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Merkell best hope to save brexit talks - Farage
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The Happy Hippy
Sep 3, 2017, 4:45:45 PM9/3/17
to
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/849515/Nigel-Farage-Angela-Merkel-Brexit-talks-German-election-video
<quotes>
Nigel Farage announced a shocking endorsement of Angela Merkel earlier today
before branding her the "best hope" to save the tumultuous Brexit talks
Speaking on LBC, the former Ukip leader said Mrs Merkel, who he acknowledged
was "fanatical about the EU", was the only hope Britain had against crashing
out without a deal.
"If there is any hope in saving Brexit talks, it lies with her."
</qutes>
Sounds bizarre. Until one realises that "saving brexit talks" to Farage
means getting the EU to agree to everything the UK wants, giving us the
access we already have without having to pay for it and without having to
settle a huge divorce bill.
Like May and Davis, Farage has the delusion that by side-stepping Barnier
and what the EU 27 have decided, they can sweet talk Merkel into telling the
EU they need us more than we need them and they should give us everything we
ask for.
It's just more wishful thinking from brextremists. Merkel's not going to
budge, and nor is Macron, and, even if they were inclined to, the entire EU
27 would not agree to that.
It's not going to happen. It would be the end of the EU, an act of idiotic
suicide. No one would remain members if they can have all they get from
being members by not being members and not having to pay for it. Merkel
simply isn't going to wave goodbye to the entire EU project simply because
the UK wants out.
The only thing it demonstrates is our arrogant contempt; how stupid we think
foreigners are.
The EU should be a whole lot better off without us. Once we have gone they
can set their minds to fixing the rest of their problems they have and which
we helped sustain; the fascists we support on their eastern flank, the
basket case economies we encouraged to be let in to the south. Freed of our
ideological opposition to Russia to further NATO's military ambitions, they
may even be able to get back to better relations with Putin.
<quotes>
Nigel Farage announced a shocking endorsement of Angela Merkel earlier today
before branding her the "best hope" to save the tumultuous Brexit talks
Speaking on LBC, the former Ukip leader said Mrs Merkel, who he acknowledged
was "fanatical about the EU", was the only hope Britain had against crashing
out without a deal.
"If there is any hope in saving Brexit talks, it lies with her."
</qutes>
Sounds bizarre. Until one realises that "saving brexit talks" to Farage
means getting the EU to agree to everything the UK wants, giving us the
access we already have without having to pay for it and without having to
settle a huge divorce bill.
Like May and Davis, Farage has the delusion that by side-stepping Barnier
and what the EU 27 have decided, they can sweet talk Merkel into telling the
EU they need us more than we need them and they should give us everything we
ask for.
It's just more wishful thinking from brextremists. Merkel's not going to
budge, and nor is Macron, and, even if they were inclined to, the entire EU
27 would not agree to that.
It's not going to happen. It would be the end of the EU, an act of idiotic
suicide. No one would remain members if they can have all they get from
being members by not being members and not having to pay for it. Merkel
simply isn't going to wave goodbye to the entire EU project simply because
the UK wants out.
The only thing it demonstrates is our arrogant contempt; how stupid we think
foreigners are.
The EU should be a whole lot better off without us. Once we have gone they
can set their minds to fixing the rest of their problems they have and which
we helped sustain; the fascists we support on their eastern flank, the
basket case economies we encouraged to be let in to the south. Freed of our
ideological opposition to Russia to further NATO's military ambitions, they
may even be able to get back to better relations with Putin.
TWP
Sep 3, 2017, 6:58:55 PM9/3/17
to
Farage has repeatedly said he believes that the German car industry will
press Merkel to make a deal, that's not new. You don't know he's wrong
yet. I wouldn't be spooked by all the talk, I think a lot of it is
psychological warfare and kicking each other under the table. There's
even benefit to be had by the EU in keeping us around for a longer and
longer negotiation period because it gets more cash from us and makes us
look even more pitiful to others who may consider leaving. We
shouldn't play along with it. It may make the EU happy to see us grovel
but it'll damage us internationally to look so desperate.
The Happy Hippy
Sep 3, 2017, 9:21:02 PM9/3/17
to
"TWP" <ngspam...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote ...
Why should they ?
Brextremists would be complaining if they did, would accuse them of trying
to undermine our democracy, trying to make us change our minds, forcing us
into referendum after referendum until we agreed to stay.
