T&T: Caterpillar 3208 TA engines - life expectancy

[Dave Morin]

Dear List,

I'm considering several used trawlers and they seem to have a wide range of
hours on the engines. Most that I'm considering have twin fresh water
cooled Caterpillar 3208 TA 375HP engines.

I've asked several people what they think the expected life of these
engines might be in hours, and I don't seem to find any solid answers. I
know there are hundreds of factors that can affect the life expectancy.
Assuming that the engines have had proper care and maintenance, would
anyone care to make a ballpark guess? 5000, 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 hrs?

I've also been told by some that these are "Throw away" engines. Is this
true? I think that means that they can't be rebuilt at the end of their
life span and I'm looking at replacement as the only option. Any words of
wisdom on either of these questions would be greatly appreciated.

Dave Morin
Uxbridge, MA

Da...@ArrowheadAcres.com
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[Matthew Hahn]

Dave,

I'll generalize and say, it all depends on how the engine was maintained,
and, if it was loaded (propped) correctly. Hours in salt water are HUGE
compared to freshwater if an engine isn't flushed while sitting. If a
diesel can't make rated RPM's due to being overpropped... Its bad... How
long would that Chevy last driving in 5th gear going uphill all day long?

Many of the high HP/liter diesel's are throw-aways. These are not gasoline
engines with low compression, these are high compression engines which are
designed to run in a tight spec. Boring/sleeving/ringing can be an option,
but, many times a new long block or reman are the best long term options.

Maintenance is key on diesel's. They'll run... Ahem.. Forever... If
maintained correctly and they DO need maintenance, especially on the cooling
side and even more especially in a marine environment. If someone says a
gasser is good for 1500 hours and a diesel is good for 5000 they are WRONG.
I've seen diesels blow at less than 1000 hours due to "marine age" and
neglect and gassers go far beyond their projected age due to good
maintenance. If you're looking at going diesel and have not experienced
them before, spend some time doing some research FIRST, then, hire a good
MARINE diesel mechanic to do a survey before you buy.

Now that I've scared the crap out of you.... Diesel IMHO is the best choice
in a vessel. They're easy to work on, dependable, and economical... Well...
As economical as they can be with fuel at $4+ a gallon!

Not to bounce you to a different list for more information, but, this and
many other questions concerning diesel engines are answered best on
boatdiesel.com. Do a lot of reading before you buy and you'll be a happy
cruiser!

Hope this helps!

-Matt
Matthew Hahn
USCG 50 Ton Master
St. Louis, MO

Dear List,

Dave Morin
Uxbridge, MA

Da...@ArrowheadAcres.com
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[Rudy and Jill]

Dave, below is a web address that discusses rebuilding a cat 3208:

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/65725/rebuilding_the_cat_3208_diesel.aspx

You can also find this article by googling- Caterpillar 3208. Apparently, according to the article, the engine, at one time, was considered a throwaway, not because it couldn't be rebuilt, but because Caterpillar did not provide many OEM parts for this engine. That was when it first came out, in the 60s. Not true once its use became widely accepted. Again, based on this artice, the engine's production was discontinued in the 90s, but I have the impression that parts are readily available.

I'd suspect that a call to your local Caterpillar dealer could be more informative, plus a call to a local independent mechanic might shed some light on after market rebuild kits, if the Caterpiller folks begged off this question.

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl

[Paige]

Hi Dave,

This is an extract from an article on the web.

"The Cat 3208 remains a good choice for medium size boats where high
speed is not the issue. These engines definitely do better in lighter
boats at lower speeds. They're a lot less good for pushing one of those
40k Taiwan trawler types at 21 knots."

You can read the full article here
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/comparing_diesel_types.htm

P,

[Mark Richter]

Dave,
The problem with guessing life-expectancy is that most pleasurecraft diesels
don't wear out, they are murdered. Oil loss events, over-heating events,
cylinder filled-with-water and corrosion due to lack of zincs or
wiring/stray current issues are the usual ways our diesels meet their
untimely ends. No one can guess when you will murder your diesel.

Now I'll go way out on a limb and guess at when these engines will wear out
(if you should be so furtunate as to actually accumulate enough hours to
wear one out). I'll guess 4000 hours for the 375 hp turbo 3208, versus 8000
for the NA version of around 210hp. But don't expect to see many out there
with that many hours. Other members out there have more experience with
these engines, so I'd like to hear what others believe about the wear-out
life of CAT 3208's.

