Mac Yosemite: menu icon issues on multiple screens when changing screen focus

[Jonathan Winters]

I did some searching and could not find this elsewhere.

I have 3 screens: 2x 27" Thunderbolt and the main 15" display on my MacBook Pro. Whenever I change focus to a different screen, the Tunnelblick icon disappears / reappears, and the entire menu bar has to redraw:

http://www.screencast.com/t/38C9BKHU7O

The video is about 1 minute long, and through the video I simply am changing focus between screens. If you watch it to the end, you'll see a few different variations of what it looks like.

When I quit Tunnelblick the menubar seems to not need to redraw every time (which is what makes me think it is Tunnelblick).

I'm in 'Dark' mode currently, but this happened in the other lighter mode, too.

Has anyone else encountered this? Or, does anyone have a fix?

[jkbull...gmail.com]

I have sent a link to a "snapshot" (pre-release version of Tunnelblick) that may address the problem with the Tunnelblick icon disappearing/reappearing by a private email to Jonathan Winters.

Anyone else with this problem should email me privately at my Gmail address, jkbullard, to get a link.

[Jonathan Winters]

Brilliant -- that did the trick. Thanks so much for the fix and the super fast response!!

[jkbull...gmail.com]

The fix is included in Tunnelblick 3.5beta02.

You can download it from the Tunnelblick Downloads page. Or you can put a check in the "Check for updates to beta versions" checkbox in a recent version of Tunnelblick, then click the  "Check Now" button.

[Richard K Miller]

I'm currently seeing this issue too, on Mac OS X 10.10.3 and Tunnelblick 3.5.0 (build 4265). I'm running 3 external displays. Whichever display has focus does NOT have the Tunnelblick icon, while the other two displays DO have the icon. If I click on one of the other displays, attempting to click the Tunnelblick icon, the icon disappears as that monitor gains focus -- whack-a-mole-style. 

I believe the issue began within the last 2 weeks, either when I upgraded to 10.10.3 or Tunnelblick 3.5.0 (I can't remember.)

Functionally, Tunnelblick works fine if I open the full application. I.e., I can still connect to VPNs.

Richard

[jkbull...gmail.com]

Hi Richard, thanks for the report. Sounds like a nightmare!

Have you tried the "Place next to Spotlight icon" checkbox on Tunnelblick's "Appearances" tab? (That option may not be available if "Displays have separate Spaces" is checked, see https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tunnelblick-discuss/jbwe3Dz8D1E/pCinOk9eGuwJ).

To clarify, if you click on the Tunnelblick icon on a display that does not have the focus, you don't get the drop down menu and the icon disappears? Or is it "only" when you click on something else on the display first that the icon disappears?

Could you please run the following command in Terminal, to see what version of Tunnelblick you upgraded from?

defaults read net.tunnelblick.tunnelblick tunnelblickVersionHistory

[Richard K Miller]

Turning off "Displays have separate Spaces" has fixed it! It works both with "Places next to Spotlight icon" checked or unchecked. Thanks for your help!

For reference here is my version history:

(

    "3.5.0 (build 4265)",

    "3.4.4 (build 4055.4236)",

    "3.4.3 (build 4055.4198)",

    "3.4.2 (build 4055.4161)",

    "3.4.1 (build 4054)",

    "3.4.0 (build 4007)",

    "3.3.4 (build 3518.3872)",

    "3.3.2 (build 3518.3792)",

    "3.3.0 (build 3518)",

    "3.3beta56 (build 3515)"

)

Richard

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[cfi...@gmail.com]

Hi,

I'm having this problem as well on Yosemite (10.10.3 but it was a problem on 10.10.2 as well). I'm really averse to turning off 'Displays have separate Spaces' because of the way I have my desktops laid out, but to comment on your question:

> To clarify, if you click on the Tunnelblick icon on a display that does not have the focus, you don't get the drop down menu and the icon disappears? 

This is the behavior I see. On the non-focused display I see the icon but it disappears when I click on it. It simply makes that the focused display and the icon is becomes visible on the other one.

One other datapoint that may or may not be interesting: On the non-focused display the Tunnelblick icon -is- next to the Spotlight icon, despite the option being unchecked and greyed out in the Tunnelblick Appearance pane. My memory is not 100% clear but I may have imported the config from a Mavericks backup (which did not have this problem, even though I see the comment that Mavericks is when the functionality became unreliable).

