Mobilink Infinity

[Tee Emm]

Since the product even haven't been around for a month, the following does sound like inter-departmental grapevine that made its way to the net/blog. -T

From: http://www.masudreza.com/2008/11/wimax-broadband-titanic-its-never-going.html

Wimax: The Broadband Titanic: It's Never Going to Arrive!

A month or two ago, I raised some questions regarding Orascom's Mobilink Wimax venture under the Mobilink Infinity brandname. Well, it has just come to my knowledge that Orascom Telecom (the parent company of Mobilink) has refused to release any more funds for the Mobilink Infinity expansion in the north and central regions of Pakistan.

Rumuor has it that the Broadband Unit (BBU) within Mobilink looking after Wimax might be scrapped. The part of the BBU looking after the long haul network (DWDM, Next-Generation SDH etc) will survive.

[bmug...@gmail.com]

I hope anyone from Marriott Karachi is not on the list. So who's gonna pay their bills now :)

[Fawad Niazi]

Broadnband (WiMax & 3G) are one of Next big things in Telecom. Any strong reference of this issue.

 

This reference needs to be mentioned with responsibility. WiMax is the one domain which is promising in Pakistan.

 

This may discourage more people to adopt!

[Haris Shamsi]

I think this blog was written before 22 October ???? as media break for mobilink infinity happend on that day. As far as the expansion in other cities is concerned i know 2 other Wimax operators, planning to go with Karachi only at this point in time.

 

Industry already observed the operational issues with the pioneer of WiMax and going slow and steady on wireless technologies. Strategically, Karachi being the largest market for consumer is the best place to make the model successful and then replicate it.

 

While agreeing with Masud Bhai in a way that due to over all economic conditions, the investors are hesitant in investing aggressively, i strongly disagree that a USD 200 Mil +  project could be scrapped :). Do you think its easy to right off 200 Mil from the books ?? and when the service adoption rate of WiMax is far far higher than DSL and FTTH!! i seriously doubt

 

Good Day,

Haris Shamsi

[aamir attaa]

Mobilink infinity looks confused? isnt it?

It came up with Rs.10,000 upfront cost (Rs. 6000 equipment + Security Rs. 2000 + Installation Rs. 2000)

Then slashed this upfront to Rs. 6000 and now once again they have imposed Rs. 2000 security for 5GB account and and Rs. 2500 for 15 GB account.

So they sure about this configuration now??

Aamir
http://www.propakistani.com

[bmug...@gmail.com]

Wimax adoption rate is far far higher than dsl. Okay that's a new one! Which country are we talking about here exactly?

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From: "Haris Shamsi" <haris....@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 05:10:38 +0500
To: <telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Mobilink Infinity

[Sajjad Zaidi]

I heard a similar rumor from inside sources regarding another Orascom subsidiary. Maybe somebody has that confused with Mobilink?

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 7:01 AM, Tee Emm <tariq....@gmail.com> wrote:

[Tee Emm]

http://www.dailywireless.org/2008/11/03/pakistan-gets-2nd-wimax-network/

My 2c effort to promote what is +ve about us in Pakistan.

-T

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Fawad Niazi <niazi...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Tariq Mustafa         MSN:t...@hotmail.com  | Follow me here: http://friendfeed.com/abunet
Active Cell #        http://tinyurl.com/2ob35t  | Stuff I am sharing: http://tinyurl.com/2kagdu
                      Industry Blog: http://pakng.wordpress.com

[Faez Itrat]

I believe thats what we need at every level specially when the overall situation is giving a gloomy vibe.

 

As always, good work TM :)

Faez

[Haris Shamsi]

@bmughale

Adoption rate in Pakistan....

I remember the early days of DSL in paksitan and we used to sell/configure 4-5 a week, according to my stats new DSL connections rate in couple of big providers is not more than 3-4 a day. However with WiMax Wateen = Mobilink are exceeding 50 + a day (the bookings)

As far as the security deposites are concerned , they are usually taken against Voice not data ... Keeping the international calling facility in view i think its very less (and refudnable)

Good Day,
Haris Shamsi

[bmug...@gmail.com]

Consider me a fresher but 50 connections a day is a ridiculous estimate.

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From: "Haris Shamsi" <haris....@gmail.com>

Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:19:39 +0500

To: <telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Mobilink Infinity

[Shahzad Alam]

Better precedence is available.......100 connection a day in case of Wateen.......when they launched the services......please don't amazed......

[bmug...@gmail.com]

When they launched vs current uptake is hell of a difference in any product cycle. I'm flattered if the number is still the same sir!

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---

From: "Shahzad Alam" <shah...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 21:13:40 +0500

[Asif Gul Khan]

Well i guess 50 connections a day is reasonable, considering the bandwidth hungry people of khi.

 

Although we should not forget that data services would not be as welcomed as there was for voice esp. gsm services, people here still need atleast 1 to 2 decades to be purely "E-Based" here in Pakistan, but the more facilities there will be the more people will look into it.

