The Pickering Tape
K. Paul Johnson
macleod
the Internet.
K. Paul Johnson wrote in message <378f3136.0@vlinsvr>...
>What is it? Details welcome.
bere...@my-deja.com
> What is it? Details welcome.
>
Dear Paul Johnson,
The Pickering Tape is the taped conversation between a Mr. Pickering
(an owner of a travel agency) and Judge James Nelson and Robert C.
Henderson of the US NSA recorded sometime in 1991. In it James Nelson
and Bob Henderson proceed to threaten Pickering to withdraw a limited
service he had put together for those who could not otherwise afford
the overpriced 1992 NYC Baha'i World Congress package of the US NSA.
The tape is very revealing of the sort of sleazy activity the Baha'i
administration is capable of. And had Pickering taken the taped
conversation to the Justice Department at the time, the US NSA (and
especially Robert Hendrson and James Nelson) could very well have been
prosecuted for conspiracy and commiting monopolistic business practices.
Berekiah Zarco
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
K. Paul Johnson
: The tape is very revealing of the sort of sleazy activity the Baha'i
: administration is capable of. And had Pickering taken the taped
: conversation to the Justice Department at the time, the US NSA (and
: especially Robert Hendrson and James Nelson) could very well have been
: prosecuted for conspiracy and commiting monopolistic business practices.
This inspires a general question. Do you believe, as Juan does,
that the corruption and totalitarian leanings of the current
Baha'i situation are accidental, and everything could be
different if things had developed differently in the last few
decades? Or do you believe, as I do, that the entire belief
system makes this kind of thing inevitable due to the emphasis on
infallibility and non-accountability? Or something in between?
Mesbah Javid
news:7n3ke8$i6r$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
| The Pickering Tape is the taped conversation between a Mr.
Pickering
| (an owner of a travel agency) and Judge James Nelson and
Robert C.
| Henderson of the US NSA recorded sometime in 1991.
Even if these individuals are the most corrupt people,
they have nothing to do with the reality of the Baha'i
Faith. You cannot judge a world religion by considering a
handful of arrogant individuals.
Patrick Henry
I'd very much like to receive a copy of it so that when my fellow
Bahais who are fanatics sue me I might submit portions of it to
the judge and jury as further evidence of the corruption rampant
in the Bahai faith which I and others are merely using our constitutional
guarantee of free speech to expose.
--
Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death!"
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
Into the Ruins: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967042127/
<bere...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7n3ke8$i6r$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> :
> > What is it? Details welcome.
> >
>
> Dear Paul Johnson,
>
> The Pickering Tape is the taped conversation between a Mr. Pickering
> (an owner of a travel agency) and Judge James Nelson and Robert C.
> Henderson of the US NSA recorded sometime in 1991. In it James Nelson
> and Bob Henderson proceed to threaten Pickering to withdraw a limited
> service he had put together for those who could not otherwise afford
> the overpriced 1992 NYC Baha'i World Congress package of the US NSA.
> The tape is very revealing of the sort of sleazy activity the Baha'i
> administration is capable of. And had Pickering taken the taped
> conversation to the Justice Department at the time, the US NSA (and
> especially Robert Hendrson and James Nelson) could very well have been
> prosecuted for conspiracy and commiting monopolistic business practices.
>
Saman Ahmadi
Arthur Andersen, one of the Big 6 Accounting firms
in the US, audited the finances of the 1992 World Congress
and, as I understand, found no impropriety.
-saman
P.S. Fred, you're free to wonder why I've been absent
for awhile.
Mesbah Javid
This vital force is dying out, this mighty agency has
been scorned, this radiant light obscured, this impregnable
stronghold abandoned, this beauteous robe discarded. God
Himself has indeed been dethroned from the hearts of men,
and an idolatrous world passionately and clamorously hails
and worships the false gods which its own idle fancies have
fatuously created, and its misguided hands so impiously
exalted. The chief idols in the desecrated temple of mankind
are none other than the triple gods of Nationalism,
Racialism and Communism, at whose altars governments and
peoples, whether democratic or totalitarian, at peace or at
war, of the East or of the West, Christian or Islamic, are,
in various forms and in different degrees, now worshiping.
