Automatic backup

[Ulrik Stervbo]

Hello list,

My entire TiddlyWIki has just been wiped out when Firefox crashed during saving a tiddly.

I am not amused and I would like to see an automatic backup - either when the TiddlyWiki is opened or when saved even when this will slow down either of the operations.

I had searched for tiddlies and had just edited the word I had searched for, when I saved and Firefox crashed.

The TiddlyWiki is used to document my work, so I need something as stable at pen and paper.

Cheers,
Ulrik

[PMario]

Hi Ulrik,

>My entire TiddlyWIki has just been wiped out when Firefox crashed during saving a tiddly.

That's sad.

 - Which FF version do you use?
 - Do you use TiddlyFox addOn?
 - OS?
 - Do you have other FireFox plugins.

How big was your TW.html file, prior to the crash?

-m

[PMario]

 - TiddlyWiki 5 or TiddlyWiki classic?

-m

[Ulrik Stervbo]

Sorry for the incomplete report.

Windows 7; FrontMotion Firefox 22.0 with the TiddlyFox 1.0alpha18 and Zotero related plugins (see screen shot).

I'm using TiddlyWiki 5 and the html file was (and is again; hurrah for system backup :)) 2155 kb

I have noticed things are at times running slow, and have in fact just experienced another crash, not provoked by saving, but a tiddly was open for editing.

Cheers

Ulrik

2014-05-08 16:54 GMT+02:00 PMario <pmar...@gmail.com>:

 - TiddlyWiki 5 or TiddlyWiki classic?

-m

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[Ulrik Stervbo]

Obviously not my day...

Firefox plugins:
Passwordmaker 1.7.8
Zotero 4.0.17.1
Zotero Word for WIndows Integration 3.1.13
ZotFile 3.1

Cheers,
Ulrik

[PMario]

On Thursday, May 8, 2014 5:00:53 PM UTC+2, Ulrik Stervbo wrote:

Windows 7; FrontMotion Firefox 22.0 with the TiddlyFox 1.0alpha18 and Zotero related plugins (see screen shot).

I'm using TiddlyWiki 5 and the html file was (and is again; hurrah for system backup :)) 2155 kb

:)
 

I have noticed things are at times running slow, and have in fact just experienced another crash, not provoked by saving, but a tiddly was open for editing.

FireFox _was_ known to leak memory, when it was running for a long time, or many tab open (many > 10). ....

 - So you can start FF and have a look at the task manager "ctrl - f1" and have a look at the memory FF uses. 
 - If you see a slow down you could have an other look at the task manager. ... if FF now uses 3-10 times more with the same number of open tabs, there may be a problem.


 - you could try to open a new tab in FF with "about:memory" in the URL and have a look, which site uses a lot of memory.
   - "Show memory reports" -> [Measure]
   - Explicit Allocations ... shows the tabs and sites.

So you could find out what actually needs much memory.

Just a guess / hint
-mario

[PMario]

On Thursday, May 8, 2014 6:19:56 PM UTC+2, PMario wrote:

 - So you can start FF and have a look at the task manager "ctrl - f1" and have a look at the memory FF uses. 

Sorry should be "ctrl - shift - esc"

-m

[Ulrik Stervbo]

Thanks - I'll keep an eye on it.

My solution to avoid future stress with data loss is to schedule copying (if the tw.html has changed) every minute with 'SynkronPortable'.

Cheers,
Ulrik

[Ulrik Stervbo]

The problem is indeed memory related stemming from my joy of displaying pdfs in a tiddly using the iframe tag (the object tag does not work well with Internet Explorer it seems).

Thanks for the comments
Ulrik

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Ulrik

Just to let you know that I'm adding basic automated backup support for TW5 to TiddlyFox, hopefully in the next release of both later this week.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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[Paul]

Hi: The same thing that happened to the OP just happened to me yesterday. Firefox crashed during a tiddly save and the tiddlywiki.html file was of size 0k afterwards.

TiddlyWiki: 5.0.13-beta
TiddlyFox: 1.0alpha18
OS: Windows 7 32-bit
Firefox: 30.0
Other Plugins:
  - Flashblock 1.5.17
  - Firebug 2.0.1
  - HttpFox 0.8.14 (disabled)
  - Modify Headers 0.7.1.1 (disabled)
  - Session Manager 0.8.1.3 (disabled)

Lost about a months worth of notes. I checked out the TW5 settings and see that backup folder field which is currently set to ".", but no backup files are in the folder where the TW5 file is located.

