Analytic accounting on projects/timesheets

[sampac]

Is anyone working on / is there any plans to have analytic accounting
on projects/timesheet in a near future ?

[Cédric Krier]

On 22/07/12 23:42 -0700, sampac wrote:
> Is anyone working on / is there any plans to have analytic accounting
> on projects/timesheet in a near future ?

What do you mean?

--
Cédric Krier

B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Email/Jabber: cedric...@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/

[sampac]

I need to impact on analytic accounts when an employee enters
timesheets for a project.

I imagine something like:
- declare an analytic_account.account.selection at the level of the
project.work
- create move for the selected analytic accounts when an employee
enters times in timesheets
- still unclear what should be the amount impacted ? the employee cost
declared with project-revenue... ?

On 23 juil, 09:25, Cédric Krier <cedric.kr...@b2ck.com> wrote:
> On 22/07/12 23:42 -0700, sampac wrote:
>
> > Is anyone working on / is there any plans to have analytic accounting
> > on projects/timesheet in a near future ?
>
> What do you mean?
>
> --
> Cédric Krier
>
> B2CK SPRL
> Rue de Rotterdam, 4
> 4000 Liège
> Belgium
> Tel: +32 472 54 46 59

> Email/Jabber: cedric.kr...@b2ck.com
> Website:http://www.b2ck.com/
>
>  application_pgp-signature_part
> < 1 000AfficherTélécharger

[Cédric Krier]

On 23/07/12 02:09 -0700, sampac wrote:
> I need to impact on analytic accounts when an employee enters
> timesheets for a project.
>
> I imagine something like:
> - declare an analytic_account.account.selection at the level of the
> project.work
> - create move for the selected analytic accounts when an employee
> enters times in timesheets
> - still unclear what should be the amount impacted ? the employee cost
> declared with project-revenue... ?

I don't think it is possible because analityc moves must be linked to
accounting moves.

PS: Please don't top-post on this mailing list. See
http://groups.tryton.org/netiquette

--
Cédric Krier

B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59

Email/Jabber: cedric...@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/

[sampac]

On 23 juil, 11:23, Cédric Krier <cedric.kr...@b2ck.com> wrote:
> On 23/07/12 02:09 -0700, sampac wrote:
>
> > I need to impact on analytic accounts when an employee enters
> > timesheets for a project.
>
> > I imagine something like:
> > - declare an analytic_account.account.selection at the level of the
> > project.work
> > - create move for the selected analytic accounts when an employee
> > enters times in timesheets
> > - still unclear what should be the amount impacted ? the employee cost
> > declared with project-revenue... ?
>
> I don't think it is possible because analityc moves must be linked to
> accounting moves.
>

Sorry for top posting (again)... would be nice if it can be
default :-/

I see the issue.
So what would be for you the solution to include "time based" project
costs in analytic accounting ?

[lists.j...@symetrie.com]

Hi,

Le 23 juil. 2012 à 11:23, Cédric Krier a écrit :
> On 23/07/12 02:09 -0700, sampac wrote:
>> I need to impact on analytic accounts when an employee enters
>> timesheets for a project.
>>
>> I imagine something like:
>> - declare an analytic_account.account.selection at the level of the
>> project.work
>> - create move for the selected analytic accounts when an employee
>> enters times in timesheets
>> - still unclear what should be the amount impacted ? the employee cost
>> declared with project-revenue... ?
>
> I don't think it is possible because analityc moves must be linked to
> accounting moves.

I face the same problem. I need to convert timesheet into amounts (conventional rates per employee should be entered) and report totals by projects. And for a complicated rights management, I need a second analytic plan to store analytic accounts computed by a wizard (hundreds of analytic moves to write here) ; some reports will be generated ; and five lines will be written back in accounting moves. I don't want to have these hundreds of moves in account, because I will have to pay my accountant per move to check them.

Why should analytic moves be linked to accounting moves ?

Jean-Christophe Michel
--
Symétrie
livres et partitions, édition multimédia
30 rue Jean-Baptiste Say
69001 LYON (FRANCE)

tél +33 (0)478 29 52 14
fax +33 (0)478 30 01 11
web www.symetrie.com

[Cédric Krier]

Indeed the issue is about creating the analytic moves out of the real
payroll accounting move.
Why not having a wizard that do it by looking at the timesheet over a
period?

[Cédric Krier]

On 24/07/12 10:34 +0200, lists.j...@symetrie.com wrote:
> Why should analytic moves be linked to accounting moves ?

This was choosen by experiences (on a other unnamed software) where
analytic lines where created without any link to real accounting. At the
end we got mismatching like too much "money" in the analytic chart.
So by forcing to have a real account move to create an analytic one, we
ensure the traceability.

[lists.j...@symetrie.com]

Hi,

Le 24 juil. 2012 à 21:43, Cédric Krier a écrit :
> On 24/07/12 10:34 +0200, lists.j...@symetrie.com wrote:
>> Why should analytic moves be linked to accounting moves ?
>
> This was choosen by experiences (on a other unnamed software) where
> analytic lines where created without any link to real accounting. At the
> end we got mismatching like too much "money" in the analytic chart.
> So by forcing to have a real account move to create an analytic one, we
> ensure the traceability.

I understand this purpose. But in many analytic courses, employees hours are valuated.
And in many companies, the real count of working hours does not necessarily match the number paid, so it will be hard to have analytic moves corresponding to working hours totalize to the salary amounts...

If we need a disconnected analytic, and our accountant is ok with this, what would be the best way to proceed ?

[sampac]

From what I tested I understand that several analytic lines can point
to the same accounting move from different analytic "dimension". But
analytic lines have the same amount as the accounting move they point
to.