Their high priests are the politicians and the worldly-wise,
the so-called sages of the age; their sacrifice, the flesh
and blood of the slaughtered multitudes; their incantations
outworn shibboleths and insidious and irreverent formulas;
their incense, the smoke of anguish that ascends from the
lacerated hearts of the bereaved, the maimed, and the
homeless.
The theories and policies, so unsound, so pernicious,
which deify the state and exalt the nation above mankind,
which seek to subordinate the sister races of the world to
one single race, which discriminate between the black and
the white, and which tolerate the dominance of one
privileged class over all others - these are the dark, the
false, and crooked doctrines for which any man or people who
believes in them, or acts upon them, must, sooner or later,
incur the wrath and chastisement of God.
(Shoghi Effendi: The Promised Day is Come, Pages: 113-114)
<bere...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7n5tq9$ega$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
| Dear K. Paul Johnson:
|
| You said:
|
| > This inspires a general question. Do you believe, as
Juan does,
| > that the corruption and totalitarian leanings of the
current
| > Baha'i situation are accidental, and everything could be
| > different if things had developed differently in the
last few
| > decades?
|
| Yes, definitely. There is much evidence to show that
Baha'u'llah,
| `Abdu'l-Baha did not envisage the kind of system we have
before us
| today. And I will say this: it was to some degree the
fault of Shoghi
| Effendi (or, rather, the Shoghi Effendi era) which set the
pretext for
| the authoritarianism current in Baha'i now. The vision of
Shoghi Effendi
| was imo largely shaped by the era he became a thinking
adult in. And
| remember this was the post-WW I era where liberal
democracies in Western
| Europe began to go on the defensive and give way to
fascism and National
| Socialism; in the Middle East we witness the rise of
Ataturk and in Iran
| that of Reza Shah, etc. But above all this is the era
where Leninism
| triumphs over the hearts and minds of the Left, and I
believe this is
| where the key lies. Shoghi Effendi was a closet Leninist,
imv, and was
| much inspired by its message. Notice how the Baha'i
administration
| functions under the democratic-centralist model of Lenin
and the old
| Soviet-style Communist parties in most aspects. But look
at how much the
| triumphalistic language and imminentist world-outlook of
SE resembles
| that of Marxism-Leninism. The reason therefore why the
Baha'i
| administration has become so authoritarian is because it
was designed to
| be a 'Vanguard Party' by its architect. IMO, this isn't at
all what the
| two Baha'i Central Figures had in mind.
|
| > Or do you believe, as I do, that the entire belief
| > system makes this kind of thing inevitable due to the
emphasis on
| > infallibility and non-accountability? Or something in
between?
|
| I think the way the system is working now this sort of
thing becomes
| inevitable. Reform the system, place safeguards, checks
and balances,
| and you prevent this sort of thing from happening. But
unfortunately the
| Baha'is leaders are not prepared to do this and don't even
see a
| problem or the need to adjust. It's all very depressing.
bere...@my-deja.com
bere...@my-deja.com
the internet remind me of the "tablighat Islami" (propagators of Islam)
types back in Iran in the 1970s: i.e. dogmatic, narrow-minded, insistent
and ever ready with the scriptural quote.
The point is not whether Shoghi Effendi was himself a communist or
not. The point is that the current Baha'i administration mirrors the
democratic-centralist model envisaged by Lenin. Democratic in that at
the grass-roots (LSA) level individuals are elected by the rank-and-file
Baha'i. But centralist in that all major policy decision making is
centralized and top-down, individual initiative is strongly discouraged
and the rank-and-file are not allowed to dissent or strongly disagree
with the policies of the elected and appointed branches. This is exactly
how the old Soviet-style communist parties worked. In practice there was
nothing democratic about them, just as there is no longer anything
remotely democratic about the Baha'i administration.
Now, that Shoghi thought Communism, Racialism and Nationalism were
false gods is completely beside the point. I am merely presenting an
argument based on years of observation on the structural dynamics of the
AO which to me is no more than democratic-centralism in a religious
garb. Indeed an irony of history if there ever was one.
Berekiah Zarco
bere...@my-deja.com
> Can you post a transcript of the tape on talk.religion.bahai?
