About 165 Guppies to the LFS
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tr...@io.com
Mar 14, 2011, 9:09:32 PM3/14/11
to The Freshwater Aquarium
I had mentioned in someone else's guppy thread that it really was time
to take some guppies to the LFS. This weekend, I scooped out all
the male guppies. They make it easy by congregating at the surface
when there is any activity near the tank.
Then I sorted through them using hang-on-tank specimen cups -- the big
rectangular kind -- and a very small net.
And when I was done, I had 80 male guppies ready to go to the LFS. I
kept another forty or so of the very best looking, or still a bit too
immature to go. This is out of a 30 gallon tank.
Then I caught and sorted a similar number of females guppies from the
swordtail tank, but since they weren't going in the same bags, I did
not make a big effort to limit it to a one - to - one ratio. I know
I put in more females than the carefully counted males.
Then for good measure I grabbed fourteen medium to large male
swordtails (I seem to have very few females for some reason) and toted
them off to the LFS as well.
So about 180 fish total.
They gave me $80 in credit. On the one hand, it's not much for
nearly 200 good fish (or 100 if you don't count the female
guppies). On the other hand, I'm glad to have somewhere that will
take my excess. And I now have over $500 in fish credit at that
store. So really, for what do I need more? I have another $100+ at
a different store.
And the two 30 gallon tanks breathed a sigh of relief...
Except, I have a 20 gallon chock full of adolescent guppies which are
about ready to be sorted into the two 30 gallons. But there's no
other guppies coming down the pike behind them.
Now I need to figure out a reasonable frequency at which to breed my
favorites to maintain the color varieties I like without crowding my
tanks. Of course, that frequency may be zero.
Jeff Walther
to take some guppies to the LFS. This weekend, I scooped out all
the male guppies. They make it easy by congregating at the surface
when there is any activity near the tank.
Then I sorted through them using hang-on-tank specimen cups -- the big
rectangular kind -- and a very small net.
And when I was done, I had 80 male guppies ready to go to the LFS. I
kept another forty or so of the very best looking, or still a bit too
immature to go. This is out of a 30 gallon tank.
Then I caught and sorted a similar number of females guppies from the
swordtail tank, but since they weren't going in the same bags, I did
not make a big effort to limit it to a one - to - one ratio. I know
I put in more females than the carefully counted males.
Then for good measure I grabbed fourteen medium to large male
swordtails (I seem to have very few females for some reason) and toted
them off to the LFS as well.
So about 180 fish total.
They gave me $80 in credit. On the one hand, it's not much for
nearly 200 good fish (or 100 if you don't count the female
guppies). On the other hand, I'm glad to have somewhere that will
take my excess. And I now have over $500 in fish credit at that
store. So really, for what do I need more? I have another $100+ at
a different store.
And the two 30 gallon tanks breathed a sigh of relief...
Except, I have a 20 gallon chock full of adolescent guppies which are
about ready to be sorted into the two 30 gallons. But there's no
other guppies coming down the pike behind them.
Now I need to figure out a reasonable frequency at which to breed my
favorites to maintain the color varieties I like without crowding my
tanks. Of course, that frequency may be zero.
Jeff Walther
NetMax
Mar 14, 2011, 11:07:00 PM3/14/11
to The Freshwater Aquarium
Fish credit or store credit? Fish credit is useful for exotic fish,
ordering special plants, shrimps, snails or anything else in the live
goods category, but not for much else. Store credits are good for
your consumables (filters, food etc) and ultimately for bigger tanks
and peripherals. Some stores will negotiate deals, like 2 fish
credits are worth a store credit, others are not so savvy and do a
1:1.
$80 for 200 fish means their average sale price will be $2.40. Does
that sound about right? I think you made out ok.
NetMax
ordering special plants, shrimps, snails or anything else in the live
goods category, but not for much else. Store credits are good for
your consumables (filters, food etc) and ultimately for bigger tanks
and peripherals. Some stores will negotiate deals, like 2 fish
credits are worth a store credit, others are not so savvy and do a
1:1.
$80 for 200 fish means their average sale price will be $2.40. Does
that sound about right? I think you made out ok.
