter.
--
Geoff
George Hockey
Jon Rouse wrote in message <3663BC13...@it.postoffice.co.uk>...
>>When registration became compulsory I wrote to CORGI and from the
>information they sent me it appeared that if you paid the fee you were a
>member.
>As what I wanted was the knowledge not the kudos I decided this was a
>thorough waste of money and a gas fitting course at the local tech was
>more use.
>Then I got a gas fitter to show me what was required over the course of
>a couple of hours.
>
Whilst I am not a plumber and do not know the regulations in detail off the
top of my head, I have directly employed a cards in plumber for many years
to service my firm's plumbing needs.
Our current plumber who is in his 50's has just attended, and in his own
words 'sweated through', a three day course, and sat associated exams solely
in respect of gas appliances.
This replaces the old CORGI approval which was done by a question and answer
interview session between CORGI and the plumber.
The latest couse and exam meets the current stricter regulations to allow
him to continue to remove and reinstate gas heating appliances, because
without the approved qualifications it is deemed unsafe and unlawful for him
to do so.
Even before this course he regularly refused to refit removed gas fires,
advising that works to flues, or replacement of gas fires, were needed for
safety reasons.
There have been a number of cases where faulty systems have caused deaths,
thus the reason for such training and approval.
In view of this, I would hope that all DIY'ers would not take risks and
that in the case of gas fires/flues, they take qualified advice.
Regards,
George Hockey
dooper
>
>Jon Rouse wrote in message <3663BC13...@it.postoffice.co.uk>...
>>>When registration became compulsory I wrote to CORGI and from the
>>information they sent me it appeared that if you paid the fee you were a
>>member.
>>As what I wanted was the knowledge not the kudos I decided this was a
>>thorough waste of money and a gas fitting course at the local tech was
>>more use.
>>Then I got a gas fitter to show me what was required over the course of
>>a couple of hours.
>>
Hmm,how times change,,
I'm only 34 but i did a three year Apprenticeship (CGLI) to become a
gas service engineer. I then did another year or two doing Advanced
Gas utilisation learning about industrial and commercial gas
useage/applications. I then spent about another three years or so
doing OND then HND in Building services and Gas engineering. Of course
i only needeed the base CGLI Gas service engineers cert to practice my
trade (3 years) but it is strange that the present ACOPs cert is now
considered sufficient given that it takes far less time to acquire
this piece of paper. Can anyone tell me how many hours you need to put
in to get a full ACOP's cert??
In a further strange twist to the tale,despite my paper
qualifications and about 18 years of practical experience (including
Gas distribution,it is now illegal for me to practice without an ACOPS
cert!!.
joe,manchester,uk
Eric Harrison
dont suppose you could exert your qualifications on this one ? ..... I
have read the ladybird book of Gas .... apparently it comes from pipes
or something.
My Wickes boiler ignites when cold. A few clicks of the igniter and it's
lit. When heated up (after about 20 minutes) it fails to ignite but a
constant clicking (sparking ?) can be heard.
Any ideas ?
Eric Harrison
John
dooper wrote in message
<36743ea7...@news.nationwideisp.net>...
The time taken to get the certificates is only for the
assessment of your competence Joe, not for the previous
learning which you required to amass the knowledge and
skills. O.K so maybe you had a bit of time before the
assessment to refresh your learning.
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Regards,
John
Jon Rouse
<913418424.24111.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>
> There have been a number of cases where faulty systems have caused
deaths,
> thus the reason for such training and approval.
I'm pleased to hear that CORGI have tightened up their act - but you've
still no guarantee that the guy who fits your pipes is the one who got the
stamp on the van.
> In view of this, I would hope that all DIY'ers would not take risks and
> that in the case of gas fires/flues, they take qualified advice.
That's why people ask questions here, and why the more respectable plumbers
and fitters are happy to advise them. The people who just arrive to
pontificate are not welcome, people willing to offer help and encouragement
are. I think the message here is clear: if you don't like d-i-y don't post
to a d-i-y group.