The Ukraine's coup

[Oleg Smirnov]

<https://www.facebook.com/TheOliverStone>

.. Interviewed Viktor Yanukovych 4 hours in Moscow for new English language
documentary produced by Ukrainians. He was the legitimate President of Ukraine
until he suddenly wasn’t on February 22 of this year. Details to follow in the
documentary, but it seems clear that the so-called ‘shooters’ who killed 14
police men, wounded some 85, and killed 45 protesting civilians, were outside
third party agitators. Many witnesses, including Yanukovych and police
officials, believe these foreign elements were introduced by pro-Western
factions-- with CIA fingerprints on it.

Remember the Chavez ‘regime change’/coup of 2002 when he was temporarily
ousted after pro and anti-Chavez demonstrators were fired upon by mysterious
shooters in office buildings. Also resembles similar technique early this year
in Venezuela when Maduro’s legally elected Government was almost toppled by
violence aimed at anti-Maduro protestors. Create enough chaos, as the CIA did
in Iran ‘53, Chile ‘73, and countless other coups, and the legitimate
Government can be toppled. It’s America’s soft power technique called ‘Regime
Change 101.’

In this case the “Maidan Massacre” was featured in Western media as the result
of an unstable, brutal pro-Russian Yanukovych Government. You may recall
Yanukovych went along with the February 21 deal with opposition parties and 3
EU foreign minsters to get rid of him by calling for early elections. The next
day that deal was meaningless when well-armed, neo-Nazi radicals forced
Yanukovych to flee the country with repeated assassination attempts. By the
next day, a new pro-Western government was established and immediately
recognized by the US (as in the Chavez 2002 coup).

A dirty story through and through, but in the tragic aftermath of this coup,
the West has maintained the dominant narrative of “Russia in Crimea” whereas
the true narrative is “USA in Ukraine.” The truth is not being aired in the
West. It’s a surreal perversion of history that’s going on once again, as in
Bush pre-Iraq ‘WMD’ campaign. But I believe the truth will finally come out in
the West, I hope, in time to stop further insanity. ..

[Mr. B1ack]

The ultraright EU-sponsored coup in Ukraine is
a done deal now ... there's really nothing to be
done about it for a long time. Eventually when
Ukraines oil & gas are exhausted the EU will
abandon them, but that's a long time off.

Regardless, Putins de-facto annexation of
eastern Ukraine also seems a done deal. He
will NOT cave in to western economic schemes
to weaken Russia or himself. That's not in the
Russian character. He will keep what he took
and that's that. However he may find ways to
take revenge on his accusers ..........

[Oleg Smirnov]

Mr. B1ack, <news:ie97aadb1g4v2uolo...@4ax.com>

The issue is, the current Ukraine regime is very unstable, it
rests mainly on the nationalist hysteria, - as soon as they stop
to pump the hysteria and misinformation via their media the
people may quite likely turn against the current power. Thus it
looks like the only mean of survival for the current figures in
Kiev is to escalate the insane hysteria further. It's difficult
to imagine where it can lead to.

[Jonathan]

"Oleg Smirnov" <ve...@gde.ru> wrote in message
news:m7vvtf$rq4$1...@os.motzarella.org...

> <https://www.facebook.com/TheOliverStone>
>
> .. Interviewed Viktor Yanukovych 4 hours in Moscow for new English
> language
> documentary produced by Ukrainians. He was the legitimate President of
> Ukraine

> until he suddenly wasnâ?Tt on February 22 of this year. Details to follow
> in the
> documentary, but it seems clear that the so-called â?~shootersâ?T who

> killed 14
> police men, wounded some 85, and killed 45 protesting civilians, were
> outside
> third party agitators. Many witnesses, including Yanukovych and police
> officials, believe these foreign elements were introduced by pro-Western
> factions-- with CIA fingerprints on it.
>

I'm not surprised Yanukovych is blaming someone else, not
one little bit.

Well here's a couple videos of Ukrainian police shooting
at protesters. Claiming a good dozen or so CIA agents were
standing there in broad daylight, in the middle of the square
dressed just like Ukranian forces, shooting people
would be one heluva conspiracy theory.

Ggood enough for even ...Oliver Stone.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQhuD4F1yJ0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y_Q_LXNGj8



Oh and while you're at it, remember how the American
revolution began? "The shot heard round the world"

It was really French spies that started that revolution~


> Remember the Chavez â?~regime changeâ?T/coup of 2002 when he was

> temporarily
> ousted after pro and anti-Chavez demonstrators were fired upon by
> mysterious
> shooters in office buildings.

Most people that shoot at civilians try very hard to hide their identity.
Why do you think murderers don't wear name tags on their shirts?

At least in Ukraine they wore government issued uniforms
and stood out in the middle of the street for all to see.
Not so mysterious!



s

Also resembles similar technique early this year

> in Venezuela when Maduroâ?Ts legally elected Government was almost toppled

> by
> violence aimed at anti-Maduro protestors. Create enough chaos, as the CIA
> did

> in Iran â?~53, Chile â?~73, and countless other coups, and the legitimate
> Government can be toppled. Itâ?Ts Americaâ?Ts soft power technique called
> â?~Regime
> Change 101.â?T
>
> In this case the â?oMaidan Massacreâ?ť was featured in Western media as

> the result
> of an unstable, brutal pro-Russian Yanukovych Government. You may recall
> Yanukovych went along with the February 21 deal with opposition parties
> and 3
> EU foreign minsters to get rid of him by calling for early elections. The
> next
> day that deal was meaningless when well-armed, neo-Nazi radicals forced
> Yanukovych to flee the country with repeated assassination attempts. By
> the
> next day, a new pro-Western government was established and immediately
> recognized by the US (as in the Chavez 2002 coup).
>
> A dirty story through and through, but in the tragic aftermath of this
> coup,

> the West has maintained the dominant narrative of â?oRussia in Crimeaâ?ť
> whereas
> the true narrative is â?oUSA in Ukraine.â?ť The truth is not being aired
> in the
> West. Itâ?Ts a surreal perversion of history thatâ?Ts going on once again,
> as in
> Bush pre-Iraq â?~WMDâ?T campaign. But I believe the truth will finally

[Oleg Smirnov]

Jonathan, <news:vcCdnYUgmrendT7J...@giganews.com>

> "Oleg Smirnov" <ve...@gde.ru> wrote in message

>> <https://www.facebook.com/TheOliverStone>
>>
>> .. Interviewed Viktor Yanukovych 4 hours in Moscow for
>> new English language documentary produced by Ukrainians.
>> He was the legitimate President of Ukraine

>> until he suddenly wasnБ?Tt on February 22 of this year.

>> Details to follow in the documentary, but it seems clear

>> that the so-called Б?~shootersБ?T who killed 14

>> police men, wounded some 85, and killed 45 protesting
>> civilians, were outside third party agitators. Many
>> witnesses, including Yanukovych and police officials,
>> believe these foreign elements were introduced
>> by pro-Western factions-- with CIA fingerprints on it.
>
> I'm not surprised Yanukovych is blaming someone else, not
> one little bit.
>
> Well here's a couple videos of Ukrainian police shooting
> at protesters.

As I already told, in the preceding days before the coup,
the groups of protesters seized warehouses with arms / police
stations, mostly in the West Ukraune, and the next day there
were groups of militants, armed with the firearms, among the
protesters in Kiev. This fact is confirmed well, the firearmed
men among the protesters in Kiev might be seen in many then
videos including those published by Western media. After this
fact was noticed the police chief allowed a special police
unit to be firearmed and to use the weapons against those
militants who are shooting the riot police (still, the riot
police itself was not armed, and was not allowed to shoot).
This is different story, not the snipers. And your pathetic
couple of videos is just irrelevant.

> Claiming a good dozen or so CIA agents were
> standing there in broad daylight, in the middle of the
> square dressed just like Ukranian forces, shooting people
> would be one heluva conspiracy theory.
>
> Ggood enough for even ...Oliver Stone.
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQhuD4F1yJ0
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y_Q_LXNGj8
>
>
>
> Oh and while you're at it, remember how the American
> revolution began? "The shot heard round the world"
>
> It was really French spies that started that revolution~
>
>

>> Remember the Chavez Б?~regime changeБ?T/coup of 2002

>> when he was temporarily
>> ousted after pro and anti-Chavez demonstrators were
>> fired upon by mysterious
>> shooters in office buildings.
>
>
> Most people that shoot at civilians try very hard to hide
> their identity. Why do you think murderers don't wear
> name tags on their shirts?
>
> At least in Ukraine they wore government issued uniforms
> and stood out in the middle of the street for all to see.
> Not so mysterious!

...

So far nobody could present any evidence about identity of
those snipers that killed the people in Kiev. There's nothing
certain exept 'guesses'. But, as I said, the use of snipers
in an urban environment for inflammation of protesting crowd
is already quite known as quite standard 'best practice'.

>> Also resembles similar technique early this year

>> in Venezuela when MaduroБ?Ts legally elected Government

>> was almost toppled by violence aimed at anti-Maduro
>> protestors. Create enough chaos, as the CIA did

>> in Iran Б?~53, Chile Б?~73, and countless other coups,
>> and the legitimate Government can be toppled. ItБ?Ts
>> AmericaБ?Ts soft power technique called Б?~Regime
>> Change 101.Б?T
>>
>> In this case the Б?oMaidan MassacreБ?² was featured in

>> Western media as the result of an unstable, brutal
>> pro-Russian Yanukovych Government. You may recall Yanukovych
>> went along with the February 21 deal with opposition parties
>> and 3 EU foreign minsters to get rid of him by calling for
>> early elections. The next day that deal was meaningless when
>> well-armed, neo-Nazi radicals forced Yanukovych to flee the
>> country with repeated assassination attempts. By the next
>> day, a new pro-Western government was established and
>> immediately recognized by the US (as in the Chavez 2002 coup).
>>
>> A dirty story through and through, but in the tragic
>> aftermath of this coup, the West has maintained the dominant

>> narrative of Б?oRussia in CrimeaБ?² whereas the true narrative
>> is Б?oUSA in Ukraine.Б?² The truth is not being aired in the
>> West. ItБ?Ts a surreal perversion of history thatБ?Ts
>> going on once again, as in Bush pre-Iraq Б?~WMDБ?T campaign.

[Oleg Smirnov]

<https://www.facebook.com/TheOliverStone/posts/901387646552202>

Mr Stone seems to be a really brave man if he was not afraid
to put the counter-opinion from his heart against the mighty
and awful Western propaganda machine.

Via google-news I can see a bunch of venomous replies on his
post from various shitty scribblers. This public is so much
accustomed to live in a virtual reality that a touch with a
truth produces an incredible pain to them. Mr Stone is not
good. He's trying to distract them from so fun and sweet game
'let's blame Russia'. There is also nice hell and horror in
the comments to his post in facebook.

[Mr. B1ack]

On Wed, 31 Dec 2014 08:00:54 -0000, "Oleg Smirnov" <ve...@gde.ru>
wrote:

The current ruling faction - which seems to be more
a coalition of bought-off rightist factions - doesn't have
the makings of a good or stable government. It seems
likely that it will splinter and leave the country in chaos.
The EU and UN will then step in ... effectively taking
control - which is what they wanted all along anyway -
but now it'll seem 'justified', righteous, for the good of
the people.

[Oleg Smirnov]

<https://consortiumnews.com/2015/01/06/nyt-still-pretends-no-coup-in-ukraine/>

.. The New York Times keeps insisting that last year’s Ukrainian coup wasn’t
a coup and anyone who thinks so lives inside “the Russian propaganda bubble.”
But a slanted Times “investigation” shows that the newspaper remains lost
inside the U.S. government’s “propaganda bubble,” writes Robert Parry. ..

The reality of what happened in Ukraine was never hard to figure out. George
Friedman, the founder of the global intelligence firm Stratfor, called the
overthrow of Yanukovych “the most blatant coup in history.” It’s just that the
major U.S. news organizations were either complicit in the events or
incompetent in describing them to the American people. ..

Throughout the crisis, the mainstream U.S. press hammered home the theme of
white-hatted protesters versus a black-hatted president. The police were
portrayed as brutal killers who fired on unarmed supporters of “democracy.”
The good-guy/bad-guy narrative was all the American people heard from the
major media.

The New York Times went so far as to delete the slain policemen from the
narrative and simply report that the police had killed all those who died in
the Maidan. A typical Times report on March 5, 2014, summed up the storyline:
“More than 80 protesters were shot to death by the police as an uprising
spiraled out of control in mid-February.”

The mainstream U.S. media also sought to discredit anyone who observed the
obvious fact that an unconstitutional coup had just occurred. A new theme
emerged that portrayed Yanukovych as simply deciding to abandon his government
because of the moral pressure from the noble and peaceful Maidan protests.

Any reference to a “coup” was dismissed as “Russian propaganda.” There was a
parallel determination in the U.S. media to discredit or ignore evidence that
neo-Nazi militias had played an important role in ousting Yanukovych and in
the subsequent suppression of anti-coup resistance in eastern and southern
Ukraine. That opposition among ethnic-Russian Ukrainians simply became
“Russian aggression.”

This refusal to notice what was actually a remarkable story – the willful
unleashing of Nazi storm troopers on a European population for the first time
since World War II – reached absurd levels as the New York Times and the
Washington Post buried references to the neo-Nazis at the end of stories,
almost as afterthoughts.

The Washington Post went to the extreme of rationalizing Swastikas and other
Nazi symbols by quoting one militia commander as calling them “romantic”
gestures by impressionable young men. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “Ukraine’s
‘Romantic’ Neo-Nazi Storm Troopers.”]

Yet, despite the best efforts of the Times, the Post and other mainstream
outlets to conceal this ugly reality from the American people, alternative
news sources – presenting a more realistic account of what was happening in
Ukraine – began to chip away at the preferred narrative.

Instead of buying the big media’s storyline, many Americans were coming to
realize that the reality was much more complicated and that they were again
being sold a bill of propaganda goods. ..

> <https://www.facebook.com/TheOliverStone>

[jack595]

In article <m8j9h9$7b2$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/01/06/nyt-still-pretends-no-coup-in-ukraine/

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> <https://www.facebook.com/TheOliverStone/posts/901387646552202>
>
> Mr Stone seems to be a really brave man if he was not afraid
> to put the counter-opinion from his heart against the mighty
> and awful Western propaganda machine.

What would he be afraid of? Stone's "Untold History of the United
States" is what some might call 'contentious', but no-one's bumped him
off for it yet.

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://www.chron.com/news/world/article/France-Europe-hurting-from-Russia-sanctions-5998776.php>
"Emmanuel Macron told The Associated Press that Europe has a "collective
responsibility" to maintain pressure on Russia .."

So the US government twists arms of its vassals demanding from them to take
part in a disgusting collective lie / fraud - that is not a 'free democratic
world', but such mores are more typical for criminal communities.

Shame to Europe.

[Oleg Smirnov]

jack595, <news:m8jiq...@drn.newsguy.com>
> In article <m8jhe2$7tb$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov

>>>>> Where Mother Russia wants to keep Ukraine close to
>>>>> its lovin g arms, Ukraine sees another path to what
>>>>> it feels is another place, Europe.
>>>>
>>>> Don't speak for 'Ukraine', Jack. You were not elected
>>>> to represent 'Ukraine' and to say what it 'sees' or
>>>> 'wants', your incompetent far-fetched 'theories' are
>>>> silly. And if the today's breakaway areas took part in
>>>> the common vote the result of people's vote might be
>>>> different.
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise why the coup would be needed.
>>>>
>>>>> The idea
>>>>> that Poland sees the Russian attempt to keep Ukraine
>>>>> close to its loving arms is a sign that the other path
>>>>> exists. Think of a Europe that includes such pivots as
>>>>> Poland, Turkey and the Baltics, nudging up against a
>>>>> Russia running out of money and looking towards an
>>>>> army that might not respond.
>>>>>
>>>>> Enough of this, back to cut and paste.
>>>>
>>>> You've no clue.
>>>
>>> Here is the hypocrisy, I can't speak for Ukraine because
>>> I am not elected, while the also unelected voice of
>>> Russia can.
>>
>> The voice of Russia didn't.
>>
>>> I think I speak a truth that all the denials cannot
>>> deny.
>>
>> Your 'truth' is not based on facts.
>
> You asked for them here are the facts:

Your 'facts' are a babbling, and the facts are as follows.

February 21 Yanukovych has signed the agrrement with the
opposition leaders, guaranteed on behalf of the EU by three
not just 'diplomats' but foreign ministers.

This agreement stipulated that Y. orders riot police to
withdraw from the streets of Kiev while the leaders of the
opposition provide disarmament of 'peaceful protesters'.

Yanukovych fulfilled his part of the agreement while the
opposition did not. Those f*cking EU 'guarantors' might
easily fullfill the warranty they had have signed. They
could just say to the opposition: if you refuse to fulfill
your part of the agreement it would not be legitimate and
decent, we'll not support you. Instead they pretended they
do not see what is going on, and allowed the firearmed
neo-Nazi militant groups (aka. 'peaceful protesters') to
storm the main government buildings in the next day.

Yanukovych moved to another Ukraine city, Kharkov. With
that, already February 23/24, the Western top official had
have made it clear that they approve lawlessness in Kiev.
Immediately the junta declared Y. a criminal and began to
hunt him, so he had to exit the country.

The f*cking Western guarantors might stop the lawlessness
and insanity twice, but they didn't. If they did, there
would be a normal legal political process, and the people
of the Ukraine might achieve their national consensus in
a decent, peaceful and democratic way. But instead the
Western powers approved the illigitimate extremists as the
self-proclamed 'government'.