NetMax
Altum
Mar 15, 2011, 2:39:59 AM3/15/11
to The Freshwater Aquarium
On Mar 14, 6:09 pm, "t...@io.com" <t...@io.com> wrote:
> I had mentioned in someone else's guppy thread that it really was time
> to take some guppies to the LFS. This weekend, I scooped out all
> the male guppies. They make it easy by congregating at the surface
> when there is any activity near the tank.
>
> Then I sorted through them using hang-on-tank specimen cups -- the big
> rectangular kind -- and a very small net.
>
> And when I was done, I had 80 male guppies ready to go to the LFS. I
> kept another forty or so of the very best looking, or still a bit too
> immature to go. This is out of a 30 gallon tank.
scooped out batches of 20-30 fish to sell regularly. Mine usually
went to the fish club as people really liked bags of locally raised
guppies rather than LFS guppies. I got anywhere from $0.50-$1/fish
depending on people's moods in the auctions.
--Altum
tr...@io.com
Mar 15, 2011, 12:10:52 PM3/15/11
to The Freshwater Aquarium
On Mar 14, 10:07 pm, NetMax <computeral...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Fish credit or store credit? Fish credit is useful for exotic fish,
> ordering special plants, shrimps, snails or anything else in the live
> goods category, but not for much else. Store credits are good for
> your consumables (filters, food etc) and ultimately for bigger tanks
> and peripherals. Some stores will negotiate deals, like 2 fish
> credits are worth a store credit, others are not so savvy and do a
> 1:1.
that store goods are 1:2 with fish credit. So on the rare occasions
when I need some equipment, I'll trade the fish credit for hard
goods. When I thought I was in danger of setting up the 90 gallon, I
used a bunch of fish credit to get a largish Aquaclear filter and I
think I used some to get a tiny little Aquaclear for the 10 gallon
honeymoon tank. I had only a sponge filter in there and it just
wasn't keeping the bare tank clean enough.
> $80 for 200 fish means their average sale price will be $2.40. Does
> that sound about right?
seeing $8 on there before, but maybe that was for a pair. I'm not
sure what the females sell for; I've only ever seen them as part of a
pair. And I'm not sure about the swordtails either. I think
they're typically about $5 also.
I think the credit they give has declined over the years, because I
remember getting a largish fraction of the sales price for Cory.
Aeneus as credit at first. And then later it was more like 1/3 or 1/4
for the Corys.
They've said before that they're not giving any credit for guppies any
more, but that they'll still take them. But when I bring them in they
continue to give me credit. They know me reasonably well and seem
impressed with what they get from me, and I think that has something
to do with it. I also think there are three owners and that they're
not all in agreement on what the exact policy should be.
> I think you made out ok.
wholesale price, then that should be in cash. In the past (meaning
decades back) fish credit was always an amount closer to the retail
value of the fish, but good only for fish. When I worked at a pet
store, we offered close to the retail value in credit or about 1/4 or
1/3 of that in cash, as that was our wholesale cost. Now they seem to
be combining the two, giving the wholesale cost and then only giving
it as fish credit. On the other hand, perhaps their risk is higher
when dealing with customer suppliers? There's no formal warranty as
there might be with a wholesaler. On the gripping hand, the LFS store
owner tells me the risk is lower getting local guppies as compared to
what they've been getting through their supply channels in recent
years.
From a practical point of view, it doesn't really matter, as I have no
where to put new fish, and I'm glad to have a place where I can take
my excess and have some hope that they'll find a good home. If I get
a little credit along with all of that, that's just a nice bonus. I
clearly have more fish credit than I'm going to use in any reasonable
amount of time.
Jeff Walther
NitroCarbon
Mar 15, 2011, 12:32:16 PM3/15/11
to the-freshwa...@googlegroups.com
Where I shop, credit is
credit. Period. All credit has cash value in the store and
applies to anything. What a convoluted system these other stores
have!
~nc
~nc
Conee
Mar 15, 2011, 1:06:26 PM3/15/11
to the-freshwa...@googlegroups.com
I think that what you have done with your "many" guppies is fantastic!
I am very pleased for you, and as others have said credit is credit, right?
