Mains socket under combi boiler - ok?

[clanger...@yahoo.co.uk]

I'm trying to put a mains socket in a kitchen and get it as far away
from the sink as possible but that will mean it has to go under the
boiler. Do the regs allow a mains sockt to be installed under a combi
boiler?

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <05c8e3c1-1d73-4610...@t11g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,

Yes. You are supposed to keep gas and electric services separated,
but I've never seen anyone take any notice of that. I can't recall
what the distance is (it's part of gas regs, not electric regs).

Obviously, if the combi leaks, it could trip the RCD and cause
additional inconvenience. I wouldn't do it for that reason.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[clanger...@yahoo.co.uk]

On Sep 29, 12:11 pm, and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:

> Obviously, if the combi leaks, it could trip the RCD and cause
> additional inconvenience. I wouldn't do it for that reason.
>

Yes, that's exactly what I had in mind but frankly it's a choice
between being close to the sink where I can definitely see the
possibility of a water dousing or under the combi where the chance of
a leak is slim. If there's no regs against it I'm going to stick it
under the combi.

[ARWadsworth]

Andrew Gabriel <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article
> <05c8e3c1-1d73-4610...@t11g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> clanger...@yahoo.co.uk writes:
>> I'm trying to put a mains socket in a kitchen and get it as far away
>> from the sink as possible but that will mean it has to go under the
>> boiler. Do the regs allow a mains sockt to be installed under a combi
>> boiler?
>
> Yes. You are supposed to keep gas and electric services separated,
> but I've never seen anyone take any notice of that. I can't recall
> what the distance is (it's part of gas regs, not electric regs).

http://s428.photobucket.com/albums/qq6/adamko2020/?action=view&current=img048.jpg

I already had it so someone else must have asked.

> Obviously, if the combi leaks, it could trip the RCD and cause
> additional inconvenience. I wouldn't do it for that reason.

As could a leak anywhere else in the house.

--
Adam

[John Rumm]

There is no specific wiring regulation to prohibit it, but common sense
suggests that right under a boiler is not ideal should you ever get a leak.

(note there are not hard rules about distances from a sink either -
although there is a guideline of at least 300mm IIRC)

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Martin Bonner]

On Sep 29, 12:52 pm, John Rumm <see.my.signat...@nowhere.null> wrote:

> On 29/09/2011 11:51, clangers_sn...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to put a mains socket in a kitchen and get it as far away
> > from the sink as possible but that will mean it has to go under the
> > boiler. Do the regs allow a mains sockt to be installed under a combi
> > boiler?
>
> There is no specific wiring regulation to prohibit it, but common sense
> suggests that right under a boiler is not ideal should you ever get a leak.
>
> (note there are not hard rules about distances from a sink either -
> although there is a guideline of at least 300mm IIRC)

How about *directly* under the connector for the washing machine?
That's where there's a socket in our German house. (It's so close
that you can't easily unplug the washing machine without disconnecting
the filling hose first.)

I don't know if it meets local regs, but if I had owned the house when
it was installed I'd certainly have said "Oy!"

[TMC]

"Martin Bonner" <martin...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0ebaee11-7724-47c3...@j20g2000vby.googlegroups.com...

The house I am working on at the moment has a combi boiler fitted around an
existing socket in the corner of the kitchen

the socket is surface on top of the old vir conduit box

the socket sits between the flow and return pipes for the C H

The boiler was fitted there by British Gas and replaced an old floor
standing boiler in the fireplace in the dining room next door with the fused
spur and programme being left in their previous position

Why do I try to avoid getting the professionals in?

Regards

Tony

[charles]

In article
<05c8e3c1-1d73-4610...@t11g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,

To comply with Part P, sockets in te kitchen now need to be installed (or
checked) by a qualified installer.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

[RobertL]

On Sep 29, 12:21 pm, charles <char...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article
> <05c8e3c1-1d73-4610-a1e8-767fa15d5...@t11g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,

>    <clangers_sn...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to put a mains socket in a kitchen and get it as far away
> > from the sink as possible but that will mean it has to go under the
> > boiler. Do the regs allow a mains sockt to be installed under a combi
> > boiler?
>
> To comply with Part P, sockets in te kitchen now need to be installed (or
> checked) by a qualified installer.