Anyway, just thought I'd register my 'me too'. Quite disappointed in the lost work, but still plan on using it.

Cheers,
Paul

[Matabele]

Hi

If you use linux, this article describes a method to automatically backup your wikis to the cloud: http://seb.so/50gb-of-cloud-space-with-box-automatically-syncd-on-linux-with-webdav/

I have been using this system for a few days, seems to do the trick. Should adapt for Mac but will need quite a bit of adaptation for windows.

regards

[Ulrik Stervbo]

Since I cannot install any software on my work computer (Windows) I use a portable synctool which runs in the background and makes a copy of my tw.html every 5 minutes. When I've done major additions I additionally make a manual copy of the file.

When a copy is generated when the tw.html is loaded, I'll sleep a bit better.

Cheers,
Ulrik

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[Gennady Uraltsev]

Hello, I started using TiddlyWiki5 several days ago. The whole question of backing up is the one that worries me most. You mention this "auto backup" ability in TiddlyFox/ TW5. I have googled around but I found no mention of such a thing and there is no reference to it at the wiki at tiddlywiki.com .

Am I missing something? The only option there is seems about using TW5 through

TiddlySpot.

Cheers,

Gennady

[Arlen Beiler]

Jeremy, what about an automatic backup saverHandler which would load any plugins that supports backup in the info. I can't remember the exact code, but I remember seeing [ 'save', 'autosave' ] when making savers for TW5 based on the TiddlyFox saver.

A couple of them, such as download, could add a backup option out of the box; or add a way to manually select a saver to use for backup.

Just a couple ideas for Chrome and the rest.

[stevesuny]

Gennady et al, I'm also quite interested in backup - I've only recently noticed that TW5 doesn't seem version / backup the same way as TWClassic. I can see how this could be done using clone feature (autoclone last 5 versions, for example?): but, it's not a pure versioning system...

Two things come to mind:

1 - What is the current best strategy for auto-backup TW5 files (I'm currently serving my wikis through dropbox. Perhaps I could put my dropbox TW folder inside my google drive folder?)

2 - If indeed TW5 radically changed its approach to versioning, what is the history and thinking behind this change? What were the trade-offs involved that led to this change?


//steve.

[Eric Shulman]

On Tuesday, August 4, 2015 at 7:53:03 AM UTC-7, stevesuny wrote:

Gennady et al, I'm also quite interested in backup - I've only recently noticed that TW5 doesn't seem version / backup the same way as TWClassic. I can see how this could be done using clone feature (autoclone last 5 versions, for example?): but, it's not a pure versioning system...

2 - If indeed TW5 radically changed its approach to versioning, what is the history and thinking behind this change? What were the trade-offs involved that led to this change? 

TWC's file backup mechanism uses direct file I/O functions to either rename or copy the existing saved file before overwriting it with updated content. These direct file I/O functions are no longer available in modern browsers, as it creates a huge security hole.  Browser addons (such as TiddlyFox and TiddlyChrome) *might* still be able to use these functions, but AFAIK, neither addon currently does.

-e

[RichardWilliamSmith]

1 - What is the current best strategy for auto-backup TW5 files (I'm currently serving my wikis through dropbox. Perhaps I could put my dropbox TW folder inside my google drive folder?)

Dropbox backs everything up for you. If you visit the files online, you can see earlier revisions. I'm not sure how long they are kept etc.

 

2 - If indeed TW5 radically changed its approach to versioning, what is the history and thinking behind this change? What were the trade-offs involved that led to this change? 

As Jeremy mentioned above, autosave is about to be added. It's been quite a while since I used twClassic but I seem to remember it just saved lots of copies of the file with time-stamps appended to their titles. Is that what you mean by versioning?

Regards,

Richard

[Jeremy Ruston]

My plan is to implement backups for TiddlyWiki5 within an updated TiddlyFox.

> A couple of them, such as download, could add a backup option out of the box; or add a way to manually select a saver to use for backup.

The download saver already supports backups, if you make Chrome download a new file each time you save. It's not super convenient, but it's fairly robust.

> 1 - What is the current best strategy for auto-backup TW5 files (I'm currently serving my wikis through dropbox. Perhaps I could put my dropbox TW folder inside my google drive folder?)

Dropbox keeps a version history for files, so you'll already have a backup :) I believe it's limited to 30 days unless your a paid customer.

> 2 - If indeed TW5 radically changed its approach to versioning, what is the history and thinking behind this change? What were the trade-offs involved that led to this change? 