However, people in Crimea and Donbas did not like that,
and protests against the coup have been risen up there.
The protests were from the grassroots but the junta in Kiev
and the f*cking Western politicians and the mass media
immediately declared it as a work of diversionists sent by
Putin. As the junta in Kiev along with the f*cking Western
politicians made it clear they will blatantly ignore the
interests of the people in Crimea and Donbas, Russia has
become the only power that could protect / support them.

The continuation of the story is known.

Now, rather than admit the misdeeds and think decently
about how to resolve the situation, your idealist-idiotist
Obama stupidly tries to crusade Russia.

> KIEV, Ukraine ≈ Ashen-faced after a sleepless night of
> marathon negotiations, Viktor F. Yanukovych hesitated,
> shaking his pen above the text placed before him in the
> chandeliered hall. Then, under the unsmiling gaze of
> European diplomats and his political enemies, the
> beleaguered Ukrainian president scrawled his signature,
> sealing a deal that he believed would keep him in power,
> at least for a few more months.
>
> But even as Mr. Yanukovych sat down with his political
> foes at the presidential administration building on the
> afternoon of Friday, Feb. 21, his last authority was fast
> draining away. In a flurry of frantic calls to opposition
> lawmakers, police officials and security commanders were
> making clear that they were more worried about their own
> safety than protecting Mr. Yanukovych and his government.
>
> By that evening, he was gone, evacuated from the capital
> by helicopter, setting the stage for the most severe bout
> of East-West tensions since the Cold War.
>
> Russia has attributed Mr. Yanukovych▓s ouster to what it
> portrays as a violent, ⌠neo-fascist■ coup supported and
> even choreographed by the West and dressed up as a
> popular uprising. The Kremlin has cited this assertion,
> along with historical ties, as the main justification for
> its annexation of Crimea in March and its subsequent
> support for an armed revolt by pro-Russian separatists in
> Ukraine▓s industrial heartland in the east.

[Byker]

"Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message news:m8jfbm$v6a$1...@os.motzarella.org...

>
> So the US government twists arms of its vassals demanding from them to
> take part in a disgusting collective lie / fraud - that is not a 'free
> democratic world', but such mores are more typical for criminal
> communities.
>
> Shame to Europe.

Speaking of Europe, what will NATO do if Putin decides to take Poland or the
Baltic states, and Obama drags his feet in response (as usual)? They will
do NOTHING. Without the U.S., NATO couldn't pour piss out of a boot...



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

[Oleg Smirnov]

Byker, <news:deKdnZFdoeugIjDJ...@earthlink.com>

> "Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message

>> So the US government twists arms of its vassals
>> demanding from them to take part in a disgusting
>> collective lie / fraud - that is not a 'free democratic
>> world', but such mores are more typical for criminal
>> communities.
>>
>> Shame to Europe.
>
> Speaking of Europe, what will NATO do if Putin decides to
> take Poland or the Baltic states,

Why do you have such a rather wild guesses?

Why the hell Putin would invade Poland if it is well
known that the Poles are proud to be in Poland and in
no way want to be in Russia? So why would Russia need
the Poles within itself, for what? The hysterical
cries from Poland is nothing but a sly and dirty trick.
They know very well that Russia has absolutely no
interest to 'invade' them. There are issues related to
local Russian-speaking people in the Baltic states but
they are quite different from the Ukraine.

And why would Russia be concerned about its neighbors'
affairs if they sort their issues out in a lawful and
democratic way, and nobody stages violent coups there.

[Byker]

"Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message news:m8kgl4$jt1$1...@os.motzarella.org...

>
> And why would Russia be concerned about its neighbors'
> affairs if they sort their issues out in a lawful and
> democratic way, and nobody stages violent coups there.

He might not have to invade. All he has to do is incite Russian-speaking
Poles or Balts to get radical and claim "persecution" in the hopes that
Mother Russia will come to their rescue like in Ukraine. Something to think
about considering all the Russians that Stalin moved into conquered
territory to settle down, becoming a sizeable minority to "rescue" at some
future date if the need ever arose.

Understandably, the Finns have been taking note of Putin's boasts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Mainila

[Oleg Smirnov]

Byker, <news:vqOdnZrq0YiNVDDJ...@earthlink.com>

> "Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message news:m8kgl4$jt1$1...@os.motzarella.org...
>>
>> And why would Russia be concerned about its neighbors'
>> affairs if they sort their issues out in a lawful and
>> democratic way, and nobody stages violent coups there.
>
> He might not have to invade. All he has to do is incite
> Russian-speaking Poles

There is no Russian-speaking Poles (or, more correctly,
most of the Poles are Russian-speaking a little), Poland
is extremely mono-ethnic state in Europe.

> or Balts to get radical and claim
> "persecution" in the hopes that Mother Russia will come
> to their rescue like in Ukraine. Something to think about
> considering all the Russians that Stalin moved into
> conquered territory to settle down, becoming a sizeable
> minority to "rescue" at some future date if the need ever
> arose.

In the case of the Ukraine it's different: someone (*)
incited the west-Ukrainian nationalists to get radical
and commit the unlawful coup. As the result, for some
other part of people 'their' country has suddenly become
alien and hostile. They've found they can not stay there.

> Understandably, the Finns have been taking note of
> Putin's boasts:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Mainila

The Finns also know very well that they are in no way
needed within the modern Russia, - by similar reason as
the Poles.

[Byker]

"Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message news:m8kig8$q3o$1...@os.motzarella.org...

>
> The Finns also know very well that they are in no way needed within the
> modern Russia, - by similar reason as the Poles.

Hopefully there are no designs on the Baltic states. They have reason to be
paranoid:
http://www.dw.de/three-baltic-states-commemorate-post-war-deportations/a-4124345

Most students of WWII are aware of the deportations before and after the
Nazi occupation, but few are aware of Stalin's actions in 1949.

[Oleg Smirnov]

Byker, <news:zeCdnY423ZpqTzDJ...@earthlink.com>

> "Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message
>>

>> The Finns also know very well that they are in no way
>> needed within the modern Russia, - by similar reason as
>> the Poles.
>
> Hopefully there are no designs on the Baltic states. They
> have reason to be paranoid:
> http://www.dw.de/three-baltic-states-commemorate-post-war-deportations/a-4124345

For them there are reasons to be sane rather than paranoid.

Actually, they have various issues at home, and the deliberate
hysteria about alleged Russia's threat is nothing but a tool
for social engineering,

> Most students of WWII are aware of the deportations
> before and after the Nazi occupation, but few are aware
> of Stalin's actions in 1949.

It is in no way relevant today, and the USSR was not Russia.

[Byker]

"Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message news:m8kker$vu8$1...@os.motzarella.org...

>
> It is in no way relevant today, and the USSR was not Russia.

But before the Soviet era, Czarist Russia did its share of expanding and
conquering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire

I wonder if Putin will try to put Humpty-Dumpty back together again:
http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/05/15/putin-a-21st-century-tsar-with-russians-happy-to-trade-freedoms-for-security/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/vladimir-putin-a-21st-century-czar/article534016/?page=all

[Oleg Smirnov]

Byker, <news:NMWdnerbWeBrQjDJ...@earthlink.com>

> "Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message news:m8kker$vu8$1...@os.motzarella.org...
>>
>> It is in no way relevant today, and the USSR was not
>> Russia.
>
> But before the Soviet era, Czarist Russia did its share
> of expanding and conquering:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire
> I wonder if Putin will try to put Humpty-Dumpty back
> together again:
> http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/05/15/putin-a-21st-century-tsar-with-russians-happy-to-trade-freedoms-for-security/
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/vladimir-putin-a-21st-century-czar/article534016/?page=all

There were many things before the Soviet era and earlier,
and also remember what the Western powers did at the time,
thus we can go very far, but I don't find it necessary,

[Oleg Smirnov]

Fred J. McCall, <news:83uraa9ppm9ik2g1n...@4ax.com>

> It was none of Russia's business and certainly not an
> excuse to start carving off piece of another country.
> Even taking YOUR false interpretation it was none of
> Russia's affair.

It was business of the people of Crimea,
and they have implemented their will to leave
the 'new' Ukraine and rejoin with Russia.

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://www.praguepost.com/world-news/43706-zeman-criticizes-historical-ukrainian-leaders>

Prague, Jan 8 (ČTK) — Czech President Milos Zeman has criticized Ukrainian
leaders Stepan Bandera (1909-59) and Roman Shukhevych (1907-50), saying he
cannot congratulate Ukraine on such national heroes in his response to an
open letter by four Ukrainian studies scholars and historians.

In their letter from late August, they blamed Zeman for using the expression
“Bandera followers” and rejected the opinion that Bandera was a mass
murderer. .. They added that Bandera could not be a mass murderer since he
had spent the war years in a German concentration camp.

In reaction to it, Zeman asks them at the beginning of his letter whether
they know Bandera’s statement “Kill every Pole between 16 and 60 years” and
whether they agree with it.

He continues saying Bandera wanted to establish a vassal German state in
Ukraine.

“His idea was supported by Alfred Rosenberg [leader of the German Nazi NSDAP
party’s foreign policy office], but because Hitler decided that Ukraine
would be colonized exclusively by German farmers after a victorious war, this
project was scrapped and Bandera was sent to a concentration camp,” Zeman
writes.

“I would also like to point out that president [Viktor] Yushchenko declared
Bandera the hero of the nation already and that now a similar title is being
prepared for Shukhevych who became known for having let thousands of Jews be
shot dead in Lviv in 1941. Unfortunately, I cannot congratulate Ukraine on
such national heroes,” Zeman says in his letter.

...

There may be controversial interpretations and justifications of Bandera's
deeds, but it's clear that the ideology of those movements where Bandera and
other contemporary Ukrainian 'heroes' took part was largely a calque from the
German Nazism. It's understandable taking into account that before the WW2
the western areas of the modern Ukraine, where Bandera was born, belonged to
Austro-Hungary where the Ukrainians were considered a kind of backward
minority. One may find Bandera 'not as demonic' as the Soviets pictured him,
but anyway the promotion of such figures as national heroes today is clearly
a bad taste, - and it contributed to the rise of the east-Ukraine resistance.

One may question, why do they promote such figures? Isn't there more decent
figures to play the role of national heroes? The answer is, yes there is, but
most of more decent Ukraine heroes are also more Russia-friendly.

...

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://www.dw.de/gorbachev-issues-new-warning-of-nuclear-war-over-ukraine/a-18182899>

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev has warned that the crisis in Ukraine
could lead to a major war, or even a nuclear war. ..

Gorbachev accused the West and NATO of destroying the structure of European
security by expanding its alliance. "No head of the Kremlin can ignore such
a thing," he said, adding that the US was unfortunately starting to establish
a "mega empire." ..

He said Western attempts to disempower Russian President Vladimir Putin and
destabilize Russia were "very stupid and extremely dangerous."

He defended the Russian annexation of the Crimean Peninsula last year, but
criticized the Russian leader's authoritarian style of leadership. ..

[jack595]

In article <m8po77$h7u$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...

Gorbachov apparently wasn't cut into the take over deal, no villa in Switzerland
for Gorby.

[Mr. B1ack]

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 19:40:11 -0600, "Byker" <byker@do~rag.net> wrote:

>"Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message news:m8kker$vu8$1...@os.motzarella.org...
>>
>> It is in no way relevant today, and the USSR was not Russia.
>
>But before the Soviet era, Czarist Russia did its share of expanding and
>conquering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire

Piddly stuff compared to England, France and to
some extent Germany ....

I suppose you could say that the USA itself was built
by expanding and conquering .... pretty much genociding
all the original inhabitants in the process.

So ... what's that old thing that involves pots, kettles
and blackness ? :-)

[Byker]

"Mr. B1ack" wrote in message
news:pn71ba53edbujged1...@4ax.com...

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 19:40:11 -0600, "Byker" <byker@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>
>> But before the Soviet era, Czarist Russia did its share of expanding and
>> conquering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire
>
> Piddly stuff compared to England, France and to
> some extent Germany ....

Africoonians don't count

[Mr. B1ack]

On Fri, 9 Jan 2015 22:18:55 -0600, "Byker" <byker@do~rag.net> wrote:

>"Mr. B1ack" wrote in message
>news:pn71ba53edbujged1...@4ax.com...
>On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 19:40:11 -0600, "Byker" <byker@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> But before the Soviet era, Czarist Russia did its share of expanding and
>>> conquering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire
>>
>> Piddly stuff compared to England, France and to
>> some extent Germany ....
>
>Africoonians don't count

... and he wonders why everyone's out to kill us ..........

[Oleg Smirnov]

Mr. B1ack, <news:pn71ba53edbujged1...@4ax.com>

> On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 19:40:11 -0600, "Byker"

>> "Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message

>>> It is in no way relevant today, and the USSR was not
>>> Russia.
>>
>> But before the Soviet era, Czarist Russia did its share
>> of expanding and conquering:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire
>
>
> Piddly stuff compared to England, France and to
> some extent Germany ....
>
> I suppose you could say that the USA itself was built
> by expanding and conquering .... pretty much genociding
> all the original inhabitants in the process.
>
> So ... what's that old thing that involves pots, kettles
> and blackness ? :-)

All these horrors about 'Russia's expansion' and alleged
Putin's plans to 'restore empire' are silly because in
the modern realities it's simply impossible to invade and
attach a territory if a large enough part of people, not
even a vast majority, there is against that.

I just can't imagine how Russia's invasion to Finland or
Poland might look like. The ages when it was possible to
subdue conquered 'lands' by brute force seem to be gone.
You may win a military battle but what do you do next if
the people really don't like your 'order'?

[jonathan]

Gorby just doesn't want to lose his pension
so he's sucking up.

But you have it backwards, NATO isn't moving
towards Russia, most of Russia's neighbors are
frantically moving (running) [fled] away from
Russia as fast as they possibly can, yesterday
isn't soon enough!

While Go-ogling madly..."how much does tall fence
cost per unit 100 miles'? With which to keep
Russia out.

There's a joke, it goes...

'if you're always complaining how you can never find
a good roommate, maybe...you're the bad roommate~

The whole world is against Russia right now!
Take a hint!

Russia's best (only) allies are...


1) 'Chemical' Assad
2) 'Hollywood' Kim Jong-un
3) Ayatollah 'Islamic-Bomb' Ali Khamenei
4) Your trusting Chinese brothers (hehe)


These are the nations Putin is relying on
coming to help him when the chips are down.
Put those fearless leaders in the same room
together, it'd look like a bad sci-fi movie!

Putin's ...'Plan B from Outer Space'


Plan 9 from Outer Space (1959)

"Aliens resurrect dead humans as zombies
and vampires to stop humanity from creating
the Solaranite (a sort of sun-driven bomb)."
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052077/


Truth is stranger than fiction





s

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://rinf.com/alt-news/featured/ukraine-says-450-stolen-military-2014/>

Yury Biryukov, an aide to Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko, said on
January 6th that during the year 2014, up to $450 million was stolen from
Ukraine’s military. This amount happens to be precisely the same maximum
amount of money that the U.S. Government, in legislation that was supported by
more than 98% of U.S. Senators and Representatives and that was signed into
law by U.S. President Barack Obama on December 18th, will donate to Ukraine’s
military for this year, 2015. Biryukov, who spoke on Ukraine’s Channel 5 TV
(which had formerly been owned by Poroshenko), said that the amount stolen in
2014 constituted “about 20 to 25 percent” of Ukraine’s military budget for
2014, which was a total of $1.8 billion. During 2015, that budget is scheduled
to be $3.2 billion (in constant dollars), or a 78% increase, in order for the
Government to prosecute its war against the Donbass region, where the
residents had voted 90% for President Viktor Yanukovych, whom the Obama
Administration overthrew in February 2014 in a coup that was disguised as
being the result of popular demonstrations for democracy but were actually
anti-corruption demonstrations — and corruption now is even higher than it was
under President Yanukovych. Indeed, Biryakov admitted that in the Ministry of
Defense there is now “total corruption.”

However, this phrase might also be applied to the entire Government; ..

...

From what people from the Ukraine write in social networks and blogs it looks
like after the coup there is noticeably more corruption and mismanagement than
it was before.

[Byker]

"Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message news:m8vg25$cmv$1...@os.motzarella.org...
>
> <http://rinf.com/alt-news/featured/ukraine-says-450-stolen-military-2014/>

>
> However, this phrase might also be applied to the entire Government; ..

Meanwhile, the cash is being laundered through British banks:
http://tinyurl.com/lfoy8g5

[jack595]

In article <m8vg25$cmv$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...

But isn't this just a duplicate of what has been going on in Russia? Try writing
smaller paragraphs, this one exudes paranoia.

[jack595]

In article <m8vg25$cmv$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...
>

For example

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/world/seizing-assets-in-crimea-from-shipyard-to-film-studio.html

[dottor Piergiorgio M. d' Errico]

Il 12/01/2015 04:45, Oleg Smirnov ha scritto:
> <http://rinf.com/alt-news/featured/ukraine-says-450-stolen-military-2014/>
>
> Yury Biryukov, an aide to Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko, said on
> January 6th that during the year 2014, up to $450 million was stolen from
> Ukraine’s military. This amount happens to be precisely the same maximum
> amount of money that the U.S. Government, in legislation that was

<snip>

> under President Yanukovych. Indeed, Biryakov admitted that in the
> Ministry of
> Defense there is now “total corruption.”
>
> However, this phrase might also be applied to the entire Government; ..

shades of south Vietnam....

best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

[jonathan]

Invasion from Russia isn't helping now is it?
Russia doesn't help anyone, it only steals.