"checked by a qualified installer"? Surely a Part-P qualified
intaller can only certify his own work. If you DIY it don't you need
to get building control in to check it?

Robert

[John Williamson]

You'd probably get away with it until (a) Something went wrong, or (b)
The surveyor notices it when you sell.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <521a4a7b...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,

charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> To comply with Part P, sockets in te kitchen now need to be installed (or
> checked) by a qualified installer.

Every part of that statement is incorrect.

[ARWadsworth]

(a) if done properly then nothing will go wrong, or (b) tell them that the
work was done before part P existed.

--
Adam

[charles]

In article
<7700296f-8ddc-435a...@x19g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,

a qualified installer can check on others' work, but the trade bodies don't
like it. (I was told this by an NICEIC contractor) Since our Building
Control people don't have anyone with even a basic knowledge of electrical
work, I'd rather find someone else to do the checks.

[ARWadsworth]

The work could be done by someone other than the part P registered installer
doing the notification, but the work must be "supervised".

Of course the level of supervision required is variable.

--
Adam

[Steve Walker]

On 29/09/2011 12:52, John Rumm wrote:
> On 29/09/2011 11:51, clanger...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to put a mains socket in a kitchen and get it as far away
>> from the sink as possible but that will mean it has to go under the
>> boiler. Do the regs allow a mains sockt to be installed under a combi
>> boiler?
>
> There is no specific wiring regulation to prohibit it, but common sense
> suggests that right under a boiler is not ideal should you ever get a leak.

I personally wouldn't worry, if the combi leaks, it's likely to leak all
over its own electrics anyway.

> (note there are not hard rules about distances from a sink either -
> although there is a guideline of at least 300mm IIRC)

Now there I prefer at least 600mm, making it less likely that the live
kettle lead ends up in the bowl.

SteveW

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <j62nk2$hft$2...@speranza.aioe.org>,

Steve Walker <st...@remove-this.walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
> Now there I prefer at least 600mm, making it less likely that the live
> kettle lead ends up in the bowl.

Are there any these days that aren't 'cordless'?

--
*Be more or less specific *

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[clanger...@yahoo.co.uk]

On Sep 29, 10:23 pm, Steve Walker <st...@remove-this.walker-

family.me.uk> wrote:

> > (note there are not hard rules about distances from a sink either -
> > although there is a guideline of at least 300mm IIRC)
>
> Now there I prefer at least 600mm, making it less likely that the live
> kettle lead ends up in the bowl.
>
> SteveW

That's exactly my problem though. There is not enough room between
sink and combi to allow even 300mm, which is why it has to go under
the combi.

[Tony Bryer]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 14:51:32 +0100 John Williamson wrote :
> You'd probably get away with it until (a) Something went wrong, or (b)
> The surveyor notices it when you sell.

When I sold I honestly declared that I had done sundry unapproved
alterations to the electrics and no comment was raised. If I'd been
pushed I would paid for a periodic inspection report, knowing that all
was OK

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

[Steve Walker]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:521a837...@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <j62nk2$hft$2...@speranza.aioe.org>,
> Steve Walker <st...@remove-this.walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>> Now there I prefer at least 600mm, making it less likely that the live
>> kettle lead ends up in the bowl.
>
> Are there any these days that aren't 'cordless'?

They're worse! Sometimes the base sticks when you pick up the kettle, then
drops off a second or two later - perfectly timed to end up in the bowl!

SteveW



--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ne...@netfront.net ---

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <j640n5$1iki$1...@adenine.netfront.net>,

Steve Walker <steve@remove_this_walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
> "Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:521a837...@davenoise.co.uk...
> > In article <j62nk2$hft$2...@speranza.aioe.org>,
> > Steve Walker <st...@remove-this.walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
> >> Now there I prefer at least 600mm, making it less likely that the live
> >> kettle lead ends up in the bowl.
> >
> > Are there any these days that aren't 'cordless'?

> They're worse! Sometimes the base sticks when you pick up the kettle,
> then drops off a second or two later - perfectly timed to end up in the
> bowl!

Never ever had that problem.

> --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ne...@netfront.net ---

--
*Stable Relationships Are For Horses.

