Netiquette and Top-post
Cédric Krier
It seems there is a lot of new comers on this mailing list.
So I want remind you the rules about posting on mailing list (netiquette).
http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php
Especially the top-posting rule which is the more annoying one.
If someone continue to top-post, I will take my moderator right and put his
email address under moderation and only correct email will be accepted.
Thanks,
--
Cédric Krier
B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Email/Jabber: cedric...@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/
Dominique Chabord
must read below to understand.
Le 30/06/2011 11:44, C�dric Krier a �crit :
I delet the text I'm not answering to, to keep it simple
>
> Especially the top-posting rule which is the more annoying one.
I'll take care to put my comment inside the text I'm answering to.
>
> If someone continue to top-post, I will take my moderator right and put his
> email address under moderation and only correct email will be accepted.
>
> Thanks,
Adding just "I agree" here after a long text is also a loss of time for
readers
Am I correct ?
--
Dominique Chabord - SISalp
Cédric Krier
> I'll no longer put answers here, on top of the message because readers
> must read below to understand.
>
>
> I delet the text I'm not answering to, to keep it simple
> >
> > Especially the top-posting rule which is the more annoying one.
>
> I'll take care to put my comment inside the text I'm answering to.
> >
> > If someone continue to top-post, I will take my moderator right and put his
> > email address under moderation and only correct email will be accepted.
> >
> > Thanks,
>
> Adding just "I agree" here after a long text is also a loss of time for
> readers
>
> Am I correct ?
Yes all is explain in the link I posted.
Paul J Stevens
> Hi,
>
> It seems there is a lot of new comers on this mailing list.
> So I want remind you the rules about posting on mailing list (netiquette).
>
> http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php
>
> Especially the top-posting rule which is the more annoying one.
It doesn't annoy me at all.
>
> If someone continue to top-post, I will take my moderator right and put his
> email address under moderation and only correct email will be accepted.
You're free to impose any policy you wish since you are the list-owner.
But this is one big -1 IMO.
There is *nothing* inherently evil about top-posting. Most modern (and
mobile) email clients will do it by-default. Gmail anyone?
There are some excellent arguments in favour of top-posting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
--
________________________________________________________________
Paul J Stevens pjstevns @ gmail, twitter, skype, linkedin
* Premium Hosting Services and Web Application Consultancy *
www.nfg.nl/in...@nfg.nl/+31.85.877.99.97
________________________________________________________________
Cédric Krier
> On 06/30/2011 11:44 AM, "Cédric Krier" <cedric...@b2ck.com>" wrote:
> There is *nothing* inherently evil about top-posting. Most modern (and
> mobile) email clients will do it by-default. Gmail anyone?
I can say that most (principal) of the Tryton devs don't use "modern"
(bloated) email clients. (Don't want to start a flame wars :-)
I don't see good arguments except that "Outlook" put the cursor on top when
replying. ;-)
Dr. Axel Braun
> I don't see good arguments except that "Outlook" put the cursor on top when
> replying. ;-)
...and Notes as well. Stupid mailers for the masses
[SCNR]
--
Dr.-Ing. Axel K. Braun
Mobile: +49.173.7003.154
VoIP/Skype: axxite
PGP Fingerprint: CB03 964D 1CFA E87B AA63 53F3 1BD6 F53A EB48 EF22
Public Key available at http://www.axxite.com/axel....@gmx.de.asc
This mail was *not scanned* before sending.
It was sent from a secure Linux desktop.
Cédric Krier
> > If someone continue to top-post, I will take my moderator right and put his
> > email address under moderation and only correct email will be accepted.
>
> You're free to impose any policy you wish since you are the list-owner.
> But this is one big -1 IMO.
But we need convention to ease the discussion on the mailing list otherwise
each one will apply his own rule/style (it is like using the same coding
convention for a development).