But where Russia has yet to invade, like
Poland and the Baltic states, their economies
are doing pretty good, much better than Russia.

And now that the Ruble and oil are crashing, so
are the EU and America economies improving, these
are the start of boom times for the west you know.

Pity it's at the expense of Russia.That $500 billion
Russian nest egg? It's flowing west faster than
Russian gas. Thanks for all the cash!



Jonathan


s

[Oleg Smirnov]

jonathan, <news:UbKdnau65461Jy7J...@giganews.com>
> On 1/11/2015 8:15 PM, Oleg Smirnov wrote:

>> <http://tinyurl.com/pxayt3u>
>>
>> "Crimean residents are almost universally positive
>> toward Russia. At least nine-in-ten have confidence
>> in Putin (93%) and say Russia is playing a positive
>> role in Crimea (92%). .. Overwhelming majorities
>> say the March 16th referendum was free and fair
>> (91%) and that the government in Kyiv ought to
>> recognize the results of the vote (88%)."
>>
>> Not only Pew Global comfirmed that the results of
>> Crimean referendum adequately reflect people moods.
>> German GFK Group, the 'Germany's largest market
>> research institute, and the fourth largest market
>> research organization in the world' polled people in
>> Crimea just before the March voting , and result
>> of their survey was similar (read in Wikipedia).
>>
>> Only a hopelessly dense idiot may think that both
>> of these might publish their results if they saw
>> that the Crimeans are voting / speaking 'under guns'.
>>
>>> I hear some 20% of Russia is made up of various
>>> different ethnic groups, maybe the Tatars, Germans
>>> or Chinese in Russia should start holding
>>> their own referendums too? To join NATO or the EU?
>>>
>>> They have that right according,and the govt has to
>>> respect their decisions to according to Oleg.
>>
>> I understand your wet dreams, but to reproduce the
>> Ukrainian-like mess in Russia at first you should
>> stage an anti-constitutional coup in Moscow.
>
> Russia doesn't have a constitution. It has a
> piece of paper Putin wipes his ass with.
> And you know it!
>
> Putin merely changed the constitution with a
> swipe of his pen when he wanted to stay past
> his term limits. Which he did again with Russian
> civil rights after Flight 17 was shot down by
> banning almost any kind of protests.
>
> And the law banning transvestites and other
> sexual deviants from driving cars, how do
> you feel about that?

I feel you are yourself a sexual deviant, Jonthy,
and the target of your perverted sexual obsession
is Russia.

You should direct your irate complaints about the
transvestites to WHO (World Health Organization),
because Russia's lawmakers simply have used [most
of] their 'Mental and behavioural disorders' (see
Chapter 5 in ICD-10).

> What's it like to live in a Dark Age society?
> Oh that's right, you're going to find out
> next year~

Your example has led me to the idea that, perhaps,
'perverse obsession with Russia' should had been
included in ICD as a sort of mental disorder too.

[jonathan]

On 1/7/2015 9:10 AM, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> <http://www.chron.com/news/world/article/France-Europe-hurting-from-Russia-sanctions-5998776.php>
>
> "Emmanuel Macron told The Associated Press that Europe has a "collective
> responsibility" to maintain pressure on Russia .."

>
> So the US government twists arms of its vassals demanding from them to take
> part in a disgusting collective lie / fraud - that is not a 'free
> democratic
> world', but such mores are more typical for criminal communities.
>
> Shame to Europe.
>

>> <https://consortiumnews.com/2015/01/06/nyt-still-pretends-no-coup-in-ukraine/>
>>
>>
>> .. The New York Times keeps insisting that last year’s Ukrainian coup
>> wasn’t
>> a coup and anyone who thinks so lives inside “the Russian propaganda
>> bubble.” But a slanted Times “investigation” shows that the newspaper
>> remains lost inside the U.S. government’s “propaganda bubble,” writes
>> Robert
>> Parry. ..
>>
>> The reality of what happened in Ukraine was never hard to figure out.
>> George
>> Friedman, the founder of the global intelligence firm Stratfor, called
>> the
>> overthrow of Yanukovych “the most blatant coup in history.” It’s just
>> that
>> the major U.S. news organizations were either complicit in the events or
>> incompetent in describing them to the American people. ..
>


The Big Lie again?

Coup....when tanks and troops march up to govt building
one day and take over (E Ukraine - Crimea)

Revolution....when throngs of protesters spend months trying
to take govt building with nothing more than garbage can lids
tied to their waists (Kiev)


Anti-Protest Laws in Ukraine (dictatorship laws)
Passed one month...before Kiev fell, justifying
a revolution in any nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-protest_laws_in_Ukraine



s

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://nationalinterest.org/feature/misreporting-the-news-12010>

Misreporting the News / James Carden / January 12, 2015
The New York Times has produced some very interesting pieces when it comes to
the crisis in Ukraine.

The catastrophe engulfing eastern Ukraine and the immense scale of collateral
damage to the Russian economy, as well as the lesser but still significant
impact on Europe, has produced some of 2014’s most tendentious news coverage.
If two reports in the New York Times over the past week are anything to go by,
we can expect more of the same in 2015.

First up is the December 30th Times report “How Putin Forged a Pipeline Deal
That Derailed.” Its message is simple: The cancellation of the South Stream
pipeline project is a strategic defeat for the Russian president, brought on
by his revanchist designs on Ukraine. Reading more like a sinister conspiracy
theory than a piece of news analysis, the report asserts that the pipeline
project was the key to one of Putin’s goals—that of “further entrenching
Russian influence in fragile former Soviet satellite states as part of a
broader effort to undermine European unity.” The report purports to show the
“hidden hand” of the Kremlin in Bulgarian politics. But for his “fundamental
miscalculation” in Crimea, South Stream would have become a reality, thereby
prolonging Europe’s dependence on Russian energy.

It’s not a particularly novel thesis. But what makes the report notable is
that it is at odds with reality; readers are treated to an in-depth survey of
Mr. Putin’s machinations on the continent, his Kremlin’s funding of far-right
political parties and anti-fracking campaigns, all with an eye towards
expanding and securing Russia’s ostensible energy monopoly in Europe. Towards
the end of the piece, almost as an aide, readers are informed that a
delegation led by John McCain traveled to Sofia in June. Days later, Bulgaria
pulled the plug on South Stream. Yet, rather than focus on, say, that fact
that we are witnessing the 21st century’s iteration of the Great Game between
the United States and Russia in Eastern Europe, theTimes weaves a dark tale of
Russia in Bulgaria and beyond.

The article does its best to minimize the very legitimate reason other
European countries besides Bulgaria were in favor of South Stream. Readers are
told that “In the winter of 2009, Bulgarians were left shivering for two weeks
when Russia shut off the gas to teach Ukraine a lesson.” Not a word of
historical context; no mention of the fact that, as the International
Institute for Strategic Studies’ Pierre Noel has written, “The European
gas-supply crises of 2006 and 2009 were triggered by Ukraine making good on
its implicit threat to steal Europe-bound gas from transit pipelines if Russia
demanded that Kiev pay the market price in the long term.”

This piece of reportage was followed a week later by a page-one, above the
fold story—headlined, “Ukraine Leader Was Defeated Even Before He was
Ousted” — that attempted to minimize the West’s role in the overthrow of
Viktor
Yanukovych, the democratically elected president of Ukraine in February, who,
yes, like his predecessors proved to be incompetent and corrupt. We are
informed that while “Russia has attributed Mr. Yanukovych’s ouster to what it
portrays as a violent, ‘neo-fascist’ coup supported and even choreographed by
the West and dressed up as a popular uprising…. Few outside the Russian
propaganda bubble ever seriously entertained the Kremlin’s line.” Then the
report goes on to, among other things, highlight the fantastically violent
nature of the February uprising, noting that “1,200 weapons, mostly pistols
and Kalashnikov rifles, were seized in raids on five district police stations
and the headquarters of the Interior Ministry’s western command.” Readers are
subsequently informed that hundreds of these weapons made their way to Kiev.

The main point of the article is this: the democratically elected president of
Ukraine “was not so much overthrown as cast adrift by his own allies,” thereby
absolving Western governments of any role or responsibility they have (as they
surely do) in the unfolding crisis, which—at the time of this writing—has
claimed the lives of nearly 5,000 people.

Readers will have to go elsewhere if they are looking for an account that
includes German chancellor Angela Merkel’s summary rejection of Mr. Putin’s
proposed tripartite deal to head off the crisis in November 2013. They will
search in vain for any mention of the behind-the-scenes maneuvering of
American diplomats like Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and U.S.
Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt to gain the Ukrainian government as their
ally, the increasingly sanguinary war leader Arseniy Yatsenyuk. Maneuvering
may be actually too mild a word. What Europe and Washington resorted to was
outright intimidation in the form of financial threats.

Can anyone imagine, for an instant, that the Times would publish a purported
piece of news analysis of, say, the last hours of the Allende and Mossadegh
regimes, without so much as a mention of possible CIA involvement? Of course
not.

All in all, this account of the events leading up to the coup of February
21-22 leaves the reader with the overwhelming impression that for the Times,
the violent overthrow of democratically elected governments is fine — as long
as they are against regimes that it doesn’t particularly like.

James Carden is a Contributing Editor for The National Interest.

[jack595]

In article <m913fa$3ts$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...

Have you read this one?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/magazine/a-russian-soldier-vanishes-in-ukraine.html?

[jack595]

In article <m8vg25$cmv$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...
>

Here, the Kyiv Post is printing from the New York Times

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/new-york-times-the-search-for-petr-khokhlov-376874.html

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://etfdailynews.com/2015/01/12/the-road-to-war-with-russia-were-not-only-on-it-weve-already-arrived/>

Before anyone jumps in to say “Why are you defending Putin? He’s a bad man”,
let me just say that I have been closely analyzing each move by Russia and the
West since then President of Ukraine Yanukovych declined to sign the European
Association Agreement back in November of 2013.

Based on the preponderance of evidence, its’ clear to me that the West/US
deserve the lion’s share of the blame for the conflict that now rages with
Ukraine and between Russia and the western world.

It was the West that supported the unsavory assortment of thugs, neo-Nazis,
and ultra-nationalists that seized power in a coup from the
democratically-elected Yanukovych. We can argue all we want about whether he
was a good boy or not, but that’s irrelevant and plays into the hands of those
at the US State Department who would like to deflect attention away from the
very non-democratic events (shaped behind the scenes by our influence) that
led to his overthrow. ..

In my view, if Yanukovych had not been violently deposed, Ukraine would be
peaceful right now, Russia would not have had to intervene, and there would be
no civil war in Ukraine and far reduced tensions between the West and Russia.


.. For propaganda to work well, there needs to be tight coordination between
the State and the press. The role of the press is to first publish the
propaganda, and second, to neglect to look into it or report on anything that
might call it into question. Sins of omission and commission are both
required. ..
At any rate, here’s a first-rate piece of unadulterated propaganda courtesy of
Bloomberg. Note that it was printed on Dec 31, one of several very quiet news
days where little debate is likely to happen:
Inside Obama’s Secret Outreach to Russia
Dec 31, 2014
President Barack Obama’s administration has been working behind the scenes
for months to forge a new working relationship with Russia, despite the
fact that Russian President Vladimir Putin has shown little interest ..
The tenor of this piece is set. It’s the US that is trying to be reasonable,
but Russia has shown little interest in repairing relations. ..


Think of this from Russia’s perspective. They know perfectly well all of the
things the Honorable Ron Paul speaks of are true. There was an illegal coup
followed by legal elections. The US recognizes the former as legitimate but
the latter as illegal, and then speaks loudly about the importance of
spreading democracy. ..

This could just as easily have been labeled the “Do As We Say, Not As We Do”
Act. For some reason, the Russians are not too impressed with that approach.
..

The really bizarre part of this story is that I cannot yet find any credible
analysis or commentary explaining exactly what the US’s compelling interests
are in Ukraine, nor what the end goal might be. ..

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://www.interpretermag.com/moscow-lawyer-and-moscow-red-cross-chairman-says-wests-concerns-about-humanitarian-convoys-are-legitimate/>

The sending of Russian "humanitarian convoys" to Ukraine is a
violation of international humanitarian law, and the "Putin convoys"
themselves most likely brought weapons into rebel-controlled Donbass,
said Igor Trunov, the head of the Moscow City Department of the
Russian Red Cross. ..

It's also important to understand how it came about that Trunov
could make such a statement -- he is already a prominent Russian
public figure who holds a number of civic positions and is famous for
representing the survivors of terrorist attacks, disasters, and plane
crashes in Russia.

<http://rapsinews.com/judicial_news/20150114/272945043.html>

The Moscow branch of the Russian Red Cross has filed defamation suit
with a Moscow court against 18 Ukrainian and US media outlets for
defamation seeking 170 million rubles (about $2.6 million) in damages,
chief of the Moscow branch of the Russian Red Cross panel Igor Trunov
told RAPSI on Wednesday.

Trunov slammed the US and Ukrainian mass media coverage of the
situation in Ukraine's Donbass region. Notably, the information about
humanitarian aid provided by the Red Cross to residents of Luhask was
distorted, according to Trunov. "An information war is waged against
Russia, and we turned to a court," Trunov said.

[jack595]

In article <m9a9ic$prj$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...

He reads like one more lawyer looking for a case, either for his bankroll or
some political gain.

[Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.]

Oleg Smirnov wrote:
>>
>> In my view, if Yanukovych had not been violently deposed,
>> Ukraine would be peaceful right now, Russia would not
>> have had to intervene, and there would be no civil war in
>> Ukraine and far reduced tensions between the West and
>> Russia.

Agreed...they could have had the planned democratic election.
;-)

[Oleg Smirnov]

Some fanny stuff.

<http://tinyurl.com/p94rufo> NewYork Observer

The New Ukraine Is Run by Rogues, Sexpots, Warlords, Lunatics and Oligarchs ..

[jack595]

In article <m9hfkr$ebr$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...

>
>Some fanny stuff.
>
><http://tinyurl.com/p94rufo> NewYork Observer
>
>The New Ukraine Is Run by Rogues, Sexpots, Warlords, Lunatics and Oligarchs ..
>

Just like Russia, but without the obvious interference in its neighbors'
affairs.

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/01/the-new-york-times-sinks-to-a-new-journalistic-low-in-its-reporting-on-ukraine/>

The New York Times Sinks to a New Journalistic Low in its Reporting on Ukraine
by Walter C. Uhler / January 19th, 2015

On 8 January 2015, Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk demonstrated
once again that he is either a liar or an ignoramus (inspired by Russophobia)
when he told a German TV channel, “I will not allow the Russians to march
across Ukraine and Germany, as they did in WWII.” ..

But, if Yatsenyuk is either a Russophobic ignoramus or liar who spreads filthy
propaganda about Russians and Russian history to people who have no sense of
history, what are we to call the editors, columnists and reporters at the New
York Times, who do the very same thing?

The Times commenced its latest propaganda campaign against Russia on 28
November 2013, when it published an overwrought editorial titled, “Ukraine
Backs Down.” Clearly, some Russophobe’s head must have exploded. Who, but an
outraged Russophobe, would conclude that President Vladimir Putin’s
“strong-arm tactics” against Ukraine would cost Russia its chance “to find its
place in the democratic and civilized world.”

“Civilized World?” Seriously? “According to data recently released by the
Organization for Co-operation and Development (OECD),” the Russians are the
most educated people in the world. ..

More to the point, just four days before Mr. Yatsenyuk issued his deceitful or
ignorant Russophobic rant, the Times reached a new Russophobic low when it
published propaganda designed to whitewash evidence that President Yanukovych
was overthrown in a violent and illegal coup. ..

<.. more about the coup and investigation details ..>

...

Actually, the Russians don't 'seek for place in the democratic and civilized
world' since they do not consider the Western world an example for imitation,
and the torrent of lies the Western politicians and mainstream media have
dumped about the Ukraine's coup makes the 'democratic world' look even more
disgusting from the Russian perspective.

The mediacracy isn't a democracy, you know.

[jack595]

In article <m9kj7d$uk6$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...

It would appear that all those educated people in Russia are leaving

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/24/under-putin-russia-seeing-an-exodus-of-the-most-educated-most-active-most-entrepreneurial-people/

[Oleg Smirnov]

jack595, <news:m9kpi...@drn.newsguy.com>

> In article <m9kj7d$uk6$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov

> It would appear that all those educated people in Russia
> are leaving
>
> http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/24/under-putin-russia-seeing-an-exodus-of-the-most-educated-most-active-most-entrepreneurial-people/

I already discussed this mythology.

<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/uk.politics.misc/LBeVsT68prY/HZLFZDOD6RkJ>

The "exodus of ‘the most educated, most active, most entrepreneurial people’"
is actually a myth. In reality the main part of mass migration from Russia is
represented by people from North Caucasus. They are not 'most educated', they
are mostly rural people of Muslim background attracted by prospect to receive
welfare / refugee status etc in the West - mostly in Germany, Sweden, Austria,
Norway - in an alleviated way, since authorities of these countries are
willing to give them such support under color of [former] Chechen conflict.

<http://www.dw.de/caucasus-refugees-need-a-sense-of-orientation-in-berlin/a-18197202>

<http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/151100,Poland-struggling-with-Chechen-migration>

[Mr. B1ack]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 09:38:16 -0000, "Oleg Smirnov" <ve...@gde.ru>
wrote:

But it serves the US/EU to make it seem as if the intellectual
cream of the crop are evacuating Russia in droves. Of course
it's hard to DOCUMENT just who ARE immigrating and why ...
which makes the propaganda hold up pretty well.