[Bod]

On 30/09/2011 10:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article<j640n5$1iki$1...@adenine.netfront.net>,
> Steve Walker<steve@remove_this_walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>> "Dave Plowman (News)"<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:521a837...@davenoise.co.uk...
>>> In article<j62nk2$hft$2...@speranza.aioe.org>,
>>> Steve Walker<st...@remove-this.walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> Now there I prefer at least 600mm, making it less likely that the live
>>>> kettle lead ends up in the bowl.
>>>
>>> Are there any these days that aren't 'cordless'?
>
>> They're worse! Sometimes the base sticks when you pick up the kettle,
>> then drops off a second or two later - perfectly timed to end up in the
>> bowl!
>
> Never ever had that problem.
>
>
>
>> --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ne...@netfront.net ---
>
>
>

Nor me.

--
Bod

[Lobster]

Can't it go below but immediately to the left or right of the combi,
where at least dripping or running water won't go straight on to it?

David

[funkyoldcortina]

At least you won't have to wait long for the hot water to come through when
you turn on the tap :)

On a similar note, I guess because the hot water from a combi is
instantaneously heated, and not stored, it is as potable (drinkable) as the
cold water used to feed it ?

[Lobster]

On 30/09/2011 09:28, Terry Fields wrote:

>
> John Williamson wrote:
>
>>> "checked by a qualified installer"? Surely a Part-P qualified
>>> intaller can only certify his own work. If you DIY it don't you need
>>> to get building control in to check it?
>>>
>> You'd probably get away with it until (a) Something went wrong, or (b)
>> The surveyor notices it when you sell.
>

> I sold my house last year, which had had a kitchen refurbishment three
> years previously. The work wasn't certified.
>
> The buyer's solicitor's questionnaire asked these questions:
>
> - Has any electrical work been carried out aince 2005 Y/N
>
> - answer: Y
>
> - is a certificate available for this work Y/N
>
> - answer: N


Same here; no questions were raised and that was that. I suspect
basically it's all fine until you get an antsy buyer with an
arse-covering solicitor: it's the solicitor who may well raise it as a
problem.

A remember selling on an ex-council house which had a flat concrete roof
area out the back. The roof slab had been built into the cavity wall
when the house was built (1950s?) with basically a large mortar fillet
at the wall-roof junction, as it had been since day 1: it perfectly good
condition and showing no signs of any leaks or weather damage.

Surveyor points out that it's poor building practice or something and
that there should be lead flashing at the joint. Bloody joke; as having
worked on the house myself and known it inside out, it wasn't exactly
the worst issue he could have raised. Ultimately the result was I spent
half a day and £50 or so on bunging some lead up there, and all was
well. (Yeah I know, but a buyer's market at the time; with an antsy
buyer/ares-covering solicitor combo, so a pragmatic decision on my part).

David

[clanger...@yahoo.co.uk]

It's not that simple for me. I'm doing this under a building notice so
the council electrician wiil have to pass the work. That's why I have
to be sure it's done according to regs.

[John Rumm]

On 29/09/2011 22:23, Steve Walker wrote:
> On 29/09/2011 12:52, John Rumm wrote:
>> On 29/09/2011 11:51, clanger...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to put a mains socket in a kitchen and get it as far away
>>> from the sink as possible but that will mean it has to go under the
>>> boiler. Do the regs allow a mains sockt to be installed under a combi
>>> boiler?
>>
>> There is no specific wiring regulation to prohibit it, but common sense
>> suggests that right under a boiler is not ideal should you ever get a
>> leak.
>
> I personally wouldn't worry, if the combi leaks, it's likely to leak all
> over its own electrics anyway.

Possibly true, but could still leave you with a soaking wet plug to grab
hold of.

[John Rumm]

Usually yes.