 

Thanks to "Some" Technical Masterminds!!

[Uzair Ahmed]

Dear Bilal,

Do you live in Pakistan?? You are flattered and fresher, the way you
talk it looks like that you are an investor who is not belong to
Telecom Industry and who always ask for more numbers/returns. So we
appreciate if you don't get flattered. This is WiMAX which I believe
still in most of the countries never heard it. So be realistic and
sensible while throwing your thoughts in this forum or suggest us that
what should the best Sales Figure if you represent any WiMAX company
in Pakistan.

Take care

On 11/5/08, Asif Gul Khan <noc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well i guess 50 connections a day is reasonable, considering the bandwidth
> hungry people of khi.
>
> Although we should not forget that data services would not be as welcomed as
> there was for voice esp. gsm services, people here still need atleast 1 to 2
> decades to be purely "E-Based" here in Pakistan, but the more facilities
> there will be the more people will look into it.
>
> Thanks to "Some" Technical Masterminds!!
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 9:27 PM, <bmug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> When they launched vs current uptake is hell of a difference in any
>> product
>> cycle. I'm flattered if the number is still the same sir!
>>
>> *** This Message Has Been Sent Using BlackBerry Internet Service from
>> Mobilink ***
>>

>> ------------------------------
>> *From*: "Shahzad Alam" <shah...@gmail.com>
>> *Date*: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 21:13:40 +0500
>>
>> *To*: <telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject*: Re: Mobilink Infinity

>>
>> Better precedence is available.......100 connection a day in case of
>> Wateen.......when they launched the services......please don't
>> amazed......
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 8:53 PM, <bmug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Consider me a fresher but 50 connections a day is a ridiculous estimate.
>>>
>>> *** This Message Has Been Sent Using BlackBerry Internet Service from
>>> Mobilink ***
>>>

>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From*: "Haris Shamsi" <haris....@gmail.com>
>>> *Date*: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:19:39 +0500
>>> *To*: <telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com>
>>> *Subject*: Re: Mobilink Infinity

>>>>> Tariq Mustafa MSN:t...@hotmail.com <MSN%3A...@hotmail.com> |

>>>>> Follow me here: http://friendfeed.com/abunet
>>>>> Active Cell # http://tinyurl.com/2ob35t | Stuff I am sharing:
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/2kagdu
>>>>> Industry Blog: http://pakng.wordpress.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>
> >
>

--
Sent from my mobile device

[bmug...@gmail.com]

This is wimax which most of the people still haven't heard of it and still they're buying it? Woah that one went straight off of me ;) 20 is a good number per day activations sir.

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-----Original Message-----
From: "Uzair Ahmed" <uza...@gmail.com>

Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 07:28:00

To: <telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Mobilink Infinity

[Mustafa Rana]

Signups numbers are good to see but It'd be interesting to see the
churn ratios at the same time.

I personally know a lot of dissatisfied Wateen customers but at the
same time a few very satisfied as well; most of these ppl I know
immediatly signed-up with Mobilink also during the test launch and
going forward.. Feedback for Wateen from my peers is 90:10
(dissatisfied:satisfied) - the actual picture maybe be completly
different.

Regardless, I'd still give kudos to Wateen for playing their role in
the over-all ICT development at Pakistan. :-)

My 2 cents!!!

On 11/4/08, Shahzad Alam <shah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Better precedence is available.......100 connection a day in case of
> Wateen.......when they launched the services......please don't amazed......
>
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 8:53 PM, <bmug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Consider me a fresher but 50 connections a day is a ridiculous estimate.
>>
>> *** This Message Has Been Sent Using BlackBerry Internet Service from
>> Mobilink ***
>>

>> ------------------------------
>> *From*: "Haris Shamsi" <haris....@gmail.com>

>> *Date*: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:19:39 +0500
>> *To*: <telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject*: Re: Mobilink Infinity

>>>> Tariq Mustafa MSN:t...@hotmail.com <MSN%3A...@hotmail.com> |

>>>> Follow me here: http://friendfeed.com/abunet
>>>> Active Cell # http://tinyurl.com/2ob35t | Stuff I am sharing:
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/2kagdu
>>>> Industry Blog: http://pakng.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>
> >
>

--

[Faez Itrat]

Considering Pakistan specially Karachi where the market is pretty much dominated by so called 'cable-mafia' (irrespective of service) anything between 50-100 at start is a good number as we have to keep this in mind that the target market is residential(by nature we are more price contious as compared to quality). The opeators are trying their best to subsidize cpe/customer equipment  to make it reachable for the mid-range user by taking the major hit on their end. Also we have to keep in mind the awareness of technology(broadband) in general and wimax in perticular.

 

Many of us on this list are associated to data/ISP market and have seen the evolution from 14.4k narrowband to multi-megabit broadband  to this date and i believe we all agree that at start every technology goes through the same phase.