"Oh well, bye then; don't forget to settle your tab on the way out", wasn't
quite what they were expecting, but that's what we are getting - We settle
the tab, we rip up our membership card, then we decide between us what sort
of friendship we will have in the future.
It's not just brextremists wondering why we haven't left yet; the rest of
the EU are wondering too. It's not that hard to walk out the door but we do
seem to be making rather a palaver of that. It's as if we have a
pathalogical need to be the centre of attention.
> Farage has repeatedly said he believes that the German car industry will
> press Merkel to make a deal, that's not new. You don't know he's wrong
> yet.
Yes, he said that, as did others. And the German car industry did indeed say
the same themselves, went into a blind panic in the aftermath of the
referendum, hammering on Merkel's door insisting "this can't be allowed to
happen!".
But that was 14 months ago. They've had plenty of time to adjust to the idea
that the UK is leaving. They know things will be changing and they need to
look to other markets. And they haven't wasted that time as we have; they've
planned for that, have come to accept it.
They understand how the principles of the EU are central and fundamental to
Germany's future, their futures, and, while they might like a deal, they are
supporting the EU.
Britain might like to think that German car makers are desperate for a deal
but German car makers are saying that they aren't.
We really need to stop listening to people telling us what other people
think and listen to those people themselves. We're drowning ourselves in
delusions.
> I wouldn't be spooked by all the talk, I think a lot of it is
> psychological warfare and kicking each other under the table. There's
> even benefit to be had by the EU in keeping us around for a longer and
> longer negotiation period because it gets more cash from us and makes us
> look even more pitiful to others who may consider leaving. We shouldn't
> play along with it. It may make the EU happy to see us grovel but it'll
> damage us internationally to look so desperate.
All the signs are that much of the EU wants us out as soon as possible, then
they can get on with life how they want it without us holding them back.
It's only because they are obliged to have negotiations that they are
negotiating. The EU 27 nailed down what they want and are expecting us to
stick to it. I think if we walked away they would be happy, grateful it was
all over and there was no more pissing about with May's clowns to be
suffered.
We'll be hanging around like a bad smell for a while but it hasn't stopped
the EU moving forward and they have already adjusted to our going. The EU is
prepared for our leaving, have made it clear we leave, then we start to
build a new relationship.
We lose everything in leaving. What a deal gets us is merely that we might
be able to ask to have some nice things again.
That's why the EU don't really care; it's our leaving they are focused on,
not what happens after that. They've got an empire to run; Davis is just an
annoyance who won't go away. They just want him to settle the tab and piss
off.
Britain has a completely distorted view of how the EU, member states and
their citizens view us and brexit.
We arrogantly presume they are all filling their pants in fear of our going.
In truth they are no more concerned than we would be if Latvia pulled out.
We might raise an eyebrow when we heard it announced on the news, but it
would be business as usual the day after; Latvia's problem to sort out what
they do next. We wouldn't even notice the loss of Latvia. 14 months down the
road we really wouldn't care any more.
If the EU were to have a vote on whether they want us in or just to go we
would be shocked by the result.
The only support we do have is from those on the fringes of the EU like
ourselves. In it but not willing to play the game, simply in it for
themselves, trying to exploit the EU for their own selfish gains,
continually trying to undermine what the EU is. They only support us because
they take delight in any thorn in the EU's side.
Brextremists would be complaining if they did, would accuse them of trying
to undermine our democracy, trying to make us change our minds, forcing us
into referendum after referendum until we agreed to stay.
"Oh well, bye then; don't forget to settle your tab on the way out", wasn't
quite what they were expecting, but that's what we are getting - We settle
the tab, we rip up our membership card, then we decide between us what sort
of friendship we will have in the future.
It's not just brextremists wondering why we haven't left yet; the rest of
the EU are wondering too. It's not that hard to walk out the door but we do
seem to be making rather a palaver of that. It's as if we have a
pathalogical need to be the centre of attention.
> Farage has repeatedly said he believes that the German car industry will
> press Merkel to make a deal, that's not new. You don't know he's wrong
> yet.
the same themselves, went into a blind panic in the aftermath of the
referendum, hammering on Merkel's door insisting "this can't be allowed to
happen!".
But that was 14 months ago. They've had plenty of time to adjust to the idea
that the UK is leaving. They know things will be changing and they need to
look to other markets. And they haven't wasted that time as we have; they've
planned for that, have come to accept it.