My version history:

(
"3.5.0 (build 4265)",
"3.4.4 (build 4055.4236)",
"3.4.3 (build 4055.4198)"

)

I will contact you directly at your Gmail address as requested to see if the fix works for me, but also wanted to put my specific system conditions out there for reference.

Thanks,

-c

[jkbull...gmail.com]

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 4:43:49 PM UTC-4, cfi...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm having this problem as well on Yosemite (10.10.3 but it was a problem on 10.10.2 as well). I'm really averse to turning off 'Displays have separate Spaces' because of the way I have my desktops laid out, but to comment on your question:

> To clarify, if you click on the Tunnelblick icon on a display that does not have the focus, you don't get the drop down menu and the icon disappears? 

This is the behavior I see. On the non-focused display I see the icon but it disappears when I click on it. It simply makes that the focused display and the icon is becomes visible on the other one.

Thanks, that does clarify it.

One other datapoint that may or may not be interesting: On the non-focused display the Tunnelblick icon -is- next to the Spotlight icon, despite the option being unchecked and greyed out in the Tunnelblick Appearance pane. My memory is not 100% clear but I may have imported the config from a Mavericks backup (which did not have this problem, even though I see the comment that Mavericks is when the functionality became unreliable).

Very interesting and peculiar. I'll look into that. These are two separate problems: the problem displaying near the Spotlight icon, and the problem of the icon disappearing when you click on it.

I will contact you directly at your Gmail address as requested to see if the fix works for me, but also wanted to put my specific system conditions out there for reference.

The fix referred to in my 2014-11-17 comment was included in Tunnelblick 3.5beta02, and it is included the current stable release, 3.5.0, that you are using. So a snapshot wouldn't help you.

There isn't any fix that I'm aware of to the problem that you describe: that the Tunnelblick icon disappears on the screen that gets focus if "Displays have separate Spaces" is checked.

Now that the problem has been narrowed down to this particular situation, I will look into it. I'm hoping I can reproduce it with a laptop and a single attached display because that's all I can set up. Jonathan and Richard each have three screens; how many do you have?

One thing you can do in the meantime: Try using Tunnelblick's keyboard shortcut: Command-Option-F1 pops down the Tunnelblick menu (as if you had clicked on the icon). (Remember to use the "fn" key to get F1 on some keyboards, so it is really Command-Option-fn-F1.) Then you can use the up- and down-arrow keys to select a menu command, and the "Return/Enter" key to execute the menu command. It would be interesting to know if the Tunnelblick icon disappears when you enter Command-Option-F1 on the keyboard, or if it only disappears when you click on it.

[ME]

I was looking for this issue and ended up here. Let's chime in to open questions:

I've got this issue with two displays. MacBook Pro internal and Cinema-Display external. Main display is the internal screen. I have separate Spaces enabled. OS X 10.10.3 and Tunnelblick 3.5.0 (build 4265).

When my focus is on the internal Display i have an icon on both screens next to Spotlight. As soon as my external Display gains focus i have no icon there but two icons on the internal display. They're sitting next to each other. Hitting Comand-Option-(fn-)F1 then opens the Tunnelblick menu on the internal (inactive) display.

I hope i could help.

[jkbull...gmail.com]

Thanks for the info, "ME", especially about the "two icons on the internal display" and the response to Command-Option-(fn)F1.

It would help to know what happens if you do not have "Place next to Spotlight icon" checked in the "Appearance" panel of Tunnelblick's "VPN Details…" window.

[ME]

Ok i wanted to test that, but the option to "Place next to Spotlight icon" is unchecked and grayed out.

[jkbull...gmail.com]

OK, this is very odd. I cannot reproduce this behavior. Here is what I see on a MacBook Pro with one external display:

With "Displays have separate spaces"

Checked: 

I have the menu bar on each display; one is dimmed, the other not.

"Place next to Spotlight icon" is un-checked, dimmed, and cannot be changed. 

The TB icon is on the left, not close to the Spotlight icon.

Clicking on the dimmed Tunnelblick icon works properly.

Unchecked:

I have the menu bar on only one display.

"Place next to Spotlight icon" is checked and not dimmed. 

The TB icon is on the right, close to the Spotlight icon.