In fact I have decided now that I have helped turn enough of my neighbours into fish friends,
So I will try to see if my LFS would be interested in my prolific guppies,
As I mentioned to you earlier I have been very fortunate in that I have attained some very beautiful specimens lately,
So thank you as I have learned greatly from your experience Jeff Walther !
Conee.
NetMax
Mar 15, 2011, 2:24:41 PM3/15/11
to The Freshwater Aquarium
Local fish are actually not as good as you might think.
1. They're usually older and have never been culled (missing eyes,
battle damage, etc)
2. They're not high-demand fish (no one brings me unwanted Discus ;~)
3. If they are unusual, then there will be 100s of them and will glut
the market in 2 weeks (some obscure cichlid spawn).
4. They usually arrive with little or no notice.
A fishroom manager has a strategy for monthly sales promotions and
stock rotation. When fish are ordered, there's a master plan and the
required tanks are prepped for each species arrival. Someone walking
in with a couple of Home Depot 5g buckets filled with unwanted
livebearers, or overgrown Pacus & Plecos or a cichlid spawn will not
neccesarily be greeting with enthusiastic glee and visions of
profit. ;~)
Having said that, I never minded it too much, but I had about 120 wet
tanks, a dozen dry tanks which could be coaxed into service and my
staff kept the fishroom under pretty good control so we could
accomodate surprises. The best surprises were people who were moving
away, and were convinced that we were the best place to 'adopt' their
fish (nice specimens), and then our suppliers would also receive and
pass along freebies to us which were unusual (really nice specimens!)
The 'fish credit' philosophy was to give the customer something,
rather than tell them why we might not want their fish (see above).
= best case ====================
In the live goods scenario:
The store spent $10 on fish and sells them for $50 (in fish credit)
which they gave out for $250 retail of fish (5:1 ratio again), so the
potential uptake is $300 for $10 invested (30:1 ratio).
In the dry goods scenario:
The store spent $25 on food and sells it for $50 (in fish credit)
which they gave out for $250 retail of fish (5:1 ratio again), so the
potential uptake is $300 for $25 invested (12:1 ratio).
As a store owner, would you rather make $30 or $12 on a $1 dollar
investment?
= worse case =================== (the fish brought in die, and the
store spends $20 cleaning up the mess).
In the live goods scenario:
The store spent $10 on fish and sells them for $50 (in fish credit)
which they gave out for a bunch of fish which died and cost them $20
to clean up, so the potential uptake is zero for $30 invested.
In the dry goods scenario:
The store spent $25 on fish and sells it for $50 (in fish credit)
which they gave out for a bunch of fish which died and cost them $20
to clean up, so the potential uptake is zero for $45 invested.
So for no profit, do you risk losing $30 or $45?
You can see that if a pet shop gives store credit for fish credit (at
1:1), they're either making less money, or they're losing more money.
What also isn't reflected here is that these stores have a huge
overhead cost, so modest profits are really break-even, and modest
losses are usually much bigger losses.
That's enough math for today ... my head hurts.
NetMax
On Mar 15, 12:32 pm, NitroCarbon <next...@networkspeedy.com> wrote:
> Where I shop, credit is credit. Period. All credit has cash value in
> the store and applies to anything. What a convoluted system these other
> stores have!
>
> ~nc
>
> > Jeff Walther- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
1. They're usually older and have never been culled (missing eyes,
battle damage, etc)
2. They're not high-demand fish (no one brings me unwanted Discus ;~)
3. If they are unusual, then there will be 100s of them and will glut
the market in 2 weeks (some obscure cichlid spawn).
4. They usually arrive with little or no notice.
A fishroom manager has a strategy for monthly sales promotions and
stock rotation. When fish are ordered, there's a master plan and the
required tanks are prepped for each species arrival. Someone walking
in with a couple of Home Depot 5g buckets filled with unwanted
livebearers, or overgrown Pacus & Plecos or a cichlid spawn will not
neccesarily be greeting with enthusiastic glee and visions of
profit. ;~)
Having said that, I never minded it too much, but I had about 120 wet
tanks, a dozen dry tanks which could be coaxed into service and my
staff kept the fishroom under pretty good control so we could
accomodate surprises. The best surprises were people who were moving
away, and were convinced that we were the best place to 'adopt' their
fish (nice specimens), and then our suppliers would also receive and
pass along freebies to us which were unusual (really nice specimens!)