The journal SCIENCE recently had an article saying how many
college professors had evacuated eastern Ukraine. However
this is understandable, it's a de-facto war zone. Also "the
intellectuals" tend to be the first singled-out for persecution
no matter which zealots are in charge at the moment for
fear they might have something intelligent to say and enough
reputation to be believed.

Once eastern Ukraine gets sorted out - one way or the other -
expect many of these professors to return.

[Byker]

"Mr. B1ack" wrote in message

news:jrktbatv61uqpbt56...@4ax.com...

>
> But it serves the US/EU to make it seem as if the intellectual cream of
> the crop are evacuating Russia in droves. Of course it's hard to DOCUMENT
> just who ARE immigrating and why ... which makes the propaganda hold up
> pretty well.

I wonder why Dagestan has trouble keeping its best and brightest?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5f5_1369123067
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAu9EPdJquM

Bandits blast wine-vodka shop:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oy4jJAfweE

[Oleg Smirnov]

Byker, <news:_eednZB4YaFufyPJ...@earthlink.com>

> "Mr. B1ack" wrote in message

>> But it serves the US/EU to make it seem as if the
>> intellectual cream of the crop are evacuating Russia in
>> droves. Of course it's hard to DOCUMENT just who ARE
>> immigrating and why ... which makes the propaganda hold
>> up pretty well.
>
> I wonder why Dagestan has trouble keeping its best and
> brightest?
>
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5f5_1369123067
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAu9EPdJquM
>
> Bandits blast wine-vodka shop:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oy4jJAfweE

Radical Salafis + criminal groups + clannishness.

Your wonder still has nothing to do with 'exodus of the most educated'.

[Oleg Smirnov]

Mr. B1ack, <news:jrktbatv61uqpbt56...@4ax.com>

> On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 09:38:16 -0000, "Oleg Smirnov" <ve...@gde.ru> wrote:

>> The "exodus of 'the most educated, most active, most
>> entrepreneurial people'" is actually a myth. In reality
>> the main part of mass migration from Russia is
>> represented by people from North Caucasus. They are not
>> 'most educated', they are mostly rural people of Muslim
>> background attracted by prospect to receive welfare /
>> refugee status etc in the West - mostly in Germany,
>> Sweden, Austria, Norway - in an alleviated way, since
>> authorities of these countries are willing to give them
>> such support under color of [former] Chechen conflict.
>>
>> <http://www.dw.de/caucasus-refugees-need-a-sense-of-orientation-in-berlin/a-18197202>
>>
>> <http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/151100,Poland-struggling-with-Chechen-migration>
>
>
> But it serves the US/EU to make it seem as if the
> intellectual cream of the crop are evacuating Russia in
> droves. Of course it's hard to DOCUMENT just who ARE
> immigrating and why ... which makes the propaganda hold
> up pretty well.

There's a habitual legend, especially popular among
Western 'progressives' (sort of The Guardian's writers),
that 'well-educated urbanities' in Russia en masse hate
'the regime' and dream about emigration. In reality, the
well-educated, of course, place more high demands on and
have more claims to authorities, but that's still quite
far from 'hatred of the regime'. The most ardent 'regime
haters' constitute a small and quite specific stratum of
middle-educated urban intelligentsia.

'Exodus' of intellectuals is also a rather vague notion
nowadays. Some professionals can find a lucrative job in
the West, but that does not necessary mean they 'leave
forever'. Many retain citizenship, and are periodically
here and there.

> The journal SCIENCE recently had an article saying how
> many college professors had evacuated eastern Ukraine.
> However this is understandable, it's a de-facto war
> zone. Also "the intellectuals" tend to be the first
> singled-out for persecution no matter which zealots are
> in charge at the moment for fear they might have
> something intelligent to say and enough reputation to
> be believed.
>
> Once eastern Ukraine gets sorted out - one way or the
> other - expect many of these professors to return.

Yes, that's true.

[Mr. B1ack]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:21:27 -0600, "Byker" <byker@do~rag.net> wrote:

>"Mr. B1ack" wrote in message
>news:jrktbatv61uqpbt56...@4ax.com...
>>
>> But it serves the US/EU to make it seem as if the intellectual cream of
>> the crop are evacuating Russia in droves. Of course it's hard to DOCUMENT
>> just who ARE immigrating and why ... which makes the propaganda hold up
>> pretty well.
>
>I wonder why Dagestan has trouble keeping its best and brightest?

By every report, Dagestan sucks diseased donkey dicks.

As a rule of thumb, if there's a "-stan" in the name it's not
anyplace you want to live.

>http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5f5_1369123067
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAu9EPdJquM
>
>Bandits blast wine-vodka shop:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oy4jJAfweE

But in the bigger cities in Russia proper, not so bad.
Indeed better than, say, Detroit.

The oil price war is gonna hurt 'em a bit of course, but
then Russians are used to such trials. It's been claimed
that Russians aren't happy unless they're miserable :-)

[Mr. B1ack]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 00:17:19 -0000, "Oleg Smirnov" <ve...@gde.ru>

What is it exactly that they think would be "better" - and
is that possible in Russia ?

Most Americans hate their 'leaders' and the govt they
have created. Many talk about "fixing" things, a retreat
to the alleged 'Good Old Days' or to a bright and
beautiful socialist/Marxist sort of future utopia. But
they have nowhere "better" to go in the world, the
utopias they envision exist nowhere. And - here's
the funny part - when elections come around almost
everybody RE-elects the same corrupt narcissistic
incompetent SOBs, over and over. For all their
complaining, they change NOTHING.

No doubt there are many Russians with the same sorts
of feelings - "perfection" surely lies just beyond what
they've got now - but in truth "perfection" isn't there and
they will stick with the status-quo. Putin is in charge
until he isn't ... and then some new guy, not so much
different (maybe much worse) will take over.

>'Exodus' of intellectuals is also a rather vague notion
>nowadays. Some professionals can find a lucrative job in
>the West, but that does not necessary mean they 'leave
>forever'. Many retain citizenship, and are periodically
>here and there.

It's a much more mobile and opportunistic culture
nowadays. In 1915 the goal was to find some nearby
place of employment and work there until you had
to be carried out on a stretcher - the 'career' thing.
These days, seems like nobody holds a job for more
than a few years (and always wonder why they're
stuck with 'starter' wages). Moving across the
country or across the world for the next job is
now perfectly normal behavior.

Those professionals/intellectuals/educators who
come to the EU or USA aren't likely to stay forever.
Instead they'll go home and try to leverage what
they learned abroad into a better life in their home
country. This has become VERY common with
Chinese and 'arabs' and while I haven't seen any
stats on Russians it's sure to be much the same
story.

But the propaganda mill prefers a different story ...

>> The journal SCIENCE recently had an article saying how
>> many college professors had evacuated eastern Ukraine.
>> However this is understandable, it's a de-facto war
>> zone. Also "the intellectuals" tend to be the first
>> singled-out for persecution no matter which zealots are
>> in charge at the moment for fear they might have
>> something intelligent to say and enough reputation to
>> be believed.
>>
>> Once eastern Ukraine gets sorted out - one way or the
>> other - expect many of these professors to return.
>
>Yes, that's true.

The article also noted that a sub-set of professors have
resolved to STAY ... likely in part because they will find
themselves at the top of the ladder when calm - and
many of their old friends - return.

[Byker]

"Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message news:m9moui$5sv$1...@os.motzarella.org...

>
> Radical Salafis + criminal groups + clannishness.

When Dearborn, Michigan, becomes a no-go zone, we could use this kind of
Спецоперация ("Special Action"):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcNXR09C8UY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vSSW1UjGB0

LUV this training video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DVMYMYq6Wg

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://www.eurasiareview.com/22012015-countering-nato-propaganda-russia-oped/>

It is true that the Cold War, or as it is now called, “Cold War 1.0,” formally
ended on Nov. 21, 1990 with the signing of the Charter of Paris for a New
Europe. But unfortunately that conflict never truly ended, thanks to the
efforts of the countries at NATO’s helm. An increasing number of Russian and
foreign experts share this view, although Washington and the capitals of NATO’s
leading countries claim otherwise.

Some Western experts have dubbed this new Cold War – “New Cold War” or “Cold
War 2.0.”

Following is a list of what I consider to be the most important features of
this continued Cold War, or of the new Cold War that began after 1989: the US’
withdrawal from the ABM Treaty and their deployment of a global system for
intercepting ballistic and cruise missiles; the failure of all the NATO
signatories to the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe to ratify it;
and the heavy reliance on nuclear forces that is still evident in the basic
doctrines of the US and NATO, given Washington’s unaltered doctrine of
“offensive nuclear deterrence” and “extended nuclear deterrence,” which
envisions a first nuclear strike against some states, including the Russian
Federation, as well as the “nuclear sharing arrangements” that exist between
the United States and many other members of that transatlantic alliance. To
this list should be added the decades-long refusal of NATO’s leading nations
to back a proposal to prevent the weaponization of space, as well as the US
refusal to ratify the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty.

There are five key features of the “Cold War 2.0” being waged by the current
US administration that were present during “Cold War 1.0,” but to a lesser
extent:
1) the arms-control process has ground to a halt (previously seven agreements
had been signed just focusing on limiting and reducing nuclear-weapons
stockpiles);
2) NATO’s leading nations have stepped up their military activity on the
Russian border in times, a fact that NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg
has admitted in his recent public statements;
3) NATO has intensified its hostile, bellicose rhetoric against Russia and has
even made threats against her;
4) financial and economic sanctions against Russia were proposed and levied
without sufficient cause, and they are of a greater magnitude than anything
observed in the last century; and
5) direct attempts have been made to overthrow the existing leaders of the
nations of the Commonwealth of Independent States, sometimes through covert
CIA operations.

And as for the “the presence of massive standing armies in Europe,” the NATO
member states have stationed masses of troops there, both in the 20th century
and still today, far outnumbering the conventional armed forces in Russia or
the CSTO. Shortly before he retired, US Admiral James Stavridis claimed that
NATO collectively possesses 24,000 combat aircraft and 800 ocean-going ships.
This cannot be compared to either Russia’s military capabilities or to the
Collective Security Treaty Organization.

Russia is not engaged in “aggressive actions” in Ukraine.

If you are referring to Crimea – that was a peaceful reunification of the
peninsula with Russia, in keeping with any nation’s right to
self-determination, and it was conducted on the basis of a peaceful and
democratic referendum.

Crimea is an ancient Russian land. Prince Vladimir was baptized there in 988,
and he went on to baptize the people of Rus in Kiev.

Crimea was conquered by Russia over the course of 30 sea and land wars against
the Ottoman Empire.

Crimea became an official part of the Russian Empire in 1783.

Crimea was not ceded to Ukraine in 1954. To view the issue from an
international legal perspective: the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the
USSR did not have the authority to decide this question. In addition, they had
no quorum. Sevastopol, a city under federal jurisdiction, was never ceded to
Ukraine.

And at the meeting in Belavezha Forest in 1991, Ukraine’s president Leonid
Kravchuk promised Russia’s Boris Yeltsin that Crimea would be returned.

In 1992 the Russian parliament declared Khrushchev’s 1954 act to be invalid.

If you are referring to Russian “aggression” in Crimea in 2014 – there was
nothing of the sort. Crimea’s peaceful reunification with her ancestral
homeland does not meet the definition of the term “aggression,” as interpreted
by the UN General Assembly Resolution of Dec. 14, 1974. “Aggression” cannot
occur when not a single shot is fired and there are no dead or wounded – and
this is precisely how that reunification was carried out, during which Crimea
once again sailed into her “home harbor.” An “aggressor” does not usually
return captured weapons and military equipment to the alleged “victim” of his
“aggression”. Of the two million inhabitants of the Republic of Crimea, only a
few thousand abandoned the land “seized by the aggressor.” The others, as we
know, happily welcomed the long-awaited reunification with their homeland.
During the referendum, more than 97% of voters cast their ballots in favor of
rejoining Russia.

If you are referring to the Donbass, none of the representatives of the OSCE,
nor any other human-rights organizations have found any “Russian aggressors”
there. About one million Ukrainian citizens have already decamped for Russia
in order to escape the rampant genocide unleashed by the current leaders of
Ukraine. Never before in the history of the world have any people seeking
refuge from an “aggressor” escaped by fleeing to that aggressor’s country.

The West still does not understand or want to understand one indisputable
fact: the people of the Donbass do not want to live as part of Ukraine – Kiev
has shed too much blood and destroyed too many civilian lives.

That cannot be forgotten. Ever.

Yes, under the influence of misleading Western propaganda, in addition to
wanting to support the ultranationalist regime in Ukraine that came to power
as a result of an illegal, unconstitutional, and bloody coup, many states
rushed to support Resolution 68/262 at the UN General Assembly in 2014. But
many countries (almost half) either abstained or voted against the resolution.

I think more would have voted against such a resolution or abstained, if the
leaders of those countries had been able to foresee what this “support” has
cost thus far: about 5,000 civilians in the Donbass have been killed and over
10,000 wounded, plus 65% of the homes in the region have been destroyed by
Ukrainian regular troops using heavy weapons, white phosphorus, cluster bombs,
and Tochka-U ballistic missile systems with 500 kg. warheads. ..

The Ukrainian armed forces’ brutal combat operations in the Donbass against
the civilian population meets the definition of “aggression” and “war of
aggression” as given in the UN General Assembly Resolution of 1974, and found
in articles 1-3 and 5, respectively, of that decree. The mass murders,
including serial killings and executions of civilians by the Ukrainian armed
forces without benefit of a court or trial, are a flagrant violation of one of
the most fundamental of human rights – the right to life.

Recently adopted documents in regard to Ukraine: the US House of
Representatives anti-RussianH.Res. 758 and H.R. 5859 – the Ukraine Freedom
Support Act – signed by Barack Obama will help escalate Ukraine’s internal
conflict, transforming it into a permanent state of affairs. These legal acts
are in conflict with the agreements on Ukraine reached in 2014 in Minsk,
Geneva, Berlin, and Kiev.

Since the creation of the North Atlantic alliance, neither the USSR nor Russia
has ever had a “privileged relationship with NATO.” The creation of the
NATO-Russia Council and the signing of the NATO-Russia Founding Act does not
signify that they automatically have such a relationship, when the alliance’s
eloquent statements and pronouncements continue to be at odds with NATO’s real
actions in the world and with the way the alliance has behaved toward Russia
since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Finland is one example of a state that is not a formal member of the
transatlantic alliance, but which has a “privileged partnership” with NATO,
and that country long ago adopted the military and organizational standards of
this, the largest Western bloc.

Unfortunately, 25 years after the adoption of the Paris Charter, the United
States and the 27 other NATO members have not yet managed to “promote unity in
Europe.” Looking back, we can confidently say that the North Atlantic alliance
made no real effort to accomplish this during those years.

From a military/political point of view, the unjustifiable increase in Europe
of the military capabilities of NATO and of the US (based on no genuine need)
is not conducive to the strengthening of security in this densely populated
region. On the contrary, these actions lead to suspicion, weakened trust
between the states located here, and a return to an entirely new Cold War,
which the current US military/political leadership has launched with the full
consent of many European states. These military preparations violate many
international agreements that were signed shortly after the official end of
Cold War 1.0 in November 1990.

[jack595]

In article <m9tivb$upu$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...

We have to correct the collection of lies which you seem to be able to spew for
line after line. Perhaps some someone else will read what we write and see that
you lack the truth which you so random dismember.

By the way, NATO and the US military are starting to realize that the threat of
renewed Russian aggression is the problem and that it needs some strengthening
of what have been relaxed perceptions of the need for stronger military. Give
your selves credit, you made any noise about a threat on your own. The Cold War
II wind blows from Russia, not from the rest of the world.

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=42557>

Obama was misadvised to speak so boastfully and contemptuously of Mr Putin and
Russia.

The Cold War ended 25 years ago in 1991, yet the desire in certain quarters to
weaken Russia has never gone away. I still feel that to write anything in
defence of Putin’s Russia is aiding and abetting the enemy. But this is
nonsense. Russia now poses no ideological or strategic threat to the West. It
is just another country, albeit a very large and nuclear-armed one, trying to
make its own way in an unfriendly world.

To its west and south-west, Russia faces unrelenting hostility and suspicion
from the governments of Poland and of former Soviet member republics Georgia,
Ukraine, and the Baltic states. By contrast, relations with Finland,
Byelorussia, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, the
Central Asian post-Soviet states, Mongolia and China are quite normal.

The shaky Ukrainian successor state has lost Russian-populated Crimea to
Russia, for good reasons and almost certainly irretrievably. A largish part of
the Russian-speaking formerly rich industrial eastern Ukraine, the famous
Donbass region, is controlled by rebel forces demanding human rights and
autonomy within a looser federal Ukraine, or political separation from Ukraine
and integration into Russia. ..

Ordinary Russians now feel the same kind of rage as they see television
footage of Kiev’s army shelling helpless civilians in cities like Donetsk –
with NATO support – as Kiev attempts to retake the rebel-controlled Eastern
Ukraine region. Kiev is shelling its own claimed citizens. ..

Thoughtful political and opinion leaders are resisting the US-NATO’s
demonising and bullying Russia. These include Angela Merkel, Francois
Hollande, former Soviet President Gorbachev, former Czech President Vaclav
Klaus, Henry Kissinger, scholar John Mearsheimer, as well as commentators such
as Tom Switzer in Australia.

Yet the Anglosphere’s media and political rhetoric continue to clamour to
demonise and insult Putin and his nation. ..
And so the demonisation of Russia continues, strongly kicked along by Obama. I
don’t know where it will end. I will continue to argue that Russia should be
treated with civility and respect as a normal country – and former
indispensable World War II ally – and that Kiev’s irresponsible provocations -
supported by goodness knows which elements in NATO – not be further encouraged.

