Look for dataset on parks, rec centers, schools, and other public meeting places in St. Paul
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Bill Bushey
Oct 15, 2015, 6:16:44 PM10/15/15
to Open Twin Cities
Cleaning up/organizing this thread by reposting the posts that are currently across multiple other threads.
Bill Bushey
Oct 15, 2015, 6:17:49 PM10/15/15
to Open Twin Cities, t...@triplo.co
Tim's original post:
I'm working on a project and we'd like to seed our website with a fairly extensive list of local places where one might organization a class or group meeting.
We'd love a list(s) of as many of the following as possible:
* Rec Centers
* Schools
* Libraries
* Parks
* Churches
Our focus is on Saint Paul, however getting both Saint Paul and Minneapolis together would also be great (first ring suburbs would also be nice, but not required).
Where do I find this list?
We'd be happy to get the data in a CSV file for now.
Thanks,
Tim Erickson
Triplo
651-246-5045
Bill Bushey
Oct 15, 2015, 6:21:07 PM10/15/15
to Open Twin Cities, t...@triplo.co, kpea...@artsmia.org
Bill Bushey
Oct 15, 2015, 6:22:52 PM10/15/15
to Open Twin Cities, t...@triplo.co, kpea...@artsmia.org, zra...@gmail.com
Brad's reply:
Brad TimmI will go back to lurking now, sorry to interrupt.This list is specific and while there may be several organizations that could use it, no one organization has motive to compile and publish a list like this. That is what I perceive this group would like to help change. Teach folks to share, and help with how, where and why. I see this as many man hours of contacting the Churches, local governments, counties, state offices, Library systems, school districts and such. It takes a group to step up and compile this and share it to show others that this data while expensive to collect, is important to share and that others can help collect it, update and verify it. A question like this is sounds like it has some value to Tim's organization, the question is that value worth working for to have the data available in the future?Being a lurker, I should just keep silent on this, but I cannot. So Bill, Alan or anybody else say the word and I will delete it as I am trying to enlighten folks on what goes into some of these lists. Tim I am picking on your question as it is a common example, sorry but the opportunity was here.So.. First I would ask is there anyplace that this info would be put together organically. My first thought is no, as you have 5 different sources if you just stick with St Paul, then add more with each city, school district, county and such. Some of these will have the data out there, Libraries often post this, and if not already in a format, you can screen scrape that with just a bit more skill than say I have. But Churches by nature are not organized in a way that they post administrative info on their web sites, not to mention that most do not have parent organizations that would collect data from individual churches and compile it.
MaryJo Webster
Oct 21, 2015, 5:14:03 PM10/21/15
to Bill Bushey, Open Twin Cities, t...@triplo.co, kpea...@artsmia.org, zra...@gmail.com
Getting lists and addresses of many of these places is quite do-able. For example, it's very easy to get lists of schools and all their addresses from the Minnesota Department of Education. There's tons of GIS data out there with locations of all kinds of things, including parks. Churches are a little tougher, but I'd start with the IRS 990 filings data (which you can download online). However, do all of those places make their space available for groups?? The data that I'm referring to won't answer that question.
One other idea is to check with the respective city inspection departments and ask if they have any requirements that these kinds of quasi-public meeting spaces be inspected (for fire safety or whatever). If there is a requirement, then you just ask them for their list of places that have been inspected. I've never asked about this, so I don't know if there is such a requirement -- but it's a good question to ask.
MaryJo Webster
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Timothy Erickson
Oct 21, 2015, 5:35:43 PM10/21/15
to Open Twin Cities, Bill Bushey, kpea...@artsmia.org, MaryJo Webster, zra...@gmail.com
MaryJo, Brad, Bill, and Kristina (and anyone else I missed):
Thanks for your replies and suggestions. We currently believe that we'll probably have to start collecting this data ourselves. However, we are willing to collaborate and share if anyone else is interested.
Our current thought, is that we may START by simply pulling together a handful of disperse lists in a CSV file and sharing it on GitHub for others to use and contribute to. We may schedule an evening or Saturday afternoon at a coffee shop where we lay the groundwork and invite anyone with ideas or a shared interest in this data to join us and map out what data we want, how to best store it, how to maintain it, and where to find it.
If anyone else is interested in using a dataset like this or wants to help pull it together, please feel free to contact me. We hope to get working on this within 1-2 weeks.
Our own needs are really pretty basic right now, so it's open to the group if this grows into something larger or not. But, we'd be interested in participating in and supporting a collective effort.
Best wishes,
Tim
Steven Clift
Oct 21, 2015, 7:58:34 PM10/21/15
to Timothy Erickson, Brad T, twin-cities-brigade, MaryJo Webster, kpea...@artsmia.org, Bill Bushey
Check with the James J Hill library about what databases they might have available.
You can't digitally copy wholesale, but you might be able to parse out lists that you can use to gather more detailed info. Facts can't be copyrighted.
kathyahlers
Oct 28, 2015, 9:13:52 AM10/28/15
to Open Twin Cities, t...@triplo.co, zra...@gmail.com, mjweb...@gmail.com, kpea...@artsmia.org, wbu...@opentwincities.org
This is very exciting! I have noticed a need for this, too, Tim, for a long time. Thanks for stepping up to convene it.
A community-built and maintained database would be ideal. For example, you might try structuring a self-fill-in form online somewhere, and publicize a link to that so contact people from the locations themselves make a secure sign-in and enter their own data--that way, they can be partly responsible for keeping the data up to date. A huge issue in a world in which things can change quickly is "stale data". Nobody wants stale data. So, maintenance is a design issue. (There's no such thing as a free kitten...) Maybe they'd get a ping once a year to remind them to check to see if everything is current.