Clicking on the Tunnelblick icon works properly.

I can put a check in the "Place next to Spotlight icon" and the icon moves to the left; clicking the icon still works properly.

All of the above the way that Tunnelblick should behave and is what I see on a fresh install of OS X 10.10.3.

One particularly odd thing that "ME" describes is that, with "Displays have separate spaces" checked:

"Place next to Spotlight icon" is un-checked, dimmed, and cannot be changed. 

The TB icon is on the right, close to the Spotlight icon.

 

That is not only odd, but it may be why the "whack-a-mole" behavior is happening. Tunnelblick should not allow this. (There is a bug in Mavericks that hasn't been fixed in Yosemite that causes odd behavior when TB icon is on the right and "Displays have separate spaces" is checked.)

 

I don't see how Tunnelblick can do that (from looking at the source code), unless there is a bug that I can't see or which has to do with your Tunnelblick "preferences" being corrupted.

Please check the OS X "Displays have separate spaces" preference that Tunnelblick checks, by copy/pasting the following into Terminal:

defaults    read    com.apple.spaces    spans-displays

and post the results.

One thing to try would be to quit Tunnelblick, then clear the relevant Tunnelblick preference by copy/pasting the following in Terminal:

defaults    delete    net.tunnelblick.tunnelblick    placeIconInStandardPositionInStatusBar

(Tunnelblick will recreate the preference with the correct value if necessary the next time it is launched.)

If that doesn't help, try setting the relevant preference to what it should be with "Displays have separate spaces" checked:

defaults    write    net.tunnelblick.tunnelblick    placeIconInStandardPositionInStatusBar -bool no

[jkbull...gmail.com]

I don't know why the lines wrapped, but all of the Terminal commands should be on a single line. When I copy/paste they are, but they don't look that way when I look at my post.

[Clay Fiske]

So just the other day the 10.10.3 supplemental update came through. I didn’t see anything listed that seemed like it should specifically affect this, but since applying that (and the associated reboot) my Tunnelblick icon has returned to being among the other status bar icons and not over by Spotlight. It now correctly appears on both displays and is clickable/usable as normal.

It’s possible the reboot cleaned up something, but prior to this that issue had persisted through reboots.

In any case, thanks for engaging on this. I’ll keep an eye on it.

Thanks,

-c

[ME]

Here are the outputs of the commands:

BookPro:~ ME$ defaults    read    com.apple.spaces    spans-displays

2015-04-24 08:22:18.234 defaults[11451:848367] 

The domain/default pair of (/Users/ME/Library/Preferences/com.apple.spaces, spans-displays) does not exist

Next i've quit Tunnelblick and ran:

BookPro:~ ME$ defaults    delete    net.tunnelblick.tunnelblick    placeIconInStandardPositionInStatusBar

2015-04-24 08:24:26.728 defaults[11482:850464] 

Domain (net.tunnelblick.tunnelblick) not found.

Defaults have not been changed.

Yeah that puzzled ME. But anyway i finally ran the last command to see if that would create the domain and help Tunnelblick behave. That command did not return any message btw.

After restarting Tunnelblick i have a TB icon to the left (not near Spotlight) and they stay on their displays regardless of which is focused. "Place next to Spotlight icon" is still un-checked, dimmed, and cannot be changed.

Well i'm happy now that my Icon is "behaving" normally again. I hope any of this is helpful to anyone.

[jkbull...gmail.com]

ME, thanks for your report.

The "The domain/default pair of (/Users/ME/Library/Preferences/com.apple.spaces, spans-displays) does not exist" message akes sense if you have never un-checked the "Displays have separate spaces" checkbox, so that's OK.

However, the "Domain (net.tunnelblick.tunnelblick) not found" message does not make sense. Whenever you run Tunnelblick, the preferences should be recreated if they do not exist, resulting in the creation of the net.tunnelblick.tunnelblick "domain" (actually, what is created is a .plist in ~/Library/Preferences). And Tunnelblick doesn't delete its preferences when it quits, of course (that would sort of delete the purpose of preferences!)

So something odd was going on with your Tunnelblick preferences. The 

defaults    write    net.tunnelblick.tunnelblick    placeIconInStandardPositionInStatusBar -bool no

 command would, indeed, create the preferences if they didn't exist. It's interesting that doing that solved the problem.