[Bod]

On 30/09/2011 15:41, John Rumm wrote:
> On 29/09/2011 22:23, Steve Walker wrote:
>> On 29/09/2011 12:52, John Rumm wrote:
>>> On 29/09/2011 11:51, clanger...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm trying to put a mains socket in a kitchen and get it as far away
>>>> from the sink as possible but that will mean it has to go under the
>>>> boiler. Do the regs allow a mains sockt to be installed under a combi
>>>> boiler?
>>>
>>> There is no specific wiring regulation to prohibit it, but common sense
>>> suggests that right under a boiler is not ideal should you ever get a
>>> leak.
>>
>> I personally wouldn't worry, if the combi leaks, it's likely to leak all
>> over its own electrics anyway.
>
> Possibly true, but could still leave you with a soaking wet plug to grab
> hold of.
>
>

What about changing the socket for an *external fused switched spur*,
they are waterproof? You'll lose the socket, but you'll gain a switch.
Boilers must have a fused switched spur anyway.

--
Bod

[ARWadsworth]

The OP wants a double socket for general kitchen use and is not after a
power supply for the boiler.

--
Adam

[Bod]

Sorry, my mistake, I should've read the original thread.

--
Bod

[John Rumm]

On 29/09/2011 14:51, John Williamson wrote:
> RobertL wrote:
>> On Sep 29, 12:21 pm, charles <char...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <05c8e3c1-1d73-4610-a1e8-767fa15d5...@t11g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
>>> <clangers_sn...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm trying to put a mains socket in a kitchen and get it as far away
>>>> from the sink as possible but that will mean it has to go under the
>>>> boiler. Do the regs allow a mains sockt to be installed under a combi
>>>> boiler?
>>> To comply with Part P, sockets in te kitchen now need to be installed
>>> (or
>>> checked) by a qualified installer.

So much stuff seems to be written about part P - much of it verging on
folklore.

Part P has no requirements for "qualification" as such - but that is a
separate issue.

Controlled and notifiable jobs can be done by anyone regardless of their
qualifications or technical competence. The notification aspect can be
either by self certification if you are a member of a body that permits
permits you to self certify, or it can be done under a building notice.

There is no remit within the legislation to allow someone to certify
someone else's work for notification purposes unless they "supervise"
the work.

This puts most LABCs in a difficult position since they frequently don't
have staff with the appropriate skills to make a judgement, and have to
pay for an external firm to inspect and report.

>> "checked by a qualified installer"? Surely a Part-P qualified
>> intaller can only certify his own work. If you DIY it don't you need
>> to get building control in to check it?
>>
> You'd probably get away with it until (a) Something went wrong, or (b)
> The surveyor notices it when you sell.

I think that could be more simply phrased:

"you will get away with it" - if we assume you are suggesting that one
does the work oneself, and fails to notify the LABC.

(I did ask a local BCO a few years ago how many "electrical only"
building notices they get... after some thought, he said "none so
far!"). So either people have given up doing their own electrics, or the
competent ones who are aware of part P simply ignore it, and the ones
without a clue carry on regardless).

Solicitors have long since lost interest in it while conveyancing.
Especially since its perfectly acceptable to say "I don't know" to any
electrical questions along with "no I have not got any paperwork".

[John Rumm]

In which case ask the BCO in question. Its not unknown for BCOs to have
their own pet likes and dislikes that have nothing to do with the actual
rules etc. (as long term readers will recall with bloody minded BCO and
a cooker point!)

There is no regulatory requirement[1] that I am aware of to not put a
socket under the boiler (and indeed boilers will frequently need a FCU
in close proximity anyway), however common sense suggests one would
avoid doing so if its easy to do so. In this case I would try to keep
the suggested distance from the gas pipe etc if you can, but fit the
socket since it sounds like that is the only place for it, and you need it.

[1] Save for the general requirement that accessories should be chosen
so as to be appropriate for the location.

[Scott]

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 10:39:35 +0100, Bod <bodr...@tiscali.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 30/09/2011 10:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article<j640n5$1iki$1...@adenine.netfront.net>,
>> Steve Walker<steve@remove_this_walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>>> "Dave Plowman (News)"<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:521a837...@davenoise.co.uk...
>>>> In article<j62nk2$hft$2...@speranza.aioe.org>,
>>>> Steve Walker<st...@remove-this.walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Now there I prefer at least 600mm, making it less likely that the live
>>>>> kettle lead ends up in the bowl.
>>>>
>>>> Are there any these days that aren't 'cordless'?
>>
>>> They're worse! Sometimes the base sticks when you pick up the kettle,
>>> then drops off a second or two later - perfectly timed to end up in the
>>> bowl!
>>
>> Never ever had that problem.
>>

Nor me. Sounds like you never clean the kettle and/or base.