As for their rebuildability, you'd want to get a price on that. Any engine
can be rebuilt, but many rebuilds will cost nearly as much as a new engine,
and that new engine would be far superior in fuel economy, low emissions and
lower maintenance. And a new engine will add substantially to the resale
value of the boat compared with a "rebuild", which can be anything from a
cylinder repair to better-than-new blueprint and balance. Every situation
is different, but my usual recommendation when it comes time for a rebuild
is to buy a new engine instead. I think the "throwaway engine" moniker came
from the fact that these CATs are not wet-liner engines like John Deere and
some others, so they would have to be removed from the boat to rebuild.
This fact adds considerably to the cost of rebuilding compared with an
in-situ rebuild.

Mark Richter, Ortona, FL on the Okeechobee Waterway
Mark's Mobile Marine
General boat repairs at my dock or yours.
Electrical system design, installation and repair.

> I'm considering several used trawlers and they seem to have a wide range
> of
> hours on the engines. Most that I'm considering have twin fresh water
> cooled Caterpillar 3208 TA 375HP engines.

[Phil Bolin]

Dave,

Here is my experience with your question: I have 3208's 375 hp in my 43'
vista (18 ton). I've owned boat 14 years and had one problem with one
engine and that was my fault for not replacing a hard to get to hose when I
replaced all hoses. A bad hose fails and in this case water no longer
flowed ... so I cracked an exhaust manifold. Replaced it easily and off
again.

Engines have 4000 hours now, 900 when I bought her. Love those engines. I
called Cat tech support when I bought engines (1-(877) 228-9900) and asked
them what I should do and what to expect. Man I talked to said, "clean
fuel, clean oil, and upkeep on zincs most critical." He also said that if
you run her slow most of the time, then, near end of running period bring it
up to 85-90% load for 5 minutes to clean out cylinders so carbon does not
form when it cools down. Do that and you'll get 10,000 hours, no problem,
he said. I've had mechanic check valve adjustment every 3-4 years also.

I have complied with what tech support told me and engines still running
great at 4,000 hours and starts and runs just like 3,000 hours ago.

Phil Bolin
Apolonia
43' Vista

Snip

-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers...@lists.trawlering.com
[mailto:trawlers...@lists.trawlering.com] On Behalf Of Dave Morin
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 10:07 PM
To: traw...@lists.trawlering.com
Subject: T&T: Caterpillar 3208 TA engines - life expectancy

Dear List,

I'm considering several used trawlers and they seem to have a wide range of
hours on the engines. Most that I'm considering have twin fresh water
cooled Caterpillar 3208 TA 375HP engines.

I've asked several people what they think the expected life of these
engines might be in hours, and I don't seem to find any solid answers.

[clyde fernortner]

another rule of thumb, is to figure out total miles on any engine...in the 60`s i was told an hr is/was equal to 30 miles..today, i would say it`s closer to 40 miles. so inversly, my old 92 dodge/cummins, @ 130,000 miles, and i drive slower that the youngsters, @ 30 miles to an hr, would be 4333 hrs on the engine/running gear. the engine in our bote is a 1975 volvo 70b, and it just passed 9000 hrs, @ 30 per hr [slower running] it has abt 270,000 miles. whatever i`m going to buy, i usually go to the people that repair whatever it is, ask abt problems, and what they would buy! i have commercial fishing friend with one of the early throw away 1150 cats [no sleeves/liners] in his seine skiff since abt 72...in every set, it runs full bore! 8/10 sets a day...changes oil once a season! i`ve seen him start it in the spring to check it out, has`nt run since october, and the minute it fires, it`s full throttle for abt 2 or 3 mins, then shuts it down, and says...it`s fine! i almost can`t watch!...c

clyde fernortner
garb...@wavecable.com

[Dave Morin]

Thank you all for your feedback on my question Re: T&T: Caterpillar 3208 TA
engines - life expectancy.
I think the bottom line for me will be to *not* exclude the boat of my
dreams because of engine hours - However before I spend a fortune I will be
back to the list for recommendations for a top notch diesel mechanic and
surveyor in the area where I find the boat.
Unfortuneatley I need to sell my current boat first.
Thanks again for all your advice.

Dave Morin Uxbridge, MA