So it looks like your Tunnelblick preferences were, in some sense, missing (!) and recreating them fixed things. The only thing I can think of is that OS X's "cache" of preferences was somehow corrupted and made them appear to be missing even though the file existed. Doing the "defaults write…" command must have cleared that up (most "defaults" commands reload the cache, as I understand it).

I will double-check the Tunnelblick code that deals with this stuff, though. Thanks again for your report.

[Clay Fiske]

Ok so I stand corrected. It -was- working fine briefly. Now it’s back to the same issue. I don’t think there was a reboot in between when it worked fine and when it stopped, but there was some switching between single and dual monitors. In my case, single refers to the built-in display and dual refers to two external displays with the laptop lid closed, if that matters at all.

Thanks,

-c

[jkbull...gmail.com]

There is a system process that controls the status bar. It is easy and quick to restart it in Activity Monitor:

1. View > View All Processes
   
2. Select "SystemUIServer"
   
3. View > Quit Process (Why is that on the "View" menu????)
   
4. Click "Quit" in the popup window.

The process will quit but be immediately restarted. Please try it and see if that helps, even temporarily.

[Clay Fiske]

No joy. I see it restart and redraw the menu bar, but same issue.

-c

[jkbull...gmail.com]

Clay - where is the Tunnelblick icon? On the right or the left?

What does the "Appearances" panel of Tunnelblick's "VPN Details…" window show for the "Place next to Spotlight icon" checkbox? (Is it dimmed? Is it checked?)

If you can, please quit Tunnelblick and execute the following in Terminal (copy/paste should work fine):

defaults read net.tunnelblick.tunnelblick

(it will spit out a lot of stuff; you can ignore all of it).

And see if the problem is still happening. ("defaults read" is supposed to reset the preferences cache, so maybe it will fix the problem.)

If not, then please quit Tunnelblick (again), execute the following, and post the output (which should be a single line with either "0" or "1"):

defaults read net.tunnelblick.tunnelblick placeIconInStandardPositionInStatusBar 

On Monday, April 27, 2015 at 2:38:21 PM UTC-4, Clay Fiske wrote:

No joy. I see it restart and redraw the menu bar, but same issue.

-c

[Clay Fiske]

So I haven’t had a lot of time to look at this lately but it’s still happening.

To catch up to current status, I am on 10.10.4 right now, running Tunnelblick 3.5.3 (build 4270.4371). On the monitor which has “focus” the Tunnelblick icon isn’t there at all. On the other monitor it’s over by the Spotlight icon and greyed (like all the menubar icons are on the non-focused monitor). If I mouse over and click it, it disappears (as that monitor gains focus) and appears on the opposite monitor (now non-focused).

As I type, here’s my active menubar:

and my inactive:

and here’s the Tunnelblick option:

As for your suggestions, the first command does spit out a bunch of stuff. However it’s not clear if that by itself did the trick because another time just restarting Tunnelblick was sufficient to clear the issue. The second command gives me this:

2015-07-24 10:05:39.724 defaults[3067:656861]

The domain/default pair of (/Users/clay_fiske/Library/Preferences/net.tunnelblick.tunnelblick, placeIconInStandardPositionInStatusBar) does not exist

One thing I see in the large output from the first command is this:

    statusDisplayNumber = 0;

Not sure whether that’s relevant. In general the problem seems to be triggered by display changes (connecting or disconnecting the additional monitor). It’s not clear at this point whether sleeping the laptop with one display and waking it with two (or vice versa) has any effect or if it’s just any display change that does it. At one point I ended up with the working icon always staying on the first display (whether focused or not) -and- a whack-a-mole icon on the unfocused display. When the first display was unfocused I saw this:

Sorry if I’m just spewing random info here. Trying to think of anything that might help narrow it down. Please advise if you’d like any additional info or for me to run further commands.

Thanks,

-c

[jkbull...gmail.com]

Clay, thanks for your very clear report. Comments below.

On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 1:33:45 PM UTC-4, Clay Fiske wrote:

So I haven’t had a lot of time to look at this lately but it’s still happening.

To catch up to current status, I am on 10.10.4 right now, running Tunnelblick 3.5.3 (build 4270.4371). On the monitor which has “focus” the Tunnelblick icon isn’t there at all. On the other monitor it’s over by the Spotlight icon and greyed (like all the menubar icons are on the non-focused monitor). If I mouse over and click it, it disappears (as that monitor gains focus) and appears on the opposite monitor (now non-focused).