I'd have to sit and listen to the tape and transcribe the entire
conversation word for word. But I'm pretty sure a transcription already
exists of it since I remember someone posting a transcription some years
back on Talisman I.
> I'd very much like to receive a copy of it so that when my fellow
> Bahais who are fanatics sue me I might submit portions of it to
> the judge and jury as further evidence of the corruption rampant
> in the Bahai faith which I and others are merely using our
> constitutional guarantee of free speech to expose.
Dear Patrick, no Baha'i administration will be able to sue you as things
stand right now. The last time they tried something like it (i.e. with
Ahmad Sohrab) they lost big time and looked totally foolish in the eyes
of the thinking world, and I'm sure the Baha'i authorities do not want
more bad pr than they've already gotten. Besides they don't even have
the sort of financial muscle that the Church of Scientology regularly
uses against its dissidents - at least not yet. They will probably keep
trying to intimidate you into silence (as they already seem to have
tried). Just keep your chin up, stick to verifiable facts, accounts of
others as well as personal impressions and no one can touch you. I
wouldn't be worried. The internet has changed everything.
Berekiah Zarco
> --
> Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death!"
> The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
> Into the Ruins: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967042127/
>
> <bere...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7n3ke8$i6r$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > :
> > > What is it? Details welcome.
> > >
> >
> > Dear Paul Johnson,
> >
> > The Pickering Tape is the taped conversation between a Mr. Pickering
> > (an owner of a travel agency) and Judge James Nelson and Robert C.
> > Henderson of the US NSA recorded sometime in 1991. In it James
Nelson
> > and Bob Henderson proceed to threaten Pickering to withdraw a
limited
> > service he had put together for those who could not otherwise afford
> > the overpriced 1992 NYC Baha'i World Congress package of the US NSA.
> > The tape is very revealing of the sort of sleazy activity the
Baha'i
> > administration is capable of. And had Pickering taken the taped
> > conversation to the Justice Department at the time, the US NSA (and
> > especially Robert Hendrson and James Nelson) could very well have
been
> > prosecuted for conspiracy and commiting monopolistic business
practices.
> >
Patrick Henry
in the Talisman archives. Perhaps you could
send me the tape through snail mail or email me the
copy from Talisman if you know where to find
it there. I'd appreciate it.
Given the low and dirty tricks my fellow Bahais have
so often resorted to in their attempt to suppress
free speech and conscience, I'm not as confident
as you are that they won't try to sue me and
want all the insurance I can get. Besides, I'm
genuinely interested in the Pickering Tape as
another instance of Bahai deceit and abuse of
power. I'd also like to add a copy of it to my
website so that others might have access to it
and be able to decide for themselves.
I'd appreciate anyone's help on this one.
--
Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death!"
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
Into the Ruins: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967042127/
<bere...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7n6ken$m29$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Patrick Henry
Chris Manvell
wrote:
>
>
>Arthur Andersen, one of the Big 6 Accounting firms
>in the US, audited the finances of the 1992 World Congress
>and, as I understand, found no impropriety.
I would be most surprised if they did find anything wrong. Where I was
disappointed was in finding that some of those in the UK who made their
own travel/hotel arrangements ended up financially much better off than
those who used the official booking form. It seemed to me that the
system for getting discounts for bulk bookings broke down somewhere and
we ended up just paying the going rate for hotels and flights.
Didn't stop it from being the most wonderful experience though.
--
Chris Manvell Tel.:+44(0)1471-822 317
Breacais Iosal, Isle of Skye, Scotland. Fax.:+44(0)870-056 8081
Personal Web site: <http://manvell.org.uk/>
Association for Baha'i Studies (English-Speaking Europe):
<www.breacais.demon.co.uk/BSR/> and <www.bahai-library.org/bsr/>
Sgriobtiurean Creidimh nam Baha-i (with English Translations)
<http://www.breacais.demon.co.uk/gaelic/>
Roger Reini
>Dear K. Paul Johnson:
>
>You said:
>
>> This inspires a general question. Do you believe, as Juan does,
>> that the corruption and totalitarian leanings of the current
>> Baha'i situation are accidental, and everything could be
>> different if things had developed differently in the last few
>> decades?