They understand how the principles of the EU are central and fundamental to
Germany's future, their futures, and, while they might like a deal, they are
supporting the EU.
Britain might like to think that German car makers are desperate for a deal
but German car makers are saying that they aren't.
We really need to stop listening to people telling us what other people
think and listen to those people themselves. We're drowning ourselves in
delusions.
> I wouldn't be spooked by all the talk, I think a lot of it is
> psychological warfare and kicking each other under the table. There's
> even benefit to be had by the EU in keeping us around for a longer and
> longer negotiation period because it gets more cash from us and makes us
> look even more pitiful to others who may consider leaving. We shouldn't
> play along with it. It may make the EU happy to see us grovel but it'll
> damage us internationally to look so desperate.
they can get on with life how they want it without us holding them back.
It's only because they are obliged to have negotiations that they are
negotiating. The EU 27 nailed down what they want and are expecting us to
stick to it. I think if we walked away they would be happy, grateful it was
all over and there was no more pissing about with May's clowns to be
suffered.
We'll be hanging around like a bad smell for a while but it hasn't stopped
the EU moving forward and they have already adjusted to our going. The EU is
prepared for our leaving, have made it clear we leave, then we start to
build a new relationship.
We lose everything in leaving. What a deal gets us is merely that we might
be able to ask to have some nice things again.
That's why the EU don't really care; it's our leaving they are focused on,
not what happens after that. They've got an empire to run; Davis is just an
annoyance who won't go away. They just want him to settle the tab and piss
off.
Britain has a completely distorted view of how the EU, member states and
their citizens view us and brexit.
We arrogantly presume they are all filling their pants in fear of our going.
In truth they are no more concerned than we would be if Latvia pulled out.
We might raise an eyebrow when we heard it announced on the news, but it
would be business as usual the day after; Latvia's problem to sort out what
they do next. We wouldn't even notice the loss of Latvia. 14 months down the
road we really wouldn't care any more.
If the EU were to have a vote on whether they want us in or just to go we
would be shocked by the result.
The only support we do have is from those on the fringes of the EU like
ourselves. In it but not willing to play the game, simply in it for
themselves, trying to exploit the EU for their own selfish gains,
continually trying to undermine what the EU is. They only support us because
they take delight in any thorn in the EU's side.
The Happy Hippy
Sep 4, 2017, 8:32:01 AM9/4/17
to
"The Happy Hippy" <the.happy....@ntlworld.com> wrote ...
> Britain might like to think that German car makers are desperate for a
> deal but German car makers are saying that they aren't.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/08/german-industry-warns-uk-over-brexit
<quotes>
German industry has warned Britain not to rely on its help in securing a
good Brexit deal, in a stark intervention that strikes a blow at the
government’s EU departure plans.
Senior ministers have repeatedly claimed since the election that Germany’s
powerful exporters will exert pressure for a deal handing Britain
substantial access to the EU’s markets.
However, ministers are told that it is up to the British government to limit
the economic fallout from its decision to leave the single market.
Two of Germany’s biggest industry groups have told the Observer that their
main concern during the Brexit process is protecting the single market for
the remaining 27 members, even if this harms trade with Britain.
“Defending the single market, a key European project, must be the priority
for the European Union. Europe must maintain the integrity of the single
market and its four freedoms: goods, capital, services, and labour.
“It is the responsibility of the British government to limit the damage on
both sides of the Channel. Over the coming months, it will be
extraordinarily difficult to avert negative effects on British businesses in
particular."
"The cohesion of the remaining 27 EU member states has highest priority.”
</quotes>
Fancy that; Germans are looking after themselves and their futures rather
than worrying about us and ours.
We are behaving like the person who walks out of a relationship expecting
those we have left to worry more about us than their own future. It doesn't
work that way. It's deluded to think it does.
It's the tired, old "You'll miss me when I'm gone" story. It rarely happens
that way. People left soon get over it. Most are quite glad their partners
have gone.
It's the same nonsense with our membership fee; that the EU cannot possibly
survive without that. Even if it were the $350 million a week Leave claimed
on the side of their bus, that's only £18 billion a year.
It may seem a lot but, spread across the EU 27, it's not much more than half
a billion quid each. That's just lose change; May found twice that, one and
a half billion down the back of the sofa, to bribe the DUP, we are spending
45 billion on a railway no one wants, hundreds of billions on upgraded
nuclear missiles.