The 'fish credit' philosophy was to give the customer something,
rather than tell them why we might not want their fish (see above).
= best case ====================
In the live goods scenario:
The store spent $10 on fish and sells them for $50 (in fish credit)
which they gave out for $250 retail of fish (5:1 ratio again), so the
potential uptake is $300 for $10 invested (30:1 ratio).
In the dry goods scenario:
The store spent $25 on food and sells it for $50 (in fish credit)
which they gave out for $250 retail of fish (5:1 ratio again), so the
potential uptake is $300 for $25 invested (12:1 ratio).
As a store owner, would you rather make $30 or $12 on a $1 dollar
investment?
= worse case =================== (the fish brought in die, and the
store spends $20 cleaning up the mess).
In the live goods scenario:
The store spent $10 on fish and sells them for $50 (in fish credit)
which they gave out for a bunch of fish which died and cost them $20
to clean up, so the potential uptake is zero for $30 invested.
In the dry goods scenario:
The store spent $25 on fish and sells it for $50 (in fish credit)
which they gave out for a bunch of fish which died and cost them $20
to clean up, so the potential uptake is zero for $45 invested.
So for no profit, do you risk losing $30 or $45?
You can see that if a pet shop gives store credit for fish credit (at
1:1), they're either making less money, or they're losing more money.
What also isn't reflected here is that these stores have a huge
overhead cost, so modest profits are really break-even, and modest
losses are usually much bigger losses.
That's enough math for today ... my head hurts.
NetMax
On Mar 15, 12:32 pm, NitroCarbon <next...@networkspeedy.com> wrote:
> Where I shop, credit is credit. Period. All credit has cash value in
> the store and applies to anything. What a convoluted system these other
> stores have!
>
> ~nc
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
tr...@io.com
Mar 15, 2011, 6:39:05 PM3/15/11
to The Freshwater Aquarium
On Mar 15, 1:24 pm, NetMax <computeral...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Local fish are actually not as good as you might think.
> 1. They're usually older and have never been culled (missing eyes,
> battle damage, etc)
at home were also the older ones I "know" and a few who were tattered
in the tail.
I also usually take them a bag with some guppies in and tell them flat
out, "These are culls. They're for your feeder tank." And in there
will be any which display deformities. I don't want those to
propagate in my tanks.
During the early years I'd usually have a few bent backed females.
Then I did not have any for a year or two and I thought I had
eliminated the trait from my stock. On the other hand, I'm not sure
if it's entirely genetic. There could be environmental/injury/pre-
natal causes. But during this recent sorting I found five or six
that did not have a good straight spine.
> 4. They usually arrive with little or no notice.
like a week's notice. I'm on a two week water changing schedule and
I usually decide during a water change that before the next one I'll
thin the schools. So I could give them a week's notice without too
much difficulty. The only issue would then be actually following
through and delivering if my schedule heats up. Plus, it's difficult
for me to really know how many I'm going to bring.
> Someone walking
> in with a couple of Home Depot 5g buckets filled with unwanted
> livebearers,
and one loop of the rubber band across the top of the folded over
twist so it's easy to grip the rubber band and unwind it. Then they
just rip the bags open to release the fish. Sigh. All my artistry
for nothing. There's an art to grabbing the top of the bag so that
it's filled with air. I've seen these kids in stores using a gas
nozzle to fill the bag. The younger generation. Hmmpphh. Of course,
that jet may be dispensing oxygen...
Anyway, it's a small thing, but it's somewhat easier to acclimate a
bunch of fish that arrive in a bag than it is a bunch that come in a
bucket.
Jeff Walther
NetMax
Mar 15, 2011, 7:27:11 PM3/15/11
to The Freshwater Aquarium
LOL, fish bagging (and netting) is an art form.
I'm not surprised that you took so much better care of your fish, and
dividing up the culls. Stores have to deal with customers of all
stripes. They are not all so considerate, but you were also making a
sale. Most drop offs are drop & dash, or they don't want anything but
will hang around for an hour to make sure the fish are well treated.