 

 Once we start seeing more satisfied users the technology adoption/penetration would grow many folds considering the ease of technology and dependency on one opeator only.

 

-Faez

[Haris Shamsi]

and on top of it ... we need to understand the entry barrier "which is upfront cost" estimated 6-8 K.

 

Now the stats which i have shared should only be loooked into with the reference of current DSl activations. IF you look at karachi market , cable, Fiber, Ethernet, evdo, dsl and dialup are existent and with all this if a new technology with 8 K upfront (and only 2 players) i think the numbers look good in terms of adoption.

 

we need tounderstand the penetration ratio difference b/w a legecy voice/gsm market Vs data industry. a good heads up would be the adoption rate of GPRS Vs total voice consumers ( which is far far far lower than the voice market)

 

When you talk about internet/data - lot of other factors/barriers apply including cost/exposure/education etc .....

 

I still think that 50-100 daily is a good number for 2 wimax operators :) tracking it since 1997 when used to go to install netscape on floppy disks and USRs external modems on PCs

 

Good Day,

Haris Shamsi

[Faisal Khan]

Well - we took Wateen - and it was a ghastly experience. We invested in Infinity (now have 8 links running in office and employees who can work from home), and its simply Thumbs-Up service.

No doubt, Wateen needs to be given credit for the awareness and deployment of Wimax in PK, but despite knowing the top cadre in their management, I am still not sure why they are not moving heavens and earth to satisfy their customers.

The one good thing about Mobilink Infinity, is when we ordered two units and wanted more, we were told - it was not possible, for a few weeks, until the beata-launch issues were sorted out - and they were. The few complaints we did have were too addressed. Customer service is top notch.

[Faraz Javed Awan]

 

well if you have any delayed service quality issues you can directly contact to Mr. Syed Ali Abbas sye...@mobilink.net or His senior manager irfa...@mobilink.net. Both of these guys are like known for customer services as they are my colleagues as well still.

--
Regards
Faraz Javed Awan || +97339146696

--
Regards
Faraz Javed Awan

[khalid seddiq]

what i know by sitting in customer support of a leading ISP of pakistan,

 

Wateen Wimax has lost its brand image  and people are so much

exasperated by their customer support and new connection deployment and all.....

 

a lady came to our CS centre for new connection and asked me for WIMAX connetion.

i replied her that we are not offering WIMAX to CONSUMERS right now(coz we r having wimax for corporate sector only). but then i suggested her about wateen(having no idea about their service quality and all)

she used bad words about wateen wimax and said we are replacing wateen and informed about issues  faced their.

 

 

[Rehan Jafry]

Agreed, Credit must be given to wateen for  setting up marks and bringing the revolution in pakistan ibroadband market. But you are not choosing the right word ( Ghastly experience ) for Wateen intiative towards bringing in the first ever country wide network in pakistan.

 

Infinity is there now  and  we must say  "All the best to infinity", but its too early to declare a  Thumbs-Up service. The main difference will be the  customer service which actually is the main component for retaining  your customers. Wateen is still serving the corporate market with their IP/ MPLS base VPN solutions and many of the famous brand names are still on their portfolio.

 

 

We have to be realistic in understanding the technology.

 

 

 

 

On 11/5/08, Faisal Khan <babus...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Rehan Jafry

[Faisal Khan]

Faraz,

Thank you for your help. Actually the delayed installations were during the beta launch. We have all the links up and running now smoothly.

FK

[Waqa]

Although credit goes to Wateen to bring Wimax on board but they need a
lot of improvement to regain the customer experiences. Infinity is
definitely taking advantage of Wateen Wimax in the market but have
many more contribution to make the positive revolution in the internet
industry of Pakistan. Well planned strategic move by Infinity to
launch with one model city and then move forward with all the
experiences. Wateen has every product line on board but with no
service. On the other hand, Infinity has less products on board today
but very high customer satisfaction level with excellent services.
Eventually, good healthy competition & trends would lead to happy
customer & Happy Pakistan.

Regards
W.A

On Nov 5, 2:36 pm, "Faisal Khan" <babushk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Faraz,
>
> Thank you for your help. Actually the delayed installations were during the
> beta launch. We have all the links up and running now smoothly.
>
> FK
>

> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Faraz Javed Awan <faraz.j.a...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > well if you have any delayed service quality issues you can directly

> > contact to Mr. Syed Ali Abbas syed...@mobilink.net or His senior manager
> > irfan...@mobilink.net. Both of these guys are like known for customer

> > services as they are my colleagues as well still.
>
> > --
> > Regards
> > Faraz Javed Awan || +97339146696
>