We are not unique and most other EU countries could easily find half a
billion, some could make up all or most of the shortfall themselves and feel
little impact of that. Even if they didn't make up the shortfall it's not
going to have an impact on the EU as much as we pretend it will. The idea
that everything falls to pieces because we are leaving is simply laughable.
> Britain might like to think that German car makers are desperate for a
> deal but German car makers are saying that they aren't.
<quotes>
German industry has warned Britain not to rely on its help in securing a
good Brexit deal, in a stark intervention that strikes a blow at the
government’s EU departure plans.
Senior ministers have repeatedly claimed since the election that Germany’s
powerful exporters will exert pressure for a deal handing Britain
substantial access to the EU’s markets.
However, ministers are told that it is up to the British government to limit
the economic fallout from its decision to leave the single market.
Two of Germany’s biggest industry groups have told the Observer that their
main concern during the Brexit process is protecting the single market for
the remaining 27 members, even if this harms trade with Britain.
“Defending the single market, a key European project, must be the priority
for the European Union. Europe must maintain the integrity of the single
market and its four freedoms: goods, capital, services, and labour.
“It is the responsibility of the British government to limit the damage on
both sides of the Channel. Over the coming months, it will be
extraordinarily difficult to avert negative effects on British businesses in
particular."
"The cohesion of the remaining 27 EU member states has highest priority.”
</quotes>
Fancy that; Germans are looking after themselves and their futures rather
than worrying about us and ours.
We are behaving like the person who walks out of a relationship expecting
those we have left to worry more about us than their own future. It doesn't
work that way. It's deluded to think it does.
It's the tired, old "You'll miss me when I'm gone" story. It rarely happens
that way. People left soon get over it. Most are quite glad their partners
have gone.
It's the same nonsense with our membership fee; that the EU cannot possibly
survive without that. Even if it were the $350 million a week Leave claimed
on the side of their bus, that's only £18 billion a year.
It may seem a lot but, spread across the EU 27, it's not much more than half
a billion quid each. That's just lose change; May found twice that, one and
a half billion down the back of the sofa, to bribe the DUP, we are spending
45 billion on a railway no one wants, hundreds of billions on upgraded
nuclear missiles.
We are not unique and most other EU countries could easily find half a
billion, some could make up all or most of the shortfall themselves and feel
little impact of that. Even if they didn't make up the shortfall it's not
going to have an impact on the EU as much as we pretend it will. The idea
that everything falls to pieces because we are leaving is simply laughable.
The Happy Hippy
Sep 5, 2017, 11:50:05 AM9/5/17
to
> All the signs are that much of the EU wants us out as soon as possible,
> then they can get on with life how they want it without us holding them
> back.
:
> then they can get on with life how they want it without us holding them
> back.
> Britain has a completely distorted view of how the EU, member states and
> their citizens view us and brexit.
:
> their citizens view us and brexit.
> If the EU were to have a vote on whether they want us in or just to go we
> would be shocked by the result.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-latest-news-french-people-uk-leave-eu-stay-franch-european-union-a7929156.html
> would be shocked by the result.
<quores>
More French people would be pleased to see the UK part with the European
Union than stay part of it, according to new data.
A poll from YouGov found that 38 per cent of people in France want the UK to
leave, versus 32 per cent who want the UK to stay. The rest were undecided.
Of those who wanted the UK to leave, 46 per cent said it should go
“immediately”, while 50 per cent said the UK should leave after the Brexit
negotiations have taken place.
If the UK changed its mind about Brexit and remained in the EU, almost a
quarter - 23 per cent - of the French would be apathetic.
</quotes>
I expect "undecided" is just polite for "couldn't care less". I wonder if
there was a "haven't they already left?" option.
Other nations would prefer it more if we stayed but weren't particularly
fused whatever we decide to do.
The full report is here -
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/78e9zfqj51/InternalResults_BritainEU_Aug2017_Topline_W.pdf
Interestingly, amongst Brits, if the UK announced it was staying in the EU,
there are near equal numbers who would be Angry (32%) / Relieved (32%),
Disappointed (30%) / Pleased (28%), and Worried (19%) / Delighted (18%) at
that
That's more confirmation that we are a bitterly divided and polarised nation
and likely will remain so for a long time to come. Unsurprisingly there is
much more indifference and less emotion amongst our European neighbours.
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