>
>Yes, definitely. There is much evidence to show that Baha'u'llah,
>`Abdu'l-Baha did not envisage the kind of system we have before us
>today. And I will say this: it was to some degree the fault of Shoghi
>Effendi (or, rather, the Shoghi Effendi era) which set the pretext for
>the authoritarianism current in Baha'i now. The vision of Shoghi Effendi
>was imo largely shaped by the era he became a thinking adult in. And
>remember this was the post-WW I era where liberal democracies in Western
>Europe began to go on the defensive and give way to fascism and National
>Socialism; in the Middle East we witness the rise of Ataturk and in Iran
>that of Reza Shah, etc. But above all this is the era where Leninism
>triumphs over the hearts and minds of the Left, and I believe this is
>where the key lies. Shoghi Effendi was a closet Leninist, imv, and was
>much inspired by its message.
I find this very difficult to believe, especially when he made
statements like these:
The theories and policies, so unsound, so pernicious, which deify
the state and exalt the nation above mankind, which seek to
subordinate the sister races of the world to one single race, which
discriminate between the black and the white, and which tolerate the
dominance of one privileged class over all others - these are the
dark, the false, and crooked doctrines for which any man or people who
believes in them, or acts upon them, must, sooner or later, incur the
wrath and chastisement of God.
"Movements," is the warning sounded by Abdu'l-Baha, "newly born
and worldwide in their range, will exert their utmost effort for the
advancement of their designs. The Movement of the Left will acquire
great importance. Its influence will spread."
Contrasting with, and irreconcilably opposed to, these
war-engendering, world-convulsing doctrines are the healing, the
saving, the pregnant truths proclaimed by Baha'u'llah, the Divine
Organizer and Savior of the whole human race - truths which should be
regarded as the animating force and the hallmark of His Revelation:
"The world is but one country, and mankind its citizens." "Let not a
man glory in that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this,
that he loves his kind." And again: "Ye are the fruits of one tree,
and the leaves of one branch."
(Shoghi Effendi: The Promised Day is Come, Pages: 113-114)
Mesbah Javid
news:7n6iu2$lmb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
| The point is that the current Baha'i administration
mirrors
| the democratic-centralist model envisaged by Lenin.
Abdu'l-Baha said that: "there is a fragrance of
communism idealogy in the Baha'i Faith." [approx translation
from Persian]
However, when Lenin himself asked Abdu'l-Baha in London,
that our goals are similar so let's support each other,
Abdu'l-Baha is reported to have replied: "You want
individuals for a perfect society, but the Baha'i Faith
wants to create perfect individuals who make the society."
[approx translation]
That of course is obviously mean that no government
system can pre-define a system and claim that it is a
perfect one, and then without reforming the moral and
spiritual chracter of the individual members of society,
thinks that they can be forced into what they assumed to be
a perfect society.
So in some respect, social idealogies of Communism might
be similar to Baha'i social laws, however, the process and
method by which these goals are to be attained are
absolutely different. So different that Communism only
survived for about 75 years, but the Baha'i Faith is going
ahead for another 1000, 2000, 10000 or 20000 [Abdu'l-Baha]
years.
Saman Ahmadi
bere...@my-deja.com wrote:
> And had Pickering taken the taped
> > > conversation to the Justice Department at the time, the US NSA (and
> > > especially Robert Hendrson and James Nelson) could very well have
> been
> > > prosecuted for conspiracy and commiting monopolistic business
> practices.
> > >
What is the statue of limitation for the crime which is being
suggested? It may not be too late to pursue. Why not sue
and expose the "truth"?
I think you and Fred are getting your legal advice from the
same source.
-saman
K. Paul Johnson
You wrote:
:
: Yes, definitely. There is much evidence to show that Baha'u'llah,
: `Abdu'l-Baha did not envisage the kind of system we have before us
: today.
Agreed. Very much evidence. But going further back to the real
roots of the movement, it seems to me that there is plenty of
evidence that the Bab was triumphalistic and totalitarian in his
vision of the future. And Baha and `Abdu'l Baha, while I think
seeing pretty clearly the horrors of Babism, were too cowardly or
politic to denounce them outright. They praised the Bab to the
skies rather than saying explicitly that what they wanted for
humanity was 180 degrees from what he wanted. (Usually, although
in one place AB talked very harshly about the Bayan.) That worked in
acquiring and keeping the loyalty of the Babis. But it laid the
foundation for the undermining of everything Baha and AB wanted
and believed in. They kept the triumphalist
rhetoric while rejecting the totalitarianism. Little wonder
that Shoghi Effendi could bring the bad stuff back so easily,
since it went back to the foundation which was itself rotten.