It is very odd that the icon on the inactive monitor has the Tunnelblick icon near the Spotlight icon, because according to the screenshot of the Tunnelblick option, it should be in the standard position (i.e., placed to the left of other icons when Tunnelblick is launched).

As I type, here’s my active menubar:

and my inactive:

These screenshots are interesting. Could it be that the Tunnelblick icon on the "active" screen is there, but is so far left that it doesn't show up? See if you can temporarily disable some of the icons (Time Machine, WiFi, iStat Menu, etc. so you clearly have empty space for icons on the left. (I think they're from iStat Menus: the "NET", "MEM", "CPU", etc. are what I'm talking about, but you could disable some of the other icons so you have space.)

and here’s the Tunnelblick option:

As for your suggestions, the first command does spit out a bunch of stuff. However it’s not clear if that by itself did the trick because another time just restarting Tunnelblick was sufficient to clear the issue.

Do you mean that the first command did (at least temporarily) fix the problem? And that another way to fix the problem is to restart Tunnelblick?

The second command gives me this:

2015-07-24 10:05:39.724 defaults[3067:656861]

The domain/default pair of (/Users/clay_fiske/Library/Preferences/net.tunnelblick.tunnelblick, placeIconInStandardPositionInStatusBar) does not exist

That agrees with the screenshot showing the "Place next to Spotlight icon" checkbox being unchecked and dimmed.

  

One thing I see in the large output from the first command is this:

    statusDisplayNumber = 0;

Not sure whether that’s relevant.

It isn't. That controls on what screen Tunnelblick puts the "status display" (the little window with a black background that shows the status of a configuration).

 

In general the problem seems to be triggered by display changes (connecting or disconnecting the additional monitor). It’s not clear at this point whether sleeping the laptop with one display and waking it with two (or vice versa) has any effect or if it’s just any display change that does it. At one point I ended up with the working icon always staying on the first display (whether focused or not) -and- a whack-a-mole icon on the unfocused display. When the first display was unfocused I saw this:

Hmmm. That's very odd indeed: two icons. I wonder if having too many icons on the active screen causes them to overflow to the inactive screen or something weird like that.

Sorry if I’m just spewing random info here. Trying to think of anything that might help narrow it down. Please advise if you’d like any additional info or for me to run further commands.

All your info was very interesting, and definitely not random!

Thanks,

-c

I can't reproduce this with my single laptop screen with one external monitor. I've re-examined the code that displays the icon, and can't see anything odd about it, so I'm relying on those who have the problem to help me isolate it. Thanks for your help.

[den...@stjernholmco.dk]

I can confirm that the issue is still there. I have a MacBook Pro Retina, connected to 2 external screens. The Tunnelblick icon is only present at the inactive screens, but not on the active screen.

As far as I can see the issue comes when the MBP has been put to sleep and then attach the screens and then wake up the MBP. But I am not sure. But its something related to sleep.

My version of TunnelBlick is 3.6beta08 (build 4371)

OS X 10.10.4

[aba...@gmail.com]

I am also having issues, OSX 10.10.5 and Tunnelblick 3.5.3 (build 4270.4371).

Its really not consistent. In my case, I have a MBP Retina 13i 2015 with one external monitor through HDMI. I can see the tunnelblick icon next to the spotlight on my laptop monitor, which is secondary in this case) but not on my primary.

If I click on the laptop monitor to gain focus, the icon stays there and it appears on my external monitor as well where it was previously missing. As soon as I click back on the external monitor to focus on it, the menu icon disappear.

This is right now, I remember once that there was simply no icon anywhere, although tunnelblick was working. Even restarting it didn't help then.

[bag...@gmail.com]

Same problem for me:

[jkbull...gmail.com]

Please provide more information:

• Describe the problem you see. (It does not look the same as Jonathan Winters's problem.)
  
• Describe under what circumstances the problem occurs.
  
• Describe the number of screens you are using.
  
• Describe your software versions (OS X and Tunnelblick).
  
• Describe the state of the "Displays have different spaces" checkbox (Mission Control in System Preferences).
  
• Describe any other software you have installed which may be relevant: security software such as anti-virus, menu-bar software such as Bartender, etc.
  