Tony Kevin is a former Australian Ambassador to Poland.

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40537.htm>

John Pilger: 'Real Possibility of Nuclear War' - Ukraine Crisis Could Start
World War 3

Video / Posted December 22, 2014

John Pilger, film-maker and award winning journalist, talks to Going
Underground host Afshin Rattansi about the headline events of the year, from
CIA torture to the Ukraine crisis. He says the whole tenure of the BBC
coverage of the Torture report was ‘does torture work?’ Modern British history
is full of torture, and the British were ‘masters’ at it. ..

With Russia, he says he has never known the truth ‘so inverted’ over any one
issue. He believes we are in the midst of a cold war more dangerous than the
one he grew up with, comparing the raw propaganda of the prior to what we’re
seeing now, with a ‘real possibility’ of a nuclear war. He compares it to
Iraq, because both involved ‘fiction,’ the idea that Russia is attacking the
West. He says oil prices were driven down by agreement between the US and
Saudis, to wreck the Russian economy. He says it was NATO and the US that took
over Ukraine, to the point that Joe Biden’s son is on the board of Ukraine’s
biggest private gas provider. At a meeting in Yalta in September 2013, the
‘takeover of Ukraine was planned’ by prominent politicians and multinationals.
There was a ‘coup stage-managed by the Obama administration,’ and blame
shifted to Russia, who acted purely defensively. He says there is a ‘real
prospect of war’ with a nuclear power and strong conventional military, and
Putin has now started ‘talking red lines’ himself. He describes ‘extraordinary
propaganda’ promoting tension and demonising Russia, which ‘may end up being
self-fulfilling.’ ..

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150122/1017209366.html>

The United States played a destructive role in the Ukrainian crisis, and
destabilized situation in the Middle East, Russian Permanent Representative
to the UN said.
“Over the whole of the Ukrainian crisis the United States has been playing a
destructive role. But actually to call a spade a spade, they've been
provocative.” Vitaly Churkin said during the UN Security Council's meeting
Wednesday. He argued that after every visit of high ranking US officials to
Ukraine, the Kiev government stepped up the confrontational nature of its
activities.
“The current military escalation horrifically coincides with the visit of the
commander of the American forces in Europe,” he said.

“Wherever Washington looks — Iraq, Libya, Syria, Ukraine — everywhere we see
destabilization, blood, crisis. Maybe the US thinks that Europe doesn't have
enough problems and that in the east of the continent there is to be a long
drawn out crisis,” the Russian diplomat stated.
Churkin stressed that US prevented the Security Council from making
contribution to settling the Ukrainian crisis.
“At the beginning of today's meeting we were supposed to have closed
consultations to actually take a look at whether or not the Security Council
could make its contribution to settling the Ukrainian crisis. However the
delegation of the United States waived its hand and, no,” he said.

[george152]

On 24/01/2015 3:15 p.m., Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> <http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40537.htm>
>
> John Pilger: 'Real Possibility of Nuclear War' - Ukraine Crisis Could Start
> World War 3

Oleg quotes Pilger?
One of the few Americans with whom Putin would in accord with

[Oleg Smirnov]

".. a strategy of creating systemic chaos in order to continue dominating .."

Is it really good for the world?

<http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1501/S00091/2015-a-critical-and-turbulent-year-raul-zibechi.htm>

2014 ends with Barack Obama’s decision to re-establish relations with Cuba,
after a half century of the blockade and attacks on the island’s sovereignty.
The joy that this news stirs up must be shaded. The rapprochement is produced
at the moment in which the United States shows marked tendencies towards the
provocation of conflicts and wars, as part of a strategy of creating systemic
chaos in order to continue dominating.

The year that ends was one of the more tense and intense, since the White House
unfurled a group of initiatives that can lead to war between countries that
possess atomic weapons. The most critical case is that of Ukraine. Washington
sketched a State coup on the Russian border, with the intention of converting
Ukraine into a platform for destabilization and, eventually, military
aggression against Russia. The US strategy is oriented to establishing a
military, economic and political circle around Russia, to impede all approach
with the European Union. ..

The chaotic situation through which Syria, Sudan, Iraq and Libya travel is a
clear example that a strategy of chaos has been designed, as various analysts
have been denouncing, as a means for redesigning power relations in its favor.
It continues being a mystery how the powerful Western military forces cannot
abate the Islamic State, increasing suspicions that the terrorist organization
uses the same strategy that the Pentagon impels. ..

It is evident that there is not one United States policy towards Venezuela and
another towards Cuba, or towards Mexico. The objective is the same: to continue
ruling the Caribbean, Central America, Mexico and everything to the north of
South America, the area where the United States does not admit challenges. To
avoid it, all is valid. The war against the popular sectors in Mexico (with the
excuse of drugs) was designed to impede a popular uprising, which was possible
in the first years of the new century. ..

Anyhow, Latin Americans are facing new problems. In recent years the power of
the United States provoked two successful State coups (Honduras and Paraguay),
a high intensity war against a people (Mexico), put in check the governability
of several countries (Venezuela and to a lesser extent Argentina) and now
starts it against the continent’s largest company (the Brazilian Petrobras). It
is certain and everyone must say it: the incompetence of some governments eases
the task for them.

Everything indicates that 2015 will be a difficult year, in which the
tendencies towards war, destabilization and systemic chaos will probably
increase exponentially. ..

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/01/three-minutes-to-midnight/>

Gulag Guantanamo remains open, much now militia-run Libya is in ruins, American
troops are back in Iraq, where over 2,000 bombing raids have been carried out
by American ‘planes. Obama’s Administration still endorses the illegal
overthrow of President al-Assad of Syria, training the mass murdering,
beheading, organ-eating “moderate” opposition, and the much vaunted departure
from Afghanistan, is not a full departure at all.

Ukraine bleeds daily from the US boasted five Billion dollar coup, Russia is
blamed, sanctioned and resultantly feels threatened enough to rearm. The Cold
War had been not only rekindled, the flames are visibly rising. ..

Now, the annual setting of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists Doomsday Clock
(January 22nd) has been re-set – forward two minutes to three minutes to
midnight, the first time since the end of the Cold War ..

[Oleg Smirnov]

<https://consortiumnews.com/2015/01/24/nyt-is-lost-in-its-ukraine-propaganda/>

.. One danger of lying is that you must then incorporate the falsehood into the
longer narrative, somehow making the lies fit. The same is true of propaganda
as the New York Times is learning as it continues to falsify the narrative of
the Ukraine crisis, writes Robert Parry.
By Robert Parry

In late February, a conference is scheduled in New York City to discuss the
risk of nuclear war if computers reach the level of artificial intelligence and
take decisions out of human hands. But there is already the old-fashioned
danger of nuclear war, started by human miscalculation, fed by hubris and
propaganda.

That possible scenario is playing out in Ukraine, where the European Union and
the United States provoked a political crisis on Russia’s border in November
2013, then backed a coup d’etat in February 2014 and have presented a one-sided
account of the ensuing civil war, blaming everything on Russia.

Possibly the worst purveyor of this Cold War-style propaganda has been the New
York Times .. < .. analysis of the propaganda in detail .. >

The key error committed by the EU and compounded by the U.S. was to assume that
a brazen bid to get Ukraine to repudiate its longtime relationship with Russia
and to bring Ukraine into the NATO alliance would not prompt a determined
Russian reaction.

Russia sees the prospect of NATO military forces and their nuclear weapons on
its borders as a grave strategic threat, especially with Kiev in the hands of
rabid right-wing politicians, including neo-Nazis, who regard Russia as a
historic enemy. Confronted with such a danger – especially with thousands of
ethnic Russians inside Ukraine being slaughtered – it was a near certainty that
Russia’s leaders would not succumb meekly to Western sanctions and demands.

Yet, as long as the United States remains in thrall to the propagandistic
narrative that the New York Times and other U.S. mainstream media outlets have
spun, President Barack Obama will almost surely continue to ratchet up the
tensions. To do otherwise would open Obama to accusations of “weakness.” ..

There’s no sign that the New York Times has any regrets about becoming a crude
propaganda organ, but just in case someone is listening inside “the newspaper
of record,” let’s reprise the actual narrative of the Ukraine crisis. It began
not last spring, as the Times would have you believe, but rather in fall 2013
when President Yanukovych was evaluating the cost of an EU association
agreement if it required an economic break with Russia.

This part of the narrative was well explained by Der Spiegel, the German
newsmagazine, even though it has generally taken a harshly anti-Russian line.
But, in a retrospective piece published a year after the crisis began, Der
Spiegel acknowledged that EU and German leaders were guilty of miscalculations
that contributed to the civil war in Ukraine, particularly by
under-appreciating the enormous financial costs to Ukraine if it broke its
historic ties to Russia.

In November 2013, Yanukovych learned from experts at the National Academy of
Sciences of Ukraine that the total cost to the country’s economy from severing
its business connections to Russia would be around $160 billion, 50 times the
$3 billion figure that the EU had estimated, Der Spiegel reported.

The figure stunned Yanukovych, who pleaded for financial help that the EU
couldn’t provide, the magazine said. Western loans would have to come from the
International Monetary Fund, which was demanding painful “reforms” of Ukraine’s
economy, structural changes that would make the hard lives of average
Ukrainians even harder, including raising the price of natural gas by 40
percent and devaluing Ukraine’s currency, the hryvnia, by 25 percent.

With Putin offering a more generous aid package of $15 billion, Yanukovych
backed out of the EU agreement but told the EU’s Eastern Partnership Summit in
Vilnius, Lithuania, on Nov. 28, 2013, that he was willing to continue
negotiating. German Chancellor Angela Merkel responded with “a sentence
dripping with disapproval and cool sarcasm aimed directly at the Ukrainian
president. ‘I feel like I’m at a wedding where the groom has suddenly issued
new, last minute stipulations,” according to Der Spiegel’s chronology of the
crisis.

After the collapse of the EU deal, U.S. neocons went to work on one more
“regime change” – this time in Ukraine – .. By early February 2014, Nuland was
telling U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt “fuck the EU” and discussing
how to “glue this thing” as she handpicked who the new leaders of Ukraine
would be; “Yats is the guy,” she said about Arseniy Yatsenyuk.

As violent disorders at the Maidan grew worse – with well-organized neo-Nazi
militias hurling firebombs at police – the State Department and U.S. news media
blamed Yanukovych. On Feb. 20, when mysterious snipers – apparently firing from
positions controlled by the neo-Nazi Right Sektor – shot to death police
officers and protesters, the situation spun out of control – and the American
press again blamed Yanukovych.

Though Yanukovych signed a Feb. 21 agreement with three European countries
accepting reduced powers and early elections, that was not enough for the
coup-makers. On Feb. 22, a putsch, spearheaded by neo-Nazi militias, forced
Yanukovych and his officials to flee for their lives.

Remarkably, however, when the Times pretended to review this history in a
January 2015 article, the Times ignored the extraordinary evidence of a U.S. -
backed coup .. The Times simply informed its readers that there was no coup.

But the Times’ propaganda on Ukraine is not just wretched journalism, it is
also a dangerous ingredient in what could become a nuclear confrontation, if
Americans come to believe a false narrative and thus go along with more
provocative actions by their political leaders who, in turn, might feel
compelled to act tough because otherwise they’d be attacked as “soft.”

In other words, even without computers seizing control of man’s nuclear
weapons, man himself might blunder into a nuclear Armageddon, driven not by
artificial intelligence but a lack of the human kind.

[jack595]

In article <ma41mm$8qm$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...

For those of you who are not familiar with Robert Perry here is his Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Parry_(journalist)

[jack595]

In article <ma41mm$8qm$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...
>

Here is a test for anyone, what Robert Parry says about KH17.

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/01/19/the-danger-of-an-mh-17-cold-case/

[jack595]

In article <ma41mm$8qm$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...
>

and another, judge his stance, there are more articles in this same vein, try
Robert Parry KH17

https://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/22/the-mystery-of-a-ukrainian-army-defector/

[Oleg Smirnov]

> <http://tinyurl.com/p94rufo> NewYork Observer
>
> The New Ukraine Is Run by Rogues, Sexpots, Warlords, Lunatics and Oligarchs ..

<http://tyzhden.ua/Politics/125517>

Heavy hangover / Who will win the war of all against all in Ukrainian politics
.. The country is rapidly moving to the financial, economic and socio-political
abyss. Argentina's default in the early 2000s and crisis in Greece in the
recent years can only be a pale analogy to what menaces us. .. Public debt was
growing rapidly .. margin of safety has become finally exhausted. .. rising of
unemployment, inflation, reduce of real incomes .. Retrenchment and downsizing,
reducing of social benefits and long-term unpaid leaves will inevitably occur.
.. The decline in living standards is already very significant. But the
majority of average citizens .. destined for further rapid deterioration of
living standards. One can also expect a sharp increase in tax pressure on small
and medium businesses .. new initiatives on taxation of ordinary citizens ..

But there is no hope that the government is ready to take the multi-billion
dollar profits of the oligarchs out of the offshore schemes and make them
subject to taxation. Furthermore, with thier leverage on the opposition and the
coalition political forces, they are trying to keep and expand the existing
preferences, as well as mechanisms of laundering of the budget money through
corruption schemes.
The oligarchs, as usual, sell the goods produced in the Ukraine to their own
offshore companies, at prices below cost. With that, they require new tax and
transport preferences, referring to the apparent false 'unprofitability' of
their enterprises. A total monopoly of the oligarchs in the most profitable
sectors of economy persists. Over and over again a scandalous information
appears about bribes for appointment to certain lucrative government positions,
for which, of course, the candidates will 'pay interest'. Noisy statements of
current government abour tens and hundreds of billions of losses from
Yanukovych's corruption in no way improve the current practice. And even more
so, even with the naked eye one can see that the share of budget money which
'were eaten by a mice,' not only has not decreased but rather increased.

The signs of the total chaos are coming .. The attempts to continue tightening
of belts on the necks of ordinary citizens objectively programm a social
destabilization. Not so much because of the austerity, but because of feeling
of acute injustice in conditions of total corruption. .. The social request
for continuation of the riots will be drastically updated .. However, in the
present circumstances a nationwide protest is unlikely to be organized because
all social parties have become addicted to the oligarchy, or have discredited
and marginalized themselves. In such circumstances, an unorganized protest and
catastrophic chaos become likely. ..

The war of all against all .. Against the background of the socio-economic
instability, a war of all against all is unwound within the ruling class, the
contours of it become visible recently. The main political powers now seem to
hope to successfully maneuver in the brewing chaos, trying as much as possible
to stay afloat and continue looting. ..

...

That is not a Kremlin propaganda, thay are current west-Ukrainian pains.

[Mr. B1ack]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 02:11:28 -0000, "Oleg Smirnov" <ve...@gde.ru>
wrote:

Hey, if it's run by "sexpots" then it can't be ALL bad ! :-)

And business & govt people scheming to rob the poor ...
since when HASN'T that been the case ? That's just "normal".

But I kind of get your gist ... the fine 'revolutionaries' the EU
backed for the coup are mostly incompetent, cannot actually
run a country. Their only skills revolve around their ability to
stuff their own pockets as quickly as possible before the
whole disaster implodes around them.

This is pretty much what we saw in the preceding EU-backed
coup - Libya. Now the whole place is in total chaos. The new
'government' lasted about six months before it broke into a
dozen warring factions. Hate to say it, but they were better
off with Daffy Qadaffi.

West Ukraine is at considerable risk for the same ignoble
end. I don't think the EU is in any position to be of much
help either ... neither their economy of politics are going
very well and just in the last couple of weeks we saw
the Swiss disconnect their currency from the Euro and
now Greece has abandoned the whole idea of a sensible
economy ... and will shortly be demanding that Germany
pour more 'free money' onto their problem. Ukraine is
just gonna get lost in all that clutter, left to rot.

[Oleg Smirnov]

Mr. B1ack, <news:v8vdcaprqcd8d6bu1...@4ax.com>

The EUrocrates seem to be under delusion that 'if not Russia
then there would be no troubles with the Ukraine'. That's is
sort of idiocy. It ignores the internal contradictions within
the Ukraine as well as the simple fact that Russia could not
just get up and go far away from the Ukrainian border.

The set of figures that have come to power in the Ukraine after
the February coup is a mix of adventurers, slickers and nazis.
The Western public just had not heard their names and didn't
know their reputation before the mess. Now they are interested
to play the 'Russian invasion' card as much as possible in order
to obtain the Western money under this color. On the other
hand, Kremlin can not betray Donbas, it would cause a fierce
public outrage in Russia. The Kremlin line is to urge Kiev to
substantive negotiations with Donbas, and here is the problem.

The very core problem is that from the very beginning the coup
'winners' in Kiev, the top Western officials, the mass media
in the West, have taken a false legend, presenting it as a
popular all-Ukrainian uprising against the pro-Kremlin tyrant.
So there cannot be any anti-coup protests from the grassroots,
but only 'diversionists from Russia'. They rejected to recognize
the fact that there was many people in the Ukraine that didn't
like the coup. So if Kiev enters into negotiations, then they
thus recognize their initial lies. But there's no other way.

[Mr. B1ack]

On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 00:37:17 -0000, "Oleg Smirnov" <ve...@gde.ru>

Well ... it's the "witch !" syndrome - not far from fascist
anti-semitism. When there's someone around you don't
like, are maybe a little afraid of, it's easy to rationalize
how every problem somehow traces back to your enemy.
They're always conspiring against you of course, hiding
under your bed, corrupting your children, cheating you.
After all, YOU are perfect ... so it MUST be "Them".
People DO love their scapegoats and strawmen.