Mobile-friendliness for the look-up would be important...how many times have you been at a meeting when planning is being done and someone says "I wonder if we could meet at such-and-such a place"? If people could look up the info on their phones (and actually see it), that would be ideal.
I'm thinking pre-test several models with small sample sets of data. (Wireframe them and gauge user responses to the interface for UX/UI feedback.)
http://www.creativebloq.com/wireframes/top-wireframing-tools-11121302
One could even build it with a roughed-in capability to link (API) to an optional online-scheduling (and deposit-paying) utility in the future, for those institutions set up to handle this on their end. Perhaps there's an online scheduling tool already in use by many such places that could be worked with. (I don't know; I could help research it. We could look at the websites of large churches.)
It would be nice if your project were a metro-wide database, as we face the same issues on the other side of the river. Also, when planning for events of metro-wide interest, community-event planners would be looking at possible locations in both Minneapolis and St Paul, anyway.
A huge factor is ADA accessibility. Maybe start with that as the initial required screening factor for any meeting space listed. (Many older church buildings have inaccessible areas, and these can be the same spaces that they tend to rent out or let community groups use; e.g., basement fellowship halls; upstairs banquet spaces.) Figure out some way to enforce this--i.e., a review or complaint tagging system so non-ADA-conforming meeting rooms could be identified and removed by the admin.
Meeting space is essential to the functioning of our democracy. I would like to see e-Democracy involved in this build-out, somehow. Maybe crowd-fund it? (It could even be franchisable to other metro areas, as a general platform/tool.)
Re: data to collect
The number of people that a room can hold is also a crucial issue. You might want to see if there are natural clusterings of sizes of spaces in the community (or from the need side, what people are looking for), and then make fixed-choice selection categories (ranges of the number of people a room holds). This might make the memory use more efficient (i.e., faster response times from the queries) on the back end.
Re: training...if the system is not entirely intuitive (best, of course), training on this could be one part of a workshop (or series of workshops) for churches and other such groups on engaging the community through e-resources, which could include other web-related stuff, along with training on how to post to this new service to help their space be used to help the community.
Come to think of it, the data actually is kind of secondary. It seems to me that the upfront work put into the design of something like this will determine its acceptance, popularity, and usefulness for the long haul. I'm interested!
Kathy
Kathy Ahlers
data nerd
<kathy...@gmail.com>
@futurvue
A community-built and maintained database would be ideal. For example, you might try structuring a self-fill-in form online somewhere, and publicize a link to that so contact people from the locations themselves make a secure sign-in and enter their own data--that way, they can be partly responsible for keeping the data up to date. A huge issue in a world in which things can change quickly is "stale data". Nobody wants stale data. So, maintenance is a design issue. (There's no such thing as a free kitten...) Maybe they'd get a ping once a year to remind them to check to see if everything is current.
Mobile-friendliness for the look-up would be important...how many times have you been at a meeting when planning is being done and someone says "I wonder if we could meet at such-and-such a place"? If people could look up the info on their phones (and actually see it), that would be ideal.
I'm thinking pre-test several models with small sample sets of data. (Wireframe them and gauge user responses to the interface for UX/UI feedback.)
http://www.creativebloq.com/wireframes/top-wireframing-tools-11121302
One could even build it with a roughed-in capability to link (API) to an optional online-scheduling (and deposit-paying) utility in the future, for those institutions set up to handle this on their end. Perhaps there's an online scheduling tool already in use by many such places that could be worked with. (I don't know; I could help research it. We could look at the websites of large churches.)
It would be nice if your project were a metro-wide database, as we face the same issues on the other side of the river. Also, when planning for events of metro-wide interest, community-event planners would be looking at possible locations in both Minneapolis and St Paul, anyway.
A huge factor is ADA accessibility. Maybe start with that as the initial required screening factor for any meeting space listed. (Many older church buildings have inaccessible areas, and these can be the same spaces that they tend to rent out or let community groups use; e.g., basement fellowship halls; upstairs banquet spaces.) Figure out some way to enforce this--i.e., a review or complaint tagging system so non-ADA-conforming meeting rooms could be identified and removed by the admin.
Meeting space is essential to the functioning of our democracy. I would like to see e-Democracy involved in this build-out, somehow. Maybe crowd-fund it? (It could even be franchisable to other metro areas, as a general platform/tool.)
Re: data to collect
The number of people that a room can hold is also a crucial issue. You might want to see if there are natural clusterings of sizes of spaces in the community (or from the need side, what people are looking for), and then make fixed-choice selection categories (ranges of the number of people a room holds). This might make the memory use more efficient (i.e., faster response times from the queries) on the back end.
Re: training...if the system is not entirely intuitive (best, of course), training on this could be one part of a workshop (or series of workshops) for churches and other such groups on engaging the community through e-resources, which could include other web-related stuff, along with training on how to post to this new service to help their space be used to help the community.
Come to think of it, the data actually is kind of secondary. It seems to me that the upfront work put into the design of something like this will determine its acceptance, popularity, and usefulness for the long haul. I'm interested!
Kathy
Kathy Ahlers
data nerd
<kathy...@gmail.com>
@futurvue
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Tim Erickson
Mar 1, 2016, 5:48:56 PM3/1/16
to Open Twin Cities, Bill Bushey
I’ve proposed this idea from last October as a possible project for GeoCode this weekend. Curious if anyone has any interest in feedback in this proposal?
Best wishes,
Tim Erickson
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