> > On 11/5/08, Faisal Khan <babushk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Well - we took Wateen - and it was a ghastly experience. We invested in
> >> Infinity (now have 8 links running in office and employees who can work from
> >> home), and its simply Thumbs-Up service.
>
> >> No doubt, Wateen needs to be given credit for the awareness and deployment
> >> of Wimax in PK, but despite knowing the top cadre in their management, I am
> >> still not sure why they are not moving heavens and earth to satisfy their
> >> customers.
>
> >> The one good thing about Mobilink Infinity, is when we ordered two units
> >> and wanted more, we were told - it was not possible, for a few weeks, until
> >> the beata-launch issues were sorted out - and they were. The few complaints
> >> we did have were too addressed. Customer service is top notch.
>

> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Haris Shamsi <haris.sha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>> and on top of it ... we need to understand the entry barrier "which is
> >>> upfront cost" estimated 6-8 K.
>
> >>> Now the stats which i have shared should only be loooked into with the
> >>> reference of current DSl activations. IF you look at karachi market , cable,
> >>> Fiber, Ethernet, evdo, dsl and dialup are existent and with all this if a
> >>> new technology with 8 K upfront (and only 2 players) i think the numbers
> >>> look good in terms of adoption.
>
> >>> we need tounderstand the penetration ratio difference b/w a legecy
> >>> voice/gsm market Vs data industry. a good heads up would be the adoption
> >>> rate of GPRS Vs total voice consumers ( which is far far far lower than the
> >>> voice market)
>
> >>> When you talk about internet/data - lot of other factors/barriers apply
> >>> including cost/exposure/education etc .....
>
> >>> I still think that 50-100 daily is a good number for 2 wimax operators :)
> >>> tracking it since 1997 when used to go to install netscape on floppy disks
> >>> and USRs external modems on PCs
>
> >>> Good Day,
> >>> Haris Shamsi
>
> > --
> > Regards

> > Faraz Javed Awan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[aquee...@gmail.com]

You may be right about the funds...
But given the current state of affairs of the country in general and
the telecom industry in particular, who will be willing to plough in
more money?
Please have a look at how Orascom's share price has been faring and
you will have a very good idea...

[bmug...@gmail.com]

Infinity is a quality product and a brand name to begin with and people who said that wateen customers propel into mobilink infinity must be true. Its not hard to believe. Now while saying that activations are high per day, is an error statement. Its still a cold cat.

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-----Original Message-----
From: aquee...@gmail.com

Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 02:24:46
To: Telecom Grid Pakistan<telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Mobilink Infinity

[Faried Nawaz]

Do you have any actual data to disprove the figures thrown about, or
do you simply "feel" they're too high?

[bmug...@gmail.com]

Do you have the data to ask me that question?

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-----Original Message-----
From: Faried Nawaz <far...@gmail.com>

Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 12:06:49

To: Telecom Grid Pakistan<telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Mobilink Infinity

Do you have any actual data to disprove the figures thrown about, or

[Faried Nawaz]

So, it's just a feeling.

[bmug...@gmail.com]

I have lots of other things to feel than to feel the numbers. Its a fact!

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-----Original Message-----
From: Faried Nawaz <far...@gmail.com>

Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 21:16:42

To: Telecom Grid Pakistan<telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Mobilink Infinity

So, it's just a feeling.

[Zaeem Arshad]

LinkDotNet seems to be doing about 100+ installations country wide per day. Add in the figures of PTCL and a few other operators and the figure swells. 50 for Wimax isn't that unreasonable then I suppose. The overall reception of Wimax is still better than what DSL started with.

My 2 cents

--
Zaeem

[Imtiaz Noor]

and how many un-installations?
the kind of service LDN provides made me disconnect their service after a few days!

I just have the connection still activated just incase we need some extra bandwidth at short notice.

--
- Inspirex

[Uzair Ahmed]

Bilal and Faried, please talk separately as this forum is not
interested to hear anything irrelevent. I request Babar Bhatti and Tee
Emm to take notice of it.

--

[Haris Shamsi]

@Zaeem

is this the current stats of LDN ? 100 per day ?? if this is true then i think in 2 months time they will run out of DSL ports !!!!! whats their market plan ?

If this is true i am really amazed, please correct me with statistics . i thought they have installed 55 K ports this year ?

[Saad Ibrahim]

if they are installing 100 then they must be uninstalling 200 per day :/ becuase they short of bandwidth already and they are increasing connection

[Shiraz]

If you put the other way, they are increasing the connection (of course decrease is not the same rate as mentioned) and increasing the contention ratio hence accommodating all new customers in the same bandwidth (or bandwidth increase should as such be very slow).

@Haris: Zaeem's is correct about 100 per day approx. 55k ports installed..around 20k customers...they can fill in remaining 35k in 12 to 16 months with a consistent (ideally should be reduced with time) termination ratio. And you know the market plan...don't you :)

And yes...perhaps the right time to ask (pardon me if it's already asked in the same thread): what is the connection ratio (if any at this time or planned for future) Mobilink is offering to its customers over WiMax?

Regards.