Ukraine, yes, from what I've researched the name should
probably be inside quote-marks. Like many countries that
have been a crossroads for conquerors, traders and immigrants
over the millenia, "Ukraine" is anything but homogenous.
A number ethnic, sub-ethnic, nationalistic and ideological groups
with some geographic clustering. It never takes much to
create antagonism ... and if the social infrastructure is weak
hostilities can amplify out of control. When it was part of
the USSR there was powerful authority there to keep such
problems in check. Today, not so much authority, not so
uniform in its application.

I can't fault Ukraine in this respect ... the United States was
not even 100 years old before such forces caused a huge
civil war - and the 'differences' between the antagonists
were relatively few and small. As I said, it never takes much ...

And Russia ... a VERY long attachment to the area plus some
strategic interests just to important to surrender. Putin CAN'T
let eastern Ukraine slip away, especially not into EU hands.
Doesn't matter how many 'sanctions' are applied, Russia
will have to bear it ... or fight it ............

>The set of figures that have come to power in the Ukraine after
>the February coup is a mix of adventurers, slickers and nazis.
>The Western public just had not heard their names and didn't
>know their reputation before the mess. Now they are interested
>to play the 'Russian invasion' card as much as possible in order
>to obtain the Western money under this color. On the other
>hand, Kremlin can not betray Donbas, it would cause a fierce
>public outrage in Russia. The Kremlin line is to urge Kiev to
>substantive negotiations with Donbas, and here is the problem.

There's no more Truth in any reporting of events in this
situation. EU/US or Russian, it's in the hands of the
propagandists now. They will weave the self-serving
myths and tales they need, and their people WILL be
strongly inclined to accept it all.

>The very core problem is that from the very beginning the coup
>'winners' in Kiev, the top Western officials, the mass media
>in the West, have taken a false legend, presenting it as a
>popular all-Ukrainian uprising against the pro-Kremlin tyrant.
>So there cannot be any anti-coup protests from the grassroots,
>but only 'diversionists from Russia'. They rejected to recognize
>the fact that there was many people in the Ukraine that didn't
>like the coup. So if Kiev enters into negotiations, then they
>thus recognize their initial lies. But there's no other way.

I know it wasn't really a "popular uprising". I know that
the old regime wasn't pure evil and uniformly hated.
But this sort of information disappeared very quickly
under a tide of propaganda. Within a week or so all
WE got were tales of the brave rebels and sob stories
about their horrible oppressors. Thus ended Truth.

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://www.theecologist.org/blogs_and_comments/commentators/2735139/russian_aggression_and_the_bbcs_drums_of_nuclear_war.html>

The drums of war are beating on the BBC and other mass media, writes Oliver
Tickell - naked propaganda about fictitious 'Russian aggression' intended to
soften us up for a war that could wipe out life on Earth. ..

"Russian aggression"is the BBC's meme of the day. I lost count of how many
times the phrase popped up in the first 15 minutes of Radio 4's World at One
programme, devoted entirely to the 'Russian problem - but the theme was
drummed in relentlessly.

The idea is that Russia presents a huge a growing threat to world peace and
stability. Russian bombers are threatening the 'English' Channel (albeit
strictly from international airspace). Russia is an expansionist power
attacking sovereign nations, Ukraine in particular. And watch it - we're next!

Commentators wheeled into the studio were unanimous in their views. NATO must
stand up to the threat. Presient Vladimir Putin is a dangerous monster who
refuses to abide by the rules of the international order. NATO countries must
increase their defence spending to counter the Russian menace.

Not a single moderating voice was included in the discussion. No one to ask
Jens Stoltenberg, Secretary General of NATO, if alliance aircraft ever fly
close to Russia's borders (they do). No one to point out that the real
Ukrainian narrative in is not that of Russia's 'annexation' of Crimea - but of
NATO's US-led annexation of Ukraine itself.

No one to argue that Russia's assimilation of Crimea was effected with hardly
a shot being fired, backed by overwhelming support in a referendum which
reflected the popular will - and if you're in any doubt, just compare it to
Israel's ongoing and endlessly justified annexation of Palestine.

The lies are in what the media don't tell us

There was no one to discuss NATO's plan to expand right up to Russia's
boundary with Ukraine, string its missile launchers along the frontier, and to
seize the Sebastopol naval base, home to Russia's Black Sea fleet, and hand it
over to the US Navy. Aside: how would the US react if Russia tried that trick
in Mexico and Guantanamo, Cuba?

While BBC news is prepared to speak of the million or so refugees from
fighting in the Eastern provinces, there is no mention that those refugees
have overwhelmingly fled to safety in Russia - a peculiar choice of
destination if Russia is indeed the aggressor in the conflict.

Nor is there any mention that the massive humanitarian crisis in Eastern
Ukraine that forced the refugees from their homes is overwhelmingly caused by
the NATO / Kiev campaign of shelling and rocketing civilian areas of Donetsk
and other cities. Or that local rebels' fierce and ultimately victorious
battle for the airport terminal was necessitated by its use as a base for
Kiev's heavy artillery to massacre the ordinary citizens of Donetsk.

Just as there was never any hint from the BBC that the Malaysian MH17 civilian
aircraft downed over Eastern Ukraine could possibly have been shot down by any
agency other than Russia's. And now, as indications emerge that MH17 may in
fact have been shot down by Ukrainian SU25s, the story has vanished from the
news altogether.

And of course the BBC would never reveal, in other than the most guarded
terms, that the real threat to world peace and stability is not Russia, which
has more than enough resources - and problems to occupy itself with - within
its own boundaries, but ... NATO itself, and the wider Atlantic Alliance.

The other big threat the BBC endlessly warns of is that of Islamic extremism.
But does it ever point out that, until recently, three independent secular
regimes stood as firm bulwarks against Islamic extremism: Iraq, Libya and
Syria? And if we go back a little further, why not add in Afghanistan, where
the US created Al Qaida to overthrow a moderate Islamist regime?

And does the BBC ever point out that it is the deliberate destruction of these
secular or moderate regimes by NATO and its allies that created the void that
has been filled by Islamic State? And has lead to the growth of Islamic
fundamentalism in north and west Africa, including the murderous Boko Haram?

Or does it ever let slip that 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were in fact
citizens of Saudi Arabia, our great ally in the Middle East, and that this
made NATO's choice of Afghanistan as the country to go to war against a little
... paradoxical?

It's deju-vu all over again ...

Anyway - the BBC's dismal performance today on "Russian aggression" stirred up
memories - memories of the run up to the Iraq war, when the BBC was similarly
gung-ho in its depictions of Saddam Hussein as a real and present danger to us
all, whose ambitions had to be countered by military force. ..

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://nationalinterest.org/feature/ukraine-exposed-kievs-authoritarianism-12151>

Ukraine Exposed: Kiev's Authoritarianism

Can the West continue to ignore the Kiev government's disturbing behavior?

From the very start of the Ukraine crisis, Washington’s neoconservative lobby
has sought to downplay the less appealing aspects of the government that came
to power in Kiev in February. In May, a conventicle of Western intellectuals
took place in Kiev under the auspices of the New Republic. They attended a
five-day conference called “Ukraine: Thinking Together.” There Leon
Wieseltier, then literary editor of TNR, channeled his inner Miniver Cheevy to
state that one motive for convening the conference was his “somewhat facile
but nonetheless sincere regret at having been born too late to participate in
the struggle of Western intellectuals...against the Stalinist assault on
democracy in Europe.”

One of the conference’s co-organizers, Yale historian Timothy Snyder,
declaredthat “Ukraine is the European present. We have now reached a point
where Ukrainian history and European history are very much the same thing, for
good or for evil.”

But examples of the new authoritarianism gripping Kiev have become tougher to
miss in recent months, so much so that there are signs that perhaps even the
Washington establishment is begin to feel some discomfiture at the actions of
its new Ukrainian clients. In September, Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty
reported that the Ukrainian Defense Ministry was creating a “Special Service”
to, among other things, “get rid of the Russian 5th column in the Ukrainian
armed forces.” The Ukrainian defense minister, Valeriy Heletry, said the new
service would be based on the Stalin-era SMERSH; it would “expose and dispose
of enemy agents.” By some estimates, SMERSH, the Russian-language acronym for
“Special Methods of Detecting Spies” sent upwards of 600,000 former Soviet
POWs to the Gulag after the war.

In October, Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko signed a decree establishing
October 14 as an official “Day of Ukrainian Defenders” to commemorate the
anniversary of the founding of the wartime UPA, the Ukrains’ka Povstans’ka
Armiia or Ukrainian Insurrectionist Army. As the historian Halik Kochanski has
noted, the UPA worked hand in hand with Poland’s Nazi occupiers, killing, to
take but one example, nearly 10,000 Poles over the night of July 11-12, 1943.
“A feature of the UPA action,” according to Kochanski, “was its sheer
barbarity. They were not content merely to shot their victims but often
tortured them first or desecrated their bodies afterwards.” All of this is
well known, yet Poroshenko still took to Twitter to declare: “UPA soldiers—an
example of heroism and patriotism to Ukraine.”

In January, according to Agence France Presse, thousands of Ukrainian
nationalists took part in a torchlight procession marking the 106th birthday
of Ukrainian nationalist Stepan Bandera. According to AFP, some of the
marchers“wore second world war-era army uniforms while others draped
themselves in the red and black nationalist flags and chanted ‘Ukraine belongs
to Ukrainians!’” Anyone under the impression that torchlight processions
through the streets of European capitals are a thing of the past would be
sorely mistaken.

This spectacle was followed in short order by Ukrainian prime minister
Arseniy Yatsenyuk’s assertion—made, almost unbelievably, on German airwaves
on January 7 that “All of us still clearly remember the Soviet invasion of
Ukraine and Germany. That has to be avoided. And nobody has the right to
rewrite the results of the Second World War.” Don’t let anyone tell you Russia
has a monopoly on “disinformation.”

Even before the torchlight march on January 1, however, there were signs some
establishment figures were becoming alive to the danger these far-right
nationalists pose to Ukraine, and perhaps to European security. On December
30, in the Washington Post, former Freedom House President and current
Atlantic Council Sr. Fellow Adrian Karatnycky warned that several of the
far-right battalions, like the Azov and Dnepr-1, who had seen action in
eastern Ukraine are “revealing a dark side. In recent months, they have
threatened and kidnapped government officials” and “boasted that they will
take power if Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko fails to defeat Russia.”

These, according to Karatnycky, are no mere idle threats because Ukraine’s
interior minister, Arsen Avakov, has only encouraged these elements, noting
that “...in September he even named a leader of the neo-Nazi Azov brigade to
head the police in the Kiev region.” He urges the West to take notice and
Ukrainian leaders like Yatsenyuk not to “sweep this emerging threat under the
rug.”

Let’s hope there is a limit to what the US will countenance and that the
glorification and/or imitation of Nazi collaborators is it.
James Carden is a Contributing Editor for The National Interest.

...

This yet one in a white tuxedo has forgotten to mention that Kiev has banned
all news / tvs from Russia in the Ukraine and also recently created Ministry
of Truth which official task includes "protection of the Ukrainian space from
external information influence" (this caused protests even in pro-Kiev media
community, but they were ignored).

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/26906/2/>
"The United States took an active part in the February 2014 coup in Ukraine,
which installed pro-Western authorities, US President Obama told CNN Sunday."

- Did you get rid of the diarrhea?

- No, but now I am proud of it.

[Oleg Smirnov]

> <http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/26906/2/>
> "The United States took an active part in the February 2014 coup in Ukraine,
> which installed pro-Western authorities, US President Obama told CNN
> Sunday."

By recognising this fact Obama has admited what many said before - the fact
that the US has violated international law - the Budapest Memorandum and the
Helsinki Final Act to to which the Memorandum refers.

Recognition / suppoort of an anti-constitutional coup in a country is a
blatant violation of sovereignty of the country, no pathetic babbling about
democracy and values [.. a dirty curse here ..] can justify that.

[Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.]

Oleg Smirnov wrote:

> <http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/26906/2/>
> "The United States took an active part in the February 2014 coup in
> Ukraine, which installed pro-Western authorities, US President Obama
> told CNN Sunday."

I can't access that link...could you please post a better source.

I believe Obama is smart enough not to openly admit culpability.
;-)

[Oleg Smirnov]

Russian outlet has interviewed French volunteers fighting in Donbas.

<http://lenta.ru/articles/2015/02/02/france/>

.. We are following with great concern for what is happening in Ukraine and
Novorossia. This is a key area of Europe which addresses important strategic
issues of the future of Europe and the world. All of us served in the French
army as mountain shooters, and we believe that we have done enough for our
country, a lot more than an average Frenchman. ..
.. Basically, the purpose of the US and Western forces of NATO - to create a
unipolar world under US's control. We are against this and decided to make
our own small contribution to this confrontation, decided to take the side of
the East and show the world that there is an alternative to US domination. ..

.. The confrontation of left vs. right camps has actually become irrelevant
after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Now, in my opinion, there is no
significant difference between left and right. The watershed runs along
another line: liberals against traditionalists. .. European values ​​in many
Western countries have disappeared. And we would like to keep them. ..

.. In France, the government supports new Ukraine while the patriotic public
supports our struggle. By the way, 12 more are going to join us, - the
Foreign Legion soldiers, paratroopers, marines. They're going to leave the
army and join us, because they like us are not willing to fight for American
interests, and want to fight for freedom. ..

.. France almost turned to Africa, the radical Muslims run the show and want
to impose extremist version of their faith on our society. .. But it's not
just about Islam. They want to impose on us the criminal mindset of American
gangs. Small youth gangs engaged in looting, setting cars to fire. I was
here, at the stations, the airports etc, I see life in Russia is much safer.

...

[george152]

The daily propaganda post

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/01/30/bloodshed-and-humanitarian-crisis-eastern-ukraine-fighting-continues>

Published on Friday, January 30, 2015 by Common Dreams

Bloodshed and Humanitarian Crisis in Eastern Ukraine As Fighting Continues

'There are many terrible things about this conflict, but one of the hardest
things is that people feel abandoned.'
by Sarah Lazare, staff writer

Numerous civilians are reported dead and wounded Friday from heavy fighting in
eastern Ukraine, as aid workers warn that the situation is growing
increasingly dire for non-combatants—especially children—following the
disintegration of a ceasefire between Ukraine and opponents of Kiev earlier
this month. In one incident on Friday, a bomb hit a cultural center in
Donetsk, killing five people waiting in line for humanitarian aid, The
Independent reports. Another shelling struck a bus shelter in the same city,
killing two more people.

According to The Independent, "The self-titled Donetsk People’s Republic,
which has administered the city since April, blamed the government for killing
civilians with indiscriminate shelling, while Kiev officials accused the
separatists of firing on their own stronghold to ruin the chance of peace
talks."

However, the U.S.-backed Kiev government, and pro-government militias, were
linked to previous indiscriminate bombings against heavily populated areas in
and near Donetsk, killing civilians, as documented by Human Rights Watch.

In an article published earlier this week, Emilie Rouvroy, Médecins sans
Frontières (MSF) coordinator for Luhansk, in eastern Ukraine, described
growing trauma and desperation as homes and medical institutions are destroyed
in shelling and medical supplies run low.
"There are many terrible things about this conflict, but one of the hardest
things is that people feel abandoned," Rouvroy wrote. "They’re grateful that
we’re here, but wherever we go they ask us: 'Where is everybody? Where are
the journalists? Where is the international community?' People are dying here
every day."

Furthermore, UNICEF warns that "continuous fighting is having a devastating
impact on the lives of children." As of early December, 42 children have died
in the conflict, and the number of displaced people has surpassed half a
million, over 130,000 of them children.
According to the global body, 5.2 million people are affected by ongoing
violence, including 1.7 million children, and 1.4 people are in immediate need
of aid.

...

".. accused the separatists of firing on their own stronghold .."

He has committed a suicide by three shots into his head.

<http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/138906>

Kiev 3 February 2015 ..

.. The SMM saw considerable damage caused by the impacts of rocket shelling,
such as broken windows, fences, gates and walls. The SMM assessed that some of
the damage to the buildings, e.g. a series of parallel rows of strike marks on
a gate and wall, were consistent with damage typically caused by shrapnel
elements from cluster munition. ..

[jonathan]

On 2/3/2015 6:17 PM, Oleg Smirnov wrote:

>
> ".. accused the separatists of firing on their own stronghold .."
>
> He has committed a suicide by three shots into his head.
>
> <http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/138906>
>

Oh and how is the rebel 'defensive' going?

You know, where the rebels are defending themselves
by attacking on all three fronts at the same time?

I saw at least 3 videos of rebel grads being fired
from clearly residential areas in Donetsk.
What do they expect?

Militants fired from MLRS "Grad", set a few
hundred meters from residential buildings
(O:14)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw-6UZfe8KY

Don't forget the Grad volley the rebels
launched into downtown Mariupol. You know, the
one the UN is calling a war crime?

Dashcam of Mariupol Grad attack
(0:23)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY4lbZEXX7E

Wide angle video of Grad attack on Mariupol
(1:05)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIWEJH3pjvA


And the rebels are flattening the cities of
Debaltseve and Luhansk as we type.

Look for yourself, from the countryside
INTO THE CITY. The rebels love their Grads!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqL4mEC_UBc

Your crocodile tears are duly noted. It's like
listening to Hitler bitterly complain how those
damn Russians are destroying all of Stalingrad.