[Lobster]

On 30/09/2011 17:48, John Rumm wrote:
> On 30/09/2011 14:02, clanger...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>
>> It's not that simple for me. I'm doing this under a building notice so
>> the council electrician wiil have to pass the work. That's why I have
>> to be sure it's done according to regs.
>
> In which case ask the BCO in question. Its not unknown for BCOs to have
> their own pet likes and dislikes that have nothing to do with the actual
> rules etc. (as long term readers will recall with bloody minded BCO and
> a cooker point!)

When I was ordering new windows from a local firm a few years back, they
asked me who my BCO was, as depending on the answer, they would either
fit or not fit trickle vents (apparently get it wrong either way and the
windows would fail...)

David

[Steve Walker]

Kids spill things and you don't know that the base is sticky until you
try to pick the kettle up off it. It's a very infrequent event, but it
has happened a number of times now.

SteveW

[ARWadsworth]

Maybe it's the other way around and they all have sticky worktops.

--
Adam

[m...@privacy.net]

On 30 Sep,

Bod <bodr...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:



> Boilers must have a fused switched spur anyway.
>

Don't BG insist on them being fed from an unswitched socket outlet so that
they can be seen to be isolated.

My understanding is that you are correct as it is a fixed apliance, but BG
may differ.

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

[Bob Eager]

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 00:00:46 +0100, me9 wrote:

> On 30 Sep,
> Bod <bodr...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>> Boilers must have a fused switched spur anyway.
>>
> Don't BG insist on them being fed from an unswitched socket outlet so
> that they can be seen to be isolated.

I fed mine from a DP switch with neon. I would still always turn off the
MCB too...!

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <521B91FF25%brian...@lycos.co.uk>,

<m...@privacy.net> writes:
> On 30 Sep,
> Bod <bodr...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>> Boilers must have a fused switched spur anyway.
>>
> Don't BG insist on them being fed from an unswitched socket outlet so that
> they can be seen to be isolated.

If it's a socket outlet, it must be unswitched.
However, it can be (and more usually is) an FCU (double-pole switched).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[js.b1]

Electrical work under SI2006 is either a) Notifiable or b) Non-
Notifiable to LABC depending on work location etc. SI2006 can be
downloaded from ODPM, might be SI2010 now. The law is NOT set by
SI2004, some tradesmen will quote SI2004 by routine, get rid of them.

Example.
- A kitchen is considered a Special Location.
- Adding a socket in a kitchen is Notifiable Works.
- Repairing a socket or replacing a cable in a kitchen is Non-
Notifiable Works.

As to separation from services...
Gas BS6891-2005 8.16.2 Separation of installation pipework from other
services. Where installation pipes are not separated by electrical
insulating material, they shall be spaced as follows: a) at least
150mm away from electricity meters and associated excess current
controls, electrical switches or sockets, distribution boards or
consumer units; b) at least 25mm away from electricity supply and
distribution cables.

Compliance with BS7671 requires that other things may need rectifying
first, for example Main Equipotential Bonding etc. Part P "P1" applies
re nothing shall be required beyond that to maintain safety of people,
property etc etc - BS7671 being the typical comparison standard.

[sienna]

replying to John Rumm, sienna wrote:
The actual distance forma sink is 1 meter, the minimum is 300mm, a socket
out-let or cooker control unit with socket out-let from a cooker hob is 300mmm
the distance for a cooker control unit without a socket is 100mm

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/mains-socket-under-combi-boiler-ok-758086-.htm

[John Rumm]

Sianna, you seem to be 7 years late to this discussion, so I expect the
OP has solved the problem by now.

On 06/09/2018 13:14, sienna wrote:
> replying to John Rumm, sienna wrote:
> The actual distance forma sink is 1 meter, the minimum is 300mm, a socket
> out-let or cooker control unit with socket out-let from a cooker hob is
> 300mmm
> the distance for a cooker control unit without a socket is 100mm

Its a little unclear what you are talking about... is this the setup in
your kitchen, or what you believe the regulatory required minimum
distances to be?