--
SM
+92-300-8541239

[Haris Shamsi]

So its approximately 35 K Ports available and even if LDN is doing 80 per K they would be requiring the ports within less than 2 months - simple maths - even if they have churn of 50% which i doubt, they soon need to order ports ..... 100 Per day ... Ummm very interesting i have to do my maths again, it seems ........

Good Day,
Haris Shamsi

[Haris Shamsi]

2 years i mean !!!

[Sameer Bokhari]

this total ports to installation calculation is not as simple as it may seem..

[Babar]

Daily Wireless, a prominent online journal, has published an overview
of WiMAX rollouts in Pakistan. Thanks To Tariq for sharing this
achievement with the rest of the world.
http://www.dailywireless.org/2008/11/03/pakistan-gets-2nd-wimax-network/

Babar

[Shiraz]

It surely isn't that simple...the guys maintaining the excel sheets are always in problem :)
I believe the 55k port plan which Harris initially put here was to be consumed by the end of this year but since we have already entered November (and customers according to some figures available are around 20k so far), these ports now would be used for next year. This factor is already disturbed perhaps due to difference in *planned availability and installation* and *actual availability and installation*.

@Haris: contention ratio please...?

BR.

--
SM
+92-300-8541239

[faez....@gmail.com]

Talking about total broadband activations per day combining all the service providers can we come to a conclusion of 500 activations every day? considering 50-100 by each provider.

If that's true then it will come to 15-20k per month on an average. Any thoughts on combined availability of ports/capacity at this point including dsl/wimax etc?


Faez

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---

From: Shiraz <shir...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 21:42:48 +0500
To: <telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Mobilink Infinity

[Haris Shamsi]

the stats which faez is asking about would be very interesting and could lead to a lot of conclusions and every one can benefit upon that.

@ shiraz: Contention ratios could be different in different technologies like for dialup we used to to 1:30-50 over 100,000. For always on connectivities in Wireless i think ( in general ) 1:15-25 is not a bad ratio ..... keeping the electricity situation in view you can add another 5 % on it i guess.

DSL is very tricky and capex hungry as it has to be hard patched usually , the only benefit you can get is on Inter exchange ( or at consolidation point bandwidth) and upstream. I think the usage patterens of bandwidth ( other than 2 % power users) remains the same in any always on connectivity: 1:15-25

any other thoughts list ?

Good Day,
Haris Shamsi

[Rehan Jafry]

As far as Wimax installations is the case, you need to have a very huge field staff for 50 installations per day. Electricity availibility, traffic jam, and a good / fast termination of connection does matter for  achieving  this  target.

 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Rehan Jafry

 

--
Rehan Jafry

[Haris Shamsi]

Well - if you have more sites and better indoor coverage, you dont need to put external CPEs .... an indoor ready to service CPE is available , reducing your installation time & efforts.

Good Day,
Haris Shamsi

[Mudassar]

Either it is Wateen or Infinity, the technology will take few years to
be best understood by Pakistanis..(masses). There are few other WiMax
operators coming. according to wateen guys, they have 50,000 customers
so far. compare it with 2005 when the entire broadband figure in
Pakistan was 14000 customers. what ever the view are, this is the
revolution in Pakistan and we need that. The could be same case as
GSM in Pakistan where Paktel, the pioneer, left far behind despite of
vast network. Wateen will have to upgrade things...and they are
doing...recently few of Mobilink infinity people have joined Wateen,
according to them, Infinity was not a future for them.....

[Waqa]

Yeah i heard too that some of the people have recently joined wateen.
As per my information, most of them were unable to understand the
internet/data industry dynamics and confused. Mobilink Infinity has
new experienced resource in replacement now who well understand the
internet/data market & its culture. I am not sure about exact numbers
but Infinity has outclass the wateen in Karachi.
Best of luck for the green future of recently turned people in
wateen.......Best of Luck to Mobilink Infinity with new refined HR on
board.

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Uzair Ahmed]

I agree with Mr. Waqa and I also want to share here is that as per my
information these people were not ready for the challenge but instead
wanted to live a standard life without any excitement. Success comes
to people who dare and live on the edge and not run away from
difficulties". Infinity stands for courage and "can do" attitude and
it has no place for loosers.
Technology cannot win the race as if someone is using 16e then other
will also do so, if anyone have Juniper or cisco and other also can
have it but THE real difference is made by Quality Team. If you have
excellent Human Resource then the you can win the race. The difference
between Wateen and Mobilink is quite obvious 'Human Resource' not
technology.

Regards,

Uzair

--

[bmug...@gmail.com]

These people were not ready for the challenge? Forgive my french but Mobilink took quite a while to figure that one.

Infinity is all about courage and living on the edge, dare? I doubt the brand image depicts that. Neither mobilink would want to roll out such statements which go anti to marketing's setting of public image.