Or it's like listening to bin Laden complain how
the World Trade Center damaged his airplanes.



s

[Oleg Smirnov]

jonathan, <news:ipmdnX7KgqDf6EzJ...@giganews.com>

The 'rebels' didn't come to attack Kiev,
they were at home, and Kiev came to attack
them.

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://www.opednews.com/articles/A-Letter-From-Kiev-One-Ye-by-George-Eliason-Crime_Fascism_Fascism_Horror-150203-912.html>

OpEdNews Op Eds 2/3/2015 at 10:39:59
A Letter From Kiev - One Year After Maidan
By George Eliason

Writing this today I am coming from a funeral that was an indirect result of
Maidan. An 84 year old woman, my neighbor, committed suicide a few days ago.
She hasn't received her pension in 7 months. She was taken care of, but that
wasn't the point. She lived through the horror of Bandera as a young girl and
now in her old age the OUNb banderivets took away the last vestige of her
dignity, which was her meager pension. In reality it wasn't more than $100 per
month.

Its been almost a year since I was sent this letter written by a young woman
in Kiev at the end of the Euro-Maidan. At the time the thought in and out of
the press was that a democratic uprising in Ukraine had occurred. The real
ramifications of an OUNb nationalist coup in Kiev was barely on the radar for
most publications or journalists. Even today when people talk about nazis in
Kiev, the conversation rarely gets past the neo-nazis.
The neo-nazis are just too easy to find and discredit as taking part in the
sitting government. Come on! Who the hell would vote for them??!! Instead they
are normalized and appointed by party leaders.

It's this convenience journalists look to instead of searching for
ideologists, thinkers, or leaders. Its the comfort editors and readers find in
being able to point to something alien looking instead of someone that could
sit in the next church pew over from them.
Look closely at the photo below <http://is.gd/CeFzB2> and see if you can pick
out the most dangerous monster there. Which person is capable of the most
horrific savagery? Is it Poroshenko? If you guessed Poroshenko, you're
absolutely wrong. That kindly looking elderly woman holding Poroshenko's hand
is a mass murderer responsible for the torture and death of 500,000 people in
WW2. She is the only World War II Nazi leader to ever hold a national office
after the war. She is the Slava of Maidan.

Who would hold hands with the last living prolific genocidist and torturer
left alive after WWII? Poroshenko was chosen by her to be the first leader of
Nationalist Ukraine. Her husband Yaroslav Stetsko demanded that there was two
revolutions. The first was to change government and laws to set up the
structures necessary to legalize and support the radical revolution to follow.

The second was a radical social revolution to change the fabric of society
through propaganda and creation of a common threat and enemy normal people
would fight against. The first revolution was the Orange Revolution, the
second was Maidan. Very few people were needed to accomplish it this way. The
structures to support it were already be in place.

The photo was taken for Victor Yushchenko's "Our Ukraine" party. Slava
Stetsko's employee Catherine Chumachenko headed Stetsko's ABN office in the
White House during the Reagan years. Chumachenko married another Stetsko
employee Victor Yushchenko, who worked there for a while before returning to
Ukraine. Chumachenko became first lady of Ukraine. Along with Yulia Tymoshenko
they started the Orange Revolution.

The slave tattooed, overly effeminate, sadistic, heterosexual young men that
posture and pose as the new brown shirts and ultra leaders have as little to
do with the sitting government as any other private in a nationalist army.
They are the waste product that gets swept aside when they become
inconvenient.

In one year the so-called democratic revolution that was supposed bring
European values to Ukraine destroyed free speech (no free press). They
destroyed the educational system. Instead of an 11 year primary education,
Ukrainians children can look forward to 9 years of school.

Maidan destroyed democracy in Ukraine. After Maidan if you don't agree with
nationalist Ukraine you are a Moskal. Ukrainian nationalism is variegated
based on two models of ideology. OUNm has a Congress taking preeminence which
makes it illegal to vote against party leaders. OUNb has the president with
unlimited power and is what modern Ukraine is moving toward. All political
parties that oppose ideological nationalism are illegal.

This letter was considered unpublishable only a short year ago. No one wanted
to take a chance that there might possibly be a problem and hint that the days
of the long knives was again beginning.

When you read this consider it against a single day entry from the Diary of
Anne Frank. Hope and hopelessness, the daily struggle for safety and normalcy
pervade. Just before this happened all of Ukraine was a relatively safe place
and from east to west considered each other family. Three months into it
people did not understand the legacy of Bandera or what the new generation of
nationalists wanted.

This letter was written right after the Ukrainian Coup happened. The bandera
parades were going through Kiev screaming "Moskal on the knives!" Instead of
toning it down, Kiev helped ratchet it up.

A Simple Letter from a Girl

"Unfortunately, I had to close all posts in my VK(VKontakte) about Maidan
(they aren't erased, but now are visible only to me) because after the Maidan
"victory" in Kiev the real nightmare began. About that, people prefer not to
speak because they are very much afraid. There are militants everywhere.
My co-worker was beat in front of the entrance to her apartment for writing
anti-maidan posts in her VK page. How did they find her? No one knows. She is
intensive care and at the first mention of that event, you can't appease her
tears.
At school the other day, my neighbor's boy called his parents on a break by
the mobile phone and spoke with them in Russian. His schoolmates took away his
phone and broke it. They broke his bag, tore all his textbooks and note-books,
and then beat the child. They demanded he speak only Ukrainian or "for the
rest of his life be afraid because they will find and will cripple him". This
is the 7th grade class.
From time to time on the streets it is possible to see this picture; As a
person is approaching a group of people, the group asks questions: "Were you
on Maidan? Do you support Maidan? " If both answers are "no" the group cruelly
beats them and kicks them.

In Kiev now the majority of Russians and Russian-speaking people, initially
and after Maida that did not support Maidan are compelled to remember the
Soviet period when "even walls have ears" and to keep mum. Because we, unlike
different regions have no chance of detaching from Ukraine.
In Kiev now, as many as speak in whispers at personal meetings are doomed.
Here its already a totalitarian mode and probably will only get worse.
Everything is getting aggravated with that. For some reason a lot Russians,
and Russian-speaking people were at Maidan and in every possible way helped
Maidan's people.

Kiev is completely split. Here associating with Russians is impossible. They
are now enemies in addition to Yanukovych. Its awful that this war (the gun
battles that ended Maidan) is here. Such cruelty beating on absolutely
peaceful people. Their only crime is that they dared to be against vandals and
cheap swindlers of people.

Please, don't mention my nickname in context with this information. If people
find and cripple people already for posts in VK, that truth very much
frightens us, "especially women and mothers".

I asked for permission to publish the letter without mention of authorship and
received the answer:
"If you publish, state objectively that externally Kiev leads a quiet, quiet
life". But it is only a matter of visibility. Those who are joyful and
complacent are for Maidan. Now it is their time.

All others are guarded and careful even with people they think they know.
Russian and Russian-speaking people that haven't faced an atrocity as
opponents of the Maidan simply try to be silent in public places. They try to
not attract the aggression of madmen.

And those who already suffered from them or at least as much as I know about
real cases, try hard to save their families and to be silent, silent, silent.
Therefore the "picture" of Kiev is quite safe, spring comes, and so on.
Actually part (and not a small part!) of the city is in silent horror.

You c annot leave everything: Your work, your house, the proof you had a life-
you can't throw it all away.

People hang on by the skin of their teeth. After all that has happened, they
hope for any miracle. Though it is difficult even to assume now that anything
can save the Russians in Kiev.

It is impossible to be silent. But the inhabitants of Kiev, which are
Antimaidan, and faced atrocity won't write about it openly. Its the
self-preservation instinct.

Those who aren't aware yet are in a kind of dark hope that somehow everything
will be fine. I try to be very careful. Only here I decided to write this to
you for some reason. Probably, because of trust and you are after all very far
away..."

Response from another person in Kiev during Maidan

"I read "The letter from Kiev". Everything is true... The author correctly
wrote you can't drop everything and leave in one day. You won't get a new
house and a new job in one day. It is necessary to simply hide. This is an
absolutely awful feeling.

It is necessary not only to remember that the walls have ears, but you have to
remind yourself to look like you are in a good mood. Rejoice that the spring
sun is shining for example. After Maidan it is unhealthy to do otherwise.
People are watching and looking for those that did not support Maidan. Laws no
longer work here. The people are absolutely defenseless and left to the mercy
of fate.
This was a fascist revolution. The most amazing and simply unreal thing is
that people supported radicals and welcomed the created state of affairs. Here
it is full of lawlessness. Intolerance to any point of view, intolerance on a
racial, national, religious, and political convictions not in line with Maidan
is a crime.
They started closing publishing houses such as "Ejenedelnik 2000" weekly,
which never sympathized with Maidan, not in 2004 (Orange revolution), and not
now. There is the whole list of journalists, political scientists,
sociologists who became persona non grata in Ukraine's information space.

The most ridiculous organization "stop censorship" first struggled with the
dictator Yanukovych. Afterward they wanted every publisher that didn't agree
with Maidan closed. No human rights activists or even "the reporters without
borders" ever mentioned this, not one. I am feeling that is a dreadful dream
the events."

Here openly I put it. It is fascism, ordinary fascism.

...

The article is not accurate in some facts, but it quite correctly reflects the
'new spirit' of the 'new' Ukraine, this spirit is quite unhealthy, and in some
aspects close to mass psychosis.

[Oleg Smirnov]

> Look closely at the photo below <http://is.gd/CeFzB2> and see if you can
> pick out the most dangerous monster there. Which person is capable of the
> most horrific savagery? Is it Poroshenko? If you guessed Poroshenko, you're
> absolutely wrong. That kindly looking elderly woman holding Poroshenko's
> hand is a mass murderer responsible for the torture and death of 500,000
> people in WW2. She is the only World War II Nazi leader to ever hold a
> national office after the war. She is the Slava of Maidan.
>
> Who would hold hands with the last living prolific genocidist and torturer
> left alive after WWII? Poroshenko was chosen by her to be the first leader
> of Nationalist Ukraine. Her husband Yaroslav Stetsko demanded that there
> was two revolutions. The first was to change government and laws to set up
> the structures necessary to legalize and support the radical revolution to
> follow.

That elderly woman was hardly personally responsible for mass murders, but
her husband, Yaroslav Stetsko, was an infamous person, - in the 1940s he was
a deputy of Bandera, and he was one of the organizers of then mass murders.

In one of his public statements in the 1941 he spoke in mood with the Nazis:
"Moscow and the Yids are the biggest enemy of the Ukraine. I think the main
and decisive enemy is Moscow, which imperiously held the Ukraine in captivity.
However, I also note the hostile and diversionist will of the Yids that helped
Moscow to imprison Ukraine. Therefore, I stand on position for extermination
of the Yids, and I consider it expedient to use in the Ukraine the German
methods of extermination of Yids, excluding their assimilation."

The basic agenda of Hitler's policies on the occupied Soviet territories was
the classical 'divide and rule' approach: to encourage chauvinisms in various
regional ethnic groups in order to excite hatreds all to all, and especially
to the Russians and the Jews. The Russians were demonized as 'men of empire',
and the Jews were demonized in a way they are usually demonized ;] Today one
can see that the American politicians encourage chauvinisms in the countries
neighboring to Russia the very same way as Hitler did (it became especially
visible in the Ukrainian case), - the main difference is that now it's just
without the Jews. But from the Russian perspective, then Hitler and today's
America / the West are different kinds of the same shit. Hitler also declared
'liberation' and promotion or proper 'values' as an excuse for Nazi actions.
With the coup in the Ukraine, largely driven by nationalist hatreds, America
and its European lackeys have stood up close to line with Hitler.

Back to those west-Ukrainian Nazi collaborators, Hitler soon abandoned plans
to use them, being inspired by the initial success in the war, he hoped that
now Ukraine might be treated as a colony under direct German administration.
The Nazis recollected about them again only in the 1944, when the military
situation has changed significantly. Then, after the WW2, many of those west-
Ukrainian collaborators received shelter by the Americans, and were recruited
for anti-Soviet diversionist activities during the Cold War. Yaroslav Stetsko,
despite his obvious participation in the Nazi's deeds, became the head of the
"Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations", and later participated in organizations of
such sort. He met personally with top American officials, including George H.
W. Bush etc. Here you may read some more <http://tinyurl.com/lbnf59e>.

...

[jack595]

In article <mat0gh$8l4$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...

The Soviet Union's treatment of Jews wasn't exactly stellar.

[Oleg Smirnov]

> <http://tinyurl.com/pxayt3u>
>
> "Crimean residents are almost universally positive
> toward Russia. At least nine-in-ten have confidence
> in Putin (93%) and say Russia is playing a positive
> role in Crimea (92%). .. Overwhelming majorities
> say the March 16th referendum was free and fair
> (91%) and that the government in Kyiv ought to
> recognize the results of the vote (88%)."
>
> Not only Pew Global confirmed that the results of
> Crimean referendum adequately reflect people moods.
> German GFK Group, the 'Germany's largest market
> research institute, and the fourth largest market
> research organization in the world' polled people
> in Crimea just before the March voting, and result
> of their survey was similar (read in Wikipedia).

GFK Group has made new survey of public opinion in Crimea.

"The research conducted by GfK Ukraine commissioned by Berta
Communications with support of Canada Fund for Local Initiatives
for the Free Crimea project" (whatever it supposed to mean).

<http://www.gfk.com/ua/documents/presentations/gfk_report_freecrimea.pdf>

82% fully approve the reunion with Russia
11% rather approve than disapprove
2% rather disapprove
2% fully disapprove
3% it's difficult to say

Among those 4% who 'disapprove' only 20% (i.e. less than 1% from
the whole group) said that they loved life within the Ukraine more
than within Russia now, others said that it has created problems
of transition, or it should had been implemented in more accurate
way, or that Crimea should be an independent state.

People in Crimea watch both mainstream Russian and Ukrainian TV
channels, as well as local TVs, and use internet. They consider
social networks and local news sites the most credible news source.
For the TV channels, level of trust to the Russian TV news is
three times high than to the Ukrainian ones.

Rating of what the Ukrainian news media tell about Crimean life.
45% completely lies
35% more lies than truth
4% more truth than lies
1% completely truth

[jack595]

In article <mat0gh$8l4$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...
>

You keep digging up these dead bodies as if that will breathe some life into
them. They are dead and they stink. And Russia may pretend that they didn't
start this event, but it certainly looks like it can't keep its hands off the
situation.

[Byker]

"Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message news:matog7$g9e$2...@os.motzarella.org...

>
> <http://tinyurl.com/pxayt3u>
>
> "Crimean residents are almost universally positive toward Russia.

I wonder what they think about the latest tawdry tidbit making the rounds of
Western news channels: http://tinyurl.com/m69ydjg


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

[Oleg Smirnov]

Byker, <news:BoydnSbFUfAxaU7J...@earthlink.com>

> "Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message news:matog7$g9e$2...@os.motzarella.org...
>>
>> <http://tinyurl.com/pxayt3u>
>>
>> "Crimean residents are almost universally positive
>> toward Russia.
>
> I wonder what they think about the latest tawdry tidbit
> making the rounds of Western news channels:
> http://tinyurl.com/m69ydjg

That's the voodoo doll magic.

[Oleg Smirnov]

Note: The web publication of the article contains many links to other sources.

<http://www.eurasiareview.com/05022015-ukraines-outlook-bleak-analysis/>

UKRAINE’S OUTLOOK IS BLEAK – ANALYSIS

FEBRUARY 5, 2015

After initial enthusiasm the outlook for Ukraine’s Maidan revolution is
turning increasingly bleak. In the East there is a war. Everywhere there is an
economic crisis. There are hardly any reforms. Power remains in the hands of
oligarchs and militia’s rather than parliament or government. And both the
will for peace and the will for reforms are weak.

By Wim Roffel*

Revolutionaries without a cause

When Yanukovich refused to sign the DCFTA trade agreement with the EU he was
not without support: only 43% of the population supported the treaty. The
protesters against his decision liked to point to opinion polls that showed
that a half to two thirds of the population want Ukraine to become an EU
member. However, that wasn’t offered and is unlikely to be offered in the near
future. Ukraine’s exports are evenly divided between the EU and Russia. It is
in Ukraine’s interest to maintain and expand good relations on both sides.
Being in a similar position Belarus has doubled its economy since 1990 –
growing just as fast as Poland. ..

Yanukovich .. didn’t pay much attention to details of the negotiations.
Unfortunately the EU had allowed a Russia-hating minority of its officials
(Sikorski and Bildt) (that's true, I myself noticed the destructive role of
the Polish and Swedish figures at the time <http://is.gd/yTuRP6> - OS) to take
control of the negotiations and to shape the treaty so that it would seriously
harm Russian – and with that indirectly also Ukrainian – interests. Russia
tried to get involved to correct that, but its efforts were declined by the EU
with the claim that they were a violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty. This was
rather insincere, as a treaty with the EU is to a large extent an EU dictate –
leaving the other side (Ukraine) with hardly any sovereignty.

Yanukovich’s last minute demands for financial concessions from the EU showed
major diplomatic clumsiness. The bureaucratic EU is not the kind of flexible
organization that can make such concessions. Yanukovich should have tabled his
demands during the negotiations. Now he only embarrassed both himself and the
EU.

The trade agreement would immediately open the border for EU imports. Ukraine
on the other hand would first need to make its products compatible with EU
regulations and attractive for that market. So there would be a painful
transition period. Unfortunately at that time Ukraine was living beyond its
means and expected severe IMF imposed budget cuts. No economist would
recommend combining those two “cures” simultaneously. So Yanukovich’s demand
for financial support during this transition made sense. As did his choice for
Russia as partner who made the best offer.