They often come back a few days later to check up on them. It breaks
my heart when these fish so often die. They would have been babied
for many years and their isolation from other fish and diseases causes
their immune systems to simply shut down. Put them in a commercial
tank, and the mildest case of Ich threatens to kill them. : (
ps: A doctor friend of mine linked lack of direct sunlight (vitamin
D?) with bent spines in Guppies.
NetMax
I'm not surprised that you took so much better care of your fish, and
dividing up the culls. Stores have to deal with customers of all
stripes. They are not all so considerate, but you were also making a
sale. Most drop offs are drop & dash, or they don't want anything but
will hang around for an hour to make sure the fish are well treated.
They often come back a few days later to check up on them. It breaks
my heart when these fish so often die. They would have been babied
for many years and their isolation from other fish and diseases causes
their immune systems to simply shut down. Put them in a commercial
tank, and the mildest case of Ich threatens to kill them. : (
ps: A doctor friend of mine linked lack of direct sunlight (vitamin
D?) with bent spines in Guppies.
NetMax
tr...@io.com
Apr 25, 2011, 11:22:51 AM4/25/11
to The Freshwater Aquarium
Took another 200 guppies to a different LFS this weekend...
The last batch discussed earlier in this thread did not fare so well
at the LFS to which I took them. I checked back about a week later
(I think I was dropping off some plants) and most of the males had
died. The females, in a different tank, were as happy as can be.
Mark, the fellow who I usually deal with there, said he thought they
might have something going on in their tanks, and that he thought my
fish were good, as the ones in a different tank were fine.
I don't know. This sudden guppy death thing is perplexing.
Anyway, so I found 93 males ready to go this time and bagged up a
similar number of females, plus a few more, and took them to Amazonia
this time, instead of Aquatek. Amazonia is further away, but it
seems likely that taking them to AquaTek is a death sentence.
Of course, it may be that taking them anywhere is a death sentence.
I have the card for the lady at Amazonia who took them, and I'm going
to stay in touch (email) with her and see how they do. I mentioned
my experience at AquaTek to her and asked if she had any
explanation. She said that she had read in a pet trade journal about
some internal parasite they're just calling guppy disease so far.
She said the article said that it is very fast acting, and some fish
can carry it without being affected.
So it could be that AquaTek has nasties in their tanks. Or it could
be that my guppies are happy at home, but that a sudden change in
environment wreaks havoc on the males. The results at Amazonia will
give me a little more data.
The lady at Amazonia also said very nice things about my guppies.
Which surprised me as I don't breed lines and I don't keep records. I
just select out what look like the best candidates and mate them in
their own tank (after giving the female time to work through any old
sperm). However, after interrogating her a bit, it sounds like the
bar is very low. She said that the fact that I do water changes puts
me ahead of many of the people they deal with.
Anyway, we'll see how that goes.
I still have the males and females separated, so I'm just working
through broods that I collected before I realized just how crowded
things really are. I think I put back a number of immature males
equal to the number that I took out. I also moved about 25 budding
males from the baby tank, but that about took care of all the babies
in the pipeline. I also moved about 50 probably-females into the
female tank with the swordtails.
Another few months and I should have my guppy problem down to
something reasonable, and their tanks should be sufficiently less
crowded that missing a day or two on a water change won't be a crisis
any more.
At least, that's the plan...
I think the ballast died on the male tank light. It was only about
three years old. Sigh. Ballastwise brand and it looks like they
don't sell them any more, but I have a spare on hand. I just didn't
need the extra repair project. It's the busy time for the vegetable
garden right now, and I seem to be fighting vegetable munching deer.
Jeff Walther
The last batch discussed earlier in this thread did not fare so well
at the LFS to which I took them. I checked back about a week later
(I think I was dropping off some plants) and most of the males had
died. The females, in a different tank, were as happy as can be.
Mark, the fellow who I usually deal with there, said he thought they
might have something going on in their tanks, and that he thought my
fish were good, as the ones in a different tank were fine.
I don't know. This sudden guppy death thing is perplexing.