The netiquette is the oldest one I know and is commonly approved.
zodman
Cédric Krier
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Cédric Krier <cedric...@b2ck.com> wrote:
> > On 30/06/11 17:26 +0200, Paul J Stevens wrote:
> >> On 06/30/2011 11:44 AM, "Cédric Krier" <cedric...@b2ck.com>" wrote:
> >> > If someone continue to top-post, I will take my moderator right and put his
> >> > email address under moderation and only correct email will be accepted.
> >>
> >> You're free to impose any policy you wish since you are the list-owner.
> >> But this is one big -1 IMO.
> >
> > But we need convention to ease the discussion on the mailing list otherwise
> > each one will apply his own rule/style (it is like using the same coding
> > convention for a development).
> > The netiquette is the oldest one I know and is commonly approved.
>
See the email header (easy if you have a good email client) :-)
Answer: Mutt (of course)
zod...@gmail.com
----------------------------------------------
from: "Cédric Krier" <cedric...@b2ck.com>
date: Thu, Jun 30 07:30 PM +02:00 2011
to: try...@googlegroups.com
reply-to: try...@googlegroups.com
subject: Re: [tryton] Netiquette and Top-post
i will try it
Cédric Krier
> Hi,
>
> It seems there is a lot of new comers on this mailing list.
> So I want remind you the rules about posting on mailing list (netiquette).
>
> http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php
I would like to add attention about the topic #12 [1].
Don't use the reply-to-all button when answering to the mailing list, this is
really annoying to receive duplicate emails (and also not sorted).
Thanks.
[1] http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php#noprivate
Albert Cervera i Areny
A Dilluns, 19 de setembre de 2011 12:31:19, C�dric Krier va escriure:
> On 30/06/11 11:44 +0200, C�dric Krier wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > It seems there is a lot of new comers on this mailing list.
> > So I want remind you the rules about posting on mailing list
> > (netiquette).
> >
> > http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php
>
> I would like to add attention about the topic #12 [1].
> Don't use the reply-to-all button when answering to the mailing list, this
> is really annoying to receive duplicate emails (and also not sorted).
In some mailing lists (pgsql-hackers comes to mind) you're expected to replying to everyone. I think the reasoning behind this is that people get the response even if they're not subscribed. So, even if I understand you find it annoying (I do not like it either but receive those duplicated e-mails in those mailing lists) it is quite hard to remember to press the appropriate button depending on the mailing list you're in.
Cédric Krier
> A Dilluns, 19 de setembre de 2011 12:31:19, Cédric Krier va escriure:
> > On 30/06/11 11:44 +0200, Cédric Krier wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > It seems there is a lot of new comers on this mailing list.
> > > So I want remind you the rules about posting on mailing list
> > > (netiquette).
> > >
> > > http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php
> >
> > I would like to add attention about the topic #12 [1].
> > Don't use the reply-to-all button when answering to the mailing list, this
> > is really annoying to receive duplicate emails (and also not sorted).
>
> In some mailing lists (pgsql-hackers comes to mind) you're expected to
> replying to everyone.
That's completly insane.
If you want such behavior don't use a mailing list.
> I think the reasoning behind this is that people get the
> response even if they're not subscribed.
If people don't subscribe to the mailing list, I don't see why you must send
them the email because they don't want to have it.
> So, even if I understand you find it
> annoying (I do not like it either but receive those duplicated e-mails in
> those mailing lists) it is quite hard to remember to press the appropriate
> button depending on the mailing list you're in.
No need to remember, answer only to mailing list for every mailing lists that's
the netiquette.
Albert Cervera i Areny
A Dilluns, 19 de setembre de 2011 13:52:45, C�dric Krier va escriure:
> On 19/09/11 13:36 +0200, Albert Cervera i Areny wrote:
> > A Dilluns, 19 de setembre de 2011 12:31:19, C�dric Krier va escriure:
> > > On 30/06/11 11:44 +0200, C�dric Krier wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > It seems there is a lot of new comers on this mailing list.
> > > > So I want remind you the rules about posting on mailing list
> > > > (netiquette).