The real goal of the protests was to get rid of Yanukovich. The DCFTA treaty
was just an excuse to get the protests started. Soon other – equally dubious –
arguments were used to keep them going. The anti-protests law that Yanukovich
introduced in January were not as outrageous as the protesters claimed: in no
Western capital would it be tolerated that protesters occupied the center of
the capital for months. Ukraine needed laws to catch up. The shooting of
protesters was regrettable, but the lack of thorough investigations by the new
government suggests that rumors about a false flag operation may be true.

The fall of Yanukovich

In the end Yanukovich contributed much to his own fall. He failed to
understand the true nature of the uprising and for that reason he failed to
suppress it in the beginning when it could still easily be done. And near the
end he agreed to conditions that were seen by the security forces as a
betrayal and that led them to abandon him. But that doesn’t take away that his
fall had many elements of a coup.

The deposition of Yanukovich went not according to the constitution: the
constitutional court was not consulted and the required 75% majority in
parliament was not achieved. The latter despite considerable pressure and
violence against parliamentarians. The problem was circumvented by claiming
that Yanukovich had “unconstitutionally” left his post. Unfortunately Ukraine
has a long tradition of unconstitutional behavior that is motivated by
claiming that others behaved unconstitutionally.

The Gallician coup

Most participants in the uprising had come from Ukraine’s Westernmost
provinces. They also controlled the new government: 60% of its ministers
(including Yatsenyuk) came from the 5 provinces (with in total 16% of the
population) that were once part of the Habsburg empire. .. When the Maidan
revolution put this region in charge of Ukraine they started a cultural
revolution: the Russian language was degraded, Nazi symbols were allowed ..
.. these issues took priority over the economy and corruption.

One of their most far-reaching acts is a lustration law with very vague
criteria. Like the de-Baathification in Iraq the purpose is not to weed out
a few bad apples but to make a segment of the population powerless. ..

The power of West Ukraine comes from its right extremist militias. Their
semi-military formations prevented the police from clearing the Maidan. They
kept playing an important role after the uprising. With threats of violence
they press politicians and others not to take any decisions they didn’t like.
They were also sent in when politicians and administrators that the new
government wanted to replace didn’t go voluntarily. After the revolution they
consolidated their power by acquiring considerable control over the police
and the army. .. their influence stays large.

A divided country

Ukraine’s Maidan revolution had only moderate popular support. Opinion polls
in December 2013 showed that a small majority rejected the uprising. A month
after the revolution an opinion poll showed that only 51.2% considered the
new government legitimate. ..
As the situation polarized many were arrested: in Kharkov alone more than
hundred. The turning point came with the Odessa massacre of 42 “pro-Russian”
protesters on May 2. .. mass arrests among the victims made it clear that
peacefully protest was no longer safe.
In name Ukraine is still democratic. But the opposition has only marginal
access to the media. Opposition candidates and representatives are regularly
threatened and beaten up. And the conflict in the East serves to paint them
as minions of the Russian enemy.

Rather soon after the revolution we saw the rise of armed resistance in the
East. .. The Maidan government reacted by sending the army for an “Anti-
Terrorist Operation” – antagonizing the local population. The willingness of
the government to cause massive destruction and human suffering in its
Eastern provinces without making any serious attempt to solve the conflict
peacefully is another symptom of the blind hatred in Western Ukraine towards
anything remotely Russian.

During the campaign for the presidential elections of 25 May Poroshenko posed
as the moderate candidate .. However, after he had been chosen he intensified
the military operations in the East. .. On 20 June Poroshenko declared an
armistice. Again his true intentions were different: .. the Ukrainian army
reinforced its positions and prepared an offensive ..

It’s the economy, stupid!

Given their weak popular support the Maidan revolutionaries needed to ally
with some oligarchs. But these oligarchs don’t want reforms that would
restrict their freedom to pilfer the country. Before the revolution Yatsenyuk
had declared that the economy needed drastic measures and that he was ready
to take them even if that would mean “political suicide”. After the revolution
he backtracked. ..

Ukraine now faces a conundrum. In support of its hardline approach to the
conflict in the East Western countries have given it credit after credit under
soft conditions. When the conflict is over that leniency will end and the
government will be forced to implement very painful reforms. The only way out
is to become the kind of thorn in Russia’s eye ..

Regime change

Western efforts to take control of Ukraine have a long history. The Orange
Revolution in 2005 was a classical color revolution with the US ambassador in
a leading role. In 2008 it was tried to make Ukraine a member of the NATO
Membership Action Plan despite opinion polls that showed great aversion
against NATO membership. The Ukrainian government was bribed with the promise
of military and financial support to act against the will of its population.
Many Western politicians came to the Maidan protests to declare their support
in violation of the principle of non-interference. Both before and after the
revolution US “advisors” played an important role. It is widely believed that
the present hard line on the uprising in the East comes from them. Ukraine
would not have been able to keep on that war going without generous loans from
the IMF and the Western countries. Disturbing was also that the IMF loan was
conditioned on winning the war.

The Ukrainian conflict has a lot in common with the Yugoslav conflict. .. In
both cases the Western countries embraced these illegal moves enthusiastically
and are even suspected of having helped to initiate them. In both cases the
West used demonization of the leaders at the other side – Milosevic and Putin
– to avoid discussing the real issues. ..

The mood in the government controlled part of Ukraine reminds me of the cargo
cultsin Melanesia at the start of the 20th century. The destruction of the
East of the country and the disastrous economy hardly get any attention.
Instead the government tries to please Washington with anti-Russian rhetoric
and military campaigns .. They will certainly be disappointed. Destroying your
own country in the hope that foreigners will reward you generously is a fool’s
errand.

Conclusion
The Ukrainian government is on the road to disaster. My advice to them is to
completely reverse course: [.. read more ..]

[Oleg Smirnov]

jack595, <news:matt...@drn.newsguy.com>

> In article <mat0gh$8l4$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov

Dead and stink, and there would be no need to talk
about them if your 'wise' politicians didn't revive this
ghost by giving green light to the Galician radical
nationalism, and after that the American politicians are
in one boat together with those the dead and stink.

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/02/06/3197>
Crimean residents were asked to delete their accounts on Amazon
before February 13. ..
In February, US Internet giant Google also restricted access of
Crimean residents to a number of services.
Online marketplace eBay also announced it wasn't able to set up
a full-scale service in Crimea.
eBay's subsidiary PayPal announced the suspension of services for
Crimean residents as well.

...

If the American official legend is, the Crimeans were conquered
by Russia, voted at gunpoint etc, then what a point does it make
to sanction mass customers? It only makes sense as a collective
punishment of the people for their will to escape from the 'new'
Ukraine. This way the US government refutes its official legend.

[jack595]

In article <mb4k51$dqe$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...

It is funny to watch your posts on this entry. You act as if some mystic voice
as given you some easy points to refute and then overkill them with really
stupid counter arguments. Why would there be a need for "mass customers" and
"collective punishment" for their being citizens of Crimea who did not have the
"will to escape fro m the 'new' Ukraine" but instead were looted by the Old
Russia.

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150207/1017927887.html>

Business magnate George Soros said Saturday that Ukraine is showing
what the European Union should be: "a participatory democracy."
"Ukraine is what the European Union ought to be — a participatory
democracy. Unfortunately it is a well-kept secret. It is a secret
because it has not yet produced any positive results," the founder
of the Open Society Foundations stated at the Munich Security
Conference. .. "There is a new Ukraine. This is a civil society that
became very much engaged in politics, it has almost the unique
exercise of participatory democracy, and the volunteer spirit that
was born on Maidan," Soros said during a panel discussion. ..

...

Just compare this smart-ass hypocrisy with the sane and competent
analysis below. ".. it has not yet produced any positive results .."
I should remind another nice example of "has not yet produced".

In the 2006, George W Bush and Putin gave a joint press conference.

<http://www.c-span.org/video/?193440-1/g8-summit-statements>.

Bush said:
"It’s not the first time that Vladimir and I discussed our governing
philosophies. I have shared with him my desires for our country, and
he shared with me his desires for his. And I talked about my desire
to promote institutional change in parts of the world like Iraq where
there’s a free press and free religion, and I told him that a lot of
people in our country would hope that Russia would do the same thing."

To which Putin replied:
"We certainly would not want to have the same kind of democracy as
they have in Iraq, I will tell you quite honestly. [Laughter]"

To which Bush replied: "Just wait."

Now 8.5 years have passed, and we see what it has produced: ISIS.

> <http://www.eurasiareview.com/05022015-ukraines-outlook-bleak-analysis/>
>
> UKRAINE’S OUTLOOK IS BLEAK – ANALYSIS
>
> FEBRUARY 5, 2015
>
> After initial enthusiasm the outlook for Ukraine’s Maidan
> revolution is turning increasingly bleak. In the East
> there is a war. Everywhere there is an economic crisis.
> There are hardly any reforms. Power remains in the hands
> of oligarchs and militia’s rather than parliament or
> government. And both the will for peace and the will for
> reforms are weak.
>
> By Wim Roffel*

> The power of West Ukraine comes from its right extremist
> militias. Their semi-military formations prevented the
> police from clearing the Maidan. They kept playing an
> important role after the uprising. With threats of
> violence they press politicians and others not to take
> any decisions they didn’t like. They were also sent in
> when politicians and administrators that the new
> government wanted to replace didn’t go voluntarily. After
> the revolution they consolidated their power by acquiring
> considerable control over the police and the army. ..
> their influence stays large.

> Ukraine’s Maidan revolution had only moderate popular
> support. Opinion polls in December 2013 showed that a
> small majority rejected the uprising. A month after the
> revolution an opinion poll showed that only 51.2%
> considered the new government legitimate. .. As the
> situation polarized many were arrested: in Kharkov
> alone more than hundred. The turning point came with the
> Odessa massacre of 42 “pro-Russian” protesters on May 2.
> .. mass arrests among the victims made it clear that
> peacefully protest was no longer safe.
>
> In name Ukraine is still democratic. But the opposition
> has only marginal access to the media. Opposition
> candidates and representatives are regularly threatened
> and beaten up. And the conflict in the East serves to
> paint them as minions of the Russian enemy.

> The mood in the government controlled part of Ukraine

> reminds me of the cargo cults in Melanesia at the start
> of the 20th century. ..

[Oleg Smirnov]

jack595, <news:mb4sn...@drn.newsguy.com>

More funny to watch your gibberish in response, Jack.

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150207/1017949471.html>

Crimea Cannot Be Blamed for Choosing to Join Russia - Sarkozy

© RIA Novosti.

Ekaterina Chesnokova EUROPE 21:54 07.02.2015 (updated 22:00 07.02.2015)

Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy noted on Saturday that France and
Russia are part of a common European civilization, and that Crimea cannot be
blamed for choosing to join Russia.
Speaking on Saturday before supporters at the congress of the Union for a
Popular Movement Party (UMP), Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy played a
conciliatory note toward Russia, noting that Crimea could not be blamed for
choosing to leave Ukraine amidst the turmoil of early 2014.

"We are part of a common civilization with Russia," Sarkozy, who serves as the
president of the UMP, noted. "The interests of the Americans with the Russians
are not the interests of Europe and Russia," he noted. The former president
added that "we do not want the revival of a Cold War between Europe and
Russia."

With regard to Crimea's referendum to leave Ukraine and join Russia in March
2014, Sarkozy noted that "Crimea has chosen Russia, and we cannot blame it
[for doing so]." He added that "we must find the means to create a
peacekeeping force to protect Russian speakers in Ukraine."
On Ukraine's hopes to join the European Union, Sarkozy noted that "Ukraine
must preserve its role as a bridge between Europe and Russia. It is not
destined to join the European Union."
On March 16, 2014, a referendum carried out in Crimea saw a vast majority of
voters choosing to join Russia.

>> <http://tinyurl.com/pxayt3u>
>>
>> "Crimean residents are almost universally positive
>> toward Russia. At least nine-in-ten have confidence
>> in Putin (93%) and say Russia is playing a positive
>> role in Crimea (92%). .. Overwhelming majorities
>> say the March 16th referendum was free and fair
>> (91%) and that the government in Kyiv ought to
>> recognize the results of the vote (88%)."

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://www.bignewsnetwork.com/index.php/sid/230074025>

Western officials repeatedly note that Yanukovych fled Kyiv after signing
an EU-brokered deal with then-Ukrainian opposition leaders that called
for a unity government and early presidential election.
Ukrainian lawmakers then voted to remove Yanukovych, who later fled to
Russia, from office on the grounds that he was unable to fulfill his
duties as president. This cleared the way for a pro-Western government to
assume power in Kyiv.

...

The officials and mass media are repeating this brazen lie again and again.

February 21 Yanukovych has signed the agreement with the opposition
leaders, guaranteed on behalf of the EU by three top diplomats, - foreign
ministers of France, Germany and Poland.

This agreement stipulated that Y. orders riot police to withdraw from the
streets while the leaders of the opposition provide disarmament of the
firearmed 'peaceful protesters' within 24 hours.

Yanukovych fulfilled his part of the agreement while the opposition didn't.
Those EU 'guarantors' might quite easily fulfill the warranty they had
have signed. They could simply say to the opposition: if you refuse to
fulfill your part of the agreement it wouldn't be nice and decent, we'll
not support you, no money etc. Instead they pretended they don't see what's
going on, that allowed the firearmed neo-Nazi militant groups ('peaceful
protesters') to storm the government buildings in Kiev in the next day.

In such a situation, Y. moved to another Ukraine city, Kharkov. About just
a three hours after his move the coup leaders initiated 'parliamentary'
activity to deprive him from power and 'appoint' an interim president under
false pretext that Y. withdrew from his presidential duties. Given that, at
the time, the government / parliament buildings in Kiev were under full
control of the armed militia, and likely they just would have killed
Yanukovych if he appeared there. With that, already February 23 / 24, the
Western (EU, US) top officials had have made it clear that they approve the
lawlessness in Kiev. Immediately the self-appointed 'interim government'
declared Y. a criminal and began to hunt him, so a few days after that he
had to exit the country.

The lousy 'guarantors' might stop the lawlessness and insanity twice, but
they didn't. If they did, there might be a normal legal political process,
and the people of the Ukraine might achieve national consensus in a decent,
peaceful and democratic way. But instead the Western powers approved the
illegitimate extremists as a self-proclaimed 'government'.

Today they claim that Yanukovych has lost power legitimately, just because
he 'fled' - while the opposition leaders were waiting for him in vain to
establish a unity government, what a nice tale.

The Ukrainian lawmakers 'voted' to remove Yanukovych under rude violent
pressure. Several MPs were demonstratively beaten to intimidate others, and
the armed neo-Nazi militants controlled all rooms in the parliament. Even
with that they failed to comply with the right constitutional procedure of
impeachment as prescribed in the Ukrainian constitution and laws.

There's no way to interpret all this other than a violent, unlawful coup.

[jack595]

In article <mb73n6$sam$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...

You know you are talking to yourself

[Oleg Smirnov]

<http://muscatinejournal.com/news/opinion/columns/joe-biden-s-dangerous-game/article_ebd94ed4-7477-5580-95bc-12f311c5a8a8.html>

Joe Biden's dangerous game

Thomas L. Knapp

US vice-president Joe Biden put American exceptionalism on display in a big
way this past Saturday, laying down a tough line of patter to the 2015 Munich
Security Conference. Biden called on Russian president Vladimir Putin to "get
out of Ukraine," doubling down on US threats to escalate conflict in the
Russia-Ukraine border region by arming Kiev's forces.

"Too many times, President Putin has promised peace and delivered tanks,
troops and weapons," quoth Biden, by way of promising peace and simultaneously
promising to deliver tanks, weapons and possibly US troops.
At issue are two new "ethnically Russian" states — the Donetsk and Luhansk
People's Republics — which seceded from Ukraine in the wake of last year's
US-backed coup and the installation in Kiev of a regime friendlier to the US
and the European Union and more hostile toward Russia.

Biden's newly minted opposition to ethnic secessionist movements rings hollow,
given his enthusiastic backing of such movements in the former Yugoslavia in
the 1990s. He recalls his support for Bosnian and Kosovar secessionists — up
to and including US bombing campaigns and ground troop interventions versus
Serbia which dwarf even the most inflated claims of Russian meddling in the
current conflict — as his "proudest moment in public life." Hypocrisy much,
Mr. Vice-President?
Biden, US president Barack Obama, and the more hawkish contingent in Congress
might also do well to reconsider the practicality of a counter-insurgency
campaign in the region. Given the complete failures and follow-on consequences
of the 21st century's first two such US campaigns — in Iraq and Afghanistan —
a betting man would likely put long odds on success in a third such
misadventure. Especially one which antagonizes a major military power with the
capacity to, in extremis, take things nuclear. But that same gambler would put
similarly long odds on the likelihood of such reconsideration.

It took 58,000 American deaths in Vietnam to raise even minor self-doubt among
American politicians on their post-World War II conception of themselves as
"leaders of the free world," disposing of the military might to impose their
will around the globe in, as George III put it to Britain's rebellious
colonies in 1775, "all cases whatsoever."

The fall of the Soviet Union and the sugar high of victory in the first Gulf
War dispelled that doubt. 9/11 put the War Party completely back in America's
driver's seat. And we've been cruisin' for a bruisin' ever since.
If Joe Biden and Company can't figure out a way to gracefully walk away from
the mess they've made in Ukraine and let Russia, Ukraine, the breakaway states
and the EU settle their own arguments, this conflict may very well turn out to
be that bruisin'.

Thomas L. Knapp is director and senior news analyst at the William Lloyd
Garrison Center for Libertarian Advocacy Journalism (thegarrisoncenter.org).