Technology won't win the race and people will? Now you got many of us there thinking. :)

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-----Original Message-----

From: "Uzair Ahmed" <uza...@gmail.com>

Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 22:18:30

To: <telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Mobilink Infinity

[Haris Shamsi]

Come back to the point raised by mudasser. Yes technology will take
its due time and more operator coming in means more experience and
more knowledge to refime the product it self. Every new operator
learns and study the previous so to avoid the mistakes and shorten the
learning curve. This not only reduces the time to market but
eventually help new entrant to be cost effictive as well. Eventually
this goes in favour of end user.

In my opinion, however for wimax the learning curve will be far less
than of dsl for both operator and user as this has more stake
developed already compare to dsl.

As far as people going here and there , I am sure this can not be an
indicator for success. So wheather ppl coming from wateen to mobilink
or mobilink to wateen or from both to wi tribe and augure- does really
matter at this stage. All of them have the same challange , short time
to market, customer awareness, bringing in the volume and doing all of
this while keeping the opex down.

I think this industry is going to produce couple of very good case
studies in coming future - very interesting ......

Good Day,
Haris Shamsi

[bmug...@gmail.com]

Haris has a very valid argument. People turnover at these stages can cause operational crash and delays.

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-----Original Message-----

From: "Haris Shamsi" <haris....@gmail.com>

Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:44:37

[Fawad Niazi]

I have a feeling that people turnover in the same domain of WiMax industry is good thing unless untill there is sense of professionalism in employee and employer!!!!!!!!

 

If they hire them on merit then its the flaw of previous employer that they failed to retain an employee that had worth for industry.

 

If the employer hire the same guy for having insight/information of the competitors plans and product positioning information alongwith future plans and employee has only that thing to offer then that is wrong thing and need not be done.

 

Wish that all of us to do the job with integrity for Industry growth. Reasonable Turnover is not a bad thing.

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 9:25 AM, <bmug...@gmail.com> wrote:

Haris has a very valid argument. People turnover at these stages can cause operational tash and delays.

[Sohail Hyder]

Dear Uzair,

 

Three things differentiate any service player from others when talking about quality,

Physical Evidence, Processes and  People (perhaps in addition to other famous 4Ps of Marketing). But my question is “How you yourself belonging to one particular entity, can judge the weight age of  your specific “P” as hinted out, in your mail. Let the users be the judge, and kindly  go back and read the specific purpose of this forum, which is to promote and discuss the technology rather then ensuing some irrelevant topic.

 

Regards

 

Sohail Hyder

> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 22:18:30 +0500
> From: uza...@gmail.com

> To: telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Mobilink Infinity
>
>

[Tee Emm]

"The mark of a true hero is humility." Master Shifu of Kung Fu Panda 

:)

--
Tariq Mustafa         MSN:t...@hotmail.com  | Follow me here: http://friendfeed.com/abunet
Active Cell #        http://tinyurl.com/2ob35t  | Stuff I am sharing: http://tinyurl.com/2kagdu
                      Industry Blog: http://pakng.wordpress.com

[Waqa]

Sohail,
Although this forum speaks about technology but should not forget to
cheer up those who have contribution to run this show & share the true
public facts for the knowledge of others. Technology is useless, if we
don't have capable people to run. We should be Positive & open hearted
to accept such.....-:)
As long as high turnover of professionals is concerned, this is not in
good favor of industry & consumer as most of the companies are already
laying off to cut down the expenses and can be more risky for new
applicant as well.
Regards!!

[Haris Shamsi]

While agreeing to all of the views of different people I just want to
add that the best judge for any product/service/Value addition is the
customer now. Gone are the days when customers use to stick with an
operatoe becaise of no alternate ..... This market hjas become very
very lethal now so any operator which is unable to satisfy the needs
of customer - is out.
So whether its ppl, processes or system, if it is not tuned for
customer needs its useless to have big investments, lot of gold
plating etc. The smartest thing to do is to identify the customer need
and cut down your time to market in efficient cost.
Giants and pioneers brands like paktel, ptcl have fallen apart becaise
they were unable to coup up with the changing market dynamics.

The best appreciator is the customer and revenue coming out of him/her

My 2 cents
Good Day,
Haris Shamsi

--

[Fawad Niazi]

PTCL fallen apart??? No need to discuss in this thread!!!!!!!!!!

 

Come back to Mobilink Infinity !!!!!!!!! It is an interesting thread !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I guess comparison of Mobilink and Wateen Strategy, Product Positioning and Companies SWOT analysis in WiMax Technology based products would be good things to be discussed here.

 

Even I dont know the people switching to/from mobilink/wateen, but i feel its not good to discuss the people in specific on this forum!!!!!!!!!! Employee Turnover is the one of Strength/weakness of the operator

[Haris Shamsi]

Fawad my apologies , the reason to mention the ptcl was to elaborate
that how monopolies and pioneers also go down if they don't understand
and react to market needs :)

So wether its mobilink or wateen or cybernet or linkdot net there is
no reactiom to contiously changing need's new names will take over.