> > > >
> > > > http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php
> > >
> > > I would like to add attention about the topic #12 [1].
> > > Don't use the reply-to-all button when answering to the mailing list,
> > > this is really annoying to receive duplicate emails (and also not
> > > sorted).
> >
> > In some mailing lists (pgsql-hackers comes to mind) you're expected to
> > replying to everyone.
>
> That's completly insane.
> If you want such behavior don't use a mailing list.
>
> > I think the reasoning behind this is that people get the
> > response even if they're not subscribed.
>
> If people don't subscribe to the mailing list, I don't see why you must
> send them the email because they don't want to have it.
They don't want to have all the mails on the mailing list, only those concerning their question.
Nicolas Évrard
>> I would like to add attention about the topic #12 [1].
>> Don't use the reply-to-all button when answering to the mailing list, this
>> is really annoying to receive duplicate emails (and also not sorted).
>
>In some mailing lists (pgsql-hackers comes to mind) you're expected to
>replying to everyone. I think the reasoning behind this is that people get the
>response even if they're not subscribed. So, even if I understand you find it
>annoying (I do not like it either but receive those duplicated e-mails in
>those mailing lists) it is quite hard to remember to press the appropriate
>button depending on the mailing list you're in.
Doesn't kmail have a reply to mailing list button ?
I know mutt does so it allows three behaviors:
- reply : will reply to the author (using the Reply-To: header)
- reply-all: will reply to everybody (mailing list included)
- list-reply: will reply to the mailing list using the
Mail-Followup-To: header
--
Nicolas Évrard
B2CK SPRL
rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
E-mail/Jabber: nicolas...@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/
Cédric Krier
> A Dilluns, 19 de setembre de 2011 13:52:45, Cédric Krier va escriure:
> > On 19/09/11 13:36 +0200, Albert Cervera i Areny wrote:
> > > > On 30/06/11 11:44 +0200, Cédric Krier wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems there is a lot of new comers on this mailing list.
> > > > > So I want remind you the rules about posting on mailing list
> > > > > (netiquette).
> > > > >
> > > > > http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php
> > > >
> > > > I would like to add attention about the topic #12 [1].
> > > > Don't use the reply-to-all button when answering to the mailing list,
> > > > this is really annoying to receive duplicate emails (and also not
> > > > sorted).
> > >
> > > In some mailing lists (pgsql-hackers comes to mind) you're expected to
> > > replying to everyone.
> >
> > That's completly insane.
> > If you want such behavior don't use a mailing list.
> >
> > > I think the reasoning behind this is that people get the
> > > response even if they're not subscribed.
> >
> > If people don't subscribe to the mailing list, I don't see why you must
> > send them the email because they don't want to have it.
>
> They don't want to have all the mails on the mailing list, only those
> concerning their question.
You are persevering. But I don't know how you do it because it seems that
KMail has a decent management of mailing-list.
By the way, KMail normally respect the "Mail-Followup-To" header that I set.
http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html
Albert Cervera i Areny
A Dilluns, 19 de setembre de 2011 14:29:33, Nicolas �vrard va escriure:
> * Albert Cervera i Areny [2011-09-19 13:36 +0200]:
> >> I would like to add attention about the topic #12 [1].
> >> Don't use the reply-to-all button when answering to the mailing list,
> >> this is really annoying to receive duplicate emails (and also not
> >> sorted).
> >
> >In some mailing lists (pgsql-hackers comes to mind) you're expected to
> >replying to everyone. I think the reasoning behind this is that people get
> >the response even if they're not subscribed. So, even if I understand you
> >find it annoying (I do not like it either but receive those duplicated
> >e-mails in those mailing lists) it is quite hard to remember to press the
> >appropriate button depending on the mailing list you're in.
>
> Doesn't kmail have a reply to mailing list button ?
> I know mutt does so it allows three behaviors:
>
> - reply : will reply to the author (using the Reply-To: header)
> - reply-all: will reply to everybody (mailing list included)
> - list-reply: will reply to the mailing list using the
> Mail-Followup-To: header
Don't know of it, but will try.