The approach to versioning hasn't changed: neither TWC nor TW5 natively supports tiddler versioning. We added it via TiddlyWeb/TiddlySpace to TWC, but the only current approach for TW5 is to use the Node.js edition and keep the tiddler files in GitHub.

But I think you mean backup; it has only changed inasmuch as I wanted to move support for backups into TiddlyFox, so that the backup policies could be configured across all local wikis in one place. But, as I say, backups are not yet implemented in TiddlyFox.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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[quest...@gmail.com]

Hello Jeremy - did this happen?

Backup is fundamental - and I lost a few weeks work with the dreaded zero bytes html file from FF crash. A real waste.

Really - TWC has a thing where it just saved and datestamped the file on each open - can we have the same? Really does not matter if there are hundreds of files in  folder - better than none!

Otherwise - great tool, and fantastic work - many thanks.

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Questorian

Backup is fundamental - and I lost a few weeks work with the dreaded zero bytes html file from FF crash. A real waste.

That is indeed heartbreaking, and I appreciate that the built-in features of TiddlyWiki don't on their own provide sufficient data security for most users. I did do some work on a TiddlyFox update that includes backups at the end of last year, but I'm afraid it remains unreleased. However, some imminent technical changes to Firefox are going necessitate releasing a new version in the next few weeks, so this will finally be attended to.

Best wishes

Jeremy

[quest...@gmail.com]

> However, some imminent technical changes to Firefox are going necessitate releasing a new version in the next few weeks, so this will finally be attended to.

Did this happen? I have been patiently waiting ....
;)

[Jeremy Ruston]

> On 18 Jan 2017, at 08:24, quest...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > However, some imminent technical changes to Firefox are going necessitate releasing a new version in the next few weeks, so this will finally be attended to.
>
> Did this happen? I have been patiently waiting ....

A couple of weeks ago I posted a link to a beta release on the TiddlyWikiDev mailing list. It's a bit awkward to try it out but feedback is very welcome,

Best wishes

Jeremy

[quest...@gmail.com]

indeed Sir! Where can I lay my hands upon it?

I know not of such speak of "Dev" mailing lists...

[PMario]

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 5:07:56 PM UTC+1, quest...@gmail.com wrote:

indeed Sir! Where can I lay my hands upon it?

The TiddlyFox announcement is here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywikidev/VqvGlnrfLjE

have a look at: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/52.0a2/auroranotes/ about FF-dev

The FF developer edition installs a second FireFox, that is independent from your existing version. It has its own profile and configuration settings. So you don't break things with your existing version.

FF-dev lets you install unsigned extensions from the harddisk. See: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Add-ons/Extension_Signing  and search for "unsigned" So you'll see how to do this. ... but be aware, to just install extensions, from sources you trust!!!!


have fun!
mario

[Arlen Beiler]

Jeremy, 

Would there be a way to add an option to also download the file on every TiddlyFox save? I know it has to be in the downloads folder, but some users might consider that better than nothing.

And can we do this in TiddlyWiki? I think so. Add the downloader as a high priority autosave, then return false even though it works.

-Arlen

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[Chuck R.]

Rebooting my pc once a week solves most of my ff and os problems. Some programs just don't play nice.

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Arlen

Would there be a way to add an option to also download the file on every TiddlyFox save? I know it has to be in the downloads folder, but some users might consider that better than nothing.

I've started to implement full backup support in TiddlyFox, along the lines of the old TWC technique, but run from the TiddlyFox side.

And can we do this in TiddlyWiki? I think so. Add the downloader as a high priority autosave, then return false even though it works.

That's an intriguing idea, and definitely worth experimenting with. Perhaps it could be done by adding a UI to the saver mechanism, so that the user can see a list of active savers, and enable/configure each one.

Best wishes

Jeremy

-Arlen

On Jan 18, 2017 2:12 PM, "PMario" <pmar...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 5:07:56 PM UTC+1, quest...@gmail.com wrote:

indeed Sir! Where can I lay my hands upon it?

The TiddlyFox announcement is here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywikidev/VqvGlnrfLjE

have a look at: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/52.0a2/auroranotes/ about FF-dev

The FF developer edition installs a second FireFox, that is independent from your existing version. It has its own profile and configuration settings. So you don't break things with your existing version.

FF-dev lets you install unsigned extensions from the harddisk. See: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Add-ons/Extension_Signing  and search for "unsigned" So you'll see how to do this. ... but be aware, to just install extensions, from sources you trust!!!!


have fun!
mario

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