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Ian,
Most of the focus for GLASS/GsDevKit over the last several years
has been on porting headless applications to GemStone from Pharo
so there has not been a lot of work done on enabling the kind of
applications you are talking about ...
As Petr points out your best bet is to write your application as
a RESTful GemStone server and use JSON or STON to pass objects
back and forth between Pharo and GemStone.
tODE is not really a classic "client application using GemStone as a backing store". tODE is what I call a "very thin client" where the Pharo client is only used for presentation (much like a web browser) and all of the real work is done on the server.
At ESUG in 2016, I presented a rough framework called Tugrik[1],[2],[3] that was aimed at supporting tODE-like applications based on Voyage, but I think that there is a lot of work to be done to move Tugrik into reality ... I would be willing to work with you if you wanted to push on Tugrik.
But I really think that your best bet at the moment would be to go with a RESTful architecture as all of the technology is well developed.
Let me know if you have additional questions,
Dale
[1] https://github.com/dalehenrich/Tugrik
[2]
http://esug.org/data/ESUG2016/03-Wednesday/1400-1445%20Tugrik/2016-08-24-Voyage-Tugrik.key.pdf
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwlUdRaqTwE
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Ian,
The GemStone base system does not really support loading packages
...
In 3.4 there is a version of CypressReferenceImplementation[1]
and Metacello[2] that have been ported to the base, but those
packages are not officially supported for 3.4 (you would have to
install using $GEMSTONE/upgrade/bootstrapCypressSupport.topaz and
$GEMSTONE/upgrade/bootstrapMetacelloSupport.topaz) ...
If you really wanted to use "packages" and especially if you plan
on using Seaside (Seaside requires a GLASS/GsDevKit and
GsDevKit_home builds stones with the latest versions of
GLASS/GsDevKit installed), then I really recommend that you use
GsDevKit_home[3]. You haven't mentioned (I don't think) how you
are running and installing GemStone. tODE isn't required, but it
provides some very useful features ...
topaz does not directly support loading packages, unless you
count running Smalltalk expressions (i.e., standard Metacello load
expressions) as supporting package loading, but with
GLASS/GsDevKit installed, you can use Monticello and Filetree
repositories. In future releases we are planning to support
"loading packages from topaz" since we will be officially
supporting tonel, filetree and Metacello in the base image along
with a full array of package manage tools (in the past we talked
about Cypress2 and now we are calling the project Rowan).
With tODE you can run GsDevKit_home scripts like the following in bash to install project XXX:
"$GS_HOME/bin/todeIt" $stoneName project load XXX
A little more information about how your using/installing/running
GemStone right now would help me answer your questions and
posting questions on the GLASS list[1] will reach a broader
audience of GemStone users into the mix as well:)
Dale
[1] https://github.com/dalehenrich/CypressReferenceImplementation
[2] https://github.com/Metacello/metacello
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Ian,
The GemStone base system does not really support loading packages ...
In 3.4 there is a version of CypressReferenceImplementation[1] and Metacello[2] that have been ported to the base, but those packages are not officially supported for 3.4 (you would have to install using $GEMSTONE/upgrade/bootstrapCypressSupport.topaz and $GEMSTONE/upgrade/bootstrapMetacelloSupport.topaz) ...
If you really wanted to use "packages" and especially if you plan on using Seaside (Seaside requires a GLASS/GsDevKit and GsDevKit_home builds stones with the latest versions of GLASS/GsDevKit installed), then I really recommend that you use GsDevKit_home[3]. You haven't mentioned (I don't think) how you are running and installing GemStone. tODE isn't required, but it provides some very useful features ...
topaz does not directly support loading packages, unless you count running Smalltalk expressions (i.e., standard Metacello load expressions) as supporting package loading, but with GLASS/GsDevKit installed, you can use Monticello and Filetree repositories. In future releases we are planning to support "loading packages from topaz" since we will be officially supporting tonel, filetree and Metacello in the base image along with a full array of package manage tools (in the past we talked about Cypress2 and now we are calling the project Rowan).
With tODE you can run GsDevKit_home scripts like the following in bash to install project XXX:
"$GS_HOME/bin/todeIt" $stoneName project load XXX
A little more information about how your using/installing/running GemStone right now would help me answer your questions and posting questions on the GLASS list[1] will reach a broader audience of GemStone users into the mix as well:)
Dale
[1] https://github.com/dalehenrich/CypressReferenceImplementation
[2] https://github.com/Metacello/metacello
[3] https://github.com/GsDevKit/GsDevKit_home
[4] http://forum.world.st/GLASS-f1460844.html
On 1/11/18 11:21 AM, Ian Ian wrote:
Thanks Richard,I am 'beginning' to get it.
One thing: does gemstone have its own package management interface such that from Topaz I can install 'some package'?
Thanks!
--
On 11 January 2018 at 13:20, Richard Sargent <richard.sargent@gemtalksystems.com> wrote:
Ian Ian wrote
> I am used to thinking in a relational sense and was looking at GemStone as
> a 'database' which, it seems, in the traditional sense, it is not.
In some respects, it is better to think of the GemStone repository as a
Smalltalk /image/. Then you think of the Gems as concurrently executing VMs
running the same image, but with transaction management to make it safe.
An SQL database has stored procedures; GemStone has "stored procedures on
steroids". With complete access to all the code in a Smalltalk image, you
can literally do any computable thing you can imagine.
It is a vastly different paradigm from plucking bits of data from a data
store and playing with them in a tier that is essentially completely
isolated from the data. Object Oriented is code + data while SQL is code
versus data.
It's a lot of fun, so jump in, the water's fine!
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