Albert Cervera i Areny
A Dilluns, 19 de setembre de 2011 16:16:41, Albert Cervera i Areny va escriure:
> A Dilluns, 19 de setembre de 2011 14:29:33, Nicolas �vrard va escriure:
> > * Albert Cervera i Areny [2011-09-19 13:36 +0200]:
> > >> I would like to add attention about the topic #12 [1].
> > >> Don't use the reply-to-all button when answering to the mailing list,
> > >> this is really annoying to receive duplicate emails (and also not
> > >> sorted).
> > >
> > >In some mailing lists (pgsql-hackers comes to mind) you're expected to
> > >replying to everyone. I think the reasoning behind this is that people
> > >get the response even if they're not subscribed. So, even if I
> > >understand you find it annoying (I do not like it either but receive
> > >those duplicated e-mails in those mailing lists) it is quite hard to
> > >remember to press the appropriate button depending on the mailing list
> > >you're in.
> >
> > Doesn't kmail have a reply to mailing list button ?
> >
> > I know mutt does so it allows three behaviors:
> > - reply : will reply to the author (using the Reply-To: header)
> > - reply-all: will reply to everybody (mailing list included)
> > - list-reply: will reply to the mailing list using the
> >
> > Mail-Followup-To: header
>
> Don't know of it, but will try.
It uses the mailing list only (list-reply) but as I said in some mailing lists is not what they want. I will try to get used to it, but in the end, its a matter of habits and even in the discussion I used the answer everybody option.
BTW, I think another reason for using reply-all in those mailing lists is that there's quite a lot of traffic and some hackers cannot follow all threads. With reply-all, people know they didn't miss that one.
Cédric Krier
> BTW, I think another reason for using reply-all in those mailing lists is that
> there's quite a lot of traffic and some hackers cannot follow all threads. With
> reply-all, people know they didn't miss that one.
If I don't want to receive emails, it is my choice. You should not impose to me
to read your emails.
And if I want to receive a copy of your anwser, I will add my email in the
Mail-Followup-To, it should not be you to decide.
--
Cédric Krier
B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Albert Cervera i Areny
A Dilluns, 19 de setembre de 2011 16:44:24, C�dric Krier va escriure:
> On 19/09/11 16:24 +0200, Albert Cervera i Areny wrote:
> > BTW, I think another reason for using reply-all in those mailing lists is
> > that� there's quite a lot of traffic and some hackers cannot follow all
> > threads. With reply-all, people know they didn't miss that one.
>
> If I don't want to receive emails, it is my choice. You should not impose
> to me to read your emails.
> And if I want to receive a copy of your anwser, I will add my email in the
> Mail-Followup-To, it should not be you to decide.
I'm just trying to explain what is the situation in other mailing lists and why people may be used to it.
Cédric Krier
> A Dilluns, 19 de setembre de 2011 16:44:24, Cédric Krier va escriure:
> > On 19/09/11 16:24 +0200, Albert Cervera i Areny wrote:
> > > BTW, I think another reason for using reply-all in those mailing lists is
> > > that there's quite a lot of traffic and some hackers cannot follow all
> > > threads. With reply-all, people know they didn't miss that one.
> >
> > If I don't want to receive emails, it is my choice. You should not impose
> > to me to read your emails.
> > And if I want to receive a copy of your anwser, I will add my email in the
> > Mail-Followup-To, it should not be you to decide.
>
> I'm just trying to explain what is the situation in other mailing lists and
> why people may be used to it.
Apparently KMail still doesn't support the "Mail-Followup-To" :-)
Perhaps there are some others that's wrongly use the mailing list.
But I just ask to follow the netiquette (as it is on many others mailing lists).
one
Just have an idea on this. Why not create a forum instead of a google
group? In a google group, it is like a group mailing list where those
in tryton group shall receive the e-mail (depends on their group e-
mail settings). As for me, my setting is a daily digest which will
not e-mail me anything if no activities and shall e-mail me once only
at the end of the day.