Anyway, so I found 93 males ready to go this time and bagged up a
similar number of females, plus a few more, and took them to Amazonia
this time, instead of Aquatek. Amazonia is further away, but it
seems likely that taking them to AquaTek is a death sentence.
Of course, it may be that taking them anywhere is a death sentence.
I have the card for the lady at Amazonia who took them, and I'm going
to stay in touch (email) with her and see how they do. I mentioned
my experience at AquaTek to her and asked if she had any
explanation. She said that she had read in a pet trade journal about
some internal parasite they're just calling guppy disease so far.
She said the article said that it is very fast acting, and some fish
can carry it without being affected.
So it could be that AquaTek has nasties in their tanks. Or it could
be that my guppies are happy at home, but that a sudden change in
environment wreaks havoc on the males. The results at Amazonia will
give me a little more data.
The lady at Amazonia also said very nice things about my guppies.
Which surprised me as I don't breed lines and I don't keep records. I
just select out what look like the best candidates and mate them in
their own tank (after giving the female time to work through any old
sperm). However, after interrogating her a bit, it sounds like the
bar is very low. She said that the fact that I do water changes puts
me ahead of many of the people they deal with.
Anyway, we'll see how that goes.
I still have the males and females separated, so I'm just working
through broods that I collected before I realized just how crowded
things really are. I think I put back a number of immature males
equal to the number that I took out. I also moved about 25 budding
males from the baby tank, but that about took care of all the babies
in the pipeline. I also moved about 50 probably-females into the
female tank with the swordtails.
Another few months and I should have my guppy problem down to
something reasonable, and their tanks should be sufficiently less
crowded that missing a day or two on a water change won't be a crisis
any more.
At least, that's the plan...
I think the ballast died on the male tank light. It was only about
three years old. Sigh. Ballastwise brand and it looks like they
don't sell them any more, but I have a spare on hand. I just didn't
need the extra repair project. It's the busy time for the vegetable
garden right now, and I seem to be fighting vegetable munching deer.
Jeff Walther
Altum
Apr 25, 2011, 12:44:24 PM4/25/11
to The Freshwater Aquarium
One LFS around here found that if they put hobbyist guppies on the
normal system they would sicken and die so they had a separate 30g
tank where they offered gups from local breeders. Nobody seems to
know what kills locally bred guppies but it's a pretty common problem
with perfectly good fish. Agreed that males are more fragile.
--Altum
normal system they would sicken and die so they had a separate 30g
tank where they offered gups from local breeders. Nobody seems to
know what kills locally bred guppies but it's a pretty common problem
with perfectly good fish. Agreed that males are more fragile.
--Altum
videoman
May 3, 2011, 1:42:49 AM5/3/11
to The Freshwater Aquarium
Bottom posted.
You can use a generic all electronic ballast with auto start as a
replacement - I did and it was cheap! See my post = "
I need instructions on how to make a full light hood... " about this.
Later all!
replacement - I did and it was cheap! See my post = "
I need instructions on how to make a full light hood... " about this.
Later all!
tr...@io.com
May 4, 2011, 11:35:58 AM5/4/11
to The Freshwater Aquarium
> You can use a generic all electronic ballast with auto start as a
> replacement - I did and it was cheap! See my post = "
> I need instructions on how to make a full light hood... " about this.
> Later all!
The light in question is a two bulb 39W T5HO, so I'm not sure a
> replacement - I did and it was cheap! See my post = "
> I need instructions on how to make a full light hood... " about this.
> Later all!
generic ballast would have worked, but in any case, I had a spare on
hand (same ballast drives 24W T5HO and I have plans for some new 20
gallon lights) and the replacement turned out to be fairly easy.
It's a home made light and I didn't remember it, but I did a pretty
good job arranging the wires and mounting intelligently, so it was
easy to replace.
I looked it up on Ballastwise's website, and it turns out their
ballasts have a 60 month (5 year) warranty. I had a hard drive
failure/hiccough two months ago that affected the volume with my email
client files on it, but I was able to get that close enough to fixed
last night to recover my old Mail-Order email folder. So I have my
invoice in hand now and should be able to request an RMA.
Things break. Things are repaired. Things look brighter from the
repaired side than from the broken side.
Jeff Walther
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