And I will say this: it was to some degree the fault of Shoghi
: Effendi (or, rather, the Shoghi Effendi era) which set the pretext for
: the authoritarianism current in Baha'i now.
An admission that I wish were made more often by those who see
the current House and American NSA as out of sync with what Baha
and AB envisioned. They are indeed; but they are following in
SE's path.
: where the key lies. Shoghi Effendi was a closet Leninist, imv, and was
: much inspired by its message. Notice how the Baha'i administration
: functions under the democratic-centralist model of Lenin and the old
: Soviet-style Communist parties in most aspects. But look at how much the
: triumphalistic language and imminentist world-outlook of SE resembles
: that of Marxism-Leninism.
Absolutely. Which is why in the West the heyday of Bahai, the
1970s, was also the heyday of Marxism-Leninism as a fashion among
the youth. No one wants or believes in one-size-fits-all
ideologies any more.
The reason therefore why the Baha'i
: administration has become so authoritarian is because it was designed to
: be a 'Vanguard Party' by its architect. IMO, this isn't at all what the
: two Baha'i Central Figures had in mind.
True indeed. But any Baha'i can be shunned as a Covenant-breaker for
saying anything was wrong with Shoghi Effendi.
:
: I think the way the system is working now this sort of thing becomes
: inevitable. Reform the system, place safeguards, checks and balances,
: and you prevent this sort of thing from happening. But unfortunately the
: Baha'is leaders are not prepared to do this and don't even see a
: problem or the need to adjust. It's all very depressing.
Very sad for people of good will and good sense who have been
drawn into the system and now find themselves facing a crisis of
conscience.
Cheers,
Paul
Ron House
> | The point is that the current Baha'i administration
> mirrors
> | the democratic-centralist model envisaged by Lenin.
>
> communism idealogy in the Baha'i Faith." [approx translation
> from Persian]
> However, when Lenin himself asked Abdu'l-Baha in London,
> that our goals are similar so let's support each other,
> Abdu'l-Baha is reported to have replied: "You want
> individuals for a perfect society, but the Baha'i Faith
> wants to create perfect individuals who make the society."
> [approx translation]
> That of course is obviously mean that no government
> system can pre-define a system and claim that it is a
> perfect one, and then without reforming the moral and
> spiritual chracter of the individual members of society,
> thinks that they can be forced into what they assumed to be
> a perfect society.
> So in some respect, social idealogies of Communism might
> be similar to Baha'i social laws, however, the process and
> method by which these goals are to be attained are
> absolutely different. So different that Communism only
> survived for about 75 years, but the Baha'i Faith is going
> ahead for another 1000, 2000, 10000 or 20000 [Abdu'l-Baha]
> years.
I want to applaud Mesbah for this incisive and thoughtful post,
containing both interesting information and clear analysis. I was not
aware that 'Abdu'l-Baha met Lenin.
--
Ron House ho...@usq.edu.au
The evils of each age always seem self-evidently right at the time.
Mesbah Javid
news:7n7gde$mq4$1...@iceman.tac.net...
| <bere...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
| news:7n6iu2$lmb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
| | The point is that the current Baha'i administration
| mirrors
| | the democratic-centralist model envisaged by Lenin.
|
| communism idealogy in the Baha'i Faith." [approx
translation
| from Persian]
OOPS! My apologies for incorrect translation from
memory. Abdu'l-Baha wrote:
"The tree of Socialism has a fragrance from the leaves
of this Holy Tree, but this Holy Tree has every kind of
fruits. When man enters under the shadow of this Holy Tree,
he is able to eat from the fruits of all Trees."
[Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets, v3]
Smaneck
>Ahmad Sohrab) they lost big time and looked totally foolish in the eyes
>of the thinking world, and I'm sure the Baha'i authorities do not want
>more bad pr than they've already gotten.