[bag...@gmail.com]

Hi,

The problem I see i that when I’ve another screen connected to may MacBook pro (the external screen is set as primary), Tunnelblick icon is not present the external/primary screen bar, but there are two icons in the internal/secondary screen.

If i close Tunnelblick and reopen it, all the icons are ok.

OSX version:

Tunnel Blick version: 3.5.4 (build 4270.4395)

There is only one space.

[bag...@gmail.com]

Sorry i forget osx version: 10.10.5

[jkbull...gmail.com]

I can't reproduce this on my 10.10.5 MacBook Pro mid-2012 with an external monitor.

Please

• Describe the state of the "Displays have different spaces" checkbox (Mission Control in System Preferences). It should be disabled and not checked.
  

• Describe any other software you have installed which may be relevant: security software such as anti-virus, menu-bar software such as Bartender, etc.

What do you mean by "Primary screen"? The screen with the Dock, the screen with the menu bar, or both?

Do either or both of the Tunnelblick icons respond to clicks? Does either do anything when you "hover" the mouse over them?

What happens if you hold the "fn", "command", and "option", and press the "F1" key? (That should pop down a menu from one or the other of the icons, but not both.)

Does Activity Monitor show only one instance of Tunnelblick running, or two?

Does this two-icons problem happen:

• When you have the external screen connected at boot or only when you connect it after boot?
  
• If you have it connected when Tunnelblick is launched?
  
• When you connect the external screen while Tunnelblick is already running?
  
• If you quit Tunnelblick and relaunch it?
  

[quadra...@gmail.com]

I have a similar issue on OS 10.10.5 with Tunnelblick 3.6beta10 (build 4400). The problem only started with the last TB update.

In my case, the icon will not stay hard-right where I've moved it with apple-click-drag, but moves left to the far end of all my icons. It will stay for a few minutes, but then moves on its own.

I use Bartender to manage my icons. The "Place next to Spotlight" option is greyed out for me.

This issue is *exactly* the same to a previous issue with the Tunnelblick icon several releases past. If I remember correctly, what I was told then by a most awesome dev is that the icon is constantly being redrawn in the menu bar. An older beta fixed this behaviour.

[jkbull...gmail.com]

Thanks for your observations.

The reason that the "Place next to Spotlight" option is greyed out is that it has proven to be unstable on all versions of OS X up to 10.11.1 if there are multiple monitors and "Displays have different spaces" is checked in the Mission Control system preferences. I don't think the problem is a priority for Apple, so I doubt it will be fixed by them.

Under some situations (certain display changes, waking up from sleep, etc.) Tunnelblick deletes and recreates its icon. The icon should not be being deleted and recreated except when such changes happen. It sounds like Bartender isn't dealing with the deletion/recreation properly.

[bag...@gmail.com]

Ok, problem it was related to the "Place next to Spotlight" option. Also for me it was grayed out and no check. But It was enabled before.

So i opened the configuration file and manually disabled the option.

At the moment it seems that the problem disappeared.

I'll let you know.

[jkbull...gmail.com]

@baglini -

Thanks for your input. Some questions:

• What version of OS X are you using?
  
• What version of Tunnelblick?
  
• Do you have Bartender installed? If so, what version?
  
• How did you "manually disable" the "Place next to Spotlight" option?
  

[bag...@gmail.com]

My reply below.

Please note that I just upgraded MacOSX to El Capitain and now Tunnelblick Icon moved near Spotlight Icon.

Actually I haven’t teste with external monitor.

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 12:59:27 PM UTC+2, jkbull...gmail.com wrote:

@baglini -

Thanks for your input. Some questions:

• What version of OS X are you using? 10.10.5
  
• What version of Tunnelblick? 3.5.4
  
• Do you have Bartender installed? If so, what version? NO
  
• How did you "manually disable" the "Place next to Spotlight" option? I opened the file ~/Library/Preferences/net.tunnelblick.tunnelblick.plist
  

[jkbull...gmail.com]

Thanks, baglini.

I have started two new threads to discuss icon problems and locked this discussion.

• Icon placement problems when Bartender is installed
  
  
• Icon placement problems when Bartender is NOT installed
  

On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 8:39:25 AM UTC-4, <> wrote:

My reply below.

<snip>