Are you suggesting to have several analytic lines from the same
analytic dimension pointing to the same accounting move ?

Because my understanding is that a payroll generated accounting move
is one per month per employee. But a given employee has worked on many
projects so there are many analytic lines to point to this payroll
accounting move ?

By the way, what is the status of a payroll module for Tryton ?

[Cédric Krier]

On 25/07/12 01:22 -0700, sampac wrote:
> From what I tested I understand that several analytic lines can point
> to the same accounting move from different analytic "dimension".

Yes.

> But
> analytic lines have the same amount as the accounting move they point
> to.

No. There are no check on that (but I think it will be good to have a
report for that to allow accountance to fix it).

> Are you suggesting to have several analytic lines from the same
> analytic dimension pointing to the same accounting move ?

Yes.

> Because my understanding is that a payroll generated accounting move
> is one per month per employee. But a given employee has worked on many
> projects so there are many analytic lines to point to this payroll
> accounting move ?

Yes.

> By the way, what is the status of a payroll module for Tryton ?

Don't know. But such module is not required to have what I describe.

--
Cédric Krier

B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59

Email/Jabber: cedric...@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/

[Cédric Krier]

On 24/07/12 22:39 +0200, lists.j...@symetrie.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Le 24 juil. 2012 à 21:43, Cédric Krier a écrit :
> > On 24/07/12 10:34 +0200, lists.j...@symetrie.com wrote:
> >> Why should analytic moves be linked to accounting moves ?
> >
> > This was choosen by experiences (on a other unnamed software) where
> > analytic lines where created without any link to real accounting. At the
> > end we got mismatching like too much "money" in the analytic chart.
> > So by forcing to have a real account move to create an analytic one, we
> > ensure the traceability.
>
> I understand this purpose. But in many analytic courses, employees hours are valuated.
> And in many companies, the real count of working hours does not necessarily match the number paid, so it will be hard to have analytic moves corresponding to working hours totalize to the salary amounts...

That's not a problem because you just have to allocate proportionally.

> If we need a disconnected analytic, and our accountant is ok with this, what would be the best way to proceed ?

What is the goal to disconnect it because then it will not represent the
real values.

[Dominique Chabord]

Hi

Le 25/07/2012 11:05, Cédric Krier a écrit :

> That's not a problem because you just have to allocate proportionally.
>

Well, I 'm not convinced by a direct relation between wages and costs.
Costs include supplies, tools, management ... Either this cost is an
input or it is calculated by a new function (extra module).
Maybe in some specific case it can be calculated from wages only.

Another point is to preserve analytic accounting integrity. We have it,
we shouldn't loose it.

I thing we could have a kind of "project manager's executive summary'
module combining wisely timesheets/projects data and analytic accounting
data.
This function needs to compare planned and reality and detect spreads,
calculate project balance and keep the file of the project (list of events).

my 2cts
regards


--
Dominique Chabord - SISalp

[lists.j...@symetrie.com]

Hi,

Le 25 juil. 2012 à 11:31, Dominique Chabord a écrit :
> I thing we could have a kind of "project manager's executive summary'
> module combining wisely timesheets/projects data and analytic accounting
> data.
> This function needs to compare planned and reality and detect spreads,
> calculate project balance and keep the file of the project (list of events).

I agree such a summary (xls or ods reports) mixing planned and reality would match what we need.
Dominique, would you want to start a blueprint if this idea fits Tryton's needs ?
I'd like to contribute to this and, if I'm able to, start to code this.

[Cédric Krier]

On 25/07/12 11:42 +0200, lists.j...@symetrie.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Le 25 juil. 2012 à 11:31, Dominique Chabord a écrit :
> > I thing we could have a kind of "project manager's executive summary'
> > module combining wisely timesheets/projects data and analytic accounting
> > data.
> > This function needs to compare planned and reality and detect spreads,
> > calculate project balance and keep the file of the project (list of events).
>
> I agree such a summary (xls or ods reports) mixing planned and reality would match what we need.
> Dominique, would you want to start a blueprint if this idea fits Tryton's needs ?
> I'd like to contribute to this and, if I'm able to, start to code this.

Did you already have a look at project_revenue ?
I think it could be extended to sum also the amount of an analytic
account.

[Albert Cervera i Areny]

A Dimecres, 25 de juliol de 2012 11:05:39, C�dric Krier va escriure:

> On 24/07/12 22:39 +0200, lists.j...@symetrie.com wrote:

> > Hi,

> >

> > Le 24 juil. 2012 � 21:43, C�dric Krier a �crit :

> > > On 24/07/12 10:34 +0200, lists.j...@symetrie.com wrote:

> > >> Why should analytic moves be linked to accounting moves ?

> > >

> > > This was choosen by experiences (on a other unnamed software) where

> > > analytic lines where created without any link to real accounting. At

> > > the end we got mismatching like too much "money" in the analytic

> > > chart. So by forcing to have a real account move to create an analytic

> > > one, we ensure the traceability.

> >

> > I understand this purpose. But in many analytic courses, employees hours

> > are valuated. And in many companies, the real count of working hours

> > does not necessarily match the number paid, so it will be hard to have

> > analytic moves corresponding to working hours totalize to the salary

> > amounts...

>

> That's not a problem because you just have to allocate proportionally.

 

Some companies prefer to put the difference in a write-off (unsure if it's the correct English term) analytic account.

 

But I agree that having analytic accounting linked to accounting moves is a good thing.

--

Albert Cervera i Areny

http://www.NaN-tic.com

Tel: +34 93 553 18 03

 

http://twitter.com/albertnan

http://www.nan-tic.com/blog