Not so. A very similiar suit was filed against the Remeyites which the National
Spiirtual Assembly won. But there is no sense in bleeding blood out of a stone
and sense Dr. Glaysher has no academic position, and perhaps no livelihood,
what would be the sense in suiing him?
Susan Stiles Maneck
History, Stetson University
Smaneck
>> > > conversation to the Justice Department at the time, the US NSA (and
>> > > especially Robert Hendrson and James Nelson) could very well have
>> been
>> > > prosecuted for conspiracy and commiting monopolistic business
>> practices.
>> > >
>
>What is the statue of limitation for the crime which is being
>suggested? It may not be too late to pursue. Why not sue
>and expose the "truth"?
Dear Saman,
I've read the transcripts and I doubt very much that the Justice Department
would interpret this tape the same way Juan does. One of the things that came
up in this transcript, by the way, is all the problems Baha'is had had in
connection with using this travel agent to arrange their pilgrimages. They used
to require cash, and sometimes the moneys would not go to the appropriate
place. Then Baha'is would end up having to pay twice. The travel agent went
bankrupt without reimbursing the friends for those expenses. In my own case,
they tried to charge me again for something I had already payed twice. As I
understand it the travel agent who handled the World Congress was not any less
corrupt than this one, but the NSA was not aware of this until it was too late
to back out. But to my knoweldge there was no corruption on the part of the
NSA itself involved and as has been pointed out, an audit showed there was no
imappropriation of funds.
bere...@my-deja.com
> What is the statue of limitation for the crime which is being
> suggested? It may not be too late to pursue.
I've already checked on that. The ST is something like three/four years.
Unfortunately it would be too late to prosecute now.
> Why not sue
> and expose the "truth"?
There are many other issues the US NSA can be exposed on. Don't worry,
one of these days someone, somewhere will bring a massive law-suit
against something the Office of the Secretary-General of the US NSA has
done. Henderson's record of rogue behavior is ten miles long.
> I think you and Fred are getting your legal advice from the
> same source.
And what source exactly would that be, Agha-ye Ahmadi?
tarafdar-e zolm nabashid!
Patrick Henry
defame, harass, and slander for free?
Dispassionate observers won't fail to perceive the animosity
behind her postings.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
Garbage:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck3.htm
Litter:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck7.htm
--
Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death!"
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
Into the Ruins: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967042127/
Smaneck <sma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990724171528...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
Patrick Henry
#1 is Henderson
#2 is Jim Nelson (apparently releaved of his duties this spring for
stealing from a dead widow)
Patrick Henry <patric...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:7nk998$k6e$1...@news.laserlink.net...
> From the talisman archive for April 1996.
>
> --
> Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death!"
> The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
> Into the Ruins: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967042127/
>
>
>
> From jrc...@umich.eduFri Apr 12 14:50:37 1996
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 18:32:19 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Juan R Cole
> To: Rick Schaut
> Cc: "'tali...@indiana.edu'"
> Subject: RE: criticism of NSA policies
>
> Rick:
>
> I appreciate your measured response, and find myself in agreement with
> much of what you say.
>
> I brought the matter up only as an example. But for the record I have
> evidence that at least two NSA members were very intimately involved in
> supporting the Travel Agency monopoly that they set up. Moreover, if
> they did in fact step over the line and break the law by using threats of
> spiritual sanctions to reduce business competition, this would be a
> serious matter. People have gone to jail for analogous infractions, and
> public officials have resigned or been forced to resign over them. The
> NSA actions also may have cost Baha'i travel agents and their customers
> money, and subjected them to spiritual duress, which would be an arbitrary
> use of power.
>
> I enclose, so that others can judge for themselves, some passages from a
> transcript of a taped conversation between two NSA members and a Baha'i
> travel agent that took place the summer before the World Congress. Since
> I am only interested in the rights and wrongs in an abstract way, I have
> not included the names of the principals.
>
> Cheers Juan Cole, History, Univ. of Michigan
>
> NSA Member #1: We're calling, Mr. X, about your package offered for the
> World Congress. We have some concerns about it. The National Spiritual
> Assembly has asked X and me to consult with you--
>
> Baha'i Travel Agent: --O.K.
>
> NSA Member # 1: --about it and tell you what we think and make a few
> suggestions.