In order to avoid this, (many e-mails to respond.. which is very
hectic), I suggest to use a forum where for a discussion group, forum
is the best. Just a suggestion :)
Thank you.
regards,
-One-
Avraham Serour
Mathias Behrle
-0800 (PST)):
Netiquette (and *not* Top-post) should also be the preferred behavior on a
forum. If you miss a forum, this would be another subject, but it is not the
subject of this thread.
--
Mathias Behrle
MBSolutions
Gilgenmatten 10 A
D-79114 Freiburg
Tel: +49(761)471023
Fax: +49(761)4770816
http://m9s.biz
UStIdNr: DE 142009020
PGP/GnuPG key availabable from any keyserver, ID: 0x8405BBF6
Mathias Behrle
-0800 (PST)):
Usually I don't take part in formal discussions. I am replying here, because I
don't want the project lose interested people by filtering posts based on
formal aspects.
> On Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:44:26 AM UTC-7, Cédric Krier wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > It seems there is a lot of new comers on this mailing list.
> > So I want remind you the rules about posting on mailing list (netiquette).
> >
> > http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php
> >
> > Especially the top-posting rule which is the more annoying one.
> >
> > If someone continue to top-post, I will take my moderator right and put his
> > email address under moderation and only correct email will be accepted.
> >
> >
> filtering top-posters to /dev/null and therefore categorically dismissing
Wrong quotation level of the first line.
<snip>
...much text containing assumptions with respect to the objectives of a 'top
poster'...
</snip>
> --
> --
Double signature separator.
Is it perhaps a little bit too harsh to point this way to other posters? Please
take a look at your own post...
Please don't get me wrong: I am a usenet user since very long time and I know
about netiquette very well. And since I am usenet user I love RFCs. In this
case it is [1]. AFAIK top/bottom posting is/was never part of netiquette as
stated by RFCs.
Before doing filtering based on other post properties than inappropriate
content I would like to emphasize on the following:
- It is good bahavior to state the guidelines of a mailing list on the home
page of the mailing list. This is neither the case for tryton [2] nor for
tryton-dev [3].
- There was never a community process introducing discussion and voting about
the intended guidelines. AFAIS there exist different opinions. They should be
discussed before taking decisions.
Nevertheless I am grateful for each friendly hint to a readable style, which in
discussion groups for me is correct citation and appropriate adding of own text
below the citation.
Just my 2¢,
Mathias
[1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855
[2] https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/tryton
[3] https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/tryton-dev
Sasa Ostrouska
so big deal
from top/under-posting.
Do not think that this is so not relevant ? The person before was
claiming that top
posters are just lazy jerks, but have he asked himself if he is not
enough lazy to not
scroll a mouse to where the content is ?
And really what is important is that the content has meaning.
Of course if you can keep things up organized its way better, but in
real world also
things are not always organized, so you will have to leave with it.
And lastly, also under-posting is someway very unpleasant because the
e-mail readers
usually show you the content from top to bottom, at least 90% of them.
And this means
that if you underpost a very long meassage then somebody needs to
search where the
actual answer is.
Rgds
Saxa
Sergi Almacellas Abellana
And lastly, also under-posting is someway very unpleasant because the e-mail readers usually show you the content from top to bottom, at least 90% of them. And this means that if you underpost a very long meassage then somebody needs to search where the actual answer is.
Sasa Ostrouska
<se...@koolpi.com> wrote:
> Al 15/11/12 13:33, En/na Sasa Ostrouska ha escrit:
>
> And lastly, also under-posting is someway very unpleasant because the
> e-mail readers
> usually show you the content from top to bottom, at least 90% of them.
> And this means
> that if you underpost a very long meassage then somebody needs to
> search where the
> actual answer is.
>
>
> For that reason you have to answer only the text you are talking about, so
> everyone how reads the message has de context of the response.
>
that its not so practical.
Rgds
Saxa