Good day,
Haris Shamsi

On 11/11/08, Fawad Niazi <niazi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> PTCL fallen apart??? No need to discuss in this thread!!!!!!!!!!
>

> *Come back to Mobilink Infinity !!!!!!!!! It is an interesting thread
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

[Rehan Jafry]

Just hold on for  3 months.  AP sector  bandwidth capacity, Bandwidth availibility  at peak hours will be the decisive factors.

 

 

 

Regards,

--
Rehan Jafry

[Shahid Mirza]

I filled the subscription form at mobilinkinfinity website. And a representaive of Mobolink Infinity called me and offered buy one and get one free in Rs.6000/-

 

But they never noticed before calling that I am in Islamabad and they dont have the service in Islamabad at the moment. :)

 

 

Regards,

[Waqa]

@ Shahid..
clearly writeen on website/tariff before subscription. The service is
currently available in Karachi only.
Although they must be more concious now:) @such queries & Point need
to be well noticed by Infinity GURUS of Mobilink.

Regards & Happy Pakistan!!!!

[allama]

I signed up for Mobilink's unlimited downlaod package back in
September and up until yesterday, I would have recommended them.
Yesterday, I found out that Mobilink is changing the packages and I
will have to choose a "new" package with a bandwidth cap. If I cancel,
I will have to pay 50% of the upfront cost. This is just wrong. I have
detailed my experience with Mobilink Infinity at http://www.pforpositive.com/?p=36.
I will be happy to answer any questions while I have the service.

[Haris Shamsi]

I think the initial offer was valid till 3 month only and conveyed to
customers upon singing up.

Did you pay any thing for the first 3 months services ? Other than CPE cost ?

Good Day,
Haris Shamsi

[Rehan Allah Wala]

ok

i was also thinking of getting, due to the unlimited, but now i wont

Rehan Ahmed AllahWala
Msn/Yahoo/GoogleTalk/Email: Re...@Rehan.com
http://www.supertec.com/ - Internet Telephony Solutions
Http://www.DIDX.net - DID Number Market Place.
Don't Remember Me ? Visit http://www.Rehan.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
By Gandhi.

"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." - Gandhi

[Haris Shamsi]

Offcourse its not a free service :)

Btw - any idea how much a normal or power user uses I'm a month ? Not
on service side but as an individual customer.

Good Day,
Haris Shamsi

[Waqa]

@ Haris
Not more than 10GB on 1Mbps shared connection (96% customers behavior)
Source:(data info authentic from one of the leading ISP in town)

Regards & Happy Pakistan

[Tariq Mufti]

More like 20 to 40 GB if you watch international TV channels, and listen to
the radio, on the internet.

Best,

Tariq Mufti

[Awais Naseer]

(This is my post on http://groups.google.com/group/telecom-grid-pakistan )

 

Slam!

I was using Micronet's Home package with 4GB a month @ 384kbps but it usually used to run out before 20th of the month when I was using it alone and usually used to avoid Geo.tv or youtube. But now I have switched to unlimited package @ 512kbps with 5 users at home. I used to watch youtube, online TVs, BBC radio and normal surfing. I think I consume about 30 to 40GB a month.

I think, this will help you to decide, which package to buy!

 

As I have told in a past post that I am very much satisfied with their service and customer care. But unfortunately, Micronet is limited to Islamabad and Rawalpindi. I wish them expand themselves throughout the country and abroad.

 

Regards,

Awais Naseer
owa...@gmail.com

Skype: awais.naseer

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/awaisnaseer

[Waqa]

It is often experienced that some of the SP's bandwidth meters
calculate wrong bandwidth utilization. Added up, wateen charge Rs.35
against extra 100MB but if session is broken up in between any where,
bandwidth calculator shows utilization of whole 100MB chunk.
I am not sure if this is technical fault or commercial trick:).
Comments.....?

Regards & Happy Pakistan..

[Sameer Bokhari]

What i would like to know is that do SP's enforcing a Volume Cap discount for broadcast (or similar invalid) traffic?

[Haris Shamsi]

Okay it seems we almost have the same thoughts on Traffic utilization parameters.

 

I basically segment users in 2 categories , Normal , Normal + and Power

 

For Normal Users ( accessing WWW, Emails and Routine Youtube/CNN voice/video streaming ) its not more than 10 GB

For Normal = users ( more into Streaming stuff , big attachements with emails etc 15-20 GB

For Power Users - there is a segment within power users ( software downloaders - DVD?songs emule.kaza, torrent users ) for which specific data is not available for the rest of the power users 28-35 GB is the utilization at max).

 

You would be amazed to know that the first kind of power users are not more than 2-4% of the total user base. In my personal opinion 90% of the market is of normal users.