>
> Baha'i Travel Agent: Sure.
>
> NSA Member # 1: First of all, we're concerned that there were some
> misrepresentations made in your brochure or what looks like from the copy
> I've got--
>
> Baha'i TA: The recent one we sent out about our package? Hm hm.
>
> NSA Member # 1: And there are some incomplete and inaccuracies stated in
> yours compared to what you will be able to deliver at a guaranteed
> price . . . [expresses concern about Baha'i Travel Agent's past refusal to
> accept credit cards when arranging pilgrimages to Haifa, which has
> sometimes left Baha'is unable actually to go, and left the NSA to pay for
> their tickets) . . . We have a bit of concern that people are going to go
> for price only and neglect the essentials that you don't mention that
> they're going to get if they take the Logistics Office package. We are
> concerned that you are not going to be in a position to deliver them the
> airfares at the rate that you say. We will be, because we're locked into
> a no-lose situation. That is, if the fares go down, we get the down, if
> they go up, we get the guarantee. And . . .
>
> Baha'i Travel Agent: The same thing is true here.
>
> NSA Member # 1: We--You can do that?
>
> Baha'i Travel Agent: I work directly through US Air. Uh huh.
>
> NSA Member # 1: All right, then: I want you not to say, then, and you
> are directed not to say that if airfare prices increase substantially we
> will have to pass on the increase to the clients.
>
> Baha'i Travel Agent: All right--we've sent out a second letter. This
> was done while I was in Europe . . . I've made some corrections because
> of that. And we do not say--we say we do guarantee it . . .
>
> NSA Member # 1: Then we want you to spell out completely in your
> brochure that you do not offer transportation from the airport to the
> airport or between Jacob Javits Center and the hotel.
>
> Baha'i Travel Agent: O.k. . . . It does say that . . . [reads new
> brochure, which mentions that taxis can be taken to the Jacob Javitz
> center and that it is walking distance in good weather]
>
> NSA Member # 1: We want you to list the current price from the hotels to
> Javits and back . . .
>
> Baha'i Travel Agent: I'm not through, yet, sir . . .
>
> NSA Member # 1: I'm doing this as we go through, because I tell you
> this, when we get through we are going to publish in the American Baha'i
> a direct comparison--
>
> Baha'i Travel Agent: Hm, hm.
>
> NSA Member # 1: And I want your comparison to agree with ours.
>
> Baha'i Travel Agent: How can you do that with a business?
>
> NSA Member # 1: We are not getting you out of business. We are simply
> comparing--
>
> Baha'i Travel Agent: Oh, I know that sir. I didn't say that. I said,
> how can you require that of a business? We're just, like, representing,
> any other business.
>
> NSA Member # 1: You don't have to do it, sir.
>
> Baha'i Travel Agent: Oh, O.K.
>
> NSA Member # 1: But I tell you, you will be in some peril if you don't.
>
> [What is going on here is that the NSA has discovered that its Logistics
> Office prices are very high and can be easily undercut by Baha'i travel
> agents. This puts in doubt whether they can arrange enough reservations
> to receive the $50,000 in free suites from the official travel agency. The
> first tack it takes is that these are fly by night
> operations that don't guarantee the airfares. But this does not prove
> true. Then they want to push the idea that the competing packages are
> not full service, and don't include taxi fare (as if that could account
> for a $300 difference). At this point, the travel agent begins to
> realize that the NSA Logistics Office is trying to *compete* with him and
> trying to put conditions on how he can compete with it. He realizes that
> this is an anti-Trust violation, and questions how the NSA can place
> conditions on economic competitors. The NSA member, aware of the fine
> line he is treading, denies he is trying to prevent a competitor from
> doing business. The travel agent presses the point that NSA actions
> could nevertheless be perceived as attempting to place conditions on an
> economic competitor, which is still illegal. The NSA member realizes
> where this is going, and backs down. "You don't have to do it, sir."
> The travel agent is relieved. Then the NSA member appears to lose his
> temper. "But I tell you you will be in some peril if you don't," he
> adds. At this point I think he has stepped over the line into an illegal
> anti-trust violation. He is attempting to browbeat a competitor with the
> NSA Logistics Office, and to put conditions on the nature of the
> competition between them.)
>
> Baha'i Travel Agent: . . . We've had a number of people contact us and
> all we've tried to do is provide people who say they just cannot go with
> a way they can go. And we're not trying in any way to cut into your
> program, because we only have space for 550 . . . And all we're trying to
> do is help those like the ones in South Carolina, whole assemblies, that
> just say they could not go unless they had the less price.
>
> NSA Member # 1: You don't think our package includes the lesser price?
>
> Baha'i Travel Agent: No, sir.
>
> [NSA member # 2 alleges that the only safe way to have the World Congress
> travel accommodations taken care of is to have one Travel Agency handle
> everyone; and he intimates that the Universal House of Justice wanted the
> NSA to do it that way, though he says this in an ambiguous manner).
>
> NSA Member # 2: . . . One of our urgent concerns is that your material
> creates the impression you can provide a lower price. That is false. As
> you know, our materials indicate that the friends are guaranteed the
> lowest available price from any source at they time they travel . . .
> Your materials suggest that you can beat our prices. In fact, that is
> not true. One of the things the National Assembly wants you to address
> is the perception that you have created deliberately through your
> materials that you provide a lower cost. This suggests that the
> Institution has cheated the friends . . .
>
> [In fact, virtually any travel agent could have gotten a Baha'i a better
> price than than most Logistics Office packages afforded. This NSA member
> is either wholly uninformed or is being, uh, disingenuous. His
> suggestion that offering a lower price is forbidden because it makes the
> NSA look like it is cheating the friends is outrageous; it is an attempt
> to bully this individual into not offering competing, lower packages.
> Again, I think these statements border on illegality under anti-trust
> laws.)
>
> [This conversation went on for some time more, with much browbeating of
> the poor travel agent, and a final plea for him to withdraw his competing
> package, on the grounds that he could simply not provide a better price
> than did the Logistics Office. It is hard not to conclude that all
> parties here knew that the travel agent could in fact substantially
> undercut Logistics Office prices, but that putting things this way was a
> polite cover for bullying a competitor.\}
>
> Please note that I don't think the NSA members were personally profiting
> from the arrangements that had been made. I think their concerns are as
> they repeatedly stated them. They liked the idea of a centralized Travel
> Agency with a standardized package that cut down on the likelihood of
> out-of-town Baha'is wandering around New York (one caller inquired about
> camping facilities in New Jersey from the Logistics Office or their
> Travel Agent, and were told that there *were none!* When a complaint was
> lodged, Wilmette replied that they hadn't wanted people camping out).
> The official Travel Agency was offering the sweetener of $50,000 in free
> rooms if a certain number of Baha'is used them, and the NSA for some
> reason was fixated on getting this bonus (which, it is true, benefitted
> the Fund in a small way, not individuals). And since the NSA had
> made this unwise and untrue claim that their package was guaranteed the
> cheapest, they minded that being demonstrated to be untrue (were they
> afraid they might become responsible for the difference, themselves? Or
> just that someone would think they were taking profits or a kickback?
> There is no evidence of the latter).
>
> The fact remains that their solution to these problems, of bullying
> Baha'i Travel Agents (there were others) into cancelling competing
> reservations was at the least unethical and an arbitrary use of the
> spiritual authority they have; and was possibly even illegal. Along with
> their earlier bullying of the Dialogue editors, and their recent attempt
> to coerce the speech of one of our Talismanians, all this amounts to a
> worrisome *pattern* of behavior which I myself have difficulty seeing as
> very Baha'i-like. The naivete of the general run of Baha'is and their
> refusal to accept that any irregularities could occur in Wilmette by
> virtue of divine grace have perhaps deprived the NSA of useful community
> feedback on these sorts of problem.
>
>
>
Patrick Henry
I believe a full transcript of this tape is still much needed for
the Bahais and others to understand what truly took place.
I would be happy to transcribe and post the entire tape if
someone would like to send it to me, anonymously or
otherwise, at
PO Box 81842
Rochester, Michigan 48308
--
Frederick Glaysher, "Give me liberty or give me death!"
michaelzh...@gmail.com
I was once questioned by the FBI because she complained that I'd "threatened" her.
What a stupid Bitch.