 

So in reality Unlimited ( in terms of practical usage ) is nothing more than a MARKETING gimmick :) ( and i know i am sharing these stats on a list where 99% ppl are power users .. hahhaha)

 

Good Day,

Haris Shamsi

[Tee Emm]

I _used_ to think similarly - normal, normal + and power.

But talk to the average teen ager sitting in shop-offices across Karachi and you'd know that these guys know about p2p as much as they know about the rest of the 'surface Internet'. They even know that there is a good chance for getting bad viruses and rootkits from these services but the charm of the universe of sharing makes the temptation win over fear.

Looking at the younger users, the tube prevalence and knowing that 'they learn fast', I've only two categories in my mind now - normal+ and power. And, to me, it actually takes a you to be a power user to act like a 'normal' user. 

-T

[Haris Shamsi]

Tariq Bhai  my statistics are based on the actual traffic flows from few ISP cores in pakistan.

 

However i comcpletely agree with you that near future we will see the trend changing. But at this point it stays as it is :)

[Faisal Khan]

I'd also like to interject here - very few ISPs actually know how to profile their customer's usage patterns. In Pakistan, to date, not a single ISP can profile their customer down to Layer 7, Time, Pull-vs-Push, Business-vs-Home User Match Up, Top Talkers & Top-Visited mapped to Apps, and many more variants.

As much as we 'hate' being billed for badnwidth caps, unfortunately, that will be coming forth.

On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Tee Emm <tariq....@gmail.com> wrote:

[Haris Shamsi]

Exactly !!!!! this is much much required to lowered down the cost for end user ( more i guess) ...

 

However i was talking in reference of total GB utilization irrespective of layers(in and out packets from customer interfaces)

[Faisal Khan]

Haris:

Whilst I agree with the aggregate approach IN+OUT/IN model, I also feel that has gone stale. With P2P, Videos, Torrents running all night, etc. the basic model needs changing. For example, for the 1st time in Pakistan, PBOD (Peered Bandwidth On-Demand) is being considered. So rather than opting for a 2MB link from say PTCL, you can get localized connectivity for say 10MB, and for the peering edge, you would be billed only for what you use, based on the accepted 95th percentile model.

Here is a video that shows more of what I meant to say regarding profiling:

http://www.arbornetworks.com/images/Webcasts/plusnet/


FK

[Haris Shamsi]

Yup , you are absolutely right and there is no question about it .. IX(s) have to emerge however they require content to be lcoally hosted, so once we have done a study b/w two ISPs in pakistan and per day bandwidth utilization b/w them was not more that 1 Mb or so and we were better off doing it through ITI ( CYBERNET & SUPERNET )

 

Far before this if you remeber Mr. Bhutta (ex ISPAK) intiated a project to pull E1s b/w ISP ( although model got failed because of many reason however the major one would have been the non interest from operator because the cost was not justified to bring that infrastrcutre up)

 

For all those models (other than accumulative byes charging ) you need to have an eco system where there is1-  a traffic flow internally b/w SPs 2- Costing less than you spend on your upstream

 

Still today if i have a 2 Mb traffic from your user to my user i am better off routing it through my up stream (in terms of cost etc) rather than going for a DPLC.

 

However this model drastically changes once you have locally hosted content on servers or at peers (among users) and 100% your BOD or POD works.

 

my 2 cents

Haris Shamsi

[Sameer Bokhari]

If 90% market is of normal users (usage less than 10GB) then why put a Volume cap on a product?

 

Sameer

----- Original Message -----

From: Haris Shamsi

To: telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:09 AM

Subject: Re: Mobilink Infinity

[Haris Shamsi]

Exactly this is my point Sameer , in the industry specially for data the things are driven usually by perceptions :)

[Faisal Khan]

Quality of Service is one factor - over-selling is another, and the fact that 90% of the users utilize volume data through the pipes during peak-traffic periods is another. No matter how much bandwidth SP buy, its still a finite amount of data-transfer, and even less so when you consider overhead traffic, P2P/Torrent and peak spikes that SPs have to deal with - (SPs are forced to buy a bigger pipe, just to deal with the working day traffic spikes they have).

Either traffic shaping needs to be done - or bandwidth caps need to be introduced.

[Tee Emm]

On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Faisal Khan <babus...@gmail.com> wrote:

Either traffic shaping needs to be done - or bandwidth caps need to be introduced.

The above holds true if you are a customer. For 'bandwidth providers', there should be little sense in limiting its own services - of bandwidth provisioning.

That said, in the absence of traffic localization, the entire country/local industry has become a customer (of Global transit capacity providers). When the provider spirit is revived in the industry, the needs of shaping traffic will shift from the providers gateways to enterprise and business LAN gateways!

Don't limit the business :)

[Faisal Khan]

P2P has been and will always be a percentage of your bandwidth. No matter how much bandwidth you buy, its percentage value nearly remains the same. So traffic shaping becomes necessary (at least during the peak times). Having said this, I do agree - localized traffic needs to be spun locally.